E148 - Why Every Man In His 20 & 30s Needs Christianity (But Won’t Admit It)

30:23well the pinnacle of all societies you know objectively is the byzantine empire which was eastern orthodox christian i mean by any metric this was the greatest empire that ever existed i mean this is why we have education and hospitals and all of these things i mean um there is there is no doubt as we've seen in numerous societies over time that when the church and the governance or the monarchy are in harmony, it's a beautiful union and the society thrives and flourishes. So I don't think that, I mean, I'm sure our society could get worse right now, at least, I mean, I live in America, obviously.

31:02I'm sure the society could get worse, but I don't know how much worse it could get before it eventually implodes on itself. You know, it's not doing well. So when you ask the question of people becoming religious I cannot speak for religion I can only speak for orthodox Christianity Because that's what I am I'm an orthodox priest, right? So what do I see with people coming to the church? What are they wanting to get away from? Pornography, lust, weed, alcohol The things, the entrapments of this world What are they doing? They're living a life of prayer Of fasting and church attendance Right? so they're so how is this not a ben and they want to get married right a lot of i mean what we're seeing kind of which is prolific which is it's mostly young men in the 18 to 35 year old range which historically have never been moved by religion in any way shape or form at least not in the last 50 hundred years or more there's what we see right now is is kind of almost uncharted territory, just the sheer numbers of people that are coming and the profundity of the way in which they're embracing this life of asceticism.

32:17Asceticism means self-denial. It's voluntary suffering for the sake of the kingdom of heaven, right? This is the long church services, the standing, the fasting, the prayer, all of these things that are self-denying. Even you could say lifting weights is an ascetical, an action, right? It is something that is not comfortable and not easy, but most of lifting weights can be beneficial, but it can also become obviously neurotic. It can become egotistical. It can become vanity, all of those other things. But purely the spiritual disciplines, prayer, fasting, church services, for the sake of deepening one's union with Christ?

33:03I mean, what are the reasons for doing that if you're giving up sin? Right? I mean, so you can post on Instagram or something. I mean, people like that are not going to last. And the majority of people are not even posting online or doing any of these things. They're just living the life. Yeah. They're just living the life of prayer and fasting. And they're just doing it in the church. And I mean, it's... People often think that physical feats are difficult, whatever, like going through boot camp or Navy SEALs or all these different things. And there are. There is a degree to physical suffering that's involved there.

33:41But the life of becoming an Orthodox Christian is truly one of deep self-denial. It's completely different. It's completely different. And on top of that, you know, then the devil is trying to keep you from it all the time. So not only are you battling your own flesh, your own desires, but you're also battling the devil who's constantly trying to discourage you. I can't imagine why anyone would do this for any reason other than Christ. You know what I mean? Mike, I'm married. I have six kids. Why would I do this? Why would I have such a big family and all these responsibilities if I wasn't taking up my cross and following after Christ?

34:24it wouldn't make any sense it wouldn't make any I would tell anybody this this is why when people are trying to sell you on something they're always saying listen this is the benefit if you do these things blah blah blah blah blah the life of a Christian is the life of martyrdom it's the life of self-denial it is as St. John Chrysostom he said the Christian trades this life for the next life there is an intangible union that we have with God and this peace that starts to happen that comes into our souls. But this life is one of tremendous self-denial and temptations and warfare till our last breath.

35:03The easiest thing to do is to not be a Christian. That's the easiest thing. The hardest thing to do is to be an Orthodox Christian. That's the hardest. So I want to know clearly what is the definition of a good Christian. So I think in particular in regards to marriage, relationships, children, what are the guidelines or recommendations when it comes to that kind of thing? Is it no sex before marriage? Is it, if you're going to have kids, you have to be married? Is there a certain age that you should be married? Like what, is there like a playbook or does it depend? Yeah, I mean, I generally speak to young men and tell them the best is to get married as young as you can, if possible, because it just keeps you out of so many problems and temptations.

35:56Anytime you wait to get married, you're just opening the door to temptations. But you ask fundamentally, what is a good Christian? It's not about marriage. It's not about children. It's, you know, Christ gives us basically kind of three instructions in regards to the Christian life. He says, deny yourself, take up your cross and come and follow me. In that order, denial, self-denial, embracing the cross, and then following after Christ. So for each person, there's going to be a bit of nuance in how that looks in their life. I mean, we can talk about kind of the general rules and guidelines of like, of course, no sex before marriage and having children and being married and being faithful to your wife and all of these different things, of course.

36:44But fundamentally, it's going to look a little different for each person depending on their age where they're at and whatever else the goal is to take up that cross in self-denial and follow after christ that's what it fundamentally means and that involves going to church reading the bible what sure yeah what else would it consist of because i'm i don't really i don't really know that's why i'm asking i want to know yeah yeah Yeah. Let's think about it this way. The best way to think about it is to correlate the Christian life to weightlifting. You understand weightlifting. Yeah. Yeah. I understand knee lifting, right.

37:25We understand a program. We understand that programs produce results, having something structured. We know that it's repeatable. And we also know that whatever we do in the day passes to the week and the week forms the month and the month forms the year. So we have to distill everything down to what does a weekly life of an Orthodox Christian look like? every day waking up and praying to start the day in prayer. This varies for each person depending on how many children they have, how busy their life is, whatever else, right? But the morning prayers are typically 15 to 25 minutes-ish where the person awakes and they begin to establish that connection with Christ.

38:06Then, of course, throughout the day to live the commandments, to do unto others as we would have them do unto ourselves, ourselves to not judge people to love our enemies all of these things that we're striving for that are laid out in the gospels this real kind of true moral life then in the evening what do we do we say our evening prayers this is a very simplistic understanding of the day now for us as orthodox christians on wednesdays we fast from all animal products because we remember that christ was betrayed on Wednesday by Judas. So we keep a vegan fast on Wednesdays. Of course, we're doing our morning and evening prayers.

