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0:00Coca-Cola. For the big.

0:02Marcus Speller: For the small. The short. And the tall. Peacemakers. Risk-takers. For the optimists. Pessimists. For long-distance love. For introverts. And extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you. at Lowe's this veterans day and every day military members veterans and their spouses get automatic Milo's reward silver status benefits plus 10 % off eligible purchases with no annual limit it's one way we honor and give back to those who have served and still do learn more and verify now at lowes.com slash military 10 % discount can't be combined with another offer exclusions terms and conditions apply loyalty program subject to terms and conditions details Those are lowes.com slash terms.

0:59Subject to change. Soft, cushy, plush, cozy. Soft, smooth, buttery, marshmallowy, warm. Soft. Socks, underwear, tees, and more. Bombas. Everyday comfort worth obsessing over. Visit bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash audio. One purchase equals one donated. Always. With almost half a million customers and over a trillion dollars of secure payments, Bill isn't new to intelligent finance. It's the proven way to simplify bill pay and maximize cash flow. Want to learn more? Visit bill.com slash proven for a special offer. Hey guys, it is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre finds out.

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3:30Luke Moore: and book that appointment on your to-do list. When there's no one left to fight, boys like us don't sound so bright. Welcome to the Football Rabble! Carrick's off and Big Ben could save us all. It's Wednesday 11th of November. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. I'm Pete Donaldson. And I'm the Dishan of Hunter Raja. London!

3:59Luke Moore: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble. It's Wednesday. And I want to start by saying thanks to Friend of the Ramble, Charles. Tim's for giving us that intro line. If you want to submit an intro line for a future episode, then become a friend of the Ramble on our Patreon. You'll also get an extended edition of the Ramble today and every single Wednesday. It's called Ramble Uncut, where we really find out what Luke Moore gets up to. It's like Keys and Grey Unleashed. Is that still going? Is that still going? I don't know. They've stuck with it, weirdly. Feels like the Undertaker's podcast.

4:28That's the six episodes. Stop doing it. No sponsor. No sponsor. No one wants it. No one can handle it. No one wants this jelly. It's too unleashed. It's too unleashed. Could you leash some of it?

4:38Luke Moore: Could you just leash some of it please Richard? Click the link in the show notes to sign up now You said thank you to the friend of the Ramble Charles Timms had given us that line But beforehand you were having trouble with the length Of the actual piece of music from Jamie T From James Timpson Peter, this morning Is Michael Carrick going to still be in the job Once we finish recording? It's always a concern isn't it? But I feel like this time it could happen Well it has broken on the show before Which is exciting So maybe we can get a bit of that action as long as we keep refreshing the old BBC website or I keep checking the WhatsApps from Orny.

5:10Luke Moore: And I like we do that with BBC, with traditionalists. Yeah, absolutely. Are you in like a WhatsApp group with Orny? No. I message him loads of times about stuff I want him to tell me. Orny, tell me. For free. Right. And he replies maybe one in ten. Nice, okay. Yeah, keeps me sweet. Keeps you very sweet. It's like me with my memes on you. A little bit, yeah. Any WhatsApp groups you're in, Peter? Oh, you don't want to hear about that. I'm in a WhatsApp group with... It's more signal for you. Yeah, me and Pete Hegseth just having a chat. No, me and Luke, Luke added me to a group this week about a regional improv group that we quite enjoy on Instagram.

5:42Correct. Yeah, that's a kind of exciting. There's nothing more, I've said this before, but there's nothing more terrifying than seeing an Instagram notification saying, just says, Pete Donaldson said you were real. Yeah, especially on his Apple Watch. Yeah, horrible. It's chilling. Horrible stuff. It's like a Dead Man's, is it, what is it, Dead Man's handle? Dead Man's? Dead Man's switch. Dead Man's switch with Carrick, isn't it? He's got a run in, well, I'm thinking of like the trends Because it is a handle, isn't it? Because you push it forward to go... No, you push it back to go forwards, I think.

6:08And then if you collapse or whatever, the train stops. That's what happened to Pelham 1-2-3. Yes, it is. That's why they had confiscated it. But Carrick has to run in the office, hit a big button and go, I'm still here.

6:22Marcus Speller: If his pass still works.

6:24Luke Moore: Is it like traitors at Manchester United Football Club? I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. And the turret is Monaco. That's where they are now. As if Sir Jim Radcliffe couldn't resist spurting out that he's a traitor. Straight away. It's just so obvious. Yeah, it's true. But him, Barada and Wilcox, apparently right now are in Monaco. In the tower. Monaco's not a sinister place at all, of course. I think it's beautiful. Never been there. Barada and Barada. Delicious. Let's call the whole thing off. It's what they may well say to Michael Carrick, incidentally. But yeah, so at the time of recording, Michael Carrick is still in a job.

6:57Luke Moore: But the big news, Vish, is that Maurizio Pochettino is being chatted up by that terrible trio at Manchester United. At what point does it become abuse, Vish, that we keep making you talk about this?

7:11Marcus Speller: I was going to say, this would be the first time that I'm on the show when it has broken. Mark Goldbridge. On that TV show he does. The big thing to think of it is, have we got something else other than the Ipswich manager's been said? By the way, he's not being paid like Goldbridge. No way. Absolutely no way. Maybe I don't get upset enough. He was an ex-policeman, though. I do have a certain pang of guilt. I'd love to support Forrest. Yeah, exactly. Making Vish talk about this Man United nonsense again. But we've got to do it.

7:41Luke Moore: According to Sky Sports right now, Man United are close to agreeing potch deal as Carrick reports for work. Take the morning off, Michael. It's dignified. It's dignified.

7:50Marcus Speller: I know they're not yours anymore, but you can take the kids to school. It's going to be like, You've got to run through about five people to get to your dead man's switch. No, one more day actually.

8:00Luke Moore: But would you not do, like we admire it don't we, when somebody knows they're getting sent off, you walk. If characters are just clearing out his desk right now, before he's actually sacked, I would respect that. Does the modern manager sort of bring anything to his desk apart from like an iPad and an iPad charger? What is there to bring I suppose? Ruben Amarim's little magnets, are they still knocking around? Could be.

