Brookside: The Reunion

0:00Must be the money everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble. Villa got a huge win and Mo Sal has been a naughty little sausage. It's Monday 8th December. I'm Luke Mo. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm Jim Campbell.

0:24Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble. It's Monday. All right, mate. Luke Moore. How you doing? Yeah. What a weekend it's been. Yeah, I was very pleased to see I was back on the show today. Friday, I have to say, before we get into it. Come on, then. Jim you did something truly disgraceful on Friday yep what was that can't narrow it down you can't think what it is yeah it could be anything wore the belt I didn't wear the belt someone wore the belt oh the the my biddy aunt belt yeah no I just just put it around myself yeah that's the same thing that's not wearing it it wasn't attached to me Jim I told you we would take humbridge with it yeah I'm just anyway welcome you listeners the arm is just bouncing off right now we haven't got any new listeners of course we do we don't want anymore we do listen It's fine as it is.

1:09Everything's fine as it is. Let me tell you something. If you've got your cutlass and your hat, climb aboard. Yeah, okay. We're going to need you. Fair enough. Pirates I'll take on. Yeah, yeah. Do pirates. That's fine. Can you pirate a podcast? Well, Jim, speaking of which, the weekend obviously started with a quite incredible evening. Well, it was morning over there in America, whatever it was, the World Cup draw I'm talking about. Yeah. FIFA put on an incredible show. I mean, that was remarkable. Everybody was honoured in the right way. we couldn't believe what we were seeing but lucky enough Jim and I were on hand to react to everything live straight after on YouTube after the draw and incredibly what's been spawned from that is a podcast I don't know how they've done it but they did so you can listen back to the full broadcast in your podcast app just find the episode below this one on your feed make sure to subscribe to the Foot Bramble on YouTube for future live streams as well link is in the show notes so Jim and I covered the whole damn thing from start to finish from awards to first round draws to reactions to what people were wearing to Gianni Amfantino looking like he was going to do stand-up.

2:12He basically did do that. All right. We are going to come back to the World Cup draw and the schedule, which was announced the day after. Later on in this podcast, Luke Moore has got his knives sharpened. He's ready to get stuck into that. I was just pleased to see us in an air-conditioned stadium for one of them. What a beauty that is. What a touch. Nothing will stop us now. But before we get to that, good stuff. Let's go all the way back to the Premier League. The cut and thrust of the Premier League. I want to start with Leeds 3, Liverpool 3. We've seen some good games between these two sides over the years.

2:46This was another one, Jim Campbell. This was an absolute classic. It's given me the quote of the season for me, which is from Anton Stack. For me, completely goosebumps. I'd be amazed if anyone tops that as a quote this weekend. It's up there with Jack Grealish, what are you scared of? Mouse. Mouse. I could just see one coming over the hill. Very specific mouth. Yeah. Yeah, it was a wonderful game. Really, really brilliant. It's kind of, it's been typical of Liverpool's season in so many ways, isn't it? Where it feels like they've kind of become a reactive team more than a team that sets the agenda.

3:18Obviously they go 2-0 up and they concede that goal. They concede again straight away. Their confidence is a sort of house of cards at the moment and we just saw it in evidence again. Even when they managed to get in front again, they're defending on that corner in like the 96th minute or whatever it was. It was hopeful rather than kind of committed. There's a sense there that they are just kind of in the wind a little bit. And it feels like a team that doesn't feel like it's in control of its own destiny. I mean, it was a great game, although the second half, much better than the first half, Luganmore.

3:50Daniel Farker, obviously very pleased with himself, said that he was going to celebrate with coffee and cake on the sofa on Sunday. He said this a few times down there. He likes his coffee and cake. He's from a part of the world where they do appreciate that kind of thing. but who doesn't appreciate a bit of coffee and cake you don't like coffee yeah I don't either so that's two of us yeah two of us I'm really two thirds of any three people I was more honing in on the cake aspect oh yeah well of course obviously we know our way around a slice of cake or two absolutely you'd be a very hard hearted person indeed to begrudge Daniel Farker his coffee and cake on Sunday after that affair when he says it in that accent though do you think is he talking about something else whenever he talks about whenever Daniel Farker talks about anything I picture him naked apart from an apron on he's just naked apart from an apron yeah and it's during the day neighbours are all welcome possibly Marigold's on as well yeah I just think it felt obviously to use up all the cliches before we even get into the show properly I think it probably almost certainly felt like a win for Leeds but you mentioned it there briefly Jim the big talking point for me is the 2-0 lead and then Ibrahima Kanate does what he does which is just it's almost unthinkable for a player of that experience and that obvious quality because we've seen him play well before and he's obviously playing for Liverpool so he's a good player there's just no need to do it there's no danger there at all is there no and there's two parts to it one is the decision he makes fine if you're being totally charitable you can say mistakes happen people have a brain fart and they get kind of a bit indecisive and then it's a penalty.

5:32But at the same time, I was watching this when Leeds scored a penalty. I'm watching it for five, ten minutes afterwards. I'm just screaming at the TV, just calm down. Just calm down. Two minutes later, Leeds score again. It's completely unthinkable and it shows you clearly just how deep the issues go at Liverpool. That's without getting into the Salah stuff, which we'll come on to a bit later. but then they get themselves back into the game with a lovely goal it's a beauty and then they get pegged back again it's really strange to watch I mean it makes for compelling and really entertaining football I mean for us from a neutral's point of view I mean Jim you've got a bit more of a stake in it than perhaps Marcus and I do but Liverpool aren't really realistically title contenders now anyway it's a very very strange situation we're watching I did think going into the game I wrote in the column that I do on Substack that I thought that if the Leeds fans who have been good this season, obviously delighted to be back in the Premier League and Ellen Roan have that history it's got and over the years, you know, Leeds have punched their weight against Liverpool in the Premier League, right?

6:38When they've been forcing it. If they can really correct that atmosphere, you can't help but feel now that Liverpool are clearly a team that can just be got at. They can be affected. They can be hurried. They can be forced into making silly mistakes. And sometimes they're not even forced into it. They just do it. Well, Jim, you mentioned a great quote there with regard to this game. Another one was Arna Slott said that Ibrahim Kanate has been a bit too much at the crime scene this season. Which I thought was quite a devastating way of putting it about one of his own players. But I mean, he is correct.

7:13When you mentioned that, I mean, Liverpool gifted a goal, really. Yeah. Gifted, obviously, Eke Tike shows good composure to finish. They get a, you know, they're handed, not handed, that's way too strong. Footed? Footed a lead? They're given that lead, really. certainly in the top flight terms. 2-0 up, as you say. When they get pegged back, I mean, what you just said about Ellen Road there and the fans, because of what they've done in the last few games, you know, you saw the Chelsea game, you see this game now. It's beginning to become, if you like, a bit of a fortress. People go, oh, I don't want to go to Ellen Road now.

