Now That’s What I Call Manchester United

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3:32Hey, how you doing? Welcome to the Football Hour, everybody. It's Monday. It's that time again to pour over the weekend's footballing action. You'll be pleased to know that Jim Campbell and David Cartlidge are with me to do such a thing. Gentlemen, what a weekend. We had FA Cup first round stuff. We'll get to that in a bit. And we also had a little thing called the Premier League. We start with a classic, a Premier League classic. You don't often get a classic, Jim, by definition of the genre. But Manchester United are absolute must viewing at the moment. Box office. For all the right and wrong reasons you can think of, because they drew 4-4 with Aston Villa.

4:15The takeaway is Aston Villa just cannot win at Old Trafford, despite being given an enormous helping hand on a couple of occasions.

4:22Jim Campbell: Aston Villa, I looked at this this morning, have beaten Manchester United four times in this century. Their record is unbelievably bad against them. To Aston Villa, it is still the 90s if you're playing Man United. They are so, so in their own heads. But that made for the game of the season so far. I mean, I think Man United just got sick of themselves. So kind of started playing without the kind of fear that kind of really paralyzes them a lot. And their attacking talent all woke up because they were sick of themselves, sick of all the punchlines. Aston Villa's inferiority complex against Man United came to the fore and the result was just absolutely barnstorming.

5:03Jim Campbell: Oh, David. He's not wrong, is he? hold Jim Campbell? No, he's not. Pure Barclays. It was a proper throwback, this. It was interesting. I mean, the defending was absolutely outrageous at the time. I love how Manning United are very much in their banter era right now. You'll know this from Arsenal having their own banter era. Arsenal's banter era wasn't this. This is a different level. You did have moments, like when, remember when a bouier got booed off? Things like that. So things like that. Newcastle coming back from 4-0 down. Things like that happen in your band era, and Manning Aiton really said, it is our band era, we're going to enjoy this.

5:41And they just saw it in it. It's brilliant. It's put our clown shoes on. Oh, my goodness. We're into November, people. And Manchester United remain in the relegation zone going into the international break. They haven't won a league game since the 30th of August when the beat Ipswich down 5-2. My goodness. I mean, how old was this game? And they were a goal down. Aston Villa, 2-0 up after four minutes. And Jim, I know that Villa have that dreadful record at Old Trafford, and it still remains, even though they've got a point. I don't think they'll look at it as gaining a point, funnily enough. But when they went 2-0 up, you think to itself, any chat of, can Man United build on that performance against Roma?

6:25At that moment, because you have to say, maybe they can. Maybe they're good for a comeback. I mean, you've got to give an ounce of credit, I suppose. but in that moment you're just thinking blimey O 'Reilly this is

6:35Jim Campbell: and when the second goal comes in I think this this is this is a good time for someone who may or may not have been talking up Nicholas Jackson here and there for a couple of seasons on a particular podcast but yeah but you are you're right you are thinking at that point this is it's just getting silly that you know there was such a massive outpouring of positive emotion after the Roma game and it looks like it's been thrown out the window but at the same time because of that record that Villa have got, it's always in the back of your mind. And I think it's absolutely gutting for Man United, isn't it, to be really the headliners of the weekend and the stars of the weekend and to still be in the bottom three and for that still to be part of the narrative as well.

7:15Jim Campbell: Because this is twice in a week they don't know they've beaten, right? It's ridiculous for Villa to twice throw away a two-goal lead in this situation. But the sort of Jekyll and Hyde nature of Man United's defence and attack is incredible, isn't it? It's absolutely incredible because the stark contrast between the quality of both of them. But this is... The contrast is about... Because as you just said there, they don't know they're beaten. I mean, they do, don't they? But the last couple of performances, it's the strangest thing in the world. It's so calamitous. And yet you have to give some credit because they fought back and got something.

7:49Jim Campbell: Vish said recently it was outrageous for them to be this bad and to not at least be entertaining. And they've addressed that for him. But they certainly have. there's such a confusing side when they do stuff like this David but I mean look they've conceded the most goals in Europe's major leagues this season so far I mean 30 goals they've shipped in all competitions they've been battered this season a couple of times and again when they were 2-0 down you thought well here we go again yeah the defence is porous and you look at the individual mistakes and the collective ones as well I mean Joros Hedon is bizarre to me I've watched him the past few games and he's heading he just doesn't know where to place and where it put it and I think for one of the goals he headed it back infield when it was much easier just to put it out Well he nearly scored an own goal and then he nearly scored an own goal as well and I've watched I think it was against Como as well or Romer he was very similar with his heading as well and he doesn't seem to know what to do Dalo is the target of the Boo Boys right now I mean it was vicious against him and he was cheered off when he got taken off I felt sorry for him if I'm honest Yeah especially when I saw the clip after the game when the players have to walk through the people who have paid a bit of extra money to look at the clear.

8:55Yeah, yeah, yeah.

8:58Jim Campbell: You paid for it, you might as well get your money's worth. Do you think it's like, if you go back to medieval times, you pay like an extra, you know, I don't know what the currency was back then. Groats. Groats is the word I'm looking for. And you get to chuck a turnip, the person in the old thingamajig, you know. Yeah, and then Maguire's back to old Maguire, funny Maguire, very, very flat-footed. His position was all over the place as well. and yes there's those individual errors but then as a collective as well you just you'd look at there's no organization there's no system there that they really are when they lose the ball in attack their their defensive transition work is just absolutely appalling and that is why character is being criticized because those sort of things you kind of like saying right you've got to have us in a better shape a better setup for when we lose the ball and they lose the ball a lot when they're in attack when attacks break down because they haven't got that focal point at the moment with Susco out.