8:19Marcus Speller: Everyone's got a photo of Alex Ferguson. Yeah. Yeah. With his tit out.

8:23Luke Moore: Yeah. Pulling a pint at the end of the bar. I'd like the Queen Mum. Yeah, he's the Queen Mum. Pulling his tit into a pint. He's the Queen Mum of United. He's the Peggy Mitchell of Man United.

8:37Marcus Speller: I cannot be a part of this. Before you answer this properly...

8:43Luke Moore: Yeah, we will get to that in a minute. And in the Carry On films, they take off Alex Ferguson's top, And she goes, oh, you nearly got to my wine. Wine. My wine cannons. Vish, what I also like is that in the summer, Man United could have got Pochettino for free, couldn't they? But they didn't.

9:03Marcus Speller: So the funny thing about that is that I think Manchester United have been giving Pochettino blue balls for the last 10 years. Yeah, they have. Because that's been, you know, there's talk of that first dinner he had with Sir Alex Ferguson when I think he was being lined up to replace Van Gaal. How was it that far? Yeah, and that didn't come through. There was also, I think when they gave it to Ten Hag, there was a moment there he didn't make the final two when they decided to keep on either Amrium or Carrick. It really is hard to remember at this point. The final two is a bit like it was The Voice or something.

9:39Or X-Files. Or Traitors.

9:40Marcus Speller: Yeah, and then Elyos pressed a button, and they all turned around. Brilliant, come on in. Radcliffe's having a jog. Yeah. Did you see that? The detail in this meeting that Barada and Wilcox are having with Radcliffe in Monaco that obviously could last as long as it lasts, but there is a break at lunch for Radcliffe to go on a little jog. Is that right? It's got a bit cocky housey. For whatever you think about Radcliffe, and I dislike the man intensely, but he's a self-made billionaire. And if you're a self-made billionaire, I do think you should be able to decide when you go for a run. Yeah. I thought you were going to say if you were a...

10:16Marcus Speller: Also, he's in good mood for someone as old as he is. Yeah, that's how he knows how to do all the stretches. That's why he was advising all the physios at Man Utd about how to do stretching with the players, because he run them under the marathon, didn't he? Better than that would have been great for the physios, eh? Yeah. Can you imagine? Yeah, I know. But do you know what... When I hear these stories about Wilcox doing this and Wilcox doing that, I can't... I'm just like, how is he stealing the job? How is Jason Wilcox... He seems to be a particularly toxic image at the club. Everyone hates him.

10:41But also, with Barada, he is a CEO with a CV, right? He's been a CEO elsewhere. He's worked his way up in football operations at Big Clubs.

10:48Luke Moore: He knows Manchester well. Yeah, and so I'm not saying he's absolved of blame at all, but it feels strange to me that you can have the latitude to make so many bad decisions in the shape of Jason Wilcox and still be involved at a key level in making future decisions. At what point do you not say? I mean, Radcliffe's obviously useless in this area, so that's probably I'm answering my own question but if you are someone who is a ruthless business and you have to be ruthless to the point of probably quite unethical to be a billionaire right? I'd say so yeah so how is he not looking at Wilcox going hang on a minute what are you doing?

11:24Do you think he's constantly wearing his Premier League winner's medal around his neck and that's the problem and that's the problem

11:29Luke Moore: because who did they beat to get that I'm playing in the wing for Blackburn Rovers any more questions? Do you think though that maybe the reason why he's still there is much like the fans, and even one or two of the players, they also blame the hierarchy of the club. Wow, because these are really well-making decisions. So it's like in Reservoir Dogs,

11:47Marcus Speller: where they're all pointing a gun at each other. Yeah, indeed.

11:49Luke Moore: I think it's a bit like, you know, when...

11:50Marcus Speller: But like in an empty Escher painting kind of way. Yeah, okay. But when, like, Dallow makes a mistake,

11:55Luke Moore: or, like, before Ondra and Anna, or Lammons, or whatever, people go, yeah, but the thing is, the hierarchy of the club, you know, and does Wilcox go, I'd make this a bit of the glazers. They all just got glazers, didn't they? Glazers, yeah. That's it.

12:07Marcus Speller: And the fact that you mentioned Dallow there is an interesting point because I don't think it's too dissimilar to the Wilcox thing in that it feels like there aren't that many technical slash sporting directors out there. So you've just got to play Wilcox. Yeah. Harry Amass is too young to be a technical director. You've just got to play him. You've got to play Wilcox and that will give him the confidence to hope he finds his form at some point. He's always going to be played.

12:30Luke Moore: Quite incredibly, later on in the show, we will be talking about men of a certain age who shouldn't be near a professional pitch, but they have turned up on one. Stay tuned for that. I was going to say, what's really interesting about United at the moment, I think, is it's, I was thinking about this on the way in this morning, is that with the situation more broadly they're in, regardless of, you know, if it's Michael Carrick managing the club or Pochettino or whoever the fuck, it's very difficult to find what an off-ramp is away from this toxicity, away from how it can be improved. because obviously the Glazers aren't going to go anywhere unless someone comes in.

13:05Buyers are limited because the amount of money we're talking about. And then the quality of those buyers, especially in light of what we see with Man City and with state-owned football clubs generally, the quality of those buyers is going to be dubious anyway. Last time there was investment in a serious way, it was Ratcliffe, who's turned out to be beyond useless. If the situation continues, and much has been made this week of the fact that United have paid something like a billion pounds in debt repayments and interest, which basically would have built them a stadium. I mean, that's a stadium without a amount of money.

13:38But that went to a good cause, didn't it? Well, it goes... They do pay something like... Someone else crunched the numbers, I forget off the top of my head, but it's in the millions every month in interest. It's insane. It's absolutely insane. And then among all that, the same people who've made the last four or five really poor decisions are now being entrusted with making another one. And, you know, they could have had Pochettino in the summer for free, like we've talked about. They decided to give Carrick another contract for two years when they didn't need to. It's almost exactly the same in principle, Vish, isn't it?

