983. News: Monzo shifts investments to Seccl, Pipe levels up with AI and BNPL meets its regulator

27:39So I am dramatically simplifying, but my point I'm making is that the technology has gotten to a point, if you just take MCP, where you can look at not only the decisions it's making, like the outcomes of that compliance or fraud review, you can look at the decision process and then I can make a very, very good decision about whether it's meeting my policy or not. Does that make sense? It does make sense. And it's super interesting. Neil, I'd be interested in your view because there's always been a question about sort of ethics with AI, but also questions around sort of lending and credit and groups not wanting to be discriminated against for reasons they can't see and so on.

28:21How important do you think this sort of explainability is in enabling AI to play a bigger role in financial services? I think it's massively important. You know, there's a history of discriminatory practices in lending. And, you know, you talk about black box. If you're just saying yes or no and you don't understand why, oftentimes it can lead to bad outcomes. So we're very, very careful of, you know, first of all, we don't want any sort of characteristics that could lead to a discrimination. But even still, you know, some lenders will use, say, postcode data, which can actually be discriminatory by itself, right?

28:58So we won't do that. So you have to be able to stand by a decision. You know, the good thing about being regulated is you still need to be able to sort of, I always say you still need to be able to look the regulator in the eye and say why you lent to that person or why you didn't. And it's not good enough, going back to what I said earlier, having a responsibility to just say, oh, well, the robot said no, so that's what it is. So it's extremely important. You know, as Clara was saying, not only understand the decision, but how come the decision, why was that decision made? And actually, I can show you why it's made.

29:30Have you had any challenges with your sort of culture and your employees, Clara? I mean, because bringing in AI agents is great. How have your employees responded to it? Have there been any sort of difficult or challenging sort of aspects to that? I'm sure there are some people who've welcomed it, but others who've maybe been a little bit more uncomfortable or taken more time to adjust. It's such a good question because I don't know if any of you have read the book Range by David Epstein. It's an older book, several years old. But what I'm experiencing right now are many concepts of that, which is I can't say that there's been resistance at all.

30:06Everyone is kind of feeling a FOMO inside our company about being able to have generated a prototype a certain way, generate an agent themselves. But there is a learning curve there and you need to know the tools. You have to learn how to prompt. You have to figure out what is hallucination. And what we've done is created a tiger team that is sitting and doing hack weeks with each of our functions. And so I've hired in that tiger team SWAT team. And that SWAT team is now, you know, jumping in with each team. And that's how, for example, we developed the treasury agent quite quickly. And now they're getting more self-service and being able to do that.

30:45But the reason I mentioned the range book is because a concept that's so fascinating to me is that with the type of things we have with AI today, if you get these things right, you can become a very powerful team of one that used to be a team of six. And so I can put my head of my principal product manager of AI and experimentation next to a finance person. And because that that he is not just technical, he actually has a finance background as well. He is able to sit next to that finance person and almost do the workflows intuitively as that finance person did. So he needs to know both finance and AI, and that requires someone who has range in their experience, which is very different from someone who has had, let's say, a single domain depth and stuck in that place.

31:36And it's requiring a different kind of capability, and I even think about this for my own kids. How much am I going to expose them to different fields and domains so that they can cross-think and be able to assess and critically think? because a machine is going to be drawing that in and they need that judgment, but they can't be doing it in a very siloed view of the world. It's a very, I guess, potentially philosophical comment, but it does relate to the combination of the person that needs to sit a line beside the machine. It does. It's almost impossible to talk about AI without thinking about the implications for all of us as individuals and the implications for sort of jobs, not in the future, jobs now.

32:20Okay, well, on that note, we'll take a very quick pause, and we will be back very shortly.

32:49required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus. Hey Chicago, class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it, style it, make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up, it shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Crock store today.