38:47On Fridays, we fast as well, keeping a vegan diet, because we are denying ourselves and we are remembering the crucifixion and the suffering that Christ did for our sake. This is us denying ourselves, denying ourselves the desires and the pleasures of food in order to cultivate our soul so that our soul is in charge of our body. Then on Saturday, same thing. We wake up, we do our prayers. Saturday night, we go to the vigil service. The vigil service is about two and a half hours. Give or take, people should stay for at least an hour and a half. We stand and we pray with all of the other Christians within our community.

39:25And then on Sunday morning, this is for somebody who is baptized, we go to the Divine Liturgy on Sunday morning. We receive the body and blood of Christ. And then we eat a meal together afterwards. and then Sunday evening, we do our prayers again. So we have every day, morning and evening prayers. We have fasting on Wednesday and Friday. Then we have the services on Saturday night and Sunday morning. Now, in my parish, we also have weekday services, but we're speaking generally for the person who's working a nine to five. That's kind of the life of what it looks like. That's kind of the basics.

40:00You know, maybe on Saturday night, if we're baptized, we go to confession. We go, we talk to the priest about the sins that we've committed that week. We receive some counsel about the things that we're struggling with. We prepare ourselves to receive the Eucharist. This is a very simple snapshot. If somebody just does this for a week, this becomes into a month, and then eventually this obviously becomes a year of their life. This process is hugely transformative. And of course, ideally, reading a bit of the scriptures every day, maybe reading a bit of the lives of the saints every day, nourishing our minds as well.

40:37So we pray, we also nourish our minds with remembering the spiritual life, the principles of the spiritual life and how we're supposed to conduct ourselves. And then throughout the day, what is the Christian doing? Throughout the day, the Christian is saying the Jesus prayer, Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. He's praying throughout the day. He's always continually trying to establish or continue that relationship with Christ. He's continually trying to turn his heart, the eyes of his soul towards Christ so that he's unified with Christ at all times and in every moment. So St. Paul says, you know, basically pray always, be always at prayer.

41:20This is that life of the Christian. You know, this is why Orthodox Christians have the prayer rope, right? Because we get so many thoughts throughout the day, so many thoughts that we need to ignore, so many temptations that are around us. We continually are turning ourselves back to Christ. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. We're not saying it like we're afraid of lightning bolts. We're saying it like a man who is drowning in the swamps, and we can't get out of our own sin. We need Christ to continually be pulling us out of our thoughts, of our temptations.

42:02But in this way, as we begin to practice this life of prayer and asceticism, what happens to the soul? The soul becomes more alive. The soul begins to breathe. The soul, the person begins to feel human again, truly human, because they're united with God, which is what it means to be human. They have that connection with God When that happens, then psychologically they find the peace They find some stability Of course they have troubles, of course they have struggles Of course maybe they have emotional moments Whatever else and temptations get to them But predominantly the life becomes one of stability Stability That's what it means But that's not something that somebody just accomplishes on their own.

42:55Everything is accomplished through the help of God. I say it's kind of a great analogy. It's the best analogy, especially if you lift weights. It's like the sins and the temptations of this life are so profound. It's like a bench press that you can't lift off your chest. So you're pressing as hard as you can, but the bar is not budging, really. We need God's help. This is the power of the Holy Spirit to come, grab the bar, and simply lift with us. So we still have to push and put forth effort, but God is lifting our temptations with us. Because the temptations and the trials of this life are astounding.

43:34If we don't have God's help, we're just going to be crushed beneath the weight of them. But all of these things... Yeah, go ahead. I would imagine that this is something where... someone would maybe kind of gradually ease into this and then over time, you know, they get better and better at being a good Christian. I mean, I'm sure there's some cases, but from somebody who was beforehand non-religious to going to what you've described, that's quite a transformation. Have you seen that happen to someone like that? Or is it something that kind of improves on a week-to-week monthly basis? Well, the progress is eternal, right?

44:21Because we're becoming more like God, and God is eternally beyond us. So not just in this life, but in the age to come, man will forever be progressing towards God. Yeah. I see this quite a bit here. I'm based in Dubai, and obviously it's predominantly a Muslim country, And, you know, there's some individuals who I've observed who claim to be religious and particularly during the month of Ramadan, you know, they do what they're supposed to do during Ramadan. But as soon as that month is over, they go back to their old habits, which, to be honest, is quite unholy. And I just think, you know, you're not really taking this seriously.

45:04like you're kind of like you're going in like you're like doing this 20 percent 30 percent you're not like fully religious like you claim to be and i think that that annoys me a little bit when i see people who claim to be religious but they're not actually they don't practice what they they preach their actions don't match their words yeah i mean i think certainly it would be like again it would be like somebody who says i'm really into fitness and they're always going and eating fast food at some point you'd be like i don't think you're into fitness bro you know like i don't think you i don't think this is something that you're really interested in they're like no no no no i love to talk about fitness i like to talk about it you know it's very important to me you're like yeah but it's not your life this is where i would say when you said Do people get better over time?

45:58Of course. But it's, again, I think of these things like in language that we can both relate to, which is like, which is like weightlifting. You know, somebody says, you know, Mike, I want to get in shape. I'm out of shape. What do I do? You don't just tell them, Hey, just do a little bit. Don't do it. Just do a little bit. And then eventually do a little bit more. Don't inconvenience yourself too much. in my experience those people do not last or make very much progress right you need people who want to go in on it because the people who go in on it are the same people who make strides and they make progress it's the same thing with the spiritual life if somebody says maybe i'll just wake up and pray for five minutes it's like that's not going to really push you very far is it it's like somebody saying i'm going to go to the gym but i'm only going to do 15 minutes and then I'm going to keep my diet the same.

