Fizzer me Timbers

0:00We could be nice to each other everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble. Man City, Cup, Liverpool and Sunderland scored late again. It's Monday, 10th November. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm Jim Campbell.

0:24Hi, gang. It's Monday again. Lovely weekend of Premier League action. and it's great to have you all come and gather around so we can talk about it together. Jim, are we the gang? It seems that way, doesn't it? We're listeners of the gang. We're all a gang. We're all a gang, yeah. What that football needs, Jim, is a good... Big community gang. It needs a good dissecting. It does, it does. It does indeed. Before we do that, though, we want to say thank you to everyone who has voted for us so far in the Football Supporters Association Awards, the FSAs, as it's affectionately known. Now, as we said on Friday, we've been nominated again for Best Podcast and we do need your help to defend our crown because we enjoy it but our enjoyment is really rooted in annoying the other people who desperately want to win.

1:04but Rushton's been throwing shade. Has he? He threw shade on X formerly known as Twitter at the weekend. He said that last year's... Max Rushton formerly known as James Richardson. Exactly. Exactly. The new James Richardson said that last year's vote was quote unquote suspicious. Dark forces. Yeah. So if you want to if you want to mug them off as we really do then get your votes in exactly FSA awards Marcus will genuinely Marcus will fuck the trophy again what more can you ask what I mean I pretended to last time you've set you've set you've set the precedent I have what have I got to I've got to go one better yeah if you can if you can get us over the line as you did and perhaps that will then get me over the line so click the link in the show's synopsis and cast it's just a globule gym click the link in the show's synopsis and cast your vote for the football ramble early globule it will take you no time at all and we'll bloody love you for it so please do because it was so good last year yeah oh dear those pen pushers were not happy with us those pen pushers down at City Hall don't like it Jim but they don't realise that we're out on the street with our gun and our badge every single day we're representing the people out here we're the actual foley of the piece we are we're the absolutely a more contemporary reference of it as well we're Will Smith and Martin Lawrence we're the bad boys yeah exactly I mean it's technically contemporary isn't it they keep making them yeah I went to say a Rush Hour reference and I thought no that's still it's still quite old yeah can anyone think of a buddy cop movie from the last 15 years do they still make them I don't know Keystone cop no well anyway some would say Max and Barry are the kind of the buddy movie types of football podcasts wouldn't they they might do but do click that link in the show synopsis it only takes you seconds just seconds it'll mean the world to us it'll take you seconds to reward some people like Jim and Marcus and me who have literally dedicated our professional lives to this nonsense.

3:02All we ask for in return is a few seconds. That's it. That's all it is. Now, Manchester City beat Liverpool 3-0. That's where we're starting our Premier League roundup. Pep Guardiola was celebrating three points and his 1 ,000th game as a manager. What a way to do it, Jim. What a game this was, especially for a game with this sort of scoreline where it was very one-sided by the end of it. But there was so much drama within it as well with obviously Mamadash really saving that penalty. The disallowed goal which I'm sure we'll come on to. I thought it was a really sort of brilliant kind of entertaining barn soaker.

3:37Given how wet it was. Yeah, it was wet. I don't think it could be a barn burner if it's too one-sided though. Yeah. The barn soaker is essentially you can't get the fire going because it's so wet. Yes. Yeah. Is that what you're saying? Essentially. Yeah, makes sense. But at the same time we've all had a nice time as neutral as watching it. I thought it was a really... You're not a neutral in this scenario, are you, Jim? Well, I mean, I would have wanted a draw, yeah, but actually... A couple of injuries in there. Surely that would be neutral if he wanted a draw. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, but he wasn't watching it as a neutral necessarily because he's got a bit of skin in the game.

4:09Sure, a bit of skin in the game, but you can't help but enjoy that type of performance when you're sat there watching it. I thought Man City were absolutely superb. It's very interesting... Were they Susan Perb? They were at least Susan Perb. Susanna Purb? No, no, just Susan. The full Susan. Sue Purb. I felt like it was a very interesting kind of, really the perfect iteration of a sort of modern Guardiola team because it feels like in recent years, the kind of possession-based stranglehold that he likes to have on teams has waned a little bit. And Liverpool actually had slightly more of the ball, even though it didn't necessarily feel like it.