33:25Welcome back. Before we get back into the news, we want to share our latest insights episode with you. We're zooming in on one of the hottest trends in financial services, personalization. We're not just talking about your bank app greeting you by name. What really makes an experience feel personal? Is it smarter product suggestions or a full-on redesign of how value is delivered to you? In this episode, David Barton Grimley breaks down how banks and fintechs are using personalization to win hearts and win market share. From AI and chatbots to data-driven insights. He explores how emerging tech is turning static financial tools into dynamic digital companions.

34:06The episode is out now. Just head to the podcast below this one. Okay, back to the news. So our next story is new buy now pay later affordability checks may cover even the smallest loans. This was reported by The Guardian, among other sources. The UK's Financial Conduct Authority is putting forward new regulations to bring the£13 billion buy now pay later market under its supervision. From the 15th of July, 2026, BNPL providers will conduct affordability checks on all purchases, even small loans of under£50, to prevent unaffordable borrowing and loan stacking. The Financial Conduct Authority estimates that 11 million British adults used BNPL in the year to May 2024.

34:53More than 1.1 million owed more than£500, and 5 million had debts of at least£50. pounds. Buy now pay later providers must apply for FCA authorization within six months of regulation day. And the consultation on these proposals remains open until the 26th of September. So Neil, I think it makes sense to come to you first on this because you've welcomed these new checks. Why are you enthusiastic about this? Well, I'm extremely enthusiastic about it as a regulated lender because I think it's important when you're lending someone money, it's important for you to both know that they're the type of person who will pay you back and that they can pay you back.

35:36So if you look back to the payday lending fiasco of the early mid-teens, these folks were sort of targeting people who were creditworthy but couldn't afford the loans. And what happened was they gave you a little loan that turned into a bigger loan and a bigger loan in a bigger loan and then it was unsustainable and it ended in a very bad outcome. So we see a lot of parallels with buy now pay later to payday loans. They're way, way better than payday loans. I'm not saying they are, but when they're without this affordability check, you give the first person their 50 pound for free, then you give them a little more, a little more, a little more, and then it gets out of control.

36:11And just like some of the stats you said, and people, people, because it's not regulated, because it sort of doesn't have the same disclosures, it doesn't necessarily look like a loan. So people are taking these things out, thinking it's just an easier way to go shopping and buy stuff. And if you don't have an affordability rule, it's very, very easy to end up in bad debt. James, what's your view on Buy Now, Pay Later? It's one of those sort of Marmite products where some people love it, some people hate it. Do you see it as a legitimate budgeting tool or encouragement for impulsive spending? I think like Neil said, it's all about how you implement it.

36:48And I think the changes that they've released feel like we're on the right track to getting it under a bit of control. I think we're using the right way can certainly be a super helpful budgeting tool. And I think it's important not to pass too heavy judgment on these types of things. But equally, I can totally understand how there's instances where it's not even used in the right way or causing customer detriment, which I think as an industry, we should all be trying to avoid. Neil, how do you think these checks can be done in a sort of maybe slightly more lightweight way? Because obviously people sometimes don't want a full credit check to be run.

37:23You know, people don't necessarily understand how credit checks work. People have this sense that a credit check can affect your credit score. So there's all that, you know, that kind of sort of nervousness about it. How do you think this can be managed? Well, that's part of an education piece. So now for pretty much any loan that anyone applies for, it won't show up on your credit file. The lenders will do what they call a soft search. All these checks are instantaneous. So I don't really see it affecting the journey. If someone needs to apply for buy now, pay later, and there needs to be some level of KYC or connecting the bank account, you can do an affordability check just the same.

37:58You just say how much income you make and then what your expenses are, and then you sort of put it through. You would call a bureau or use open banking. So it's very pretty seamless. I don't think even the customers will really see a difference. What it will do, though, is it's going to affect the lenders, right? Or the, sorry, the buy now, pay later providers because they're going to have to say no to a whole bunch of people who previously they would have said yes to. And as James said, and as you said, it's like Marmite, but I think buy now, pay later is good, but it can also be bad, right? You know, you have the BNPL providers going to the merchant saying, if you put us on your platform, we'll make sure that people spend 20 to 30 % more than they would have otherwise.

