Can-can you feel it?

0:00Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. And whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary Football Weekly podcast, The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts.

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2:06I'm sorry, sorry. Historic abhorrent things from Jim Campbell. What an evening, by the way.

2:16Those things could have happened after the final whistle last time. I have to say, and it gives me great pleasure to say thanks to friend of the Ramble, Hank Madoukas. Madoukas for giving us that intro line. Good old Hank, thanks for having me. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, If you want to submit an intro line like Hank and become a legend for a future episode, get an extended edition of today's show as well. Then become a friend of the Ramble on our Patreon. Just head to patreon.com forward slash football ramble to get involved. All right then, Jimmy. Arsenal 1, Atletico Madrid 0. 2-1 on Ag. Arsenal have qualified for their first Men's Champions League final since 2006.

2:53And Ag is the right word, isn't it? Based on the scenes right at the end. Yes, a little croaky voice there. Yes, very much. That's more to do with Hay Fever, which has been absolutely kicking the heck out of me lately. It was an absolutely pulsating atmosphere at the Emirates last night. One of the best I've ever experienced after the game while they were playing Freedom Desire. I think it might be a UEFA choice. I don't know. UEFA take over, don't they? The concrete was shaking. And that is a weird feeling. That is a really weird thing to experience and a rare thing in my experience. But it was a really, really joyous outpouring of belief and of joy.

3:39And just, yeah, I mean, I think joy really sums it up. This game has been really interesting in terms of how it sat in my mind. And I think this has been true of a lot of Arsenal fans as well. because the difference between not just the performances, but the feeling around games in the Champions League from the Premier League has been so, so different. It has, yeah. And I think actually everybody went into this game without a lot of nerves. Now, obviously, it's all square from the first leg. The club did a lot of really, really good stuff in terms of getting that atmosphere going. They've got everybody, you know, said to everybody, get down there, the bus will be here at this time, make a lot of noise.

4:14That happened. Bikai Osaka referenced it at the end of the game, so clearly it had a positive effect on the players. but people were so up for it, people were so buzzing and it's rare that there's so little nervousness around any sort of big occasion and I'm not even really just talking in the context of this season where Arsenal have been sort of quite anxious and living on the edge a lot it was really, really kind of positive in a way that is really surprising given that it was one of the biggest games in Arsenal's history It's a European semi-final, a Champions League semi-final, the chance to get into their second ever Champions League final.

4:54And all of the stuff pre-game worked so, so well that everyone was just in the best possible spirits. Yeah, I completely agree with that. Proper carnival. You were also there, weren't you? I was there wearing my new suit and red tie, did my bit, evidently. and I was struck by that. I mean, I have been at a number of the Champions League games, of course, because I am available for corporate work. I keep reminding you. We should just on the YouTube just put a number up. Yeah. Very competitive rates. You call me, I won't call you because you won't give me a number. But you're absolutely right. I thought that the atmosphere was one of the best I've witnessed, I think, you know, Luke and I often talk about the atmosphere at St.

5:44James' Park when Newcastle played PSG when they hammered them that time. And you know, every tackle, everyone was celebrating, all the rest of it. It was like that. But the Arsenal, there was an air of expectancy in the best possible way. Not an air of entitlement, an air of expectancy. It was an air of confidence, isn't it? An air of confidence, exactly. It really came across on TV. There was an air of, we believe in you. Totally. And I find myself quite moved by that. I was actually a little bit jealous watching on TV because, you know, from a neutral who wasn't there, it really felt like Athletico would have to conjure something out of nothing.

6:17And obviously the saw-lothed chance at the end, I thought they had done that. But even after that, it wasn't just groans. It was like, come on, we'll pick you up. You know, like, obviously we've had the marathon, like a London marathon a couple of weeks ago. And you know, there's videos that come out of someone struggling and like a couple of runners kind of put their own race aside and carry them forward. It felt a little bit like that, you know. it was a bit like come on no it's fine we still got this the finish line's over there let's go there yeah the home advantage was really I think Arsenal I think they are a better side than Atletico Madrid I don't think that's a controversial take and I always fancied them fewer Nepo babies on your Arsenal team yeah exactly and I always fancied them to beat Atletico or at least sort of do enough you know sort of edge them by the odd goal which they did of course but that home advantage particularly obviously it was in the second like it was incredible Saka said post-match, didn't he, that he'd never seen an atmosphere like it at the Emirates.

7:11And kind of reminded everybody that it's probably the biggest game ever at the Emirates. Yeah. Which I thought was a very fair point. But as I say, the atmosphere and so on, it was something else. And they were getting the last 15 minutes, every interception, everything was celebrated. Come on, you can do this. And this was despite me trying to remind all the Arsenal fans that if they do go on to win the Champions League, they'll be the worst European champions of all time. Come to me. This is why you don't get gigs. And I don't understand why UEFA can't do anything about that. We'll have time to be angling for gigs at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium.

7:49I did get them going in the area with a lovely 1-0 to the Arsenal chart. So I do play the hits. But it was a good performance all round. And they obviously get the goal. It was a tight game, as it was always going to be. and I thought in that second half there was a maturity about it yes you're always running the risk if you've got that solitary goal lead because as Vish says you know Saul has a swing and a miss and there were some other moments you know when Gabriel sort of last ditch when whoever it was I forget now it was Simeone it was Simeone yeah it went past Simeone Jr. yes Raya and so on but I mean how did it feel for you as an Arsenal fan because Because watching it, I thought they're comfortable here.

8:38Yeah, I mean, there is a thing with Atletico Madrid, isn't there? That you always expect a sting in the tail. And it's been said quite a lot of this particular team that they are not the kind of bruisers that they once were. They've still got some incredible attacking talents, as they've always had under Simeone. But they are perhaps sort of caught between two styles a little bit in that they're not like a really, really devastating attacking force and they're no longer the defensive powerhouse they were. And that really was in evidence. As I say, I expected them to be a lot better than they were, actually.