4:45But this does feel like it's another iteration of his kind of dream type of team, isn't it? There's a lot of really good individual performances in there. I thought Nico O 'Reilly shackled Mo Salah really well. Definitely. Mateus Nunes looks really comfortable as a fullback now. There were times where it was clear that he was perhaps playing a little bit out of position, but he's got really good at that. I thought Phil Foden was good. Obviously, Erling Haaland pops up with a goal. He had a kind of a quiet game where he was still effective in a lot of ways. Nico Gonzalez was very good. Just across the board, they look like they are ready to go on one of those kind of characteristic, long winning runs.

5:20yes it is pretty ominous Luke when you see Man City playing like that we know what well at least some most of those players are capable of and Guardiola was purring after the game how could he not be purring after that emotional video tribute was played to him before the game by Sky Sports of all the other managers who had achieved a thousand games in their career Big Sam Ardice Neil Warnock Roy the boy and Nigel Clough Nigel Clough Clough done over 1 ,500 games as a manager. He did more than Brian Clough. It's incredible, though. Amazing. Which is incredible. And what I liked about that was Gualio did seem genuinely quite touched by it.

5:57When Neil Warnock popped up, he was really pleased. He was great. Oh, they get on my... But do you not think, though, that a broadcaster should remain impartial? And maybe that just helped put a little spring in his head. Well, I don't... Do I think a broadcaster should remain impartial? I mean, I don't take football that seriously. So I think it'd be funnier if they started, you know... They opened the broadcast, everyone's got Man City shirts on. Well, I just think for balance... We'll have a little word with Stockley Park. If we get a chance to rub off a goal for you, we'll do it. It's your thousandth game.

6:26Well, maybe. Rub off a goal. Sexy. Unnecessarily sexy in Stockley Park. I'm just flicking globules out there to see what sticks. Stockley Park should not be a sexy place, particularly after the antics of David Coote. Fucking hell. Anyway. You know what? Let's move on. I don't think it extends to the idea that they're going to favour the team. I just think it's a nice I'm saying that if he sees that he's going to think oh yeah that's going to put a bit of confidence in me and the team yeah because Brett Guadagno is famously lacking in confidence in his career isn't he and I think well they have been in recent times I think they could have balanced it out by saying look Arna here's a little montage of you winning the league last season that would have been nice that would have been fair Luke or perhaps they could have said Arna you've managed 316 games yourself that's not so bad but we're going to give you a tribute which is basically a third of the size to make it because obviously the BBC have had a tough week people resigning and all sorts in the spirit of the BBC's tradition maybe we'll give exactly a third of the minutes to an Arna Slott tribute that we give to Pep Guardiola yeah that'd be better wouldn't it in the spirit of the BBC though they'd have had to have made one of them wear a wig for a bit of diversity yeah they probably would have cut it up wrong and mucked it up exactly anyway it was listen it was a great game Man City were the better team for sure yes I did think it kind of rested on a couple of quite serious inflection points though.

7:54Not just the disallowed goal and the missed penalty, but also when Man City scored their third, Liverpool were having quite a nice time at that point. And it felt to me they were perhaps lacking a bit in confidence, lacking in that half a yard of intensity maybe. Oh, definitely with the intensity. Yeah. But they did show before the third that they... Because I think that cliche that's been coming around again more recently about 2-0 being a dangerous scoreline and stuff like that. Fine. People say that all the time. What I do actually think though, and this is a truism, that when a scoreline is 2-0, the next goal is always absolutely massive.

8:27It is massive. And if Liverpool could have scored to make it 2-1, it's, you know, what colour a man set his pants time, right? Unfortunately, for them, Doku did what he did. He was brilliant all afternoon. With his gold pants on. Yeah. His pants were gold. And that was the end of it. But it's simultaneously concerning for Liverpool, but also I thought there was some positives from them as well. I didn't think it was as bad as all that, personally. Well, OK. I mean, when you say that, you know, if Liverpool has scored one or should the equaliser, of course goals change games. But as Wayne Rooney was saying about some of the body language, in particular Van Dijk and then obviously on TNT.