38:41Now imagine if a lender said, I'm going to get this guy to take out 20 to 30 % more debt than he otherwise would. That's obviously not a good thing. But with so affordability sort of helps stop that to a certain extent. It's definitely a good thing. Clarelle, I have no idea how old your children are. They're looking at you probably quite young. Would you be keen on your children using buy now, pay later as they turn into young adults? If someone gave them a health of their finances score at the same time. And why I say that is that we often talk about these things, and very rightly, you know, the way James phrased it, it's, we judge it, it does help in certain circumstances, and we have to be safe about it.

39:25But no one gives you the measure of that. And so, you know, this is a strange thing to say, but even I just recalled that Goldman Sachs for a while in their consumer bank, they started to publish through a survey of their customers to actually get their financial health. How well did they handle financial shocks? And that became a standard thing that they could look at to see how that improved over time. So I know there are two and three of my kids. They're not going to be looking at this. But let's say when they're 18, there probably could be a world in which it's quite obvious to them, not just their credit score, but what is their truly rounded health of their finances, including investing or whatever else that's going on with them.

40:06We don't live in a far world away from that, and I'm sorry for being so in the future, but that is what I would do. If you want to do it, measure it, is the point. I'm a huge fan of financial health scores, and I wish there was more use of them. I mean, obviously it's got to be somewhat holistic to be useful, but I think you're spot on. Those are helpful. Can I just say that I love to hear that because at CreditSpring we do offer everyone what we call a financial stability score and we give different types of scores because it's important for people to know where they stand, right? Because we talk about these things being totally binary and for some people, buy now, pay later is the best way to manage their finances, 0 % interest, you're very responsible.

40:49Well, for others, it's just a slippery slope into debt. But I think you're right. Having that sort of dashboard is absolutely important. And then, you know, financial education is the other piece. How can we improve financial education? Because, you know, in the UK, the financial education age, literacy age is only age 11. And everyone's embarrassed about that, but they're still buying financial products and they still don't really know what they're getting into. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. It's the right product for some people. in the right way and it can be the wrong product when it's offered to people who may be financially vulnerable, people who maybe don't understand it, or people who are in financial difficulty.

41:31Neil, what do you think this is going to do in terms of, you mentioned, you know, the importance of sort of regulated providers and so on. Do you think this is, do you think this is going to end up sort of improving standards in the industry as a whole? Yeah, I have a lot of views. One, yes, it will absolutely improve standards because it's important to make sure people can afford credit. But I think it's also going to cause a lot of change and upheaval. So if the playbook remains the same, as we've seen in the past, so the regulator comes in, they regulate an industry, they essentially change the rules.

42:03And what's happened, for good reasons with regards to the payday lenders and guarantor lenders, the rules changed and that opened up the back door for loads of claims companies to go after or the lenders to get the money back. So I think we're going to see a lot of the maybe lesser good, but well-behaved buy now, pay later companies are going to be in trouble because you're going to have these guys going, he should never have given you a loan. We'll get a claim against this person. So you might see loads of people end up going bust. I think you'll see a lot of consolidation in the industry. Some of the bigger BNPL providers have been very vocal about, oh, we're already self-regulating ourselves and all of that.

42:42but that's not the same as real regulation. So you're going to have these claims companies swarming around. And I think that's going to be a catalyst for some type of change. But I'm not anti-buy now, pay later. And the same reason that the regulator has eliminated access to payday loans, access to guarantor, that's sort of why Credit Spring exists, to help people get short-term credit. Buy now, pay later has been the main filler of that gap. They've come in. Otherwise, people would have had to go somewhere else to get that credit. I think the point you're making about claims is very, very interesting because, of course, the UK and other countries, the UK has sort of seen a series of sort of mis-selling scandals that are then followed by sort of a whole series of claims.

