E122 - How To Reinvent Yourself In 90 Days (no matter your situation) | Michael Smoak

33:41And then you can dial back in, in these seasons, but it's, it becomes a very intuitive thing for someone like you when in reality, it's, it's an art form that is lost on so many. Like I know so many people that they don't even understand why there's a nutrition label on that. They don't know what a calorie is. And it's something we integrate into every part of our lives that a lot of people have a very low level of awareness around. It's a bit concerning. I mean, obviously, we're seeing the byproduct of a lack of caloric awareness in America. It's in the form of obesity, but I think being calorically aware, I agree, everyone should track for a period of time.

34:14Like, yeah, it's a pain in the ass, but it's an extra 15 minutes a day, realistically. And then you have this awareness that so many people will walk through their entire lives without, that I think truly is powerful. Yes, it's something which when you do it for so long, you almost take it for granted about how much you know. And this is an experience from myself and then back when I used to train my clients back in the day. It just seems so obvious, but then it really isn't. No. For people who have mastered their craft, they'll try to talk to somebody about the subject which they've mastered and they're kind of like, how do you not understand this yeah it's so obvious but it really isn't and i think that's down to it'd be good if there was a little bit more education about it in school or this people had to i think one of the problems is there's just this there's an abundance of information and a lot of it isn't necessarily true and it's quite conflicting especially on social media like the things which end up getting the most traction and go viral or get shared usually get shared because the person who is talking about it or doing the demonstration looks great but their level of qualification isn't actually that good they've just managed to get themselves in shape or they're genetically very gifted and they just say whatever they want to say and then people are like okay well he said that so that must be true but the advice is not to generalize rather shit a lot of the times it's it's typically polarizing people who look good and have a bit of a negative tone I find negative content to go very viral or something that can be perceived negatively can be inflammatory if you will yeah to be really really hyper viral and it's a shame and that's that's part of why I started the the content was number one it was passion content for me was like a cathartic release I had this thing I was obsessed with that no one in my life really cared about except for one best friend who I brought here with me to Dubai he's my brother shout out will I love you but it was like he and I tapped in at the level like you are just a true love for what we do.

36:20And not everyone wanted to learn about the neuroscience behind cold exposure or caloric deficit. And I thought fair, but outside of creating, because I wanted to create something and just get that out into the world, it was seeing all of that bad information being so popular and seeing how many people were so confused. The amount of people who think it is truly not an option to be really fucking fit, but also like your life is, I would argue, probably the majority of the average person. Because when you hear, oh, I got to get back in the gym. I got to start cleaning up my diet. They treat it as it got to and not a get to, as an obligation and not an opportunity.

36:59But I consistently lean, consistently a high level of muscle as are you. And then we live a really objectively fun life to someone who is overweight or not. So that's where it comes back to, I believe fitness isn't about suffering. It's about raising awareness around calories, around how training works, around how our bodies work. And if you can give that to people, which I think is something you do well is you're not, you're not inflammatory. You're very calm. You're very stoic in your delivery, which makes you easy to listen to. And you are yourself. Like, I think I'd honestly deem you as one of the originators of, like you mentioned, that content style of this is just my life.

37:34I'm going to do this, whether the camera's here or not if you want to sit down and watch sick and the style of content which you still do like it hasn't changed day in the life uh and it's obviously improved objectively in quality as you've gotten to be a pro at it but you bring people along for a ride and give them a sense of not only information and value uh humor but i think we live in a world where people want to feel connected to something because people have never felt more alone despite all the technology and like I've seen comments on your videos and other videos where it's like I feel like I'm in the room yeah I feel like I'm there and you do a really good job I think of bringing people along for the ride which opens them up enough to learn about these things from you so kudos thank you of course man how did you get started with the the content creation process because you're going from obviously this this this corporate environment where you probably I assume you were never on camera and weren't really posting anything to then taking the leap and be like, oh, this is, this is what I'm going to do now.

38:35That's funny. You say never on camera. I've actually never thought about this before, but I was on camera all the time in college. Don't clip that.

38:46Lincoln bio. No. Um, I graduated from a very unique program at university. So I graduated from my business school at my college, Kennesaw state. And normally within a business school, you have marketing, finance, management, even entrepreneurship within the business school degree. So I don't know how it works in the UK. Is it similar? You have like the business school, the medical school, nursing school, law school. At what age? That would be like 19 to 22. Okay. So that would be university. Right. Right. This was college, university. But usually the universities have everything in one. Okay. So what would your degree be in?

39:25Did you go, you went to yeah i went to newcastle university so in the city of newcastle there was the newcastle university in northumbria so they were in the same place but there were separate universities and i guess they each had their kind of pros and cons i did economics and business management okay so is that within a specific is that within the business school yeah yeah yeah okay same idea yeah so my major within the business school was called professional sales professional sales excuse me It was literally the psychology and business of how to become a salesperson. So we would sit down like this on camera with a room of people watching the video, judging us on our ability.

40:02Sounds crazy out of context, but judging us on our ability to sell. So building rapport with someone, how we communicate. Do we make proper eye contact, proper hand gestures? Do we understand the sales process? Do we ask the right questions? Are we getting to the pain or the challenges? Everything you learn in sales training. So I was on camera for two and a half years being graded by people. So I was comfortable on camera and I just made that connection now That's pretty that's good is the best decision I have ever made. Yeah, like hands down I use what they taught me Every single day. It was all communication public speaking human psychology And so I mean it would be as every single day I was public speaking like get up on On stage in front of 50 people and talk whether live or on camera.

40:46And so I built a callus around what is so many people's number one fear. Did you know that in many surveys, the number one fear for people is public speaking ahead of death? That's fucking wild. Because there's this weird primal part of our brain that like the eyes on us and the possibility of rejection and being cast out. But if you can build that callous, you can do whatever you want. And so I was so blessed to be in that program and be on camera a lot and have that fear of being perceived just totally knocked out of me. And then I got into corporate to your point, used all the sales skills and this passion and obsession, honestly, with how I felt when I took care of myself, just continued to grow.

41:28Like I saw the correlation between being physically fit and also being incredibly mentally sharp. And it was impacting my performance positively in the workplace. And I became more in tune, started listening to all the podcasts, continued to watch you and all these other creators, but it never occurred to me to do that myself. I was just living. And if people needed help, they knew I was the guy in my circle to like help them get in shape but it got to the point in my life where i felt this like deep desire to do something different and it was like maybe i should just become a content creator but then the fear immediately kicked in what will they think of me what if i'm a wannabe what if it were it doesn't work all my ego just bullshitting me try to keep me from doing it and eventually i started doing it to give myself a place to get that passion out.

42:16He was just like, I just want to talk about this. I don't care who listens. I don't care if anybody listens, but right now nobody's listening and I get it. We have different interests. And through that process, it blew up much faster than I ever thought possible. Like I made my first video on TikTok is where I started March of 2023, started Instagram in June, quit my job July the same year. So it took off very fast. I started making money very fast. So you weren't even on Instagram? No. And I think I only had like 10 posts on Instagram when I started. So it was TikTok. Much more peaceful time than you.

