Beware of the Boglin

0:00Hello everybody, welcome to the Football Ramble. Great win for Leeds and Villa are on the march. It's Thursday 4th December. I'm Marcus Spell. I'm Jim Campbell. And I'm Jim Campbell. And I'm Pete Donaldson.

0:24Welcome one and all to a thrilling Thursday here at the Football Ramble. We've had another dose of the Premier League, Pete Donaldson, and it entertained us. It tickled my fancy repeatedly from start to finish, Marcus. It's a lovely midweek hit, wasn't it? It was, yeah. Would have been lovely if Fulham had found an equaliser. No, I'm not over it yet. I'm not over yesterday's show, to be honest. There was a lot of very aggressive taste and decency edits I noticed from some of the things I said. I cannot help but think that the producers were concerned that I was too hungover. But, jokes on them, I'm even more hungover today.

1:01So hold on to your butts. Yeah. Maybe we'll hear some more about those Sky Racists. Sky Racists! Jim put it in. A little clue of what you were... Jim said it. Jim said it. Not me Jim said it What are you doing Right I'm trying to Juice what we've got In front of us Marcus Exactly I'm on board Get it out Just get on board yourself Get it out It's better for all of us Shocked I never listened to the show I was absolutely Beside myself I was like Do they do this every time Unbelievable Right You've Jim You've both laid the gauntlet down And I'm going to have to Pick it up again Alright then Here we go You signed up to this not not this signed up to most of it anyway okay let's start with leeds united three chelsea won what a win for the team in white great performance by uh those leads leads leads a much needed win of course after their um their i say struggles i mean it's struggling to pick up a few points people myself included thought i do fancy them still to go down but daniel farger has shoved one in the eye of me and one in the eye of Chelsea Football Club because they were flying high off the back of a very impressive victory against Barcelona, Jim.

2:17They drew against Arsenal, being down to 10 men, of course, for most of the game, went toe-to-toe with the soon-to-be Premier League champions. But they went to Ellen Road and my goodness, they got biffed. They got biffed all over the gaff. They did get biffed by lovely Daniel Farker as well. And I think you're right to mention the week Chelsea have had. I think it looked like there was evidence of some tired legs out there because not only have they had two very intense games, they played over half with 10 men there. So I think that is certainly a factor. But so I was at the Emirates last night to watch Arsenal beat Brentford.

2:54You know, you see the score and you think, oh, that's brilliant that they've raced into that lead. But it's, you know, they've scored after six minutes. Plenty of time for Chelsea to get back into this. They probably will. You see they go two new up. you go okay but then pedro netto scores you think all right chelsea chelsea will probably turn the screw a bit here but then i got home and saw how the game was unfolding and i was surprised by how comfortable leads were um because you know as you've mentioned they've had some difficult results recently and it was starting to look like leads might get cut adrift with burnley and wolves and you know i think we're all kind of invested in the success of the promoted teams in a quite outsized way at the moment because of the way the past few seasons have gone so i think lees have a lot of kind of goodwill from the neutrals and i'd certainly include myself amongst that i was just so impressed with how calm and comfortable they were they were really really good for it as well i mean obviously tossing out of aderabaya makes a big mistake that gifts them that goal but it also it comes from their pressure yeah and you know the the structure that farke has them playing under at the moment this uh kind of uh three five two uh situation with with the wingbacks is is working really, really well for them.

4:02Well, it is working. It obviously changed it against Man City and they were gutted not to get a result. I mean, when you said they've had some tricky results, I think that they have, you know, the Man City one is an obvious one. So go on about that too much. But I suspect there have been some Leeds fans saying, well, hang on, you know, we've got it in us to stay up this season. And Wolves are, I mean, they obviously lost again last night. Two points, you know, it's a very poor tally. So that's that. With Burnley, I think they've done all right, but with, you would say, a more limited squad and a manager who has not really done that well previously in the Premier League, you worry about them.

4:38Same could be said for Farker. But I think Leeds are the one, aren't they, of those three teams that have been down there in recent weeks. They're the ones who people are thinking, OK, well, what have you got? And Peter, with this victory and Dominic Calvert-Lewin suddenly playing like a man possessed. Come on. I mean, he was present and he was there to touch the ball. He was the Sky Sports man of the match, Peter. All right, fine. I was more thinking of him getting the final touch on his goal. But was he actually the man of the match? It's very interesting. I just think that him playing two men up top just seemed to help Leeds out massively.

5:17And he's become less kind of dogmatic about how he approaches games at Farka. The wingbacks, like Jim said, they look really up for it. And they look like they're willing to show something in the Premier League. you know hoping against hope that they're going to you know retain their Premier League status but is it too late for Farka I mean obviously there was a lot of talk going into this match that Farka's Leeds United did beat Maresca's Leicester City twice in like a couple of seasons ago so like there might be something to be said for he's just got Maresca's number and Maresca just overthinks things but I do think I wish he'd put these sort of performances together and like you say the performance against Manchester to City together a little bit earlier in the season because it just seems like a little bit too lit and they may be looking for somebody else, a little bit of fresh blood and the long forgotten new manager bounce to get them out of it.

