How Honey, Hustle, and Hard Lessons Built a $10M Brand | Jack Espy

30:10so as you as you think about spirited hive and and how you separate like how do you start to craft that message like why would i go with a spirited hive versus a surfside versus a high noon versus a lucky one that dave portnoy just came out with right like like if you're if you're sitting next to those brands like what are the things that you're actually doing as a as a d2c brand to to stand out like what is the marketing what how does the messaging work how does the placement work on the shelves? Like, is it slipping the guy a fin on the side when he's, when he's stacking the shelves or like, how does, how does all that actually work?

30:46Totally. Yeah. I mean, it was interesting because, and it's funny to think back on this, but when I first started this brand, I wanted to be the better, quote unquote, better for you canned cocktail. That's a hundred percent sweetened with organic wildflower honey. So that was our hook, you know, every single time was where the better for you can cocktail a hundred percent sweetened with honey and it's it's stuck with us ever since because like we're more of like obviously our flavors are amazing and they're unique but our big selling point is that we're utilizing a different sweetener to sweeten your product to sweeten our product that isn't synthetic doesn't leave an aftertaste and is a better for you product rather than all these other ones that you know like I just listed and when I first went into my first multiple distributor meetings even to this day I get called out for it they're like better for you how is this brand better for you like your calories aren't super low and although our calories are relatively low I mean we're 7 % ABV around 160 calories so nothing crazy because we're especially at 7 % ABV and I was like well what's your definition of better for you and he was like well like I want to see zero sugars I'm gonna see really low calories and I was like okay cool that's that's great I mean we're going from the standpoint of better for you ingredients rather than calories and it was like this for the first year and no one was really claiming better for you in that space because a lot of the people that drink alcohol don't care but there is a segment of the market that's more of a white space of people who love health and fitness just like myself and probably like you like i don't know if you drink but like for me i love health and fitness but like thursday night i'll probably have a drink tonight with my family or I have a hive tonight.

32:27I have a couple of hives over the weekend. And to me, it's all about balance and embracing the balance in your everyday life. So it took a long time for that to happen. And we've gotten a lot of press around that, which is great. I mean, some of it was kind of negative in the beginning, but now it's turned to more positive. And now you look at the space, everyone is claiming better for you. Even products that have the worst ingredients ever are claiming better for you. And it's like on every packaging across most of the ROTD category. So that was our big call out. But our main call out is that we're 100 % sweetened with honey.

33:04And from shelf placements, like where we can kind of tie people in is one, they like to see that. Two, in Tennessee for us, our big selling point is we're a Tennessee Nashville based company. So a lot of people when they go to Nashville, whether they live there, they want to drink local or if they're coming in they want to experience natural they want to go to broadway they want to do all these different things but they want to embrace that you know honky-tonk vibe and this is like one of our new merch lines we launched is raise on honky-tonk and hive is our is our big thing that we're pushing so they want to drink local and it's like always figuring out like okay what is like a cool campaign that we could do that can be at retail level like eye level that someone sees that have never seen this product before that's like I want to buy this.

33:49And one of the things that we did up in Michigan was we're in a bunch of Meyers up there, which is kind of like the major grocery store chain up there. And one thing we did was the Raise on Honky Tonkin Hive campaign, which is win a trip to Nashville. So you entice the people to come in to see that scan to enter and to win. And then, oh, I'm going to give this a try. Let's see what this tastes like. And we really pride ourselves on that our product's so good that they're going to come back for a second time, but you still have to stay in front of them because it's not so much that your product isn't good enough.

34:23It's what other campaigns are these other brands running that will take their attention off of Hive onto a new brand. So you always have to stay in front of them. And I think to your point earlier, like it's so daunting, this space is you're totally right. And I didn't know any of this. It's like always staying in front of the consumers 24 seven. And it's so hard because you can lose an account like that if you take your eye off the ball. So, and there's so many different ways to get into that, you know, from marketing to, you know, distribution, all those things. But, you know, it's like a dual product approach, distribution and marketing to be able to stay on top of that.

35:03Yeah. The placement piece to me is so interesting because there's another liquor store that I go to sometimes that's like a little more convenient, but it's very small. and all of their products that would be in your category, like they have one cooler, you know, the kind of very standard national brands like a Surfside or a High Noon are in there. And then every other brand is like stuffed in the bottom of the cooler or is warm on the side of the cooler just sitting there. And I'm like, man, if you walk in and you're just looking for a four pack and you don't want beer, but you'd want something canned, you know, maybe you just like the way you feel better the next day.

