Drone nerd

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4:44Luke Moore: I'm not the man you think I am, everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble. Michael Carrick's still in charge and Fleetwood Town are still in the League Cup. It's Wednesday, 28th of October. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm David Carledge.

5:08Luke Moore: Whoa, everybody! Whoa! We thought today was going to be one of those shows a little bit more on the quiet side. And then Luke Moore walked into the studio. What would Alan Brazil have said to that result last night? He would have said, whoa! And he wouldn't have seen two different versions. he very much saw it happen so yes we must say before we get to that thanks to friend of the Ramble Daniel Abercrombie nice what an him new kids on the block had a bunch of hits there you go friends of somebody called Fitch as well you'd hope so you'd hope so old Abercrombie gave us that intro line if you want to submit an intro line for a future episode then become a friend of the Ramble on our Patreon you'll also get an extended edition of today's Ramble which we call Ramble Uncut and it's out every single Wednesday It's an absolute blast.

5:55It's not to be confused with Keys and Grey Unleashed.

5:58Luke Moore: No, very similar content, though. We're uncut. They're unleashed. Yes. They're a bit more vanilla. We're a bit more risque. We're a bit more raspberry ripple. Yeah, exactly. Speaking of which, by the way, speaking of it, it takes a certain time. I'm not going to cast aspersions on Daniel Abercrombie's character. I don't know the man. Yeah. But it does take a certain type of individual to be submitting Morrissey lyrics in 2026. Yeah. Doesn't it? That's all good, though. Is it all good? Well, the Smiths are my fair band. Are they? Yeah, yeah. Is it Smiths or Morrissey? I know the Smiths that's okay that's fine I love Mozza as well that's fine you love Mozza it's fine Jackson 5 fine okay the Smiths are fine yeah fine okay no worries yeah the Lost Profits fine right that's too far well it's the same concept it's not the same concept if Pete was here he'd know what I meant no if they had a band if there was another band or another thing he was in before all that happened they came on my Spotify playlist the other day should be on there still should be on there still I still think you can get away with Off the Wall but there we are Off the Wall Oh, you're up to and including off the wall.

6:54Luke Moore: And bad. Right, you're clicking the show notes to sign up now as well. Yeah, they'll sign up after that, wouldn't they? Yeah? Absolutely ridiculous. Ridiculous. That's your line into the fucking line to sign up to our fucking Patreon. One last crack at the big time, guys. I'll tell you what. That's what Fleetwood Town thought when they faced Arsenal last night. They did. That was a big crack. That was a crack at the big time, and they made it. I'll tell you something. One of the all-time great League Cup upsets. Do we even need to say League Cup? Well, I think the problem is that some people might believe that it's slightly undermined because it's the League Cup.

7:30If it was the FA Cup, this would be around the world. Get out of it. Yeah, I think the League Cup deserves respect. I think this result deserves respect. And I think Fleetwood Town deserves respect.

7:39Luke Moore: David, do you like that it happened at Highbury Stadium? That was very nice. That was fitting, isn't it? It was. With Fleetwood wearing Arsenal colours. Yeah, it was brilliant like that. And then just everything about it as well. Nighttime game. Flood lights are on. Weather was crap. There was a few meaty challenges, which we'll get into, I'm sure. Yeah. It had it all. Perfectly what Luke's just said. Red card penalties, yeah. I should say, by the way, when I say Fleetwood were wearing Arsenal, because that is their kit and has been for a while. It wasn't like, oh, get a load of us, Arsenal. Oh, we forgot our kit.

8:05Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's borrow yours.

8:06Luke Moore: Not disrespecting Fleetwood Town. It would be a bad day to do that. I think it would be a cold day in hell before you would disrespect a place like Fleetwood Town, Marcus. There you go. There you go. Exactly, yes. Indeed. Mikel Arteta said after the match I'm sad we're all sad Paul Merson said at Fleetwood Town life is about memories and they've got one for life come on he hasn't forgotten his time at Portsmouth no he hasn't nor should he the boogies had Arsenal at 25 to 1 on yeah which is incredible it is incredible yeah but a lot of people out there lost a bit of waste today yeah 84 places between the two sides of course that was a strong team though wasn't completely it wasn't like Wenger back in the day when he just filled the whole team with youngsters Yeah, exactly.

8:47And Carlos Vela was there chipping everybody every single game. There was some serious players in there as well. So, brilliant from Flavio. I think you have to... I mean, so they started with... Basically, there was two... I mean, apart from Sam and O 'Neill, basically they were players who start Premier League games.

9:06Luke Moore: Even the goalkeeper, Meliard. I mean, he's an experienced goalkeeper. Yeah, of course. I forgot he was at Arsenal, to be quite frank. And also, we know all about Damwon. I know Damwon doesn't necessarily start Premier League games, but he's featured and he's caught headlines. For anybody who, I mean, I'm sure everybody, Yeah, well, for anybody who didn't see the game, obviously you'd be aware of the result. I mean, Timber Mosquera and Hincapier are three of the back four. Yeah. Zubamende, Louis Skelly, Daumann, Havertz, okay, O 'Neal's on the left side and Jacare's up front. I mean, it's enough to beat lowly placed League Two side.

9:36Luke Moore: But it went the way it went and sometimes these games go that way, right? It gets sticky, it gets tough. Flickman scored a first goal. Then that changed. Fulham Loney, thank you. Was it? Is it really? Okay, is he highly rated? He's playing at Fleetwood Town. Okay, so you don't know then. He'll be high rated now. Yeah, that's probably fair, yeah. I could have worked that out myself. But what happens is obviously the complexion of the game changes. They dig in, they turn it into a kind of, this is like our night, we're going to do everything we can here. Obviously Arsenal can't break them down, can't deal with it, and what happens, happens.

10:09Luke Moore: It does, yeah. I mean, when Arsenal scored, it was just kind of one-way traffic from there. I mean, they were... I have to say... Keeper makes a couple of really good saves. Oh, Lynch... Which is vital. 19 shots off target though from Arsenal. Which is wild. Yeah, it is. You pay for Giocares, you get Giocares. Well, let's call Arsenal what the Guardian referred to them as, as Mikel Arteta's aristocrats. Oh, really? Yeah. That's so Guardian. It is very... Do you think they were a bit like, oh, get a load of us, right? Exactly, yeah. Exactly. What are we like? Please don't, mate. Yeah, hey, come on.