7:48Their home form has been all right this season. It's why they, you know, as I say, they're doing okay. I mean, they're 16th, right? Take that all day long. So they were on the back of four losses. You thought, ooh, okay, how's this going to go? They get the win against Chelsea. They've got a very good draw, which, as you say, feels like a win. But Ellen Rode now, it only takes a couple of results to teams to go, ooh, okay. Yeah. And they approach the game a little differently. And I think you're going to start seeing that. But please, I know it's only a penalty, but still they all count. Dominic Calvert-Lewin among the goals again, but Tanaka as well.

8:22He's having a lovely time. He really is. I mean, I know he was brilliant for them last season. It's nice for a player who was so good in the championship and a big part of that campaign to then start doing it in the Premier League the following season. You know, the goal against Chelsea and then getting a very important one there. Has he been inspired by his primary teacher visiting him? The combination of that and Daniel Farker is making Leeds sort of uncomfortably adorable for me. It's not what you expect from Leeds. It's not a cap that fits them particularly well. No, it isn't. You know, I would say.

8:54but let's not dig them out because they've been oh it's not a dig they've had a lovely time of it the volume on that third goal for them was just magnificent oh yeah yeah absolutely the crowd the crowd was was incredible you know you have to say that and I think you know the scenes when Tanaka scores is great but you know from Liverpool's point of view it's it's it'll be really interesting to see what comes out of all this after it all settles down and maybe whatever decisions are made are made and they move on to a new era however that whatever that looks like and what's happening here. Because I do think there's been an exacerbation of the issues by Slott and some of his team selections.

9:31He does say some quite odd stuff. I keep saying this because I don't think anyone else is really saying it. And I think it's a really important part of this story, which is that he's not as experienced at the top levels of coach as people assume he is. People think he come in with a great reputation. Fair enough. He wins the league in his first season. Fair enough. He's never dealt with a crisis at a top club before. and so it's not automatic that because he's got quite a calm demeanour and he's quite softly spoken that he's automatically going to be able to navigate through this this could be an absolute shit show on the inside we don't know and the whole thing has become quite a heady brew now now it is worth saying that going against my usual refrain about not talking about the Premier League table at this time of the year which I don't really like doing I think it's particularly relevant at this point to say though that because the table is so close at the moment they're only a win away from top four and when I've spoken to Liverpool fans I know they've said look you know we were delighted to win the Premier League last season I think a top four finish this season would be great given the start we've had given the problems we've had given the Diogo Jota thing given you know what's now transpiring from Mo Salah top four will be fine also under Klopp see they went the distance a lot of times but there was the season here they came third and fifth in his last couple of seasons so so it's not it doesn't weirdly enough for all the column inches and all the coverage that people like us are giving it, it isn't actually disastrous in terms of points tallies at the moment because they're within shooting distance or spitting distance of top four still.

11:01As are Tottenham Hotspur. That's what I'm saying. That's the nature of the table at the moment, right? As are Manchester United. Yeah, no, no, I get you. I'm just backing up your point. Yeah, so I think it will be interesting to see what transpires. The only issue is that even when they kind of turn things around or you feel like they're turning things around, it does feel a bit like, because for example, they go and beat West Ham fairly easily away from home, right? And then they are bad against Sunderland and bad in their own way against Leeds. And a similar thing happened, you know, they go and smash on track Frankfurt in the Champions League.

11:34But you're going back a few... Sure, but I'm just saying there's a history here now. Since they started badly wobbling, which is basically around the end of September, even when those green shoots start to come through, they immediately get yanked back again. it's happened two or three times but when you say they're bad against Leeds and Sunderland I agree totally they didn't lose either game though and obviously against Sunderland against Leeds it was only just there so Liverpool being bad is not the same as other clubs being bad because they're so good you see what I mean so that's why they find themselves in a position with the points teller that they do yeah any draw feels like a disaster well again it's the manner of it isn't it it's a little bit like Manchester City last season I think different reasons and I don't think they're the same but look we're skirting around the Mo Salah stuff at the moment really let's go for that he didn't start for the third game in a row and I think that Slot taking him out the side it's always going to be a talking point because Mo Salah's one of the greatest players in Liverpool's history he's not been playing well but a lot of players haven't been playing well Ibrahim Akarnate I think a lot of people say why has he not been taken out the side well there are fewer options there though because they've got no one else indeed yeah could play a youth team player well I could play Joe Gomez in there Again, Gomez isn't a bad player.

12:49I don't think he's the reason why they're not playing him. I mean, Canate absolutely is the other player you would think needs some time on the bench. Yeah, and look, he's put Isak on the bench, big money signing. I know, of course, he's just not been at the club very long and Salah is a Liverpool legend, etc. and so on. But it was quite extraordinary, really, after the game when Salah goes into the mix zone and did a seven and a half minute interview with a group of journalists. I mean, you saw the reactions of the Liverpool press officer behind him was a bit like, oh, I don't really know what to do with myself.

13:20And he throttens with sleep. That's the highlight of it, that. That was the highlight of the whole thing, him in the background. Yeah, it was incredible. I'd love to know, I'd love to get, sorry to cut in, but I'd love to hear, if anyone listens to this who is a press officer at any level of sport, I'd love to hear what the protocol is. Because to me, it felt like after a wee while, don't get me wrong, I found that absolutely compelling. Of course. After a wee while, I was thinking, you could do worse than just yank him here. Yeah. Just yank him away. Yes, yeah. I mean, you probably might lose your job or something.

13:45I reckon, though, if it's at home, you could just go ring the fire alarm. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. There's got to be some sort of buzzer. But they weren't there. And as well, though, once he's three minutes into it, what do you do, yank him? It makes the story way worse. Yeah, absolutely. You just got to hope. I hope he just goes on for another... Oh, he's still going. Oh, seven and a half minutes we're up to. But you could at least make yourself the story for five minutes. Like, you see it in political interviews quite a lot. Yeah. You see, like, I don't know, like Farage or whatever be interviewed sitting down in some news night capacity and you'll hear a press office from off camera say oh we said we weren't talking about that and cuts in and then almost like derails him possibly he could do that maybe but I think Salah at that point much like Salah in his pomp in front of goal he wouldn't be denied so they need to distract with nonsense so what you're saying is Liverpool need to have Boris Johnson as the press officer just start going I'm not sure how popular that would be whip his shorts down yes debag him then that becomes the story.