14:12When they umdenied about 10 Haag, then they gave him another long contract anyway. Then they fired him around this time of the year, that year.

14:19Luke Moore: And then if you look at the... November is definitely the month. I think Amorim went in November. Around that time. Well, they had a bit of a period of time where they had to wait for Amorim to take a job, didn't they? And Van Nistelrooy did a game or two.

14:28Marcus Speller: Yeah, he had four games. He had a four-game farewell at Sporting. And the other thing that's, if you take it back to the football side of it, which I think is indicative, is that on the football side of it, it's actually getting worse as well. Because the season before, last after 10 games, they had 12 points and were in 13th. They played Chelsea and drew 1-0. And that was the game before Amarim took over. I think Van Nistelrooy was in charge. And then Amarim lost his job in January. after 10 games last season United were 7th with 17 points and Amarim lost his job anyway and now this season they're of course 18th with 8 points and it's getting much much worse so the whole thing seen in the round comes back to the point I was just making earlier like what's the off-ramp here?

15:10like the off-ramp here isn't immediately visible yeah

15:14Marcus Speller: I think because of that I think what they'll do with Pochettino is not to dissimilar to what Spurs did with De Zerbe in that they'll just give it to him Give them the kids to the farm. Take it. Do what you need to do because you can get us out of this hole and then further forward in our development. The thing that I would be wary if I was Pochettino is basically goes back to what we talked about at the very start is can he look at the people interviewing him and the people hiring him and be like, well, are you going to be here in a year? What's this? What about this fellow up top? He's always going for a run.

15:50Or do I want to... So he's balancing, isn't he, Pochettino? He's bouncing the size of the club. The fact that an opportunity like this doesn't come along very often. It has to be a certain set of circumstances. And a bit of this. And that. Yeah. Money. But also, does he want to, does he basically want to join the circus, right? Does he want to be working for those people? Does he want to have to deal with these situations? Does he want to try and, because he's going to have to anticipate things that are going to happen which are going to be embarrassing for him. He would have seen what happened with Amarim who cut a really kind of comical, tragic figure towards the end.

16:23Carrick's basically been mistreated by everyone apart from the fans. You know that Wilcox has done a bad job because half the fucking players in the squad tell you publicly that he has, and they're not shy about doing that. So he's got a big job ahead of him, obviously. And when you talk about giving someone like Pochettino the keys to the farm, I find that really interesting because when you think back to the shadow that looms large over all this, which of course is Sir Alex Ferguson, what job did Ferguson actually do at Man United? What did he actually do? He did. he did effectively a glorified combination of what Barada, Wilcox, and whoever the coach is.

17:04He wasn't...

17:05Marcus Speller: He was like head ambassador, basically. With a brilliant number two. Delegation. He was always going around young players' houses and chatting up with their parents. Oh, I see. But scouting networks, fucking ambassador roles.

17:17Luke Moore: One of... There was many strands to his genius, but one of them definitely was delegation. delegation. Really strong number twos who would do all the coaching. The number twos that were effectively number ones as well. So, Knox, Smith, Kidd, Kieros, Brian Kidd, McLaren. We knew all of them because they've played such a big outsized role in coaching and all that kind of stuff.

17:37Marcus Speller: Yeah. So, it's... The other thing about Ferguson is that when things started running smoothly, he didn't have to worry about the bullshit. There were all these, you know, the story of of him going to Lee Sharpe's house party and dragging out Ryan Giggs. He would do loads of little things like... We were just talking before we started recording about... It's interesting how young footballers become dads, for example. And when Johnny Evans did his first Champions League press conference when he was 21, 22, his girlfriend happened to be doing an internship at ITN or ITV, something like that. So she was at the press conference as well and Ferguson knew this.

18:17Marcus Speller: and with Johnny Evans up there, basically bullied him into proposing to him. Because in his head, it was like, if they're married, someone else is looking out for them, I can just focus on the football. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't remember the last... Trying to get them to have kids and stuff. Yeah, basically, just to anchor them. Don't use condoms, Lance. Or use the ones I've given you.

18:37Luke Moore: Put your face on them, surrounding you. It's a bit off-putting. No, I know what you mean. But when you say he can focus on the football, but he can also focus on the harmony of it all. Because he was essentially the managing director of that whole operation. And that's kind of the problem. And that's why they've struggled so much, a number of reasons, because of somebody not fulfilling that role. The club was shaped in a certain way and they've just never been able to find. But Vish also, on that though, he's also working lockstep with David Gill, right? So for 1997, Gill's at the club. From 2003, Gill becomes chief exec.

19:15and they work so closely together. I remember when David Gill stepped down in around 2013 time, Ferguson was saying stuff like, I can't remember the exact quote, but he was saying stuff like, I've lost my right arm here. This is a massive... Threaten to leave. Right, okay, for wasting all the time, mostly around racehorses. But the thing is that that's not there now, is it? It seems entirely transactional now.

19:36Marcus Speller: Yeah, and obviously this is being massively wise after the event, given we're having this conversation in 2026. Yeah, it's easy for us to hear. But the thing that Sir Alex Ferguson should have done is, he shouldn't have picked his successor, he should have picked a technical director, because he should have... I say should, but no one could have done everything that he did or be transplanted into that club to replace him. But even he didn't know that, even he couldn't see that. No, exactly. But that's why we get into this situation where, I mean, Man City Knight have had two technical directors in what, the last 12 months?

20:11Marcus Speller: Dan Ashworth came in and then was booted out in strange, strange fashion. Partly by Wilcox. Like a power struggle that Wilcox won. Yes, I suppose. But then there was nothing about it. He's a winner. He essentially went on gardening leave. So expensive. Such an expensive mistake. It's just endemic of the way... A lot of packed lunches, isn't it?

20:33Luke Moore: And Ratcliffe took the packed lunches away. I do sometimes think... Not in here, Sancho, over there. I do also think that on the appointing of David Moyes at Ferguson had a big say in, I do sometimes feel like Ferguson on that specific issue does get a lot more criticism than he deserves. And I think Ferguson gets away with a lot when it comes to things around the role he played with the Glazers and stuff like that. But on that specific issue about Moyes, I do think he gets a lot more criticism than he deserves, chiefly because I think that he cared a lot about the institution and he identified Moyes and spoke to him over a long period of time.

