987: News: Revolut go after US banking licence, record breaking raises in the UAE, and is Klarna's IPO back on track?

26:13Ross Gallagher:I mean, that's a really important point, Brian. You know, it's not just the moral imperative. We're all feeling this now in our pockets every day, every week, every month. Yeah, and we've really noticed that at Kogo. So we've been working with banks for five years to bring carbon tracking solutions to their customers. and that was very much a carbon focused proposition and you know that works really well for a subset of customers who are carbon conscious and they want to track their carbon footprint in their spending and you know by their spending and actually if you're if you're a NatWest customer in the UK then you know you can you can still do that you can still use our solution via the NatWest mobile app to look at your carbon footprint on a day-by-day basis but it's a limited proposition to those customers who are engaged in climate who are thinking along those lines what what is so interesting about this home energy space is that you can take a customer through the entire journey and not mention climate once in the entire thing you know it starts with a cost saving so yeah so the way we're we're pitching it to to the banks is yes you've got you've got carbon conscious customers coming in via the carbon experience and that can start with the energy transaction appearing in your transaction feed.

27:29You know, we can calculate the carbon footprint of that, and we can talk to you about your ability to reduce that carbon footprint. But separately, there are customers who are, yeah, as you say, just looking at the cost. And that's the same conversation there. You know, you can cut your electricity bill by, your energy bill by two, three thousand pounds a year. And that conversation then continues all the way through to the retrofit without ever having to mention the carbon footprint. I think that's the remarkable thing about this is the opportunity here. as the technology, the electrification technology, you know, really accelerates and we're seeing, you know, huge gains in efficiency.

28:01The reduction in cost of solar panels, the ability to, you know, charge your car from your own solar panels and then basically drive for free. You know, this is a level of experience in our lives that I think a lot of people haven't realized yet just how profound and exciting that's going to be. So yeah, we're in an early adoption stage at the moment, But I think it's absolutely on the banks to propel us into the steeper part of the adoption curve and see that flood of people, you know, come through the door and capitalize on that benefit from it.

28:33Ross Gallagher:Yeah. A level of experience, I think the way you described it, you know, a level of independence. But I think you're right, people, you know, people probably haven't quite comprehended yet. To the point, Brian, just about the adoption curve, how damaging is it that, you know, banks sort of almost on massive with withdrawn from the net zero banking alliance in the UK, you know, lots of the US banks started to sort of roll back some of their sort of greener policies in the run up to the Donald Trump inauguration, you know, through that lens. How damaging is that? Yeah, I mean, there's, with hindsight, we could say there's a reason that we're not pushing the US market first.

29:20And we can all feel very smug about that in Koga at the moment. But no, just a quick explainer on this. So yeah, at the beginning of the year, we began to see the mass exodus of US banks from the Net Zero Banking Alliance. And there's some big names in there. It's a long list and there's some big names. The first big international bank to go was HSBC and then Barclays very recently as well. I think the first thing I'd say is, people sort of missed this from the list. Triodos have also dropped out. Now, Triodos, for anybody who doesn't know, is pretty much the darling of the green finance world, you know, can do no wrong.

29:55Now, their stated reason for dropping out is because they felt like the commitment to being watered down, which is not what Barclays has said. Barclays has said more that it's no longer worth being there because, you know, nobody else is there. They're sitting in an empty room, which, even if you look at the list, isn't entirely believable. but I guess with Triodos dropping out as well it just does raise the question of just how much emphasis do we do we put on the Net Zero Banking Alliance versus the bank's individual targets and their commitments we're not seeing any change on the ground yet with our existing clients and the conversations we're having with our prospects we will be the first to be holding feet to the fire if anybody begins to waver but actually I'm optimistic and my optimism comes mainly from the degree of sort of institutional memory already baked into the carbon accounting system, financed emissions as a concept is just not going anywhere anytime soon.