10:44That's what they're always saying. They're always saying, please donate. Ramble Patreon.

10:48Luke Moore: This is where you can donate to the Guardian. Yeah, we'll hear Marcus talk about paedophile musicians. You know. Seriously. I didn't... Innocent till proven guilty. Oh, fuck's sake. Jackson. Yeah, I know. But you mentioned the other lot. Yeah, I think you might be doing the price for everything and the value of nothing there. But maybe you're one of my cliches. You may. Back to the Carabao, though, which knows the value of everything. Yeah. Because Fleetwood Town, they're still on for a hundred grand if they come in the final. It's also, I mean, can we also take a moment, David? It's a feather in the cap for Carabao again.

11:20It is. They're bringing the noise every single season. Put the pressure on the FA Cup, man. They are. Come on, repeat that magic then. Come on. I've got mad respect for Carabao, and that's coming from an FA Cup fan.

11:31Luke Moore: Absolutely. Did you also enjoy the fact that the game was stopped after about a minute due to a drone flying overhead? Yeah, there's protocols for this that I had no idea existed. Yeah. So it's written in the FA's rules. Yes. That, you know, if there's a drone spotted, the referee has to stop the game. If that lands on someone, they'll know about it. Ideally, take the players away. What kind of nerd is doing that? That was my thought exactly. What are you doing? The problem is the nerds are taking over the world. That's the problem. Oh, yeah. Who's doing that? They found the drone operator. They did.

11:57Yeah. Oh, really? They found him. Is that a young lad or something? I don't know.

12:00Luke Moore: I haven't released it. He's currently in the Tower of London. I'm waiting his fate. I just don't get these people who are flying drones. Yeah. At least it was in the first minute, though. So the players weren't that warmed up. It was, but watch the game or do something else, Mike. David, this is where we are now. Well, at least the drone operator was somewhat respectful of the game. At least dive bomb someone. At least do something. Touch grass. Yeah, exactly. You don't like that time. This is a deep cut, so bear with me. A long time ago, I think it was in a game in South America. Oh, I thought you were going international, the Balkans one.

12:31No, there was a player in South America League game, a Brazilian League game or something, who there was an owl on the pitch and he just killed it. Yes. Do you remember? Killed it. He just like kicked it really hard off the pitch. And everyone went mad. This is like 15 years ago. Right. Should have done that with a drone. Grab it. I think it's a bit more difficult. When it's lower down, grab it, smash the shit out of it. Get the ball and just kick it up. One of the goalkeepers just absolutely smash it. Yeah, that's it. Definitely do that. And that's worth a goal. 100%.

12:58Luke Moore: Yeah, they would be involved then. Yeah, just don't give the ball to Giogra's. Yeah, they would be there all night. Yeah, there you are. I had a fancy Jay Lynch. You're still there now. Jay Lynch to have done that, yeah. David Bentley would do that that's exactly the kind of viral video David Bentley would do Benters would get a contract he'd be all over it yeah no no definitely yeah what were we talking about? Fleetwood Town I think there was a big upset last night Jay Lynch the goalkeeper for Fleetwood Town who was man of the match he said players took inspiration from Grimsby's win against Manchester United there's the Ruben Amorim legacy you see it's feeding all throughout English football and they did it it was a shame that we didn't see Mikel Arteta with his magnets and tactical because that would have been the cherry on top of the cake.

13:41He can't. He can't. The thing is Arteta is probably the kind of guy who would do that.

13:45Luke Moore: We've never seen him do it. No, because he's up too much. Yeah, that's true. He does all of his work on the whiteboard, doesn't he? Don't forget. I think Arteta, I could see Arteta having the old quarterback wristband with the tactical details on it. You reckon? Yeah, I reckon he'd do something like that. He was, by the way, he was absolutely raging with Dalman. That look he gave him. Yeah, but I think I know why exactly. Well, let's talk about So the sending off happens, what, about six minutes before the end of time. At the end of time, at the end of days, we're just on borrowed time now. At the end of the match, of course.

14:14Luke Moore: So Fleetwood Town, you know, amazing defensive job, you know, it's obviously one all, Jockery sort of bundled one in. And then six minutes from time, Downman... It was one of the weirdest finishes you've ever seen. It was strange, wasn't it? It's such a weird goal. He nearly forgot to do his celebration. Yeah, because he was so confused. That's how sort of strange he was. But after that, yeah, you know, there's a few saves, there was a few chances. is Downman gets sent off for kicking out ultimately is what you'd say at a player I didn't think that was a red card myself I didn't even think it was a kick it was a nudge if you watch it he doesn't even there's no action he's like a push off it's just push off Cole Palmer did way worse on the weekend yeah that was the second year though as in the first one against Fernandes where he sort of properly barges into it but I mean the thing is what do you think about the Downman one?

15:01I've been

15:04it is kind of I mean it depends on the discretion of the referee I guess but it is basically violent conduct by the book you can't lash out like that yeah but you can't say by the book it's a red and then say I don't think it was a red you've got to make your mind up I'm saying that though I'm allowed to I'm not refereeing again so you're saying the laws are wrong then oh they absolutely are I'm infusive by this all the time I think the laws are a mess yeah but that's a different argument yeah the point is does the referee implement the law or not and I think the reason first of all it's a disgraceful challenge on him yes make that clear I think he arguably should have gone for that as well because that was a proper leg breaker it was a Sunday leg meaty yeah you've got to question the mentality of a fully grown man doing that to a 16 year old kid but then on the same side you've got to understand I suppose that he's 16 he's playing men's football he's just got to put up with it but the reason Arteta's pissed off is because I guarantee you he'd have said to him specifically before the game they're going to target you you're young you're you're getting all the headlines, all the ability you've got, you're going to be targeted and you need to keep a lid on it for the game.

16:07And if you can't do that, you're going to get in trouble. And that's exactly what happened. You could see it coming a mile off.