9:45Yeah, Simon Elliott says on YouTube, despite yesterday's defensive shenanigans by Aston Villa, Carrick will be gone by lunchtime or at least 10 minutes after this recording finishes. Yes, Simon, you know us very well. But they don't know who they want. That's why he's still there. That's clearly it. The defensive stuff with Manchester United. Last season, Carrick obviously came in with the great Steve Holland as well. and the defence improved. And a number of people, understandably, said they defend somewhat similar, which is very understandable, to Southgate's England, because obviously Holland was there at the time, and you'd expect that.

10:25And they seem to be better at the... Why is it so bad?

10:30Jim Campbell: Yeah, it is fascinating, isn't it? Because it's tempting to say that they're almost like comparable to PSG, in that PSG rest their key team in the domestic league and play everyone else in the Champions League, whereas last season, Man United rested their Champions League, League Cup and FA Cup teams to just play the best guys in the Premier League. But it can't just be that. It can't just be that they were so much fresher than everyone last season because they played fewer games. That's the obvious thing to point to, isn't it? But you hear talk of kind of cliques and infighting in the dressing room.

11:01Jim Campbell: I think there's got to be some truth to that because a lot of the time it looks like the players aren't really playing for each other and also don't really trust each other. Because some of that, it's just so disorganized at times, isn't it? Every time a team break on them, it's like you're over the park, and the other team are better than you. You're like, we've got no plan here. We're just a group of people that happen to be here. We just happen to be wearing the same top. Yeah, I know what you mean. Because, again, the problems at Manchester United obviously run incredibly deep, and they run all the way to the top.

11:34And we know that. And the Glazers, it would be great for Manchester United. And I think football in general, if they were to go. so that's obviously the case in the big picture here, however when it comes to being on the pitch and just organising the defence like I can't understand why it's that bad, people might say oh well a lot of the players don't want to be there, okay it all goes into it, I understand but this bad? No it shouldn't be this bad for these experienced players I'm not expecting Franco Barrezi and Maldini and the boys and Costa-Curta at the back. Do you know what I mean? But what you are expecting is to not look like a team, as Jim says, who are playing down the park.

12:16Jim Campbell: I think this is half the story though, isn't it? Because, you know, they've scored four goals here and they've snatched a point from the jewels of zero points twice. It just shows you, doesn't it? Like, if they can just tighten that defence up, go right back to basics, as Carrick did when he first came in, surely, maybe I'm being naive here, but after the week they've had, with these two comebacks, surely this is a massive positive. Jimmy, are you going to call them mentality monsters? No, I'm not. I'm going to decline your invitation to do that. I think you're wise to. Yeah, so, I mean, look, we talk about the bad, but again, this is the mad thing about this particular football match.

12:57Villa, they go 2-0 up, they're looking great, and then completely cede all control that they had, which, if you're a Villa fan, you're going away thinking, how on earth did we not win this game and so Man United obviously Fernandes scores a penalty Tielemans scores but then straight after half time same again yeah after half time same again McGinn he gets one and Goretzka lovely to see him there we haven't seen him too much in a Villa shirt and 4-2 and you think alright if you're a Villa fan there you go but they still managed to throw that away yeah I think Emery's changes were a little bit naive or arrogant do you think he thought oh this is done I think he thought it was done I mean a lot of the home faithful thought it was done they left I thought it was very surprising because Villa I know Villa get talked up a lot and what have you but they've got previous this season as well they were leading against Brentford ended up drawing 2-2 leading against Forest as well lost 2-1 I think they've squandered six points this season already from winning positions it was seven in the entirety of last season so they have got previous and I think Emery's got a poor record at Old Trafford as well I think he's had about six or seven leads in eight games at Old Trafford and he squandered they've never won well he's an Aston Villa manager so he's therefore got a poor record at Old Trafford but I mean a glorious opportunity for them to put that away and And Sion Suzuki, who we all know is a great goalkeeper, it's another big error for him.

14:11Jim Campbell: An absolute howler against Fulham. I mean, I've seen a lot of Villa fans saying they think it's a foul on Suzuki from Lammons or sort of Lammons getting involved leads to a foul on Suzuki. Keeper on keeper active. Is that why it just, you know, goalkeepers can do whatever they like? Yeah. What do you think of that? I think it's probably not quite there. Yeah, I think he's got to be stronger on that. A lot of chaos. But I mean, Lammons... It wasn't West Ham and David Rye alone. No, sure. Exactly. Lammons' presence... Don't bring that back, Flea. I'm not even getting PTSD. No one was holding the goalkeeper's arm for ages.

14:47Jim Campbell: Right, Jim. But Lammons' presence was felt right. He actually, as far as the genre of goalkeepers going up for a corner in the last minute goes, he did a great job there. Just the nuisance value of it was excellent. But yeah, Dorgou doesn't even jump. They just don't deal with him. and perhaps that's the extra man doing its job. Lammons owed the team that because, you know, he made... The first two were... Oh, wow, yeah. Yeah, I mean, do you know what? It's a Man United goalkeeper. And Lammons has done well, I think. You know, one of the things that people have been saying is the biggest praise you can say to him is that he'd stopped all the chat about Man United goalkeepers making errors.

15:24So I don't want to be too harsh on him. But in this game, yeah, there were a couple of errors there. So... It's creeping back. It's not good for the mini Courtois discourse. No, it isn't. He needs to step up. Yeah, the non-Hollywood Andrew Garfield. Garfield, yeah. He does look like him, doesn't he? Do you think? Yeah. I expect him, so when Lammons talks, I expect him to sound like Andrew Garfield.

15:43Jim Campbell: He does sort of look like if you mashed Andrew Garfield and Thibaut Courtois together, actually. Yeah, there you go. Without the sort of dangly arms of Thibaut Courtois. Yes. Well, look, I mean, this was absolutely grim. Was Lenny Uro lucky not to be sent off for his challenge on Yohan Manzambi, do you think? It was robust. It was robust. I mean it wasn't it wasn't an obvious red card like Bogles for Leeds United I'm with you Spurs fans on that I thought that was a red card but there we are it looked painful David's given me the look there I personally if someone had cut a player in half with a chainsaw and not got sent on for it I still wouldn't really want to talk about it I just think it's really dull it's really dull Chainsaws talking about was something a red card or not it's not why we're here okay Gah!