21:12And I absolutely still believe to this day that he thought, his thought process was, I'd never managed a club of this size when I took the job and I grew into it. And I want Moyes because he cut from the same cloth as me and I don't think it's necessarily just about the manager he is right now. It's about what he can grow into. and obviously Moyes had done this massive long for what Ferguson would have seen as like a big apprenticeship at Everton. I mean, that's disrespectful to Everton, but that's kind of what Ferguson would have seen it. And Moyes, for whatever reason, just didn't grow into the role.

21:43And then they pulled the trigger on him actually reasonably early. I think they pulled the trigger on him after the first season when he couldn't get into Champions League for one season. It was as soon as they were out of the running for the Champions League. Whereas actually, I don't think Ferguson and Moyes did an awful lot wrong there.

22:00Luke Moore: in retrospect. I know that, I know he can... Well, Ferguson didn't give him a good squad to hand over. This was not clopped as long. Right at the end of the cycle, weren't they? And Moyes did do a couple of things like he got, he kind of, he got like Fellaini in, didn't he? A couple of players that he kind of knew. Well, he had to fall back on, yeah. But if we're going retrospectively now on that era, I do think actually you can make a really good argument to say that Moyes was, I mean, you're a United fan, you tell me I'm talking shit, but that Moyes was binned way too early, given what came before.

22:26Marcus Speller: I don't necessarily agree with that, but I think what happened post Moyes was a reflection of the squad he inherited, which while they were defending champions, it was very much on its last legs. You can even track where the players went on to play.

22:42Luke Moore: They've also been unlucky in that Guardiola then comes along to Manchester City, and as we know what Manchester City were doing at that time as well. They were actually cheating. It's hard for everyone else to deal with. It's very disrespectful. Spread the process. Can Viana replace Wilcox? That's the big question. But the fact is that Man City then do what they do, and with Guardiola in charge, and they cheat, and play incredible football as well, and start winning titles. And Liverpool get Klopp in, and they do what they do.

23:13Marcus Speller: But you don't need to shit the bed and find yourself in 18th. No, but that's where we are now.

23:18Luke Moore: So all that happens, and I think actually, if that hadn't happened. Because, you know, famously Mourinho finished second. It wasn't actually that bad. But even last season, Carrick got them to third. It's this season, it's like, it is particularly bad. I mean, to give you the latest Optus supercomputer prediction simulation, Manchester United were relegated 20.9 % of the time where this simulation plays out in the Premier League. And the bet is 12 to 1. Yeah, I mean, they're not going to go down because they can always press the Pochettino or Antonio Conte button or whatever. But, you know, despite agreeing with what you're saying about, you know, Wilcox and Brada and everybody else, I do think that they've obviously inherited this situation, which they've not sorted out.

24:03Luke Moore: And that's where they've kind of failed, really. But the managers they've gone for, like I could see the thinking behind going for Amarim. I could see the thing, you know, Carrick does well. And you kind of think, well, why not like keep him on and just see what happens? But unfortunately, the whole thing is all over the place. But look, Pochettino, he's the front runner. the latest report right now at the time of recording is the decision may not be made until tomorrow. Do you think he's the best of the list that's been... Well, anyhow, Nagelsmann and Conte are also in the running. Do you guys think that's the best?

24:30Luke Moore: I would say, with regard to the job that is needed to be done, I'm not necessarily saying that these two are the best of those four, but I would say Pochettino and Howe, considering just because when Howe took over Newcastle United, where they were and he sort of had to build it up and... He's more of a project manager. Yeah, I just think, you know, again, I don't know if Pochettino's best days are behind him now. Simon Jordan made a really interesting point about Pochettino. Did he? And it's partly because, I think it's partly because Jordan is friends with Levy. So this kind of informed us. You've got to bear that in mind.

25:04But he said the biggest reflection of, I hope I'm not misquoting him, because I can't quite remember exactly what he said, but the general crux of it was the biggest concern about Pochettino going to United is Pochettino's ability to kind of manage upwards. because he said when Spurs are at the absolute apex of what they're achieving when they get to the Champions League final, he has several meetings with Levy about restrengthening and he can't sell it. He can't sell it. He can't convince Levy to invest. And that would be concerning if you're at a club that's even bigger than Spurs where you've actually got to do quite a lot of good managing up.

25:37And Pochettino's also said some really odd things when he was doing really well at Spurs. It felt a bit like he was treating the whole thing like a lottery win when they were gearing up for the Champions League. He said some really odd things about his future. He wouldn't do that now.

25:49Luke Moore: It's just years ago. Sure, so maybe it's unfair to judge him on it. But I'm just bringing that in as part of the conversation. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I think it's quite an interesting angle. He's seasoned now. He's had two years getting criticised by Alexei Alas. Now he's going to be Roy Keane and all the rest of them. Is he going to be on the blower to Trump trying to get suspensions over term? Yeah, maybe. Yeah, he has been unconcerned. Because Ferguson did that. Not with Trump specifically.

26:10Marcus Speller: Not what I was going to say. Is he a brand builder in America for Man United? They're probably thinking about that, aren't they? Probably are. They're probably a decision-breaking process. I don't know, knowing Americans, they'd be livid about him leaving. Yeah, I reckon, yeah. He's recently signed a new contract, has he not? He did, afterwards, during the World Cup, maybe? So they're going to have to pay a decent amount of money to get him out of that? Yeah. He's on six million, isn't he? Is he really? What's the pound saying against the dollar now? The thing I'll say about Carrick, you're right, he did a brilliant job last year, but that was the job, to me, in isolation.

26:42Marcus Speller: Yeah, like that was his role, he did it well, he shouldn't have been given the full-time job. I feel really bad for him. I think it's a... I do as well. He shouldn't have been offered the job in the first place. He should have been sacked at least a month ago. I feel awful for him, not least because it will colour his view of... Sorry, not his view, but his feeling of Manchester United. I don't think he needed this in his life. He looks broken. Still a club legend. His reaction to...

