E101 - Fix These 4 areas to Unlock Your Full Potential | Ben Pakulski

0:00I remember sitting in my car for 20 minutes being like, I don't wanna go in. I'm going to do it. I don't want to do it. And eventually you're like, okay, now I can go. I know it's going to suck. But the more I think about it, the worse it becomes. He's an IFBB professional bodybuilder, the Mr. Olympia and the Arnold Classic placed in the top 10, three years running Ben Pakulski. What's going to serve you well as you age in business, in life, in marriage is the character you've developed along the way that is established through your hardest moments. So I was one of the biggest humans on the planet.

0:28They look at me now, like, oh, there's character there. There's wisdom there. And none of that came because of the muscle. It came because of the person that was willing to go through all those challenges and struggles to get there. People will have this wave of motivation and seem to stick to it for a couple of weeks. And very often something happens where they fall off and they find it difficult to get back. Did you find any common patterns or trends as to why people would fall off and lose motivation? So there's four areas that limit us. now before we jump into today's episode i just want to mention that this podcast is brought to you by me and everything that i have built to help you guys level up if you want to transform your physique build muscle lose body fat build strength then you have the thirst app this has everything inside that you could possibly need to get yourself in shape to hold yourself accountable as well i also have the digital playbook which is a step-by-step guide to help you guys build a following monetize the following and also build a strong personal brand is everything which i have done over the past nearly 10 years to allow myself to live a life of financial freedom and also geographical freedom i can basically do whatever i want life is good and i also have my newsletter which has been revamped where i'll share exclusive podcast insights my raw thoughts on business fitness and much much more so if you're interested about any of those check out the description you'll find the links to all of them let's get cracking with the episode what's up guys and welcome back to first things first we have the big man b pack in the building how you doing dude loving life living the dream it's funny we uh we meet again this is the first time we've met no yeah man we had some good times in dubai yeah a couple workouts in and grab some some grub i think the the first time was actually in nottingham when you were doing something with mark coles m10 And I actually, I showed up.

2:17I don't think I spoke to you much at that point. This was years and years ago when I was living in London. And then obviously we met in Dubai, I think it was 2019. We did a leg workout and trained strength and fitness. You made me wake up at like five in the morning or something to do an absolutely horrendous leg workout. I would do that. I'm a terrible human like that sometimes. And then there was another time, I think 2020, around the pandemic I think or just afterwards we filmed some content we did a mid-delk training session and also rear delts. Yeah and you're still looking incredible man, standing in great shape body feels good?

2:56Oh yeah feeling good I think now it's kind of got to the point where I can do the least amount of work possible in order to get maximum results. Yeah I think that's sort of the shift that often happens for guys later in life i always joke that you know before you're 30 you're training with your balls and after you're 30 you're trying to brains and like at some point you're like oh i can do this really effectively and still get the same or better results than i ever had before and that a lot of guys have to make that shift and they sometimes struggle doing the same old things um so hopefully your your message gets heard yeah and you uh you were absolutely massive at one point you uh what when was it when you were at your biggest you say um so my best was 2012 and 13 um those are my best placing so like biggest is is often not the objective right for many guys biggest is the objective for me it wasn't it was like i want to be the best so bigger wasn't always better it was like how do i add muscle proportionately um which is literally what sent me down this entire path of understanding the body learning mechanics um so my best was 12 and 13 my biggest i think was probably 2011 i was 283 on stage and about 510 which is big but my waist was still in check then um and then in 2012 and 13 at my highest placings but i also had my my two angels my children and then just shifted my priorities i no longer wanted to be the same person yeah i think you kind of you did what you needed to do and that's not like uh yeah the most sustainable thing to be doing to be that big no and i knew that right and so when i started bodybuilding i think i needed bodybuilding i grew up with a lot of trauma i grew up with a lot of insecurity um i lacked direction i lacked discipline um so bodybuilding was something that i needed to develop myself into the man that i knew i wanted to become um and then once i had accomplished the things i accomplished i was like yeah there's more for me out there i just know that like when bodybuilding ended my life began but i needed that i needed that work you know it's the so-called first mountain and then now i'm on the second is the first mountain was you know the development of self the pursuit of material goods and all these things that that most people just like spend their whole life grinding on that first mountain trying to find out who they are and accomplish something of significance and and then my what i say is now the second mountain is this i take the spotlight and i shine around on me instead of on the things that are outside of me right whereas i wanted to build muscle i want to get wealthy and all those things you accomplish some great things and then now you're like oh all this is empty and meaningless where where's the actual direction in life and for me that's the internal journey like how i become the type of man that i want to be in this world for my family for the world make an impact right rather than being selfish it's been inspiring to observe the change um i remember when i had my studio in newcastle and i was kind of getting into the like full-time personal training you were one of the guys that probably had the biggest impact on my approach thank you training both with my clients but also with myself i think you were you're the person that introduced the concept of tension like i'd never i never really thought about it when i'd been lifting weights for the first few years when i was training but the moment i started watching the videos that you were putting out on youtube like that really changed the game for me and how i would approach my sessions and what i was thinking about when i was doing uh each of my working sets yeah it's kind of it's funny now to think back but it's like i was kind of the og in that space yeah yeah um a lot of people have sort of taken it adapted it and created their own versions of it and oftentimes it's not a better version it's like a divergence away from what's actually effective but i credit everybody for you know doing their best and um trying to understand the body at a deeper level because it only makes everyone better It's funny because when I started my business in 2011, my goal was to be the catalyst for intelligent muscle building in the world.