16:11Luke Moore: Was that the moment though? Arteta should have probably said that to him though. I don't think. He said it before the game. I'm sure he did. Well, sorry, as in, but... In front of the cameras there and everything for everybody to see. I'm pointing to when Down goes down the tunnel or he goes off the pitch, Arteta, the look he gives him. Oh, he's just pissed off, isn't he? Yeah, he's just pissed off. Yeah, maybe he should have kept it in the camp. Which adds a bit of fuel to the fire. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if down when he's now, they keep a little bit of a low profile. Well, he's got a three-game ban, so...

16:36That will help. That will help, yeah.

16:38Luke Moore: Right, you're not playing for the next three games. That's the end of it. He's not in the squad. Don't talk to me about it. I think it was just the wrong way to go about this. I think the lad had been kicked all game, and then it comes to one big flashpoint moment with the big, big challenge goes in, and I just think there's a better way to deal after him. Just quickly put his arm around him and just say, mate, get to the changing room. We'll talk after. but to say whatever he did and the way that he did and then the look as well I thought it was really poor and I know he's in the first team and you know it's part and parcel treat him like one of the boys and everything like that but no I think there's a better way to do it there for a young lad I think I agree with that I think Arteta probably won't be very happy with how he responds to it but ultimately in the moment you know you're struggling quite badly against a league two side it's going to be one of the biggest upsets in cup history it must be in terms of league places is one of the biggest upsets ever.

17:28And his emotions have got the better of him. We know Arteta is an emotional character, but the reason he'll be so pissed off is because he 100 % would have told him. And Arteta even mentioned it, I think, after the game. He said, look, we had a chat about, he didn't say specifically what it was, but I guarantee you it was about that.

17:39Luke Moore: Yeah, I, yeah. Because those fucking hairy-ass League Two players who are fighting for everything. Of course. All the cliches about lower league footballers, they're going to have targeted him. I think there's a difference, really. I get that he's a 16-year-old boy playing in men's football, and he's an amazing talent, and this is going to burnish him and make him better, and he's going to learn from his experience, and that's all part of it. I kind of get the principle of how a Fleetwood Town player would want to rough up a kid and intimidate him and stuff. I just think his ways are going about it.

18:12If you go out to... That tackle, to me, looked like he went out to break his leg, and I think that's fucking unforgivable, and I can't believe the referee didn't send him off.

18:19Luke Moore: Which is why I think, again, so is what Dalman did, could it be considered violent conduct? Yes. They both should have gone off. If you want to apply, I just think the referee, a number of the pundits, Andy Hinchcliffe and Joby McEnough, they both thought a red card was harsh. I agree. Fair enough. But the problem for Dalman is he gave the referee the decision. Definitely. Going back, by the way, speaking of Arteta's behaviour, I wonder what you guys make of this. I actually thought it was quite odd and there might be different reasons for it, but the optics look bad. The Marley Salmon gets taken off at half-time after basically making the mistake for the Fleetwood Town goal.

18:57He gets kind of roughed up as well. He does. He gets bullied out of it. He doesn't defend very well. Fleetwood score. I thought it was a bit weird for taking him off at half-time given his age profile and given how much that's going to affect him. I thought, I mean, what are you learning from that? What are you gaining out of that? I mean,

19:12Luke Moore: the sort of cliched, you know, cynical answer is, yeah, but it's about results and if he wants to get through in the cup. But the best will in the world, you've got 45 minutes to go against Fleetwood Town. Well, that's what I was, that's not my view that's what surely the management the management position there should be right you know what you've fucking done you've got 45 minutes to put it right this is what it takes to be in the first team to get out there and prove it I think what he did just kills unless he got an injury or something they might have had an injury yeah I think what he did can just kill a young lad like off quite early and it's just got to be better player care there I think with these young lads and again I know they're in the first team and this is a serious game or what have you you've just got to treat them better you've got the pros got long careers ahead of them you can't just kill them now Yeah, if you're going to be part of Mikel Arteta's aristocrats, you've got to learn it.

19:55You've got to learn how to conduct yourself.

19:57Luke Moore: I take your point, but the young lad who scored the winning penalty is no old-timer himself. He was no aristocrat. No, exactly. 19-year-old. What an interview that was. 19-year-old. I mean, he swore. Yeah. He scored the winning penalty. What an evening he had. Brilliant. A lot of memes and a lot of stuff on social media. You could take the boy out of Belfast, blah, blah, blah. He was great. He couldn't believe it. Their penalties were good. Well, the manager said that they never practiced them. And the way they should... But I think there's an element of it where... Maybe not as a team, but you can see definitely the opening taker.

20:30Luke Moore: But are they under any pressure, Fleetwood, in that situation? No, but it's still a pressure situation. Obviously, they're on the cusp doing something amazing, but the pressure isn't really on them, is it? But it's still a pressurised situation, isn't it? Yeah. The technique of the vast majority of Fleetwood Town's penalties was amazing. That's what I mean. And I think Lawler was surprised at that, Matt Lawler in charge, because he was like, yeah, we've never practiced them, but bloody hell, the way that they took them... You thought you were going to get a result in 90? Huge argument for having penalties straight after the 90 as well.

21:02Luke Moore: Because it favours the lower side. Massively pro that. Yeah, I completely agree. I thought that when he swore in the interview afterwards, it's kind of funny, because you know the Ofcom rules make you, as a live broadcaster apologise for any swear words. Connor, can you apologise for that? So the broadcasters are all trained to have to do it. Oh, they immediately did. Yeah, and so even if it's after 9pm, which is crazy because this is about quarter past 10. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the worst example of it ever, and it happens quite a lot, is when you watch boxing. So you can watch three minutes of men punching the shit out of each other, blood everywhere.

21:37Yeah, it's gone midnight. Horrendous. Yeah, and if they catch the corner man swearing, they have to apologise.

21:43Luke Moore: That is one of those dark things that still exists. He was absolutely mad, yeah. Yeah, no, he was absolutely loving it. But he gets carried away with it and it was real. And that's why people liked it. Yeah, he was like, I thought. The emotions, and they played on emotions and adrenaline as well. And to see that, it was, you could see the joy in his face. Yeah. And that's what I love. There was such a natural joy in his face. What I love, though, when he put the penalty away, he then smashed the ball, didn't he? He was like, like that. And then they were away. And everyone was on the pitch. And you were like, yes, yes, more of this onto the pitch.