6:09They've just got out of the relegation zone and you're saying it's too late. Yeah, but I think Pete's onto something. I think Fark in particular does feel like a manager where a short, bad run starts to bring the doubts in. And obviously we're speculating. We don't know how the higher ups at Leeds think. but speculation does seem to stick to him very quickly, doesn't it? So he needs to build on this really, of course. And he's created a good platform for them to do it and I really hope he can do it as well. But I absolutely know what Pete's saying. Well, I think, yeah, we'll get to the performance in just a sec, but to tap into what you're saying, Forest above them, Forest, Fulham, Bournemouth, Brentford, Newcastle, Spurs, Everton, you're into the top 10.

6:52The team's above, it's difficult. However... Liverpool weekend. So there you go. There's a chance for some more points. I mean, West Ham and the team below, it really is, at the moment, you're trying to scrutinise it. And as Luke said on, was it the mailbag this week or certainly maybe on Monday? Maybe just a text. That we are scrutinising the bottom three more than ever because of what's happened in recent seasons. But look, I want to focus more on the performance against Chelsea because they were excellent. And that 3-5-2 formation seems to have clicked, for want of a better word perhaps. And it's those little things when a manager changes something up and it starts to the performances are there and then you get a big result like this that can hush the doubters for a little bit of time.

7:45But they were excellent all over the pitch. I mean, the intensity that Chelsea had against Arsenal and Barcelona. Leeds seem to have stole it from them. And as I say, just splurged it everywhere all across Ellen Road. Because from start to finish, they were at it. Early goal, great header. And they looked dangerous. Oh, they leap on him. Unreal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was cracking into that. It was. There's something about... I think with Leeds, because of where the away fans are, you can't see them behind either goal. so when a goal goes in at Ellen Road it's particularly raucous do you know what I mean because some grounds behind usually the away fans are in the corner you see if a goal goes in there's only half of it celebrate or only a section or something like that Ellen Road was pumping and when it's like that they won't be denied Tanaka's goal though come on come on what a proper like sniper shot that I love that type of finish from there where it's just so precisely placed.

8:51Absolutely brilliant. A really good move from Leeds as well. Again, that came from their intensity. Yeah, it did, yeah. That was the thing that surprised me about DCL getting the man in the match, how good Ethan Ampadu was. Yes, everywhere. It was almost like him coming through at Chelsea kind of quality. You're like, oh, this guy's going to be really special. I realise he's like, how old is he now, 25? I do like him and I do wish he could maintain a Premier League buff because I think he's a really, really good footballer. I'd like him to grow out his dreads as well. That would be really cool.

9:20Yeah, I mean, kind of former players coming back to haunt you is a thing that every football fan has experienced. But when you have such a high turnover as Chelsea, that's kind of happening in every game, isn't it? Well, you've known them to us for crying out loud. It's inevitable, though, isn't it? If you stockpile that many players. But yeah, all across the pitch, they were superb. You're right to highlight Ampadu. and at the back as well you know just solid I mean they did not give Chelsea much the goal that Neto scored was a bit of a funny one sort of bundled it in but as you say Jim they didn't panic they didn't think oh blimey we're playing against the good side Cole Palmer came on I know he had a chance he might have done a little bit better they definitely should have done a little bit better but that just shows a player who's just not played for a while yeah but Leeds could have really gone okay right everybody behind the ball and tried to kind of see it out well not see it out Well, they looked as likely to get a fourth as Chelsea did to get a second, didn't they?

10:17Yes. Was it just all about Pedro Neto doing his fingers in the ear celebration for his goal when they were losing? What was that about? Leeds must have been like, well, I think they've gone a bit mad. I think they think they've scored more goals. They've taken their foot off the gas. Yeah, because he popped his fingers in his ears really briefly and almost apologetically, didn't he? It's like, just don't do it then. Yeah. I mean, he may well have been getting some treatment from those fans. I don't know. I don't know. I'm sure he was in. Maybe there's previous there I'm unaware of. Who knows? I wasn't at the match.

10:48But yes, Dominic Calvert-Lewin settled the game. I mean, it was a gift to him. But, you know, a striker's still got to be there. Scored in back-to-back games. He's one goal away from beating his tally from last season, which was three in 26 Premier League appearances. Yeah. Not tied. Peter. He doesn't really assist either, does he? That's the problem. Hey, he won a penalty at Man City. He did win a penalty, yeah. next summer. What are you saying? I'm saying we've got enough players in that position, Marcus. Well, if Callum Wilson's going for it, why can't Dominic Cavaloo and Dream? Callum Wilson might be going for it in the same way that I'm going for it.