30:50It would be such a huge international radical change to the carbon accounting system. And because, as we've talked about, the alignment with commercial value, I just don't see it's in the bank's interests to back away from this. And just, I guess, as a personal anecdote, I happen to be trying to get a mortgage at the moment. I'm dying to look at my phone and see what's been going on in the last couple of hours. And I asked our mortgage broker to choose our mortgage provider based on who was offering the most generous green grants, because I knew that we will be electrifying our new home in the coming years.

31:25And as it happens in the UK at the moment, that's Barclays. So from where I'm sitting, we're still feeling pretty confident, even if it's not a good look when it hits the news.

31:36Ross Gallagher:No, it's a brilliant perspective. It's easy to look at those types of headlines and think, oh, now everything's falling away and we're going in the wrong direction. But it's good to hear your optimism and that that's not necessarily the case. All right. On that note, we are just going to take a quick pause and we'll be back with you very shortly.

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32:29Ross Gallagher:Hear that? That's now Crispy and McCrispy Strips meeting creamy Caesar sauce. Sounds extra crispy. Caesar sauce at McDonald's for a limited time.

32:47Ross Gallagher:Before we dive back into the news, I wanted to tell you about another Fintech Insider Insights episode you won't want to miss. This week, we're joined by someone who truly operates at the crossroads of regulation and innovation, Colin Payne, Head of Innovation at the FCA. You're likely familiar with the FCA, the Financial Conduct Authority, one of the UK's leading financial regulators. But how much do you really know about the role they play in shaping innovation across the industry? And more importantly, the man leading that charge. In this episode, we explore the FCA's brand new AI Sandbox Initiative and hear directly from Colin about his vision for restoring the UK's innovation mojo.

33:26Ross Gallagher:It's a fascinating conversation that had David Breer buzzing, and we think he will be too. The episode is out now, just scroll down to the podcast right below this one. And now back to the news. Our next story comes from TechCrunch with a headline, AI-powered fintech Alain raises $48 million, one of the largest Series A rounds in MENA. The raise comprised of primary and secondary funding, making it one of the region's most substantial Series A investments in fintech. Founded in 2022 by ex-McKinsey Consultants, Alain has positioned itself as a leading AI-powered spend management platform in the Middle East.

34:07Ross Gallagher:The platform uses AI-driven automation, including receipt matching, VAT extraction, and reconciliation to free up more than 1.5 million hours of finance team labor to date. the company is already profitable generating around 10 million dollars in revenue from a 5 million dollar prior investment highlighting strong capital efficiency um ruth look i'll i'll come to you first on this one um how interesting is the middle east right now from an investor's perspective like last week we had a story about um the uae sort of leapfrogging the uk as a you is sort of on its IPO return, primarily, though, driven by the$2.2 billion Binance deal.

34:55Ross Gallagher:But this, again, is just another tick in the box for the Middle East. Yep, it looks like it's cooking. I think if you think about these markets where infrastructure lags behind maybe some more traditional focus markets for venture capital like the US or the UK or Europe, and there are a lot of opportunities. And there's also a little bit of a playbook for building these really successful companies. I mean, I don't think that this is coincidental where we've just seen this week big news from Ramp. You know, why not kind of rocket internet it and build some copycat companies in a region that is lacking infrastructure?

35:39It sounds like a great idea.

35:41Ross Gallagher:No, agreed. Totally agree. Brian, again, I know the Middle East is a market that you're looking at and you're interested in. I mean, you know, I guess you've got that sort of real top-down mandate coming from government. You know, if we look at sort of Saudi Arabia, for example, their Vision 2030 really wanting to diversify the economy away from oil and gas. And I suppose the capital that's available to startups scale-ups, people looking for an exit in this market, I guess it's not really a surprise that we're starting to see some real activity here. Yeah, exactly. And it's a region of the world that has a lot to do on this and a lot of potential as well.

36:34The thing that I'm actually most interested in in this story is the, so one of our existing products is, you know, carbon accounting i've talked about the consumer side of that but we we provide that for businesses as well um so um the you know the the ability here to be pulling out uh using ai to sort of automate the the receipt matching and get that extra granularity of detail in the spend is is just that that's a huge uh boost to the ability to accurately carbon footprint so i'm yeah i'm looking at this from two angles i'm looking at the the energy in the region for um no pun intended for these types of scale apps and working in this area, but also just the technology that's coming out and the opportunity to get better data and more granular data flowing into the carbon models.