14:42True. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. And then when Salah complains about that, I was doing that for you. Yeah, okay. So there's some options there for Liverpool. Or they could say we're relaunching Brookside and this is just an example of some of the sort of fun you have on a soap opera and then just never mention it when Brookside never comes out again. I have to say, if I thought there was going to be a mention of Brookside from anyone on this show today, it would have come from that end of the desk. I've never watched an episode. I'd forgotten it existed and when Jim said it, set in Liverpool when I say cancelled I mean in the old fashioned sense by the way went all through the 90s yeah so Marcus's remit no there's some things in the 90s that I would shun and Brookside would be one of them cancelled in 2003 anyway I need to say some of the quotes here you sure you don't want more on Brookside for Jim no I don't I don't really know much more what do the listeners want think about that and then carry on alright fair enough well Jim we'll do a separate podcast about Brookside because I think that will prove to be very popular but Salah said I think it's very clear that somebody wants me to take all the blame.

15:43I've said a few times before that I had a good relationship with the manager. Oh, so it's the manager. And all of a sudden, we don't have any relationship. It seems like the club has thrown me under the bus. That's how I'm feeling. I think it is very clear that someone wanted me to get all of the blame. I don't think I'm the problem. I have done so much for this club. I don't have to fight every day for my position because I earn it. I earned my position. He also called out Jamie Carragher. He said he receives different treatment to other Premier League legends, such as Harry Kane. Now, this was extraordinary, this rant, really, that he went on.

16:16Every word of it. Every word of it, Jim. You're right. We've taken those quotes. We could have quoted him on other things. We could have done the whole seven and a half minutes. We don't want to bore you with that. I was talking about this with a friend of mine who's a big Man City fan, and he just said, could you imagine Kevin De Bruyne saying that when De Bruyne was put on the bench? And that was what put it into real context. He said, imagine when Sergio Aguero was put on the bench for Man City. De Bruyne is quite moody. Mood is one thing Yeah You don't want a player Oh cool I'm on the bench today Yeah that's fine You know I'm just using Those as examples This is Can you imagine Cristiano Ronaldo doing it I can Not Seven and a half Yeah seven and a half minutes Maybe not No but Jim At least he would Do it the right way He would get a slot On Piers Morgan's Exactly He'd get a nice suit on There's a protocol for this And that's the worst thing about it Piers Morgan will be Fuming with Salah about this Let them get the lighting right?

17:11Okay, so we're all ready for the bombshells and also you can talk about other stuff in his career. But I mean, Luke, what did you think of this? I thought it was, I thought, there's a couple of things I would say. One is that I thought it was clearly throwing quite a lot of fuel on an already roaring fire and I thought it was clearly very unhelpful. The caveat would be that I don't really know obviously what's going on behind the scenes. That if he had, there's a small chance, I suppose, because it's technically possible that he has been treated badly by the manager or the manager's decided that he doesn't want him anymore or someone has been disrespectful to him.

17:45I think that's a very, very small chance. I think he's made it all about himself. I think the reality is he hasn't been playing well enough and Liverpool have far more attacking options than they do centre-back options. And so the Canate comparison, as you've already said, isn't really relevant. And I don't think it's relevant anyway because it's a completely different part of the pitch, a different profile of player too. The second thing I would just say is that the really disappointing thing for me would be if I was a Liverpool fan, would be, look, you're a senior pro at the club. Virgil van Dijk's already said a couple of weeks ago, you know, something about Salah stepping up and all players, you know, we know what they can bring and we know the leadership they can offer.

18:22And van Dijk, to his credit, has always fronted up. He's not made it about himself. He's kind of had a little chip off at Rooney about some... But did it in front of his face. Yeah, exactly. But clearly van Dijk was going about a certain way. Statesman-like. The disappointing thing from Salah here, I think, is that he could really put himself to one side and put the team ahead of himself and say, okay, what does the team need most? Clearly, it doesn't need this. Clearly, this makes the whole thing worse, turns it into a sideshow. Also, the thing is, a week today, Salah goes to Afcon anyway. And so that's also a factor which makes it quite odd in terms of timing.

19:00I would just say that you've got an opportunity there as a leader and a senior pro in that dressing room to actually bring people together and if you decide to put it to one side because you want to talk about the fact that you've not started for three games you haven't been playing well enough it's as simple as that it's not as though it's not as though Slott has said I know you've scored three in your last three but we've got a different challenge here at Ellen Road and we want to play a slightly different way and so I I'm not going to play you today and that's that's probably a little bit different but then the other thing that Salah says off the back of that which kind of gives gives kind of light to that is that he says you said it yourself here I don't have to fight every day for my position because I earned it I earned my position it's bullshit that's the worst that's not how top flight football works you've got to fight for your position every single day no one's guaranteed to start bearing in mind before the times he's been dropped here he started something like 53 games in a row for Liverpool so it's not as though he's been treated badly generally to me it feels very unlikely that Slott who's picked him every single time has suddenly just decided that I don't like you very much so you're going to be the sacrificial lamb here.

20:08The performance hasn't been good enough. Before I bring you in to him, one final thing I would just say is that when he got dropped the first time, no one said a thing. No Liverpool fans that I saw were up in arms about it. They were probably like, he'll get you a goal, he can pull something out of nowhere, he's been a great player for us. But no one was like, I can't believe that's happened. And certainly no non-Liverpool fan. I was crying out for it. I said on the show, he has to take some time at the side because they can't get a blend together. There were loads of examples of him not tracking back and all those things that eventually have clearly led to him being dropped.

20:41And I think what's really interesting about it for me is the way he's talking about it, as if he's been put forward, as he keeps saying, sort of thrown under the bus, the kind of sacrificial lamb element of it. And I just don't think that's actually true. And I think it's very interesting to see that he appears to be talking essentially entirely from the ego. It feels like his pride has been bruised. so he's gone about this in essentially a really emotionally immature way. All of this stuff should have been kept in house, even if people would like chucking teacups at each other and even if it was really, really kind of volatile, that should have been kept in house because as you've suggested already, Luke, they're in a really, really tricky spot at the moment, especially with the kind of noise around and the publicity on them, which is perhaps a bit more overblown than is fair given the league position as we've spoken about before.

21:29But this just doesn't help that at all, does it? and I think it's kind of fragile ego masquerading as victimhood. He says a lot of things in there about how his kids will always support Liverpool and all this stuff where he's sort of constantly dedicating himself to the club while also damaging it at the same time and it just feels like it's really, really self-centred. I think if you love the club as much as you say you do, I don't think you'd have done that and I do think that it's worth saying that he was ridiculous last season. Like, incredibly awesome. To the point where, at the age he is, he was given a 400 grand a week contract in April, right?

22:10Now, you could say that maybe Liverpool were doing that with half an arm protecting themselves for wherever he goes next. The Saudi move's going to be big money. That works out for them. But you don't just chuck around that kind of money for a player that age. You don't think they're going to be great. He's clearly been supported financially. He's played a lot. And he's done well. The problem is, you haven't got to be an amazing tactical expert, which I don't consider myself to be, to see how out of it he's been regularly this season. He's not been a part of it. He's not tracked. He's not defended.