6:51And I think we did that. I think we were certainly the catalyst. Now, this is huge contingent of YouTube stars and people over the world who are perpetuating some version of this intelligent muscle building, which is like learn your body first, optimize tension, select the word exercises, and make sure that you're as present as you possibly can. Because the opportunity is not in being mindless and gritting your teeth and running through the wall. the opportunity is how can i be as precise and specific as i can to get the most out of the least as you so eloquently said to start yeah what do you think of the the current state of the fitness content which is floating about on social media at the moment you know um i'm i'm just at the beginning of restarting my youtube um channel presence from 2014 maybe 15 to now i've basically taken a hiatus and I throw stuff out from time to time, but not really anything intentional.

7:42It just kind of like gets thrown out. Um, so I've, I've been watching a lot of the, the big names. I've been watching a lot of people with big followings and some of them are fantastic. And, and what I'm seeing though, is people are so fickle. Like if it's not highly produced and, you know, like scripted and like, you gotta have a cut every seven seconds, you lose people's attention so like good information is sort of being sorted against right so like certain people in the world will always want the best information but a really large contingent of the world is is selecting for attention span like if you don't have a seven second attend more than a seven second attention span people are out so that's really challenging as someone who's a creator to change how i approach my content for seven second second in intervals, I was like, whoa, this is interesting.

8:35So I like long form content, right? I'd rather sit here with you and have a great conversation about depth rather than breadth. You know, I think depth is rare. Breath is, you know, I think both are valuable. You know, the idea of being a deep generalist is great, but, you know, I love the deep conversation. I love the deep exploration. And most people just don't care enough or can't handle it. Yeah. like i've i've experienced this myself when i would go and shoot with one of my guys and we would specifically be shooting short form content and i'm trying to talk about or break down a topic that's quite complex in 20 to 30 seconds and it's like the most frustrating thing yeah and i almost have to dumb it down a little bit for you know the younger audience who are also watching yeah So I agree with you.

9:25I've always been a fan of the long form. But as you said, people's attention spans are just getting shorter. Yeah, it's a tough game to play because as creators, we want to be successful. We want to make money. We want to have impact. So we have to play the game. And we're getting away from who we are, our true selves, which is a tough thing to play because you start changing your content. You're literally changing who you are. You're changing the direction of your life. So still trying to find a balance. I don't know what that looks like, right? I'm literally just starting. I've been maybe creating content for like a month or something again.

9:57So just like getting in like, okay, how do I take this really complex thing and dumb it down to four bullet points that I can say in 30 seconds or 90 seconds. Like, I don't know. But I suspect over time that part of our brain will start to develop and it'll just be second nature. Now the question becomes, do you want that to be second nature? Were you thinking in these seven second snippets? We'll see. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Yeah. I think it can also help to work with somebody who just really understands the current state of social media so that, you know, you can both combine your skill sets and just, you know, dominate.

10:30I suspect some AI, if it doesn't already exist or will soon exist to say like, hey, here's my complex topic. Tell me how to say this in 90 seconds or less. And then you're like, you know, act as Mike Thurston. Say, tell me how to say this in 90 seconds or less. And like, here's the seven bullet points. Talk about these. Here's the hook. Talk about that. because there's obviously this like youtube format um but i suspect very soon if it doesn't already exist there'll be some ai that can take anything any video you've ever created and turn it into something that's like you know short form so i want to dive a little bit deeper into your early sort of businesses that you had and the success that they have experienced because one thing that i admire about you is you know your stuff when it comes to gym the science and training but also you're very dialed into the business side of things as well uh so what were the the early businesses which you started yeah so i just view myself as a builder now looking back on my life it's like to build stuff so like first you build your body and then you're like oh next logical thing is business so i i think i'm more as committed or more committed or more interested now in business than i ever was in fitness because it's just like it's this endless game that isn't ultimately taking away from your health like bodybuilding for me did.