37:23Yeah, love that.

37:25Ross Gallagher:Jasper, what sort of struck you when you read this story? What kind of stood out for you? Well, the first thing that struck me was just in the intro paragraph. I have a past career, not at McKinsey, but in consulting kind of similar to that and have that experience of trying to use my corporate Amex when traveling abroad and just not being able to connect the dots, you know, to end up spending a weekend every week or, you know, about four hours going through and uploading all of the receipts. You know, I think it's something that although there are, to a risk point in other places that have some of this infrastructure already.

38:12There are lots of providers who are making this easier. It's still, I think you have most companies are not taking advantage of all of these spend management tools. And I look forward to a future world where the traveling consultant can finally rest

38:35Ross Gallagher:when it comes to uh receipts yeah i mean anything that cuts that um that that administrative burden right and just kind of lets you get on with um with the the stuff that it is that you're uh you're passionate about and that you want to do i think is a is a win in my book right and this this feels like um an ai use case that just makes sense right um i guess another um another thing um ruther sort of stood out for me is you know so they launched in the uae they've already expanded to saudi arabia they're profitable and now this big raise i mean it kind of speaks to a level of ambition here right yeah it's kind of like what's next because you know profitability while great for uh kind of you know lifestyle business is not the aim of an early stage company and so clearly if they're raising capital, they raised it on the story of making investments in sort of new things.

39:36A lot of what we're talking about today, you know, both Revolut and eventually this kind of Klarna news really speaks to the deepening of value propositions and the kind of acquisition of infrastructure by fintech companies to become more valuable and to make a play for more traditional companies ultimately. And so, you know, it'll be interesting to see if if these companies in the MENA region follow this path and follow it more quickly, because the path has certainly been laid down by, let's call it incumbent fintechs and other markets.

40:09Ross Gallagher:It is so interesting though, Ruth, because, you know, if we look at, you know, some of the raises in the region in sort of Q1, you know, Tabby was the largest at$160 million, and then a couple around the sort of like$50,$30 million. and then already in Q3 we've seen some like a real uptick right I mentioned the Binance deal and a couple of others you know I think it's easy if you look at this from the outside to kind of go oh this is an anomaly it's a flash in the pan but actually if any region sort of knows how to like really accelerate these types of things then it is the Middle East so do you think this is indicative of like a wider trend well it's sort of what you were talking about before with looking at the kind of stock markets there and creating possibilities for flotations.

40:59Ultimately, the venture capital market is going to be as mature as the liquidity market in the region. And that's why we've always seen such a great interest in the U.S. market for venture capital, because there are, you know, acquisitive companies that are in a position to pay high prices for startups. And there's also, you know, a very liquid IPO market, which has, you know, really been in a bull market environment for almost 20 years. So we can really understand why it's a great place to build businesses. And I think that if we, you know, we are seeing sort of baby steps toward maturity in this market.

41:37And part of that is because we're seeing more investor activity, We're seeing more opportunities for late-stage funding. It's my assumption that we'll see more happening on the IPO scene, albeit, you know, not as vibrant as maybe some other mature markets, but certainly indications that there are liquidity opportunities and then acquisitions in the region, which will, you know, if that does continue at pace, we will see a maturation of the venture capital environment.

42:08Ross Gallagher:Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more. Sure. And Brian, final word to you on this one. What about, you know, you mentioned the benefits of AI when it comes to, you know, carbon accounting and everything that you said. What about the prospect of the Middle East becoming a real leader in that sort of green energy space? Yeah, it's such potential. I mean, just like the, obviously, the amount of sunshine there, which when you look at the, just comparing the stats between New Zealand, where ASB have launched and the payback period on a set of solar panels, and then trying to apply that to the UK market, where it takes a number of extra years just to get enough sunlight to get that payback.