9:09Van Dijk's a bit like that anyway. Yeah. And then Van Dijk sort of, well, not sort of. He very much said to Rooney, who stood next to him, well, I disagreed with you, didn't he? He had a sort of a gentlemanly disagreement about it, and I think that's quite healthy. But that goal that Nico Gonzalez scored, it wasn't just Van Dijk. Because, look, there's this weird thing at the moment where if you criticise or suggest that a footballer this season or in a particular game is not up to speed, then suddenly you're rubbishing their whole career. That's just stupid, right? So what we're saying is any defender who was a bit static like that in particular one of the finest centre-halves we've ever seen play in this country and then a few other players around it that does look like quite a problem to me because we're seeing this and because Wayne Rooney mentioned that and I think he was right to I understand Van Dijk is not going to be having that but it looks a bit soft and you mentioned the lack of intensity this is a thing because last season Liverpool were intense but in a kind of different way to the intensity that Jurgen Klopp brought and I look at this and I something has to change It feels like it's all unraveled Yes it does Completely different team But the Nico Gonzalez goal looks bad for Van Dijk but it isn't necessarily Van Dijk's fault Sure but I'm saying that the players there was a few other players There's another player who used to get out to him quicker Yeah exactly That doesn't and then when he gets halfway out to him he kind of turns his back and it hits Van Dijk who, to be fair, hasn't sorted his feet out properly and they haven't readjusted from the corner being taken.

10:44I think about two or three things have to happen for that Gonzalez goal to go in. It's very fortunate. It's a fortunate goal. It is, but this is... It's a poor shot, really. Fine, but that's just one example. But this has been happening all season. You go all the way back to the community shield. Jamie Carragher was worried about the Liverpool defence. There was concerns. And then as the season went on, they were still winning games and last-minute goals and all that good stuff. but it's look they just beat Real Madrid who I know we might think at the moment this is an inconsistent Real Madrid side but they're still going well well they'd only lost one game up to then they'd won all the other games so they were consistently winning sure and I know they had a what did they drew nil-nil on the weekend but still it was a good Liverpool performance and they are capable of it but it's so inconsistent and much was made about Liverpool's right hand side with Conor Bradley looking around saying okay I'm a good player but Jeremy Docker was playing like I'm unpossessed today and he was absolutely super and he was sensationally good he's also got Salah in front of him he doesn't want to defend which is odd because as Danny Murphy was saying well okay fine they did that last season and it worked really really well but you've also got a different right back in the team last season with Trent and when he picks up the ball everyone goes and drops off so you get more space and I think that I didn't realise how much of a miss Trent Alexander-Arnold will be to Liverpool and I think that's being shown obviously Connor Bradley has other qualities and in other areas better than Alexander-Arnold, you might say.

12:13But again, it was highlighted, why does Salah, or even the manager not tell Salah, right, for the next 10 minutes, can you just help him out? I understand he's not suddenly going to turn into... Also, you get a no change out of O 'Reilly anyway. Yeah. So drop a bit deeper, help out your fallback. Exactly. I agree with that. It just seems a little bit... Derrass is just slightly, not aimless, but it's as you said Jim there's a slight unravelling here and there's a lot of moving parts a lot of quality players that they've got in there they're trying to figure it out and to me for a second you think okay like against the Real Madrid you know the Real Madrid performance in Rocio okay they're making great and then this happens that you can be beaten away at the Etihad I get that but I but Manchester are underrated as well they are and I've you know perhaps been a part of that or thinking that they're not going to get back to it so I really need them to get beaten the next time but I I look at this and I think Manchester City were very very good and as people have been using that word ominous for the rest of the Premier League in particular Arsenal but Liverpool I they're so hit and miss they are and I think actually sometimes things are going fine margins are going against them like you know obviously they lost that game to Man United but they hit the post like about 15 ,000 times was it and Gakpo had another really good chance here at 2-0 which I really think from the acute angle yeah I think it is an acute angle but I think he can a player that good can do better than that and you need him to in that moment what do you make of the disallowed goal I think it's a goal ultimately I don't think that anything Andy Robertson's doing actually impacts the goalkeeper because Donnarumma he manages a dive doesn't he I think if you look at it I don't think there's any point where he actually can't see the ball I think it's the frustration for Liverpool there would presumably be that perhaps another set of VAR officials would have let that goal stand maybe yeah So there's a bit of kind of uncertainty about how this is being officiated.