46:53Yeah. Okay. But after a month, you're going to get tired of doing this because you're not going to see very much progress, if any progress. It's not going to move the needle. You need to actually be somebody who wants to kind of jump in with both feet. It has to be something that you want to embrace. Do you want to know Christ or do you just kind of want to know about him? Do you want to be a person who is integrating your life into Christ and actually pushing yourself forward to make spiritual progress? Or is it just kind of like, this is my weekend religion. This is something that I do when it's convenient.

47:30I don't want to be too overly inconvenienced. In which case, it's like, yeah, but you're not going to make much spiritual progress. That makes sense. It's the same principle if we think about it, right? The principles of God undergird the entirety of the universe. So the same principles that relate to fitness or business, there is a certain correlation in which they also relate to the spiritual life. What is that? Having a plan, having diligence, having self-discipline, having execution, having self-denial. Those same qualities and characteristics, when applied to the spiritual life, when you actually have something to put your hands to, are inevitably going to begin to change and transform your soul.

48:19and and much like honestly much like newbie gains a person at the very beginning who actually starts to put forth some effort when they've never put forth any effort will see tremendous growth they don't see very little growth they see tremendous they're like i used to do all these things you know they come to me they're like i used to do all these things father now i'm not doing them anymore like it's a profound change people have been struggling with addictions for decades and then they're not doing it anymore they're not participating in it anymore they're like what's happening this is the power of god this is the power of the holy spirit that's beginning to act upon them the changes are profound especially at the beginning especially at the beginning all right guys quick pause here i've got a question for you are you in shape are you not in shape is there work to do most likely if so i have the tool for you which is going to help you out massively.

49:13It's the thirst app. This is something which I personally use myself when it comes to my training and my nutrition. I have all the programs in there which I use on a regular basis and for those who are just looking to lose a bit of body fat. The same thing goes for women as well. A lot of people don't realize that I used to coach for a large chunk of my life so all of my coaching experience has been put inside of this app. I want you to learn as much as possible about how to get yourself in shape. There's exclusive videos in there telling you how to do it, how to execute exercises properly the foods which i eat and a newly added nutrition section where you can track your meals and your daily macros is pretty much this pocket-sized version of myself which can carry around with you all day every day so if there's something which might interest you which it definitely will do i highly suggest to check out links in the description head over to the thirst app get it downloaded you will not regret it let's crack on with the episode I have quite a lot of listeners who are entrepreneurs and they are looking to start their own business and just generally improve their life in many areas including their career now let's take somebody for example who who's Christian and they're you know they're a proper Christian now they go on the pursuit of building a business it's a good business you know they're not scamming people.

50:35It's creating value. It's employing people. And then it ends up doing very well. And that individual ends up becoming very wealthy. They have a lot of money. For somebody who's in that situation, do they then have a responsibility to to donate to share the wealth or has there really been anything said upon that because the future times are very different from times in the past so we can only really kind of take what has been said and try to apply it to modern times which may get lost in translation but i've always been curious to know for those christians who do end up becoming very successful financially what are they then supposed to do so there's a couple things that we would say are important number one is i'll speak for myself okay i'll speak for myself i have a school group that i do where i really striving to provide content and a community where people can make spiritual progress right?

51:49It's very inexpensive. Okay. Now it does generate, but it also pays somebody to help me with it and all of these other things. The same principle in that is the same principle that I've always held in life, which is to tithe, to give 10%, to give at least 10%. I mean, this was the Old Testament standard, but it obviously becomes greater in the Christian life. But the undergirding principle is I work hard. I ask God to bless the work of my hands, but then I also understand that everything that God entrusts me with, I'm just a steward of it. It's not mine. I don't own it. I don't own my bank account.

52:28I don't own my money. That's not the correct perspective for me as a Christian. Everything that I have, I'm a steward of, right? It's like I'm the financial manager of the bank account that God has blessed me with. So what do I want to do with that? I want to utilize the things that God has given me in order to use that money in a way that blesses other people. It cannot be just all about me. Bank accounts are just ones and zeros. That's all they are. Money is the, you know, there's a Saint Gavrilia, she said, you know, money is the cheapest thing in the world. If somebody thinks that they're going to have, I mean, money solves some problems in life.

53:09It certainly, I mean, money doesn't make you happy, but neither does being poor. I can speak from experience on that, okay? Likewise, though, money doesn't make you happy. It doesn't make your relationships good. It doesn't make you healthy and functional as a person. And many people get within the trap of thinking if they seek after more ones and zeros, that there is going to be some kind of contentment or something or an intangible that's going to happen to their soul that never happens. Money does not change the soul. It doesn't make a man feel fulfilled. It's just stuff. So the thing is, we have to be good stewards with it.

53:45So when you ask me, like, what does a person do? Well, that's according to each person's conscience. So there's both the principle of generosity that I need to have that guiding me throughout my life because I need principles. But then there's also the fact that we need to be generous with the things that have been bestowed upon us. I'm going to leave this life And I don't know when I'm going to leave it Mike I mean I could leave it tomorrow I don't need more stuff in my bank account I don't need those sort of things I need to use the money wisely To bless my family, my children But my children, you know, they don't need to be Living some kind of extravagant life That's, I mean it's so corrupting Too much money is Too much money is more dangerous than poverty When I grew up in Southern California I lived in an area that was very poor.

54:37And then I lived in an area that was very wealthy. Now, my family was never wealthy. My family basically was middle class at best, but we didn't have much. But I saw so many people that I knew that had real wealth. Some of them, I don't want to say astronomical wealth, but they were extremely wealthy. Do you remember back in the 90s, there was a show called MTV Cribs? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, musicians and movie stars and all this people that I knew had better houses than the houses that were on MTV. OK, and when I saw that in person, I did not see deep contentment or fulfillment. It really it showed me profoundly firsthand the rates of divorce, the rates of dysfunction, the people that needed to be medicated, all the problems with the kids, kids going in and out of rehab.