11:43So the first business I created was out of necessity. So it was 2011. My girlfriend at the time got pregnant. I'm like, oh, I guess I'm having a child. And I was doing very well with sponsorships. But as you know, sometimes as an athlete, sponsorships can be very fickle. If you place poorly, if anything happens, boom, sponsorship's gone. And so in any second, I literally, my first contract ever, I was thinking I was making 8K a month. I was not even a pro yet. and uh you know they they paid me for six months in the seventh month they get a call and like hey man we can't pay you anymore it's just gone so you go from living like i'm making 100 grand as i was probably 24 or something 23 um i was like cool that's great zero you're like oh so that was a beautiful warning to say like hey you need to do something because my child's coming now i'm like i can't get in a situation where i don't have any money so i started this business i literally sat in a chair it's a funny story i bought a chair beautiful comfortable chair and i sat there for six weeks probably for 12 hours a day and i wrote a 220 page ebook by the time i was very heavy it was 310 pounds so by the time i was done that six weeks the chair was sideways because i was sitting there you know fall asleep in the chairs sat there all day so um by the time i was done i wrote an ebook which ended up being mi40 foundation which is like my foundational program which millions of people around the world have done i believe it thank you man appreciate it i mean it's funny because like i'll walk down the street in okinawa japan and everyone will be like oh ben pukoski I brought your program.

13:05And I'm like, God, I've been in the most obscure places. And so millions and millions of people have done that program. And that was probably the one that sort of started it all. And if anyone read any of the PDFs and books, that was sort of like, hey, here's how I approach training. And we did very well with that. And that sort of grew organically from 2011 to 2015. I didn't have to do anything because I had a good following and there was tons of word of mouth. And we just did really, really well. But eventually, like anything, it runs out. So So everyone's like, hey, what do I do next? So I created MI40 Extreme.

13:34So I was looking for new follow-ups. Because this, you know, no program is perfect. Programs are just situationally useful. Like, what's the context? So the program I created as MI40 Foundation was, what do I think could be most useful to the greatest number of people? And so I was like, well, this program is going to work for people if they do it. And they did it. And we got people got great results. And they liked the videos. So I created a follow-up, which was, at the time, the only thing I knew was harder. So I'm like, we'll make it harder. And harder is a progression model. and you know one version of harder is like time right so we can progress intensity four second negative yeah we can progress time right so i'm like okay let's let's progress time so let's slow these people down and that was a means of progression that worked and so everyone's like god this is that one so tend to sell probably even better than the original one so those two were um super successful and then from there started branching off into other things because as you'll understand um you know i love muscle building but what i realized is if i set the objective of if you were to hire me as a coach today, you say, Ben, you know, I want to build muscle.

14:34My objective is 100 % success. Like, I don't fail. So we're going to go at this together and we're going to achieve our goals. But yet you still have people who are falling short. You still have probably 50 % or more people who don't accomplish their goal because they fall off. I take that personally. So it allows me to start looking at why are they failing and how can I give them the success they're looking for? I take people's wins and losses very personally. like so if you come to me and i'm only getting 50 success rates and 50 of people are getting some results but not great results or you know 80 of the way there and they quit or they get distracted i'm like okay what do i need to do as a coach because i take that person i'm like that's not their fault that's my fault so what i need to do so well i started going into well is it brain chemistry so i studied brain chemistry and it's like is it hormones i studied hormones is it stress and recovery i studied that and so you're like finding all these different tools that if someone comes to you and go hey i'm not following through i don't have the motivation well motivation is not a motivation problem it's an energy problem right it's energy in progress so like i can solve that you know so my brain is always looking for like i don't take no for an answer type thing i'm like i'm gonna figure this out um so that's just branched out into you know a wide array of different arenas and performance and so you know people now see me as a performance guy so you know i work with professional athletes executives entrepreneurs as someone who can optimize performance and performance doesn't just have to mean as an athlete a lot of the guys that work with our executive and CEOs.

15:56So performance can be, what's your brain doing right now? How's your energy right now? How well are you tolerating stress, right? So we're looking at all those parameters of performance. So that's my primary focus now to answer your question is, I work with a lot of incredible men around the world, only men. No fault to ladies, but it's just, women are just a different breed. It's just so complex. So that's my primary focus. And then that I've expanded that to teach what I do in a certification. We're branching now more into medical longevity. So we're doing some like TRT medical telemedicine type stuff, but it's all sort of in the arena of this men's optimization.