27:08Luke Moore: But that's why when the fans applauded him, you have to give Man United fans, I think, a bit of credit because they are considering the size of the club and considering the success they've had I know as the years go by it gets further away but still you know 10-1-1-2 trophies they're very patient fans and they do get behind the manager and I thought honestly from what you're saying I was very pleased that you got that round of applause not only that Vish I would also say if you think of the Roma game and the Villa game crowd were extraordinary in those two games they really played a role in those two comebacks

27:39Marcus Speller: and I really think you could see the effect it's had on Carrick by his reaction to the equaliser against Aston Villa. Yes. He's almost, you know, he's comatosed really and just lifts his arm. And like if he spent any longer at the club, if they gave him to the end of the season and it keeps going away, it'd be like fucking Mitch McConnell by the end of the day. It's an absolute, I mean, just weird him out. But because of the,

28:02Luke Moore: obviously the finances involved and I understand why a manager is never going to walk away. You don't get managers walk away like they used to do back in the day. No. Keegan in the toilet. Keegan in the toilet. Keegan in the toilet. Yeah. Exactly. Puch might do that to be replaced by, I don't know, John O'Shea or something. Yeah. That's the cycle, isn't it? Where's Brown, John O'Shea. Good manager, ex-player. Good manager, ex-player. What's Henning Berg up to? Surely, though, if you want to go back, if you're feeling nostalgic, an ex-player, Stevie Bruce. Brucey. It is a bit weird. Fabian Barthez.

28:31In the same way that when Scott Parker got the West Ham job, my instant reaction was, well, he's done that before. Yeah. It's the same with Bruce. How's he not done your name?

28:37Luke Moore: Because we said when Mark Hughes took the Man City job, was that when you burned your bridges there. Hey, good championship manager. That's all I'm saying. Well, exactly. Talk to him. What you actually said, well, he's a little fatty and we don't want him here. Yeah. When you were asked to give a touching tribute to Steve Bruce's contribution at Newcastle United, who's at a very difficult time in his personal life, your touching tribute was, you're a little fatty and I don't want you here. That was a while ago, that was you said about the personal. That was a while ago and it wasn't having a difficult time in his personal life.

29:02That was naughty. He's having a difficult time in his Newcastle life, in the dugout life. I thought it was great broadcasting.

29:09Luke Moore: It's in your best store, isn't it? Top ten Mormons. You mentioned earlier about Ferguson going round players' houses. You know, Ryan Giggs mainly and breaking up house parties, or Lee Sharp and all that. With his wine cannons. With his wine cannons, yeah. Squirting them. No, no, you can do that. They'd love that at the party. It's not alcoholic. It's not alcoholic. It would be like bloody coyote ugly.

29:26Marcus Speller: It's full of schlur. You'd be like the clips of the police using water cannons in Paris. Yeah. Would Sir Alex Ferguson realistically carry a coyote ugly reboot? He'd jump on the bar.

29:37Luke Moore: Just get out I'm a fucking ankle No not water Or whatever they do Just dragging One Sebastian Verón up there Use our own idiots Hell no H2O Hell no Well anyway Pochettino recently revealed That when he was St. Ampton manager He used to visit Luke Shaw's house To tell him to stop eating pizza Class Unsurprising I'd like to think He dressed up As the pizza delivery guy Dressed up as a teammate You're late aren't you Dressed up as a teammate From Call of Duty Kick the door in Do you not think Like if you're doing Enough work on the training ground You should be able To horse down a 2000 and calorie pizza.

30:08Straight after the game. They have pizzas after the game a lot, don't they? Straight after the game. Fabregas obviously taking it back to Ferguson and Fabregas threw one at him, didn't he? Yeah, it all makes sense to me. He's holding down a pro football and esports career. Show some respect. He needs the calories.

30:20Marcus Speller: Was he just waiting around the corner as if he was casing the joint, waiting for a delivery driver? No, he's dressed as a delivery driver. Might have Michael Helm. Just intercepting it and inspecting for ranch dip and stuff. Luke sure opens it up and it's just got broccoli all over it. You're not allowed to stuff crust. Enjoy your night, son.

30:38Luke Moore: He's libelled off all the crusts. This is not what I ordered. Ah, pochettino! Posh has got it. Oh, dear. Right. Coming up after this, will Arsene Wenger say football?

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33:51Luke Moore: occasions. I thought that was relevant for some reason. Right, big news, big news. Arsene Wenger, Big Veng, is considering standing against Gianni Infantino as a candidate in FIFA's presidential election next year. Will he need his gun guns? Oh, I'd say so. Big Veng and the gun guns. Get your gun guns in. No, you are talking. It's been reported that he is UEFA's preferred candidate, presumably because he's not Gianni Infantino. but he's currently head of FIFA's global development so he knows the organisation how about this, I mean he's got to make a decision soon because the deadline for candidates to stand in the election is the 18th of November it is and obviously the elections take place reasonably early next year Infantino is the heavy favourite to win a fourth and final term so could we see Gianni for one last term Peter or is probably the 77 year old Arsene Wenger going to do what a lot of his supporters want him to do is stand for and they stress one campaign you're in for four years because you're 77 years old and then stand down Mr Biden I mean Mr Wenger I like this idea because after Arsenal's title win Jim's got a little bit too comfortable and I'd quite like to see him contorted and conflicted how would Arsenal fans deal with it?

35:11yeah exactly he's now like

35:13Luke Moore: surely we want sleepy Arsene to win this I want I want Jim Campbell to deal with, you know, less pizza. Less pizza, Luke Shaw, Jim. I want him in that gym, contorting himself into all kinds of... Rhetorical gymnastics all over the place. Ten circular arguments, please, Jim. Get on the floor. Ten straw men. Yeah. I like this for one reason. I dislike it for another reason. This is about pros and cons for me. There we go. The pros for Arsene Wenger to do this job, you've already mentioned the main one, which is not Infantino, but in addition to that, he seems as incorruptible as they get for people in this kind of position.