11:23If I can get in, are they? Oh, you little naughty sausage. Good to see Cole Palmer back on the field, though. Jim? Yeah. It's been a while since we've seen him, isn't it? I think you're right. He might have done a little bit better with that chance, but there's a bit of rustiness there. He's going to be like a massive asset for them. and it's perhaps gone perhaps under the radar a little bit how much any team would miss a player that effective and that kind of instrumental to the attacking output of the team. So yeah, I think that they're in a funny situation at the moment, Chelsea, aren't they, in terms of consistency because prior to the Arsenal game people are saying that they look like a real title contender, they put a performance in like that and they absolutely look like a title contender and then they lose this game and a lot of that comes from the schedule, I think, and that's something you always have to factor in but it is of course something that teams have to deal with as well.

12:13So he is coming back at the perfect time really. You should be fresh. There's a lot of games coming up. There's a chance for him to kind of really get a run going and influence them. And yeah, that is really the challenge for them, isn't it? With the projects that Chelsea are building is to find that consistency. And it really feels like the next and possibly the last step in them being kind of back to the Chelsea that we've seen in some of their kind of more successful periods. Obviously, they've won two trophies last year, so they're in a successful period. But in terms of consistently challenging for the league, it is all about that now.

12:46So when the fans sing, we've got our Chelsea back, you'd nod and go, yeah, I don't think you have, lads. Well, I mean, have they though, Marcus? Because he keeps rotating so much. Who knows what's the original? Chelsea were one of the first teams to rotate, if you remember back in the 90s. Was it Vialli or something? They were the one of the... Like a microwave hot plate. If you like. They were like, what are those? A rustler, the burgers, the microwave and the burgers. You are a fan of those rustlers. I know you were, yeah. I've never had one. You've never had one? Yeah. Because you're a man who likes those little chicken bites you like.

13:21Frigerator. You're a frigerator man. You never had a rustler. When you say I'm a frigerator man, I just want to tell the listeners that I've had frigerators a couple of times over the years. You also do raid fridges. Yeah, you do. That is your rep. That is true. But I don't rustle them. No. It's a good point, actually. All right, I'll come round yours for a microwavable burger at some point, Peter. How about that, eh? Can you think of anything more marvellous than that, Jim? But anyway, Chelsea, yes. They introduced the idea to the Premier League of squad rotation. So if they're doing that now, then they have got their Chelsea back.

13:54I suppose so. Oh, see? Well, anyway, Chelsea, they're now fourth, nine points behind Arsenal, who are top. And this is the funny thing this season. In fact, every season now in the Premier League. if Arsenal weren't so obviously the favourites for the title this season, you'd think, you know, they're doing okay. Like if Arsenal even, you know, just three or four points worse off this season, you think, well, maybe Chelsea, I mean, Villa, Man City are in there. To me, it's like just so painfully obvious that Arsenal are going to win the league this year. I know you're not going to agree with me, Jim, because you think that if you do, it might have some sort of effect on the future.

14:31Yeah, and it will. I wish I could refute that, Marcus. I'm not a superstitious man in any regard other than this one. But yeah, you're absolutely right. Even though I know that's nonsense, you are absolutely right. Yeah. But Chelsea, I think when you said that a lot of people were talented for the title, I think a few people were maybe suggesting were they in it. And I wonder if Chelsea themselves believed and were talking like that because it's a hell of a mindset to get yourself into. I can only imagine. But from what people have said when they are going for a league title, to enter every game with a steely determination and a dead-eyed kind of, it's a victory today.

15:14We'll do it expressing ourselves or we'll do it bundling one in or defending for our lives. Today is a victory, lads. No ifs, no buts. You've got to get yourself into that. Now, obviously, that kind of plays down some of the more flair sides and expressive sides like Guardiola's Man City when they're in the peak and so on. But that determination, that idea of it's three points today, no ifs, no buts, that's what they've got to do. Whereas I think with Chelsea, to get themselves in that mindset at the moment with, you know, it's okay, youthful squad or whatever you want to call it. I think maybe that's just slightly too early.

15:52I think it's the kind of thing with Chelsea that if they found themselves in a couple of months, they were there with Arsenal, then they would start to get into that mindset. And I know people might say, well, that's a bit silly. But basically what I'm saying is if they go away and lose 3-1 to Leeds, that dressing room wouldn't feel the same as if it was Arsenal who had just lost 3-1 to Leeds and Leeds had done that to them. Yeah. If you see what I mean. So I think they'll be there with the Cups and I think they can do it as they showed in the Club World Cup and obviously to a lesser extent the Europa Conference League, which was theirs for the taking all day long last season.

16:28But I think, you know, in the Champions League, I think they will go deep. I think you will see more of those kind of performances like they're putting against Barcelona at home. Whereas when it comes to the week in, week out, grind and thrust and just energy sapping, title chasing kind of campaign that you need to get yourself into a position for the title, I don't think that's in them. I don't think it's in anybody really other than Arsenal. Man City maybe, but after what you saw at the Cottage and, you know, again, I've gone on about that. Through experience, if nothing else, I would say. Chelsea are also a very young team that has to be factored into it.

17:08So, you know, this is a long-term project, isn't it? You can't even win anything with Kedjic. Wow. But that's also kind of like why you'd think that Mareska should really be kind of trying to foster relationships in the side. You know what I mean? to try and keep a little bit of stability from week to week because it's kind of like rotating. It's just, no one kind of, like, how many did he take out of the back four from the last time they played too? Well, I suppose he would say he's trying to keep everybody happy though. Do you think they need to go bowling and laser quest? I just think they need to just have a little bit of time in the side with each other.

