E140 - Billionaires Brutal Lessons On Wealth, Discipline & Building From Nothing

36:58but for example in my case 2000 2010 I raised 18 million euros and this money helped us to increase our revenues to 20 plus times we were not raising money to cover liabilities etc so and these days differently from my old days the world is very global yeah and we're sitting you're British I am Lithuania we're sitting in Dubai in apartment probably owned by Pakistani or Indian. Ukrainian. Ukrainian. So we're talking about that the global world became very linked, connected. And okay, now maybe some signs. So we think globally. We need to think globally. yeah and uh and and probably that is that that is the main point so so when you're thinking about tenor out about the new plans about about how to make money first of all you need to to understand what you want to do again rule about the plan even the smartest person without the plan will fail yes what do you do you have a plan given the current situation with the iran war the fuel prices and the thousands upon thousands of flight cancellations that have been announced?

38:29Is that going to affect your business at all? Yeah, it probably causes up to two years of the potential growth. Yeah, we reduce our fleet, but what will happen after that? there will be more aircraft in aftermarket there will be potential good deals market will so we need to buy the aircraft spare parts and etc because now prices market was overheated because of the disruption during the COVID in supply chain so right time to buy and second airline companies will be in worse shape so we cannot lease more aircraft and we will take care about their costs, more costs. And we bringing with our product reduction of the cost and we fly, we provide them capacity when we need.

39:26Not all around the year. For example, Europe, we don't need 40 % of the aircraft in winter time because people go for holiday in summer. 40%. But we keep those aircraft on the ground or flying, losing money because we have enough funds on the account. So for us, all ups and downs. Usually, if we overpassed that crisis, we usually came out stronger and stronger. Of course, now it's difficult. We need to deal with the lessors and all the communities. We need to pay attention to our customers and be flexible because we're canceling some things. But I'm assuring this year is minus 5%. Next year, again, will be plus 10%.

40:11Because last year was plus 6%. So it was trend of the growth. How does a company like Emirates do so well? Like they just announced today or yesterday that they had record profits again, despite everything that's going on. Like how have they been able to separate themselves from all these other? It's probably for 25 years. First of all, it's a unique example in the world. Unique. We're in the middle of the world. 16 hours Brisbane, 15 hours São Paulo 14 hours New York so we are in between the all central continents and we have a very good network I mean to repeat this network it takes billions and you know if I'm correctly remember 60 % of traffic via Dubai is transit.

41:13Yeah, connecting flights. Connecting flights. And if they have, if I'm correctly remember, more than 160 direct routes. So, if we would have 60 direct routes to repeat such an attractive connectivity, it will be impossible. So, we are competing in the global intercontinental traffic market, best location, right aircraft, perfect service level good infrastructure on ground and we are first I think many companies in this region in GCC they try to repeat it but Emirates in case probably some companies still have good positions as well but I think Emirates being one of the oldest airline company in the world if you do not know that older than many European companies they're the only ones that can somehow make the A380 profitable as well like a lot of other airline companies are actually getting rid of the A380 fleet but they're actually scrambling to get more and the Airbus can't even keep up with the demand that they want devil in details biggest fleet you can have attention from the OEM enough big scale and many other things and right routes because every aircraft range they have their market if you're flying long haul aircraft which can fly 12 hours you fly for 6 hours you're burning a lot of green life overspending for it so I think for this region 380s is fluently perfectly excellent matching matching routes what we're servicing I think if, let's say, similar model will be, let's assume, let's not mention any kind, but western part of the Europe, it will not match.

43:17Because to one side, lag will be 12 hours, to another side, lag will be 7 hours. And it's not full utilization of the engines. Yeah. So I think those factors meaning that we are okay. Plus another thing I think is very important. This is the biggest aircraft in the world by a number of the seats. And now plans are a little bit changed, but this year Dubai airport, DXB, should face that we will reach a limit of capacity. And if we will substitute with the aircraft, less passengers, we will lose some traffic. So, because the same slot, whatever flying, 380, whatever, 360 passengers or 777 or 350, less than 400 passengers, the same slot.

44:15So, I think for them is also very important until new Dubai South will be fully ready for transition of all the flights. Until that for them is important to operate 380s because of the Dubai airport capacity limitations. this is my personal view yeah okay so this company and the world of aviation this is would you class this is like your baby the one that you are kind of devoting most of your time and attention to or is it at the point now where that can kind of run itself and you just need to oversee how things are kind of moving because i'm spending i'm spending uh 85 percent of my time, probably working time, even more to Ava Solution Group because I have a much bigger plan.