35:50I don't remember of any kind of... Wenger was a character that we all know and he was quite interesting when he was manager of Arsenal for various different reasons, for good and bad. Mostly good, I would argue. But he does seem to be incorruptible. I don't agree with that. And if someone's a lot of criticised Infantino, I know he was part of FIFA. But part of the reason... He's head of global operations. Part of the reason that Wenger is even considering this, presumably, is because he's so pissed off with what Infantino behaved over the last year.

36:19Luke Moore: Well, all that business about the privatisation. Which he knew nothing about. He said the first I heard about it was the media report. Yeah. And also, if someone did shove an envelope in his pocket, he could just say, I did not see it. Also, if he wears that big coat, he's got really deep pockets, doesn't he? A lot of pockets. A lot of pockets. He's, he's, that big sleeping bag. He's clearly got, he's clearly got enough distance to Pocatino. That could be what he should run off. Pocatino. Yeah. He's clearly not got enough distance between him and Infantino, hasn't he? Because at the time, we were saying, well, hang on a minute, you're head of global operations.

36:47You should know about this. You should better do something. But obviously, Infantino had gone so far off the reservation that people would say, well, no one knows what's going on. The cons with Wenger... Talk shit. ...is that a lot of his ideas since he's been doing this job have been bonkers.

37:01Luke Moore: Yeah. So you would... It might well be out of the frying pan, loads of terrible financial corruption into the fire. Yes. The game is now unrecognizable. rule, everyone's wearing a jet pack. But it's still ours. And there's no offside. But it's still ours. I'll tell you what, if he became FIFA president, the quotes you'd get out of Mourinho would be superb.

37:20Marcus Speller: Oh, yeah.

37:21Luke Moore: Can you imagine that? Do you remember when he was being interviewed on, was it TNT? He was Ferdinand, Rio Ferdinand was next to him and he was, for some reason he was slagging off Arsene Wenger and he went, oh, what he wants to say about the offside rule. Yeah, yeah. Superb. Because he doesn't think, weirdly enough, because, it's obviously because of the rivalries they've experienced. Specialist in failure, he called him. And they called him a voyeur as well. Well, if he wins this election, he can watch whatever he wants. He can eat his words of Mourinho. But do you not think that in another lifetime, Mourinho and Wenger should actually have quite a lot in common?

37:49Because they both came from the same origin story. I know what you mean. They had not just kind of failed playing careers by their own standards, but they both felt... It's a touch harsh on Wenger, though. Okay, but he wasn't known as a player. Mourinho didn't have a career. He wasn't known as a player, Marcus. You've got to accept that.

38:04Luke Moore: No, I do accept that. I just say, you know, compare... Anyway, fine. And he also felt... Mourinho felt wronged by the way he was treated by Barcelona. Yeah, but mostly Barcelona. Wenger was obviously wronged by the Bernard Tapia-Marseille cheating scandal, which meant Wenger basically had to leave France. He felt like he had to leave France. They've got this origin story which is actually quite similar. Obviously, very different characters. So I just thought that's quite interesting. But also, on the Wenger thing, what has he got to do to actually have a reasonable chance of winning this? Well, he knows he's got UEFA backing.

38:35Luke Moore: Which is a chunk, but not as much as... But it's not really about... He's managing Asia as well. Pretty sweet talk there. They've got their own count of that. Well, so that's what the... Kozo Tashima, the Japan FA's honorary president. So he might have a go. Yeah, he's like a kind of... I remember around the Qatar World Cup, he was one of those guys who sort of said, I think we shouldn't talk about politics right now. Let's concentrate on the football. Yeah. So I say he might have a go. He is going to have a go because he's a declared challenger as his former Switzerland defender, Ramon Vega. Formerly of Spurs as well.

39:14He's too previously handsome, Ramon Vega, I think. Oh, far too young and handsome for FIFA presidents. No, now he looks like... Oh, God, Wieter used to manage Newcastle. Now he looks like him. Rafa Benitez. He looks like Rafa Benitez now. Wieter used to manage Newcastle. Again, terrible name. One of your most successful managers.

39:29Luke Moore: You're quoting Jose Mourinho. Most successful managers. One of Newcastle's most successful managers. Actually, in the grand scheme, I think, surely. They haven't had much success. He didn't do anything. But when Joao Avalanche got in the presidency for FIFA, he was actually very dashing. It was one of the sort of selling points. I was thinking a bit of Roger Moore, James Bond about him. He did a bit, yeah. I'm just saying that Roman Vega will be confused about why not everyone's being nice to him all the time. Vega's not going to win. He's not going to win. If he turns up with a mask and those big claw things, he might have a chance, but I don't think he's going to do it.

39:59Luke Moore: But with Vega, though, the battleground is Africa. Yeah. Because... And there's a part... See, if he goes on a charm offensive to Africa, Mark, Yes. He's got a chance of winning it, because he could get UEFA's backing, because they don't... Oh, he will get UEFA's backing. Right. That's done. Tashima could split the Asia vote, which is loads of voting members. You've got to think of the numbers. So the numbers are 55 for UEFA, 54 for Africa, 46 for Asia, right? Konka-Kaf of 35, but even like Combo, who... They've gone to Infantil. But they've only got 10 members anyway. Yeah, exactly. Don't worry about them.

40:32If they vote as a block, it's only 10. So if he goes on a charm offensive to Africa, bearing in mind that is possible given the amount of African players he's managed and had given a great career to at Arsenal and other places. Arsenal's huge in that country as well.

40:48Marcus Speller: When he's visited various countries in Africa, he's often arrived to a hero as well. Sure. Yeah, I understand. And if Tashima, who... So AFC, the Asian Football Confederation, have basically on paper said they support Infantino. But if Tashima can split that vote, Wenger could do it because you only need 106. And 55 from UEFA. And if you can get 50-odd or whatever it is from Africa, you're basically there.

41:14Luke Moore: Honestly, I really hope he goes for it. Some of them vote in blocks. That's the problem. That is the problem, yeah. I think he's the only person, and I'm quite excited as you can tell, because I just thought, it's just going to be another Infantino. A load of nonsense. Who, by the way, shouldn't even be eligible. The only reason eligible is because he loopholed the fact that he took over mid-term from Blatter. Oh, it's embarrassing. They basically changed the rules for him to do another four years. It's not an embarrassment. It's a disgrace as well it is. What about another candidate, Luke, potentially?

