1040. News: Is this a once in a generation opportunity to change up the UK payments system?

23:31Samantha Emery:And that prime example, obviously, being Vocalink, a MasterCard company, and they run the existing account-to-account rails. But I think stepping beyond this, what we had through the National Payments Vision and we have through the work of the RPIB and the Delivery Co. is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reimagine what we need for that next generation of payments infrastructure. And if you're kind of taking a sort of Porter's Five Forces mindset around kind of competition, you kind of might be missing the gameplay of the future, where the action is happening, and what you need to do to be part of that.

24:15Samantha Emery:So I don't get as excited about it, to be honest.

24:19Ross Gallagher:I'm with you. This feels much more progressive and much less reactive than it's perhaps been presented, particularly in this article. And I think as well, when you look at the infrastructure plays that have happened, say, in India with the unified payments infrastructure or in Brazil with PICS, you can see the opportunity to sort of being progressive and thinking through what good innovation might look like in this space. Sophie, I suppose, what's your reaction to the story and some of the great points that Samantha made?

24:50Breno Oliveira:Oh, yeah. Samantha nailed it. Completely nailed it. It's so true. And I think we joked at the beginning about, you know, why ruin a good story with the truth, but it is actually really important. I mean, my reaction when I read it was like, you know, you kind of read it and you get sucked in. And then I was like, hang on a minute, this doesn't make any sense. Like, you know, Mascar and Visa, they're, of course, are involved with the MPV and you start sort of getting your head into it. And actually, it's interesting because you're sparking so much emotion and so much kind of you're playing to people's emotional side you're playing to the political state of the world and it's really tricky especially when I think about it from a payment standpoint not just from a domestic national NPV standpoint but we've all been working so hard for so many years as an industry to get global interoperability and then a statement like this is everyone retract you know come back into your nations and think only for yourselves or you know which isn't the outcome that any of us want or need as we go forward and it is quite sobering when behaviours of one person in power can threaten so many really really good initiatives and I'll stick to payments I'm not going any further anywhere else but it is it's really important that we keep that focus we keep that energy the mpv is superb and it is holistic in its approach um and and that is something that's really important and visa and mastercard will play a part in that for sure as they already have um and and having the domestic capability um to improve our movement of money is is the most important thing and staying globally connected to make sure that we continue to to push for that interoperability um to make sure it's inclusive it's accessible it's super super important to me So yeah, as much as I got, you know, you can get emotionally involved and you read it and react when you start getting into the detail and the facts.

26:51Breno Oliveira:It can be damaging and that's sobering, but we know the truth and we need to just make sure we keep talking that truth.

26:57Ross Gallagher:Absolutely right. Breno, kind of everything I think that we've talked about shows that maybe the positioning within this article isn't quite the story. But I suppose it's also reflective maybe of where we're at sort of politically at the moment, just sort of globally. Some of the things that we've maybe taken for granted for a really long time are starting to shift and shift quite quickly. And, you know, some of the political moves that we've seen of late have been maybe unexpected, a little bit turbulent. So I suppose it's not completely alien that some of those things might start to shape some of the narratives that we're seeing from maybe a press and a journalistic perspective.

27:36Sophie Condie:Just for the record, I believe that there is a very low likelihood that a Visa in Mastercard will ever be turned off. But I think it sparkles the conversation on how diverse we want to be in the payments industry in terms of payment methods. And we can see some shifts that are driven by user behavior that shows as well that some of the payment methods out there, they are meeting the customers where they are. and we saw the growth of A2A payments, especially in Europe with Bleak in Poland, BISUM in Spain and MBUA in Portugal. Of course, the most famous name, PIX in Brazil, where the adoption was massive so fast.

28:20Sophie Condie:But I think the conversation is all about how can we make sure that we can offer the payment methods for the customers that they need and not like what's going to happen in an apocalyptic world where we don't have the card schemes anymore. I don't think so. I just think it's just a headline, so to speak. But we need to think about how the payment landscape is changing. If you look at Wero, for instance, it's an initiative from EPI and they have massive banks involved, heavily involved. And the experience for the user is paramount, so easy to pay with Weiro nowadays as well. So we will expect that this type of payment methods will increase with time.