22:40It's totally legitimate for football reasons that he's been dropped. The thing is, though, that he clearly doesn't accept that, does he? Well, he wasn't doing that last season, to be fair, but the tactics were different last season. And I think that when you have to batten down the hatches a little bit, you're going through a tricky period. I mean, he's very rarely spoken with journalists after the game. He's done a few times in his entire Liverpool career. obviously before this in April 2024 he spoke about if I speak there will be fire because he got dropped against West Ham under Jurgen Klopp he spoke last November he said he was disappointed he had not been offered a new contract by the club and he was probably more out than in so in recent years it's always been when he's had a bit of a grumble or something when he's spoken to the press and that's fine, some players don't want to speak to the press I'm not necessarily criticising for that.

23:30But it was interesting when he mentioned Jamie Carragher because Carragher had said, Salah needs to come out and say something about this Liverpool team. Now, some people say, well, what's the point of that? Because Virgil van Dijk has been doing that as the captain and the type of man he is. You expect that from him. And I think fans probably would like that for somebody to say something. That hasn't really translated to improved performances on the pitch. But, you know, I think people like a voice. And Carragher's saying, come on, Salah, you know, you're one of those players. And that's why Salah says, well, hang on a minute.

24:01I'm, you know, Carragher, you know, dug me out and so on. And I think if he'd have come, if he'd have said, look, yeah, I'm disappointed. I want to start games. I feel like I am the type of player that can have an impact and I can always do something. I think I've proved that at the club. But right now we're in a tricky situation. The team is struggling. I really want to help the team and been a bit more sort of typically politician like about it. He could have said, yeah, I'm gutted to be on the bench. and then said things that would suggest he was putting the team ahead of him. Because that's fine.

24:31You know he's not going to be happy with being on the bench. Who would be? And so I think, again, being a little bit more aware of the bigger picture, his surroundings. But as you say, Luke, he's made it all about himself. He's just lashing out, isn't he? He's lashing out. And this is not like he hasn't played for three months or something. It's been a few games. I mean, he's had a reasonable amount of game time to do something this season. But Salah, I think, and we were talking about this the other week, is he personally struggling with the fact that Liverpool have now got a sort of new-ish attacking line-up and he's going to have to make do.

25:04I mean, I did find it funny when Arnaz Slott was asked about Alexander-Isak's struggles and he said, it's obviously clear that we do not have the profile of a player like Jacob Murphy. We called that. I forget who it was. I couldn't believe he said that. We said it joking around. Even Pompey got his twin brother. Yeah. I mean, maybe Salah's thinking, he plays on the right wing. Are you taking the piss? It's a shame Mila Mandaric isn't around or you may not agree because he would have he would absolutely have got on that yeah we've got jacob buffett just like him he's just like him he's just like him yeah so so so i think that that as you say the ego is hurting and and and so on but yeah i and it's not even like he's just said a throwaway line seven and a half minute rant when he was there he knows what he's doing yeah he's been around you could tell he was just lashing out because even the harry kane thing he said what he said actually isn't true anyway yeah so he said harry kane went 10 games without scoring everyone said he'd come back with me they say I should be benched I mean Opta have refuted that entirely Harry Kane has never gone more than six top flight starts in a row without scoring and also the context is super important on this yeah Harry Kane wasn't the age that Salah is Harry Kane was playing for Spurs when presumably Salah is referencing the times when Kane would have a slow start to the season and there was a big thing about him not scoring in August yes right Harry Kane was playing for Spurs yeah respectfully they weren't the round champions and the expectation wasn't anywhere near as high.

26:22And secondly, Spurs hadn't signed something like£300 million worth of forward talent at the same time. So the whole thing is just, as Jim's already said, it's emotionally led. It's from ego. There's probably lots of things going on here. I would just like to bookend it by saying we obviously don't know if Slott has balled up and spoken to Salah in a way that has really isolated him or or feels like he's not been managed properly, which is possible given Slott's lack of experience. Marcus, I think it's a very, very slim possibility, but we're not working with all the facts. Okay, so it's good to caveat it.

26:58And there was a journalist yesterday, I saw very late on yesterday, who was suggesting, I just tried to find it, but I couldn't, so maybe he's just deleted it and it was nonsense. But I did definitely see a journalist yesterday saying, there's talk that some of the players are on Salad's side rather than Salad's side aren't very happy with how things are going and they don't know if slots the guy to take them forward. Just putting it out there for balance. And I think that's a fair question and that's fine but again the way Sal has handled himself it's an in-house conversation isn't it? It just needs to be.

27:29Saying I've said what I've said for balance I think also he's been a fucking idiot. My personal view is that Sal has been a fucking idiot. It'll be interesting to see in the coming days how it happens because he's going to be gone on the week and he may never play for the club again. And that would be really sad for everybody concerned. For what he's achieved I mean incredibly sad really sad if that was the case so maybe he's dropping a bomb before he leaves and goes off to AFCON and thinking well by the time I come back maybe we might have a new manager yeah could be doing it it's a funny old game Jim isn't it you never know and much like Brookside the drama never ends in the Premier League and much like Brookside we have an ad break yeah true but obviously the drama did end in 2003 the Premier League carries on by God rest it coming up after this Arsenal's title chase takes a knock

28:23Hey, Rio, do you ever get to score on him? Pardon? What type of question is that, Danny? I'm a defender. Oh, I know. But you come up for headers all the time. Yeah, but listen. See what I'm saying? Okay, guys, guys. Professional. What are you trying to do out here? I mean, look. What about the football animal, everybody? It's hard to listen to. That was Daniel Ramirez going off script with Rio Ferdinand during Friday's World Cup draw. And Rio, I would say to try and defend him, in a jokey way was trying to question it. But Jim's shaking his head. It's just so bad, Marcus. You can't defend it, Marcus.

28:59Unlike Rio, you can't defend it. Stay tuned for us not defending it in about 15 minutes' time. I think he was trying to be funny because that seemed to be the running theme. Marcus will come to it later. Yeah, exactly. Well, thanks to Friend of the Ramble, Andrew, for sending us that clip. You can become a Friend of the Ramble too. Search patreon.com forward slash football ramble or click that Join button on YouTube to get involved. Right, Aston Villa 2, Arsenal 1. Yeah, I was absolutely fuming with Salah because as soon as this result happened, I was like, I can't wait. I was thrilled. I was delighted.

29:27And now it's been bumped off the top. I will say, the alarm bells are not ringing yet, but I've checked the batteries and everything's in working order. Yeah. You're not quite alarm bells ringing, but you can see the alarm bells from here. Yeah. Yeah. Aston Villa three points off the top are they on the verge of a famous title a bit early to look at the table isn't it yeah Jim that's it get involved get involved well I'll tell you what we were speaking about this on Friday we said it was a very tricky game for Arsenal to say the least because it's always a tough place to go but Villa are in the ascendancy they've been amazing at Villa Park they've been superb and you said Jim lost one in 33 or something like that how about that you said that Unai Emery has often got the better of Niquel Arteta and so it proved Villa were great in this game?