41:41Luke Moore: Because yesterday, Southampton Solent University lecturer Peter Alfred Heider threw his hat into the ring to try and challenge for the FIFA presidency. Yeah, I mean, I would support Infantino over him. Because he's from Southampton. Literally, because he's in Southampton. By the way, not even the main university in Savannah. Well, he suggested taking a$1 per year salary with the rest of the potential$450 ,000 salary, dependent on an independent assessment on how well he does. He can have any policy he wants. He's basically like Nicola Murray. He's not going to get in. It doesn't matter. Say what you want.

42:17Why haven't we got like a football ramble kind of... Candidate? Who are you thinking, Peter? Like a Count Bin's face. Count Top Bin's face.

42:25Luke Moore: where you just sort of So for a minute Don't hate that

42:28Marcus Speller: Cow top bins face Cow top bins face

42:30Luke Moore: That is good You started that by saying why don't we have a ramble candidate and Vish immediately pointed to me you know someone who could charm the nation but then immediately Who has charmed the nation? I would say so on many occasions What about the continent though? Well You know me

42:43Marcus Speller: A little bit of Japanese being to Kenya And suddenly you thought Yeah you're going to go straight to Africa you're going to bypass

42:48Luke Moore: mainland Europe Absolutely I know I've got them and you immediately thought oh no I have to make this about me So you put top bin face in there. I think the Ramble nation should choose a candidate. It's only as a primary. Chaos or order? VAR every third match. The pitch is an octagon. Two Moldovas in every World Cup.

43:13Marcus Speller: Two Moldovan teams. This is a good snapshot of what kind of candidates you'd be. You've already talked about canvassing and glad-handing. He's just thrown out policies. One of us is taking this seriously. Marcus wants to kiss babies. So much kissing babies. Pete, more babies on the pit. My problem now it is. Babies. Spilly, you had a hero's welcome in Kenya, I believe, and Ghana. So you've got a good little foothold in that. Photographic evidence of that as well. Europe, I think, would be more of a problem for you. Why is that? Food. Yeah. Food? You don't get stuck into the... That's a good point, actually.

43:41You don't get stuck into local food much. Convertedly. That's actually not true. Okay, if I'm sending you... If I'm your campaign manager, which really should be how this works, that's fair.

43:49Luke Moore: Yeah, indeed, yeah. I'm sending you... I need some shadowy figure behind me. I'm sending you to lots of different places around the world, and you've got to indulge in the food. That's absolutely fine. You're going to be on a concealed ham and cheese sandwich on your arm, like a patch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're eating, like, what are we in, oh, God, in South Africa. We went to Soweto, and I had some... Yeah, loads of offal. Offal, loads of offal. I had some offal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't remember you getting involved in that, Keir. Bit of tripe. Bit of tripe. I had a bit of tripe, didn't I?

44:16Luke Moore: Yeah, I mean, I did, but okay. You love tripe. Oh, yeah.

44:22Marcus Speller: Your Ed Miliband moment will be eating a bacon sandwich, but in the Islamic part of Turkey.

44:28Luke Moore: That's what it's going to do. That's what it would be. Can I just make it absolutely clear? I would fall flat on my face. I would vote for Marcus ahead of Pete. It's when they bring out the alcohol. That's when I would fall flat. You felt it through a refrigerator. Again, could you two be more opposite? There we are.

44:45Marcus Speller: I mean, your internet history rules you out. Did Brough Blatter out?

44:50Luke Moore: It's not pre-internet though. Look at it in there. Pre-internet. It was all written down with Blatter. Very clever until it wasn't. Well, there we are. We'll find out how we can do that. Just have normally like Forest Green Robbers. Don't have a manager. Don't have anyone in charge. Let's just let the chips lay where they lay. Don't type in and check the Forest Green Robbers. I'm just checking. It was Forest Green Robbers, wasn't it? It was, yeah. It is for a while, but not now. I think that's what they proposed last week. Have they changed it already? They've got a caretaker, apparently. Have they?

45:19Luke Moore: That's long. I wonder why. I wonder bloody why. Well, did you see, gentlemen, Guy Fawkes and I, obviously, who happened last week, in Eden Bridge in Kent, Infantino was used as an effigy for their bonfire night celebrations. The effigy depicted Infantino holding a bust of Donald Trump's head with money coming out of his ears. There was also a big effigy in the famous Lewis Guy Fawkes night celebrations where Infantino was depicted wearing an Argentina shirt. And I think it had I Love Messi on the back. It was a bit lazy, though. Yeah, you missed the point, really. I think with those kind of celebrations, I do reserve my glee until I've seen the rest of the floats.

45:56Yeah. Oh, good point. Yeah. And I also think... The Inbridge-Kent ones had an entire school blackout. You're joking. Did they really? Yeah, 2018. It was a celebration of the Caribbean influence in Britain. Oh, jeez. Different time. And the head teacher had to apologise. I hope we got fired. That's a demented thing, didn't we?

46:16Luke Moore: Because the Lewis one is, I mean, it may be somewhat controversial, but I didn't think it was that sort of... Lewis is very, very left-wing. Yeah, right. That's what I thought. Right down, they're kind of famous for that. Whenever they say Papi Amache, I'm like, right. But I also think here, I mean, it's quite weird. They're doing this in November. These were the big stories of the summer, really. I kind of get Donald Trump, maybe, but Ian Francino's still holding court in this way in November. Takes a long time to make. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, a Richard Key's head that took me all summer. Yeah, true.

46:47As my daughter asked me, what are you doing, Daddy? Yeah, and you couldn't tell her. I couldn't tell her. I'm making a big head of a wrong one. Didn't have it in you. Didn't have it in me.

46:53Luke Moore: Well, I think what is something that has been very, very evident in this show so far, that strong leadership is important. And we've talked about Manchester United, for crying out loud. We've talked about FIFA. Strong leadership is important. We've spoken about Count Toppin's face. Yeah, indeed, yeah. Another man who agrees that strong leadership is necessary. And so that's what you need. You need very strong, incorruptible figures at a top level in the game. And this is where we turn our attention to Suriname in South America. Do you remember the former vice president of Suriname, Ronnie Brunswick?