45:08Okay. Are we keeping that a secret for now? Many things I cannot disclose. It's business ideas. We've signed NDAs but

45:24today we're covering just 10 % of our addressable market. Addressable market means theoretical market. It's an estimation of the big four consultancy companies and even ourselves. So we believe that today our addressable market is 1 ,500 narrowbodies aircraft. Okay. Biggest airline company in the world is American Airlines, 1 ,100 aircraft. So our addressable market is bigger than the biggest airline company in the world. So who can take over this addressable market? Again, to build such organization like ours, it's billions and 20 years. Maintenance infrastructure, pilot infrastructure, a lot of licensed airlines in many six continents.

46:12You need to be in six continents. So what we need, definitely we need to step into the public capital markets and start raising money buying the aircraft and managing them in the full supply chain like traditional leasing company definitely we need to buy something which is not efficient and grounding 40 percent of the aircraft in wintertime or asia pacific 20 percent or latin america 20 percent so definitely we need to be active in mna and uh you basically want them to be in the air all the time as much as possible I have a very inspiring example for me. An example. There is a shipping company, DSV.

46:54Back to 1972, they started with 10 trucks. Now it's the biggest shipping and integrating company in the world. Last company, we bought Schenker. And now we're generating close to 40 billion US dollars revenues. By far, it's the biggest. But what we were doing all the time, we were since certain level we were buying companies bigger than them yeah so we need to be big enough to buy bigger than you because if you have 10 people you cannot buy 1 000 people company but if you have 1 000 people company you can buy 2 000 3 000 people company so m &a and being in public capital is very important for any global organization and sometimes i'm i'm i'm comparing that our business is super complicated because a lot of operational is behind.

47:46Full price, labor, unions, disruption, supply, that and that and that. And sometimes I look into the tech guys. You know, sitting behind the screen, if something's not working, you just terminate your marketing program and no losses. In our business, it's impossible because we're talking about expensive aircraft, long-term obligations, and many other things. but uh if we'll reach what i have in my plan it's unrepeatable i'm sure it's a good plan it's unrepeatable because behind that is a lot of work and a lot of operations and a lot of licenses and a lot of risks which we need to over overpass so and then then we'll see but but you're doing this for, you're doing it for the love of the game, of business, or is it something else that is driving you?

48:41Because I mean, I think it's quite clear that you enjoy this. Like, I enjoy going to the gym. It doesn't feel like work. It's just a pleasure to go to the gym and lift weights. I could do that all day, every day, if it makes sense, but it doesn't make sense. I've been asked by one famous journalist what you're afraid of in your life. I said almost nothing except one thing to lose motivation. Sometimes it happens.

49:16But that day was my birthday. So ask what you want to say for your birthday. I wish not to lose motivation. currently my motivation it's it's like computer game and have free lives I started to mention this to in my native country I saw that tech guys repeating these words I don't see a lot of people who were thinking in the way so I don't want to I don't afraid to lose first life second life but we have free lives so you can fail you can not succeed it but always you need to most powerful uh weapons you always have a good strategy and you always need to shoot first so it's like a computer game so my motivation now is to win computer game and uh i don't know do you have does it ever concern you at what that might take from you personally in terms of just your energy, the time, the stress it might cause, and then maybe it might pull you away from your family?

50:32Yeah, personal life and business life is always compromise. I think people who live the way like I, I know them a lot. It's always family is challenging, challenging relationship challenging so probably partner should should should follow in in all circumstances or or or supplement uh but yeah this is the life i have five kids yeah uh and two sons already grew up so they will definitely join me yeah so i will have a forces around me Thanks with their mother So they grew up very good guys International guys No matter that they were living in Lithuania So yeah This is what you potentially can lose Personal life Personal strong life But when people discussing And some managers saying I want balance Between leisure and work Rest and work It's not me because if you have ambitious to do something big, your lifestyle is business.

51:48You can't have a balance. It's a lifestyle. You combine your holidays with your business meetings, you combine holidays with business trips, and many other things. So it's just a question, but people are different because very good comparable. What is the difference between businessman and professional senior manager? businessman in his life risks with social life and with everything at the end of the day but if he is successful he is rewarded much more than the manager the manager don't risk with his social life balance and holiday and work he sells his hours for the most expensive price what market can pay and he potentially can get some stocks if the owner is willing to share and motivate.