30:10They were. They were really, really excellent. It was a fantastic game I couldn't really enjoy a second of. The second half in particular was an electric game, just kind of back and forth. I think it was kind of fairly even over the whole game generally, but I think Villa had the slightly better chances and it felt to me like there was always a winner in it, even really late on, even in the last minute as proved to be. And I think Arsenal themselves sensed that and were pushing for it, which obviously led to the back and forth end-to-end game that gives you that late winner. But they're just so kind of impressively direct when they need to beat Villa.

30:47And they work really hard. Arsenal like to slow games down and control them and just kind of set the pace and set the agenda. And Villa just don't let you do that. They've just got so much energy and they've got a lot of powerful players and they can hurt you in a lot of different ways. We've spoken about the shots from distance that they've been taking and how effective that's been for them. But that's just one of the tools that they have. and they didn't really kind of utilise that at the weekend because Arsenal are very good at shutting those kind of attacks down and yeah I mean obviously they're without Gabriel and Saliba but I don't want to kind of lean on that too much because It's a factor It is a factor but I mean I think it's massive He's a good player as well and Timber's a very experienced centre-back so obviously they're going to be better with Saliba and Gabriel but that's still a decent kind of decent back four that's put out there and it was a really really good game but yeah it was sort of different to a lot of meetings between Arsenal and Villa that have happened in recent years as well because they've tended to be a little bit more cagey and have actually involved Emery being the one who's kind of set the agenda a little bit and controlled the game.

31:50Whereas this, it did feel a bit more like a basketball match. Yeah. I mean, the first goal from Cash was, you know, he must be gutted he's Polish now, the form he's in. I don't know how handsome he is. Yeah, very handsome. Are you not, Jim? We're all in this England boat together. Yeah, but no one more so than you you're very much the captain of that boat you're either on board or you're not yeah yeah but I mean the captain is I'm more of a loaded stowaway Jim's the cabin boy I'm just saying that we've all got a vested interest in getting to where we're going Jim yeah we have yes fine obviously I've got the captain Jim can you just accept that so we can move on I'm confident I have and yet we're still here right okay well yeah I mean Eze obviously sort of switches off for that moment and then Cash gets in I mean when Trossard equalised you would think okay here go Arsenal but again Villa yeah because Arsenal were really in control when they got that equaliser and then it flipped entirely never as a man who looked more ill scored more important goals oh yeah he looks absolutely dreadful evil prince he looks very he needs to go to the coast for some fresh air for his nerves maybe he's been away from Brighton for too long yeah maybe he has probably how he ended up there in the first place I thought it was massive that Eze switched off for that goal by the way I thought it was kind of quite indicative of the poor game that Califuri had as well because I didn't think he was great but he wasn't in the position he gets dragged into this more central area, doesn't he?

33:07And then Eze, who's got, understandably, got no defensive-minded kind of idea at all, just doesn't know Cash is there. You've got to be switched onto that, though. I mean, Gabriel Martinelli, his defensive work is really, really strong and really good and that's a big advantage of having him there and that's often the case with Trossard, it's all in a slightly different way. But yeah, you can see he realises, doesn't he, like far too late that he should be on it. And I think, given Villa's record at home, you go a goal down like that, you know, God, it's going to be really tough. And I do think that not having Saliba and Gabriel is big, just chiefly because I get the impression from the outside looking in that with their threat, the platform they give Arsenal were not just that, the threat from set pieces and stuff, which has been talked about a lot.

33:51And I know Arsenal are fully capable of scoring goals outside the set pieces. I get all that. I'm not trying to tire them with that brush. But I do think there's a confidence thing with them as a team which says that, oh, we know that we could always just get Paul Sank out of nowhere with buying them in the team. that Gabriel's an absolute phenomenon in both penalty areas I'm not saying that Hincapié isn't good and I'm not saying that Timber isn't good they are clearly good he is and I think that's a big factor for them and I think it affects them I also think this might be a bit more controversial and Jim feel free to shout me down here I also think that Zubamendi struggles with games that are played at really fast pace at really fast Premier League pace I think he's still adapting Chelsea game was the same yeah the thing with Zubamendi the Spurs game weirdly he was a bit anonymous as well.

34:34No, I think he, if I'm right and remember, I could be wrong on this because I don't have the stats in front of me. I think he might have had the most touches in that game, but he is one of those players where you don't really always notice what he's doing precisely because a lot of his touches are one touch like quick forward passes. You don't always notice it. Maybe I'm just remembering the Spurs game, but the Chelsea game, it felt like it passed him by. It was so quick. Yeah, I mean, it's still adapting to the program. I think broadly, I've been happy with Zubomendi, but there are certainly times where he can be, got out a bit under pressure very quickly and part of that is probably his frame I would say.

35:08Another massive issue that I think is going to become a talking point sooner rather than later if it hasn't already is Victor Jokeres. Now he only played a half and he only came on for kind of in the second half against Chelsea and he held up the ball in the build up to Trossard's goal but he I think he had 11 touches in the game. He was dispossessed quite a lot and if you're in a game like that if your striker isn't really doing a lot. You want them to at least hold the ball up and he wasn't fantastic at that. There was a nuisance value or something. Yeah, absolutely. There was a point late on where Declan Rice flashed the ball across the goal.

35:41Madueke ends up getting onto it but he's on his wrong foot and he puts it wide. But Jokorrez is nowhere near it and like that, he's your centre forward, you know, he's your 60 million plus pound centre forward late in the game, a ball getting flashed across the box. Like, where are you if not there? Yeah, exactly. It was just like, it was a game of anybody obviously because, you know, again, are they going to adapt to the league? And I think Jocares was, if you look around sort of premium strikers, there wasn't many. Oh yeah, the market wasn't great. Totally, and it hasn't been for a while with that regard.

36:09But Jocares, you know, there was that chat, wasn't it, that another club, you know, rumoured to be Liverpool, were looking at him and thought he just takes slightly too long to get shots away and that kind of thing. But I mean, look, again, Jocares is a funny one because he's come into a side and a fan base and a manager who are ready to win the title. Let's be clear, right? They are ready and they're in pole position still and I still really, really fancy them to do it. He's then got to get up to that level. He's got to get up to that level where we can win the Champions League or certainly go very, very deep in the competition.