14:08And I don't know if that would have made any difference. I broadly agree with the points you guys are making, but Man City would have a better team. They deserve to win. But those inflection points, they are kind of interesting to think about because, you know, Liverpool score, you know, Docky doesn't score that. I mean, you can't really say that because Docky did what he did. But I just think that I thought City, I think City are underrated. They've been ignored, basically, by their own standards. I mean, no one ever stopped, no one ever ignored City for the last 10 years or whatever but they started to ignore them a bit this season for other reasons is it just because everyone wants a break from worrying about them maybe yeah but genuinely well we got that break last season yeah for a very defined period and the second half of the season they were brilliant again but could be I mean Liverpool fans would be maybe hoping that that this sort of period of games that we've had I would say stretching back right to the start of the season I think a lot of people would despite the results being better at the start of the season they're thinking okay this is a bedding in period still It's still early days to try and fit players in and whatnot.

15:05And at some point, surely this will kind of click. But I... Do you know what's going to be interesting? Is when Salah, and I know probably one or two others are going to go to the Africa Cup of Nations and they're going to be missing. It's crazy to think this because Mo Salah is, again, one of the best players we've ever seen players trade in the top flight in this country's history. but his lack of defensive capabilities or desires for whatever word you want to use there teams have been targeting it Chelsea did that as well it's an area where people can get at Liverpool on the pitch I think that's like baked into the tactics though isn't it I don't think it's Mo Salah refusing to defend or anything I think they know that to get the best out of him you need his explosiveness and at 33 it's probably not the best use of his talent I just don't think he needs I just don't think he should always be automatically in the team it seems that way at the moment I think he can't play three games a week anyway I mean you know because the amount of football and intense football to me there would be a natural drop off from winning the title I mean lots of good managers Guardia and Ferguson have both spoken about how difficult it is to defend the title because you have this natural kind of inertia yeah Regnier and Leicester didn't do it exactly and that was shameful absolutely shameful he was rightly fired and not enough people talk about that he should have been fired way earlier than he was but Slott has also made decisions that have exacerbated it.

16:28Now, he's kind of amended a couple of them. So a few examples. One would be playing Kerkis. It looked like a deer in the headlights over and over again, despite saying that the players they've signed have been for six years and not for six weeks. Why do you keep playing them then? He dropped Kerkis, brings Robertson in. That has improved him a bit. Dropping Eketika like a stone as soon as Izak was available was a poor decision as well. Shouldn't have done that. For, again, the same reason. He actually came back, said specifically about Izak, I'm not worried about it because he's a player for six years not six weeks well don't play him then don't feel like you have to play him every week and then I think playing Wurtz and Salah seems to imbalance that attacking midfield area and I think Wurtz actually looked a lot better yesterday they kind of got pummeled into submission Liverpool yesterday by City but for a time Wurtz looked pretty good he looked dangerous City had to resort to fouling him to stop him definitely better performance looked better from a wider left position so there is room there that they can improve upon and I think also So the one thing you touched on, Marcus, which I think is really important to remember is that Liverpool, at their very best, can lose away at Man City.

17:32Maybe not 3-0, but they can. And that long five-year-ish period where it was Klopp against Guardiola and City win four titles, Liverpool win one, perhaps they're a bit unfortunate not to win more than one, but City did come out on top. And I just wouldn't write off City because of what happened for a quite a defined short period last season. because I already have Luke I'm buggered I know you're in big trouble don't worry you might as well just forget it yeah and I know you'll forget it yeah yeah of course like you've forgotten fucking Boronin Boronin and the Harry Kane actually went to Bayern yeah or Tuchel going to England but Liverpool and Arsenal have been the big stories yeah don't ignore City no no ignore them at your peril I was really impressed by how they reacted after the missed penalty that can so often be a momentum shift in a game there was not a hint of it not a sniff of it and we need to talk about Docky's goal as well it's a beautiful well I mean we mentioned he was superb and he was man of the match he was in every different metric we've seen him improving and this season it feels like he is one of obviously Haaland you know but he's one of the first names on the team sheet he is now like he's it's almost him being in that starting line up is he's a part of the core of the spine and he's been in and out of the team in previous seasons because of how much quality they have.

18:54But he was keeping Grealish out of the side a lot before Grealish obviously loan moved to Everton. And you knew there was a player in there. Still very, very young, of course. But the attributes that he possesses, you thought this guy's surely going to really explode at some point. And they all clicked perfectly yesterday. Oh, they did. And they've been doing that. We've seen a lot of signs of this season. I remember Thierry Henry speaking about Doku when he had him, Roberto Martinez is the coach but at Belgium and far fewer much less time with a player at international duty and Henri's not sort of taking the credit of producing him as a player but he said that one thing that he did say to Doku was just do one or two fewer step overs and be more direct, be more ruthless, don't worry about how it kind of looks and the flashiness you know, attack that full back Got the pace as well.