42:51Before I found out about Instagram. Sometimes like, fuck this, get me back in corporate. Yeah, dude. Before I found out that what the wild west of an Instagram comment section is, holy shit. TikTok's a much more policed place that way. But that blew up very quickly. And I took the risk per se. It was not a risk. I took the jump and became self-employed through content in July of 23. And so that's, I was doing it alongside corporate pretty much the whole time. And funny enough, I started a new job for 15 days. I worked for them for 15 business days before I quit to do TikTok full time. And the CEO of the company was a former American special forces guy.

43:31And he does a deep dive on everyone before they get hired. And when I told him I was quitting, he went, yeah, I knew the social media thing was going to become a problem. That's all right. I wish you the best. I was like, I know you stuck your neck out for me and I quit three weeks later, but I appreciate the vote of confidence. And the rest is history, man. It's just like, God has blessed me beyond measure with the way that this has grown, the rate at which it's grown. And I don't deserve any of it. And I'm just trying every day not to squander it. Going back to what you were taught with the sales training, that's such an important skill, the public speaking thing.

44:05Because if I realistically look back at my life. I was trying to put that off for as long as possible because it wasn't comfortable for me. I think it was until the age of maybe 25, but it was a few times where I had to be on camera because I was getting interviewed from doing like a bodybuilding show. And I remember just being so uncomfortable and watching myself back and be like, wow, like that needs some improvement. And then I realized, you know, there's certain times in your career where you're kind of a bottleneck and there's something you need to do in other in order to get to that next level and for me it was the the speaking and the presentation and the being on camera um some people are just gifted with it they just have a natural ability to be a good talker and speaker some people may like yourself have been taught at a younger age whether intentionally or just by luck um but for me it was something which i had to force myself to do like around mid-20s i just buy a camera and just talk to it watch myself back cringe do it again and again and again and again and just put yourself out there god i'm so glad you said that dude the concept of people just people look at me now and they're like oh yeah well you're always like that it's like no no no no no no man that's what you said watch yourself cringe repeat that is the barrier that most people cannot cross.

45:25They will literally compromise the possibility of an incredible life. I firmly believe thousands of people are sitting on a winning lottery ticket. They could change people's lives. They could be the next biggest creator and we'll never know because they could not silence their fear of being perceived. But in reality, the pro that everyone looks up to was once just a curious amateur and was terrible. You, when you started, objectively not a good speaker, but you just keep doing it you keep doing and that is the simplest yet biggest crux i see in people that can't they can't take off that is exactly what i tell people that ask me for communication tips it's like well first step set up the camera and let yourself suck yeah probably a hundred times and then you're going to get a little bit better yeah and it's just people have a hard time conceptualizing doing that man there's also a skill of being able to articulate your thoughts because if you are the type of person maybe you're more introverted or you just don't talk that much, maybe you just, you're a writer or maybe you just don't express in any way.

46:27The first few times that you're trying to articulate what you're thinking, it can be quite a difficult thing to do. And I know it's even for me, if I go through periods of times where I just kind of, I take a break from making videos or social media, or even like there's periods where I would not do any podcasts, I get rusty real quick. So I like to keep it going as not necessarily as frequently as I can, but I need to keep doing it often enough so that it's, you know, I'm still good with it. Otherwise it just, like even with vlogging, for example, if, if I'm in a routine where I vlog, I hold the camera and I talk to it every day and I'm going around and I'm documenting very quickly, you get good at that.

47:10But then if you go extended periods of time of just not doing that, if I had not made a vlog for a long time, or maybe I'm used to somebody else holding the camera you kind of forget how to do it a little bit you're a bit rusty so it's the repetition and the practice of doing it every day that makes you very good very quickly it's a it's a muscle and it atrophies just like if you take time off the gym but conversely you can also train it to grow bigger and stronger and there is funny little nuances that i find myself forgetting about vlogging or filming if i take even a couple of days off little things angles light it like just small shit yeah you're right that you forget uh just the the touch of like this like an athlete has the touch with a ball it's the same it's the same type of thing i feel that too do you do you have advice for people when it comes to communication but they are trying to speak in a language that isn't native to them because i've had this quite a few times or i've observed it where somebody is trying to create content but this they're not speaking their native language.

48:11So the skill of the communication isn't that great, or the word selection isn't as good as it could be. You just know if they were speaking in their native tongue, it would flow way smoother. So you would almost say, well, maybe it's just better for you to focus on your native language. But then that person may only be a million or a couple of million people that speak their language. So for them to be successful and reach a massive audience, they're kind of limited because not many people are speaking their language. So do you recommend that they just try and become the best communicator possible and master the art of the language they want to speak?

48:50It's funny you asked me that because someone asked me that at Run Club this morning. A guy from Uzbekistan said, I want to be a content creator, but English is not my first language. But his English was quite good. And I think Thomas Jefferson, I believe it was Thomas Jefferson said, never say in two words what can be said in one. And that statement alone is the essence of communication. Too many people just ramble and don't properly structure sentences in a way that is what is the quickest and most efficient yet eloquent way I can deliver a lesson, a perspective, a mindset, a joke, humor, whatever.

49:24And so I would say the principles of being a prominent or proficient communicator are the same for non-native and native speakers. Limit your filler words like um, you know, those are killers filler words are killer words They make you appear less competent subconsciously so much of what we do as communicators and If you watch the best public speakers in the world so much of what they do actually just appeals to the subconscious mind You think about the people you love listening to you don't say Well, it's because he properly inflexes his voice upward when he wants me to think or he limits his filler word usage or She has really good stage presence.

49:57You go. I don't know. I just love the message But so much of it is how they're delivering the message through their body cues their eye contact their tone pitch and cadence and their lack thereof of filler words. So the principles are the same. albeit a bit tougher but i follow content creators who don't speak english as their first language and through building the callus just like we do albeit in a bit of a different way do build followings but that also might look different i think it's easy to compare to someone like you or someone like me who has a large platform and say like well that's what i define success as if i start speaking english in my content but maybe your impact is a hundred thousand followers maybe it's 10 ,000.

50:35It looks different for everybody. So I think the first step is to reframe and understanding what success looks like to that person as a content creator might be different than you, than me, than him or her. And then just build the base with all the same skill sets that someone who was a native speaker would try to do it. But also don't be afraid to make content in your native tongue. Like I have a client whose first language is Spanish and his English is not very good. He's still learning. And so I told him, make both, screw it. Like now we're at a point in social media where ai is going to turn your content to english anyway it's okay so i i would never want somebody to not try if they feel called to do so but the rules are the same yeah well i think there's a pretty big spanish speaking audience out there yeah i guess that's unfair like the guy who spoke use back yeah for example might have a bit smaller audience to pull from than than the guy speaking spanish yeah just a quick one guys we have an offer running on the thirst app right now and for those who don't know this is an app which i built to give you everything that you could possibly need in order to get yourself in shape.