35:42if you have a vodka or tequila or whatever instead of a beer, like you're just going to take the cool four pack that's sitting inside the fridge, even if it's not, you know, exactly what you came in for. So, and again, I apologize if these are too nerdy, but I'm just interested. I'm so interested in the business because I don't know that much about it. Like you get the distribution point, right? So like the distributor I'm assuming says, Hey, I, tell me where I'm wrong in here. It says I have 20 locations, you know, this is the average volume, whatever metrics they give you. Right. So you go to that distributor and you say, hey, we're willing to do this deal.

36:17We want to be in Michigan. How then does it cost you money? Is it the quality of the product? If you start hitting a certain amount of volume, do you then not have to pay for the placement? How do you actually get that distributor to make sure that your product is like, it's like eye level, center cut is like where you want to be or something. How do you make sure that your product actually gets seen by the people when they walk in the store? So the super interesting thing about beverage alcohol industry is like what you described of like trying to pay to get on the shelf is completely illegal.

36:51You can't do that. So that goes against tight house laws. And there's so like these laws are back from prohibition. So like super archaic. This industry is super archaic. Whereas like Stripe Soda, literally I was just because that's a San Diego based brand. I was in a store and he was like, you know, I like this brand. It tastes good. But, you know, what's in it for me? what are you going to do for me? And I was like, well, you know, we want this shelf placement. If I buy out this other product, can we get it on the shelf? And he's like, yeah, there's two cans left. And I'm like, okay, cool. Let's buy those two cans and we'll put it on the shelf.

37:26And then, you know, there's always something in it on that end. And there's obviously gray area, obviously in the beverage alcohol industry. And we always try to stay away from that because, you know we really we truly leverage and we truly believe that our product is good enough to be able to withstand and go against these big guys and it is but the interesting thing is to answer your question on like how you get it on the shelf when we go into these distributor meetings and we we pitch to these distributors on general sales meetings on like we have a new product releasing in the spring. So we're getting our annual operating plan all ready to go to start pitching to all these distributors.

38:08And like the big thing is, is like we come up with these campaigns, you know, it's five o 'clock, you know, it's five o 'clock all summer long. Like we want to do a giveaway or we want to do, have a big shelf display that, you know, calls out all these different things that makes us so much better. And it's an entering to win or whatever it is That allows us to get the distributor to go out because we put an incentive behind it. So like, Ryan, you're a distributor rep. Like if you go get 10 of those displays, we'll pay you$100 for each display. So that gives you kind of like you're free to go hunt, get as many as you want.

38:47That will get us onto those campaigns. Well, one, it'll be attracted to distributors because they're like, oh, wow, this is awesome. They've got their stuff together. Two, it gets the sales rep out there into the market to go start getting that onto the shelf. And however they do that, that's up to them, you know, with their relationships that they have with these liquor stores and chains and all those kind of things. And then three, what that does for us isn't even the campaign. It's more or less getting the product in front of the consumer, having things around it kind of bells and whistles, being like, hey, you know, draw your attention to here.

39:26It's a big display versus, to your point, being on the side of the cooler sitting there. It's like, I don't know what that is. It kind of, what it does, it gives it credibility. Because it shows like, oh, wow, how did this brand get this when all these other brands are just sitting here on the side? And that's really hard to do as well because you have to stay in front of your distributor to be like, hey, we've got these campaigns going. and that's what my head of sales and my head of marketing have taught me over the years and over the past couple months is like we always have to have a campaign in place because if you don't have something in place then that shelf placement is going to go to a different campaign from a different company that's going to steal your spot so you always have to be staying in front of it because that will help with your velocities too always having a big shelf placement and the the biggest thing for us is like, if you're not cold, you're not sold.

40:19So, oh, and it's specific in this industry within, you know, beer and canned cocktails is you always have to be cold because no one wants to go in to go buy a warm four pack because usually they're buying that for later that day or you had a crack one when they get home. Yeah. Or in the car, depending on where you are located. Yeah. I thought I'm advocating for that friends. Um, so, so can you sell, and I just don't know the laws here. Could you sell an elk? Like if I wanted to go on your website, could I buy four packs and have you mail them to me? Is that, is that legal? Yeah. So it depends on the state and it's ever changing.