19:48Exactly. Inside, on the inside, on the outside. You have it all, mate. And go and do that. Now, of course, again, Guardiola, much more influence over Doc who's playing style than Henry. But taking what Henry said on face value, you can see that kind of coming through. And he was just irresistible. He was. And poor old Bradley. I mean, you know, Conor Bradley's a fine fullback. Don't get me wrong. But when you come up against a player like that. Yes, it's hard. Really hard. And like I say, we already mentioned, he didn't have a huge amount of help. and at his best, you know, perhaps Gravenberch goes over there and helps out but he had a lot to deal with himself as well because City were in that kind of form but what is interesting about that, the players who play in that kind of position is it's actually pretty rare for them to be super prolific.

20:30If you look at, say, if you look at the sort of, you know, you've got Salah at his best who is, you know, Saka at his best probably, obviously is but hasn't been actually for a couple of years now. I mean, Saka hasn't scored massive amounts of Premier League goals last season or this season so far particularly from open play and that style we're talking about, right? So I do think sometimes it goes a little bit under the radar how difficult it is to play in that position and expect it to be consistent over and over again. And if you do think of ones that are, it's real showpiece players like an Arian Robin or a Mo Salah or something like that.

21:00Yeah, maybe, yeah. But even he's not done it consistently for a long time. So I think the coaching point about making him direct is a good one. There are quite a lot of players who are capable of doing it in that position, but don't do it consistently. We can all name them. we know who they are most of them play for Fulham so for him to do that for him to do that was really eye-catching and actually interestingly enough if you look at the other side of the ledger at Liverpool one of the players that perhaps I think is capable of doing that and is super direct if he was to play because it would be Federico Chiesa who is really direct and really positive all the time and isn't quite as flashy in that position but of course perhaps hasn't done it either so it was a brilliant goal it was a real nice capping of of a great performance from City in a showpiece kind of way and it came at an absolutely heartbreaking time for Liverpool because I'm not saying they did believe I'm not saying they would have got anything out of the game I don't think they would have done but at that point that he scores they were enjoying their best spell and it killed them it absolutely killed them dead stone dead it did Troy Deeney wrote a piece recently I thought you could use him as a wide forward no no no very much through the middle he in one of his articles suggested that other Premier League players will start copying Erling Haaland when he guzzles raw milk.

22:16I don't want to see this take off. I was going to say, Luke, can you try and put a stop to this? I'm of the generation who values pasteurisation. That's all I can say. And I've made that clear on Friday. I'm happy to make it clear again. Heat your milk to 71.7 degrees Celsius. No, get someone else to do it. Yeah, cool it very quickly afterwards. And that should enable you to be protected against things like E. coli and other bacteria. It's very important. You can say for the record that if you just buy it in the supermarket, you'll be fine. Yeah, you'll be fine. They do it for you. That's the beauty of it.

22:42it's probably factored into the cost but they do it for you Harland is obviously going to a sort of high quality place where as many risks as can be mitigated are mitigated but I think there might be some sort of like lower league players who really get themselves in trouble trying to sort of do this shitting through the I have a needle for two weeks like sneaking into cow fields and just having a little guzzle and I think obviously a lot of supermarkets have been criticised for selling milk as loss leaders right and farmers are the ones who suffer now if there's a big trend for raw milk farmers will probably go you know what I'm not going to do the pasteurisation it's too expensive no one wants it and we're selling our milk at a loss anyway so we just need to be mindful of it is all I'm saying and if you're a really strong young athlete you can fight off this bacteria a lot more easily there's a reason why they don't say pregnant women to be doing this kind of thing or older people and stuff just be listen be safe where's the camera be milk safe be very milk safe you're absolutely right Troy have a word of yourself yes well I don't think he was I don't think he's he's sounding alive he's making light of it I think he's making light of it but I think he'll make full fat of it soon Coming up after this, Sunland scored goals against Arsenal.

23:56We are back with the halftime show after this break. You're listening to the Chicago Fire on WLS AM 890.