17:41I'm all for competitiveness, but I just do think there's needless disruption, especially with teams like quite an intense sort of side like Leeds who are fighting for their lives. Especially if those players have paid their subs as well. Exactly. You've got to give them time. You can't just have them running the line. Via Nova's over 50s every weekend. Jamie Gittins is running the line again. This is ridiculous. He costs a lot of money. Oh, dear. Is he filming? Is he filming with the phone? I don't know. Goodness knows. There's one interesting thing I noticed in the game, which was that Gabriel Goodmanson had a very good game for Leeds and he had mud all over the front of his shirt except on the Red Bull logo.

18:23Oh, I see. How have they done that? Some kind of hydrophobic coating of the Red Bull logo to make sure everyone can see the wings creating energy drink. I don't know. Red Bull just remains an absolutely baffling, baffling product. Just really weird energy drink that for some reason has a sporting empire. Yeah, true. Space. It's not the weirdest thing that's got a sporting empire though, is it, Jim? No, I suppose not. We'll leave that there. All right, coming up after this, Barnes were burned in Brighton.

19:17Well, back to the football ramble, everybody. Bright 3, Aston Villa 4, Unai Emery said, in the build-up to this game, he went, wow, what a match. He wasn't wrong, Peter. No, he wasn't wrong. Goals bloody galore. No, and it's kind of... What an entertaining game. And what the best thing about it was, and what was such a credit to the Premier League, was just that Emery was not settling for the draw. And it just shows a team who were out the other side of that kind of period of low confidence. And it was just like, we're going for this and we're going to get it and we're going to have it. Thank you.

19:49I loved it when Oli Watkins scored the equaliser to make it 2-2 which was a lovely finish and really good to see him and his confidence up. Emery took his jacket off and chucked it on the floor like he was bloody Steve Tyler after the third song. You know, it was amazing. He nearly hit a Villa player as well as he ran past. It's class. Yeah. Yuri Tillelmans can't come on because he's taken a zip to the eye. It was brilliant. I mean, the game, you know, flipping Van Hecker scored after nine minutes. Chaotic, that first. I mean, they probably should have done a little bit better there. And their second was a lovely move, but it was a huge deflection.

20:31So it's kind of a little bit, the 2-0 lead for Brighton was a little bit artificial, I kind of felt. Well, they caught Villa cold. And bear in mind, that's Brighton's first Premier League defeat at home this season. So when they go 2-0 up, you think to yourself, I'll tell you what, Villa, you're struggling a bit because the goalkeeper only came in after Emi Martinez picked up an injury in the warm-up. It was a back spasm, wasn't it? Which leads me to think he might have been demonstrating his trophy hump to someone and just sort of put something out. Put it out, yeah. This happens when you get like north of 30.

21:03Any little thing can do that. Do you think he maybe got down on all fours behind one of the right players and said, push him over me? And it just went wrong. He was like, boom, it could have been something like that. I think he's the pusher though in that scenario. I think he's happy to just contribute. No, I think he's the one who goes down on all fours behind a person because you've got to initiate it. Yeah, I completely agree. But anyway, yeah, so Bizok comes in and, as you say, doesn't start the game well. No, but ends it incredibly well. That one-handed save was, you know, a three-pointer, wasn't it?

21:35Yeah. Do you know what the Welbeck chance you're referencing? The crossing, I think Welbeck did incredibly well to arch his head to get that effort in on goal. So had he scored, it would have been a beauty, but it ends up being a fabulous save. So, yeah, you're absolutely right. Why is he not in the England conversation, Marcus? Are you throwing DCL in there? Of course he is. We've been talking about well back for England. And now we're talking about Ollie Watkins again, because Watkins, back among the goals, scored his first Premier League goal since September. And he said, it's been a tricky period in my career.

22:08I've not had this since the manager came in, but I kept working hard and you get your rewards. Emery said he needs those goals. He needs to be calm. He needs to keep going and get balance. And he got it. So it all came up, Oli Watkins. The first one was, one might say, sort of classic striker stuff. But that second goal he scored, Jim, with the laces, come on. Under pressure with defenders as well. I think that is the sort of goal that comes when you've battled for your first goal in a while. You've got that kind of scrappy one and then you can see the wind is in his sails a bit. It's an absolutely brilliant ball over the top from Morgan Rodgers as well.

22:44who's had a bit of a funny start to the season, but he's starting to show flashes of the brilliance that we know he has a lot more regularly. And yeah, I do think the confidence in that maybe comes from that first goal, as you say, because Watkins is a funny one in that scenario, isn't he? Because sometimes he misses chances like that and then he'll bury something from a really tight angle that seems a lot harder. And I think you can probably see his focus in that second goal, which is where they need him to be. And I'm really pleased for him, actually, because a lot of people were starting to wonder if, you know, this was kind of him beginning to tail off, particularly in a World Cup year.