9:14And I thought in the first half, they started quite well and they boxed Arsenal in in the first sort of 15 minutes in a way where Arsenal were struggling to make any meaningful efforts in our own attacking half. And they had a couple of sort of half chances and it was like clear that they were going to try and do what a lot of teams have done, you know, shut off passing lanes and have that box in midfield. But very quickly, Arsenal figured out a way to get around that. And then they started to be on top a little bit. And at that point, especially when Bukai Osaka gets the goal, I'm thinking, it looks to me like they are happy to go to extra time.

9:53So they are not giving it their all at the moment. Now that Arsenal have scored, they'll probably come out flying because they rested their whole team at the weekend. they're pretty much like nailed on to qualify for the Champions League so they can you know they can go to extra time and it won't really affect them too much and that again didn't really happen so you know nerves and anxiety in a stadium come from the feeling that you're gonna make a mistake or you're not going to be able to live with the opposition but those moments didn't come so the nerves didn't come and actually the confidence just grew and grew and you start looking at the clock and you're thinking, all right, it's 80 minutes.

10:30Okay. Okay. Like maybe we're not going to push for a, for a second goal here and maybe we'll try and keep it a bit tight from that. Them on again, that didn't happen. All of those little things that are triggers for the nerves, they just weren't there because I think Arsenal just held Atletico off really, really well. And this isn't a vintage Atletico side, but they are still a side that have managed to get into the semi-final of the Champions League. And I think it is a testament to the work that Arteta has done at Arsenal that means actually they have just surpassed the level of the scary Atletico Madrid that we've seen many teams kind of wilt in front of in the past.

11:04They physically were so kind of capable of this job and Atletico just couldn't really kind of muscle their way into the game in the way that you'd expect them to in the past, which is a really satisfying thing to watch. Well, if we're going to talk about physicality, we've got to talk about Victor Jokoric. Oh, what a game. And that's how you use your body. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's had... I appreciate he came up on the mailbag on Tuesday, didn't he? About whether he had a good season or not. And a lot of stuff was... I suppose the question was framed about... Essentially about goals and points won, or that he would have won off his own back.

11:39But it's things like that, isn't it? It is just realizing that... I don't know, you're part of something bigger. That it isn't necessarily about, you know, your personal numbers at the end of the day, because... He channeled his inner Michael Antonio. Sort of. Do you remember the back end of Drogba's first stage of his career with Chelsea, where he was the most selfless striker going? He'd be front post on corners, he'd do a lot of dirty work and he gets rewarded in that Champions League final against Bayern Munich really, with the equaliser and then the winning penalty. But, you know, I'm not saying Drogba is like Drogba.

12:17I don't probably don't think he'll reach Drogba's levels at all as an individual footballer, but he has come to understand the role he plays in the team for games like this because this is You know, this is usually I appreciate his Havertz was injured wasn't he? He was on the bench, but he's coming back from a small setback But that's a Havertz game really, you know, two months ago that's a Kai Havertz game and You know he came on and he did he did a Havertz-like role in a very different way in terms of like He got them as far away from Arsenal's goal as possible He put pressure on. And, you know, credit to him, because, I mean, the chance, that is the big one.

12:53He does have to put that away. He does at least have to hit the target. At the time, I thought that that had come in maybe a bit too quick, was at a difficult height, and had a bit of bend on it, but looking at it back, I think you're probably right. It's a lovely ball. We've all done it. And it stands up and you think, I'm going to side foot this. Well, we've done it. Yeah. That's the point. Not at the Emirates, though. But you have been at the Emirates. Yes, not on the pitch. It's not Old Trafford. But I, you know, you totally see, oh yeah, and the way the ball's got, and it goes over the bar.

13:28But the fact of the matter is, when you're in the latter stages of the Champions League, in those crucial moments, you know, you look at the other forwards, the other teams who are left in the competition. It's what we were saying the other day. Indeed it was. But I don't want to focus on that too much, purely because Arsenal won the game. If they don't win the game, and let it go peg and back, you do look at that chance. So actually, credit where, I mean, I wondered if in the moment where the defender who fouled him was going to get sent off, you know, the way he was rolling the defenders is exactly what you want.

13:57And some people might say, oh, well, obviously, you know, this is the bare minimum. Well, no, you've got to give credit where it is. There's a lot to do up there on your own as a centre forward. He did it well. And this is, the question we had on the mailbag is, it was, was the effect of, you know, has the criticism hasn't been too harsh on him, I think. And the question that I sort of pose as well is, well, has Jokic improved Arsenal from last season? And I think he has a little bit. He's definitely a different option to what they have. But you see it again with those runs in behind and so on.

14:29It gives the defenders something different to think about. And look at the goal. Yeah, I mean, the goal comes from his hard work. And that is the sort of thing that had been missing earlier in the season. And to sort of expand on the idea we spoke about on the mailbag the other day. We agreed that he has improved Arsenal, I think, by now, certainly. And the reason I say by now is because I think if you look at the player Victor Jokeres is now, compared to the player he was at the start of the season, he's clearly improved. He is demonstrably improved. Now, he's never going to be the sort of perfect striker, but there are very few perfect strikers in the history of the game.

15:05He's not going to become Robert Lewandowski, do you know what I mean? There's always going to be a certain limitation to his game. but what he is doing at the moment is maximising his strengths. And I mean, some of the Atletico defenders were trying to be his backpack yesterday, just jumping all over him. And he actually held up to it really well. And he wasn't using his body in a particularly smart way early on. He would lose those battles and he would maybe be a sort of, perhaps mentally a sort of step behind those defenders. But he really does seem to have upped his game in that regard in a way that is really pleasing to see and look like it might just actually be beyond him to do.

15:40So he works his socks off in every game, but he's really using his brain as well now. And it was a great performance. I feel like now he plays, or he's better at playing with his back to goal. I feel like at the start of the season, he was so obsessed with wanting to face goal that he ended up getting into a bit of trouble here and there and losing the ball. I really liked, in the last 10 minutes, when Arsenal did what Atleti always do in games like that when they're ahead. and it's create a little scrum of subs on the side. There's something about it. It makes it feel like they're covering more ground.