29:09Sophie Condie:But then it brings another question, right? So I'm Brazilian myself, and I have seen how PIX changed the payments landscape in Brazil in just a few years. But at the same time, Brazil is a big country, right? So how can we replicate it across the globe? because we don't want to have segregation of payments. We want to have this ecosystem well integrated, like Sophia said, and how this integration will make sure that everything is instant, fraud is being fought in the right way and without impacting the end consumers in a bad way. So I think this is an exciting moment, to be honest, especially when it comes to Wero and local payment methods that may be getting adopted in the upcoming years.

30:02Sophie Condie:And I expect that the end game will be that the end consumers will have more options, and more options is always better.

30:10Ross Gallagher:Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that. And I think Breno's absolutely right. This is an exciting moment. This is sort of UK PLC saying, all right, we've got some great infrastructure, but we're not going to rest on our laurels. and we're thinking about right well what does that next generation look like yeah absolutely

30:25Samantha Emery:and I think you know comments that have been made around who's involved in the delivery co this was all sparked by a funding call late last year that's brought together this initial group and industry is there for you to step in and sometimes that will be with your voice sometimes that will be with financial support as well but the opportunity is there we have the benefit within the UK of having a very open regulatory community and sort of policymaker community so it's it's not a time for people to sit by the sidelines if you have ideas use your voice you know there may be different degrees to which different institutions can contribute but the more we get in, the more we will get out of this.

31:15Samantha Emery:So I'm really excited to see what happens next.

31:18Ross Gallagher:Me too. And I love how we've turned a story with a headline that was a little bit maybe heading in the fear-mongering direction to one of sort of optimism and excitement.

31:26Samantha Emery:Absolutely. That's what we're here for.

31:30Ross Gallagher:Exactly. All right. Well, look, on that note, we're just going to take a quick pause and we'll be back with you very shortly. Hey, folks. David Breer here, CEO of 11FS. Here's something you might not know about me. I get a lot of people trying to impersonate me online. Fake profiles, scam emails, the lot. And a big part of that comes from data brokers, hundreds of them, quietly collecting and selling your personal information. Your phone number, email, home address, job title, all out there and all fueling identity theft, scam calls, and spam. If you've ever searched your own name online, hands up, who hasn't?

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32:33Sophie Condie:You can even protect your family members too. Fintech Insider listeners get 60 % off an annual plan. Just head to incogni.com slash fintechinsider and use code fintechinsider. And yes, it's risk-free with a 30-day money-back guarantee. You'll find the link in the description.

33:22Ross Gallagher:Now a quick break from the headlines to tell you about our latest Insights Pod, where our CEO David Breer sits down with fellow CEO Emma Hagen, UK CEO of Clearbank, the UK's first new clearing bank in the UK in more than 250 years. ClearBank is building the infrastructure layer that so many fintechs and financial institutions rely on. And now it's starting to push into the next wave with digital assets and stable coins firmly on the agenda. Emma unpacks what ClearBank does, what it takes to scale bank-grade infrastructure, and what this move into digital assets really means in practice. It's out now.

34:00Ross Gallagher:Just head to the podcast below this one. All right, our next story comes from Finextra with a headline, Global FinTech Investment Rebound in 2025, supported by stronger exit activity. So after three years of declining investment, the global FinTech market turned a corner in 2025, attracting$116 billion, up from$95.5 billion in 2024, according to KPMG's latest Pulse of FinTech report. Overall deal volume dropped to about 4 ,719 deals, an eight-year low, indicating fewer but larger, more selective investments. Venture capital and M &A activity drove growth, with digital assets and AI attracting significant funding.

34:48Ross Gallagher:Payments investment remained steady and investor interests stayed strong in B2B payments, real-time infrastructure and emerging markets, setting a more balanced stage for 2026. But exits surged to$104.4 billion. That's the third highest on record. Sophie, I mean, lots of, I suppose, sort of different indicators of different things in this story. What stood out for you?