40:55So that's really interesting. So we, we sell in Connecticut and through Connecticut, you're allowed to ship out of Connecticut to most states. I think it's like 36 states and that literally changes day to day. Like some states get added some gets taken off so since we have distribution and we have a really good two actually really good distributors up there we can sell out of um connecticut and ship to you what state are you in new york yeah so we can send to new york we actually used to um we used to distribute it in new york um in liquor stores but it was it's such a tough market because it's very pay-to-play where it's like, again, like, look at all this shelf space.

41:39What are you going to do for me? And we just didn't really get involved in that whole pay to play because I was like, I don't want to, we're already starting business off on that foot. I don't really want to continue that. You know, it's kind of like a hostage situation. If I'm going to give in here, when, like, at what point does it, you know, does it end? So we're in a lot of states where, and then, you know, you look at like New York, which is only in liquor stores. then you look at you know tennessee which is a franchise state so it's only liquor stores and you can only have two per liquor license so like let's say ryan you owned a liquor store that gives you the right or you own a liquor license that gives you the right to have two stores so now just think about that like we have to go then manage all of those stores with my reps florida different michigan is different those are chain states so chain states we just got into Publix Liquors.

42:33So we had to make one presentation and obviously there's so much more than just one presentation, but we gave a really great presentation and we are there to help our distributors sell through at Publix to be able to hear their velocities help them. But we got 370 stores from one pitch and those get managed by our distributors. Same thing up in Michigan. So each state is very different. And then you have states that are like class C states or class B States, which is where I'm at right now, South Carolina and Texas, where, you know, on-premise accounts, so like bars and restaurants have to buy through the liquor store, not through a distributor.

43:11So it all kind of boils down to this idea that, you know, the United States is the United States, but at the end of the day, each state is pretty much its own country, not only from beverage alcohol laws, but like gun laws, everything has its own laws. And that's what I've learned a lot of is like, you know, so I never thought in a million years, I would know like, oh, class B state. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, franchise states. Oh yeah. And then like control states, which is the, the state actually buys the alcohol. So that's like New Hampshire. That's like North Carolina. Those are the places with package stores, right?

43:47Don't they call most of the states call them package stores still? Exactly. Yeah. So how are you, are you, so because you can sell direct and you're also trying to constantly bring people back to buy more are you doing like uh direct and i'm going to use the word community but like community in the virtual sense are you pulling people into a newsletter your social feeds like are you doing online like is there are you doing anything uh from like a digital or content marketing standpoint where you're drawing someone maybe buys a couple four racks in michigan and sees on the packaging they can get on some news like are you do you have campaigns to draw them in to then you can stay in front of them digitally as well so lifestyle marketing with hive is definitely a lot harder than it is for strive because strive you know for us direct to consumer is huge like we're about to get amazon up and running we're about to get walmart up and running because this brand is a lot newer we just launched like three months ago so yeah we're starting to grow our direct to consumer not only through our website um but also through amazon also through walmart and then you We're still going after retail in San Diego because it's a San Diego-based brand.

44:58And we're trying to just take that same approach, like grow small but still go after chains. We're not so much constricted by state laws, really, because we're free to hunt really wherever. But we still don't want to go too big too quickly. So with that brand, we're trying to build this community not only through email, SMS, but we're trying to build this community around the product. So trying to do a lot of events, trying to, you know, get people trying and really get it out there, which is a breath of fresh air because I could go do a little pop-up tent on the side of the street here in Charleston and sample my product.

45:35If I did that with Hive, I'd be arrested immediately. Like you can't do that. So there's things with this space that's much easier but also harder, you know. And that's a lot that I'm learning most recently is that it's not apples to apples. It's apples to oranges. The beverage alcohol industry has much more constraints, but at the end of the day is very supplier focused to a certain extent, whereas the non-alc industry is much more like Wild West. But there's just a lot of complexities in it too that I'm slowly starting to learn as I go. Like, do I work with Kehi and Unify? Do I go DSD, like distributors?

46:23Like, how do I do that? And we're slow and I'm getting all this knowledge as I go. And I'm still making, you know, I'm still learning those lessons and making those failures as I go because it's new. You know, it's something that's different than the beverage alcohol industry, which is super exciting. So I'm very happy that I'm learning these as I go because we're still so small. Like, we haven't even really got our feet underneath us yet on the strive side. but trying to take as many lessons I've learned in Hive to bring that over to Stride so I don't make those mistakes again on this brand. Have you done anything with influencer marketing?