43:23I mean, for listeners outside the UK, you know, in the UK, you're constantly bombarded by claims companies saying, have you done this? Have you done this? Did you buy a car? Did you do this? Did you do that? Because we can do a claim for you. Interesting. Okay, well, you know, let's hope that that leads to, as I'm sure it will, to more appropriate use of a good product that has sometimes been misused. Our next story is about Stripe. Stripe has acquired startup Aurum for a disappointingly undisclosed amount. So we don't quite know how much Stripe has paid, but I'm sure the founders have done very well and the backers have done well or they wouldn't have sold.

44:07So Stripe has acquired Orem, which is a payments orchestration startup with a deal announced on July the 18th. It was founded in 2019 by Stephanie Kirkpatrick. And Orem provides a unified API application programming interface that supports real-time payout rails and uses AI to pre-authorize transactions and predict fund availability. The acquisition amplifies Stripe's push into real-time payment infrastructure. It complements recent moves like acquiring stablecoin platform Bridge and data API provider Privy. Now integrated with Stripe, the technology promises faster and more predictable payouts for businesses and individuals alike.

44:49So to hear a bit more about what Aurum does, here's what founder Stephanie Kirkpatrick told us when she came on episode 793 of the news show in 2023. Hi, everybody. I'm the founder and CEO of Orem. Orem provides the simplest API for fast, reliable payments. We're obsessed with solving the time to money problem in the U.S. And I think it's just a shocking statistic that more than half of Americans can't pay an unexpected thousand dollar bill, and most adults have very little in savings. And so the concept in the U.S. of instant access to money is a total myth. And right now, consumers and businesses aren't really thinking about how their money moves from point A to point B.

45:30They just realize that they need it faster and instantly. And that's the job to be done for Orem. So we work on the back end to make that experience seamless. And our single unified API unlocks access to all the different payment rails here in the U.S., including, and I think importantly, the newest ones, RTP, ACH, same-day ACH, wires, and now FedNow. So, Torell, I think I'm tempted to sort of throw this question to you first. I mean, Stripe is obviously an awesome company that's achieved a huge amount over the past few years. But it's interesting that here Stripe is acquiring sort of an American payment orchestrator because, you know, Stephanie was saying in that clip, it can be tough for Americans to make payments and real-time payments are actually quite complicated in the States in a way that's sort of baffling to Europeans in very different systems.

46:21What do you think of this acquisition by Stripe? We don't know how much it was for, but do you think this is an interesting move? I do, and hard to not get excited often when Stripe moves on something. But the particular thing that I'm interested in is what you said earlier, which is I think there really is still a pretty egregious divide between even parts of the world in terms of when do you get reliably an instant payment into your consumer or bank account. And I think the U.S. in some ways is plagued by that for a number of reasons. There's still, I think the stat is over 50 % of business transactions still happen by check.

46:59Some strange things like that. But what's happened here is you've now got something that's, the two reasons this is interesting to me is one, it gets that instant experience closer to the consumer and the business. But second, it also positions Stripe in a way that they are getting advantages from infrastructure, like you said, because this orchestration that they're doing is bringing together a number of ways payment rails and a number of rails for you to be able to push out payments instantly. And so with that, you're going to have, in a sense, a more valuable way to do this because you can do it across multiple rails.

47:41And it somewhat disrupts the fact that you have to rely on your card for all of these experiences, right? And that negates, you know, I would say there's a pretty big credit card culture in some parts of the world and not so much in others. And this just democratizes that and kind of puts things in a more defensive mode to do with that category or mode of transacting, which is interesting. Yeah, definitely. James, I'd love to bring you in on the acquisition and the increasingly acquisitive nature of Stripe. Because there was a time when a lot of fintechs were sort of collaborating with each other and partnering with each other like you're doing with Monzo.