36:40They're one of the favourites for the Champions League. We can win the Premier League. Obviously, what he did at Sporting was very impressive. They were in the Champions League and so on. This is a huge step up. Massively. So again, him trying to kind of adapt to that, he's got to hit the ground running and he's shown flashes in little bits and pieces. but I do think that it might be moving just that little bit too quickly for him well this is it yeah and I mean the Premier League is faster than it's ever been Michael Cox wrote a really interesting piece on this a little while ago about how he thinks that that's down to the five subs rule where essentially because you can change half the outfield team the pace is essentially breakneck the whole time the players that don't change obviously have to keep up with that and then that leads to more injuries etc sort of slightly separate point from that but it does mean the pace just is you're no longer in a situation where you're facing an entirely tired team right and Jokeres kind of thrives in those situations I would say and I mean I'm trying to hold off judgement because it is you know we're still only in December of his first season here he scored five goals so you know it's not nothing but I think Kai Havertz is going to like just ride back into the first team on one of his many donkeys Christmas morning Jim yes Mikel Arteta who's been a very good boy this year comes downstairs looks under the tree and there's a beautifully wrapped Kai Havertz and let's not forget that the day is all about Jesus who will also be available there we go as well yeah when he unwraps Kai Havertz he says you should be wearing some clothes onto that Christmas wrapping and also why aren't you with your family yeah well he's dedicated to the job Jim he's been out for so long he feels like he owes it to Mikel Arteta and his family well I mean but Arsenal do I mean he's saying that Mikel Marino looks better up top well I mean some of the more fluent attacking performances of Arsenal this season they've been with Mourinho up front.

38:25So, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's undeniable really, isn't it? I feel like Arteta loves Havertz, doesn't he? Yeah. I think he's going to, as soon as he's ready, he's going to be in there. But the interesting thing though, isn't it? It's like the striker is still the issue at Arsenal. It feels like one of these kind of churches. It could just be something about how they, just how it's something about the way they play. Well, I mean, they've recalibrated to sort of suit Jocarez's strengths. They play way more through balls than they did last season. That's a really sort of common thing now. and sometimes you see them, they seem like a really bad choice when one's over hit or it doesn't seem like something's on and someone doesn't make the run.

38:56But you can see they're always geared for that and that should in theory suit Yoccheri. So if they can get that to click, you know, maybe that's what's missing. So only two wins in the last five league games for Arsenal, which the away form is a big problem within that as well. Yeah, they haven't won any of their last three away from home. And it's, I mean, you know, bearing in mind that Arsenal, you couldn't even get a shot against them from a start. That was always going to come to an end at some point, of course. Conceding first a lot as well at the moment as well. Yes, exactly, yeah. I just, I mean, Odegaard coming back in the side, Eze going out on the left.

39:28Okay, fine. I mean, again, these very small sample sizes we're using. The side did look good with Eze in there, but I mean, again, what Odegaard's done, you're obviously going to bring him back in. Yeah, and I thought he had a good game. Like, there's been mixed reaction to his performance, again, partly due to the pace of how he plays. Yeah, I think one thing that is clear so far this season, even though it's early days, Luke, is that we've got a Premier League back. No, but we've got a proper title. Yeah, yeah. There's something here. Yeah, but I was going to ask you about that because I feel like we should talk about Villa at some point because they won the game.

40:01And for all the chat about Arsenal doing this and doing that, it's the first game Arsenal have lost since August. So, I mean, let's not get overwhelmed here. But my point is, I think, again, the perfect seasons that we've been conditioned to, I don't think that's going to happen this season. And it's good. I slightly depart from the title race chat. chiefly because I think I want to see more evidence that Aston Villa and Man City are reliable enough are two reliable enough teams to push Arsenal. And I think Aston Villa have been in great form. Their home form has been incredible under Emery. They've made that place a total fortress.

40:36Like I say, I can't remember the exact stat but it's something like one loss in 33 at home. It's crazy. If you bear in mind they only played 19 home games. It's essentially the best part of two seasons now in the league I mean. But I don't know if we've got enough evidence to suggest they can tilt at the title, just chiefly because they haven't done that before for a long, long time. Man City, as I said, I think are a bit underrated. I think you've got to look at the amount of goals Man City are scoring. Yeah, it's spreading them out now as well. They're not conceding a massive amount, but they are conceding more than Arsenal.

41:08To me, it's less about Arsenal, who I think will reach a level. Arsenal will reach a standard. Their floor is pretty high. They'll reach a standard of X amount of points. regardless I think and it comes down to whether they'll need to go that extra mile or not and I suspect they might not need to I would agree with you because I think it was a week and a half ago actually maybe two weeks ago we were talking about Chelsea looking like the second best team in the league and since then they've found themselves eight points off and then down in fifth and you think okay well what's going to happen to them now because they've not won their last three right so it's very early still I suspect if Arsenal win the league this season and this is not going to win me any favours with Arsenal fans, but hopefully you know what I mean here.

41:51If Arsenal win the league this season, it will, of course, be about them, but it'll also be about a lack of competitors, a lack of the timing of it, if you know what I mean. I do agree. Yeah, of course you would. And they've bided their time for seasons and seasons. They've been second for ages. Yeah, and this is the time. I mean, you're right to highlight those clubs because, you know, Chelsea down in fifth now, they're eight points off Arsenal. And I think that, again, Chelsea fans, or certainly the ones I was sort of hearing, were very, very coy and very, very slow to talk about any title talk.

42:20Because again, to get yourself in a mindset of challenging for the title, it's very difficult. Because let's face it, Villa go on a run of five games, winning five games, suddenly they're three points off the top. Are they suddenly going to go, right, we're on for the title? You've got to really, I know there's Leicester City example and so on, but you've really got to have realistic ambitions at the start of the season. It's got to go all throughout it. I think the only side really that would catch Arsenal are Manchester City. Yeah, well, I was going to come in on exactly that point because they are a team who have done that so many times and they have, more importantly, a manager who knows how to gear a team to do that.

42:55And they are so capable. We've been saying it all season and I know that's boring, but it just is the case. They are so capable of putting on these kind of monstrous, very long winning runs, keeping pressure up. And the challenge now is for Arsenal is to kind of keep that two-point lead intact for as long as they can to then hope that City go and drop some points and they need to find some form. Got Wolves at home next, which they need to be looking at as a confidence-restoring win, obviously. But yeah, it's about staying the course now. City have also got players who you just take for granted and who have just got the ability to completely dominate.

43:32I know Foden had a quiet season last season. Oh, he's in great form at the moment. The season before that, he was player of the year. That's how good he was. And now he's starting to show signs of hitting form. all I would say in Villa's favour about I don't know if they can win the league but in their favour I think Emery definitely flourishes when he's at a team who like backs himself a bit of an underdog an unfancied underdog and that is really what Villa would be in this context so that might work in their favour Pep Guardiola he's started the mind games he says well I think Arsenal will drop a few points as they go so he's ready to bounce I mean Sydney have scored the most goals in the league this season they've got an impressive tally and have not conceded that many.