16:18You're about to be swarmed by them. And that you're boxed in. Yeah, yeah. Because also, they do it so well. I remember looking, you know, yesterday when I was watching it, I saw that and I thought, oh, that's a bit close. And I was like, actually, who gives a shit? It's Athlete, yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally. Flow 122 if you want. I mean, Kappa got himself booked. Andrea Berta's kicking off. Love it. Like it was everybody in their part. Did Arteta get a book? He did, he did. I thought that was Simeone. I mean, he was... You know, like when the ball disappears into like the clutch of players and the athletic, I can't remember who it was, but runs in.

16:50I was like, I've seen that role reversal so many times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Arteta's a lovely little dummy, didn't he? When he let the ball go through his legs, which was enjoyable. Did you see the one where he, like it was an arsehole throw, about like eight, you know, 80 odd minutes. And he pretended to go searching for the ball. Like it was fucking missing. Mr. Bean. It's just great. He was in an element yesterday. He was. His interpretation of the technical area is very liberal. Apparently, Diego Simeone was in Mikel Arteta's technical area at one point. So it was absolute free-for-all. Yeah, is there rules against that?

17:22As long as you're in a technical area. I mean, Diego Simeone did have a little shove with Andrea Berta in Stoppage to Time, which was a great job. It's not an act, is it? The Simeone. But I have to say, though, Simeone in his press conference afterwards was very magnanimous in defeat. If we got knocked out, it's because our opponent deserved to go through. They took their big chance in the first half and they deserved to go through. If you ask me how I feel, I feel calm and peaceful. Probably because he got his aggression out. I think the team gave absolutely everything. We could have won it in the second half, but we weren't clinical enough.

17:53That was in the first leg, sorry. And he went on to say, I think Mikel Arteta has done an incredible job at Arsenal. He has been trying to get to this point for a long time. They have incredible financial power. I mean, he's right to say that. Yeah, of course he is. And that's linked to what they're doing. I'm really pleased for them. They deserve it. They have been working really hard for many years. And I thought fair play to him, Simeone. Do you not think that speaks to how bad Atleti were? I thought... They were disappointing. Yeah, I was quite disappointed with them. I mean, you touched on it before, that lent to the calmness that, you know, Arsenal were in the game.

18:26I think, and in his quotes there, I think Atletico, they really had to take a lead from that first leg. in Madrid. And particularly, you know, Lukman had a couple of chances. On another night, they win that 2-1. They're not... Simeone's sides aren't typically good at chasing leads. They're good at holding leads. And I think if they had have won the first leg 2-1, we would have seen a different dynamic, obviously, because goals change games. And that's why I fancied Arsenal. I thought they would win by the old guy. They would just do enough. Because again, Atletico chasing the game, okay, fine.

18:58But I thought if it goes into extra time, I would still fancy Arsenal to up it and get another goal. They didn't need it, of course, and they won it. But, you know, I think tonight we will see more goals. Of course we will. But that wasn't the name of the game last night. You just do enough to get through. And I think that, again, it's another huge milestone for Arsenal. Again, whatever way you cut it, you say, well, it was a kind draw to the final. Well, okay, you can make what you want of that. The fact is Arsenal put the group phase to bed. So they knew they were going to have their second legs at home.

19:31and that's the way the draw panned out. They've not lost a game. No, and they've been so... Their clean sheet record is phenomenal. I mean, look, here's some stats for you here. For those who are fans of stats, they've equaled their club record for most wins in a single season. 41 across all competitions. That goes back to 1970-71. They're on their longest ever unbeaten run in the European Cup slash Champions League, 14 games. Overtaken the 13-game run in 05-06. and they've kept a clean sheet for the 30th time across all competitions this season, which is their most in a single campaign since 1993-94, and most by a Premier League side since Liverpool in 21-22.

20:10So, you know, you can see what they're doing this season, and it's working. They are top of the league. It's in their hands, and they are now in the final. Yes, they have an absolute beast of a team to play. Whoever it is. But come on. I think the thing, if we might briefly look ahead to the final, is that whichever of those two monsters gets through, it's going to be a clash of styles, right? So Arsenal are not going to play PSG or Bayern at their own game because that would be extremely silly. So Arsenal will not be favourites against either of those teams. But it's absolutely massive for the club to be there in the first place.

20:50And obviously they're not just there to take part. They are going to take the game to either of those teams in their own style. And it is essentially going to be a clash of those ideologies, isn't it? and that is going to be a fascinating thing to watch. Yeah, and I get the fact that a lot of the neutrals say, oh, but come on, it's not that inspiring. And I've said this, we've said this throughout the season at various points, but the fact of the matter is here we are in the deep end of the business end of the season. They're in the final, they're top of the Premier League, and the Premier League is very much in their hands, of course.

21:21They've scored a lot of goals this season as well. Obviously, they've played a lot of games, which has allowed for that. But Arsenal can turn it on when they need to. The Fulham game was a great example of that. Now, we've not seen much of that from them in this calendar year, but it is in there. Like I say, I don't expect to see much of that in Budapest. But, yeah. Well, Deglan Rice said after the game that they've turned a corner. And look, here's me being wise after... Well, I know I said this actually after the loss at the Etihad. I just wondered if that would be a sort of, if you will, blessing in disguise because Arsenal can no longer hide.

21:54Now, I know that's the Premier League and the Champions League. It has been different. You're right to say that. but still though, that feeling in the side, it's kind of like you can't hide anymore. You can't just hope that you'll hold on to the lead and the other team will stuff it up. You've got to go and win it. And that applies to the final. There's also been some good fortune in terms of personnel in that Bikai Osaka looks like he is playing at his best level again. Obviously, he didn't complete the game. His minutes will be managed probably for the rest of the season, but he's a massive option.

22:27Martin Odegaard was available, came off the bench played well Myles Lewis Skelly is really fresh he had a brilliant game again he was really really good I mean he's waiting for the same team that they beat Fulham with yeah and I thought that was really bold from Arteta Arteta is often kind of reticent in making big changes like that and I enjoyed the confidence of it I enjoyed the faith that kind of suggested he has in Myles Lewis Skelly in particular Calafiore coming back in as well when he hasn't played a lot and the team played so well on Saturday that they earned the right to play this game.