51:36So this is everything which I've learned over the past 18 years of training, speaking to all of the experts and coaching thousands of clients. Since the launch of the app, we've helped over 100 ,000 people to get one step closer to achieving their goals. So those people no longer were wasting time in the gym trying to figure out what exercises they should be doing, how many reps, how many sets, when they should rest, what meal plan they should be following that's going to be best suited for them. No more of that. For less than the price of one PT session, you can get access to over hundreds of programs to help you build strength, power and size, along with meal plans to help you build muscle, lose fat and optimize your health and well-being, whilst also allowing you to have some degree of flexibility in your life.

52:18So now's the time to get in shape. Make it easier for yourself with a system that actually works with minimal input and the absolute maximum output. Let's get into the video. so that all this stuff about the um the body language the sign the the hand movements and eye contact is that something which you learned at university have you taken it further to that next level yes i learned it at university like i learned still there i learned that 55 of communication is non-verbal has nothing to do with what you say or how you say it it's everything in your posture your eye contact your lip movements your eyebrows your hands all of it is 55 is perceived in completely nonverbal and then about 35 ish it's 33 ish is uh inflection tonality cadence pitch and then the last seven percent is the actual word choice so actually what we say is the very much the least important piece of communication yeah i'm quite curious to do that because i think there's i've just winged this with no education or being taught or corrected it's kind of been more so just me watching myself back and like oh i need to change that but it's certainly there's room for improvement particularly when it comes to um you know doing a podcast i know you know chris williamson he like he's on this mission to become like one of the world's best podcasters and he went and did all this extra training to he would even like warm up his vocal cord he said he did this he warm up his vocal cords you think chris was lying he said he did yeah before uh like doing a podcast and he's done all this extra training.

53:50And I remember visually watching over a couple of years, how he completely transformed himself being a podcast host. And I was like, wow, okay. He's really put in the effort to be one of the best and it's shown. He's like a, he reminds me of an athlete with the God given talent who also has an insane work ethic and is a by-product of what's possible when you have both. Like he definitely had some natural charisma. He obviously has the curiosity bone that I think is inherent in many people, the ability to ask the right questions. I think is that's God given, but then you can tell that he's put legitimate measured training into it like you would on a gym program.

54:26And it definitely shows and obviously what he's doing. And I got a lot of inspiration from a recent video he put out in regards to his health struggles that he's been dealing with. Because I've been doing the same, like I've been, I've been going through it last, the last year or so, and I've kind of hit a breaking point, but I was scared to talk about it and his video. I've never met Chris. I don't know him but his video convicted me to share that and i got a lot of really kind messages about people struggling with the same thing yeah but what was that the thing that you were struggling with i still am uh jet lag in dubai doesn't help but you haven't been living in a moldy house no no no mold no mold because i know how i know he's struggling with that i know how much of a bitch that is to get out of your system but i have been dealing with effectively the same set of symptoms for Fuck man, I want to say like close to it two years and it's just gotten worse despite good blood work.

55:19So Sleep it's hard for me to settle into sleep and get tired every night But very hard to wake up i'm talking peel myself out of the bed and for a while I thought It was like I was in the wrong place in my life and then It was my dad is sick and i'm going through all this emotional turmoil taking care of him And then I came out of that it didn't go away and my energy levels are just frankly shit and i'll have to depend on caffeine which creates a vicious cycle of depending not sleeping depending gut health issues bloating after meals lethargy after meals gi issues and it just came to a head where i realized like i'm 28 years old and people perceive me as the healthiest guy they know and i feel like fucking shit all the time why is this happening to me and seeing chris's video he said something in there the effect of someone i to many people i outwardly appear extremely fit because he does he's jacked good skin looks healthy he said but inwardly i'm suffering and not to be dramatic like i get through the day and i can lock in when i need to but i think i've become so comfortable with operating at what is probably 60 and the blood work's not telling the story my blood work is good i think part of it is this endurance training i was telling sam and stefan last night on our way dinner.

56:36I don't think I've taken a full week off of running in three years. And I don't think that's good for me. And how frequently are you running in the week? Frequently. I mean, right now I'm running like 40 to 50 miles a week. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, it wasn't always like that, but I haven't run less than let's say 15 or 20 miles since 2022. And that's, I think I need to take a period completely off running, but then I've got this, the marathons coming up and the things I need to do. So it's a battle, man, but I'm tired of it. So I appreciated Chris for sharing that because I kind of, it helped me give myself permission to do the same thing.

57:15It's funny how I'd go through the comments and see what everyone's opinions were, largely very positive. But then there were quite a few people who were saying that this is all self-induced because he's working too hard and he's too stressed out and all he needs to do is just take a bit of a break, which I think it's a lot more complicated than that. Yeah, he has liverworm, mold poisoning. Fuck off if you think it's working too hard. You're probably not working hard enough if you just have time to comment on his YouTube that. Yeah, sure, there's something to running yourself down, but also there's a huge spiritual and physiological component to his men being in pursuit of something.

57:52That's what he is doing. That's what you are doing. That's what I am attempting to do. Testosterone actually elevates. Dopamine actually elevates when we're in the pursuit of building. That's what we're literally biologically designed to do. So I would argue what Chris is doing, albeit maybe with structured periods of rest, is better for his health. And it doesn't have as much to do with tearing him down as it does building him up and giving him a sense of purpose. It's like what most men need and are lacking. So to that I say, wrong. No way. How has Whoop held you asleep? dude like i said before the show started i'm the ceo of the yellow recovery it's like i'm the worst ambassador ever like you don't want to see my scores as soon as you get a green screenshot story straight up just another green for me yeah it's just all it looks like all the time whoops like you're not meeting your deliverables like well i i can't you wouldn't like what you saw no um yeah i thought this thing was supposed to help you yeah yeah i will i don't think whoop is for everybody like i have a ton of people who reach out and ask me about it because i think you were saying before we started the show, you've had yours for years.

58:562021. Yeah, same. But I wasn't, I wasn't creating, it was a gift and I've always been a big data guy and was super interested in something like this. So I've loved it. I do think for some people, it can trigger a bit of health anxiety for them because they get too fixated on the numbers. The biggest impact Whoop has made on me is a couple of things that I've implemented that I've been able to see a measurable improvement from. Like for example, I'm extremely passionate about the supplementation of magnesium because 55 % of the u.s is moderately to severely deficient In an essential mineral required for hundreds of processes in the body So I started taking magnesium l-3 and 8 And my rim sleep got better.

59:37I felt a little better My deep sleep got better. My waking events decreased and I was like, oh, I wouldn't have known that Had I not had something to quantify and measure. Yeah, and then I started waiting eating started having my last meal earlier in the day because you know that's important for sleep and i started taping my mouth shut and like everything began to improve like i was more tired i know sometimes my difficulty sleeping is triggered by eating too late probably so when i trigger or when i eat early in the day when i take my mouth shut i take my magnesium like whoop shows me that that's probably the right thing to do and so being able to quantify it I think if we can't measure it, we can't improve it.

1:00:17So being able to measure it so I can make it better is huge. And the advanced labs aspect, have you done that yet? Not yet, no. Okay. I've got my blood work when I get back scheduled. I think taking that, pairing it with a GI map and like attacking whatever's going on with me through whoop, like the timing of them releasing advanced labs for anyone who doesn't know whoop integrated a blood work component to their software called advanced labs. And so I'm going to take that and use it to try to make myself better effectively. I think for me, it was a big eye opener to see the effect of alcohol and how that was disrupting the sleep, but also drastically bringing down my HRV.