24:07So that sucked. Love that. Sounds like a Simpsons character. Yeah. That was a Chicago Fires commentator thinking he was off air for half time. At least he didn't do a jobby. No, it's true. Very strange accent. Very strange accent. It was a bit, yeah. Did you hear on Match of the Day, which one was it? One or two, that they left the mics on just a little bit. Did they? And you could hear, was it Wayne Rooney was on? So maybe it was, yeah, Match of the Day too. Uh-oh. You know, I think it was okay, but I quite enjoyed it. It was a bit of giggling. At one point, Gabby Logan mentioned I think she said Daniel Sturridge and I was like oh what's that chat and I couldn't quite hear would you like the Saturday one to be called Match of the Day 1 Marcus does that make you feel happier in the spirit of well the weekend we just had I mean World War 1 we now call it World War 1 it was a great war of course it was the great war at the time when you have a second I mean you think about original films as well it was Rambo 1 Rambo 1 they're all retitled aren't they like Predator 1 you'd like them to be retrospectively awarded the 1 status I always respected the spoof movie loaded weapon one which made that exact joke made it did yeah yeah the naked gun yeah naked gun one oh your naked gun three was naked gun 33 and a third of course wonderful stuff we should say thanks to friend of the ramble Rob from LA for sending us that clip well done Rob presumably the game did suck and he was well within his rights to say the first oh he absolutely was you can become a friend of the ramble too search patreon.com forward slash football ramble or click that join button on YouTube to get involved staying with American Things Portland Timbers played their third game of their MLS playoff series against San Diego FC last night.

25:45By this playoff series designed by David Lynch. Surrealist. I still can't understand what's happening. Well, Portland Timbers, they were against San Diego. San Diego won the first game 2-1 over Fizz's Timbers. And then Fizz's Timbers, as they're now known, won the second game after a 2-1 draw. They won it on penalties. So it's 1-1. Fizz's Timbers sounds like a Haribo brand. Yeah. Oh, fizz of me timbers. So it all went to that third one for some reason. That's what they do. Portland Timbers lost 4-0. So sadly, I go through to the semifinals. But presumably, they meet up to do a penalty shootout or something, just to really make sure.

26:24Why not, eh? Which is like in that pre-season friendly Arsenal had. With, I forget who it was. They do it with everyone. All of them. And they're like, yeah, let's just have a penalty shootout. But this is actually a competitive match. Post-season, yeah. now this has still been Portland Timber's best season since 2021 so we give respect to Fizz. So in American sport tradition of course in the postseason you'll get a series of say five games or seven games and they'll play home away home away until someone gets to in the case of best of seven four games. Someone gets bored. So they're doing this they're just doing this way I think they're doing it for the best of three instead of the best of seven.

26:57But you do have to give respect to Fizz because it is Portland Timber's best season since 2021. Great good on him. Jim are you going to give respect to Fizzle? I don't think that's that long ago. I can't believe you're not going to just press the button. I'm not going to. Okay, fine. Looking for that other Mark Lawrenson one, which has been inextricably taken away. All right, moving on swiftly. Sunderland 2, Arsenal 2. Sunderland became the first team to score twice against Arsenal this season. They can be breached. Yes. Not beaten, but breached. I love the way you said that, like Anthony Hopkins in Mutiny and the Bouncy.

27:29They can be breached, sir. Yes, well, Dan Ballard stuck a torpid. up Arsenal's bop-bop, didn't he? Yeah, I suppose you could put it like that. I like what you did. If you were so inclined. We were joking about Granit. I'm only saying what the mainstream broadcasters would say. Not a hint of lube. No, this is FSA-level content, this. You won't get this on Football Weekly. Not at all. Not at all. Just a globule of lube. Not even that. Not even that. Don't put Adiko bludgeoning his goal in, didn't he? Yeah, it was a brilliant goal. This is how you do it, is like you were saying. We were all talking about Granit Xhaka scoring a goal, and it was actually, you know, Arsenal Academy man Dan Ballard who had a fantastic game.

28:06And I was really, really impressed with Sunderland. And I, you know, I mentioned sort of before the game that I think there's an energy to them and a sense of, almost a sense of adventure that means that they're kind of fearless. And one of the things I was very impressed by about how they approach the game is the sense, which I actually find familiar from how Arsenal approach a lot of games, which is they love defending. They're up for that fight. They want you to come at them. You've got to as a promoted team. Well, Lebris has drilled them so well. But not like, I don't think there are many teams in the Premier League that play like that.