16:33Jim Campbell: All right. And that is why Gabriel never gets sent off. Exactly, because it's boring. It's utterly boring. Ah, deary me. Well, look, an incredible game at Old Trafford. Managed to snatch a point. Does this change anything, David? I mean, it doesn't really, does it? No, absolutely not. Carrick still needs to go when the ball can finally make a matchup. Do you think that, despite all the madness that's going on, Carrick has to go? 100%. Yeah, I mean, despite everything that's going on, It's their lowest league position in 40 years at this point. So it's, you know... Okay, okay. Pretty bad, isn't it?

17:06Jim Campbell: Yeah. You know, I'm just asking the question, Jim. Yeah, no, but... You make a very strong argument. The answer is confusing, though, because it seems really unfair to look at if you take these last two games in isolation to go, oh, he has to go. Can Steve Holland stay, do you think? For your sake, I hope so. Get Gareth Southgate in. Holland's already there. No. No, that would be... I wouldn't want that for Sir Gareth. I wouldn't want it, Jim. I don't think money and aid funds would want it either. Well, I don't care what they want. I'm just saying what I want. Look, he famously doesn't really want to be involved in football anymore, but he famously didn't want to manage England.

17:37Jim Campbell: So maybe this is... That is it! Maybe you have to make him do stuff. That's what Man United are in that position England were a little while ago, of you need to give the job to someone who doesn't want the job, which rules out Antonio Conte straight away. Incredibly. Incredibly, yeah. Unbelievable. Well, look, yes, Carrick got a little bit prickly, didn't he, after the game when he was asked about this? Understandably so. Yeah, so did Emery as well. Emery was very prickly about it as well in the Sky Sports interview. They were asking him, should Michael Kerrick be sacked? He's like, what are you asking me this for?

18:10He had a bit of an issue with the added-on time and the six minutes and then Manning out scoring in the six minutes and he wasn't very happy about that. So yeah, he was fuming. Okay, alright. It is annoying to be beaten by a bigger club, of course. If the Aston Villa chair... Lawyer up.

18:32With the Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5 % cash back at different categories each quarter on up to$1 ,500 in purchases. That's 5 % cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to Discover. Terms apply. See discover.com slash 5 for details. Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets.

19:10No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's G-O-O dot G-L-E slash workspace with Gemini.

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20:51over in London Crystal Palace were beaten 3-0 by Liverpool at the time of recording PS Arge is still Crystal Palace manager but the chat is that he will be sacked very very soon Palace of course only won two of ten Premier League games this season under the Fantasy Frenchman they've won just once in eight games across all competitions despite the roll neck gym we do think that PSR will be off very soon with Thomas Frank apparently yeah being the forerunner

21:25Jim Campbell: Thomas Frank marauding around London like a ninth century Danish warrior who's particularly polite it would seem he just loves it for a ninth century yeah yeah yeah he's you know he's got a very different approach to most of them and actually it's worked quite well for him to a degree but The law has been effective. It has. It has. I think things are so bad for PSRs that you've wiped off the penalty they scored. Oh, sorry, Edith. Fair enough. It was 3-1. It was, yeah. 3-1. Sorry, Eddie Nketiah. I'm taking goals away from Eddie Nketiah. I do apologise. Now, that was a strange penalty as well. Oh, yeah.

21:58Jim Campbell: Just a 50-50, wasn't it? Yeah. Games gone, etc. Boring. Yeah, so it does feel like surely the curse of the ramble is going to be going to strike PSR, and by the time we finish this, there might be some sort of news on his future. But I mean, life does come at you fast in the Premier League. It does. I think this is a weird season in that a few seasons ago, we were talking about the gap between the Premier League and the Championship starting to be so big that the promoted teams just didn't have a chance. And this season, the Premier League can't handle the Championship. No. It's all up in the Premier League's face.

22:34Jim Campbell: It is. And that has created a really kind of panicky situation for some of those teams who are like Palace down there. So I think actually we often sort of, you know, decry chairman pulling the trigger on a sacking. But this does look like it's one where this doesn't look good. I think the squad's weaker than it was last season. Mark Gay and Daniel Munoz are big losses, but it's not like, it's not terrible. There's some real talent in there. So you wonder if like actually the sensible thing to do would be to go, look, this hasn't worked out. It looks like we could slide into a bad situation quickly.

23:10Jim Campbell: let's make a change. If someone like Thomas Frank is available, someone with a proven track record, I think it's a bit of a no-brainer. I think if they could get Thomas Frank in there, that would be very good for Palace. I mean, look, Piesage, not that experienced as a manager, David. Now, obviously, last season, he was, you know, league earn manager of the season. Lawn's finished, what, second in the league. They won the cup, which was the first trophy in their history, first major trophy. So you can kind of say he loves a back three. So you can see why Palace sort of thought, actually, hang on a minute, in it.

23:40You know, Glasner goes off and actually this guy, there's some similarities there from what he's achieved and what he does. But just reading some pieces around him, because I'll be honest, I didn't watch much of Lons last season. It seemed that Lons were a side, hence their second place finish in Ligue 1, who, you know, despite their sort of you know, if you look at it on paper, the tactical set up seems similar to what Palace liked to do under Glasner. It was very different because they were on the front foot. The game was often played in the opposition's half. Whereas under Glasner at Palace, what they did was soak it up and then hit on the break.