22:59But, you know, a Champions League semi-final against Atletico Madrid is with respect different from a Fulham team who are all sick. So, you know, it was still quite a bold call and it paid off. But suddenly, it makes the squad feel a lot fresher. Now, Kai Havertz was on the bench as well. So he's going to be an option. It'll be interesting to see how many minutes he gets now. And Arsenal have looked very fatigued for a long time. Suddenly, it doesn't really feel like that to quite the same extreme. I'd also say it's going to be the Champions League final, regardless of who Arsenal play, is going to be slightly tougher because, you know, under three weeks from the World Cup as well, so Rice and Saka would probably have to be rested.

23:40Yep. Yeah, I like what you're thinking here. Probably Madweka, just for, just... Just in case. Yeah. Harry Kane if Bayern go through. Yeah, yeah, but that would be their advantage, wouldn't it? Yeah, it would be, yeah. Not even the odds. No, but I did think that. It's all very well saying about, you know, Saka coming back for the title running and the Champions League. This is very good news for... And, oi, Jim, let's keep our eyes on the main prize here. Jim, just think of like, oh, his minutes will be managed. Not by Arsenal, mate. We'll be the judge of that. We'll put it to a referendum. Yeah, it's been a while, actually, isn't it?

24:11It has, yeah. We need to unite the country. Let's do that. Ten years on. Well, look, they're in the final. And we will talk about the other semi-final that's happening tonight in just a moment. But coming up after this, Manchester City dropped crucial points on Monday night.

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27:04Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. And whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary football weekly podcast, The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. My wife won't stop talking about Jerry.

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28:28Sunday night, it was 3-0. Marvellous game, marvellous game of football. Man City though, now five points behind Arsenal with a game in hand. It was so funny, when that Doku goal went in right at the end of the game, some Arsenal friends of mine were like, oh, I can't believe, oh, I'm just like... I understand that you'd have rather lost, but come on. Any drop point is actually a point for Arsenal at this point. You cannot be that annoyed by that. Absolutely not. Actually, so I didn't watch this game, and I think there's been a real split. You've already done arrogance. Dead rubber in a jib. You came in with a little Man City bottle that he asked you to drink from.

29:04That bloke got his justs, didn't he, on Monday night. The expectation, though, was like, Man City will probably win. I'm not sure I want to put myself through the ups and downs of it. So there's been a real interesting split in the people that did and didn't watch the game in terms of how disappointed they are by that late goal. So I look at that result and I'm like, oh, my God, I did not expect that. That is fantastic. You know, City dropping points is great. but everyone who watched the game was just like it could have been three points dropped though. Yeah, I appreciate that. I completely agree with you.

29:36Of course it's a huge positive. And again, in the spirit of what I said about Arsenal losing at the Etihad, maybe again, go to West Ham and you've got to win. We've seen this is the thing and there have been so many sort of twists and turns in this season that I'm basically trying to just not think about it so I don't have to confront it. But it does put it back in Arsenal's hands. So obviously, Yeah, I mean we're not talking about Arsenal now, we should talk about that title. Well, we're talking about the title. In a way we are, yeah. Don't worry Jim, fill your boots today. Okay. Yeah, I mean so that West Ham game is tricky.

30:06Obviously they're fighting for their lives now. Spurs have really complicated that. Again, not very neighbourly. They do that, don't they? They can be like that. Yeah, they do. Oh, you've got a lovely new conservatory and suddenly you think you're really big bananas. Look at our big golden cock. You're going to win the Premier League title? like, well, we're going to stay up. We're going to ruin your defence next season. He's going to hate that. And we've riled up West Ham, you know what he's like. But yeah, but Man City, they've dropped 12 points from winning positions in the Premier League since the turn of the year.

30:41Surprising, isn't it? Jim, everyone keeps telling me they're relentless. I just wanted to... Oh, here it is. Here it is. How many times have I got to tell you people? Deary me. but it's the joint most in the division alongside Spurs Newcastle. Yeah, it is very, very surprising. And this game was a really, really odd one as well because of the nature of the first goal in particular. It was actually not very welcome from Uncle Mark in a World Cup year. The first Everton goal. Sorry, yes, because the first goal is a beauty from Dockers. Yeah, absolutely. Which he specialises in, doesn't he? Yeah.

31:14I think a lot of people finish the game going, hang on, is he right footed or left footed? because that goal was a peach. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Well, to be fair, you know he's right-footed. You've seen him watch it for so long. Well, indeed, but that's what I mean. The way he hit the ball was exactly the same on either side, which is very impressive. But he's clearly practiced that because even at points at the start of the season, he was so right-footed. Yeah. Going to the dynamics of the game, you were just about to mention the first Everton goal there. What I found fascinating was Manchester City 1-0 up at half-time and in control.

31:48And then second half, they start to lose control and Njai has a chance where he's through on goal and I remember going this is a moment and of course Donnarumma saves and I thought to myself Arsenal fans are going to be pissed right off at that because what a chance that was and Man City didn't learn from that because at the back it was I understand then Gay makes a dreadful error but how many times did Njai himself come forward and he tried to make a bench but the fact is they were 3-1 up and I just I just wonder look there's the stats they've dropped 12 points from winning positions. So again, they've got that rick in them, particularly defensively.

32:23But I just wonder if, after that and Jaya chance, were they thinking goal difference? Or is just this how they play this season? Because for me, I wonder if, you know, hindsight's an easy old thing to see, but I wonder if they sort of go, okay, we're 1-0 up. Actually, the game is turning. Let's just get out of here with the win. Let's not worry about that. But of course, the back door was left pretty wide open. I know one of the goals is from a corner and whatnot, but the fact of the matter is they were 3-1 down. Yes, they showed character coming back and getting the draw. You have to say that.

32:57And Haaland's goal, I mean, is that the ultimate switching off after scoring a goal from Everton? Yeah, although... Beautiful pass through to him. That was what I was going to say, though. From Kovacic. Who remembered Kovacic, by the way? I just assumed he was going to come on for PSG or Bayern in the final of the Champions League, you know, or even Arsenal. That feels out of order. It's like they're bringing on Yaya Turi or David Silva. But he come from... But that's a brilliant three-wall to Haaland. And obviously he's got the pace and the power and all the other Alan Hansen stuff to go and put that away.