16:33Did you find any common patterns or trends as to why people would fall off and lose motivation? Because I think it's safe to say realistically, if somebody wanted to get themselves in shape, like there's enough information out there for them to figure out some sort of a basic training program, clean up their diet and just do that for a reasonable amount of time. yet people will have this wave of motivation and seem to stick to it for a couple of weeks and very often something happens where they fall off and they find it difficult to get back into that routine again so i have two answers to the question they're sort of separate but related so there's four areas that limit us right so if you think of like we all have this what i call functional capacity like we can operate to the ceiling and no more right currently we can change the ceiling we all have a ceiling there's four areas that i think influence the ceiling first one is your physical ability makes sense second one is your energy third one is your ability to tolerate stress and the fourth one is your mindset so these four areas that if you can you can think like if i'm physically limited like if your knee is swollen you can't do the things you want it's going to limit you somehow right if you have a mindset that's limiting you like you're you have a ton of fear well then that's going to limit you if you're not resilient to stress, like stress happens and you go into a state of panic and overwhelm, that's not going to work.

17:51And then energy is the obvious one. Like if I double gendered today, everything you do will be easier and more effective. So those are sort of your four pillars of performance. And so the first thing I'm doing is I'm saying, well, which one, Mike, is limiting you? And so if we can start unlocking these four areas of performance, we can start giving people a higher ceiling. Because what happens so often is people will come in and be like, Ben, I want to lose 30 pounds. Cool. Easy. No problem. This is math. this is very easy but they can't do it and like oh you know i'm not able to get to the gym i'm not able to do the workout and i'm not able to do the diet well one of these four areas is limiting you if i improve one of them or improve all of them then your capacity goes up so you're like you know like think of a ceo they can reliably and predictably take on so much and fall through like oh yeah i know that if i give them a diet i give them a workout i give them whatever they're going to do it if i give them a task at work they can like these people are reliable like a navy CEO, like a CEO, super high functional capacity.

18:43Some people have a very low functional capacity. So if we objectify this idea of functional capacity, we'll just make these four things more effective. We improve our functional capacity. So that's massively changed my ability to be successful. So the first thing I address with people is we assess these four areas through something I call the human optimization scorecard. We create a scorecard. I'm like, hey, I need to know how you're doing these four areas. And if I can identify the bottleneck, we make immediate changes. The other half of that equation, why some people fail, is values. So if you've ever studied values, sometimes people will set goals that are out of alignment with their values.

19:17For example, if I value my family above all, and I set a goal to do something that's going to take away my time from my family, I'm more likely to fail because unconsciously I want to move in the direction of my values. So we all have a value hierarchy, a hierarchy in which we make decisions. So if I have a value hierarchy that is in one place and I set goals in another place, just because I haven't aligned goals and values, most people will fail. Not all, but most. So those two things are how I create 100 % success with the people I work with. It's like I can objectify your progress, right? So, and we do everything from studying genetics to studying blood, studying urine, studying stool, to doing all the testing.

19:56So we can optimize the internal physiology to optimize energy and recovery. So yeah, there's sort of a long, long-winded answer to the question. Which one of the four tended to be the most common? Depends on the niche. I'd say guys who get older or people who get older, it's energy. Because, you know, if you ever get to the gym, like, I don't have energy to train today. Like, I didn't have it there today. It just wasn't there. Like, okay, if I increase, and energy can be thought of in terms of amplitude and duration. Right? So if I have enough amplitude, I'm probably going to be able to run, sprint, jump, fight, train.

20:27If I don't have enough duration, it's more like, well, I get tired in my workout. Or at the end of the day, I'm super gassed. I can't keep going. So I'd say energy is a really big one, but you know, there's probably a million people out there going, well, mindset. Mindset is a really big one for me, right? So I would say like all of them can be limitations based on different people at different times. You know, I think physical capability for many people as well. Like, you know, if you think of the one thing that's probably the single most important thing for you to do in longevity, it's move well.