23:20You know, he seems like he wasn't putting up a huge amount of fight for that shirt. But I think there's probably more left in the tank from Watkins for sure. And we saw a lot of that last night. And it's not just Watkins, is it? I was also very impressed with Donyell Mallon and the consistency that he's started to show. He had a slow start when he joined them in January. And he's really, really kind of contributing now. He is. You're right. Marlon is chipping in and he gets what is ultimately the winning goal. So right to mention him. I think Inanna played really well too. Yeah. And I was pleased for him to score.

23:53And when he scores and the sort of turnaround is complete, if you like, the way he celebrated Emery, the away end, it was just like, yeah, yeah, this is ours now. And there was an inevitability about it, despite Brighton still very much being in the game. Yeah. And I think actually, because Brighton's first goal came from a corner that should have been a goal kick, Villa were rightly angry about that. And I think they really channeled that anger really well and they used it. And I think they're up in third now. And what's taken them there is resilience and belief. They have really sort of kind of banished that early season form and just said, no, this isn't who we are.

24:32This isn't how this season is going to go. And they look as good as they've been under Emery, really. yeah and especially you know we spoke about them the other day didn't we about the amount of shots they're taking from distance and and how their general xg has been very low and then you know they get four goals in a really tricky tie against a really tricky team two teams that we probably should have mentioned more this season and there's always a couple of teams teams that go that way but this was this is a tough tough assignment especially the form that prighton have been in and villa you know really really impressive yeah it's a very satisfying win for villa definitely They're now on a run of six straight wins and, as you say, sit third in the league.

25:08And with the league table as it is, you think, well, there's a real chance for teams to either cement their place or cement their place but get back into the Champions League, whether that's having been out of it or qualify again. I mean, I know people are thinking, come on, what are you talking about Champions League spots so early on in the season? But for Villa, I think... Well, they've done it before, haven't they? They have done it before. And they can channel that experience. Yeah, because when they qualified for the Champions League for the first time, it was a monumental effort. You remember those players.

25:42I think they, were they at like the Villa sort of end of season dinner or something? They were all together, weren't they? And when they did it, they all celebrated, rightly so. Then the following season, having put a great shift in in that Champions League campaign, the following season, obviously they're not in it now. They're in the Europa League, which is another avenue, of course, a realistic one, certainly with them are in charge. This season, you know, with Liverpool way off the pace, Spurs don't look like they're going to bother the top four or top five. Manchester United is still Manchester United.

26:11You know, there is a real chance. And even this is perhaps being a little bit too much, but even a side like Brighton, there's usually one or two sides. Bournemouth did it for about half a season or whatever last year. And you think, you never know. You never bloody know. Everything's up for grabs this season for a few games of consistency. I just think teams just need to sort of go back to basics and sort of go, right, what are we good at? Like, even just use Matty Cash on Villa's side of things, use Matty Cash's excellent corners for something. Do you know what I mean? You're just sort of like, what have we got in the box?

26:43What are we good at? Let's focus on that and let's make it a little bit more simple. And just, you know, get a draw away from home rather than a loss. And any sort of consistency where you're not losing games and you're not losing massive amounts of points, you can get up there because everyone's kind of falling away. Yeah, I do think you could probably go back to 2007 and find a podcast in and around November, December, every single year that we've been doing the Football Ramble and hear us having a conversation like this about certain things, possibly kind of being able to push into the top four.

27:17It feels possible from here, even having said that, it often does, doesn't it? But I don't think you can put Villa in that bracket really, precisely because they've done it already. Precisely because they've got Emery. I think they've got a more than realistic chance of kind of sustaining this because it does look like some of the kind of big hitters are going to kind of struggle to find form until potentially it's too late. So again, for them, kind of as you're alluding to there, Pete, like consistency is key, isn't it? Now, that victory was Aston Villa's 62nd in the Premier League under Unai Emery, which is the most any manager across the club's history in the competition has achieved.

27:53He's overtaken John Gregory and Martin O 'Neill, both who had 61. Now, I know that's a Premier League stat and football existed way before the Premier League. But still, I think that's noteworthy. It shows you the work Emery's been doing there since he's arrived and very impressively has turned it around. So they're very much on the march, one would have to say. Coming up after this, it's another impressive display from Sunderland.

28:28Welcome back, everybody. Liverpool won, Sunderland won. Oh, nearly a famous night for Sunderland. It's a good point. They were happy with the point. You saw the away end, you saw the players. David Cartlidge even said on our very WhatsApp group, he was happy with a point. Could have been more. Perhaps we'll get to that in a minute. Can we just take a moment to appreciate that we're in December, Sunderland fans are saying that ultimately they are happy with the point that I'm feeling. What on earth? Yeah, it's a fair comment, Jim. It really is. Liverpool were really poor again. Yeah. They really were.

29:12I think that we've seen enough of them now to, you know, see that this is a real problem rather than a kind of, you know, short blip. I think the problem is we know how many talented players they've got in their squad. And we talk about it a lot. And, you know, I've been saying a lot. I think it's just a matter of time before they click. And that may not even be this season at this point, or certainly not at any point where it's going to salvage it for them. But they are all playing in such an average manner at the moment. So many of them are just way, way below par. And it is... Well, yeah, I was going to say it's not average, Jim.