33:24So I think you've got to give them credit for having the skill to execute that. It's a shocking goal to concede after you've just scored. But it's never been a question of City scoring goals. No, well, yeah. They've only got two more than Arsenal in the league this season. But yeah, like obviously with all their players, we always know that's the thing that was going to drive them towards his title. But do you know what was fascinating? Seeing Pep on the sideline when it was just happening. And you can see in his eyes, it's almost as if... I've never been able to see more inside someone's brain.

33:51Yeah. When he's like looking out into the middle distance. You're like, oh no. And he's thinking, I used to have way more control over what's going on out there. This is... And you saw him, he was just like, ah. I wonder what Iniesta's doing now. I bet he does just sit there thinking about Iniesta all the time. As you should, yeah. But the big thing from the Arsenal game, Rodri's injury. Yeah. They don't give that game away if Rodri's playing. Do you think? Yeah, I think you're probably right. Rodri has been excellent recently. No, but I think there was a sense, wasn't it, that Rodri was maybe past his best and with the injuries he's picked up and at his age and the miles on the clock that he might start to decline now.

34:35But he got himself back up to speed before his recent injury. He's been really, really good for them lately. One of the things I find quite interesting is that obviously at 3-1 down, some fans started to leave. You suggested as well that the Etihad has actually been quite nervy and all of the kind of narrative has been about Arsenal being nervy at the Emirates. But that does suggest that there's a little bit of pressure showing on them as well. Yeah, the Etihad has been nervy for months, you know. And that's not a criticism, just observation. But again, at this time, so many people have been saying that they're going to click in its relentlessness.

35:11Again, I'm just saying, look, just look at it. that's not the case this is not some sort of hot take it's like are you not seeing what I'm you know that's what it is but look it's still Arsenal still they've got to go and get a result of West Ham but Man City still have three more episodes left indeed there is but Man City have got a tougher run in Brentford are not going to lie down because Brentford have still got European football to play for away to Bournemouth is tricky whereas Arsenal if they beat West Ham they're playing Burnley and as I said a Palace side who days later have a Europa Conference League final, unless they have an absolute disaster, they will not be interested in putting up, in risking any kind of injury against Arsenal.

35:56So it's almost the perfect run-in really. It's bordering on for me, and I know you're an Arsenal fan, you're not going to say this, it's bordering on unthinkable for me that Arsenal don't go on and win this Premier League title now. You were just saying that off air. Well, it was hard to understand what he was saying with the chanting and the bells and all that go. And the drinking from the Man City bottle, as we mentioned before. And yeah, once again I'd like to apologise for the Willy Copter. I thought it would be funny. I took a risk. If you're going to apologise for this one, you've got to apologise for all the previous ones as well.

36:28Again, Jim, Vish and I are not the guys you need to apologise to. Sure. You do have a meeting with HR later. We do have someone here on work experience as well, Jim, and you cannot be doing that. Sorry. I said sorry, didn't I? Yeah, true. You did. You definitely did. Moving away from the title race, but staying with Man City, Phil Foden has agreed terms on a new contract to keep him at Manchester City until 2030. I like this because Phil Foden's had a lot of criticism, hasn't he? Because the past two seasons, he's not been the same player as he was the season before, which was the best player in the Premier League.

37:00He's spoken about some private struggles. We don't really know what they are, so let's not speculate on that. I think it's a show of faith in him. I also wonder what his status in the team is now because Ryan Cherky has obviously come in and is undroppable really but we know that Guardiola likes to rotate even when it might seem like it's like you're dropping a player who's in form Nico O 'Reilly has played in that position as well and done very well there and I think actually in the modern game where you really do need to rotate to keep fresh I mean the most extreme examples are PSG and Bayern they've rotated a lot this season and so that's how they complained with such high intensity, certainly PSG.

37:43And I wonder, actually, might that suit Foden while he's trying to sort of find his best form again? Well, I think he has had fitness issues as well. So with the rotation, I think it's more due to, you know, things that have not been put out in the media. I wonder, though, with Foden, Guardiola will almost certainly leave at the end of this season I'm 99 % sure now because that is definitely all the noises you're hearing Yeah, it's not the end of his contract though he has another year after it so it's not within the realms of possibility Indeed Do you think Foden would have signed the contract if he knew Guardiola was leaving?

38:22Well, I think it'll be you know this summer or the summer after it'll probably go What else does Foden do? If the contract's there the money's there I suppose He's a homeboy. Exactly. I think it would be very unlikely. Angling for a move, where you're going to move, all that kind of stuff. Also, with the stuff that, again, hasn't been put out in the media, I think that it would be, the club believes, that strikes me, as Jim mentioned there, the club believe in him. They think, right, okay, whatever's going on, we can go forward, and when you're back, we'll be there. Whoever comes in, again a lot of suggestions Mareska will come in this summer and if not this summer the next summer I just wonder for Phil Foden we want to see him back on the pitch of course we do he wants to see that more than anybody if it goes on and on and on you know you think you do have slight concerns for him certainly at that level but look good that the contract's there because like I say he's such a wonderful player you want to see him doing his stuff simple as that he does have quite a few options at his disposal as in for where his future might lie at City Bernardo Silva's going we've seen him we've seen him do it probably in you know when he's been fully fit he's able to play in that midfield too he doesn't necessarily need to be out wide I think sometimes out wide you probably lose a bit particularly we saw it with England mainly but I don't see why he couldn't play deeper and just be someone who just buzzes about like Bernardo Silva does he's an intelligent player yeah he is But even so though, I think part of the reason that Bernardo Silva has been able to make that switch, surely is Guardiola himself, right?

40:08He's very, very good at getting players to switch into a new position and move their skill sets elsewhere. That's a really rare thing in a coach, right? To be able to get players to go from being world class in one position to being world class in a quite different position. Eddie, how managed it with Joel Linton? That's very true. Although he wasn't a world class forward, I will say that. Yeah. Is he a world class midfielder? Was it relevant? He repurposed a book into a doorstop. Show at footballramble.com. Was it relevant at footballramble.com? That should be our point of view, if you want to complain.