24:12And the two things have been very different. And Sarge has not managed so far to implement his style into this Palace side. Yeah, because I don't think he's had the players that would help him implement the style. He's been, this has been a few months now and this goes back to the summer that he was on about, we need players who have pace. We need recovery pace and then we also need players who can play on the break. He genuinely feels that the squad doesn't have that. And I get where he's coming from. He's been very unlucky. They've been without Mateta Saar's only played three times I mean, they're big players Couple that with the players that they have Consistently sold as well Maxence Lacroix as well He was brilliant He stuck around with Him and Gay were great Gay goes He's on his own And then now he goes as well I really, really rate Canva I think he's a very good young defender I think he's going to be a really good defender actually But, my word They've been He's been left short I think he's been dealt a really, really bad hat by Steve Parrish.

25:11And they're getting what they deserve in terms of... Wait, sorry. Parrish is getting what he deserves, I think. If he wanted to operate in the club in this model, then this is what you've got to expect on this austerity. He hasn't invested properly. And the signs have been bad all along. I mean, you've got to look what happened. Don't forget all the Holmesdale fanatics. Yeah, they've gone. Yeah, they went as well. And I think that was... That was a very unfortunate situation. Yeah, they were a big factor at that club. and I think when you take that out you lose a bit of the soul and then as I say when these players are such interchangeable with that squad as well you're going to lose a lot and you can't expect too much more yeah and it is I mean yeah you remind me of the fanatics you know and obviously what Palace have achieved in the last few seasons they've had you know an incredible time and look they're still very very much alive we're only in November a couple of wins and then suddenly it all changes but I yeah if I was a Palace fan okay so as a Fulham fan who were also you know down there I would be thinking yeah I'd want Sarge to stay on and I wouldn't want them to get Thomas Frank really because they'll be worse oh I see what you mean as a Fulham fan because Fulham will you know down there the relegation battle is going to be so tight you know every team's looking around going I really hope they're rubbish and they're you know because it's going to help the cause Sarge said after the game if my job is to convince people of the best thing then they just have to believe in that if that's not the case then they will make a decision.

26:36So I'm obviously very aware of course he would be of his own situation. You know, it's unfortunate for him of course, but despite all this, Crystal Palace have still won twice at Craven Cottage this season.

26:51Death taxes and Palace winning at the Cottage. Truly, truly Craven.

26:59I know, I know. But Palace's defeat of course meant that Sunderland moved up to 19th, David. We're back. We're not. Come on. Good 1-0 win against Chelsea. There was more of last season, Sunderland. There was some meaty challenges. Big Brian was back. Oh, Broby was absolute hand-flop. Lugo 9 was tearing about, perhaps too much. And yeah, no, look, encouraging signs there, absolutely. But I still don't think everything is, you know, rosy again. No. Did you think it was a penalty then, David? Which one are you referring to? The one that was given. Or the one that was given. Look, I don't think it was.

27:36No, honestly. There you go. You're an honest man and you like a robust challenge. Yeah, exactly. I'll be honest. No, look, I thought Broby was very lucky. You know, I'd be fuming. If Chelsea had won 1-0 and that was what we wanted, I'd be livid. I'd be tearing the TV off the wall. Chelsea's such a Jekyll and Hyde side, aren't they? Yeah. Because they were so uninspiring in this game. With Sunderland, I know they didn't sort of create too much, but if Sunderland were bottom of the league, they're having a tough time. You get physical. You've got to get physical. Make it difficult for you. Do the basics.

28:06Yeah, and Chelsea. Because that's what Sunderland weren't doing, you know, against Dinamo Zagreb. Yeah. Right? The basics were not being done and fans were like, oof, this is bad. When the basics are not being done, you look at LeBri and you think, he's had such an amazing season last season. It'd be such a shame if he were to be put in this situation. Whereas the basics were done there. You do the basics right, you restrict the opposition, you've got a chance and then you get the penalty. Okay, Ferturus won and it's gone. But yeah, Chelsea though,

28:32Jim Campbell: so uninspiring, Jim, in this game. Yeah, and Jekyll and Hyde is right, isn't it? Because we've seen how much attack and talent they've got. Obviously, you know, they've been quite inconsistent throughout the season. I wonder if sometimes, you know, that kind of robust physical nature that a lot of Premier League teams have running through their profile can stifle that quite effectively after a while, though. I think Alonso is still figuring out how to get the best out of his... out of his kind of squad, really, and kind of calibrating that midfield in particular. But I mean, if you look at their stats, Jim, they've played 10, won five, lost four.

29:14They've scored 19 goals, which is more than most in the league, but they've conceded 16, which other than Aston Villa, who have only conceded one more after what happened in the weekend in the top 10, it's way more than a lot of the other sides around them. They're really top heavy, aren't they? Yeah, but it shows you that, I mean, they're a fascinating team to watch, other than that game against Sunderland. Because of that, you just simply do not know what you're going to get. And yet, you know, after 10 games, they've got 16 points. They're still going to be competitive, you would think, when it comes to the Champions League spots, David, because of the nature of this season.

29:47Yeah, but I mean, you've got to remember, at the end of the transfer window, they didn't get a midfielder. And I think that's hit them a lot. They got Jordan Henderson in. Yeah, come on, I love Jordan, don't get me wrong. but come on for the aspirations that Alonso has with Chelsea but I think clearly they wanted Granit Xhaka because Alonso's worked with him before so he wanted that senior figure I think it's mad that Henderson's in there but Henderson's not the problem so I think he's doing actually quite well I think they also backed Romeo Lavia right to play a bit more who's been really good by the way let's say he's been really good and they've had their injuries as well I mean I think Joao Pedro's obviously a massive injury yeah I didn't expect them to be hurting so much without him and I'm really surprised so I thought Welbeck was ideal for that game I thought Our defence is a little bit fragile at the moment.

30:29I thought Weldek's the sort of person who just does not stop. He's relentless. He's a hero at our place as well. He knows the club. Yeah, and I thought he would have... He scored a winner against Chelsea for you many years ago, didn't he? Absolutely, yeah. And I mean, I thought he would have given someone a lot of issues, kind of like Robbie did to Chelsea. Well, he was the only one who came on. Well, he had a header just over the bar. Yeah, yeah. And if you bring him in in the manner that they did, I think, don't you start him in this game? Pedro Neto up front.