55:36money does not does not fulfill a person a person in that way it doesn't bring meaning and purpose to your life i think there's there's there's a sweet spot i guess because you need to be earning enough to provide for your family put food on the table and also you know i'm i'm quite sure that a a lot of unhappy marriages or relationships that don't work out are likely to occur if the man has not got his finances in order money money and and uh sex are the two biggest struggles in marriage right yeah yeah but then obviously statistically money is absolutely a necessary part of this life. It is.

56:26Yeah, I tell anybody that. I mean, even young men, when they ask me, I'm like, get a career where you can make at least a decent amount of money, because if you're going to have kids and a wife and whatnot, and you want your wife to stay home with your children, you're going to need money to be able to do that. So yes, there is a certain aspect of which money is a necessity in this life, but it never crosses over to the point where money brings contentment or fulfillment. it that's where i was on the line i always find it interesting when i you know especially now in the world of social media and people showing off yeah i've seen this more than once where somebody would post a picture of you know them and their new lamborghini and the caption would be thank god i'm like hmm i don't know that he would want you to do that to be honest this is this is why i said But we are stewards of our bank account.

57:19The things that God has blessed us with, we need to make sure that our hearts are aligned in the right way with the handling of that in such a fashion that God would be pleased. Do you think there is such a thing as a good billionaire? A good billionaire? I mean, again, I don't judge anybody's heart. I mean, am I a good person? I don't even think I'm a good person. Hmm. Okay. So, I mean, I don't think there's a good billionaire, just like I don't know if there's a good priest in a sense, right? Every person has to go through that process and understanding that what makes somebody truly Christian and transformative is the power and the presence of the Holy Spirit.

58:07This is what transforms and changes a person, but they don't own it because the Holy Spirit is a person. There's a famous monk of Mount Athos. His name is St. Joseph the Hezekiah, one of my favorite saints. And he lived a very ascetical, brutal life in the wilderness, steeped in prayer. His whole life was just prayer. And he says, if the Holy Spirit left me, I would go out into the world and I would commit great sins.

58:39Father Moses:so he was under no kind of delusion that he was and had become some great person do you see any correlation between people being religious versus how wealthy they are for example if you become more wealthy do people tend to become less religious? Yeah, I mean, it's... You know, what does Christ say? Christ says it's easier for the camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter into heaven. Hmm.

59:46drive them crazy. It begins to drive the main character crazy. There's a certain curse that's on all gold, not just that goal. There's a certain something intangible with wealth that begins to make a person mentally unstable. And they begin to crave more and more of it, and they begin to lose sight of this life, and that this life is temporary, and that this life was made as a preparation for the next life. There's a certain madness that overtakes people. So is being wealthy,

1:00:23Father Moses:like does it have a lot of potholes? Absolutely. Yeah. What do you think happens to us when we die? In your opinion, what happens in the afterlife? We encounter Christ. We see Christ. Christ sees us. And that is everybody. Yeah. Regardless of whether they're religious or not, or if they are practicing another religion. Yeah, there's only one God, which is the triune God. And every person will encounter him. That's it. And then every person who will be revealed, whether or not they actually want to be with him or not. People who don't want God in this life will not want him in the next life. This is a great humor that people, you know, people kind of think that God is kind of casting people into heaven and casting people into hell.

1:01:20And he's kind of, you know, in this way, there's a certain imagery in which God is separating. But the Holy Fathers, meaning the church fathers, they speak extensively about the fact that people themselves choose heaven and hell. Their life is their proclamation or declaration of what they really want. Do they really want to be with God for all of eternity, or do they not? Are they prepared to encounter him? The Holy Fathers, they say that God is light. He's this uncreated light, this eternal light. There are these energies, this divine energy that radiates out from him. And they say that this light, when a person encounters it, will either be like a warmth, illumining their soul for all of eternity, bringing consolation, drying the eye, wiping away sorrow.

1:02:10They will have this peace and this harmony of this light Because they have been preparing their life And their soul To encounter this light Or they say this light will become like fire It will become unbearable for people But each person

1:02:27Father Moses:Their lifetime is given to them To prepare to encounter God So Do you think of people If they didn't get it right they get another chance to prove themselves no this is not this is why time is our most valuable possession this is why i i find it interesting because there's there's some people who they just they're born with you know they get a short straw they're maybe brought into this world in the most extreme of environments, whether they have, I don't know, an illness, a disease, a disability, bad parents, you know, brought up in a childhood full of violence, drugs or rape. For those people, you know, I would imagine they would have a much harder time finding God and religion versus somebody who was born into quite a privileged life isn't that the conundrum though isn't that the conundrum that those are the people who typically find god it's true like yourself you i mean you've but that's the conundrum i mean you would say like look a person who has everything stacked against them in life who suffered abuse all kinds of difficulties all kinds of dysfunction you say Listen, everything is stacked against them to find God.

1:04:06And yet the great irony is that those are the people who so desperately need God and seek after him. And he's the one that he, they are the ones that he reveals himself to. True. But not everybody will have that though. Like some of those people will go on to do horrible things and maybe never find God.

1:04:27Father Moses:Of course, but this isn't God's fault. Hmm. We have to remember that God made us like himself with a great nobility, a great calling in life. To be united to God is not some small thing. We are created finite beings. He is uncreated and eternal. And he desires to be in union with us. That is a profound mystery. What does a world look like if Everybody came to this realization And accepted Christ What do you think the world would look like? Well it would not be heaven on earth Because people would remain people People would commit sins People would do things wrong But Life would be much greater for everyone Than it currently is people want a utopia in this life they want everything to be perfect in this life that will never happen no i think something which is interesting to me is the is what would happen if the government comes out with disclosure and announces that there is life on another planet or that aliens are real, does this have an effect on anything?