40:44Don't give them that address, it'll be bombarded. Because a lot of people complain, not just that we're wrong, but just like what was the point of that? So we should open up that email address. Yeah, and again, surely people know by now that we simply cannot pull on that thread for the sake of our own mental health. Indeed. Gentlemen, I want to turn our attention to the bottom of the league where Nottingham Forest are having a lovely old time. They beat Chelsea 3-1, of course, on Monday. They're now six points clear of the drop zone with three games left to play. Blimey, O 'Reilly, the recent away trips from Nottingham Forest have been pretty damn good.

41:22I mean, eight goals in the last two away games. Five nil against Sunderland, 3-1 away to Chelsea. and here was us thinking oh Callum McFarlane's coming Rosinha's gone they've won the semi-final Chelsea you know they'll just revert to type now new it's not a new manager bounce because he's already done the interim right exactly before you lose it but the bounce was the semi-final maybe you could argue but that's what I mean they've had it true true that was their sixth straight loss in the Premier League that's mad the form table is hilarious it's so good because Nottingham Forest are top and you know a 1-0 up in the Europa League semi-final.

41:58What a turnaround from them. Chelsea are rock bottom below Burnley on goal difference. Yeah, there you go. Mad, absolutely mad. And they're still in the... Historically bad. They're still in the top half, though. That's the funny thing. I mean, sorry to jump on you there, Marcus, but doesn't Enzo Maresca feel like seasons ago rather than months ago? Yeah, it does. He was at the ground, wasn't he? Was he there? He was at Stamford Bridge. Why? Yeah, that's a really odd choice, isn't it? Chuckling. See? It's like that meme of the guy who turns up to the funeral of his hater. Just to make sure he's dead.

42:33I know you've lost five in a row, but I wouldn't mind to see the sixth. This place doesn't do shit, isn't it? Yeah, it really is quite something, isn't it? Again, when Mareska was there, clearly he was a decent manager. But he had his critics and sometimes the playing style was... It wasn't perfect under Mareska, but it was a darn sight better than this. And I think Mureska was a really good manager. He will almost certainly manage Manchester City in the near future. He was great at Leicester City, of course. And what is so funny, though, do you remember the Leicester players? But did they go away to, was it Denmark, on a trip or something?

43:05And they had a big banner for him or they were singing his name, the players. They missed him and Steve Cooper was not going to last two minutes with all that going on. And then the Chelsea players now are yearning for Mureska. Is this the new Mourinho kind of feel? Do you remember with Mourinho when he left Chelsea that time and Lampard and Terry and co were like, it was like they wanted their lover back sort of thing. It was an amazing spell he cast on those players. I don't know if Maresca, there's something there. But yeah, Chelsea, I mean, it's an absolute shit show. They can't finish fifth in the league anymore.

43:37They will be, as a number of teams around them, will be hoping that Villa do them a solid because if Villa do win the Europa League and finish fifth, then sixth place will go to the Champions League and the Premier League and that's currently Bournemouth and Villa okay they've got to get past Forest and that's a huge game tomorrow night Villa rested a lot of players against Spurs and Villa's home form is really good aside from that one absolute abomination that they put in at the weekend so weird yeah but I mean yeah they've got a good chance of turning that around but still I think Chelsea now they've got a hope for Villa to do that and even if they do are Chelsea really going to catch Bournemouth four points above might they look like a group of players who it's not that they don't have any belief in the project at the moment it's that they don't really know what it even is like if you are a Chelsea player what sort of future are you looking at at the club because if they continue with the policy which you know kind of some wise heads suggest that they're now finally considering tweaking that and going for some more experienced players amongst the youth players they bring in and sort of shifting the balance on that a little bit.

44:51What a thing. Yeah, right. Exactly. It's just like you, as a senior player, you might think, am I just wasting my best years here while they kind of keep acting as like essentially a marketplace for young players? Yeah, totally. Those Chelsea players, they have to take some share of the blame because yes, we can blame the board. Yeah, we can say the manager wasn't up to it. But my goodness, they have been piss poor. I take your point about, say, Enzo Fernandes, who, let's be honest, would bloody love, you know, sending up an SOS call to Real Madrid. And they are reportedly interested in him. As our city, apparently.

45:25Yeah. Makes sense. And I get that from his point of view. And he has been, by and large, good at Chelsea. and it's the modern game and blah, blah, blah, blah but some of those players have been so bad at Chelsea of late. But my goodness though, did Forrest not capitalise on that and Awanee had a lovely old time, didn't he? For the guy who, again, very rarely starts in the Premier League, for your man to come in and put a couple of goals on the score sheet for you, it was great for them and Feta Pereira's got them playing. I mean, no team has been relegated on 42 points since West Ham in 2003. Again, it's...

46:04Forrest aren't going down. Let's be honest. Forrest and Leeds are safe... It really is that straight shootout between Spurs and West Ham. And in Forrest's last six games, 1-4 drawn too. Where was that earlier on in the season? Where was that under previous managers? You have to give Vitor Pereira credit and they go into their Europa League semifinal with a goal advantage. It wasn't that long ago on this show that we were wondering about what Forrest looked like if they stay up next season. Because looking at the quality they have in the squad, we were kind of like, will they be good? Do we expect them to be good?

46:41Clearly they are. And they've just figured it out earlier than we expected them to. This is night and day, isn't it? Well, it's night and day when you think about Evangelos Maranakis when he was on the pitch. You know, having a go at Nuno that time all the while ago and all the sort of ramblings. and then you saw him walking through the crowd of Forest fans after the full-time whistle outside the ground and he was soaking up the praise. What a sport. But I'm not even having a go at the fickleness of that image. It's just like, people wanted him to choke on his own throne chair, the city ground, and then just high-fiving him as he walks through there.

47:22Do you think they were like, here he comes, you have a poppet, oh, he's quite big. Well done, good man. Yeah. Explaining why he's controversial to someone who doesn't like football... Oh man. ...is interesting because he doesn't really involve football. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, is that in your pocket? Oh, it is. Sorry. As you were. Oh, okay. Is that a chocolate bar? Don't answer it. I don't want to know. I do not want to know. Apparently Xavi is under consideration by Chelsea to take over as their next manager. Are they just testing the waters on that? Must be. That's... Yeah. Anyone can be under consideration.