48:25And yet, actually, we're starting to see these sort of the big fintechs really starting to sort of hoover up quite a lot of the smaller fintechs and sort of really start to become not conglomerates, but, you know, they're just they're buying capabilities. So rather than partnering, they're buying. Do you think that's a valid shift that I'm seeing that we're seeing sort of some of the sort of smaller fintechs just getting acquired by the bigger fintechs? The bigger fintechs are sort of gradually sort of consolidating the market. Do you think that's a fair observation? Yeah, I think in Stripe's case, it definitely is.

48:59And I think it's super interesting if you look at their acquisition strategy. It seems less about capturing market share with their existing product, but more how do they broaden their product to ensure that they've got kind of competitive edge across all segments. So whether that's the kind of on-off ramp with Bridge or like instant payments with Oram, like I think the fact that they're doing that to enhance their product is an interesting view on it rather than, you know, just trying to, I guess, be more dominant in the space. I think that's right, isn't it? Stripe's always looking for what else can we do for our existing customers?

49:31How do we make our existing products better? Or what new products or new capabilities can we add? Yeah, I think that's great. Neil, what did you think of this? Do you think this is exciting? I think it's exciting. But as an American who lives in the UK, I'm absolutely baffled at the way money moves in the US. So my first thought was, is this really a thing? Because as you know, we move money all over here. But you know, as Clara was saying, we've had to, we had to pay some people in the US and they only take checks. And we were like, can we not give you a bank? And they just, they just don't get it.

50:04So, you know, Stripe's obviously taking over the world. I think they're doing the sort of, you know, they're going to get so big that maybe the regulator is going to go, is there some anti-competition? But they're absolutely seeing the future. But I was talking to someone about this today and it just seems like there's a huge opportunity in the u.s like we all enjoy the pleasure of moving money seamlessly over here and it's just crazy that you can't do that in the u.s though and i guess that's part of what oram has been trying to do is trying to try to help as as you're saying build those rails to make it easier um to move money and of course sometimes you think oh does it really matter if the money doesn't move real time but actually when it comes to getting paid two three days later and banks sitting on your money, that can make an enormous difference.

50:51Well, absolutely. And what the founder on the recording said, you know, half of the country can't pay for a thousand pound expense. It's similar in the UK. And that's, again, like Credit Spring exists to solve that problem. We're really proud. We actually use Revolut, but we do instant dispersal. So when someone tries to borrow, someone logs into their account, borrows the money's in their account before they even have time to check it. And we think that's like one of the sort of magic moments that they love. because no one's used to that sort of speed. But it's so important. When people need money, they need it now, not in a few days.

51:23Clarelle, this must be familiar with Pipe, because, of course, small businesses, particularly businesses that serve other businesses, the biggest challenge in life is late payments from their customers. So you must see and hear this a lot from your customers of just that flow of payments. Undoubtedly, and it's exactly as Neil's described. And then when you think about the business segment, even more in terms of the cycle they go through on an ongoing basis, whether it be they're doing physical goods or they have a services business, there are things that they're trying to inject into their business to create revenue.

51:59And there's a lag on which that revenue actually becomes real. So if you put a product on Amazon, you have to advertise it, you have to ship it somewhere. And even that alone, the touch points in there of how money comes in and out of your business, You need to close those gaps so that you're able to actually spend on the advertising and spend on the supplies. And so it's multiple points of pain, to be honest, if you want to put it that amplifies is my point, which is part of the reason why what we're doing actually right now and part of my journey in the next 18 months is to actually try to turn that into a data science problem, which is, can I figure out the operations of that business and match it to the sales?

52:41and try to figure out you're going to run out. You're going to run out. So I'm going to help you here and I'm going to close that gap for you. I can see your payroll comes in on the 27th and your purchase orders tip and coming on the 2nd. I'll give you$4 ,000. It's not even an application. It's there for you. That's very powerful. And that's definitely coming. I think there's a race on to see who can deliver that most effectively to small businesses. And I guess Stripe may be in that race. Let's see. But yes, Stripe is certainly becoming a very dominant player. Okay, now for a quick look at one more newsworthy story this week that we don't have time to cover in full, but we think you'll find just as interesting, which is that Sam Altman fears an AI-enabled fraud crisis.