44:12They've conceded 16. The most bizarre stat of the season so far for me, which I've just realised is Fulham have scored a quarter of the goals that Man City have conceded. And still lost. And yeah, indeed, indeed. And they got beat by Palace on the weekend as well. Before we, Ryan Cherky's Rabona assist, which we all love, Pep Guardiello did like it. What did he say? He was saying, I've never seen Messi do anything like this. You've got to do the simple things well. Yeah, obviously if it doesn't come off then he's in trouble. Well, he said because it did it's fine but if it doesn't then I hate it which is a clear message isn't it it's funny because that is absolutely fair that's going to make Cherky more efficient although I suppose he buys himself time with the Rabona there it's perfectly executed but we do want to see that it was proper stop hitting yourself stuff against the left back over and over again he was the brilliant player and I think the point from that from Guardiola is probably that we know the type of player Cherky is and the type of player he wants to be and I think if you cross over into the if you go too far with being that type of player you do become yeah you become inefficient you become less team orientated which of course Gualio doesn't want so it's just a wall shot across the bow isn't it I think if it's if you're 5-0 up and he does it in the last minute you can come and forgive it I understand there were 2-0 up but there was still they had won the game yeah they had won the game well it's Sunderland you're talking about though I know Sunderland weren't able to deal with them and that's the thing with City there's again talking about ceilings and floors and everything like that City are capable of a lot absolutely capable of a lot including conceding four goals to Fulham they're capable but they're capable of winning the league and not being at their best would you agree with that I'm not sure this season no I would agree with that you're a hater though now it's because he backed Arsenal middle of last season no middle of last season he became a bit of a hater I said it's not quite there yeah we'll see we certainly will alright everybody coming up after this it's time to talk about the World Cup draw again

46:19Right then, let's talk about FIFA and the World Cup and the schedule that has been revealed. Before we do that, though, I want to get some thoughts that Thomas Tuchel gave us when asked if he liked how glamorous the draw was on Friday. I do not like it, but we could have done it And also, without all of this, I don't need it. But of course, it's a huge stage and it's big entertainment. I was very well aware that it's not about the deep inside of football today. It was about the presentation. It was about the entertainment. He thought it was a waste of time, is what he's saying there. Norway manager Stal Solbachen was more forthright and asked about the Peace Prize.

47:05He said it was a freak show, to be honest. I like that. Jim and I did a podcast about this, obviously, straight off the back. I bloody enjoyed it. I enjoyed the YouTube live stream. Thank you. Thank you very much. We haven't heard your, well, I mean, we have on our WhatsApp group, but the listeners haven't heard your views. You, of course. I think they can probably guess them. Well, it's funny because Jim and I, obviously, we thought the Peace Prize was a load of bollocks. We thought Infantino was, again, the levels of prattiness were unprecedented. Yeah. All the rest of it. But you've got a different take.

47:37Well, no. yeah yeah yeah they've got to me yeah they have got to me who do you think who was more deserving of the Peace Prize we never let's start with that we never thought we'd be hankering after Blatter I am on record as saying bring Blatter back and I mean it I mean he's on record as well as saying he wants to come back I can't believe 89 89 years young yeah yeah but you know one last shot of the big time so he's got what another 30 years Is Yael Havelange died over 100, I think? Yeah, over 100. He wasn't working, but he was over 100. You're always working. Do you know what? I took issue with the question that Thomas Tuchel received, even, because I didn't think it was glamorous at all.

48:16No. I thought it was like a weird, replicant, cyborg version of what people think glamorous is. Yeah. And it aimed for glamorous, but I think it achieved... Deranged propaganda? Deranged, dystopian, actually quite bleak, geopolitical soup that really had no place anywhere near what is essentially a draw for a football tournament. I understand it would be the biggest football tournament in the world. We know all that. We understand what the World Cup represents. But it's almost like it would have been grown in a lab and it had mutated into something that truly, actually quite disgraceful and distasteful.

48:57Yeah, totally. I found it quite hard to actually keep it on. I forced myself to watch through it. And I'm not just talking about the sports washing element of the Peace Prize, which, you know... It's beyond words. Yeah, and you don't want to bore people to death with that. Clearly, that is a scandal. It is a disgrace. And the fact that, you know, the image of Donald Trump putting a medal for winning a Peace Prize over his own head... Especially with that trophy. Everyone's made the same point about it. It looks like four, like, essentially severed, zombified hands dragging the planet to hell. Yeah.

49:30It feels like... Yeah. Which is FIFA's new motto, I think. Yeah, it suggests that Infantino is the true evil, like the true puppet master of all this. At the very least, that trophy is handball. It's very unlikely both goalkeepers are going on together. There's four hands there. Someone's got to be committing an infringement for that to be realistic. Yeah, I thought it was truly woeful. I thought it was a new low, even for FIFA. They do, to be fair to them, they do find ways of making things even more embarrassing and pathetic. Interestingly, coming out of it, over the weekend, I saw that there's rumors that some members of the exec committee at FIFA are going to be investigating this peace prize because Infantino has unilaterally decided to do it.

50:11It wasn't given to a vote or anything like that, apparently. So, look, it may well be that if you're being super generous to Infantino, which, of course, you've got no cause to do because he's not done anything to deserve that. But if you were being generous to him, you would say, he perhaps thinks he needed to spend so much time with Trump and give him this stuff so that Trump doesn't make the World Cup so difficult. talking about moving venues talking about getting in the way making it difficult Flattering him is the way to get what you want isn't it? We all have seen that Well it is a way but also standing up to him is another way That's probably a separate conversation but you could understand why if Infantino felt like he needed to do that that's the reason for doing it it doesn't excuse it I think it's disgraceful but it could be why he's done it But the way Infantino was operated before this World Cup that would suggest that he just loves the attention and loves being Yeah of course He wants to be a celebrity He feels like he has more in common with Donald Trump than he does normal people.

51:01Yeah. That's part of it. I mean, Salt Bay wasn't there, so they've learned from that. That we know of. Even Salt Bay feels quaint now. Yeah. Salt Bay feels like quite, just fine. Bring back Blatter and Salt Bay. I've not said that. No, but I mean, if someone offered you that and for all of this to kind of go away, I think you have to take it. I can't say what I want to say about Blatter because producer Rory will just cut it out. But it was a lot less disturbing than it currently is. So Blatter, right? He liked some sort of... Look, fat cats, you know, big, powerful men. They like sort of some questionable conversations.