35:13Breno Oliveira:I think it's a great story. There's some great facts and data points. And I think it's so refreshing. I attended quite a few events just sort of through the latter part, well, actually probably mid last year, where, you know, just wasn't saying that story. And we weren't hearing that. It was much more of a negative tone around investment and focus on fintechs and so on. So, and the payments industry in totality. But I think there is a much more positive story behind this. And I think that actually it's still a shifting it's shifting the behavior of startup scale-ups who who require investment in different spaces it's shifting still from that behavior that we saw pre kind of 2021 where it was all you know money money money throw go don't worry about profitability just go grow test learn grow do whatever you need to do here's the money go do it whereas now obviously it's a very very different landscape for businesses which is you know profitability scalability resilience and um and sustainability so i think it's that that is is just reaffirming that's still the landscape i think ai is um you know that is absolutely the um the area of focus at the moment and getting a lot of of of attention and funding and so on but it's also quite um turbulent from what i i read i'm not an expert in it so i can't um give a huge amount but that's certainly what I'm picking up I think we still run the risk of the talent drain and I think coming back to some of the bits that Samantha you mentioned at the top of this podcast I think that the risks that are socially kind of happening and the ways that we're approaching things we're leaking talent there's still a bit of a tough landscape for entrepreneurs in the UK and especially within this space.

37:11Breno Oliveira:So I think it's a really good news story. It's a really positive one. I think it's still a reset and I'm happy to have challenge here from you guys. But I still think it's a reset, still proving that sustainability and scalability and profitability of businesses as opposed to just throwing money in and looking to test and learn and grow very quickly. So yeah, that was my view on it.

37:34Ross Gallagher:I totally agree. And you made so many great points. And I think you're absolutely right. that this is not what we've seen before in terms of lots of funding for whatever you want to do and sort of lots of bets right across the landscape. This feels much more intentional, sort of more towards some of those sort of later stage investment companies that have clear routes to scale, clear routes to profitability, as you say. But I agree with you insofar as I think this is a really positive step in the right direction for investor confidence. sort of returning to the market but sam it still feels like one of the big sort of issues when it comes to the uk and fintech in the uk is around those exits and those ipos and it really still feels like even if you as a business sort of you know uk born and bred would like to list or go public in the uk it certainly feels like the prevailing sense at the moment is that the value isn't necessarily there for shareholders and investors.

38:36Samantha Emery:I think it is just a different time and you know Sophie talked to it I think we have matured as a sector and I think what the strategic context supported five ten years ago it just doesn't fundamentally now and I think there's been a lag around investors almost kind of recalibrating sense of expectation you know they know full well the funding availability has been different but things like shifts in the regulatory posture, lessons learned that we've seen from our biggest success stories and you know some of the sort of gnarlier firms that we've seen sort of come into and exit the marketplace.

39:21Samantha Emery:You know that being said I still hold by the fact that this is net positive. I think part of that I talked to Reg Posture. Certainty is up in a number of areas. You talk to things like digital assets there are we're counting on both hands multiple times at the moment around the number of papers that are coming out sort of you know in the last six months in the coming six months around digital assets from our regulators so that certainty of what it means to step into the market is building which is hugely necessary and you know going going back to previous discussion I'm sure that the UK is seeing an uptick from divestment away from what are now seen as less predictable jurisdictions right and we have I think a growing pedigree on sustainable scaling in the UK which I think also builds investor confidence and I think when you talk to the sorts of things that people are looking for now it's understanding the dynamics in the market So when you think about things like payments and digital assets, seeing, I think, more shifts towards sort of infrastructure plays rather than some of the sort of, you know, front end product type investments.

40:46Samantha Emery:and again part of that goes down to what is the regulatory burden when I think about the sort of stable coins regime as it's developing when you look at what has been set out by the the bank the regulatory sort of burden that sits around issuance versus that of custody or that of being a sort of rail in the process is vastly different so bets are going to be placed accordingly so as ever this is one of those situations where all of those parts of the market need to come together in terms of you know the sort of policy that incentivizes that sort of competition and choice in the economy investors understanding where they're going to get a return and as Sophie rightfully said the right talent to sort of take the opportunity and run with it basically.