22:10The thing that annoyed me the most, I think, about the whole thing was the fact that Portsmouth played Arsenal in the FA Cup at the start of the year at Fratton Park. Got whooped. 4-1. Why does that annoy you? Because it can be done. Fleetwood Town has shown that it can be done. They're much worse than Portsmouth. Just haven't got the minerals, Matt. No, we haven't. Scored an own goal. Let Gabriel Martinet score a hat-trick. Cheers.

22:30Luke Moore: On TV. And he's not even there anymore. No, exactly. He's not even good enough for him. Not good enough for the aristocrats. Yeah, I see why you're annoyed now. He's too up in middle class. He's not aristocratic enough. It absolutely has to be that. Yeah, but Jay Lynch though was the hero, saving that Bruno Gimera's penalty. Paul Penn Paul Penn he also made a great save right at the end against Ben White came flying across his goal yeah yeah yeah just a marvellous marvellous marvellous a great night a great night for Fleetwood Town what a memory yeah and as Paul Merson says I'll have that memory for life they will I think we all will better news for Arsenal though is that I probably won't have it for life okay I probably have five years time I'm probably going to have forgotten about it yeah I know what you mean yeah but we'll enjoy it now yeah better news for Arsenal though is that their under-21s beat AFC Wimbledon last night and have progressed to the next round of the EFL trophy.

23:20Luke Moore: So they're still alive in the Jersey Mike. And you were there. I was there. Were you really? That's how I know this happened. Were you working the game? Doing a bit of scouting? Working. Were you doing that? No, it was a night off for me. Oh, right. I've deserved a night off. I was going to say, they've decided that you're definitely worth doing under-21s against Wimbledon near Jersey Mike. I did see the stadium announced so I was like, you need a hand? He was very good. That's not a comment on his ability. How many people were there? It's a comment on my egotistic nature. How many people were there?

23:45There was over 3 ,000. And why did you go? You just fancied it.

23:48Luke Moore: Well, and also, I think there was a 6 p.m. kickoff. Oh, right. And as it's half term, I think they were trying to get a lot of families. Oh, so you took the boys? Yeah, I took the boys. A few of us did, yeah. Very nice, mate. And what was the score? It was 2-1 to Arsenal and 21. Okay, very good. Yeah. So, shame for Wimbledon. Andy Brasso wasn't there, sadly. That's what Mikel Arteta said. He walked into the change room. He rubbed Max down and said, and he went, good news about the jersey bikes we're still alive we're still alive Ethan Manieri's brother Emerson got the winning goal Emerson Manieri, great name sounds like a Brazilian classic midfielder it does a little bit in part, alright coming up after this Harry Kane is the best player in the world and that's a fact, part of the Englishman

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27:55What was your best standing in Ballon d 'Or when you were active? Well, I won it in 2001. You did, right?

28:02Luke Moore: Well, back to football, everybody. That is the perfect thing to say to Michael Owen. He'd be raging about that even now. Yeah. Poor old Michael. Yeah, he does get a bit forgotten about because of his irritating personality. Yeah, but he did win the Ballon d 'Or. He did. He did win the Ballon d 'Or. And do you know what? I was actually, I know I'm going to part ways with a few people here. I was genuinely pleased for him to get that acknowledged. I was pleased for him at the time. Because I didn't know what he was like. Ways have already been parted quite severely actually. Though I think that, because as he said, when he got given the Ballon d 'Or, it was, I think they had what he described as a secretive photo shoot.

28:38Luke Moore: Yeah, I saw that. After the Derby game or something. He was given this trophy job before a game against Derby or something. He found out to a phone call as well. Gerard Julio. Gerard Julio. Yeah, Gerald Hurley had phoned him. Which is how they should still do it now. Well, because they've turned it into the football Oscars, haven't they? They did it at the Palladium, though, which is a ramble-stumping ground, so... Oh, right. We trod, though. We trod on those boards, mate. Don't worry about that. Oh, we did. Did you have a Louis Vuitton box as well? I didn't, no. I didn't. I was on stage performing, so...

29:04Yeah, yeah.

29:07Luke Moore: Old Louis Vuitton's backstage. Can't wait to meet the lads, as he sounds. But, so, you... Just for the importance of doubt, because you said you're going to divert from a lot of people when you say that. I was pleased that he was... It was almost as if that was his sort of... What am I trying to say? Like a post-cerebraity for him? The fact is that he... It wasn't. It was 25 years ago. Yeah. Well, there you go. He was interviewed by a man who didn't know he'd won it. No, fine. It's not what he wanted. I'm pleased for him that he got onto the stage and he could remind the footballing world that he won it.

29:40Luke Moore: Because I think because of, yes, his personality and other things, you can forget what a player Owen was. And when you're just given the trophy before a game and people forget about it, I just think it was nice for him. Yeah, did you feel sorry for him? And did you think it was nice for him when you were interviewing him that time? Because I don't remember you having that kind of positive opinion. No, come on now. You're exaggerating and bending the truth a bit there. Well, tell me then. Michael Owen gave me about half an hour of his time, for which I'm grateful.

30:08Luke Moore: That's a job in politics for you, mate. Also as well. Also as well. Also as well. And I think Michael would agree with me. As the self-appointed chairman of the strikers union, it was wonderful that one of our own won the Ballon d 'Or this year. Bring it home. Bring it home. I'll tell you what I did think, David, is that, yeah, fine, Spain, you know, you're the best team in the world, but we've got the best player in the world. I was really delighted for Kane. Yeah, same. Come on, you had to have been. I was absolutely delighted for him. I know Gooty said on El Chiringuito, it was a fix. Oh, it's in London.

30:38Luke Moore: Oh, Harry Kane and all this kind of stuff. I was like, I'm sod you. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. He was the bookie's favourite. He was, he's obviously, look, it's not about this, but just as a little bit of window dressing, he's obviously a very, very nice man. Right. His speech was fantastic and you will not find a single person, I haven't found a single person in football that's not been delighted for him. Yeah. He's obviously a very popular guy. Yeah. Also, you know, the numbers back it up. I honestly, I mean, David, you know more about European football than me. And perhaps this is my bias speaking or just a lack of knowledge on my part.