1:00:56So it's one of those things I've just basically knocked on the head. Like I will drink from time to time, but the cons of it far outweigh the pros and then on top of that the sleep the eating so eating before bed usually terrible recovery the next day and then just the having the consistency with waking up at the same time, but also going to bed at the same time. like that's if you can keep up with that routine of waking and sleeping at the same time you actually end up having really good quality sleep because your body is like prepared and it knows when you're going to be sleeping and when you're going to be waking up the moment i'm traveling or it's all over the place then it's it can be difficult because for me in particular when i go to bed it's when i start to get all my crazy thoughts and i can't stop thinking and i'm not one of those people that can just switch off and go to sleep.

1:01:53I'm usually tossing and turning for half an hour or so before I actually fall asleep. Yeah, me too. Big time. Big time. And yeah, I didn't even think to mention that, but I drink a bit too much, not excessive, but I'll drink a few times a month. And when we drink, I'll go out with the boys. It'll be a bit heavy. Like I'll have a few too many, but even just two drinks really messes with your HRV. And I'm starting going to notice the little things, seemingly little things like a couple of drinks matter to everybody. But if you're really trying to get an edge or like me stacking endurance training on top of it, it has to be cut out or I'm going to suffer.

1:02:28So like the big rocks I've implemented is just less alcohol. Frankly, I think that was probably a big problem. Less alcohol, more focus on what you mentioned. Like Dr. Matthew Walker calls that sleep opportunity. Like between the hours of 10 30 p.m and 6 30 a.m i am in my bed outside of that window i am out of my bed not doing sleep behaviors so yeah the consistency in wake and sleep times is huge and something i'm working to dial in and right when i dial it in naturally i go to dubai where it's currently 3 a.m at home yeah but that's okay it's totally worth it yeah i think there's um they do recommend you almost trying to dump a lot of your thoughts on paper yeah or writing it down before you go to sleep so that you can just have a little bit more peace of mind and just think okay that's out now i can just do you journal nightly i should be doing more me too me too it is powerful i went on a bender not a bender that's not this i'm still thinking about alcohol i went on a fixation route of journaling every night and it was huge it really does help but i'm glad to know somebody else honestly a lot of the people in my life that i find in our industry or just generally are considered a quote-unquote high performer struggle with the as soon as I laid down the weight of every conscious thought I've ever had like it's me in the forefront of my brain yeah I think people look at me and think I've got everything really dialed in and I follow this very specific routine every day but I really don't I just wake up when my body wants to wake up and for me the most important thing is just get the gym out the way that's kind of the thing I look forward to the most and I enjoy the most and is the priority over everything else.

1:04:07Even when I may have a really important piece of business to take care of or content to film, the amount of times where I'm just like, no, I'm going to go to the gym first, and then that will come after the gym, which for most people wouldn't make any sense. And even some of my team, they're like, Mike, do the thing that you're supposed to do. You can do the gym after, but I'm like, nope. The gym takes priority. Oh, you're a big morning workout guy then? No, no, no. It's, it's, there'll be around between 11 and one. Okay. But I'm just saying like in terms of importance of all the things that I do in the day, the gym is always number one.

1:04:43But you're probably as a by-product able to show up better in the areas you need to show up because you choose that. Yeah. It's, it's, it's very important for like, yeah, that's sure. That's smack dab in the middle of many meeting windows, but the principle of me choosing to do this now means I can show up more as you need me or as my videographer needs me when I choose that thing for myself, that window of selfishness I think is incredibly important. You know, the people that you work with, your clients, what is it they're coming to you with? Like what problems they have do they want you to try and help them with or solve?

1:05:18That's an interesting question because I think I don't necessarily stick to a niche in terms of my videos. I get the feeling you're not just a fitness coach guy. You're a whole lot more than that. Right. And so that can honor, I mean, objectively from a business standpoint, man, that can be difficult, right? Like if I was just hammering fitness information, like I was when I started, it was all about getting leaner, building muscle, the neuroscience behind why it's important, all about fitness. And it's changed a lot more as I've grown up and been through more life and adversity. I've become more convicted to talk about mindset, my faith, and my general perception of the world.

1:05:59But fitness is obviously a core pillar. So it's very diverse to answer your question. I've got people who are just there because they found my fitness content. I've got people who want to get closer to God. I've got people who want me more in the life coach vein, if you will. I don't love that term, but they just need somebody to help them get their shit together for lack of a better phrase. And it can be difficult to build an offer from a business standpoint that makes sense for those people. So it's about just being really perceptive of those individuals and trying to meet them where they're at.

1:06:31Cause it is, it is truly a mix. I mean, I've got people that are coming to me for nothing other than communication. Like I want to be a public speaker or I want to grow my social media and I try to help everybody I can, but it makes the coaching side very difficult for sure. How many people do you work with? So that's going to be changing. I went the lower ticket community approach this year, went high ticket last year. I think I've got 220 clients right now on a much lower ticket approach in the group coaching school community aspect, multiple group calls a week. But come January, I'm going to be migrating away from that and doing a higher ticket, much smaller group and probably focusing on a handful of fitness folks, a handful of that life coach vein area.

1:07:14And I do feel fired up about the idea of helping people become a more proficient communicator. Uh, so just a few on each bucket, if you will, but right now it's, it's a lot of bodies to account for. Yeah. Cause I, I did that throughout a lot of my twenties, the, the one-to-one stuff it did it taught me a lot but it was very very draining yeah because you first of all you you almost become friends with these people like they they actually look forward to speaking with you and then the the conversation which was supposed to be all about the the training and the nutrition and getting them to the physique they want it was going off in all different directions it was like a therapy session so it was kind of cool but then after each call i was like because you know you've really given everything you can to them and then it's like okay yeah we got another call now and then another one and another one and it started to add up to the point where i was like i need to i want to have a break from this but it's something i've toyed with going back into but then trying to figure out well what is it that people need help with now and what can I offer them?

1:08:22And what do you feel inspired to help with where you could really show up the best? What is that for you right now? I mean, for sure, I feel like the whole physique aspect and getting them in shape, that's interesting. But I feel like most people deep down probably know what they should be doing. They just need someone that's going to hold them accountable, someone that will inspire them and hold them accountable and just point them in the right direction but more so now i feel like i could really help people who are just a little bit unsure with which direction they want to take their life so more so career wise but then on top of that maybe relationship wise because i'm 35 and i've had a fair share of experience with relationships that are probably in a position where i can talk about it i don't necessarily think i'm an expert to the point where i would always give good advice because i think i'm quite different to a lot of people and the experiences I've had, but I feel as though I could definitely guide people.

1:09:23And for sure, being a single person at the moment, who am I to try and teach someone how to be in a relationship when I'm probably not the best person when it comes to being in relationships? Like I've got my own fair share of work to be doing in that aspect. So yeah, it is interesting. I put the feelers out there sometimes on YouTube videos. Like sometimes I'll go massively off topic and talk about something I don't normally talk about and to see how people respond. So yeah, I guess you're right. If I was to go back and do it again, it would have to be something that genuinely interests me. Because I do remember when I went all in on the fitness stuff, doing too much and talking about that too much got very repetitive.