53:32Speaking at a Federal Reserve conference in Washington, D.C. on July 22nd, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman expressed urgent concern over the rising risk of AI-powered fraud. Altman criticized financial institutions that are still using voice prints to verify identity for large transactions, describing it as crazy because AI can easily defeat such systems. He warned of a significant impending fraud crisis, noting that generative AI can create near-perfect voice and video deepfakes that can bypass existing security measures. He urges the financial industry to abandon outdated authentication methods, invest in new verification systems, such as proof-of-human technologies, and collaborate, especially across institutions and the Federal Reserve, to strengthen defenses.

54:23And I think he's absolutely right. it's frightening how quickly AI systems have been able to impersonate people, impersonate their voices, impersonate them on video. And that does invalidate a whole load of security measures that the financial services industry and other industries have implemented over the past decade to try and authenticate humans. And so the entire industry does need to rethink how can we authenticate people in new and different ways that artificial intelligence can't fool? Okay, let's move on to our final story. So young people are calling for change, as young people tend to do.

55:1384 % of kids and teens in the UK want to see financial education on the new national curriculum. So this comes from a survey by GoHenry of British children, which found that 84 % of them wanted more financial education in schools, which was equal to or surpassing the importance of maths, English, and science. Not sure what that says. And 68 % of 18-year-olds fear leaving school without money skills. Research by GoHenry highlighted that early financial education pays off with long-term dividends. Children who receive more education earn more as adults, start more businesses, have lower unemployment, and contribute more, projected to be adding around another 200 billion pounds to the British economy by 2050.

56:02Sounds like a lot of money, but I suppose that's over a long amount of time. James, let's come to you first. I'm slightly surprised by them saying they want, children saying they want more of it. I'm not perhaps so surprised that they say it's more interesting than maths. What do you think of this? Yeah, I think it's really interesting. GoHindra, actually, a customer of ours, we power their junior ISA proposition, which is kind of a children's investment account. So yeah, always super interested in their take. But I think particularly on financial education, it's something that I'm super passionate about.

56:34In the UK, you get taught about all sorts of things, you know, whether it's kind of sexual education or relationships or mental health but financial education is just completely missing from the curriculum and I think it's super damaging to children. I mean the number of people who have no understanding of a mortgage or interest or a credit card and how these things actually work is I guess I think super concerning and I think it leads to really bad customer outcomes. It's not hard to imagine that you've got credit card companies that typically target young people as they turn 18, targeting them with credit cards, they run up loads of debt.

57:09And that's through complete lack of understanding. And so I think as an industry and a society, we've got to try and do better here. And I think financial education is a great place to start. Love it. What do you think, Neil? I agree 100%. But you know, we're very much in the space, we're trying to promote financial education. We recently launched something called the Learning Academy and have like 50 ,000 people on it, but it's hard, right? If we're honest, financial education is not super exciting. So I'm surprised that 84 % of the kids said that, but I do think they said they'd rather do that than math, right?

57:40But, you know, the way we approach it, it's sort of about like bite-sized tips and sort of common sense and logic, heuristics, I guess, instead of saying, read this long blog about how you're supposed to save. Everyone knows they should save. Everyone, But like what James says, we see the what goes wrong when you don't have financial education. And in this country, there's this sort of cycle of you go into you have a student overdraft. It's free. The second you leave school, it starts being expensive. You're trapped. Then you have that first credit card you don't know. And all the lenders are doing all the tricks to basically extract money from you.

58:18And I'd put the BNPL folks in this in this category, too. So it's very easy to take advantage of someone, let's say, right? And I think without that education, that's how we can play defense against that. But I think people need to just know the basic tips, right? You know, interest rates are always going to be hard, right? Everyone knows they always need to save, but how can I save, right? Or what should I be looking for when I try to take out a loan? You know, the way we solve that at CreditSpring is we remove the interest rate and we just charge a fixed fee. So people sort of understand that.