41:44Sophie Condie:I definitely agree with Samantha and Sophie here. I think that the mentality of growth at all costs is gone. So now we need to look at, especially the investors, they look at profitability, efficiency, different ways of creating revenue. And I think from a product engineering standpoint as well, the investors now expect that we know all of the things that we were talking about, like 15 years ago, that we know what cloud is, what API native is. So now it's time to implement them, not to reinvent them. And as we see where the investments are nowadays, especially where they're funneling into, it's more on AI, the new technology where we are not so good at.

42:24Sophie Condie:But if you put AI aside for a moment, we can think about the investments that are being made today more narrow, but more precise. And that's where we should focus as an industry as well, where you see payments steady, but on a real-time infrastructure with strong signals from the customers that they demand the best experience now. We are all used to use apps nowadays. We are used to P2P payments. So I think the future is bright. The rebound is positive, most definitely from my standpoint. But there is no more hype. It's all about making sure that we can sustainably keep the growth and make sure that revenue is targeted from day one.

43:17Breno Oliveira:The bit that I just thought really resonated with me was the fact that, like Breno said, I think there's something really interesting as well. And it's something I spoke about last year a bit was the consumer payments. So what we're used to as people to people is as a consumer of payments isn't translated at the moment into businesses. Not entirely. It's much more cumbersome and full of friction and things disappear into ethers and you're like, that doesn't make any sense. But the tolerance of that is going because as humans, we're so used to, as consumers, our payments instantly moving, money instantly being where it needs to be.

43:53Breno Oliveira:And I think to that point around growth, but also that sustainability in the infrastructure for businesses, particularly when we're starting to look more at B2B payments. again that that demand for um safe sound um robust resilient um capability rather than a kind of patchwork of lots of bits and bobs is is you know dying out and then that infrastructure around embedding and and giving that that full capability is is really really powerful and required i don't think people have the the tolerance to wait and also the other piece around digital assets. We touched on there's such an exciting market here, especially in the UK, around things like stablecoin and our evolution of that and getting the policies right.

44:44Breno Oliveira:I think there's just such a hungry market, a capable market, an ambitious market, ripe for investment as well, which, you know, complements all of this conversation.

44:54Ross Gallagher:Well, it's actually, Sophie, the perfect segue onto our next story, which comes from Reuters with a headline Stripe's crypto unit Bridge obtains initial approval to establish a trust bank. Bridge the stablecoin infrastructure unit owned by Stripe has gained preliminary approval from the US Office of the Comptroller of the Currency to establish a national trust bank. If final approval is granted Bridge would be authorized to custody digital assets, issue stablecoins, orchestrate stablecoin services and manage stablecoin reserves for businesses and financial institutions. The OCC approval is intended to help bridge support enterprises, fintechs, crypto companies and traditional financial institutions to build with quote digital dollars within a regulated federal framework.

45:43Ross Gallagher:Stripe acquired bridge in October 2024 in a deal reportedly valued at around 1.1 billion and the new trust bank charter would deepen its integration into the regulated US financial system. That's Stripes integration. Breno, I'll come to you first on this. I mean, what stood out for me in the previous story and sort of in this as well is when you look at the areas that are attracting innovation and where we're seeing a ton of investment, you know, AI, digital assets, you know, you're really talking about something that's going to affect the entire technology stack right down to the infrastructure layer.

46:20Ross Gallagher:And so I think for me, it feels like, say, the next wave of disruptive innovation has the potential to go much further, be much more fundamental than maybe the last sort of 15 or 20 years that you saw. Is that sort of in line with sort of where you see the market going based on what we're seeing at the moment?

46:39Sophie Condie:Well, I think it's a good move. If you look at 2025, what happens is that stablecoins start to be used and they have the value of their own, where we are moving from a speculative market where crypto was being just speculated and traded for gains and stable coins start to be used as instruments, financial instruments. This shift is what will give value to these digital assets. And I'm not saying that Swift is going to go anywhere, but for many of the cases that financial institutions use Swift, maybe stable coins would be a better choice. and what happens is that the frameworks, the regulatory frameworks around it will also dictate how fast we'll be able to adopt it and perhaps stablecoins will be the equivalent to P2P payments in the future.