20:56Because moving well improves your brain, improves your energy, improves your resilience to stress. So it's hard to pick one. yeah i think um the the energy one is something which i've not struggled with too much i think one is the mindset one which was the most interesting to me it was my approach and always has been my approach i think ever since i started training when i was like 17 or 18 it's always been the priority each day like it's the thing which going to the gym comes above everything else and even when i'm traveling i will literally go out of my way even if it takes like half a day to find a gym and to go and train yeah yeah and that that's a mindset uh that hopefully you can transfer to your audience because like you when i when i landed a new place the first thing i'm gonna do is find a grocery store where i can buy glass bottles of water and organic produce generally and organic meat and like prioritize food and then prioritize training and then if you do that now your energy is greater your focus is greater your body feels better so your productivity in these other areas are greater and it's just what i call an operating system you land in miami first thing you do is find yourself some great food find yourself a gym i'm gonna guess i could be wrong but it's probably somewhere in that facility and most people don't many people are like i'm gonna go and grab a drink or i'm gonna go and grab some crappy food or i'm gonna go and take a nap and you're like hold on change the operating system and it takes energy it takes effort but the operating system is changeable and we're just like rewriting the software yeah so you're you're based in tampa how often are you traveling at the moment um as little as possible but way too much yeah yeah yeah because uh when you're traveling what would you say is the biggest struggle which you uh come face to face with um i don't know that i struggle with anything man like i think i've i've just found ways after all these years to figure it out like i know it's important right i put the first things first i'm like i know that if i have the energy, everything else will be easy.

22:55So for me, it's like, are you sleeping well? Are you hydrated? Are you nourishing your body well? Like at a base. So as soon as I land anywhere, I do the same thing. I literally, actually before I get there, I'll either have somebody send water and organic food to my Airbnb or hotel room. Or the first thing I do is like, I'm going to find an organic grocery store or a place where I can get glass bottles of water and organic food. Because I know that's the linchpin, man. For me, like if I have that, my mind is strong, my body is strong, my ability to tolerate anything is strong. So for people who are looking to optimize their health and weight, well-being, what would some of the main changes that you would advise these people make?

23:37Everyone's so different, Mike. I would say, you know, for me, it's energy. If I have the energy, everything else is easier. For some people, it may be like mindset. It's like, what can we do to optimize mindset? So you have to look for those linchpins in your life that can help your brain operate well. And the crazy thing I want people to know is that the brain and the body or the mind and the body are not separate. And so many people think of these things like, oh, the mind and the body are separate. I'm like, hold on. If you move, you tell me the last time you worked out, did you feel better or worse afterwards?

24:06And it's like, well, I always feel better. So what's the operating system you can create? That's probably the reason why you are so committed and probably addicted to training is because you know that if I do this, I'm better. Unconsciously or consciously, right? So for some people, it may be like, well, walk. Go find a place where you can walk in the sun or go to the gym. Like find something that brings you joy. And I believe all humans, all humans, no exception, can and should enjoy exercise. You just haven't found the right one for you yet, or you haven't adopted the right mindset in the gym.

24:36It's something I teach a lot is so many people dread workouts. I'm like, you should never dread a workout. You should create a workout that you're absolutely excited to go to. And if you haven't yet, you just haven't found the right coach. because it's one, what do you hold in your mind when you're doing it? Two, what do you feel like when you're done, right? And so if you're doing things that are constantly hurting you, like causes huge amounts of soreness and pain and joint pain, of course you're going to hate it. You can't start there. Like you and I are addicted to it. So we love that. We love when we're like, can't walk for three days after leg day.

25:05Most people hate that. Most people don't even want to feel the burn. So like you can't treat people the same way, right? If you and I train together, I know you're willing to get up at five in the morning, get your ass kicked in a leg workout. But if I meet some random person on the road he's like hey ben i want to coach with you i would never invite them to that i'm like what one's convenient for you when do you love to train so i literally use that those those words i'm like i want you to love this not just like it i want you to love it because this is the best investment in your life forever like if you can learn to love training love nutritionist food love moving your body everything's easy yeah because i think back to some of the sessions which i had these are like very memorable leg sessions which i used to have in my 20s and um I mean, they were unnecessarily intense for the results, which I wanted to get.

25:51Like, I wasn't competing. I wasn't trying to get like the biggest freaking thighs in the UK. But it just so happened to be the case that I would train with, you know, these ex-professional bodybuilders who would go destroy themselves for like an hour and a half and two hours. And with a lot of the content which was going out on YouTube, everybody seemed to think that, okay, that's the way you have to train. Like, you have to be in the gym for two hours. you have to literally be pushing yourself to failure to the point where you're literally going to throw up. And I think that's what it pushed a lot of people off it.

26:21And even myself, I remember thinking, damn, is every leg day going to have to be like that? And well, if you're going to compete and you're going to do Mr. Olympia, then maybe that's the level you need to push to. But for most people who are just looking to look athletic and look good, there's not that requirement to literally have to destroy yourself. So there's two sides to that answer or to that question, right? So the physical requirements are certainly not to do to that level. But what benefit does it provide to push to that level? I think there's maybe an unspoken benefit that people just don't acknowledge is the person you're becoming in the process.