42:44I was talking to somebody from Middle East Bank just a few days ago, and the vision of a solar panel on every roof or even on public buildings and so on, collective energy, it's just huge there. Yeah, needs huge investment, needs the same problems we have here, consumer demand as well as central government incentives. but yeah, it needs to happen and it's going to happen because that price point has been reached out and it's almost just the market sort of waiting to wake up to that and catch up to that before we see that Soda's really going to take off there. Nice.

43:21Ross Gallagher:All right. I'm going to move us on to our next story. This one comes from Finextra with a headline, Klarna considers autumn IPO revival. Klarna is preparing to formally restart its US IPO in September or October 2025. After pausing earlier in the year, due to tariff-driven market disruption. The firm is targeting a$15 billion valuation and plans to raise around a billion dollars as initially planned for its March filing. Klarna is now operating with an electronic money institution or an EMI license from the UK regulator, enabling expansion into full banking services. In 2024, Klarna generated$2.8 to$2.81 billion in revenue, up around about 24%, and achieved its first net profit of around about$21 million, reversing losses from prior years.

44:11Ross Gallagher:The company recently secured high-profile deals with DoorDash, Stripe, Walmart OnePay, eBay, JPMorgan Chase, and Apple Google Pay, strengthening global reach ahead of its IPO. Jasper, I'm going to come to you first on this. I mean, obviously, when they were planning for their IPO earlier in the year and then of course the the the announcement around the tariffs and it got completely derailed they were they were very unlucky um but uh yeah what's what's your sort of reaction to uh this this big sort of fintech coming to ipo in the us well i you know i'm sure that ruth will have a strong opinion on this as well but you know i think that there's a point of view in a sense in the community in the us that um you know to to a large extent uh fintech is is back.

45:04And we see that reflected in the IPO market. You know, I think this is people point to the Chime and Circle IPOs earlier this year as evidence. And I think it's something that we're all very happy about.

45:20Ross Gallagher:Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Ruth, come to you, get your thoughts. So many thoughts here. I've heard a bunch of different vectors. One, great, this will be so exciting. And I think we've seen, you know, as Jasper said, there's some really dynamic IPOs that have happened and, you know, the big ones that we're all conscious of. And then even, you know, not in the fintech, but in the tech space, the recent Figma IPO, in the insurance space, the Accelerant IPO, just, you know, really demonstrating investor appetite for new propositions. And, you know, this would be, I think, if I were Clara and I'd be thinking really seriously about this, obviously, because it feels like there is appetite, investor appetite at this point.

46:05You know, things can always change. We do not know what's going to happen tomorrow. And so I am not a betting woman at all on the macro because it is so incredibly volatile and dynamic right now. But for the moment, feels like the prospect is nigh. The other thing I think is really cool is that the idea of going into this banking license and thinking about other propositions demonstrates, and I think just the partners that you, you know, listed demonstrate that there are more viable open banking programs than perhaps people are really thinking of. There's been a sense that like, first of all, open banking has really stalled and that the kind of ownership and sharing of consumer data, you know, feels a little bit impossible in the U.S.

46:55and maybe that's changing despite the fact that we're having some, you know, lack of regulatory guidance here. I really believe that we need to have solutions around open banking to assist with creating a secure data sharing environment and to allow third parties to safely use consumer data in order to provide better customer experiences. And I think that we're seeing that starting to happen. I think one of the things that we have had in the U.S. has been a fairly stable environment where you have, you know, digital banks or some digital interface that can do some of this work. And the question I've asked as an investor is like, how many great programs are there?

47:39Like, how much need is there in the market? And what I'm what I'm really feeling like is that there is more need than capacity at this point, which means there are really cool potential investment opportunities. And so just everything about this story is really exciting to me.

47:55Ross Gallagher:And I guess this being like a large later stage raise, Ruth, probably freeze up some, sorry, exit, probably freeze up some capital that can then be reinvested into some of those earlier stage startups, right? Yeah, this is going to create liquidity for a lot of people. I think one of the interesting things that's happened in venture capital over, you know, since sort of the Gen AI boom is that we're also seeing private companies make fairly large acquisitions of private companies. So, you know, all bets are a little bit off. Like, I think that there's, for me, I remain excited about really big market opportunities, no matter what, because I think that there's always investment for great companies and that actually potentially building in more capital efficient manner can yield better returns, both for investors and founders.