1:05:57Does it change religion? Would religious people have second thought? Or do people become more religious? Yeah, I mean, I think the thing is, is that the question always becomes, who is Christ? Who is he? Is he God? Is he God that became man, that dwelt among us, that rose from the dead? If that reality is true, then anything regarding quote-unquote extraterrestrials, which I think are just demons, doesn't even make a difference. It doesn't even matter. The greatest revelation in human history is Christ And all of human history testifies to this There is no single person that is even a close second To who Christ is and the way that he has Changed the world, societies, culture For thousands of years There's no close second So if somebody said, well, could we find out that there's aliens and that that would kind of somehow usurp the revelation of christ i mean come on christ rose from the dead yeah he just yeah there is nothing there is nothing that you can tell me that is more profound than that reality why do you think he chose to show himself at that specific point in time and yeah why would he not do it now when you know we could be a point where we really need him or maybe so much has been lost in translation that he'd be like hey guys wait wait wait we didn't this is not what i meant by this we we have him though we have him now i mean why did he come then i mean there's a multitude of I'm sure, factors that only are known to him.

1:07:52I mean, he's God, he's perfect. He chose the perfect time. And he came through, you know, what the Holy Father say was the most, basically perfect woman that was ever born. The mother of God, the Theotokos, Mary.

1:08:09Father Moses:She was the greatest that humanity ever had to offer.

1:08:19Father Moses:yeah that's that even in and of itself is a mystery but it's it's you know he didn't just choose some virgin the the when we look at the old testament we see that the spirit of god traveled in the ark of the covenant well the ark of the covenant was this box that had carvings on it of angels, which is imagery, and no one could touch the Ark of the Covenant or they would die. Nobody who was not allowed to touch the Ark of the Covenant could touch it. It would kill them. The Mother of God is the new Ark. The old Ark in the Old Testament was a precursor so that people understood that when the Mother of God came, that Christ would dwell within her virginal womb.

1:09:12She was not just a simple person or a young woman who was a virgin. Much more profound than that. But even that is a mystery. The thing that's interesting is we don't kind of focus on that because the greater miracle is that Christ became incarnate. Now, we obviously acknowledge who the mother of God is. She's just not some simple person, and we cannot emphasize that enough. But the greatest revelation is Christ becoming incarnate. But very clearly, he was waiting for her to be born so that he could dwell within her because he's the uncontainable God of the universe, and yet he was contained within her virginal womb without destroying her.

1:10:04There is something going on there that is much more profound than people realize Her exceeding purity in the way that she was Her love for God, her devotion to God In all of these ways made her a worthy candidate The only worthy candidate to carry Christ within her

1:10:35so for somebody who i like myself who's who wants to know more is curious about all of this where would i even begin is it a matter of picking up the bible and i start reading the bible so i'll give you kind of like my general recommendations that i kind of give everyone Okay. I would recommend reading a book by Blessed Theophylact. I can send you over the link or you can put it however, but it's T-H-E-O-P-H-Y-L-A-C-T. Blessed Theophylact. Philact. He has a commentary on the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I always recommend people read the commentary on the Gospel of John because you read through the Gospel of John, but you read his profound, profound insights into the life of Christ.

1:11:30That's where I would start with that, with the Gospels. Secondarily, I would always recommend getting a prayer book. I recommend the prayer book that's put out by Holy Trinity Monastery in Jordanville, New York. You can buy it on Amazon, off of Amazon, anywhere in the world. I always recommend reading the gospel, commentary, and beginning to read some morning and evening prayers, just every day. And then, of course, going to the Orthodox Church on the weekend for services. Very, very simple. very simple mike very simple okay it's it's again mike if somebody told you i don't know if weightlifting is going to fix me or change me or make me healthy you would say your belief has nothing to do with it it either is going to work or it's not going to work and the reality is that it works you don't have to believe in weightlifting if you go to the gym and lift weights it will be transformative right if you follow a good program and you start to do what you're supposed to do, you will see changes.

1:12:31That will happen. It's the same thing with the spiritual life. If you begin to earnestly pray, you begin to earnestly read, you begin to earnestly ask God to reveal himself, you begin to go to church, you will change. You will change. I've just seen it innumerable times. It just works. That's the way that real medicine is. This is why the Holy Fathers, they say, the church is a hospital for the soul. It heals the soul. It changes the man. If somebody says, I don't believe in antibiotics, you know, the doctor would be like, I don't care if you believe in antibiotics either, but just take them every morning and evening for 10 days.

1:13:17Don't skip any. And you are going to get well. It has nothing to do with belief at that level. it's that is the medicine of the church if i begin to sincerely seek and i begin to put forth effort that effort will be seen by god and god will come

1:13:41and for example you're the school community what what does the community consist of is it Are people in there sharing experiences and stories about themselves, or are you providing more guidance and value to them? Yeah, so I try to do something, basically, I look at my own life. I really gave my life to Christ when I was 18, but I was Protestant. It did not, it had a, I could say it had a very profound effect on me, but there was much that was lacking because there was no structure. There was no sacraments. It was just kind of read your Bible and go to church on the weekend kind of thing. It wasn't, it wasn't immersive.

1:14:27It wasn't a full lifestyle, right? It was like trying not to sin and doing a little bit of religious stuff. and it helped me, but it wasn't as profound as when I became Orthodox when I was 25. That's when I began to see the real transformation and change in my life. So the school group is the last 20 odd years of my experience, how to find a spouse, how to have a healthy marriage. We do a weekly Q &A where people can ask questions about what's going on. We're coming out with a whole fitness course because people always ask, like, just give us some basic instruction on fitness. So it's about learning in the classroom, right?

1:15:14The videos that we provide on things that are practical and related to life and living life and having a healthy marriage, finding a spouse, all of those things that were pertinent to me that when I came into the church, in some ways, I was kind of just figuring it all out. Now, I was already married when I came into the church, but figuring out how to have a good marriage, figuring out how to have a good spiritual life. That's the goal. I think that finding a good spouse is so important in today's world. I think, I mean, that's something that's either going to break, make or break you as a man.