52:47This is the different risk, no risk. Yeah, I think there's going to be a lot of people who are on your level, who are at that level of the game where there just isn't going to be a work-life balance. And maybe there is, some people do have chapters in their lives where it's just like all out work and then maybe they can step back from the business a little bit and then employ the right people. They do their thing. You can spend a bit more time with the family or doing the thing you would like to do outside of work. But I think most people who are where they are are there because they really do love the work.

53:24No, I don't know probably personally top 10 richest people in the world, but they're tracking what we're doing. And of course, some books are probably marketing, but still. all of them heavily involved in businesses daily. So it does not work in another way. There are, of course, businesses who already have fourth, fifth generation. 7 % of those people never work. But founders and those who are in the today richest, one on 10 people list of the world with daily work yeah and and it's again balance what what you want you don't need definitely do many things i personally have a four assistants and i i hate to do technical work but i can't do it uh and delegate delegation of many things is of course uh number one rule when you're running uh businesses but uh but again uh you need to be hands-on on many things and you need to understand how it works or understand principle how how it works so discipline every day to go to work yeah and you're you're not a a flashy person you um you based on like how much you're actually worth and how much you spend i don't think you spend anything on stupid things um for those for the money that you do spend what would you say is the best uh the best money you've spent that has made your life is either easier or just more efficient to be in the best right and important place would it be private business event would it be inauguration would it be a close club meeting it works a lot so if something's happening it's like I need to get there by any means yeah if you want to be rich you should have richer friends than you around yes if you want smart you need to have smarter people around yes smarter people you can buy because we are usually spending much more on education richer people you can't you need to be there Did you ever face with a situation where you wanted to hang out with these people who were earning this amount of money, but you weren't quite there yet?

56:03You were on your way up, but you weren't at the same level as them. Did you ever find it difficult to get into those rooms or events or was it okay?

56:17It became like a natural developing stages. And it's not that I want to be there. It's probably everything is based on your achievements, your social status, etc. So it's steps. Yeah. These are steps. You have to earn your worth, you have to earn your seat table. But again, answering to your question What is worth to spend money To spend money Worth on a relationship Attention to a partner Give a gift for the birthday of the senior person It will give you Much more results Than if you spend on marketing And I'm spending on friendship Let it call friendship Business friendship I know business birthday of any of my senior partner.

57:09Yeah. Some common thing. You mentioned, obviously, you've met, obviously, other billionaires and so on. You notice the difference between those who have worked for it and have started off relatively poor versus those who have been born into wealth. Can you spot it from a mile off? You're talking about the different generations between the founders. You meet someone who's, you know, they're worth, on paper, billions. But one person has earned that themselves and come from nothing versus the other person who has come into that money from it being passed down in family businesses and so on. Of course there are differences.

57:56Of course. And I could say that probably half of the billionaires who I met in my life, very boring. And it's not easy to build a social connection. You need to have common interests. Some people like horses and everything about horses. And if you don't know anything about horses, then you will not find any common path for the discussions. And some people, everything about healthy life. and you don't know what is the best laboratorium, secret laboratorium in Switzerland, there is nothing to talk. So very different people but again, it's about a plan. If you want to build a relationship, you need to study person and you can prepare.

58:47What is it with you? Is it outside of business, like basketball? Oh, basketball, one of them. Numbers. Numbers? Numbers. Give me an example of that. In Europe, 1945 population was 550 million people, included continent Europe, Russia and Turkey. In Africa region, it was 250 million. Today in Europe, we have 746 million population and out of them 9 % immigrants. In Africa, we have 101.5 billion. 2050 in Europe forecast will be 711 and immigration will be 20 % Africa by that time will be 2.5 billion birth ratio since 20 ,000 dollars per capital per GDP stops growing since 30 ,000 dollars GDP per capita shrinking so in Europe we have 1.1 kit per mother, which is twice less than enough to keep the population on the same level.

1:00:01So you're a numbers guy. How do you know that? Have you got like a photographic memory? You read something and it stays? Numbers. I feel things via numbers. Okay. Yeah, I think I heard you say before that if somebody sends you a long lengthy email, you automatically tune up because it's impossible to delegate you need to need to say topic in two three sentences yeah i'm not an engineer i'm not accountant i i can be but i pay to people to do that job yeah i need i need to go straight to the point so yeah okay so if anybody's wanting to get in contact with you and speak to you about something keep it straight to the point simple don't waste your time.