47:01It seems like with D2C brands in general, influencer marketing can play a huge role. The right person puts your can down in the shot in a podcast or whatever, or a set or on their Instagram or whatever, and now you can see massive lifts. So have you dipped your toes into that space, and how does that work for you? So with Strive, yes. So we're getting into that right now. We haven't done anything recently because I guess there's a couple of different things, a couple of different reasons why. We launched middle to end of August, so we've been in market September, October for two months. Initially when we launched, we weren't fully, realistically weren't fully sure how we were marketing the product because it's a new industry you know we didn't know if we wanted to go full in on soda if we want to go hydration if we want to do a balance and now we've realized that you know we are soda like that's what how people drink our product and you know hydration and honey are just additional benefits that come with having a great tasting soda so now since we know that then we've been able to really fully update our website to really portray that, you know?

48:16And now we're ready to bring people on because we didn't want to bring people on too early to where, you know, they could be messaging something that we didn't want them to message and that we weren't even sure about. So now we have this kind of really good brand book that we're like, okay, like awesome. Like this is how people are drinking our product. This is how they like love to have it in their everyday life. Now let's have our influencers come on and start portraying that message. Use that UGC, whitelisting, all that stuff. Get it out there. So that's something that we're going to start doing in the next couple months.

48:49On the Hive side, we had a kick-ass influencer program that I ran for a little while, brought someone in to run it. And it was doing really, really well for a while. The thing that we didn't really realize is people don't really buy ready-to-drink cocktails online. it's something that it's just like in it was just kind of we didn't know until we actually tried it and it was really fun building that program we had some amazing influencers on there who really loved the product and just really believed in it and believed in our mission and this whole idea of like who's your hive who's your community who the people that you love to be around is your hive and it could be your close friends your new friends your old friends work friends really whatever bringing this sense of community together and creating that hive.

49:35And that's what we really try to portray online through social, et cetera. And we did an amazing job doing it. But at the end of the day, we're in the business of making money. And from a direct-to-consumer perspective, it just wasn't coming through. We were still doing great month over month from our sales perspective. But how much we were paying all these influencers versus how much we were making from this play from direct-to-consumer wasn't working. And the problem with that is, too, is, and to your point, you know, with most of all these other industries, whatever marketing tactic you use, you pretty much have something that you can look at from a statistics standpoint and be like, okay, we launched this marketing campaign and we received, you know,$100 ,000 in revenue from that marketing campaign.

50:21it's not as easy within consumer product goods because we don't know like let's say you're one of our influencers ryan and we saw that you made you know on one post you brought in two grand worth of revenue from direct consumer but we have no idea of your followers who went out and bought that at retail level so it's so hard to really judge that um because you can look at it two ways Like, is the idea for this campaign for influencers on the Hive side, is it all about revenue and that's it? Or is it getting the product out there, getting people seeing it? Because for a while, we were really going after like health and wellness influencers, which again was kind of seen as like, why are you doing that?

51:07But within that space, everyone knew Hive, which was amazing. Like everyone knew it. And we do anticipate bringing that back at some point in time, but our main focus right now is getting our ambassador side of Strive and Hive up and running and then getting our UGC and whitelisting up and running for Strive to really test that out. Because again, Strive Soda is so much more of a direct-to-consumer product than Hive is. So we're going to hopefully see a much bigger uptick in revenue from launching that program than we would with Hive. So do you see your, and I'm assuming there's like a parent business that sits over these two brands.

51:47Do you see yourself as like a, I'm going to take beverage as a whole, not just alcohol or non, but like this beverage space as a whole. Do you see this as you got like a bet? You're like a beverage brand incubator. Like this is something every couple of years you'll bring a new product out or, or do you think, you know, between strive and hive, you have enough to do that. It'll be more flavors. and more variations inside of that? Or like now that you kind of have this roadmap, I guess, do you become almost like an incubator to be bringing new products out to market because you have now a template for doing it in a way that is successful and also is packaged up properly and et cetera?