1:15:50And I think for the, for the younger men, I find it's harder for them to be able to tell who's right, who's wrong. I think for someone like me, who's now 35, soon 36, I've had the experience. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've had the highs and the lows. I'm a much better judge of character where I know, okay, is this person a suitable partner? Would she be a good mother? I'd be a lot more confident in saying either yes or no. Whereas take me back 10 years ago or in my early 20s, I just, I wouldn't know. And I think a lot of guys, and particularly if you're saying it's better for you to get married sooner rather than later, if you're going to be making a big decision like that, you really need to get it right.

1:16:41And I think that's where, you know, your guidance and more people need to be giving out good advice to guys to steer them in the right direction. Yeah. I think that, I think the preparation for marriage course, like the, just finding a spouse and figuring that out is like four or five hours long of just talks on that, how to find those things. Because, uh, you know, I'm blessed. I, I, I got married when I was 20 years old. I've been married 24 years. So I was very blessed, but I saw the qualities in my wife when I was young that I knew were amazing and that she has grown into and far exceeded my expectations.

1:17:22But the thing is, is that we need to understand that marriage is a union that's a martyrdom. It's not simply for making ourselves happy or making ourselves fulfilled. If we're looking for self-contentment and self-fulfillment through marriage, we're never going to find it. this is the kind of this is kind of the conundrum of Christianity the conundrum of Christianity is that you know going back to those three principles Christ says deny yourself we think well I want to be fulfilled I want to be happy I want somebody who compliments me and he says deny yourself deny yourself find somebody that you can die for also which is the bearing of the cross and they are willing to die for you the mutual martyrdom of marriage.

1:18:13Because if you have the outlook in marriage that like marriage is going to make me happy, marriage is going to make me content or fulfilled or whole as a person, you're going to be miserable. It doesn't do that. Marriage is the process of making somebody holy. This is why these things don't work outside of the church. Because it's the transformation of becoming like Christ. And if you're becoming more of yourself, of selfish and self-centered and ego-driven, a marriage will never work within that context. And if the person that you're married to, or even that you're dating, is self-referential in this way, they're only looking at themselves, they will never truly be able to bear the cross and deny themselves within the marriage and die for Christ within the marriage so that the two of you can live in harmony.

1:19:06It takes two people who are completely looking at Christ and ready to die to themselves. This is even why you can have many children within this context. Because if you're just having kids for the sake of being happy, you know, you have one or two kids and then you're like, oh, now I'm, this is enough. I don't want to inconvenience my life. I don't want to have more kids. I certainly don't want to have a bunch of kids because then it's going to really throw my life off. It's going to take away from my happiness. Because this is the thing that the devil tells people. The more that you take care of yourself, the more you focus on yourself, the more selfish and self-centered you are, the happier you're going to become.

1:19:50And so people continually seek after everything and all the pleasures and all the things that they think are going to fulfill them in life. And then they find themselves just meaningless and purposeless, without any depth, with a gnawing sense in their soul that something is off because this life is fleeting. It's dying. And you start to really get that sense in your 30s. By the time you hit 40, you're like, I'm probably more than halfway over. And what has happened? What do I have to show for it? What have I accomplished? What is my legacy? See, it's like two different things that we want, Mike.

1:20:26We want to feel whole and we want to have meaning and purpose. Feeling whole only comes from God. Meaning and purpose only come from Christ. They don't live intrinsically within ourselves. They're not something that we can kind of cook up or define for ourselves. This is the absurdity of somebody buying a Ferrari and saying like, oh, God bless me with this Ferrari and now it's like but I posted on social media now I'm the Ferrari guy and I'm so blessed you know what I mean like okay

1:21:06Father Moses:there's nothing to that there's nothing to that there's no left to be the amount of people who've said once they became a father I mean this is like my friends it was like one of the best things they ever did. One of the greatest feelings that they'll ever experience. And for sure, it's something, it will happen. I want kids. But I feel as though, you know, maybe there are some people who just, they don't want to be a father or they don't want to be a mother. And I think, you know, they're entitled to have their own opinion. And despite the fact that they will get pressured into having kids, you know if if they don't want them is it just best for them not to have them because you know i don't think anybody should really be having kids if they're not willing to be a good parent but then at the same time how do you know if you're not going to be a good parent because maybe once you have the kid your mind will completely change i think it's i think it's a backwards way of looking at it what i would say mike is like there are people every day who only purpose and meaning for existence is to go and shoot heroin.

1:22:25And they don't want to have kids. There are people every day who wake up and they only want to make money and they don't want to have kids. Just because people don't want to have kids does not mean that they're healthy and well-adjusted. There are lots of people who are selfish and self-centered, but the things that people find socially acceptable are like, you can be obsessed with work and money and all of these things, and that's acceptable, but it's not acceptable, you know, to just want to get high every day. The reality is that there's something brutally inhuman about both. Seeking after stuff as a way of fulfillment or seeking after getting high as a way of fulfillment shows that the person has something that is intrinsically kind of warped about them.

1:23:06I'm not saying that to judge them. I'm just saying that that's, you know, there are people who want to eat fast food every day, three meals a day. And they feel like trash, but they crave eating fast food all day. It's not that we would say, well, that's healthy. We may say that's what they like, but it isn't healthy. The experience that you're describing when people have a child, especially as a man, especially as a man, it's very different for women, but especially as a man, When that baby comes out You know that there's an aspect of your existence That's no longer about yourself Yeah

1:23:51Father Moses:And the thing is If you only want to live for yourself Then that child is a burden But if you see that there is something greater And there's a deeper meaning and purpose to life Then it's a profound reality Every time we have a child I've been there for all six births Every time we have a child I mean I You know I just weep It's so

1:24:23It's

1:24:24Father Moses:It's beyond words man It's beyond words It's They're

1:24:34Father Moses:They're a person They're distinct from you But they come from you and somehow they're under your protection, your guidance. They're dependent on you. It's a beautiful mystery. Oh, my wife told me the other day, she's like, I could have 100 babies. I'm like, well, but that's like, when she says that, I go, man, I married the right person. That's, you know what I mean? That's like, she loves, we have a six-month-old right now. I'm like way too old to have a six month old, but God continues to bless us. And so we continue to have children. But, but yeah, you see that little baby in the morning. It's amazing.