28:37They love it up them. Kind of, yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean. Well, as you're against Chelsea, much was made of how they would sort of be on the break and so on. So comfortable. And if, I mean, if Dan Ballard, who was in the thick of it, one end and then up the other end, and go with me on this, I, get him on the plane for next summer. Get him on the plane. Would you not have him on? I wouldn't have him on the plane, Marcus, for a very obvious reason. Why, do you not think Northern Ireland are going to qualify? to dig at Mickey Gray TalkSport's Mickey Gray a fine pro a nice man well not a fine pro in this case yeah I think because you hear him interviewed obviously he's got an English accent he was born here but it's very much a Northern Ireland his mother's a Northern Ireland somebody said the same about Wes Morgan during Leicester City's title winning campaign do you know that Mickey Gray referenced with TalkSport so Mickey Gray who played for Sunderland for many years and he's been on TalkSport for years and years and he is a very nice man he did a good old good old run up at why Ballard should be playing for England no one corrected him Sean Custis by the way who's been at the forefront of tabloid journalism in football for a long time make of that what you will he didn't correct him and poor old Mickey has been hung out to dry by to be admittedly his own mistake but was calling out quite passionately for him to play for England but I see Dan Ballard 32 caps for Northern Ireland we should say it's quite a lot it's quite a lot this reminds me of when I can understand it but the fact is as you say he has a big run up about it and nobody created him.

30:01No, and do you know what? Way back in the day, I was running a mate's house, about five or six of us. My mate's dad was there and it was Gareth Bale making his, I think, his debut for Southampton. The detail is sketchy. I think Gareth Bale played one of his very early games, Forza Hampton, on TV and they looked brilliant and my mate's dad said to his son, my friend, listen boy, I'll bet you 50 quid this kid ends up playing for England. And my mate was like, all right. and all of a sudden sit on the house shook on it straight away bang he's Welsh you silly old cunt great stuff it was a bit like that but I see Dan Ballard as a kind of general George Armstrong Custer character loves beating the charge loves being the thick of it he'll get in there with his men and he'll lead from the front and he just loves being right amongst it and what Sundar were able to do as you guys have correctly said they love being right in there and just making it tough and I do think there's I'm not saying this is a blueprint for how you can play Arsenal because Sunderland have got their own set of strengths and their own set of targets for this season, of course, of which they are achieving so far.

31:11Yeah, but they had the sights on Champions League, they're fourth. They could last a distance. But I do like how it's totally legitimate for a physical team who pack that midfield area to say to Zubimendi, who's new to the Premier League and used to play in a certain way or saying to Marino who's playing, Marino's quite a physical player but he's playing out of position or Trossard who's quite diminutive or even Saka look, do you want it or not? I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it's perfectly legitimate to do that, make it a physical examination. Arsenal are kind of geared towards those sort of games now.

31:43At the back they are particularly. Sure but I think even the smaller players are aware

31:50that they're going to be in a physical battle a lot because that is sometimes the game that Arsenal take to opponents. you know you're going to get it back. But again, Sundern were really impressive in stepping up to that. And even though they didn't have a huge amount of chances, it always felt to me like a second goal was possible. Certainly after Arsenal got in front with two really good goals, I thought, which is all the more frustrating because I think they worked really hard to get that lead and Sundern didn't give a huge amount up. They had a couple of chances they maybe should have done better.

32:15Zubermendi hits the bar, but generally... But the Lefeuille mistake getting caught in possession is basically the difference. And Saka scores because of that, doesn't he? Lefeuille doesn't know where he's going. He turns around about three times trying to find out and doesn't release the ball. It's still a good finish on his wrong foot though, which is where you'd want him shooting from. It's a great finish, but I just think the chance comes from something that's totally unnecessary. Sure, sure. I think it's a frustrating one for Arsenal, Jim, because, well, obviously he's in the game, but the fact is, as Luke's been saying there, you know, Sunderland and yourself, it's a hard place to go, the physical side, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff.

32:46But Arsenal, in the second half, turn the screw and get themselves in front and play really well and they pin Sunderland back and yes, Sunderland defended well reward in the form of an equaliser from Broby at the end. But Arsenal will really rue that because they probably did enough to win the game. And it's that type of game which every team's going to face and every team who wants to win the championship is going to face. We go away to a dogged opponent who equip themselves and your quality shines through. And you think, right, let's get out of there with that three point. A 2-1 win is a lovely old job.