52:29Like, do you see that as a potential path for you? That would be a dream. I mean, honestly, like Honey Holdings owns both brands, which is a fun name. but yeah yeah that is a fun name i would absolutely love to continue building brands my bandwidth won't allow that i mean i'm already kind of tapped out as it is juggling both of these brands i think once it gets like hive is you know either acquired or is at a point where you know there's a new ceo running it or whatever it is at some point like my whole idea is to keep innovating and building brands. I think the reason I would have never built Strive if I didn't see that gap in the market where I was like, this is what I really like.

53:15You know, I really want to create a better for you product. Is it a soda? Is it a hydration beverage? That's only sweet with honey. Cause no one's done that. And I was like, ah, I was like, do I do it? Do I not? And I was like, screw it. You know, there's no time like the present. If I'm in over my head, I'm in over my head. But to do that a third time, I just wouldn't be able to do that. I think one thing to your point, which we're already innovating, like I've got a innovation call next week with my team on what are the new products we're releasing. Like I said, we have a really exciting product that we're actually releasing with Hive in the spring, which I'm super pumped about, which is very new.

53:52Do you know when this episode will be released? A couple of weeks. A couple weeks. I'll just, I mean, it's not really a secret. We're coming out with a tea. So all of our products are 7 % ABV. So we have three core products, which is our take on a Mexican mule. So it's a ginger and lime infused honey. We have our take on a Cosmo, which is our best seller. The girls are absolutely obsessed with that one. So that's a cranberry and lime infused for our vodka. My favorite, which is our take on a Tom Collins. So that's a lemon and juniper berry infused honey for our gin. And all those are 7 % ABV. again only sweet with honey but we're releasing a new version which is a little bit different it's going to be 4.5 percent and again that's because of all these beverage alcohol laws some states don't allow you to sell so like florida for example if you're 5.9 and under you can sell in grocery so since we're at seven we can only sell in liquor stores so now we're going to be free to hunt at grocery stores and convenience stores etc in florida so this is a 4.5 It's a spiked tea with a vodka base sweetened with honey and a little bit of lemon.

54:59And that, I don't know if you golf, Ryan, but perfect golf drink. I was going to say, it sounds like an amazing golf cocktail. It's like, and the whole plan that we're doing behind it is the Honey Hills Country Club. So we're doing all this merch that's going to be releasing around spring, early spring and throughout the summer. But it's promoting, you know, like a perfect summer beverage. So super excited to release that. And then we've got some new innovation on the Strive side. We're going to be releasing two new flavors next spring, spring, summer. So that's super exciting. And then there's ideas underneath Strive that may be not liquid form, which will be really cool.

55:39So we're working on some very exciting stuff on both brands. That's awesome. Now, one last question for you. You know, you've kind of taken the lead on, as you've mentioned a couple of times, better for you. and ultimately, I think even probably the bigger differentiator versus that language is the honey, you know, sweetening with 100 % honey. Have you seen and or how do you handle mimicry, right? I mean, I'm assuming someone has seen, hey, these guys are seemingly differentiating and doing pretty well with this honey only sweetening. Have you seen people start coming out to the market with similar, you know, a similar formula, a similar branding or trying to be the honey sweetener play as well or do you guys still kind of own that space and when people do start mimicking you how do you keep yourself separated i mean you know it's a form of flattery you know always if someone's trying to mimic you and you're doing something right which is awesome and yes we've had a couple of brands in the past and present that have you know taken our same play from a sweetener form but also to like I always look at it as like you know the more the merrier because then that's only educating more people opening up that space to be bigger within the category I mean yes we'll be able to have a smaller market share of that but at least it's expanding it so you know because if we're just one brand out there that's only sweet with honey as a soda that's hydration people are like oh cool that's awesome like I love that drink but if multiple brands are doing it brands are doing it, then it's like, okay, that that's expanding, you know?

57:14And also to like, from a selfish perspective, I'm like, oh damn, like I would love to be the only one in the space. Maybe, you know, with these other brands will grow more, but also to like my whole thing at the end of the day is like, I want people to have better for you products that are actually better for you, you know? And if that means there's more products that are coming to market, so be it. I We're seeing honey being used all over the place and new protein bars that it's like sweet with honey rather than sucralose, aspartame, all of that. Like for me, I'm like, oh, heck yeah, that's amazing.