1:25:22I mean, it's, it doesn't stop. It doesn't stop being amazing. Now it's exhausting. Oh my goodness. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. Having children every single day, every single day is a marathon. it is every day is a marathon but the question is that self-denial and that self-sacrifice is it worth it of course of course yeah does it concern you that in many countries the birth rates are going down and you know couples are choosing either not to have kids or even not to get married at all is does it worry you i mean it doesn't totally concern me because in the orthodox church we're getting married and we're having lots of kids okay so what you're saying is you're saying you know on some level forgive me but what you're saying is society has become more dysfunctional and more self-centered and the people who are more self-centered are not having children i'm like well that doesn't overly concern me.

1:26:30The thing that encourages me is the people who want to see everything in society flourish for Christ are having lots of children. Glory to God. That's good. Glory to God. Have you ever had a scenario where someone's come to you who is very, very religious uh a devout christian and they've fallen in love with a either a woman from another faith or someone who's just simply not religious what advice would you give them the thing that i would say is

1:27:08Father Moses:there's two different ways to look at it number one is if your heart is on christ you will not give your heart away to somebody who is not worthy of it. Okay. That's it. Can there be a temptation? Of course. You know what I mean? I get guys who come to the church and then they're like, what's going on, Father? This girl I used to know is texting me all the time. What do I do? Like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, it's always like that, right? The minute that they start coming to church, all these temptations pop up. And it's always the same. Block the number. Don't respond. You know, they're like, she wants to meet me for lunch.

1:27:47I don't think this is a good idea. It's like, it's definitely not a good idea. You know, it's definitely not a good idea. She wants to meet you for church. Great. But the thing is, is when your heart and your, and your love is set on Christ, you're very particular about how and where you show love to other people. You can love everyone in a general way, but really giving your heart to somebody who doesn't love Christ. I mean, spiritually, there's an incompatibility there that is not just unwise, but flat out dangerous. That would make sense. I mean, if somebody wants to improve their chances of meeting a good woman, I mean, surely going to church regularly, there's going to be a high chance that you'll find someone who has similar values, believes in the same thing and no doubt you know you'll probably if you choose to go down that route and get married you're gonna have a good marriage and probably have lots of kids as well this is this is the thing mike people think that like you just find somebody who your personality is compatible with or you have the same interests and then that's going to be um you know the right recipe you're like in love with them there's this in there's a kind of intangible feeling that happens.

1:29:07And that's going to lead to a good marriage. And the reality is, is that this is what people are doing all over society. And yet we have greater than 50 % divorce rate. So what really makes the longevity of a relationship to people who are focused on Christ have the same vision of life, the same sense of self-denial, the same sense of martyrdom, of being a Christian, because that is what makes them able to live with each other. each person willing to die to themselves so of course like you need something greater like you you need someone greater than just the two of you when two people quote-unquote fall in love and there's nothing greater to their relationship it's interesting because saint john chrysostom talks about this 1700 years ago he says if a if a relationship is basically just based on

1:29:54Father Moses:looks attraction whatever it basically fizzles out after one year after one year the two people become familiar with each other they see each other's flaws it isn't exciting it isn't new it's boring it's blah blah blah blah blah and then the relationship ship just kind of collapses on its own weight yeah so that's why you know that's why we see all these one to three year relationships because there's nothing greater there's no greater meaning or purpose and the other thing is too is when you look at society so much of society is about finding self-contentment like we said like Marriage is a path of self-contentment.

1:30:32That's not what it is. Marriage is about building a family, which is something much greater than yourself. Marriage is about bearing your cross and living that life of self-denial, which is much greater than yourself. It transcends normal life and existence. If it isn't based on or predicated on those principles, eventually the novelty of the relationship wears off. The novelty of the other person wears off. It becomes boring. And that's what most people experience. The relationship eventually just becomes boring and inconvenience because the two of you are not living for anyone greater than yourselves.

1:31:10Like you're not living for God. Because even having children, I mean, children are on a path to contentment and happiness. I can assure you that. Children are a path to holiness. Having children makes you and transforms you if you're doing it in the right way. That is the purpose of having children It's like What is the purpose of lifting weights The purpose of lifting weights is to what You know help you cardiovascular Help with you know write your blood flow Overall health Keep everything in check Build muscle The strain and the struggle Of the adversity of lifting weights Is what builds muscle Well the strain and the struggle of married life With children is what builds your spiritual muscle if you do it in the right way.

1:32:02If you do it in the wrong way, it's not going to bring forth any good fruit. Like if you go to the gym and put too much weight on the bar and it just crushes you and you get injured, well, that's not ideal, you know? But the way that marriage is and the way that having children is, is that it is transformative. Like I can't imagine having six kids when I had one or two. I would have lost my mind. I wouldn't have been able to, I wouldn't have been able to bear the pressure, the struggle, the difficulties of it, the challenges, all the personalities, all the things that are going on. And Lord have mercy, even the cost of feeding all these kids.

1:32:40You incrementally are progressing, accommodating resistance that is incrementally making you stronger. That's happening. Nobody lives having their first year, right? Yeah. Just like when you have one kid, you think, wow, this is the, you know, people are like, when they have their first kid, they're like, father, I don't know how you do six kids. I'm like, I don't know how I do it either. It's God's grace. I couldn't do it on my own. Trust me. I couldn't handle it. It's God's help. That's a miracle. But that first year of having a baby, when you really realize the world does not revolve around me, I am not the most important person.