47:28Yeah, he's had an amazing life. He has an amazing life.

47:32Luke Moore: So you might remember him. We spoke about him in 2021 at the age of 60, where he played in a CONCACAF league fixture at the age of 60, which his team lost 6-0. And after the match, there was video footage surfacing, which appeared to show Brunswick handing out cash inside the opposition dressing room. And they lost 6-0.

47:52Marcus Speller: Thanks for keeping it to 6.

47:54Luke Moore: Yeah, thanks for not tackling me. And then a subsequent investigation by CONCACAF led both clubs being expelled from the tournament, and Brunswick received a three-year ban. And at the time, we kind of look back at other things he may have done. One of the highlights being, in 1999, a court in Netherlands sentenced him in absentia to eight years in prison for cocaine trafficking. Yeah, and I think you'd also have to be quite a brave person to tackle him anyway, given that I think he was essentially, he brought forces and caused a civil war in Suriname and took on the government in a military coup, effectively.

48:27Yeah, so he's...

48:28Marcus Speller: Also, even the Netherlands being like, that's too much cocaine. That's the Netherlands saying that. Who was the judge? Fucking Brandon Bloch. That is the Netherlands saying that.

48:39Luke Moore: Yeah, so... Don Jr. He's had quite the life. I should say in 2024, just two years ago, that the Suriname Major League was established with FIFA's help, of course, which was to help modernise and raise the standard across the country, because they're not exactly a strong footballing nation. In a part of the world where there's lots of strong footballing nations. It's a lovely story. It's Ronnie Puckering the money.

49:01Marcus Speller: I'm Ronnie Pickering. It's a great idea. How's it gone, Marcus?

49:07Luke Moore: Big Ronnie is currently the owner of Inter, Moen, Go, Tapoe, that I'll be calling them Inter for the rest of the time. Do you want to know what stadium they play in? Go on. The Ronnie Brunswick Stadium. There you go. Good. So Big Ron, you know, has got a bit of a rap sheet, shall we say. He's currently club captain as well, by the way. Well, of course he is. Because the Suriname Major League is here to, as I say, to help modernize and raise the standard across the country. The other week he subbed himself on to score a penalty at the age of 65. He needs to be experienced. Marcus, I know what you're thinking, but just bear with me here.

49:41It's a crucial penalty. And who would you like to take it rather than the experienced club captain?

49:48Luke Moore: Yeah, true enough. It's a great decision. Well, look, he slotted it away. So much so the keeper was barely moved. Yeah. Very static. He put an arm out. Eventually. Yeah.

49:59Marcus Speller: To be fair, he was probably more concerned about the red dot that was hovering above his forehead. Those laser pointers. Very much like playing... I mean the situation in that goalkeeper was very much like playing Paul in the pub against Begbie. Yes. You probably won't lose if you know what you're about. Exactly, yeah, yeah. It's literally his name above the door.

50:15Luke Moore: So yeah, just a glance at Big Ron's Wikipedia page. His senior football career, years 1987 to 2011 with Inter, appearances three. And so he finished in 2011, which I thought was very, you know, too quick. It was too early and he came back of course in 2021. He was only 50 when he retired the first time. Yeah, he had a 10 year sort of sabbatical from football. His number's like 62 so presumably he's been in the squad for three years. Because that will have been his age. There you go, that's it.

50:45Marcus Speller: As Carragher said, buy the football before the football leaves you. I'd say so.

50:49Luke Moore: I'd absolutely say so. One on the eye of King Kazoo, isn't it? Very much so, yeah.

50:54Marcus Speller: Is he funded? Who funds him? Yeah, I think he's got quite important relations with people in his family, I think, around the area. Okay, we'll leave it at that. Now he goes coy. Can't desecrate King.

51:09Luke Moore: A country that I visit every now and then. I mean, his last person was at his brother's club, who was managing it. Have you ever done Suriname in the South American jaunt? No. Marcus? You've been all over the place down there, haven't you? I have, but not Suriname. A lot of dogs and jeans up there, apparently. Dogs and jeans. I was very happy when I saw it in Argentina. You also need to bear in mind that on Ronnie, old Ronnie, Big Ron. Ron Jeremy. Part of the reason he may... Would be a more serious candidate. He may not have come back earlier is because after an investigation by CONCACAF, he was found to be in serious breach of integrity rules.

51:38Really? And wasn't allowed to play. He wasn't really allowed to... The quote is, he wasn't allowed to participate in any capacity in CONCACAF competitions for three years from 2021. Three years. And your children's children. Give yourself 18 months to get your fitness back. Yeah. and then back in the fray again, mate.

51:55Marcus Speller: He was already involved in CONCACAF after the eight-year sentence for cocaine trafficking. He's been busy. He's been busy with cocaine trafficking. Yeah, and also... And aren't in Netherlands as well. And also, it is worth bearing in mind, you know, Jack Warner was literally selling tickets for Sikhs that didn't exist before he got a ban. So, I mean, yeah. At least he had the gear. Yeah, exactly. Oh, dear.

52:16Luke Moore: Oh, dear. The difference between him and Jack Warner is only one of them inspired Robbie Hell. That's true. Robbie Earle that was a great story as well wasn't it the ICV cut to like 15 really attractive blonde women in Robbie Earle's seat with Robbie Earle's reputation was that World Cup 2010 it was wasn't it was it 2010 I think it was 2010 at least he scored at a World Cup yeah editors are going to have a lot of work to do this afternoon there we are thank you for listening to the Football Ramble part of the Egghouse Creator Network friends of the Ramble don't go anywhere keep listening for Ramble Uncut and if you're not a friend of the Ramble sign up now at patreon.com forward slash football ramble.

52:55There we are.

52:55Luke Moore: Thank you very much, Luke. Thank you. Thank you, Pete. Ta-ta. Thank you, Bish. Cheers. Thank you, Big Ron.

53:08The Football Ramble is a Stack production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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