31:08I don't really know why this was a close one between him and Mbappe and Yamao I think Kane, the last year's been head and shoulders It's about that Yamao won the World Cup Because of PR, Mbappe and Yamao But would you agree it's the right choice that Kane to win it? 100%, for me it's not even it's no avoidance of dance, he absolutely is I think it's 73 goals and 65 in the period that they judge it so it's the August until the end of the World Cup is when they judge the Ballon d 'Or So obviously Kylian Mbappe scored more goals than Harry Kane at the World Cup, but Kane's been consistently head and shoulders.

31:38I know Jamal won the World Cup. I don't think you can say at this point Jamal's the best player in the world. Well, Rudri got played in the tournament. Yeah, quite. At the World Cup. But he's already won the World Cup. What's the feeling of Europe about this? Is it people kind of generally accepting of it? I think there's a general acceptance and like, Kane's been unbelievable. He's like the best striker. But look, with Jamal and Mbappe, there's such a great deal of noise around them and a demand to kind of push these two forward. They're both young players and there's a sense of kind of like, just their glitz and glamour around them.

32:09Whereas Kane's just very straight-laced. Yeah, and I guess boring from a PR point of view. But no, look, we're judging what's on the pitch and he fully deserves it. I completely agree.

32:21Luke Moore: I like what you put on Instagram or his PR people, work hard in silence, let success be a noise. I also like that he mentioned a number of his former coaches in his speech. Interestingly enough, I think that one of those former coach as you mentioned actually managed me and it's mad that that's actually true isn't it Alex Inglethorpe yeah and I'm that's mad isn't it I'm so delighted that one of us went on to win this he was touching go for a while and if it wasn't me what have you done and if it wasn't me David I'm glad it was Harry it's really humble of me yeah it's an amazing fact it is true yeah exactly that's it you know you can't deny that you can't deny it you'd be full but anyway would you like to come over for some of your memories of Alex Inglethorpe as a coach?

33:07Luke Moore: Oh, I chat to him, or I certainly heard him talking a lot. And that's the position that you have, the privileged position of being on the bench a lot, you see. I see that a lot. He did quite much of your ability. That's what he wants everybody to do. That's what he wants his foreplayers to do. I was pleased that he mentioned... There's a couple... There's a couple of... Only I could do that. If I don't have to get on the pitch.

33:34yeah but six degrees of separation that's amazing isn't it you know I would be very surprised if anyone in the football podcast community in this country could say they'd also been coached by Xinglethorpe

33:43Luke Moore: there we are must be somebody probably is he coached out at a lot of places yeah probably is the two coaches I liked that he mentioned because he did go out of his way to no I get all the bollocks aside I genuinely like that I like that was Kenny Jackett yes the late great Kenny Jackett former Pompey manager yeah very nice man and I think it was actually pretty poignant for Jacket not to be around to hear that, actually. And also Tim Sherwood, who of course no one had any idea that the role Tim Sherwood played in Harry Kane's career, because he simply just doesn't like to mention it. So the fact that Harry Kane mentioned it himself meant Tim Sherwood could finally get his flowers as a man who played a key role in Harry Kane's career, because again, for the record, he doesn't ever mention it.

34:25Luke Moore: Yeah, I thought Tim Sherwood was going to do a Brandon Block. could go off the stage. There's an old reference for you. There's an old reference. Tim Sherwood gets up and does a Kanye West. Goodness knows what that is. Yeah. Yeah, these days. I was about to say, I think that's a bit hard for an old Sherwood. I don't think Harry Kane should have mentioned Gareth Southgate, though I don't think Gareth Southgate deserved the mention. There we go. Agreed. But wonderful for Kane to have won the Ballon d 'Or. Do you see him parting away in Cirque le Soin in Soho? Yeah, it looked terrible, actually. It looked really bad.

34:55Luke Moore: Is that because Charlie Kane was there? He got a big mention in the speech. Well, fair enough. He's his brother and his agent. Yeah. A miserable character, let's be fair, but he is his brother and his agent. But the thing about the... Listen, if I may link us back to Harry Kane when in the Balander again, the thing about playing the London Palladium, David, is that after their... Take it from us, David. The problem with London nightlife is very, very poor. There's an open late. So by the time you want to find somewhere to go, it may well be that Kane could only find that place, Cirque du Soleil and Soho, to party into the Weesworn Hours.

35:25I didn't like how busy it was. I didn't like how low the ceilings were. I didn't like that Kane was still dancing away in that very nicely fitted suit, which looked quite expensive. The whole thing put me on edge seeing that.

35:35Luke Moore: Did you like that Eric Dyer came over from France? Of course he did. I love that. That's lovely. Yeah, that is good. So well done, Harry Kane. Well done, Bakai Saka as well, who won the Socrates Award, which is given to players who undertake exceptional humanitarian work and show social responsibility. That's not what it's for. That's not actually right. The Socrates Award is for the player in the calendar year who smoked the most cigarettes. Is that right? Yeah. So congratulations to BK Saka for that. Okay, interesting. So previous winners would include Dimitar Berbatov. I can't imagine Saka smoking.

36:10Maybe a little raspberry vape. Yeah, that's definitely much more likely. Wayne Rooney. Some people were saying, I thought unfairly that Saka started limping as soon as he saw the cameras on the red carpet. Did you see it? Yeah, I saw that as well. What's your take? You thought it was? oh come on I'm not indulgent in this so that's your take away

36:27Luke Moore: from the Socrates award amazing no joking aside joking aside he's a faker he shouldn't be so smoking that many cigarettes no that's true no he's done an amazing humanitarian work of course and that's great to see and a lot of players do do that and it doesn't get talked about so the fact that he's been mentioned for that is great because a lot of those players would have done a lot of work as well the fact that he's standing out as being the best of all of them is amazing yeah well well done to Bukha Saka and Harry Kane and everybody else who won awards yeah absolutely there were other awards as well weren't there there were other awards shout out to Alexa Pateas and she won the women's band all for the third time that's an equal record I think yeah and she's playing in London London City Lionesses as well wild yeah right then let's go to a team who are struggling to win any awards at the moment Michael Carrick is going to remain in charge of Manchester United he's going to lead Manchester United out at Stamford Bridge on Saturday after being given somewhat of a vote of confidence by the ownership.