30:53Jim Campbell: Very strange, especially in this fixture. Just come on. Yeah. What is he playing at? It's a strange one. It's poor. Because Neto's been quite effective as a wingback. Oh, he's a good player, Neto. Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying he's not that. He's okay. I almost think he's very good at all. Well, okay, fine. But he's never a striker. Yes. And by the way, we've got some good striker chat on tomorrow's mailbag. So get your ears around that. We'll be saying Brian Brobby a lot. We might well be. Which is always pleasing, isn't it? It is very pleasing, Jim. But with Chelsea, obviously Esteevale came off the bench.

31:23and added a bit of something. I honestly think that in this system with Alonso, I know that he's switched it up a bit. I wonder if at some point he's going to have to go right. We've got to have Esteveu on the left, Palmer on the right, and Rodgers down the centre and João Pedro up top, and you have your two holders. Would that be what Caicedo when there's that, maybe Lavio, or maybe even, dare I even say, Jordan Henderson's still in there. because I think with Estevelle, he's so good. I think you've got to try because I know he's, I know that front three when Joel Pedro's fit and you've got the two sort of tens, if you like, Rodgers and Palmer.

32:02But I honestly think if you're Estevelle and you're not starting that much, at some point, it gets to the end of the season, teams will be going, right, we're going to take him. Despite his age, he looks like he's, you know, he looks like a player you have to start. Yeah, exactly, exactly. He's the sort of player who needs a run of minutes as well to actually get comfortable and start producing as well. Yeah, I wonder if that is a sort of a work in progress with Alonso to see if he can try and fix that or work that in. I mean, maybe he's seen something in training, you know, that we haven't. But I just think surely he would try and do that.

32:35But there we are. I mean, looking at just a quick one before we get to Forest and Man City. I mean, it is incredible. You know, obviously Arsenal top of the league, Brighton in second, you know, then you have Man City. Well, I mean, if, you know, there is a punishment coming for Man City, you know, we have to wait and see. but if they're current guilty for her it remains then in terms of top four Liverpool I think will be there come the end of the season you'd expect Chelsea but I mean it really is like looking at one of the could dare I say could David Moyes and Everton fancy it you know hey they flirted with it they flirted with it what 20 odd years ago they did I'm just you know you know me Jim I like to get excited you love the Virg international football's coming I like to look at the table there's a lot you know we've just seen some fireworks over the weekend

33:19Jim Campbell: I mean, based on early season form, I would have been astounded to learn that Chelsea have lost four games by now. That is really, really surprising. Also, if I can take it back to Pierre Sarge, who is responsible for my favorite quote of the season so far, which was after one of the Palace's chastening defeats, he said, I have one emotion, it is about shame. My second favorite quote of the season is from Xabi Alonso. That's on Brian Brobby, which was, we worked during the week to control his power. Great stuff. Yeah, and they didn't, they did not. They did not. No one can. Nobody can. Not even him.

33:59Jim Campbell: But he sort of kicked himself over. Yeah, that's right. I mean, I suppose with Alonzo, he's very close to it because Brobby didn't score. And you're saying it should have been. It's the problems he causes. He rattles everybody. He puts everybody on edge. He does. Yeah, and you start second guessing every single thing that you do. You're always looking over your shoulder, so then you might miss somebody else's run and what have you. It causes those problems. It's just a proper presence. It's a proper presence, exactly, yeah. Much like Liam De Lappe. Nottingham Forest 3, Manchester City 1. Come on.

34:29Come on. There we go. Man City slumped to three consecutive league defeats. Maresca fell to his side, lacked intensity during the game. The kind of intensity that Liam De Lappe had, Jim, in that game.

34:43Jim Campbell: That's what we want to see. Absolutely. That was everything we've been hoping for from Liam DeLapp. I think all this talk of Kai Rooney has made him pull his socks up. Well, not literally though, of course. Yes. Yes, indeed. He was brilliant. He was everything second goal. Absolutely. That was outrageous. Outrageous. The first was a beauty. Yeah. I think underrated ball from Morgan Gibbs-White to DeLapp before he finishes that off. He's got a really small corridor to get that through to get it to DeLapp and that was brilliant. But the lapsed play before to get it to start the move. To give his wife was great.

35:15Jim Campbell: It was really exceptional stuff. That's obviously Forrest's first goals of the season at the City ground. So to get them in such a manner. And all three of them really. They are really, really just a result of direct running. Yeah, Kunja's a lovely one. With Man City not really putting much of a challenge in. The second one, sorry, the first one, Je Kunja's goal. It wasn't as bad, but it was a little bit like the goal Morgan Rodgers scored against Man United. where that corridor just stays open for far too long and he gets the shot off. But for them to concede three goals like that is really surprising.

35:45Jim Campbell: And I think Maresco is right in his assessment of their lack of intensity. But, you know, I've seen a lot of Chelsea fans saying, like, this is absolutely typical of what Chelsea were like under Maresco. Just sometimes the intensity drops off. It all looks a bit sort of pragmatic without any kind of real artistry to it or any invention to it. And, yeah, I mean, three defeats in a row is really... really surprising but does feel like a very sort of Maresca coded pattern. I, yeah, the only thing I might sort of slightly push back on with that is, like against Brighton, they're playing against one of the best sides in the league currently, and like Maresca can't put those chances away.

36:23Like Man City, you know, I find myself saying a lot on another day as you know, but they play that game again, Man City maybe don't lose. It was, it was funnily enough, it was a game where you give Brighton immense credit because they won the game at a very difficult place and a place that they've not traditionally won at, of course, or who does. But they did ride their luck at times. So I don't think that was a shocking display from Manchester City. Even in this game, Manchester City, when they get the goal... By the way, Cherki's goal was a peach. He's such a brilliant player. What I enjoyed about that is because of where the goal was in terms of they were 2-0 down, Cherki had to kind of run back and look like he was pumped.