1:10:04And I did have that break from it. I moved away and got more into the lifestyle, the travel, collaborating with people outside of fitness, which was very interesting, but then it made we missed the fitness aspect of it and i think people kind of don't or may have forgotten that i used to be a person of authority when it came to the fitness and the building the physique just because i talked about it less people may have forgotten that that's actually the thing i probably know most about yeah what if it was about giving yourself permission to flow in and out of those states like if maybe the clients i hire i'm a i'm or the clients i choose to work with you're at a point where you have the luxury of choice you can price it a certain way you can pick a certain way that maybe, I mean, fitness is an aspect of every successful person's life.

1:10:46Having a good relationship can be impacted by someone's physique because that'll also impact the way that they think and how they're perceived. And I think it's all one big combination of things. Like I think if you're going to work as a life coach, help someone with relationships, fitness is an aspect. Mindset is an aspect. Faith is an aspect. Like self-help is an aspect. It all blends together. I think fitness is always the first bridge. Once you clear the physical vessel, you become curious about what's beyond those things. And so for me, it was about the clients I'm going to work with. There's probably going to be an aspect of our agreement that I help them with their fitness, but there's going to be an aspect where we sit down and I just hold space for them and play therapist, if you will.

1:11:26But that can be draining. You're right. So when you mentioned, it's funny, I tinged a bit when you said they became like friends because I did the same thing and it became exhausting. Like there needs, in my opinion, there needs to be a clear delineation of authority. It's like you hired me, remember? Because in my experience, I found clients overstepping the boundary of coach-client relationship in multiple different ways and then getting angry when I stopped reciprocating, but it was because I allowed the boundary to be crossed. Does that make sense? Is that an experience you had at any point?

1:11:57Yeah. So what are you doing now? Is there a coaching offer or are you full-time with content? it's the concept i have the the app which is low ticket right you've got the low ticket app so that does good but there's always the option to to bring it back if i need to that's if i if i want to is the question so yeah we'll we'll see well i think you're in a you're in a position in the in the space the industry who you are where you can be for a few people if i can be presumptuous like for a few people the person they need to go to to be a certain way so for example you mentioned how when you go to the gym you show up better in the other facets and the meetings and the stuff that doesn't necessarily fire you up or light you up or even you'll vlog better because you got your training out of the way you feel sharp i have a coach that i work with he's not really in the fitness he's not he's not a fitness coach he's not even a life coach um his name's kian laggi and he we've talked about this he and i and he was like i was talking about how good things have been going and how energetically I feel very aligned.

1:13:00And Kian was like, because when you come into this space, you don't need to have, do, or be anything. You can be masculine, you can be aggressive, you can be pissed off, or you can be like softer, more receptive. I think for men to specifically to really be who they want to be and show up powerfully, they need a space where they can be feminine, submissive, receptive, learn. For me, that's like my relationship with God. And then sometimes stepping into that space with Kian is like just expressing my emotions or getting, you know, venting, if you will, and him just creating that space. And then because I've had that soft area where I can be a bit more, I guess, not so strong or how people perceive me on the internet or how my clients perceive me, I can then show up far better in that vein.

1:13:43And I think you could be that person for many people, not saying you should or have to, but I think that's how a lot of people perceive you. I think guys would appreciate you holding space for them and giving them direction on a place they might feel lost because that is nature and energy wise. It's, it's a feminine to masculine exchange, right? You stepping into a man's space and saying, this is what you should do. You're sort of leading them in a way. But I think a lot of dudes really, really need that. And their perception of strength is like, I just have to be macho all the time. And I can't be emotional.

1:14:12I can't cry. I can't be upset. I just have to like, go, go, go. And then they have a mental breakdown. So not saying that's what your offer should be, but I do think a lot of men and people in the space, I could see you as that guy, if that was somewhere you decided to go. Especially when you get to the position where you do have a following or people look up to you. Whether you like it or not, you kind of have a responsibility to be a good role model. And there is in this world a lot of very questionable role models who are preaching the whole, this is how to be an alpha. And it's like, well, not really.

1:14:46That shit's dumb. Yeah. And it's the same thing for women. I think women probably have a harder time. I think there's far fewer really good female role models out there because I feel like a lot of the really smart intelligent women who have great things to say usually have this fear or just this unwillingness to put themselves out there and say what they want to say the ones that aren't afraid of doing that usually don't have the best message to spread that's why on this podcast I like to speak to the women who in my opinion I think are good role models because I want to platform them and get their message out yeah not a only fan skill for example what's your experience been like with podcasting in terms of being a guest or interviewing people or what because you have your own being a host most of about 75 to 80 percent of my episodes maybe more solo so i do the 20 to 45 minute just talking head sort of a huberman style podcast where i just talking to the camera interviewing people i will do for just someone i'm genuinely curious about and genuinely want to have a conversation with i've been very fortunate in terms of having good experiences like it's it's always on having a great guest someone that's willing to engage and talk and be sort of in flow rather than like we were talking about earlier ask answer ask answer there's always three or four things i really want to hit but i don't write them out i just i don't script them.

1:16:12I just have them on a little bullet list by my, uh, sort of notebook right here by my eyes and sort of like probably you do on the computer there. And I just try to hit them. And if the conversation goes somewhere completely different, beautiful. Cause that's probably where it needed to go. And I just trust that feeling. I've only had like maybe one where I was like, damn, that was, that was disappointing. Like that, that's not how I expected that to go. Yeah. And that sucked, but that was my perception. I still got a lot of positive feedback on that episode. So a good lesson in put out the content anyway, was I almost did not release the episode and I got, this was the one that you did a, you, you had a guest on.

1:16:49Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to name them, but we'll, we'll talk, we'll talk, we'll talk afterward, but I was stoked and then it didn't pan out how I, my predetermined expectation panned out, but so many people still said that they love the conversation. So it was a good lesson for me. I've had a few of them. It is weird because you have this visualization of how you think the conversation is going to go and then it can be better or worse. Like for example, this is a good one because I've not even looked at my notes like once. Perfect. I was a bit worried about that. The conversation is just like flowing and going where it needs to be.