37:25Shall I tell you how the vote of confidence went?

37:27Luke Moore: Go on. He's really popular. This is going to make us look worse. Yeah. He's so popular with the fans, we can't sack him. That line always comes out now. It came out after Ten Hag won the cup as well. It said, oh, the club have looked at fan sentiment. No, sure, you can't decide on who to replace him with. Exactly, you can't do it. That's literally it. There's an international break not that far away. Yeah. I feel like that reaction, I know you guys talked about it earlier in the week, but that reaction to Carrick by the fans. At the end of the game. It was massive. It was. And the way that it switched quite incredibly in unison when Carrick goes down the tunnel and they beat the players.

38:00Luke Moore: I agree with you. I think you can read quite a bit into that. And I just, I mean, the ownership are shit at Manchester United, so they're not thinking this. But if they were actually good owners who genuinely cared about the club and all that, I would like to think that there was someone of them there realising that, okay, Carrick may, at this moment in his career, be not a world beating manager but I mean there's very few on the market at the moment so that's not a slight on Carrick I think Carrick could go on and do good things elsewhere and you know often quote you Lucas the unmanageable club although I say you I think a lot of people have probably said that in recent years I said it first you did yes absolutely put that in the notes please put that in the notes but I think the players are just a disgrace quite frankly a number of those players And I think, just to finish the point, if it was the ownership, it would be like, no, we're not sacking Carrick.

38:56Luke Moore: You're going to have to work with him. How many managers have those players seen off? Yeah, exactly. It's bizarre. And it brings me back to when I think Solskjaer went after the Watford game. And Bruno Fernandes went over to the away fans and it reminded me of this when Carrick was applauded and then the players were booed. And Fernandes made a gesture, like a circle gesture and pointed at the players and said, it's on us. It's on us. Did he? Yeah, yeah. And I think that was after the Watford game. And it's still on them even after all this as well. And just touching on your point, look, I'm going to say, I don't think Ratcliffe, I don't think Wilcox, I don't think Berada really care about Manning-Eighted or Manning-Eighted being successful.

39:35As long as they still pull in the marketing deals and sponsorships and such like that, which they always will because it's Manning-Eighted. It's a big global entity. They'll always do that. I don't think they honestly care that much. I really, really don't. I think the idea that they do really care and they want to see Manning United successful again, or they care about the fans, I think is absurd. We saw at the start of the season as well, before the start of the season, and what's been going on with the ticket situation as well, where people have been sharing it with their family, and then they've been getting their season tickets.

40:05Well, that's just outrageous. That's the club in a nutshell right now. That's the leadership, right? They don't care, yeah.

40:09Luke Moore: So ultimately, of course, it's the leadership, the Glazers and all that chat, right? We know that. And I understand that Manchester United, while all that's going on, it's incredibly unlikely that they're going to mount a serious challenge for the Premier League title, let alone something like the Champions League. So I'm not saying Manchester United are in this mess because of this current crop of players. However, losing like they did at home to Bournemouth in that manner, and the players are not running, they're not putting it. I get that it's difficult when you're at a club where it's just rotting from the head, but I do think the players need to.

40:41Luke Moore: Well, Rooney said they need a firework up their arses. Rooney was interesting. He really, really lit ripped, didn't he? They're pissed off because him and Keane have both been obviously pissed off. Keane's always pissed off, but fine. But the reason they're pissed off is because I think they take it personally when they see how much hard work and dedication they put in. It's no different to if you were a key part of a company or a show or whatever and you left and for whatever reason you see it run into the ground. You think, well, what the fuck are they doing? This is disgraceful. I get the emotional response to it.

41:10And when we say they're unmanageable, I don't mean, oh, they're a nightmare. I mean that there is not a single manager in the world that can successfully manage them at the moment. Actually, I agree with what David said, but I also think that the conversations around who replaces Carrick are basically moot. This is totally irrelevant because there's nothing there that's set up for any type of manager to perform there and to achieve. And even if you look at the candidates, I mean, Antonio Conte's maybe not going to be appointed because he's going to make it too difficult for them. And if you're someone what David says is true, you don't want that fucking, you don't want any of that Antonio Conte smoke.

41:48He's going to call out the hierarchy. You'll get it. Exactly. He'll embarrass them. Yeah, appoint Conte now. You'll get a January and they'll go, oh, by the way, we're operating on austerity at the moment. So there's going to be no, then he'll go to a press conference and he'll launch at them. They don't want that as well. I want that. I'd like to see. Yeah. Why did Howe, didn't Howe leave Newcastle? Because he was happy with Howe, he was having all these players.

42:11was asking for God, he was like, oh, I need a six, I need an eight in midfield. But wasn't he like basically run out of town by like Neuer and people like that? Oh yeah, they were sick of him. They just thought he's a little nerd. He's a gore. So yeah, yeah. But yeah, and United players will just eat all these, them all up. Then this is where it's like, it's a cycle at the moment. I've said before, I put this post out on Exit the day and I said, look, it'll be the same cycle. Training photos, they'll all be happy. Oh, everything's great. Oh, we're learning more about tactics and what have you.

42:41Glazers are going against the coach. They're not running again. Oh, I'm really sorry that the fans are putting out Instagram posts and everything. Just exactly the same. And Luke's totally right. It's unmanageable. It's unsolvable. I don't know what to do apart from get rid of the entire structure. I'm talking Ineos, Barada, Wilcox, everybody involved there. They need a sale.

42:56Luke Moore: Yeah, I think that's probably right. But the Glazers are still there though. Well, they are. They're not going anywhere, man. Like I said, they're bringing money. They'd leverage debt against the club when they bought it, but they're bringing loads of money from the market and then we're having sponsorship. they're not going to sell it doesn't look great does it as well the people you list there you know Omar Barado obviously has he got any link to Man United no he was at City for a long old time and he's got no real link to United Wilcox you know was rated as a kind of director of football but has no real kind of affinity with Man United overall Ratcliffe claims to be a Man United fan but he's obviously a fucking moron a psychopathic billionaire moron and that's not going to help anyone Wilcox is really copping it there was chance against him and don't get me wrong they don't like Ratcliffe they don't like Barado My word, Wilcox is really copping it at the moment.