36:59He didn't do that daft celebration where he just sort of does that pose, you know. anyway more minor point than a personal one but moving on swiftly where was I you know Man City still I don't think they played that bad it wasn't great for a side who want to go and win the Premier League title punishments aside I understand that it did lack intensity but if you look at the games that they've lost it was obviously we talked about that Brighton one again I don't think that was a poor performance from Man City it's a bad error and again like they should have really scored and in this one these games can happen.

37:34I don't think there's like any crisis or anything like that. I don't know what you think, David. I think the Interpol, I was on here a few weeks ago ahead of the Villa game and I said, I don't think that that could have a side. They've lost three games. I don't think they're that great. I thought they were lucky to win Leipzig as well. Fine, I think their early season form has sort of flattered them somewhat. Massively so. But I think this is this season. I mean, look, Arsenal, Arsenal have been winning, obviously. So I understand the point is like mute, but they've not been that inspiring. They've been that great, Arsenal.

38:00Jim Campbell: They've been effective. Sure, yeah. have been picking up points at a crazy rate. Maybe I'm being too generous with Mariska. Yeah, I think surely for Man City, after the start they've had three defeats in a row, it's pretty damning, especially when you look at the nature of some of them. Obviously, Villa are a good team, but they've had their problems this season. Brighton are, you know, the kind of like really energetic surprise package of the season, and they had a crack at them in midweek to get a feel for it. but this is a team that hasn't scored a goal at home yet this season they had 21.8 % possession now I know that's Glasgow and they want that but they executed it really really well I think like this result on top of the last two raises some questions I think that's fair I mean a lot was made in the summer of like oh City have sorted out their midfield they've revolutionised their midfield they're bringing in Anderson, Boothie you know Enzo Fernandes so they bring them in right everything's made oh they've sorted it out they're going to be great with them and everything That is the biggest problem Is the midfield Elliot Anderson I bet he didn't expect To be doing this much Right now He's playing a different role He's playing as a six He's playing as an eight He needs Bawaddy to come in there Desperately Enzo Fernandes can't play As a pivot Oh no no You wouldn't want him to as well One of the good things That Mareske did When he was at Chelsea With Enzo Fernandes Is can you play him As that left-sided eight Yes He's not doing that He's got him in a pivot And he's roaming about everywhere And poor Elliot Anderson And that's why The direct running That Forrest offered Caused him so many problems they were just straight down the throat of Anderson and he didn't, I mean, I tell you what, he did really well and I think he's been City's best player this season but he needs Boody in there because Fernandes just completely throws everything off I mean, Anderson could do everything in that midfield as we know and at Forest, you know, he was getting forward He can do everything, it doesn't mean that you have to have him doing everything and that's the problem now And I think somebody said, you know, when Rodri went to the club because they're basically trying to get him to replace Rodri in that kind of role is that Rodri, it was like Pep Guardi said you need to just stay there.

39:59You need to kind of own that territory. And Anderson's used to move it about. I mean, for England, he does that role a bit more. But then with Declan Rice next to him, kind of, it frees Anderson. He is normally that kind of number six, as we say now. They need that base player in there. Buadi, like I mentioned. Buadi needs to be in there. They sold Nico Gonzalez as well. He's the sort of just under the radar base player that they need for everybody else to perform. And like you've just mentioned about Rodri. So yeah, there's clear issues I think there. But you have to remember, Maresk is still new in the job, which is why I think I'm trying to give him a little bit of room, because he's the guy who's taken over from Pep Guardiola.

40:39And not only that, he's also managing at a very, very troublesome time. Completely unique situation, really, in the history of football. So I think with the Brighton loss and the Villa loss, again, in Jaya, he was against Villar, he's peppering the goal, didn't quite happen. So I think maybe you can say, okay, but you're right, Jim, to point that out when I was saying maybe underplaying this result. Forrest have been very poor this season in terms of in front of goal, particularly at the City ground. And to beat Manchester City 3-1 with one of their former men as well.

41:10Jim Campbell: Glasner enjoyed himself, though. Oh, that was great. Hey. Tearing down the touchline like Jose Mourinho at Old Trafford. We talk about teams being Jekyll and Hyde. I mean, Glasner was down in the dumps last week. It seemed to be like he was goading Maranakis to do something. I think that's what Maranakis wants, though, isn't it? You can't tell me he doesn't want conflict. Did you see the camera in the tunnel when he was stood there, you know, like a bouncer, and they're all coming in, and he's sort of nodding, and Glasner came in. I think they might have embraced. But Glasner running down the touchline.

41:37I mean, yeah. He didn't even do that when they won the FA Cup with Palace, did he? Maybe he did. I can't remember. I like Glasner. I have a lot of time for him, so I hope Forrest have got a lot of time for him as well. Do you have a lot of time for him? I'm interested. Do you not think he... Certainly at Palace, he didn't handle himself particularly well. How so? In terms of some of the stuff he was coming out with. Like, you can have those chats behind the...

41:58Jim Campbell: You know, with the chairman and whatnot, but... Is this one of those things that we don't want to see, that actually we really want to see? Because that's part of the appeal of Glasner for me, is that he will just pipe up. You have also reminded me who I'm talking to, Jim, so thank you. I thought he was well within his right to say it. And how's it going for PSRs, by the way, in the era of austerity of Palace? The things the Klasner complained about? Yeah, yeah. How's that going? Scored against Liverpool on the weekend. Always pleasing. I mean, I forgot it, but obviously, Eddie and Ketty and everybody else did.

42:33Hey, you've got to get the last goal of the game. Yeah, you do. It's like having the last word, isn't it?