29:49As you've corrected yourself, it is below par. Like the intensity is not there. The winning the jewels, everything. You can sometimes... Overhitting passes and making poor decisions. I mean, they're just so flimsy. I mean, it's really, really odd and baffling. And at times, I would maybe even use the word eerie when you see a side with this amount of quality who won the Premier League in such fine fashion last season. It's very, very strange. and, you know, it always seems like you kind of are very hesitant to say it again. Like, are we underplaying the death of Diogo Jota here? You know, like it's, do you know what I mean?

30:40It's such a... I think it is a major, major factor. Yeah, perhaps more than we... We sort of risk repeating ourselves here. But I think a lot of this looks like it's a psychological thing. And grief affects people in really unpredictable ways. And being in a spotlight like this as well, where you're criticized for everything that isn't a success, is, I would imagine, the last thing that players need. Totally. It's a horrible, horrible thing to have to deal with in the public eye. Yeah. At the end of the day, we're a football podcast. We kind of have to talk about the things that are happening.

31:17Sure, sure, sure, of course. It's the perfect storm for Liverpool at home with an incredible squad where you're expected to get something, suddenly come here and really do frustrate. And I just get the sense that there was a lot of focus on Izak's two passes last night. And you've got to remember that this side was always set up to score goals from quite wide at the top of the side. And so they don't really know how to feed a striker and they've not needed to for such a long time. what they need is like a classroom hamster to look after and just share it around so they know how to look after someone like that.

31:53And maybe they'll actually get the ball to Izak in some quite devastating areas. But right now, they're just finding it very hard to break down pretty well-drilled defences in a way that they were able to do so, like last season, for example. But I mean, I kind of disagree with an awful lot of that. The reason, laboring the point, going back to it, the reason why I made the point earlier on is There's a psychological thing, and this isn't a case of, ah, the tactics or the formation or we're trying to get used to it. It's the intensity. It's the complete, like, which is very stark. I mean, Jamie Carragher said they sleepwalked through this match.

32:29So it's very, very strange. Alexander Rizak signing, like, you would think at some point he will come good. And you would think at some point, whether it's under this manager or another one, whether it's this season or next season at some point this Liverpool side will begin to play football and start to challenge and start to win games again but right now He played exactly like he did at Newcastle He's not a hard-working footballer He is a forward who scores goals but you need to get him the ball in the box That needs to be the way it is Would the best thing Liverpool could do in the January transfer window would be to get rid of Salah and get Jacob Murphy Get Jacob Murphy He just knows how to feed Well, honestly, I think a really bit of bad luck for Liverpool prior to this season was that Luis Diaz wanted to leave.

33:21So I don't think they'd have sold him had he not essentially said that he wanted to move on. And obviously, he's had a brilliant time at Bayern Munich. There are still moments where you think he should score and he doesn't. But he's also working so, so hard out there. I think he's got a couple of assists where he's kind of been on the floor and has managed to get his foot in there and tee up a teammate. And I know like Bayern Munich dominate pretty much every game they play. But Diaz is exactly the player that, you know, both Eketike and Izak would thrive beside. And they don't really have anyone, especially with a drop-off of Salah.

34:00But where would Verts go? With that quality. Yeah, I mean, well, where would Verts go is the bloody name of some sort of one-man show at the Edinburgh Festival about the whole situation this year, isn't it? Like, that is the problem. I mean, obviously, he kind of, I know the shot wasn't going in, but it doesn't happen without him. It's not his goal. But the goal doesn't happen without him, right? So that is at least a contribution there. That is a bright spot here, even if he doesn't technically get the goal. You're right. For a footballer who cost over 100 million quid, at least he, you know, if it wasn't for him, that goal would have got it.

34:31I'm joking. We know Verts is a good one. top player and he's going to come good. But I did feel a bit gutted for him because, as you say, the way he sort of showed a bit of calm and composure and the verts that we know he can be, you kind of go, oh, it's an own goal, mate, unlucky, pal. The thing that we've sort of touched upon early in the season, like we kind of forget that even pre-Jotter's sad death, they weren't playing well. That's a fair point. They ended last season quite poorly. So this may just be that they just were so good at the start of last season or the first, say, four months of last season, is that they just, and nobody challenged them last season.

35:09So like this is probably where they should be under slot. He's not a miracle worker. No, it was in March, wasn't it, when they were beaten by PSG? I think early March, if I remember correctly. And yeah, OK, they won some games, still put in a few performances. But you're right, it wasn't like it was before. I suppose that cleared the schedule for them as well, didn't it? Going out of the Champions League early like that. Well, because the week after they played the League Cup final or whenever it was very soon after, they were just non-existent really. I mean, Newcastle were absolutely brilliant.