48:43So, you know, I don't feel super rah-rah about just dumping money into any project. What I'm really excited about is the signaling around this indicates to me that there are more interesting, innovative projects to be built. And, you know, is Klarna, are Klarna investors, potential investors in those projects? They probably already have the money to invest anyway. Is Klarna a potential acquirer? They probably could already acquire anyway. way. So it might not change things tremendously. But again, going back to my earlier points around emotion and market signaling, you know, any positive IPO is a good thing for fintech.

49:18Yeah, I completely agree.

49:21Ross Gallagher:Brian, what was your sort of reaction to this story? So I'm going to be the sobering voice of negativity in the room. I agree with many things that you're saying there, Ruth, you know, the fund freeing up the sort of the other projects that this indicates a possible, you know, exciting. But overall, for me, I just can't shake Planner's intrinsic, how it's intrinsically tied to modern consumerism and the extent to which this business model both encourages and relies on in a sort of a symbiotic cycle and that whether it's fast fashion or fast whatever. So yeah, from an economic point of view, you know exciting from a climate point of view uh klarna is not the future that i would hope for us so yeah that's my my sobering take on this story unfortunately fast pizzas yeah that's right and and look you know of course um there have always been question marks about the the fast fashion side of things and of course the impact on the environment and then of course that it's intrinsically linked as well with, um, consumer debt, um, and the impact on consumers.

50:33Ross Gallagher:Um, Jasper, I'm interested on, you know, I mean, we, we mentioned a lot of brands, um, when we ran through, um, the, the sort of overview of the story, right? So door dash stripe, JP Morgan chase, like big brands, they've also sort of announced in their most recent figures that delinquency rates, um, have declined. Does it almost feel like Klein are in a stronger position to IPO now than they were maybe when they had initially set the ball rolling back earlier in the year? Yeah, I think it's hard to say maybe without having, you know, access to all of the indicators that they have internally for their own credit exposures.

51:13I mean, you know, I think it's something where when you're looking at these really, these short term, they're more liquidity products than they are credit products. You know, they have access to a lot of consumer data that helps them really understand what the, you know, what likely delinquency profiles are going to be when they're looking at a product that only has a lifetime of a few months or a few weeks. And, you know, I think that's something where they will have only gotten stronger in terms of, you know, understanding what consumer behavior and consumer repayment looks like. I think anytime they add a new vertical, you know, I'd be curious whether the repayment economics for the DoorDash partnership might be different than some of the others that they have.

52:06But, you know, I think they're always accumulating data and they're always sharpening their models and they're always getting better at what they do.

52:13Ross Gallagher:Yeah. And Ruth, look, I'm going to give you the final word on this because it just makes sense. How do you think the market's going to react to this? I mean, you made the point earlier on that it's still a very volatile time, but do you think they can be optimistic? I mean, don't know, right? I'm not going to predict. But I think all things being equal, I do think that this is a better moment for them. I think that a lot of the like Trump terror volatility stuff feels like it's in the cake. Is that going to kind of change over the course of the summer? You know, possible. So, you know, that's why I refuse to make any predictions.

52:50This is like a part of a bigger macro story. But we've had as far as Klarna goes, the business is very well known to investors. The data is out there. You know, there's a lot to like. There already are a bunch of kind of adjacent revenue streams and vectors for growth beyond the core lending. And we have seen some quite successful IPOs. So, you know, as today, you know, I think it looks positive and a positive IPO, of course, will continue to have this sort of virtuous cycle generally for the broader fintech scene. But again, we're kind of in a bigger macro environment that is, you know, feels pretty unpredictable.