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44:08That's go.gle slash Workspace with Gemini.

44:17But what about Forrest though? They are now up and running certainly at home in the Premier League. It was only second win in 10 games, of course. But it's a great win for them. And I want to go back to Liam DeLapp because he's... he's going to win us the World Cup

44:34Jim Campbell: are you chartering a plane for him? at some point we will no but you've got to be pleased for him I feel with De Lapp that he's one of those strikers who he's not shy in terms of a speculative effort we saw this against Villa when he scored I think it was an offside goal but that finish where he seems to love to hit it across the keeper into the roof of the net and I think that he is good for a spectacular and you know an eye-catching finish but it's those scruffy ones in the right place at the right time and you know get your tap-ins and all that I think that's that's where De Lapp's going to really kind of find his value I think he's got that in his game as well or he's certainly got the tools to kind of get it into his game he was really good against Arsenal his whole lot of play was really really good oh he's a big strong that's what I want to see for him I want to see him back to goal on the halfway line going to the channels just bringing his team up the pitch and a nuisance as well a real real nuisance when the ball is higher up the pitch so I think you know young players development isn't always linear is it and yeah a lot of players have have gone to Chelsea back themselves to succeed at a big club where there's a lot of chaos and and it's not really worked out for them and you don't necessarily hold it against them in terms of their development and I think it's really good to see De Lapp show that you know the player who got a move to Chelsea in the first place is still in there yes it's interesting he was heavily linked to Man United around that time as well.

45:57I mean, I was about to say, I don't wish he'd moved to Man United upon anyone. But you've got to think when you look at them now, what could do with somebody with a bit of presence up front? A bit of muscle. Sesko's MIA. Who knows? He's got a shin injury. Yeah, apparently. It's a big shin injury. But DeLapp could have been the sort of person who could have worked that forward line really, really well. And you do wonder sometimes you look at her and think, oh, it could actually be all right then. Bringing him Wembo into play and what have you like he's doing with Forrest.

46:22Jim Campbell: Yeah, although if he was in the Man United dressing room. Presumably half of them would think he's a dickhead for some reason. Not talk to him in the canteen or whatnot. You have to join a clique. You can't sit on our table. Thank goodness he didn't join Manchester United. But again, a reminder, we're going to be talking about strikers on tomorrow's mailbag. Among other things, so do get involved there. Before we go to the FA Cup, David, in terms of Forrest and Glasner, obviously after last week, the comments he made, if you're a Forrest fan, you're thinking, are we about to get a new manager?

46:54What's going on here. Well, after that victory, again, looking at the table where they are, I mean, do you see Forest now kind of performing in the way that perhaps we thought they would under Glasgow? I mean, it's tricky with, you know, at that club, I know, but again, this relegation battle is going to be massive down there. It's probably the shame from the international breaks arrived when it has. Yeah, because this is the sort of thing where you win that game, you get a bit of momentum and you go on a bit of six, seven game run, you really go on a bounce. So it's a shame that's right for them, but it should be.

47:24And like I said, I do rate Glasner. I think there's a lot of good players there in that Forest team. I think for them, I mean, we just talk about De Laap. Gibbs-White's excellent. Really good player. He's got those players in there. So, yeah, I think they can kick on, definitely.

47:37Jim Campbell: McAtee was really good yesterday. Yes, he was. Yes, he was. Had a good chance as well to get another goal. Yeah, indeed. All right, then. It was an FA Cup weekend, of course, in some parts of the kingdom. And there was so many near upsets as well. A lot of non-league sides, of course, the nature of it being the FA Cup first round. But we're going to start with National League Altrincham, who hosted League One Notts County, a game which went to penalties, I'm reliably informed, after it finished 2-1 because I couldn't see much of it. I don't think anybody... There were people in the ground who couldn't see that.

48:09We know there was... We had... What was it? Yellow warnings of fog throughout the land. Well, my goodness, if you needed any convincing, then just you needed to switch on this one. So yeah, I mean, before the penalty shootout or the penalty competition, as Barry Davis would call it, got underway, there was just so much dense fog. Again, you could hardly see what was going on. Goodness knows what the players were thinking. I think everyone just thought, if you see the ball, if the ball is at your feet up the other end, this is not the time for knocking the ball about. Yeah, exactly, yeah. You never know your luck.

48:42So anyway, when it went to penalties, the Notts County fans, who were at the other end of the ground, were relying on the cheers or the silence from the home fans to know whether they'd scored or not. The home fans behind the goals,

48:55Jim Campbell: obviously, had the lights on their phones on as well, which looked really, really strange. It did. And the BBC cameramen were struggling. So the next thing, you know, you're like, I can barely see penalties being taken. This is so bad. Honestly, I absolutely loved it. I'll tell you what, I say the phrase, game's gone a lot, but this gave me faith that the game... Well, a couple of the camera operators, Game's gone for them. Well, indeed. Yeah, yeah. Well, they showed a bit of ingenuity because they perched on the stand behind the goal. And we got that angle. Oh, we can see. We can actually see what's going on here.

49:30But mad that the camera operators had to go and do that. But unfortunately for upset fans, Notts County went through on penalties. So, yeah, the cameras didn't lie. They did go through. I mean, if you were just taking a penalty, you just could run away celebrating, wouldn't you? Hopefully the referee didn't see it. I'll just go on that then. But there we are. League 2 Grimsby Town went through on penalties as well at the expense of Northern Premier League Division 1 side. Northern Premier League Division 1 West side, Stafford. And Stafford, it was a bit of a nearly round for a couple of teams.

50:06We'll get to Crow Wanderers in a bit. But Stafford were 2-0 up with 15 minutes to go. And then they went 3-2 up an extra time. But they were beaten on penalties by Grimsby Town. What an effort, though. Yeah, I had to phone Vish to remind me what League Grimsby Town were in, but they're in League Two. Man United fans won't forget that. But, I mean, to put it in context, Stafford began their FA Cup campaign in August. Wow. So that's, you know, that's how long it takes to get to the first round for some sides, you know, when you're in the Northern Premier League, Division One West, of course. But sadly for them, they didn't get through to the second round of the FA Cup.