35:40So yes, that's a fair point. It's this weird thing. Like I say, I was scrambling around the other week on the pod trying to think of other examples. I thought of Jose Mourinho's Chelsea, the second time he was there when they win the league and they were scraping over the line to win it. I say when they were scraping over, you could see that they were quite tired, but they were getting the results and they were just, let's get over the line. They do so. And then however many months it was into the second season, it just wasn't happening and Mourinho goes. It could well be a very, very odd case of that.

36:14Yeah. That's going on. And of course, a number of factors go into that, but ultimately you come back to that word again, inertia. I mean, it seems ridiculous to say it, but happened with Leicester City under Ranieri. I know that was such a unique situation. But look, we should talk about Sunderland as well and what they can do on a football pitch because this side, it just never ceases to impress us, really. Alderete and Ballard at the back. I mean, again, anyone can be forgiven for not getting through there because when they're playing like that, my goodness, they know how to defend. Yeah, and they look like a really experienced, sort of canny Premier League operator, don't they?

36:57Yeah. There's a freshness about them, which I just really, really enjoy. And, you know, as we sort of touched on at the start, you're looking at this and thinking, if maybe Isidore backs himself to beat Alisson without rounding the keeper there and doesn't give Kies a ton to get back and make that incredible block, then you're looking at them kind of running out of Anfield with all three points. But even with an attending defender, he could have smashed that harder and higher, I think. I mean, it's a golden opportunity. The real signal for me is the fact that the goalkeeper doesn't get an assist for that.

37:31What a pass. A ball, yeah, it was incredible. It's such a quality, just the swerve on it. It's absolutely pinpoint. If you gave David Beckham a sniper rifle, I'm not sure he could have done that. You know what I mean? It was sudden, sensational. One of the joys of the kind of, you know, the long balls coming back into fashion in the Premier League when the Premier League is now full of really sort of good kind of technically accomplished footballers. Morgan Rodgers, the sister for Ollie Watkins, was an example of it as well. Like the long balls are not always just, you know, hit really high. Some of them are absolutely on a sixpence and that was a perfect example of it.

38:06But yeah, I mean, like Sunderland, you know, I said this after the game against Arsenal, they just won it against everyone. Just like, just bring it on. They want the fight, you know, they want to be tested against the kind of best opposition. And really, what they've done in most of those occasions is they've kind of outworked them and outfought them. In the next 30 days they're playing Man City twice and it's the Etihad this weekend. Who would discount a win? They've got obviously the Derby they're obviously going to be up for that. Obviously Afghans starts to come in to kick it in the game.

38:38That's massive. But I mean their December is like Man City, Newcastle, Brighton, Leeds, Man City, Spurs. In this kind of form with this kind of defensive organisation you'd be like and they're going to win every one of those. Yeah. I was surprised to see Brian Broby only actually made his Premier League debut last night. Really? Yeah, he's come off the bench a couple of times as he makes his first start. His first start, yeah. I was about to say, Jim, you break yourself quickly there. You've forgotten a goal there, haven't you, Jim? But yeah, I mean, that shows you that they've actually got a decent amount of depth there as well.

39:14Takes a special team to beat them. And that's, that team name is Fulham let's remember the good times well Mo Salah was on the bench for a second successive game it's not him it's not entirely him it isn't you know we did stress that to suggest a workman Cluedo isn't it who did this to suggest a workman a very laboured workman like performance against a very unadventurous West Ham side wasn't a big enough sample size to suggest they were better off without him in the team. What do you do? You just might as well put him back in for the next game because you know what he can do. Maybe he can... Oh, dear.

40:01It's so bizarre what's going on with Liverpool at the moment. And we're all scrambling around and saying the same things that perhaps we've said. Everyone's almost trying to find that definitive, aha, that's what it is. Very odd. Very odd indeed. and it's to such credit that the teams like Sunderland should be treating themselves like a Champions League team effectively they shouldn't be so cagey they shouldn't be so defensive against some sides maybe that's their kind of special sauce but I do think that Sunderland could do with sort of going you know what we're probably the form team in the league let's fucking go and try and win some football matches especially like we saw at the death last night like you said that should have been a goal it should have been all three points Peter, you were very quick to, in fact, you were one of the first doubters that I can think of.

40:50I was a boo boy. Of Virgil van Dijk. And he was very poor for the third goal. His bum was very good. He's in the situation where he feels like he's in such a malaise. He feels so kind of responsible for his fellow defenders that he doesn't really want to even close space anymore. And that's really, really strange. He just seems, he's a shadow. I think even my kind of you know yap at the start of the season I thought it was you know one of those things that you say and then you know people have a go at you and it doesn't really happen but it really did go Virgil van Dijk's not his way effectively for the rest of the season very true although David Raya made a fantastic save last night kept a clean sheet so you still got to wait on that one fine high crosses guys put some high crosses in to flap I do think David Raya has got the David James DNA we just need to get it out of him.