1:17:23And usually from my experience, they're the best because it's just like, it's a conversation. As long as I can cover the things which I wanted to cover, that's good. But then every so often And there'll be one where it's just like, you know, maybe I may be like 45 minutes in and I genuinely have just run out of things to ask. That's rough. It's like, we're going to keep this one going. That's got it. What do you do? I think it's a skill that's been developed knowing that if I really need to, I can just wing a conversation and drag it out until it's kind of hit where it needs to hit. it's like anything when i first started this i was scared because i was like i have no experience of being a host or knowing if i can keep a conversation going or ask the right questions there's definitely a difference you can see from the first episode to now um and it's it's a good feeling knowing now i could go into an episode with no prep and just wing it but there's always going to be you will come across as being more confident and more intellectual if you have done the prep for sure especially when it it's a it's a guest that is an expert in a field that you really have no idea about if it's something to do with fitness or something i'm really passionate about it's easy because i'm just genuinely curious and at least know a little bit about it but for example sometimes when i have like traders on or crypto people like yeah there's i know there's some very good questions which could be asked but i don't understand how it works enough to be able to really ask those good questions unless i prepped beforehand and i've literally just written it out is there a is there a guest that comes to mind where you felt really challenged or just nervous about i was reviewing you've had some awesome guests on that i'd love to talk with yeah yeah there's been a few i remember like the chris voss the hostage who goes like that was an intense one yeah um and i just wanted to come across as being like smart and intellectual it's very rare now that i would get starstruck i'm sure i will do at some point in the future if there's someone who i really look up to and admire um but there's just this you just really hope that it goes the way you want it to go and that you don't make a fool of yourself because there's sometimes i i would literally have a brain fart mid conversation and i've completely forgot about what the question was and then and then i'm there just thinking about the awkwardness of the situation and then i i just don't say and then you're totally out of it yeah like shit i'm not in this moment at all i can't even recover yeah that's happened a few times luckily not that often but it has you know there has been a couple situations where it's like oh this is what i really didn't want to happen and it's happened but yeah i think um now i'm definitely much better yeah man i mean i think i think this has been incredible talk it's felt just like a convo i kind of forgot the cameras are rolling a few different points which i think is all you could ever hope for yeah i think there's a time for that value-based interview structure conversation it's like i want the audience to learn learn learn and then there's podcasts that i listen to just because i want to listen to two dudes shit the shit that's like that's what i think despite what so many people think of him rogan does really well on both sides like he interviews the guys like peter atia andrew huberman he asked questions that i go i would have wanted to ask that yeah like that's a real skill and then there's his episodes with all of his boys and i'm just like feel like i'm in the room listening and it's just nice on a car ride yeah and there's a there's a beautiful line that i think you do teeter well frankly that you do you do teeter really really well within information value and just banter and it's not easy it's not easy to do yeah because there's some guests who will have on and i want to try and get the the good side of them out like where they're cracking jokes or whatever and i would try i would crack a few jokes and they just they're not having it and i'm like oh okay it's like being a comedian this is gonna be a serious conversation yeah it's like being a comedian and your material not landing yeah shit tough crowd all right time to pivot but if you can get a very serious person to lighten up and laugh you've done a good job that's what theo von is very good at doing yes like everybody's literally automatically prepared before going on that this is going to be a fun conversation and there's going to be lots of jokes and then you see a side to them that you would never really have seen on the podcast yeah man there's some shows that do a good job of that he's really good at it i think hot ones with sean evans is beautiful at disarming buttoned up people there's a you know todd anderson he owns dream recovery the sleep company okay he uh he has a podcast called beat the heat where i did it with him in his house in nashville and you start and you get in a sauna and he interviews you in the sauna and it starts at 180 Fahrenheit and ends at 230 Fahrenheit, which is the temperature I smoke brisket at, by the way.

1:22:11So you're literally cooking and he's asking you about, he's asking me about essential minerals and all this bullshit. And I'm like, Scott or Todd, I'm dying. Like I'm dying. I need to get out. And so I think if you can break down a barrier, whether it's through physical pain or humor, like Theo does masterfully, that's what I, that's what people want. It goes back to that vulnerability is a superpower and we're all just people trying our fucking best putting our pants on one leg at a time just like everybody else and i think the more we can remove ourselves from a pedestal or what we think people want us to be or how we're expected to be based on our own perception because we're creators with a following and just be who we are and who we feel inspired to be in the moment maybe there's a moment with a client or a follower where you feel inspired to be the guy that everyone, Mike Thurston, that people perceive you to be.

1:23:02And maybe you're just having a low energy day, but I've, I've had a hard time getting away from that people pleasing side of me personally and just being who I feel inspired to be in the moment. Cause that's probably what's best. And it's like, the more I pull myself off the pedestal and remember that Jesus washed feet, like Jesus washed feet. Why can I not reduce myself? How can I, why is that so hard for me to feel like I need to be the guy all the time, be on all the time. And the more I do that, the universe reinforces that it is probably the right decision. I've noticed this with a lot of top performers and successful people.

1:23:36You sometimes have this vision that they have everything mastered in life, that they've got to this position because they're just so good at everything. And then when you actually get to know them or speak to them or find out more about them, there's other areas of their life that are really not that good at all. For example, the common one would be these ultra successful people who are like billionaires. They've just had absolutely, they've disregarded their health. They just do not look after themselves. Terrible diet, don't exercise. It's just everything has been onto, you know, building this business and making as much money as possible.

1:24:12And then there's these other people who are also very successful in their own way. Like maybe they're very good at speaking, and they know a lot of people, but when it comes to relationships or women or whatever, they just have terrible luck they're just not good at that area in their life so i think a lot of people need to understand that those people that they look up to have definitely not mastered every area of life like everybody is flawed yeah you're spot on i was what came to mind to me immediately was the hyper monetarily successful people who are multiple divorces estranged children just or womanizers or just like can't they're missing that void they have that void and they're open about it.

1:24:52Or, you know, another thing I've noticed is there's this great video. I wish I could credit the person that made it about how he saw and met a lot of young millionaires and his, these are his words, not mine. He said, a lot of really wealthy people I've met are dumb. They're idiots, but they just tried stuff because the smart person sits and plans and thinks for months before they act because they think they have to have it done and perfect or perfect before it gets done. Meanwhile, the dumb person's tried so many different things and they're too stupid to realize, oh, I failed. Let me get that hit on my ego.

1:25:25They just keep going. I say all that to say another correlation I found is that actually some of the most successful people I have ever met that appear so put together and are put together and smart, they actually admit, like, I don't know what I'm doing. I just keep trying things and things stick. Like there's a great quote. If you want to be a successful entrepreneur, you have to get really comfortable with putting out something 60 % done and then iterating because that's the only way it gets better is if you put out something that's not great and get better at it build the plane as you fly it if you will feedback yeah exactly yeah what's your journey been like with the discovering your faith because this is something which I don't know if it's just me but I feel as though I am noticing and observing more people turning towards faith and religion.

1:26:14Now, I'm hoping it's all in good nature and people are not just being sheep and doing what everybody else is doing. But I'm curious to know what your journey has been like. Sure. I believe there is a yearning for truth and God. Again, people have tried to fill the void with everything they could, and they're realizing none of that serves them. I do think there is a regression back to conservative values, and I don't mean politically. I mean, God, the nuclear family, like people are wanting to feel truly deeply fulfilled. I mean, there's probably a reason anxiety and depression are higher than they've ever been in the world.

1:26:49People lack purpose. They lack faith. They can't seem to find it. For me, it all really occurred in the last year and a half. I was sort of in that agnostic realm, sort of the guy who would say, I mean, you would call me a lukewarm Christian is what someone in the faith would call me. It would be, yeah, there's definitely something out there, but he's not a man in the sky with a beard to be clear i still don't think that yeah about a about two years ago really about the time i started creating content and that's how i think this is part of god's will for my life is to talk about him through the platform he's given me because there have been people that study content and strategies and lighting and quality and a lot of them said like you don't make sense like you you don't have any production quality frankly it's quite shit.