26:58So the reason I train, the reason I work hard is not for the end result. It's the person I'm becoming in the process. So my natural unconscious tendency to avoid hard work, my natural unconscious tendency to be lazy, I can overcome that every single time I step in the gym this is a big part of my mission and message it's like who are you becoming the workout is is like I don't give a shit if you build muscle at the end of the day you build you want to look at great I don't care about that what I care about is the man you're becoming in the process so you someone who's willing to face the hard stuff do you have the the the emotional resilience and the mental resilience to move through something that's challenging.

27:36So every time you were going to the gym, knowing that this is going to, I would get anxiety going to the gym. I'm like, this is going to be terrible. I'd sit in my, I remember sitting in my car for 20 minutes being like, I don't want to go in. I'm going to do it. I don't want to do it. And eventually you're like, okay, now I can go. I know it's going to suck. But the more I think about it, the worse it becomes. So how, how much of a metaphor is that for life? How many times have you thought about something an enormous number of times just to go, God, if I had just done it, I wouldn't have been so bad.

28:03It's always the thinking that makes it worse. So in our mind like i think there's massive opportunity for people to realize are those hard workouts necessary for growth maybe maybe not are they necessary to build your mind maybe maybe not you know like the benefit is there if you're willing to move through it and i think the greatest thing that i got at a bodybuilding is not the body i built or the seven dollar trophies on my shelf it's the man i've become along the way yeah i uh always remember whenever i had those sessions afterwards i would feel this huge sense of accomplishment and it definitely 100 build discipline whatever else i had planned for the rest of that day or the following few days it was easy easy because it was like one of the hardest things i had to do i'd already done yeah so everything else was relatively not that bad i don't know how much you interact with children but the young humans that i get to interact with the young generation hard to call them anything as far as generalization but they certainly have i certainly notice a tendency for them to avoid anything that's difficult and i don't know if that's always been the way certainly i was like that when i was a kid um but there's a really big opportunity for guys of our generation to lead that generation by saying hey the hard work matters is it necessary to build muscles no but go do the hard work because because at the end of the day when you're 40 50 and 60 nobody gives a shit how big your arms measured when you were 25 nobody cares what they care about is your character what's gonna what's gonna serve you well as you age in business in life in marriage in in everything is the character you've developed along the way that is established through your hardest moments not in oh hey i had 26 inch arms don't care right don't care nobody cares like look at me now right so i was one of the biggest humans on the planet and everyone's i know my arms are 24 inches like nobody gives a shit my legs were 35 inches nobody gives a shit um nobody cares but what they look now they look at me now like oh there's character there there's wisdom there and none of that came because of the muscle it became it came because of the person that was willing to go through all those challenges and struggles to get there yeah i remember uh recently this was the was the end of last year, Kevin Laverne was in Dubai and we arranged a training session.

30:24So I was expecting to go in there and do some sort of, you know, cool bicep, tricep, shoulder workout. Cause he was, that's what he was kind of known for is delts and his arms. And then he put me through this, like, it was like an hour and a half, just pure body weight, high rep leg routine, which at the time I was like, why is he making me doing this? And I realized, because it was absolutely horrible like dripping with sweat but i wasn't even lifting any weights it was just purely body weight and i realized what he was doing he was putting me through a mental test yeah and um yeah fuck as horrible as it was after that session like i felt pretty good and it's one which i'll i'll remember for a while it's funny my reputation in professional bodybuilding during my competitive years was, was pretty ruthless.

31:13And anyone I would train with, I would intentionally just dismantle them. Like I wanted, I wanted you to feel like I was superior when we'd done the workouts. And this like psychological warfare was, was always relevant in my mind. So what I would do, it sounds like similar to what Kevin did, is I would find your weakness. Cause some guys are stronger than me. Some guys are bigger than me. Some guys have better endurance than me, but there's something that you have that I can identify that I can exploit that's going to make you lose and i'm going to win and you're you're going to you're going to know that i'm going to be standing over you talking shit and you're going to know that i beat you and i lost a lot of friends along the way i don't say it was the best idea but this is how i operated because i knew that if i was going to stand on stage beside this guy he needed to know that i was superior and i tried to train with as many guys that i could and use these tactics and if you ask anyone i train with like i was intentionally trying to hurt you not these weren't people you were coaching you were just like training partners training partners yeah yeah or other pros you'd be like hey i want to catch a workout i'm like all right let's go okay bro yeah here we go yeah and so i took a lot of pride in one being able to work really hard um to being able to to beat anyone that i trained with in the gym and certainly there was times when i didn't but i would say nine times out of ten i was very intentional about like we're going to do something that's gonna you're gonna quit before i before i do how do you know what somebody's weakness was when you understand the body one a lot of it was just like oh i can see like you're like oh you're not good at this or you know you're you're strong but your endurance is bad or you know you're you're weak so let's go do that or so you would have to either see them train for a little bit beforehand or study how they train no your body says everything about you man like straight away right away yeah right away okay yeah and one of the things i would often do with guys is i'll like do two sets to every one you know if i'm doing two sets to every one of yours psychologically you know I'm superior.