53:34Ross Gallagher:I think it's really smart not to predict because, I mean, who would have predicted the whole tariff fiasco last time out, right? They completely derailed the whole thing. Yeah, who would have predicted the whole tariff fiasco and it having like zero impact on the equities market? So, you know, it's like, it's very difficult to sort of to say what's going to happen next, but all things being equal, I can completely understand why this is a news story this week. Yeah, couldn't agree more. All right, excellent. Now we're going to move on. Just a quick look at one more newsworthy story this week that we don't have time to cover in full, but we think you will find it just as interesting.

54:11Ross Gallagher:Now, this one comes from FinExtra, with the headline, Hong Kong to issue first stablecoin licenses in early 2026. Hong Kong's Legislative Council has approved the stablecoins ordinance setting up a regulatory framework for issuing fiat reference stablecoins. From that date, the Hong Kong Monetary Authority, or the HKMA, will start accepting license applications and enforce the new rules. Despite applications potentially opening in August 2025, HKMA expects to grant the first stablecoin licenses in early 2026, and only a handful are likely to be approved at first. Hong Kong seeks to cement its status as a major digital asset hub in Asia via this regulatory framework.

54:57Ross Gallagher:I guess there's a couple of things on this for me. Look, I think stable coins is a movement. First of all, I don't think it's going away. And I think this is another big step in that direction. But I think Hong Kong is also such an interesting market in this space. When you look at things like the things that HSBC was doing around tokenizing physical gold and all of that sort of stuff. I just think it's super, super interesting. We have to be really quick on this one, but Ruth, I'm going to come to you for like 10 seconds of thoughts because I know this is a space you're particularly passionate about.

55:27Yeah, stable coins in Hong Kong, what could go wrong?

55:30Ross Gallagher:Perfect, nailed it. All right, and finally, this one comes from Finnextra with the headline, coinbase's uk musical ad hits a nerve sparking debate from crypto fans to founders um coinbase has released a two-minute satirical musical advert in late july 2025 um mocking britain's economic struggles with visuals of leaking ceilings overflowing bins and 100 pound fish fingers while characters cheerfully sing everything is fine um the ad juxtaposes upbeat lyrics like we ain't got no troubles no reason to complain was bleak imagery reflecting cost of living pressures and social decline um the ad was blocked by clearcast uk's tv advert approval body for allegedly making unsubstantiated economic claims and missing mandatory crypto risk warnings now um trying to describe the ad in words doesn't quite do it justice i think if anyone hasn't seen the ad that's listening to this.

56:36I would say pause and come back, but go watch the ad

56:40Ross Gallagher:because it will really bring the whole thing to life. Ruth, again, I'll come to you first on this because again, this is sort of crypto based. It's interesting, isn't it? Because I think it's been banned on a technicality, a quite important technicality around warnings, messaging and all of that sort of stuff. But it's, as with anything that gets banned, I suppose it's probably just given it a whole heap of hype and a whole heap of oxygen that they wouldn't necessarily have intended. Yeah, I mean, there's been some sanction of, like, meme coin producers or folks who have, you know, like Kim Kardashian, people who have promoted various crypto projects, and they have been sanctioned because they weren't supposed to do that.

57:31You know, I would say that it's this kind of massive clash between really traditional advertising body or, you know, a political class, which feels like you can kind of ban things into non-existence. And then, you know, folks who are, you know, kind of crypto early adopters are now, you know, it's such a large percentage of the younger population who really believes in digital assets and crypto. I don't know that like a ban is a great way to confront those types of conflicts. I'm obviously not going to opine about the regulation that or the kind of broadcasting regulation that was breached. But it does feel like we live in an environment where there's an attempt by kind of the traditional elites to do away with discourse which challenges um these kind of you know traditionally held values and i don't know that that's gonna kind of change any minds no completely agree with you um i agree

58:36Ross Gallagher:with everything that you said um i think a much better approach might have been to um you know let them know what the the issues were that might have led to the ban and give them some time just to um address those issues but i think again i'm with you 100 you know i think um that ban culture i just fundamentally i don't think it worked um not least because you know fair enough you know there's the the uk's tv advert approval body but how many of the the the demographic that you just described are actually consuming those ads on tv versus um you know other digital media channels. Jasper, I don't know if being based in the US as you are, if any of this has made any sense to you.