58:50You know, it's a multi-pronged thing. I think the government needs to lead the charge here. It absolutely should be in school. But you know, with my kids, so like my seven year old, she's always wanting to make loom bands and sell them outside. And I'm like, that's good education. She's learning how much it costs, you know, and then I get all nerdy about it and start talking about margins. But it's all, you know, I think it's just about embedding it in the culture. It's about the family, but we need the government to support such a big, big sort of challenge. Like I said earlier, the last time I heard, the financial literacy age is age 11 in this country.

59:23So we're basically financially illiterate. But yet we depend on finance. It's disappointing. Clarelle, you told us your children aren't school age yet. But do you want to see them being taught about finance in school? Or are you going to be doing that yourself? Undoubtedly. So I do have young kids, but frankly, I'm a great aunt. My sister's a lot older than me. So I've had three children around me and they're now in their 30s, if you can believe it. And I don't know if you know, again, I'll just, sorry, I'll quote this book again, but this is called Bank of Dad, if you've heard of this book before, The Dad Bank.

59:59And it inspired me with two things with my niece. One is to give her her allowance in a way that she would get interest on it. And two, allow her to spend it however she wanted so she could feel how much pain it is when you make the wrong choice. And I say that to you anecdotally because it's one of the most charming ways I've realized that part of the unlock here, in my opinion, is getting out of this kind of myth that you need to give your kids a bank account and that's how they'll figure it out. Or you need to give them, you know, not interest, just give them the money, give them the ways to figure out how to calculate it and make the mistake.

1:00:37Right. And you need to start, you can do that very, very early. In fact, I could probably do it, you know, at four or five for my kids and they wouldn't know the concept. So I think what GoHenry's up to and probably James, what you're beginning to see now as well, is that you can get in at a much earlier stage in these kinds of lessons and kind of practically let them have that mindset of I'm going to test and try, which is just such a healthy one, and gamify it a bit, you know. I'm actually just also so curious why they're self-volunteering for this education. It might be that you just see there's so much to be had in the world.

1:01:12I don't know, but it's a good sign. Nice. Well, that's a great way to wrap up today's Fintech and Sider News. So thank you so much to the three of you. You've been absolutely brilliant. I've really, really enjoyed today's conversation. Where can people who are listening find out a bit more about you and your companies? Clarelle, where can people find out a little bit more about you and a little bit more about Pipe? Certainly. So you can definitely reach me directly and certainly on our website. And I'm very available on LinkedIn all the time. James, where can people find out a bit more about you and about Sekel?

1:01:47Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn too. So feel free to get me there. We're also running a bit of a webinar talking about our H1 today. So if you pop over to Sekel's LinkedIn page, you can find more details and sign up there. And Neil, where can people find out more about you and about CreditSpring? Well, just Google CreditSpring. And also, if you could spell my last name, you could Google that because there's not very many of us. But I'm also on LinkedIn. And as for me, Benjamin Ensor, you can find me on LinkedIn or you can find out what the team have been up to at 11fs.com. So thank you all so much for listening to today's Fintech Insider.

1:02:23Please do follow us on your favorite platform. And please do recommend us to a colleague or a friend. If you want to join the conversation, seek us out on social media. Just search for 11FS or Fintech Insider, or you can email us at podcast at 11fs.com. So thank you all so much, and goodbye.

1:02:47Saying how you feel out loud is terrifying. But that's what Hinge's new free audiobook, No Ordinary Love, is all about. It's a collection of real love stories about five couples that met on Hinge. The stories are written and read by Tembi Dintonhurst, Nicola Dinan, Curtis Garner, Raven Smith, and Rufy Thorpe. I, Hunter Harris, wrote and read the foreword. The audiobook's out now. Give it a listen.

1:03:17I'm not giving up. I am selling the building. The final season of FX's The Bear. The restaurant is flooded. Everything's either gonna be okay. No! Or not. We are outgunned and we are outmanned. We have each other. FX's The Bear, the final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney+.