33:00And like, you're like, you're gassed and you can't, you can't get your breath. You're laying on the floor. I'm going, I'm like, hey, I'm doing another set, another set. And I would lean into that a lot. Um, just cause like, I loved, I, and I was in excruciating pain, but I would never show it. I would like, I'm, I'm never going to show you that I'm, that I'm dying, but I'm going to keep, I'm going to keep going. Yeah. Cause I, what I realized is our bodies are so much stronger than our minds. Right. In general, I'm like, I know I can, you know, I said, I don't want to, I want to go lay down on the floor just like you are but me seeing you over there makes me stronger so i'm gonna go back here and do this again how do you build that mental capacity to tolerate pain discomfort um you make it joyful you you make it something you seek rather than something you avoid so as an example i still teach this now in a set most people when they feel the burn when they feel the discomfort they become afraid of it they become uh like i need to stop it's uncomfortable comfortable i would seek it i'm like ah yeah there you are give me more of that i want more of that that's the good stuff give me more of that i put a big goofy smile on my face and it literally trains your brain to love the the experience who was the a training partner that you had that handled it the best mila sartchev he's a psychopath he's he's a psychopath yeah we would do man i would literally bring my girlfriend to the gym to wet my face and pour water on my mouth because I couldn't reach my mouth.

34:24And I'm like, I'm not going to stop. There's no way I'm going to stop. Like you're not going to beat me. I remember, I think we did one workout, we did 17 consecutive back exercises with like without resting. And I was on like number 10 and I was throwing up in my mouth and swallowing it, throwing up my mouth and swallowing it. True story. That was his idea. Oh yeah. He's a psychopath. Is he still training like that? Yeah. Yeah. But he's 60 years old now. So he's not doing the same, but he's still in crazy shape, man. Yeah. that guy for nobody comes close to me and the reality is we know it's absolutely unnecessary like i knew that while i was doing it but i still wasn't gonna stop like i'm yeah let's go that's funny milos was a really serious trainer back then and i brought one of my training partners with me like yeah i trained with since i was like 19 years old and uh because he was a huge fan of milos yeah dude come we'll do a workout and milos kicked him out of the gym well because he was not he was complaining he's like i can't do this milos get the fuck out he goes he looked forward there when he's at the door he goes get the fuck out i'm like all right man but i love that shit like that's how i that's how my brain operates i just know that society doesn't generally like that as much well it's not often you come across people like that no no no and and someone who's not going to take it personally yeah like because the first thing he said when i met him he's like hey man i'm not here to be your friend i'm here to make you better and like that statement to to like pre-qualify our relationship was he's like outside the gym i'll be your friend in here i'm here to make you better and i was like yep let's go because most of the time now i like to train by myself because that's an opportunity for me to zone out and you call it meditation call it whatever you want but i i like to do that and i know i can push myself to the level that is required to get the results that i want and a lot of time now especially as you your profile grows your following grows more people want to train with you you can't train with everyone you've got to be a lot more selective so now if i'm going to train with anyone i want them to be that borderline psychopath because i want to i want to be pushed and i want to learn something so the framing i always take in my mind i don't always share this but it's like am i making you better are you making me better because if i'm making you better you're going to pay for my time if you're making me better then we're on the same page right because i know i'm going to make everyone i train with better that's always my objective but if they can't make me better in some way meaning like i'm learning something or they're going to push me in some way or having a great conversation like it has to be a two-way street because our time is really valuable you know and so like i don't sell my time anymore i don't do one-to-one sessions at all but like if i were even if you no price so here's how i operate so i have currently 12 clients um and it's it's a very high ticket and they pay for the year and if they come to town i train for free because it's included um but that's it so i personally work with 12 guys high-end executive ceo type guys um i do everything for them i i treat them like professional athletes yeah um and so they come to town then they're just part of the family right so they're they're yeah we treat them like family and i'll have 10 coaches that work under me and um if someone wants to work with them then there's a cost yeah all right guys quick pause here i've got a question for you how is your summer physique coming along we're only a couple of months away before you will be gracing the beach the pool are you in shape are you not in shape is there work to do most likely if so i have the tool for you which is going to help you out massively it's the thirst app this is something which i personally use myself when it comes to my training and my nutrition i have all the programs in there which i use on a regular basis and for those who are just looking to lose a bit of body fat the same thing goes for women as well a lot of people don't realize that i used to coach for a large chunk of my life so all of my coaching experience has been put inside of this app i want you to learn as much as possible about how to get yourself in shape there's exclusive videos in there telling you how to do it how to execute exercises properly the foods which i eat and a newly added nutrition section where you can track your meals and your daily macros is pretty much this pocket-sized version of myself which i'm going to carry around with you all day every day so if there's something which might interest you which it definitely will do i highly suggest check out links description head over to the thirst app get it downloaded you will not regret it let's crack on with the episode so i don't know if you remember and it has been quite some time but is there anything that stood out to you about the way i trained which you saw as a weakness or something that could be improved well this specifically you know the leg workout you worked hard i'd say the shoulder workout i was this is going to offend the shit of you but i was surprised how bad your form was for shoulders for a guy who was as big as you are i was like man there's and i don't say that and to offend you but like the opportunity to get better was massive there's always been the weaker yeah and it's ever that's the thing with everyone is like if you have a weak body part it's not because you can't it's because something's wrong in the way you're doing it yeah and so like as soon as we created a few things i don't know if you still continue to train that way but i was like oh your shoulders are going to get massively bigger because like i sort of knew you but didn't really know you when we trained that time i was just like your obviously your body's fantastic right so it's like world class i was like oh you're going to be like dialed in on everything like most of the body part stuff you were but shoulders i was like oh there's a huge opportunity here um so i think we did a few things and um you know hopefully you got some value you know i keep going back to those videos yeah and analyzing what you were saying and it's really hard when i'm training by myself to think of all the different things that you were telling me to do even just that you know too much elevation right i could probably teach it to you in a simpler way now it's been quite a while so i've obviously taught it way more times than i care to talk about and i could probably simplify it down to that you know first principles yeah we'll do it after the video do you um you recommend people who want to get in shape do they need a coach or is it something they can do by themselves um successful people condense time so all the most successful guys i meet they pay to condense time so if i want to read a book versus paying the author 500 bucks an hour for his time i'm going to pay the author right and i think that mindset is one that i find unique in in really successful men um so the answer is if you're someone who craves to be really successful or you are successful you already know the answer to that question is you're going to pay whoever's going to give you certainty and condensed time so that's why people come to to me um i can we'll do in the shortest amount of time possible um yeah so the answer is if you want to do it on your own you're going to learn more, but it's going to take you a lot longer.