51:40Oh, you're going to have a go at it? No, no, no. Are you saying, Rory, I've tried, but he's going to have a go at it anyway. What's wrong with saying questionable conversations? I don't know. I don't know what you're going to say next. He liked a big lunch. Definitely liked a big lunch. That's nothing wrong with it. That's not actionable. He definitely liked a big lunch. I'd love to see him prove that he didn't like a big lunch. It's not actionable, Jim. No, no. he liked to be flown around the place yeah he liked to meet lots of different high powered people yeah you see where I'm going with this yeah I mean look you remember the investigation right I don't need to go on about it this Infantino I words fail me it's very very difficult to take the world's most popular sport and turn it into something truly worrying yet he's been able to do it like you can't feel it like football's in safe hands no because they're using it as a tool of propaganda effectively they're kind of against their own rules aren't they their own political interference rules yeah absolutely another thing that is part of this kind of however though do you not think that in among all this it was good to see one of the finest defenders England's ever produced at the helm Rio Ferdinand it was mad to see how he could fans of Schadenfreude yeah how could he fuck it up when Infantino started it off so badly yeah so there was a point where it was confusing the draw to be fair to him it's a tough gig sure yeah because Luke's brought Infantino in first and he was on before that let's have a look at that because he was using open mic mc techniques to get the crowd going and they're a crowd that doesn't need to be got going they've turned it into this sort of gianni infantino comedy bonanza for some reason when it absolutely doesn't have to be that maybe they've i think they've got in their heads and gone americans like entertainment let's like put some razzle dazzle into absolutely every element of it so that was weird enough to start with but yeah i mean rio ferdinand it is quite hard to overstate like the scale of the death that he died now so he it's a to be fair it's a tough gig presenting gigs are very very difficult it's it's a it's a complicated draw as well it's not a straightforward thing but he was so nervous clearly so nervous understandable which suggests that you shouldn't have been doing it you have someone who's who's experienced that and can and can handle that sort of thing kind of he kept saying this wasn't in rehearsal about things another sign of nerves but again really really unprofessional he shut down Heidi Klum in quite an aggressive way really early on Samantha Johnson had to politely tell him a couple of times she was pretty good she's an experienced presenter she's exactly the sort of person who should be doing it so she's kind of helping him through it but when Danny Ramirez asked him if he'd ever scored against Ika Casillas and we had that in that clip earlier and he got really really aggressive towards him that is an open micer who's losing it who's too nervous he can tell he's not got the crowd on his side so he's just like he's just gone straight up aggression at the guy asking the question to try and put all of that pressure onto him it was an incredible thing to witness on such a large scale I've seen performances like that above pubs with six people in audiences that's where we met you've done them haven't you?

54:33very much so yeah absolutely I think that towards the end of the draw he got his head around it and he was like I thought he did alright towards the end but I think he was just trying to be funny oh he was but that doesn't mean that it was a success, does it? No, and he's done it in a really kind of amateurish way. We also didn't need Jonathan Pearson and Dion Dublin on the voiceover. I mean, that was wild. As I say, Jim and I did a whole pod about this, so you can listen to that. But the kickoff times and locations of all the group stage games were revealed on Saturday. England face Croatia. We got a roof!

55:06Yes! England face Croatia. 4pm local time, 9pm our time on the 17th of June. So that's not too shabby. We've been concerned about the kickoff times and what time of the night we're going to have to wake up and all that sort of business. And the heat. And the heat, but it's an indoor stadium. Exactly. So get those air-conditioned units blasting. Yeah. It's not like a greenhouse, is it? Because that's just going to make it worse. Because the concern I had with the schedule was that England are playing Croatia and Ghana the first two games. Yeah. And they're the two toughest games. Yeah. And you've seen in that rarefied atmosphere of a small group where you only get three games, if you start off bad, it can be hard to turn it around because essentially, if you lose, it's slightly different because there's 48 teams now.

55:48But if you lose the first two games, at the very least, you're in big trouble. You're going to be playing someone probably pretty good in the next round if you get through at all. And I would have loved us to have played Panama first or Panama second. Panama second, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, the air conditioning thing is a good thing. I do think that Croatia are a bit more of a spent force than they have been. But the recent history between England and Croatia, even going all the way back to 2008, does make me nervous. Oh, they're canny operators. They are. They are indeed. Scotland of Haiti first which I think is a good start for them totally you know it's the type of game they might lose well I think that the way Clark and everyone has got them going I think that that is a good start because if they can win that game and they will be favourites to do so maybe slim favourites whatever then it sets you up slim favourites against Haiti surely surely they're heavy favourites there I have to start with Jim there Marcus I'm afraid okay fair enough and I think the reality is now 48 team tournaments you win that opening game you're basically through and they've never got out of the group before so all it's taken is that all it's taken for Scotland to enjoy some semi success on the international stage is a massively expanded Euros 50 % bigger than it was a 40-18 World Cup and an opening game against Haiti and they still might not do it but we think they probably will well that opening game they're kicking off at 2am British summer time was that I say not American time no no no that seems it's harsh unnecessarily harsh I mean you know you take that weather-wise, wouldn't you?

57:17But they're going to be, they're in with Morocco and Brazil, obviously, World Cup 98 vibes there. And I mean, finishing off against Brazil in Miami, that's a tall order, especially with the heat and so on. No, it's what you want, isn't it? That's not Miami. Absolutely box office. Yeah. Oh, I mean, Brazil, absolutely. Yeah. I saw a couple of funny Scottish fans social media posts. One was, can't believe, the first time we were qualified for the World Cup in ages and we've got to play Brazil twice once in the group and once in the final and the second one was talking about the kick-off time against Brazil 5pm or whatever it is and 5.08pm and 5.12pm and 5.22pm well we'll see so look we're all up for the cup we're looking forward to it already they drip feed they drip feed the excitement don't they they drip feed the excitement through we'll get the playoff in March stuff in March as well yeah it's going to be great it is yeah and we mentioned Miami there let's stay in that fine city I've never been there so I don't know if it's fine or not but Inter Miami won their first ever MLS Cup at the weekend beat Vancouver Whitecaps 3-1 Lionel Messi and the boys have finally got the prize only like six years after being formed that's more mud in the eye of Cristiano Ronaldo it is another notch on the bedpost for Lionel Messi's career well he needs to go there now and win the MLS Cup David Beckham called it one of the greatest moments of his career.

58:43Yeah, first person to win the MLS Cup as a player and an owner. First time I've heard that kind of mentioned as a possible thing as well. Yeah, true. Yeah, I'm not sure who else would say as a player and a manager. No, no, as an owner. I don't think he's much chance he's going to be a manager, is he? No. Too much on. Yeah, totally, yeah. So I completely agree. Well done, David Beckham. But I tell you what, though, the scenes of celebration, have a master on when they scored the first was on the pitch. He was absolutely loving it. so if you think it's a tin pot cup or anything like that you've got to recognise I don't think it is I think it's a very no but some people might still be a bit sniffy towards American soccer and I'm saying if you are in the minority of people then you're a fool because that was quite something those scenes at the end of that game so well done Messi again absolutely and the other players that were there I'm assured that he had a team as well yeah so there we are I like the dismissive wave of the hand that I really endear us to the American listeners that they'll love that Sergio Busquets is going come on Jordi Elmer's going And Luis Suarez.

59:42Now, they were all there, but again, David Beckham was the real winner. Thank you very much for listening to the Football Ramble, part of the Acast Creator Network. We're back tomorrow for the mailbag, so get involved there. Thank you very much, Jimmy. Thank you. Thank you, Lukey. Thank you very much. Thank you, David.

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