1:00:54Usually like this. Okay. So outside of aviation, what else interests you? Many processes. I now started to be interesting in AI. I had personal investment into the one promising company. But we have founders, so I will be silent until they will IPO this company. But AI is very interesting. Many people, and I realized, because I'm very deep in details, we opened our business for that. We are studying and preparing protocols for some process management. I could say 99 % people, normal consumers, know what is AI, but we don't know how it works. You can ask, yeah, AI. And products from the shelf, it's again, it's one story.

1:01:49So, agentic AI, we have such a condition that it's, first of all, tailor-made to sector and business. And then it's an ongoing process. You need to always follow changes to make these tools working for the organizations. But unbelievably, how AI with the right usage can change people. The resistance can change companies. resistance of the people will grow with the year because when it will become massive that common works whatever, accountants administration people will lose their jobs how governments will start to regulate them regulating, do you think it's past that point though? I think regulation will come I think regulation will come like every sector.

1:02:47Like we regulate CO2, like we regulate the commodities which you are getting from the land. So regulation will come and there is no limits for fantasy how to regulate. Yeah, how does that work? Like only 40 % of your business operations can be done by AI, the rest of the world? As an example, as an example, via data regulation, via using of the of the government licenses and quotas. I don't want to predict, but theoretically governments can place quotas. But generally you're optimistic about the future of AI. Yes. Because there's a lot of people who are very pessimistic, like, oh my God, it's going to take over the world and everyone's going to be slaves to the robots.

1:03:34Yeah, we will send two billion people to space and everything will be leveraged. Speaking of space, what do you think of what Elon Musk is doing with SpaceX? I'm also a little bit aware about the industry, so what SpaceX is doing. So it's a cargo business. We need to lift goods and tons and kilograms to the space, to 100 plus area. And then, of course, we need to build there another part of the infrastructure, which will help to fly and use bigger space of the space. So what Elon Musk is doing is he will start operating rocket which can lift 150 tons. Now it's 9 tons and 7 tons of the cargo it can lift.

1:04:39And this will be a revolution in the space industry. Because we can lift big volumes of cargo. I will give you an example. Biggest cargo aircraft, it's 747-800. It carries 135 tons. So this rocket will be bigger. Is it an industry that you would maybe get into one day? I like new things, but anterior barriers are high. but definitely SpaceX potential multiples you know AI companies traded 50 100 times revenues if SpaceX will go for what 1.4 trillion pre money so it's I don't remember number it will not speculate because it's changing but it's again close to 100 BDA yeah so this industry is worth not because somebody is somebody created narrative, which sounds interesting and fascinating, it's because this is the future.

1:05:50This is the future. We had never people on Mars. And it's just a Mars. I mean, space ship flies 26 ,000 kilometers per flight hour. I remember this number. I'm not surprised and we can simply simply evaluate timing to reaching other planets but definitely it will create new industry I mean it will create it will create a full ecosystem for many reasons so interesting I don't believe in space tourism no because people need to be physically ready to fly and it's just probably three four percent of the people because pressure is so big you can lift to the space and can down yes but you cannot live in the hotel in space unless you're not professional astronaut yeah i have absolutely no interest in going to space but i do like the idea of is exploring what is outside and advancing technology and hopefully getting to the point where we can fly interstellar and figure out how to fly pretty damn fast you can uh send your robot with the google glasses and watch yeah yeah but it's interesting how the the aviation industry and airplanes haven't really changed a whole lot over the past couple of decades like it's not like like the concord came into existence and flight time sped up but then it wasn't economically viable and then they scrapped it.

1:07:31There were different reasons. They closed this program because of the potential flight safety reasons. Why is it unsafe?

1:07:45I have my view but it's I think two industries which is not developing fast because of a lot of certification and because of the anti-barriers. It's aviation and it's pharma business because in innovation, to build new aircraft from zero, it takes 20-25 years.

1:08:21Wait, to start a company or to build an aircraft. It takes 25 years to build an aircraft. Yeah. So, plus, we're talking that 140 countries involved in the aircraft manufacturing, and actually Boeja Nervas Embraer is just assembling of the components which were produced in different countries. So when we're talking about disruptions in supply chain, we're talking that during the COVID, many country production facilities reduce their labor, reduce production because less aircraft orders. And to restore them, we need to restore license, redeploy new people. It's training behind to get additional licenses.