57:50Let's keep that innovation going because it's leading in that direction. And I care at the end of the day, I care about health. I care about fitness. I care about feeling my best. And I also care about other people feeling their best. And the only way to do that is to have more products in the market for it to be more viable. and uh you know on the hive side we've had multiple brands in the space you know that have been sweetened with honey and you know i think it's totally fine i think when it gets to the point where packaging is being copied and that kind of stuff that's when i'm like wait hold on let's kind of figure this out here and that's always tough because you got to get lawyers involved and all those kind of things and obviously try to avoid that as much as you can but you know you're never gonna be free of it you know it's always gonna happen if you're doing something right people are gonna copy you and we've seen it at the high level you know like I don't know if you've been looking but Anheuser-Busch has copied um was it Suncruiser or Surfside they came out with a brand that looked identical to it and like yeah I saw something I saw like an article like a headline yeah so it's gonna happen regardless and like that's the main point of flattery right there what a massive brand is copying you or massive beverage conglomerate is copying you then you know you're definitely doing something right but you still have to protect your best interest at the end of the day dude i know there's a lot of people that health and wellness is important to them to listen to this show and i know there's a lot of boozers as well uh and people that are always looking for products like strive soda that that you know they may enjoy their afternoon soda that they have and geez if i can get rid of all the sweeteners and and feel good about what I'm drinking.

59:29You know, I think, I think there's a lot of people that are going to be interested in what you're doing. If they're, if they want to get deeper into your world, you know, learn more about the products, buy the products, see if they're in their, their area, et cetera, or see if they can have them shipped to them. Where should people go? How do they get deeper into both your world? Like you specifically, if you're doing anything or talking about this stuff online and or the products themselves. Totally. Yeah. So if you're interested in, in spirited hive, just at spiritedhive on Instagram and spiritedhive.com.

59:58We ship to around 37 different states, 37, 36. So go on there. And then if you are in Michigan, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Texas, and Connecticut, we sell in liquor stores in all those states. And then on Strive, we're just getting kicked off. But if you guys live in San Diego, we sell in most of the convenience stores and kind of grocery stores in that area. And then you can also buy us at strivesoda.com. and then if you want to get in touch with me, I'm on social media a good amount. So if you want to shoot me a DM on any questions you have or founder questions or anything, it's at Jack Espy, E-S-P-Y.

1:00:35Dude, appreciate the hell out of you. I really enjoyed the depth. I could have gone another hour with you here. I really love the depth that we got into in the business. I appreciate you taking the time and kind of nerding out because I think even if someone's not in the same business as you, I think a lot of the problems that you're approaching and how you're thinking about them, you're doing in the right way. And so much of getting better at what we do individually is learning from other spaces that aren't our own. So I love these episodes, especially when we go deep like this and appreciate the hell out of you and your journey, man.

1:01:07Thanks so much. Awesome. Well, Ryan, I really appreciate you having me on. It was a great conversation and I love getting deep too. I mean, I love educating people on an industry that I knew nothing about only so long ago. And it's just getting other people to know it. I mean, it's business advice, even if it's not, like you said, even if it's not in your industry. You know, it's business advice at the end of the day or what you've learned, what you, you know, lessons you've learned along the way. So I really appreciate you having me on. Yeah, no, I love it, man. And, you know, I think the other thing from your story that I think is really admirable is that, like you said, five years ago, you didn't know a single thing about this space.

1:01:46and I think so many people have ideas, things they wanna do, an entrepreneurial spirit inside them of something they may wanna build and we don't realize that while five years at the start feels like a long time, but five years in looking back to you probably feels like yesterday to a certain extent. So it's not as long a time to kind of bring your dreams and turn them into something tangible that you're actually making money at and doing every day and I think it's a wonderful story. So thank you so much, bud. Of course. Yeah, Ryan, I'll leave you with this. I think one thing about like a piece of advice if I could give any potential entrepreneur, this is mainly for people who like are scared to take that first step.

1:02:30I think I don't always want to look at my story, but my story is different to your point. Like I knew nothing about beverage alcohol industry. I knew nothing. My whole background was real estate finance, real estate development to go work for someone else. So I had never had a job. I knew nothing about business. And I took that step. It doesn't matter if it's a well-calculated step or if it's a super messy step and you have no idea what you're doing. The biggest thing, and I know it sounds so cliche, is just taking that step but going full in. And like it will be super scary, but you'll learn it along.

1:03:06If it means a lot to you, you'll learn everything you need to know about that industry and you'll become a pro at it in no time. but you just have to take that first step, you know, to do it. I love it, bro. I love it. Nothing but success to you. Appreciate the hell out of you. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Ryan.

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