41:43Well, Pete, I mean, Arsenal haven't had a goalkeeper in years, years, that he's as good as claiming high crosses. He claimed so many last night. He catches rather than punches. All right, fine. But, you know. All right, fine. There you go. But, you know. You've angered the Boglin there, Jim. I have, yeah. All right, let's move on to something. Oh, blimey, get on with it. Sorry, I will give Pete his due. He does sometimes make an absolute suicide pass. Right. He does that as well. so I'll be halfway on that one it's the modern game it's the modern game that'll keep the boggling at bay now let's finish with this Dan Byrne we talked about his once feud with Kai Havertz and how they buried the hatchet in the summer on a pre-season tour well today burying a hatchet I feel like it should that feels like you're burying a hatchet into someone's back do you know what I mean I was going to say exactly the same thing it's such a violent phrase it's a very violent phrase yeah like you know so you go out in the woods and you bury a hatchet that's even worse burying a weapon Because it's like you've gone, we were going to hack each other to pieces with this.

42:45But let's... Let's bury it so the police can't find it. What have you done with that hatchet, Dave? You look like you've already used it on your way here. So we'll get rid of that as ever. Well, anyway, Dan Byrne will be, in a way, performing in Blythe's pantomime as the genie from Aladdin. We love a Christmas pantomime. I do, yes. And the tradition is... Oh, no, we don't. Very good, Jim. Well played. The tradition is obviously decades old in this fine nation. But Dan Byrne is going to contribute to the one that's happening in Blythe. Get ready for wishes, laughter, and a giant dose of toon magic.

43:25Tickets are flying faster than a magic carpet. Did we see any magic carpets outside St. James' Park when the Piff Posse took over? Did they go that far? I imagine that was something that we probably would have done. They ticked every other kind of slightly xenophobic box. In the crowd. Do you think that we should be paid for advertising this bloody, what's it called, pantomime? I mean, if we have the choice, absolutely. We should just invoice it. They've absolutely done us here, haven't they? They've absolutely done us. I don't think we are going to get paid, but yeah, if they want to chuck us some cash.

43:59But he's not going to be there, of course, because he's got a busy schedule, but he's going to be the voice of the genie in the lamp. Fullback, centre-back, genie in the lamp. To ruin it all for everybody going, it's pre-recorded. He's not behind the curtain. Do you think they paid him? I hope not. Yeah, I think he probably wouldn't have taken a fee for that, but he should do, just out of respect, just a quid. Just out of respect for the profession, just a quid. Out of respect for services rendered and tax reasons. Maybe. This is GDPR. It's the thing that if you have more than one job, it's better.

44:34Remember when the ITV breakfast presenter, the Scottish one, Lorraine Kelly, was pretending that she was playing the character of Lorraine Kelly for tax purposes. And it basically screwed everybody in an entertainment or presenting sphere for years afterwards. But I'm just wondering whether Dan Byrne needs to take at least a pound's worth of fee. But if you pretend you're a character who is also you, that is a way around it. Yeah, exactly. Baffling. Which I reckon I could probably argue in a car of life. I'm not convinced I've ever met the real Pete Donaldson. Exactly. Exactly. Oh, didn't mean to.

45:17I was trying to make my voice go deep and I pressed the drum. Sorry, everyone. You should have just blamed that on the bog, Lin. I am Pete Donaldson, the real one. There we go. Gentlemen, can I get back to Dan Burton? because I don't know whether he's getting any money from the pantomime people, but he has received an honorary degree from Northumbria University, along with Eddie Howe. As in, Eddie Howe's also got a degree. He hasn't been given Eddie Howe. So, yeah, they were both made doctors of civil law. Yeah, see, I feel sorry for them because I know it's an honorary title, but it sounds more like a made-up one.

45:57I'm a doctor of law. What? Or civil law. At least give them a title that reflects the kind of honorary nature of it and the prestige it deserves, Doctor of Banter. Well, do you not think that, is there not some shithole university that can give us one? Almost not now. Is there not, like a crappy online one that's like, you know, pay 500 quid and you get a doctorate or something? You've gone in way too high with 500 quid. If we're going to get someone to approach us now, I'm not paying that. It's an honorary title. It's basically an honorary degree. It's like an OBE or something from the government.

46:39It's just a more local level. It's a pat on the back, isn't it? Dan Byrne and Eddie Howe have got a, in the picture where they're wearing their robes and their hat and stuff, Eddie Howe looks like he's in a Renaissance painting. He's got a very Renaissance painting-y face in it. Very enjoyable. And isn't Dan Byrne tall? Isn't Dan Byrne tall? Well, look, they're both doctors of civil law now. Yeah. So. Yeah. And Sir Bob Murray got one as well. It's on the Sunderland side of things. So don't, so some respect. Well, I will. I absolutely will show an enormous amount of respect. And I'm going to respect the listeners too by ending this podcast now.

47:14Okay. Thank you for listening to the Football Ramble part of the ACAST Creator Network. We'll all be back tomorrow for the preview show where we are going to be talking about some glorious things, everybody. Tune in to find out what they are, but they will be football related. or football adjacent because the World Cup draw is going to be happening. The word football will happen. You'll be in the title. You'll be in the title at least. Thank you, Petey. See you later. Thank you, Jimmy. Cheers. And thank you, Big Dan. See you tomorrow.

47:57You