59:20Ross Gallagher:I mean, I think it makes, you know, a lot of sense when you're in the UK and you're sort of immersed in, um, that sort of doom and gloom that I think we've talked about as we go through the, um, as we, as we've gone through the show, but is, is this, is this making any sense at all? And if not, I really apologize. You know, it may be alien, I think, to some in the U.S., but yeah, you know, and I think you pointed to, this sounds like just really a classic example of the Streisand effect, right? You try to bury something and you just put more eyeballs on it as a result. um you know i i think not maybe having all of the you know the the depth of the cultural context um i think i agree with everything that you and ruth have said you can't um uh obviously you know the disclosure laws the rules are it's incredibly important that everybody follows those but if what you're doing is trying to um to block the use of uh of negativity or sort of culturally discouraging images or stereotypes, that's always going to be an uphill battle.

1:00:39And I'm sure that Coinbase and any agencies they're working with have done their research in terms of what's an appealing ad. That's for sure.

1:00:50Ross Gallagher:And look, I think it's important to say, the ad doesn't explicitly promote specific crypto products it obviously promotes coinbase as a brand um brian i'm i'm sort of gonna come to you because you've given us like one very positive and optimistic um viewpoint on this uh on this show already about the the sort of direction that we're heading from a a sort of green banking and carbon footprint and all of that and then you've given us a more sobering um opinion on the uh the Kleiner story. What's your reaction to this one? Spin the wheel and see which side I come down on. I actually feel quite good about this.

1:01:37I think I'm bringing more positivity. I mean, yes, that's brilliant. So, you know, well done for that. The thing that's catching me out is like, how much was it down to the fact, I think part of the reason was they didn't include some like basic sort of crypto, So, you know, some small print, basically. And I'm like, you know, why not? And to what extent was the decision? And, you know, it was a ban for TV, but not an all-out ban. And yes, it's amplified it. But I think a couple of things. I think, firstly, the medium brings, it's part of the message, right? So what you see on TV, especially in the US, but in the UK, what you see on TV has a different weight to what you see online.

1:02:18And yes, that alters by demographic, of course but you know i think that's probably still a broad truth in that so i think that does still have an impact yes it then gets amplified online but it gets amplified in the context of that of that decision and and that itself is part of the messaging so yes we can all you know experience it think about it learn more about it begin to break out of these old paradigms as ruth was talking about but we can do that with just that little bit of caution a little bit of you maybe I should apply my own faculty to this and think about the implications of some of these new tech and new approaches.

1:02:55So yeah, overall, they made the right decision, I'm sure, because they have a bunch of rules that they follow. I think it's having a positive effect overall on the way the content has consumed.

1:03:05Ross Gallagher:I think that's absolutely fair. And as much as we might have said, look, you know, an alternative approach rather than banning it might be better. Of course, that doesn't undermine the fact that consumer protections are incredibly important, and especially as it relates to more complex and emerging financial products. Cool. All right. I think that wraps up today's FinTech Insider News. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Let's go around the room and just maybe you can tell us where people can find out a little bit more about you and your companies. Brian, let's start with you. Yeah, so online, Kogo.co, and on LinkedIn.

1:03:47Yeah, get in touch if you want to know more. Happy to chat.

1:03:50Ross Gallagher:Excellent. Thank you, Brian. Jasper, how about you? Yeah, I'm personally not very active on social, but you can find FS Vector on LinkedIn and at FSVector.com. Amazing. How about you, Ruth? So you can find me on LinkedIn, Ruth Foxblader, or you can follow me on Substack, Fox News. Amazing. All right. Thank you, guys. As for me, you can find me on LinkedIn. And if you want to find out a little bit more about 11FS, you can find us at 11FS.com. Thank you so much for listening to today's Fintech Insider. If you like what you heard, please make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast platform of choice.

1:04:26Ross Gallagher:And if you really like what you've heard, why not share the podcast with a colleague or friend? As always, if you want to join the conversation, find us on social media, just search for 11FS or Fintech Insider or email podcasts at 11FS.com. Thank you again and goodbye.

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