43:39Yeah, because I think he's probably an easier target. Barad is a bit kind of anonymous, much more anonymous than Wilcox, and Ratcliffe is the money guy, right? So they probably think if they ever pop it in, they're not going to get any players.

43:52Luke Moore: I mean, how do you see this going then, David? Because if Carrick say the results, even if they improve slightly, I can't see him lasting that long because despite what they say about, despite what we may think about, certain people not really giving a damn about the club. They also know that points mean prizes. You know, you get further up the table, you get them on money, you know, get and so on and so forth. I mean, they may have ridiculous ambitions on trying to get a Champions League spot again this season. Right now, that seems very fanciful indeed. But I mean, do you think come the international break, they will ultimately part ways with Carrick, even though that costs the club money?

44:32Luke Moore: They learned that with Ten Hag. They learnt that with Amerim, you know. It's if they can come to a decision. That honestly sounds like the main issue right now. They can't decide who appoint. I think they're looking at Conte, Howe and Nagelsmann, one of those three. And everybody has supporters and other people have, you know, detractors as well within there who make the decisions and they can't decide. So they just say, oh, Karik, you stick with it. This just sums them up. They can't even make this decision. And they're here again. This happened with Ten Hag as well. Nobody could make the decision whether they...

44:58They gave him a new contract. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They couldn't do it then as well. And they're still in the same position. It's an endless cycle. and we can all sit here and everybody can say oh that's the cause that's the conclusion this is the issue we don't know and that's what's so damning about Manning Eider also if you're in a position of authority and you're hiring people in high profile important positions arguably the most important position at the club and you get it wrong five, six times in a row it's absolutely right that people should be pointing the finger at you it's the old adage isn't it you know you mess up after two years you lose your job you mess up after two months you're the wrong person you can't do that over and over again well the man or woman on the street in their job if they kept doing it then they'd lose their job why do money keep happening keep happening with them

45:37Luke Moore: yeah alright then coming up after this let's have a few more slurps of Carabelle looking ahead tonight delicious

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47:59Luke Moore: Yes, Carabao Cup action tonight. Five Carabao Cup fourth round ties this evening. Liverpool host Chelsea. Are we in danger of a Carabao overdose, do you think? Yeah. Be careful. Drink responsibly, the old Carabao. Yeah, there is that. Liverpool host Chelsea tonight, 8pm. Tasty one. It is. Tasty one. And what's good is one of those sides won't be in the next round. So sides like, say, Fulham and Crystal Palace who face off each other, Face off each other? Face off. Face off tonight against each other. Are we going for that game, by the way? You are, to lend your support for the Mighty Whites. No, I'll run the rule over both teams.

48:31Crystal Palace is my local side. Right. I've got no beef with them. They won't be tonight. I like going to see them. So we'll see how we go. But on the Chelsea-Liverpool thing, is it at Liverpool or at Chelsea?

48:39Luke Moore: Is it Liverpool? Yeah. What I find interesting about Chelsea is they are an exciting team. They've got good forward players, as we know. And there's lots of reasons to be positive about Javier Alonso. He's a bit of a good get for them. But they are a team, Chelsea, who, if you put it on them, they struggle a bit. And what I mean by that is, if you look at how Spurs lined up against them, Spurs were the better team. I know Palmer got sent off, but Spurs were the better team. And I don't think I was wrong about Spurs before the game, I have to say that. I didn't think Spurs had that in their locker.

49:09But as soon as they did, Chelsea couldn't really deal with it. Everton didn't really have a go at them at all, and Chelsea were able to win. They obviously scored like five million goals in about the first 10 minutes against Bournemouth, so that was that. But Hull got some joy out of them. Brentford beat them pretty easily actually so if Liverpool can get at them early and put it on them I don't know if Chelsea are defensively robust enough to deal with it it'll be interesting to see how it goes because Liverpool have been pretty good under Riala so far

49:34Luke Moore: well yeah since they lost that game against Manchester City Liverpool have improved a bit and Isak's scoring goals as well he's having actually quite a good season but that Man City game is the only game they've lost this season is it not? yes you're right but when they beat Brighton that was the first game in the league at home they'd won all season I suppose and they had one Champions League game so maybe that's a slightly misleading fact. You're thinking about Fulham again, aren't you? I am thinking about Fulham again. I'd never knew at Anfield. Good as it gets. Liverpool have not been great, but the last few games, you'd say, even though they conceded three against VRL, you think, I don't know, is it too generous to say it's moving in the right direction?

50:11No, there's definitely teams who are on a downward turn and people on an upward and Liverpool are gradually getting better, kind of looking at all his ideas and going, alright, that makes sense. We're starting to click now. And like I said, there's a couple of players, but look, they do need more from Wurz and such. They need other players to kick on as well. It's good to see that Isaac is resembling something like his old self and what have you. We'll see. I don't know. And Chelsea's just lost Gio Pedro for a couple of weeks as well.

50:36Luke Moore: Well, will Danny Welbeck start? Danny Welbeck, yeah. Hopefully for Vish. Vish really wants Danny Welbeck. Well, he is that guy. Indeed he is. Well, yeah, Vish was saying the other day that he should have started against Spurs, which I agree with because they did look a bit out of sorts up top so I'm sure we'll see Welbeck start tonight you would think. It hopes so and you know what Welbeck's like he'd love one against Liverpool. Is Jordan Henderson going to play at Anfield? I mean I imagine he probably will won't he? Yeah. They might give Lavia and Barco a chance I guess. Yeah. Barco's not played much Lavia was in the start of the season and also dropped out there because they've been playing Quezado and Henderson so maybe they'll just mix up.

51:16But it's really, look, it's an absolute mugs game, despite the fact we've been doing this show for so long, to try and predict League Cup lineups. It's absolutely fucking important.