47:28Sophie Condie:And that's what I expect because liquidity is still an issue and it's always going to be an issue, right? Because businesses, they need liquidity today. So, and the liquidity that they need today is in reference to how fast payment institutions and financial institutions can process their payments. So if you cannot process the payments fast enough, it means that down the line, they will have problems with liquidity. I'm very optimistic about stable coins. And I believe that as the years go by, we utilize this more and more. And the framework's there already. It's just a matter of utilizing it.

48:06Sophie Condie:And the infrastructure that will be built just as Stripe is trying to do, So I think that's going to be massive and adoption will just increase.

48:16Ross Gallagher:Sophie, how good do you think stablecoins can be in terms of solving some of those complex payment use cases that you sort of mentioned at the top of the call? I mean, I think we can probably consider it as sort of hygiene in terms of solving for some of those international payment use cases. How sort of mainstream do you see stablecoins becoming?

48:36Breno Oliveira:It's a question that dominates a lot of my conversations with some advisors and different people that I talk to. I think it really, I know it's not a clean answer, but it does depend. So I think personally, with the knowledge I have and being somebody who's worked in payments for 20 years, I see stablecoin as the gap between, you know, the gap that's been required, exactly like Breno said, between kind of your crypto and your fiat. And also, I just think, even if you, you know if you think about decentralized and centralized currencies and ways of moving money I think there is such a strong use case for complex payments to utilize stablecoin to solve for this I think there is definitely going there is still this gap and I think it as in there is this I was having a really good chat with somebody who's heavy in this space and has kind of done a lot of this global interoperability, utilising a lot of the digital tokenisation and movement of money instantly globally.

49:38Breno Oliveira:And you sit there and you're like, this is fantastic. We're adopting all the technology that gives us a mutable ledger. It gives us that safety and soundness and speed of movement of currency that makes it accessible and inclusive across the globe, which is exactly the end point. But I think that sophistication of understanding that and being able to really bring that to life I still think that gap is quite large and I actually think especially I work directly so she'll pay sales directly into the legal sector if you think how the legal sector work and then you start throwing in things like even a digital contract let alone a smart contract which obviously stablecoin smart contracts hand in glove they're worlds apart and and at the moment there's a big gap to adoption.

50:32Breno Oliveira:I think that this is a great solve for a lot of the complex payments that we see. And I think that business application of experience business application needs to happen now. So I think this is super, super exciting. And I think even when I think when the blockchain was launched, when crypto was launched, when all of this started coming into our market you could see and feel the possibilities and the benefits of this technology that it could bring to the payment ecosystem and and it's getting ever closer to adoption it's we need to bridge that gap with with real business experience and real life use cases that that make the difference I think the easiest one you can do is that treasury management in a in a in a big corporate, right?

51:21Breno Oliveira:That treasury management, that sophistication of liquidity management, if you had stablecoin that can translate to all the different currencies, that's a great use case. Complex payments of a large M &A with multiple people involved or multiple currencies, jurisdictions, again, you have a much safer way of transferring the value. So yes, there's a huge use case, especially in complex payments. I just think we've got some work to do on getting to the adoption um i'm fortunate enough i was saying i've got on to the fca stablecoin sprint um which i'm super super excited to be part of because i think we need to to apply this and we need to apply it now so we can start adopting it um more more widely yeah look you're so right to spotlight

52:06Ross Gallagher:some of those barriers to adoption like the you know we all know the frustrations of going through a mortgage journey or something like that and then you can't even do it you still need a wet signature and all of that sort of stuff the smart contracts feels like a lifetime away sam where are you add on the growth of stablecoin adoption? Are you bullish or are you a little bit more hesitant?