41:05You struggle, and struggles are great. Struggles are important. So I don't necessarily say you need a coach. You can certainly do it on your own because getting in shape is incredibly easy. Staying in shape is a different thing because now everyone's just doing, you know, GLP-1 agonist, semaglutide, and, you know, you can get a chance, you can get a rhinoceros shredded on that stuff, right? So what's the thing you're actually trying to accomplish? Well, you're trying to rewrite your identity, your beliefs, and your operating system. So, like, I need to change my identity. what I believe about myself and what's possible and what's my daily operating system.

41:36So what do I do around food? What do I do in my lifestyle? What do I do around training? It's just an operating system. So from the time you wake up to the time you go to bed, you got an operating system. So we have to rewrite that. And not everyone thinks that way. Like they always do the same thing they've always done. So if you have to change it, you literally need someone to come in and tell you, nope, not that there, do this there. So I literally do a 16 hour audit on all my clients. 16 hours is the number of hours you're generally awake a day, give or take. And then I want to see from the time you wake up to the time you go to bed, how you're spending your 15 minute intervals.

42:04And if like, hey, right there, you did this. Let's change that to this. Can you do that? Yep. And so we get a verbal agreement and that makes a shift. So we're looking in their day for these little opportunities to change the operating system. So I'm not just giving them a diet and like go on your own, giving a workout, go on your own. No, no. I need to change everything about the way they handle stress, about the way they optimize energy, about the way they recover, about the way they think. Because if I can get a snapshot of your day or if I can spend the day with you, I can be like, oh, right here, don't do that, do this.

42:34Something as simple as like, oh, you decided to go do this walk indoors on a treadmill. I want you to go outside. It could be something as ridiculously simple as that. Or right here where you're waiting for this, I need you to do this little stretch. Or you're brushing your teeth, do five minutes of stretching. Or let's do some breath work for three minutes before you eat. And so we're literally attaching these new high-impact habits with things they're already doing and giving them a higher profile operating system. How do you choose who you're going to work with? Because I imagine there would be so many people that probably have the money to pay, but are they going to commit?