47:58Indeed. Do remember that. Now, one of the players at the centre of everything Forrester doing well at the moment is Morgan Gibbs-White. He got a horrendous injury against Chelsea. What in the Westworld was that? People think you can see his skull. I think it might be a sort of layer of tissue. But there is something you shouldn't be able to see on Morgan Gibbs-White's forehead after that clash. I think he's okay, isn't he? but he's going to have a nasty scar there and that was awful. Well, Pereira wants him to be fit, obviously, for tomorrow night and they're not sure with concussion protocols and so on.

48:32Pereira said to him, don't head the ball, just play. Because if he heads the ball, I mean, you saw the stitches on the photo. Just play. And I did think to myself, I mean, it does give the opposition, you know, long balls into it. Yeah. But, yeah, we will see. But we will. What is it like? Let's kick the ball at Gibbs White's head. Got him. We will be discussing Morgan Gibbs White finding form at the perfect time on this week's Lions Watch. For YouTube viewers, that will have already gone out for you lot by the time you're watching this. And for podcast listeners, you'll get that in your feeds at 4pm today.

49:05I promise you, it'll be bloody brilliant. Right, coming after this, we're in for another treat.

49:39We'll see you next time. Watch and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective, and a squad of Americans, including me, on the ground with the U.S. national team. Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge, try On The Ball. It's a game in the Guardian app, and it's really, really fun. And if you're into stuff like this… Well, I think the problem is if you give footballers an inch, they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much.

50:06It's a bit too real. Maybe you could just talk with a slight delay. Be sure to listen to our Football Weekly podcast for on-the-move expert analysis. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. We asked you here because we care. And your car insurance doesn't. They've raised your rate every year, and you haven't even checked. I thought that was normal. A lot of people do. That's why there's Jerry. Jerry pulls up to 20 quotes from top insurers in minutes, shows them side by side and lets you switch in the app. No jumping sites, no re-entering info, no spam calls.

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51:00Tonight it's Bayern Munich versus Paris Saint-Germain. 8pm in case you're wondering. 5-4 on aggregate. The tie is nicely poised. It really is. I tell you what, though, the scrapping of away goals has made a difference. Yeah, and it's way better, isn't it? It is, yeah. I was sceptical. I thought I would miss it, but it is way better. Yeah, I know what you mean. And it's obviously fairer. Yeah. Yeah. I thought, yeah, I think often rule changes, in fact, nearly always rule changes, are to benefit the bigger sides. Sure. But actually, yeah, I think there's, I don't think you get that game in Paris.

51:34It's not taken away as much drama as I thought it would. I think it's actually added to it. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I definitely agree with that. Yeah. Vincent Gumbany said ahead of this match, if someone has bought a ticket and feels unwell on the day of the game, stay at home and give your ticket to the fittest of people who can contribute to this fortress. Right, Darwin. What the fuck? What is that? It's more like Matt Goss, isn't it? I don't want you... It's a bit... Was it Luke Goss? Bit edgy. I can't remember which one was the woo-woo one. Jeremy Goss. Sure. Form an Orange City. Oh, no, you're not talking about him.

52:06But yeah, I... I... I mean, they're a marginal... If you are weak... There are marginal gains, aren't they? Imagine turning up with a bit of a sniffle and thinking, am I welcome here? We'll be sweet. You know, the Arsenal fans being encouraged to go early to greet the boss. The Bayern fans have to go early for a medical screening. Yeah, they're gonna do the old Covid temperature test. Yeah, temperature's too high. Get out. No. Give it to that guy over there. Yeah, superb. Yeah, incredible. Well, this game, we are all looking forward to this immensely. After one of the finest games of football we have ever seen in our lives, Vish.

52:47What if it disappoints? What if it's not the same? What if it's only 3-2? Yeah, I didn't think about that. Despite being a goal down, I still feel like it's advantage-buying here. I don't know. We're going to hear some can-cans, I'd imagine. PSG have got a bit of that Atleti cunt in them. True. Yeah, I think... I was saying this last night to a couple of people. I think if I was an Arsenal fan, I'd prefer to play Bayern Munich in the final. Yeah, I agree. And the fact that all three of us agree with that pretty immediately, or both of you agree with me, is pretty well. There's also Kane's going to be resting.

53:27Yeah, well, exactly. I think, actually, you've got the more paranoid part of my arsenal brain is like ah but you don't want the Harry Kane narrative but you've just got to put that aside and I think the way PSG break and the speed with which they break it's just unplayable they can play so many different styles and play that at such a high level you know what Bayern are going to do and Bayern can do that as well but I think it's the pace of PSG yeah well I mean Bayern aren't lacking in pace with Diaz and Elisa I take the point though that PSG seem to have it in every single position but PSG the way that they can mix it up I think the way Luis Enrique's got them they're such a phenomenal side this Bayern side is very very good don't get me wrong they love scoring goals and that's always a good sign but Luis Enrique and his team have done this before so I'm now talking about the final and who Arsenal will play they've done it before they know what they're doing and I think again if you're Arteta it's like how do I approach this with PSG with Bayern you know what they're going to do and that little bit of predictability I think helps you although Saka said in his interview with is it CBS with Michael Richards and all he asked them who would you rather play in the final and Saka said you know I can't answer that I'm going to give a media answer and so on and so forth and then he did say but you know we all know who we want to play and he hinted at what happened last season so clearly well I don't know if he did hint at that though oh I got the impression you think that's what it is I got the impression yeah massively PSG yeah yeah yeah which I thought well that's very bold of you I mean obviously whoever they play will be a formidable opponent but yeah with that slightly more predictable nature of Bayern.