1:09:09So it takes time, three, four, five years. So new technologies is, again, risky. If you look, composite material or carbon airframe for Dreamliner, new aircraft, new models, not using this technology because of many things. Because Boeing and Airbus, sorry, in this case, Boeing probably invest and lost a lot of money because this model is new. Maintenance, ground handling companies need to adjust their infrastructure for that. So new engines now on new models, Leap 1B, 1A, this is for Maxis. No, Maxis and Airbus, 1B Max, 1A Airbus. We're still working how to increase green life in harsh environments, which means here.

1:10:11Because new model, there is no history. It takes time. And it was happening with all previous models. so until the until the until the everything works perfectly it takes 12-15 years on wing I had no idea it took that long no for example first dreamliner 787 should enter market 2006 it's entered 2011 and until 2018 there were there were childhood problems let it call so but manufacturers should should maintain that and it's normal so every time new model it's a risk for the buyer for the operator because during the operation you're finding out something you can find something which impacts technical operational parameters so that's why innovation everything happens very slow the same in pharma production I mean clinical trials and etc etc it's extending the process of the new drug centering market.

1:11:19Speaking of pharma and just generally the health and wellness boom which is currently happening which is very interesting for me. If you were starting from scratch again and you could only start businesses within the health and wellness industry, what would you do?

1:11:42AI company AI AI company and I think data processing and results of AI usage in healthcare business will be after probably five seven years will be 99.9 percentage probability of this because we have a global global data for ai number one is data yeah i think that's yeah that's definitely where it's going to go everything is going to be fully customized you will put in your data it will tell you exactly what food you should be eating how you should be training what supplements you should be taking and then monitor that over time and see how it should change and then of course online doctor so you don't need like in I think it will come later like it came to the banking sector you know you can QIC on screen you can open account not exiting office you will get your e-card and etc so it's a digitalizing lazy commercial banks and we see one bank another bank third bank different regions and they've worth billions because we're changing environments.

1:13:01So I think the same will be in the medicine sector, healthcare sector because when we gather data managed and processed by AI, you can call to your family doctor, you have your blood results, you have other testings so you can get pretty clear recommendation what medicine and what other following steps would be. So, of course, behind the screen will have probably doctors available if you are not okay with the answers of additional advice is needed, but it will happen. But because of the regulation, the process will take longer. I know there's a lot of people who, when they come into wealth, and the older they get, they become very focused on trying to extend their lifespan and having a good quality of life for as long as possible.

1:13:54Is it something that you've thought about or you kind of don't really have time for that, you just want to focus on business? Discipline. Yeah. So are you disciplined outside of business when it comes to eating the right thing and training? Of course, regular checks and those things need to be done. And in these days, it's 80 % of the probably managing of your healthcare, personal healthcare.

1:14:24I would not don't want to expand here because then it will look that I understand everything. I don't understand because it's a very science-driven environment. I was in pharma business. I am still a little bit there, but I think next 10-15 years will have a revolution in drugs because a lot of clinic and trials will be finished. We have vaccines for cancer and other stuff. I think then comes an error of mental disease because people will live longer. But let's leave this for the podcasts. Yeah. Well, I appreciate your time. I mean, I have a million questions. I can sit here all day and just ask you questions.

1:15:20It's absolutely fascinating. um if there's one piece of advice you could give to the audience who are looking to maybe start their own business or quit their job and you know really take that leap and go for the risk what would you say to them i think uh it should be group of the people i think era of one founder super smart and super whatever it's ended

1:15:50two people two persons okay three is better so it should be each other compliment

1:16:03from the very beginning they should understand on the rules if somebody wants to exit if somebody wants if somebody will divorce and if something will happen how we will act. It's called shareholders agreement from the very beginning, day number one. So then several colleagues, shareholders agreement. Then of course we need to have a common understanding on the plan, what we want to do. A solid plan. A solid plan comes after the hours of the brainstorming, after buying market research. And if we are talking about new market, then these guys definitely need to have expertise in different fields.

1:16:44It's like sports team. yeah good movie ocean 11 oh yeah they have all of them have their own rules yeah yeah so that's a joke yeah that was true though like each each person would need to best in their sector each person would need to bring something different to the table yeah everyone would need to know that like what their roles and responsibilities you don't need two centers in the basketball team in on the court yeah you need one yeah or playmaker there are you don't need two playmakers you need one it's very true well uh thank you very much i appreciate your time where can people find you uh on instagram yeah what's the handle just your name yeah awesome thank you guys thanks for watching thank you