51:23Luke Moore: You might just stick your finger in the air. You knew Jocker was going to start last night. Yeah, well, yeah, that's probably pretty standard, yeah. But I think, generally speaking, particularly Chelsea, it's going to be tough to know who they're going to play. Big Mikey Penders might play. There you go. His Ted Curtis is on loan, so he can't come back. That's a great shame. Yeah. That is a great shame. Staying with the Chelsea things, former Chelsea defender Ashley Coles in talks to become the new Bromley manager. Yeah. Bromley have had an incredible time of late. They've received two promotions in quick succession to League One.

51:52Luke Moore: They recently parted ways with Andy Woodman, whereas Ashley Cole, of course, parted ways with Serie B side Susana at the end of last season. I mean, it should be quite an interesting one. I know that Andy Woodman was reasonably popular with the Bromley players and so on. Well, I mean, he's delivered them from non-league football to League One. And then he won the FA Trophy as well. So he's very popular then. But he's lost his job here. Funny that replacing, like sacking him, and parting ways with him after all he's achieved, and then having talked with Ashley Cole isn't that popular with Bromley fans somehow.

52:31Well, it's funny.

52:31Luke Moore: I mean, Ashley Cole, I think his public perception has changed somewhat since he was a player. You know, Cashley Cole and all that. And he was always seen as a, not a very, he wasn't seen very favourably rightly or wrongly in the public's eyes before now I know he's spoken in interviews since then and he's sort of explained you know his side of that and I have a bit of sympathy but I think now you know you're considering some of the coaching positions he's had you know England under 21s with Lee Carsley he's done his you know he's done the hard work around some of the some other clubs as well he's really put a lot of effort and hard work into coaching and I think you know he's done his doggies and with Sassena it was a bit of a funny one And that wasn't a particularly popular decision with those fans because I think they liked their previous coach.

53:18Luke Moore: And they were a bit like, this is a bit gimmicky because the American owner knew him from LA Galaxy and all that kind of crap. And Cole went in there and it was okay. It was pretty uninspiring. And they parted ways at the end of the season, sort of mutual consent, really. So Cole now finds himself in England saying, well, I'm not really getting any opportunities. It's the old thing of you go in for the interviews and they say, we haven't got any experience. He's like, well, yeah, but I don't think this is about Ashley Cole, though, Marcus. No, fine. I'll take all your points. Well, I just thought I'd look at it at that angle.

53:48You're fine. And Ashley Cole deserves a right to try and find a career as a manager. And if that's what he wants to do, and I agree with you, he's obviously got his badges, worked hard and travelled around and all that good stuff. I'm not criticising Ashley Cole.

54:01Luke Moore: I don't think this is just some sort of vanity thing. No, I'm not saying that. But what I do want to say is that Andy Woodman was at Bromley for five years. He took them from non-league to league one, as I've said. They've had a poor start to the season. They're not bottom. They're in the relegations places in October. You know, fine. But he has taken them from playing teams who, in a lot of cases, would have almost been part-time to league games against Sheffield Wednesday and even MK Duns at Dons and Peterborough and Leicester City, right? And he has earned the right to do that. He has taken them.

54:42All the players have been involved as well. There's been backing from the board. I get that it's not been just him, but he has been the guy who has done almost a complete fairy tale. I'll tell you something now, no one outside of Kent or probably London would have even heard of Bromley five years ago, right? So he has earned the right. He got them there. He's earned the right to keep them there. And I think the way that he has been relieved of his job is wrong. And Ashley Cole is not going to be a popular appointment for all the reasons we've just talked about. I think that's probably a bit unfair.

55:10But you can't blame the fans. I mean, the fans must think it's an absolute disgrace because the moment you get a sniff of success and you get into the Football League and you go up again and you're not happy with how the season started, you just fucking cut the cord. It's bullshit.

55:22Luke Moore: Because even if they were to go down, he would still be there. He'd stay. He's not going to leave, is he? I think it's such a strange... There's no loyalty to him. Yeah, no. Even if they went down to League Two, the fact is, they'd still be in League 2, which, obviously that... They beat Huddersfield in the league this season. Yeah. Huddersfield Town, who were in the Premier League however many years ago. They beat him in the league this season. It's not all been terrible. I just think it's a strange appointment at this juncture that you bring in somebody with the inexperience of Cole for essentially where it's a relegation scrap.

55:50Yeah, it will be. In League 1. And also, do you know what, was it Ryan Giggs or someone? I can't remember, it might have been Paul Scholes maybe when he went to Oldham for that ill-fated... I'm not comparing the two because obviously Cole put a lot more effort into it.

56:03Luke Moore: Which is why I thought I'd say that. Yeah, but Scholes was saying, I think it might not have even been him, but it was a player of that profile, was saying, what was mad was, I had absolutely no way of relating to this situation. I'd only played at the very top level. So I'm not saying Ashley Cole isn't capable of doing it, but I do think it's sometimes underplayed how much of a different world it is to players who've only played at the very, very top level to go and do that. Yeah, I mean, I know Derby can't have a much bigger side, but he was there for a little bit, you know, so. No, I know, yeah.

56:32Luke Moore: But ultimately, yes, I do totally take your point. I hope Andy Woodman gets another job because he definitely deserves one. Yeah. Yeah, indeed. Elsewhere in the Carabao Cup tonight, Manchester City face Brighton. Brighton off to Manchester again in the Cup. The good news for Manchester City is Sheikh Mansour has confirmed that his company has invested a further£100 million into City Football Group. That'll help the appeal. There we go. Is that the irrefutable backing? Anyone thought about the optics of that? How about this? Yeah. I hope Man City lose every single game they play until this is all sorted out.

57:09And I cannot be clearer about that. And I don't care. I just simply do not care how many Man City fans who don't appear to have anything else to do tweet me about it. I just do not care. I'm not going to change my position on it.

57:23Luke Moore: Yes. I just don't think teams should be cheating in sports. And it's as simple as that. Call me old-fashioned. Yeah, exactly. In response to that rant, Sheikh Mansour has put another 100 million and another there's a hundred million more reasons why Man City fans don't care there we are there we go thanks for listening to the Football Ramble part of the ACAST Creator Network friends of the Ramble don't go anywhere keep listening for Ramble Uncut and if you're not a friend of the Ramble sign up now at patreon.com forward slash football ramble lovely thank you very much Luke Moore thank you very much thank you David Cartlidge thank you thank you Cleetwood

58:03The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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