1:27:33It's just me with an iPhone talking head style. I don't do anything fancy. And someone asked me once, Gabriel, one of my good friends asked me, what percentage of this is your skill set and what percentage is God's grace just gifting you with this so you steward it correctly? And I had the audacity to say 50-50. It's 100 % God's grace in my opinion now, because I don't know how any of this has happened. It's beyond my wildest dreams. I came to faith. I noticed when I said earlier, I think this is part of God's will for my life is creation, content creation to build a platform to bring people closer to him was it started happening quickly.

1:28:09And immediately after it started, I started meeting all of these people who are very devout in their faith, like immediately. And I didn't have anyone in my life who was. I thought at the time I remember thinking like, why am I meeting all these Bible thumpers? I got no interest in talking to these people. Was this like just in-person random interactions or people like DMing you? new friends, in-person interactions, getting invited to Bible studies, people DMing me, asking me to be on podcasts. Now a good friend of mine, Hampton Dortch, is a creator. And he was the first podcast ever went on. He's devout in his faith.

1:28:41And it really inspired me. It made me very curious. Looking back on it, I feel like God was putting people in my life for what was to come because my life blew up when I was 26. Everything that I knew was just about to come to a screeching fucking halt and I was not prepared for it. And I think God was saying like, you're going to need these people because shit's about to hit the fan pal. And so over the course of the next year of mid 2024, I got out of a five-year relationship. We lived together, blew up my life as I knew it, my entire adult life. And while I ended the relationship, it was still hard.

1:29:15It was establishing a new sense of normal, going through a sense of grief, if you will. Yeah. Five years is a long time. Yeah. Yeah. And it was all I had known from graduating college to being 25, 26. And so that was tough in the moment. Um, but that's obviously a long time ago. I'm far removed. What really got me was moving home to do what I thought was rebooting my life. Like, let me just move back to mom and dad's and figure out what's next. Where am I going to live? Maybe Florida. I felt like Tampa. I get home and I haven't seen my dad in about a month and he looks off. Like, Like, you know, when someone's a little ill and you can just tell.

1:29:51It's like, dad, what's up with you? You look thin. Like, you don't, you seem lethargic. What's up? And he just said, I don't know. I don't feel great. Over the next six months, he would continue to get sicker and sicker and sicker. Lose weight, lose all sense of his autonomy. And for a frame of reference, my dad was like my best friend. Like, truly, we would joke that when one of us goes, the language that we speak will die with us. Like, we were just tight as could be. I was so lucky to have a dad like that in my life. And he essentially just began to lose weight rapidly, lose muscle rapidly.

1:30:27He was in poor GI health. He would get these fainting and dizzy spells. And the diagnosis they initially gave him was cirrhosis of the liver, liver failure. But he didn't drink. So doctors were like, well, this doesn't make sense. We don't know how you got this. they went in to do a procedure through his liver and came out about 30 minutes later and called me that the surgery was done and they said i need you to come back and i had a bad feeling in my the pit of my stomach and they said the good news is your dad's liver is actually fine the bad news is the main vein that feeds blood from your dad's liver into the rest of his body is when their words i'll never forget the radiologist said obliterated he said i've never seen damage this extensive and I have never seen it in someone who doesn't have liver failure.

1:31:13I don't know what's wrong with your father. There's nothing we can do. Good luck. So it was in that moment that like we were told he was going to die. And that was October, November was around this time last year and he died January 19th of 2025. And it was tough, tougher for my mom because we never found out what was wrong with him. Like we don't know what caused it. And that was weird. At the end, some of the doctors at Emory in Atlanta, Georgia, one of the best facilities in the country, said they suspect it was lymphoma, but why didn't all the scans and blood work show it? So I say all this to say, that was the worst thing I've ever been through in my life.

1:31:53Like nothing compares to moving home and taking care of him. I'm grateful that I was put there. And that when you asked me what made me come to faith, you could not tell me if you were to look in depth at all the events of my life and the months prior leading up to that, that got me back home to spend the last seven months of my dad's life with him, my best friend, you can't tell me that was chance. The Lord put me there. After we had a call with a naturopathic doctor and my dad got up and walked out and he looked back at me and he said, I know you're here for a shitty reason. It was the breakup, whatever.

1:32:27He said, I know you're here for a shitty reason, but I think you're here for another reason too. And it's here to help me, to make sense of all the healthcare stuff. And it's the stuff I had learned that I didn't know why I was so obsessed with for so many years about health and fitness and longevity. We were using, like I was using it to help him and make him feel a little better and more comfortable. And ultimately, while there was nothing we could do, to do the things for my dad that I pray no kid ever has to do for their parent, it was traumatic. It was horrific at times. And while I'm so thankful for it, the only thing that gave me the supernatural piece that they talk about was truly building a relationship and ultimately surrendering to God, surrendering to Christ.

1:33:09Because I realized in that moment, all of the control I was trying to have over my dad's situation, arguing with doctors, pushing for more appointments, pushing him to live a certain way was actually just creating far more misery in my life. And it wasn't until I let go and just said, Jesus, whatever you will this to be, I know is in my best interest and I know is for a greater purpose in my life. And I let it go. And that was when I stopped having all the breakdowns and having the chronic emotional fatigue. And I felt the supernatural peace that they talk about. And I was able to do the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, which is get up in front of 300 people and give my father's eulogy.

1:33:46Like, I remember growing up knowing that was going to be the worst day of my life. And I got through it. and I got through it because of that surrender, because of the relationship, because of the people that he put in my life, the relationship with God, I should specify, because of the people he put in my life to disciple and carry me through that, the men, there are some really special people that came into my life at a time that I know was God-ordained, just like legitimate earthbound angels, and now I see it for what it is. I always loved the quote, and I don't know who originated it, you have a laundry list of problems until you have a health problem.

1:34:22And then you have one problem. I saw it. I saw a man who had every sense of autonomy and identity stripped from him, who I loved so much. And I understand so deeply the impact and my conviction around that being one of my core messages in my content has only grown. I see it now for what it is. It's given me so much more credibility and conviction in helping people understand how key that is. It's like, if you were sick, you care about nothing but being well. Yeah, people get really religious when they get it. Yeah, people start saying, thank God, when they've never said that before, when someone's healthy again or when they're healthy again.

1:35:02I find that so funny when we go through something horrific or someone almost gets hurt, the first thing out of people's mouth is, thank God. It's like, well, did you? Did you actually? And I talked earlier about vulnerability, opening up about the suffering that I went through and how it shaped me and changed me and gave me such an appreciation and gratitude for something that a lot of people would assume would make me bitter and hateful, it has brought people closer to God. It has had people reach out and say, like, you have inspired me to crack open a Bible for the first time, or again, for the first time in many years.

1:35:31And there's a piece of scripture in the Bible that I love, that I reference all the time. James chapter one, verse two through four. It says, count it all joy, my brothers, when you face trials of many kinds, because you know the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance run its course so that you may be complete and lacking nothing. I love that last line. What I went through with him was a gift because I maybe didn't have as much time with him as some of my friends will with their fathers, but our relationship was so incredible that I would take that over a lukewarm relationship with him for 20 more years.