50:41I mean, it's huge that they got to the first round. Yeah, as I say, the real signal was Cray Wanderers. We'll get to them in a short while. Did you see that Robbie Savage's Peterborough were involved?

50:51Jim Campbell: Yeah. Last night I watched a TNT highlights video titled Charlie Savage Haunt Dad, which is just fantastic. What Sunday night viewing that is. Yeah. Robbie Savage's Peterborough were battered by Reading at 5-0. Robbie Savage's son Charlie playing for Reading. Doesn't start that many games, doesn't play that much for Reading other than the Cup, but he played in this one and he scored and celebrated with an East Line. Yeah, and the editor of that video, and I presume whoever was doing the cameras live, was trying to do this as well. They found a way at every opportunity to make it look like Robbie Savage was annoyed with his son more than with his own team.

51:28Jim Campbell: Obviously, he was annoyed with his team, but that's not the story that the pictures are telling. I think the director did a good job. I agree. He's convinced me that Robbie Savage hates his own son. Yeah, potentially. Maybe Charlie just used to do knee slides in the front room. There's something behind that celebration. I'd love to think so. Got told off for doing it. I tell you what, what a footballing family, though. You know, you've got to give them credit, Jim. You have to give them credit. But yes, so the Posh are out and the Reading, oh, the Royals, that's right. The Royals versus the Posh is quite a nice fixture.

51:59You think about the history of the competition. Tough Derby. Yes, indeed. Also, we need to shout out seventh tier, Winborn Town. They produced an upset. Come on. We did get an upset. They beat League Two Side Crawley 2-0. the first time they've made the second round Winborn of course or Winborn as you might call them today Southern League Premier Division South they play in and what about that goal from Xiong Yu Wang who scored a beauty past Vito Manone not bad for a property severe I'm led to believe is that what he is? yes apparently I do love Winborn they've got a load of guys in the team your Smiths, your Morgans people like very standard English names and then they've got a young Chilean up front and a South Korean in midfield.

52:46Nice. So rogue, it's brilliant. That is great. I mean, he was born in South Korea, but he grew up here, right? Yes, yeah. Because obviously, yeah, he's naturalised and I, yeah, that finish, oh, it's a beauty. I would say it's Liam De Lape-esque, I was about to say. But enjoyable to see Vito Manone in goal. But yes, I think the big story of the round, though, Wimbledon fans might not appreciate that, but Isthmian league side, Cray Wanderers, were playing League One's Stockport County, of course. And, oh, they were so close. They were so close. Cray Wanderers formed in 1816, one of the oldest clubs in the world, the oldest club still in existence in London.

53:25In their 166-year history, they'd never reached the FA Cup first round. So they'd already created history getting there. And I know you want to celebrate the fact that they gave a side far higher up the pyramid of bloody nose and a scare and all the rest of it. But I am gutted for them as well, Jim, because they lost 3-2. They were 2-0 up. Stockport went down to 10 men. And from the resulting free kick when they went down to 10 men, it is absolutely hammered into the corner. You're thinking, hello, here we go. And they lose 3-2, unfortunately.

53:59Jim Campbell: It's one of those great FA Cup fixtures at this time of year as well where it's dark at the end of the game when it's not at the beginning. And people say a lot of different things about Cray Wanderers, but I think it's worth pointing out that they never hurt their own. They always loved their mum, always really kind to their mum. Yeah, and was Tom Hardy in the away end of the home end? Well, he came here for a shootout, unfortunately. Do you know what, Jim? You're absolutely right, because it goes to extra time when you're thinking, Cray Wanderers were here for a shootout. I mean, they couldn't do it, Sam.

54:30Absolute bunch of... No, I... History makers! History makers, because they got to the first round. but unfortunately those horrible big boys of Stockport County stopped a side who would have really benefited from a financial boost it's the blue cartel in round two so producer Lauren I hope you're happy you're a Stockport County fan they never get a mention they get a mention today in disparaging terms

54:54Jim Campbell: yeah quite annoying that they get a mention as like the big boys as well I know it's pushing around these little boys Stockport County I don't know but as I say Wimborne are in the second round so all eyes on them and who knows maybe they can do a Crystal Palace and win at the Craven Cottage in the third round we should probably mention Alex Hernandez and the cracking free kicks he scored the free kicks that I mentioned I missed that you mentioned that but that was exceptional at any level at any level David Carpage yeah especially on those pitches as well and that's what I've liked about this week and like you said about the game getting dark there's just certain little elements that make the FA Cup at this stage and they were just all at the fog the floodlights you know what I mean it's great stuff brilliant absolutely brilliant I want it back yeah well you'll have it back in round two good needs to come soon as all yeah missing it already though it was just a really nice weekend of watching those games you know what you'd love the Scottish League Cup yeah yeah the final has already been we only know the teams that are in the final oh brilliant yeah yeah yeah if you can't wait till till December for a cup competition to really get going that's the one for you I think alright I'll check that out yeah yeah but you're going to have to wait till January until Sunderland turn up in the FA Cup of course because that's when the third round happens Jim that's when the third round happens but my goodness what a first round we had of the FA Cup we enjoyed it and that concludes today's football ramble thank you for listening to that thing I just said part of the Acast Creator Network it's been an absolute pleasure thank you Jim Campbell thank you thank you David Cartlidge thank you and thank you Windbourne and go on Craig Wanderers as well

56:35Football Ramble is a stack production and part of the ACAST Creator Network.

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57:28Shop Black Friday early in-store and online now at Lowe's. Valid through 12-2 while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See associate at Lowe's.com for details. Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work, around the work, and more time finding the stories worth talking about.

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