52:25Samantha Emery:I think reasonably bullish. I mean, you know, way back when the FCA was sort of fast looking and it's taxonomy of digital assets and it was talking to, you know, crypto stablecoins as were determined back then. And we hadn't really gotten into the conversation on tokenized deposits, but it was quite clear that if you could reconcile with some of the challenges in the early positioning of stable coins that almost more truly addressed those requirements of money, it then had the opportunity to fulfill its potential in a way that crypto was never going to solve for. And so I think a lot of the time the conversations can be conflated but actually where I think we end up is sort of crypto being considered as a class to one side and then when you're looking at sort of you know money management whether it's at a firm level whether it's an economy level and and so on across borders you're talking about you know is there a CBDC in jurisdiction Are there tokenized deposits offered by the commercial banks in jurisdiction?

53:45Samantha Emery:Are there stable coins available? And the blend of all of that, I think, is going to vary jurisdiction to jurisdiction, corridor to corridor, depending on what we're trying to solve for. And really, when you think about it, it ought to. That kind of shows effective competition in operation. so I think reasonably bullish in a combination of a broader ecosystem of smarter money and with still a way of you know reconciling the aggregate picture communicating consistently so we don't lose that visibility at scale that operational effectiveness at scale that we know we all need as part of a very heavily regulated sector.

54:35Ross Gallagher:Yeah, I mean, there's still just a ton of debate around where this is going to go even in the next five years. You know, I think Citi have a bullish sort of case where it hits 4 trillion by 2030. And I think JP Morgan is saying it'll be lucky to get to 600 billion in that time because it's not going to accelerate beyond where sort of crypto's heading just sort of organically. But of course, you know, the right regulatory frameworks like the Genius Act, obviously, and all of these things, I think could be a massive enabler. So yeah, one I think that's still to play out, but one that we'll certainly keep a close eye on.

55:09Ross Gallagher:All right, well, on that note, we're just going to take a quick pause and we'll be back with you very shortly.

55:18Ross Gallagher:All right, and finally, something a bit different to end the show this week. in honor of Valentine's Day last weekend. This headline comes from TechCrunch. Score, the dating app for people with good credit, is back. Launched just days before Valentine's Day 2024, the app required users to have a credit score of at least 675 to register. At the time, its founder said he created the app to encourage partners to talk more about personal finance since, quote, quote, financial compatibility is quietly one of the most important relationship factors, yet no dating platform addresses it directly. The initial version drew criticism as being too exclusive or classist, despite attracting around about 50 ,000 users in six months.

56:04Ross Gallagher:The relaunched app is more inclusive. Anyone can join the basic tier without verification, while a quote verified tier requires ID and credit score verification for extra features. credit and identity checks are done via Equifax with soft pulls that don't impact credit. And the app does not store full sensitive financial data. I'm slowing down because I'm trying to think like, what's the angle on this? Where do I go? Who do I throw to? It's just, it's just really weird. It's just really weird.

56:41Breno Oliveira:I didn't think I'd be talking about this on a payment podcast, but I mean, why not, right? I guess, yeah, we're here now. We're going to roll with this.

56:49Sophie Condie:I definitely see the take that they are trying to do, but if they did do something like this when I met my wife first time, I'll definitely pass.

57:00Sophie Condie:I'll be single forever.

57:01Samantha Emery:As I read about it, I was just hearing an advert with TLC No Scrubs playing in the background. Other than that, I think I fundamentally agree with the point of financial compatibility being key in a relationship. But as in business, I think it's what you choose to measure to drive the outcomes that's important. And a credit score is a point in time thing that doesn't necessarily talk to the financial values that kind of drive outcomes over time. And I think the really important thing as well is it doesn't account for those systemically driven differences in score that aren't down to the individual.

57:49Samantha Emery:So there's almost a risk of kind of bias creeping in aside from any moral view you have on the product in its entirety. so I can see what they're getting at but is it the right measure for the outcome that they're

58:04Breno Oliveira:looking for question mark I think I'd add my flavor to that as well as in I completely agree with what they're getting at and I think I was I was reading something else I think you've probably all seen on LinkedIn the mad money club as well where getting women to talk more openly about finances because again and I've met quite a few kind of women and and and startups where they're trying to encourage people to safely feel comfortable talking about finances and what it means to them and where they are. So I think as individuals, we're not very good at, you know, I'm a sweeping statement, but that individually, we're not very good at talking about it.