1:36:08And he said to me once sitting outside, he had gotten so weak that I was just trying to get him out in the sun and we were leaning on the hood of my car, just sitting in the sunlight. And he said, I don't know what possessed him to say this, but he said, maybe our relationship is so special because we knew we wouldn't have as much time as everybody else deep down. And it was like, we almost had this deep knowing that this is how it was going to end. And maybe not specifically, but that I was going to have my father pass away sooner than people. So I say all of that to say the surrender, embracing the suffering and understanding how what I went through brought me closer to God and has allowed me to impact and help so many other people is actually a gift.

1:36:48The relationship I had with my dad, albeit for a bit shorter than I would have wanted, was a gift. I didn't lose anything. I found an incredible man that taught me how to be a man. If I'm half the man he was, I'll be proud. If I'm half the dad, half the guy, half the friend, I used to tell him, if you were a content creator, you'd have three times the following I did. He was truly special. And I understand now that every bad thing that I go through, perceivably bad, count it all joy when I face trials of many kinds, because it makes me more complete and ultimately it allows me to glorify God. And I think that that's a gift and it gives me a sense of fulfillment that is better than anything I have ever felt.

1:37:24So I know that's a long-winded answer. I appreciate you listening. That was good. Thank you. For those people who are thinking about at least starting somewhere, what advice would you give them? With their faith? yeah like people you say myself as well like i'm definitely becoming more curious about it because i've seen a lot of my very intelligent friends who've become successful they've turned to it i've also had conversations people on the podcast who are you know have very strong feelings towards this and i probably am in that stage you were at where it's like in between agnostics where like it's not that I don't believe but I'm I believe there's something and it seems more and more as I get older and I learn more there's definitely something yeah but what that is I'm not sure and I just I want to know more about it yeah everybody's got a god-shaped hole on their heart yeah that's and you become more aware of it I think sometimes success can breed it can breed the curiosity like the success to the degree that you had that is so rare not to speak for you but even in mine, I've realized like no, no worldly success has ever made me feel totally whole and fulfilled.

1:38:37No amount of attention, albeit from the opposite sex or not, has ever made me feel fulfilled. There's always something missing and it's that God-shaped hole. So that's a great, a great question because it also is something that I think people don't get practical advice on. So I appreciate you asking me, um, what I did, what really worked for me, having people in my life that are way, way ahead of me in the faith. Like if, if I'm a rookie, either a veteran helped, but practically as an individual, what I have done and has always proven to be powerful time and time again, because I have times where I fall away and I need to lock back in.

1:39:11Frankly, I'm in one of those times right now. I didn't bring my freaking Bible with me on the trip. I feel like a jackass. Is the practical advice I would give you is I asked God earnestly and openly in my own words to reveal himself to me. And I say that very intentionally. my pastor, Philip Anthony Mitchell, who's part of the, he's the pastor at the fastest growing church in the world right now, 2819. And fortunately is based in Atlanta. Watch some of his stuff. If you have some time, he says, ring out your heart in prayer. He's very against the Christian who says, Oh, heavenly father, thank you for the meal and the life you have given me.

1:39:49He's like, no, no, no. Ring your heart out. Like say how you're feeling because he knows anyway. I'll curse in my prayer. Sometimes like I joke, I say, I crash out when I pray. I don't mean to curse. I apologize in the prayer, but I talk to god like i'm talking to my dad because that's what he is, right? He's our heavenly father And I talked to him like I would have been on the phone with pop a year and a half ago and those times I really want to call My dad like this show with you This is something I want to call and tell pop about i'm gonna thank god for the opportunity But i'm gonna talk to him like you and I are here chatting and I remember With the way that I said it I said Big man, I know you've shown up for me in the past, but I fucking need something right now I need you to show me something.

1:40:27And this was very recently. And he did through a person, some pretty incredible stuff happened that again, you couldn't have told me was coincidence. So the first step is I would ask God to reveal himself to you openly, earnestly, and authentically. However that comes up, don't filter it, ring out your heart. And then I would, what I did and what I would do personally is having a Bible is really overwhelming because It's like, where the, where do I start? If you start in Genesis, boy, is that a dry read. It's not the most exciting thing in the world. So every theologian, well-versed Christian that I've talked to believes you should start in the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

1:41:09The gospels are the eyewitness accounts of Jesus and his acts while here on earth. It's also the telling of the talent of his crucifixion, the book of John and his subsequent resurrection. And like that there, I think is a really powerful place to start, like the actual story of Christ walking the earth. And then after that, what I did was I read, I went in order, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, I read just five to 10 minutes a day. as even if it was just two minutes, like I opened it every day. There's a really interesting study called the rule of four about people who read the Bible four times a week and how their life measurably improves in every positive metric and measurably decreases every negative metric.

1:41:48Separate conversation. But I try to open it every day, even for two minutes. I read that in order. And then after that, I read the book of Proverbs because funny, you'll start to realize that book in the Bible is basically the root of every self-help book on earth. Every single one. It's kind of funny. the Bible is the ultimate self-help book. Proverbs, and then I read the book of Ecclesiastes, very good entrepreneurial self-development, man, masculinity book, awesome. And then the book of Psalms, which is a collection of prayers. Once you get through that, you can do whatever you want, because I think you'll be different after that experience.

1:42:22And it's a case where you would, you continuously go back and just reread. Yes. Yeah. They say the word is alive, like the word of God is alive and it pierces between flesh and spirit. And so like, depending on where it is a sword that pierces between flesh and spirit, that's scripture. And there are times in my life where like, I read Matthew chapter six at Bible study last Thursday, and it hit totally, there are things that hit totally different than when I read it last year. And it's, it's revisiting a story and depending on where your heart and your spirit is, like your conviction about certain things will change.

1:42:51What you notice will change. It can truly, that's why people can study the book for life and be devote their life to that book and be pastors, priests, theologians. So yes, it will absolutely change us every single time I read it. The word is alive. Yeah. Yeah. I think I definitely need to start. Yeah, man. I think things will start making a lot more sense. They will. Yeah. They will. But the first step is that asking of prayer for God to reveal himself to you, however you need to say it. Don't speak in old English. Be like, I need some fucking help, dude. Ye old mighty one. Yeah. Don't speak in King James English.

1:43:27Also get an NIV Bible, new international version. Otherwise that thing is dense and hard to read. That's what I would do. And, um, I really appreciate you asking me about that. It means a lot. I feel like any, anything I can do to help inspire people and spread your message. Cause you're, you're doing a very good thing right now. Thank you. And I hope it just continues to get better and better for you. Thank you, man. It's, it's really, I must say it's an honor to be here. I told you, I've watched you for a long time, for many years. I love what you do. I'm grateful for what you do for the space.

1:43:58I think you're an inspiration and a genuinely good person. And I appreciate your time more than anything. Where can people find you? Higher Up Wellness on all platforms, Instagram, TikTok. I have a podcast on Apple and Spotify and YouTube called The Higher Up Podcast. And that's probably the best places to reach me. Awesome. Thank you very much. Thank you, brother. Appreciate your time.

1:44:28Thank you.