1:33:21There is this little precious baby that is so cute that is absolutely, I don't want to say destroying my life, but reorienting my life to where my life is not about me, it's about them. They have nothing but cuteness to offer, but they're mine. They're my child. They're my progeny. They're an extension. They're an extension of my life in some way. And my life becomes all about them.

1:33:54Father Moses:That is the reorienting of the heart.

1:34:00what what would you do if you if one of your kids decided not to be religious

1:34:09Father Moses:i mean the same thing i do for them now i pray for them every day yeah i would what would i change i would love them and i would pray for them yeah because i always ask a lot of my guests you know in today's world where there's so many bad things happening so many distractions and especially with social media being so prominent which wasn't around you know when we were growing up and you know even for some of the people i speak to they've become very successful they've made a load of money i think more so when it comes to raising boys how are they ensuring that they're going to raise their boys properly to not only be good people, but also be ambitious, disciplined, hardworking, and, you know, kind of resist the temptation.

1:35:00But I guess in your case, if you're bringing them up in such a, you know, a wholesome environment, religious environment, that in itself should be enough for them to you know hit off all the the potentially devilish things that come their way why is it mike why is it so many people who have wealth their children end up so dysfunctional if you know a lot of wealthy people like wealthy people not not not i mean forgive me there's a lot of social media people who present themselves as wealthy because they can buy a Ferrari, but they're living in debt. I mean, there are people who are genuinely entrepreneurs.

1:35:47They do well. They've made good money. They could buy a Ferrari. They'll never buy a Ferrari. You know what I mean? Why is it the children so often end up dysfunctional? The reason is because the children are not attracted to what the parents have. They don't feel fulfilled in life. So what's the best thing that I can offer to my children? The best thing that I can offer to my children is to live my life for Christ. They see me every day in a way that nobody else sees me. They see all my highs and my lows. They see my, you know, when I get frustrated or when I get irritated or when I'm overburdened or when I'm tired or cranky, you know, they see my marriage with my wife.

1:36:23They see the way that I treat their mother. They see all of these things. What can I do except model for them? This is the best that I have to offer you. This life is the life that I'm living And if you want to be If you want to live it This is what it looks like That's the only thing that I can do They have free will They have free will And they're going to have They do have temptations now I mean they may not be like Crazy temptations Like what I grew up with But they still have temptations To get frustrated To get angry To complain To fight with their brother To do whatever You know like They're still human beings They're not little cherubic saints running around my house floating on clouds, right?

1:37:04I mean, they're boys. I have five boys, right? They're boys. Like, they brawl. They get angry with each other. They struggle with their disposition. But they're also kids. They're maturing into adulthood. So what can I do? All I can do is live my life of faith. That's all I can do. And pray for them. And the thing is, you can't just convince people It has to be something that's attractive I grew up in a Christian family And people said, oh, you rebelled I'm like, there was nothing to rebel against My family was so dysfunctional I wasn't running from what my family had Because my family had something so good I was running from the insanity that I lived in every day Even though they were religious if my kids don't see in me and in my wife the love that we have for each other the peace that we are striving for the stability of our life the way that we serve and help other people if they don't fully grasp this that's all I can do is try to model that for them

1:38:16Father Moses:but if I'm not if I don't love it if I don't love Christ what can they what can they emulate i have to live it if i don't live it then you know but there's no you know there's no kind of quote unquote in a sense 100 guarantee because everybody has free will and the devil is still trying to get their souls they have to engage in the battle in the fight for their souls right my two oldest are 12 and 14 Like they're just starting to get into being young adults and young men. They're going to face temptations. They're going to face things. They are. That's the way the devil works. He doesn't, he doesn't sleep on, on my family because my family is the family of a priest.

1:39:11In fact, the saints say that the devil wars more against the family of a priest than a

1:39:16Father Moses:normal family. Hmm.

1:39:22yeah i guess you just got to hope that they if they do have anything that they're concerned with or they need guidance or they have something they want to share they'll come to you and discuss it with you and you can yeah i'm yeah i'm very i'm i'm very grateful that

1:39:47Father Moses:we have very open dialogue. Yeah. You know, they know that I don't expect them to be perfect. I don't, I, and I don't hang, you know, my dad was very critical of me growing up. There was nothing I could ever do right. And that criticism and constant negative feedback was awful. and they know that I encourage them to a higher standard, to live the Christian life, to embrace being a Christian. They know that I encourage them with that, but I'm under no delusion that they're going to be perfect. And I don't rail on them or criticize them or tell them you're the son of a priest, behave like it, or like whatever.

1:40:35They're kids. They need to be able to be kids. They need to be able to be human. They can't, you know, I'm not perfect. I'm a very, very far from perfect person. I cannot expect them to be perfect.

1:40:50Father Mothers, I appreciate your time and everything you shared with me and my audience today. If there's one thing that you would like the listeners to take away from this conversation, what would it be? go to the orthodox church turn to christ you'll never regret it it's the greatest decision you'll make in your life simple pray christ will heal you thank you where can people find you on socials uh we're on instagram at father moses mcpherson and then we're on youtube at father moses mcpherson which is the main channel. And then there's a second channel called Father Moses Sermons, which are the recordings of the sermons we give on Sundays.

1:41:35And then we're at school.com slash Father Moses for courses and extra material and weekly Q &A that we do there live. And we do a live Q &A on YouTube. Try to do every single Friday, 3 to 5 p.m. Central Time. Amazing. And of course, you can go by the church. well i think next time next time i'm in austin um i think i need to get lifting with you of course and you gotta come to our garage man it's nice and warm it's nice and warm it's good time no oh yeah there's no ac it's a it's like you know anywhere from eight to ten guys who are lifting it's a good environment we get after it you know what i mean it's a good It's a solid, it's a solid, it's an environment that I'm proud of in the healthy sense of the word.

1:42:28Yeah. Everybody's hard charging. Guys are making real progress. You know, it's a good time, man. Love to have you. Awesome. Thank you very much. All right, brother. God bless you.

1:42:51Thank you.