58:39Breno Oliveira:Then, you know, actually, if it is something that's really important to you and the financial compatibility for your dating site, I think I like what their statement is. And you could argue that each dating site needs a USP. There's enough of them. So, you know, they're trying to get into a different market maybe. I think I'd be the same as Breno though, you know, when I first met my husband, I'm not sure whether I would have passed or he would have passed. So again, I think it's individual to everybody. And I think that, yeah, it's a really, really interesting spin on it all. But talking about finances, being confident to talk about finances and your financial position without being shy or making it taboo.

59:19Breno Oliveira:I think the Mad Money Club was talking about doing, they're doing a couples one, which I thought was fascinating because I mean, I will speak openly and honestly, me and my husband are terrible at talking about money and I work with payments and in the financial services space. We do talk about it, but you know, it is a tricky subject. So I like that they're bringing it to the forefront, but in everybody's individual.

59:41Sophie Condie:Yeah, I definitely see the appeal on that. And as I said before, or I'm not sure if that's the right way to measure and to make a door. But anyway, what I really think is that couples, they need to talk about their financial goals, and that's where they should meet and try to understand whether their goals aligned, rather than knowing where they are at the moment. There are so many decisions that can be made in a point in time that some people need to go on a mortgage early in their lives because of an opportunity, or they will go to university, and therefore they need to get some loans, and so on and so forth.

1:00:16Sophie Condie:I understand the appeal, but yeah, I do think that there are better ways to talk about money and to increase financial literacy between couples.

1:00:26Breno Oliveira:I like that.

1:00:27Sophie Condie:Who said romance was dead, eh?

1:00:30Ross Gallagher:Look, I think that's the perfect way to end what has been a really fun show. Thank you so much to all of you guys. Maybe we can just do a quick whiz around where can people find out a little bit more about you and your company? Shall we start with you, Sophie?

1:00:45Breno Oliveira:Yeah, of course. Yeah. So, like I said, we're ShillPay. You can find us at shillpay.com. You can find us on LinkedIn. We are going to be continuing our quest to continue to solve for client money solutions and working with the legal sector and with the changes of regulation in that space and the lack of appetite for the legal sector to hold and manage client monies. Leaning into the stories we've already spoken to, helping mitigate fraud and the risks associated with client monies and being able to hold it and then disperse it into the right places. So we'll continue that great work and also continue to innovate with payments, especially with digital payments and what's ahead of us.

1:01:24Breno Oliveira:So really excited about that. Thanks for having me.

1:01:27Ross Gallagher:Pleasure, Sophie. Thank you so much. Samantha, how about you?

1:01:29Samantha Emery:Yeah, I'll keep it short and sweet. You can find me on LinkedIn. I'm usually posting about sort of where I'll be heading next or what I've learned from industry. So that's the best place to find me.

1:01:41Ross Gallagher:Excellent. Thank you, Sam. And Breno, how about you?

1:01:43Sophie Condie:We are Payable. So we help merchants, business and enterprises alike to make their money flow. So you can find us at payable.com and you can always find me on LinkedIn, Breno Oliveira. And if you have ever an opportunity to meet face-to-face in any events, I'm more than happy to chat about payments and the payments industry.

1:02:04Ross Gallagher:Thank you for having me. Perfect, Breno. Thank you so much. As for me, likewise, you can find me on LinkedIn. in. And if you want to learn more about 11FS consulting, you can find us at 11fs.com forward slash ventures. That wraps up today's episode. Thank you so much for listening to the show. If you like what you've heard, please make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast platform of choice. And if you really like what you've heard, why not share the podcast with a colleague or friend? As always, if you want to join the conversation, find us on social media, just search for 11FS or FinTech Insider or email podcasts at 11fs.com.

1:02:37Ross Gallagher:Thank you again, Thank you.

1:03:08Ross Gallagher:This is not our breakfast time.