55:02That's what I'd probably go with if you could pick and choose. But PSG, again, tonight though, and this is where I think PSG have got the advantages, Bayern need to win the game. There's no two ways about that. I think just bearing in mind PSG were 5-2 up at one point, and they would have been disappointed that they let Bayern back into it. I just think the way both of these teams play though, and maybe this is me really, really wanting to see another game of similar quality. I just feel like it's very very unlikely that PS3 go and do a job and try and sort of sit back on them because that but I think they're capable of that yeah but they're so devastating on the break but look at the team they're facing if you try and contain Bayern Munich and you say to them alright come and have a pop at us that is absolute like music to their ears specifically the can-can but they sort of did that a little bit with the yabba-dabba-doo to start with the yabba-dabba-doo for some reason

56:00Because it wasn't annoying enough. You have to hand it to them, you do. You bunch of bastards. Yeah, here it goes again. It's the idea of like, if Bayern get the first goal and Marquinhos is turning to everyone like, switch on, you know, keep your heads while the Can-Cans play in the background. Maybe that's why they do it. Don't listen, cover your ears. I actually think this game is more likely to... Like, if this game is to be more conservative I think it comes from Bayern's side because as you say they were 5-2 down that in isolation is awful really they were basically done in a side at that point you're right to give them credit for coming back with a couple of goals but it's more in Bayern's interest to try and quieten this game down than it is PSG's I think that's a fair point I just think that the way Bayern play it will be like what they did in Paris potentially, unless company takes a piece of your wisdom so late on in the day.

56:59But I... and it does seem unlikely. What do they say on the football rambles? Doing the Yabby Abidoo thing again, yeah. I like it as well, yeah. Yeah, I think that PSG will just be waiting for that. And they can defend so solidly as a unit as well. I think that... that's the difficulty playing this PSG side. whatever you do they're gonna go oh you want to play like that yeah fine we'll it's for Tina innit yeah it really is him just sit down you little prick fuck stop trying to sell my nana time shirt fuck off you little d 'artagnan looking prick he's outstanding to be fair I think the I love him I just don't trust him yeah that's true the amount of times you've said that about me what about Harry Kane though Vish because he's only got 45 minutes isn't he because he's got a rest Exactly, yeah.

57:50So you've got to pick which half. Have you heard though that your beloved Manchester United are reportedly ready to break the bank to sign Harry Kane this summer? I like Manchester United to try and break the bank. Yeah, what do you think of that? I mean, if Manchester United start next evening to Harry Kane, I'm not going to be complaining. No. But I think it's ludicrous, yeah. It's also probably not true. Well Harry Kane has... No, it's true, it's a Ratcliffe one. I've seen a Ratcliffe one. Harry Kane is probably the best writer in the world. Let's get him. He's like, can you put that out to the press?

58:22Yeah, all right. You've seen this petition in Mbappe. Let's get Mbappe. Yeah, all right. Two people ran the marathon in under two hours. Let's get them as well. Yeah. Yeah, does that mean they could last 90 minutes or not? Did they have to get the marathon done so quickly because they thought we can't last? Yeah, cowards. That's how it works. Can't even stomach it. You've got to get it out there as quickly as possible. Do it with the ball at your feet. Yeah, Harry Kane. That would be something. Harry Kane is reportedly not keen on the move, funnily enough. But Vincent Cumberney was talking about Harry Kane, as I'd imagine he would be.

58:59And he says that Kane was underestimated, as he put it, in England. He said people in England saw him as a goal scorer. His finishing and leadership were never underestimated. We've seen other qualities too, such as his footballing intelligence. We can appreciate that now. and it was perhaps somewhat, again, underestimated in England. He is like a fine wine that improves with age. I don't think that's true. Yeah, I didn't think that was true, particularly. I think some people did in the kind of like, you know, football rival fan way, but also like people like that are idiots anyway. Because, yeah, he was scoring goals, but he was like also posting De Bruyne assist numbers.

59:38I don't think anyone around this table underrates him in that way. Underestimate. Underestimate, sorry. But I think a lot of the things that company would have been talking about there is just like internet dialogue. Well, I do think we underestimated his ability to produce a brilliant slide tackle on the edge of his team's box, which he seems to do once again. This is true, yeah. Which is quite enjoyable. I think since he's gone to Bayern, because of the team he's playing with and whatnot, we have seen him just become this incredible player, centre-forward, has been number 10 Trek artist all rolled into one it just he is Harry Kane himself is a one man total football player when he's just running around the pitch and just doing all sorts of stuff it's a really beautiful thing to see a player and think oh yeah you have hit peak there is no chance that people look back on his career especially now he's got trophies to his name as well and go oh yeah he didn't quite you know and maximise his potential.

1:00:39He is thriving in it and he has been doing so for a long time now. But that's why I'm so delighted that he got that move to Bayern. Because to do this at an elite level club who are winning week in, week out, look at how deep he's going in the Champions League. He's in another semi-final. Can he go to the final though, Vish? Let's have a prediction from you and you only. Yes, he can. Yes, he can, can. Yes. There you go. I fear though that PSG are going to edge this game. Yeah, yeah. Imagine if it's an absolute war of attrition borefest, like more horrendous than anything Arsenal have served up this season.

1:01:16Or where to go have ever served up. Like they're doing it as a, like, sarcastically or something. Like, flip the script from last week where people are like, God, I wish I was watching Arsenal's Letty. This is rubbish. You like this Wesley Schneider?

1:01:30Oh, yeah. I totally agree with what you said about Arcade. It's like when you have a favourite jacket and someone stylish is like, that's a nice jacket. The fact that He's in Germany. Loads of people are like, God, he's so good. He's unbelievable. We've never seen a player like him in the Bundesliga. Yeah. Just nice. And he's ours. Yes, he is. Not quite ours, but... Yeah. I know what you meant. But yeah, tonight is going to be a great game. We look forward to that. And thank you for listening to the Football Ramble, part of the Acast Creator Network. Friends of the Ramble don't go anywhere. Keep listening for Ramble Uncut.

1:01:57And if you're not a friend of the Ramble, head over to patreon.com forward slash football ramble to sign up now and get tickets to our World Cup party too on the 17th of June. lovely stuff thank you very much Jim Campbell you're welcome thank you very much for doing a henteraja you're welcome too Jim thanks and thank you go on then Nikhil Arteca

1:02:25The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network

1:02:37Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. And whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary Football Weekly podcast, The Guardian. Bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. Thank you.