33:21But they just, I mean, because David Rao was called into action a few times and did well. and Brobby's goal yeah I mean he's so so strong in that situation I think both Sunderland goals actually are typical of the things that Arsenal have been very very good at repelling I think possibly Declan Rice can do a bit better on kind of tracking Ballard for the first one but Brobby's strength was absolutely incredible determination it's rare to see Arsenal player put him in that position and I mean Rea comes off his line and I think you could probably criticise him for that a little bit but at the same time you kind of look at that and think that should be there to be won but Brobby's strength is unreal but the way Raya's hands are he's not trying to punch that away he's thinking I'm collecting it so I would say obviously evidently it was a misjudgment from him but Brobby the way he manages to get his foot on that ball acrobatically so it's incredible I think the substitutions from both managers were kind of a turning point in terms of that goal because Sunderland bring on three players and make the team a lot more attacking Arteta responds to that by bringing Christian Mosquera on, which was the only change he made and brought Ezra off.

34:29And I wonder if it would have been better to have someone else on the pitch, possibly even Mugneri, or possibly to have made a different substitution to keep Ezra on the pitch. Yeah, so you can kind of hold the ball up a bit better. And I think that was, maybe this is kind of slightly unfair on Arteta. Possibly that is a little bit of an kind of underestimation of Sunderland. possibly it is him having faith in his own defence's ability to see these games out which is absolutely understandable but ultimately I think that was the kind of shuffle that led to the Suns on the equaliser which you've got to give him credit for Indeed, which will be interesting to see how he then approaches it because does that make him think ah, we shouldn't do that or does he think do you know what, it was a spectacular goal right at the death you can't really legislate for that so it will be interesting to see how Arsenal because they will find themselves in front more often than not this season towards the end of games, how then Arteta goes to close it out.

35:23I think he will probably use his bench very differently in most games. I'd be surprised if there's another game all season where he only makes one sub. Yeah, also, listen, Southampton haven't lost at home this season. They lost on penalties to Huddersfield in the League Cup. Yeah, they'll be good. Other than that, they've been great at home. This will be one of the toughest places to go in the Premier League this season. I think you might look back on it and think this is a great point for Arsenal, actually, in the long term, depending on how things transpire. I know because they can see the late, so it doesn't feel like that at the moment.

35:52But I think, you know, Sandler are good now. They're a good team. And we have to respect that. I would also add that Arsenal's next two games, Bayern Munich and Spurs at home, is a really vital week, I think. Because Spurs have been poor, particularly at home, but away they're not too bad. They've been really good. Yeah, and I think really good is a stretch. They've been pretty good. And I think they obviously are going to give a good examination to Arsenal because they're going to be able to play in a certain way at Arsenal away from home. So, and it will also be interesting longer term if teams do see this as a way to provide a blueprint to face Arsenal.

36:29I mean, it's not that long ago. Man City were playing in quite a weird way against Arsenal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they got a point as well, didn't they? Close to three, yeah. Yeah, so it's... Will other teams take a Leaf out of Sutherland's book and move the advertising hoardings closer to the pitch? Probably. There was chat about that, wasn't there? they made the sort of the space between the touchline and the holdings very very small so you couldn't have so much of a run up for long throws so they moved them about seven feet closer to the pitch spare gaff they can do what they like respect it put them bright on the line then yeah go to a whole hold yeah like five a side like powerly yeah have the fans stand on the touchline like a Sunday game oh dear gentlemen I want to go and talk about Nottingham Forest 3 Leeds United 1 if I may yeah you may Sean Dyche you've got to give him credit there Luke Moore yeah you have I think I did make the Scream 2 analogy on Friday it's not it's turned out it was just a random murder it wasn't a pattern of new things to come so it wasn't a lack of goals was not inevitable it was more like was it more like Glass Onion and yeah a bit more and Sean Dyche's Daniel Craig what's his name again Benny Blanco or something like that something like that so he's the Arsenal player isn't he so Blanc isn't he yeah I'll look it up you carry on anyway perhaps we leave the murder mystery comparisons to one side at the moment but look good win for Forrest Benoit Blanc oh there you go yeah Ben White yeah basically yeah Ben White these are the games which is why Ben White couldn't stay at the England camp because he had to be in Glass Onion to film Glass Onion yeah there's a new one actually new one out next week is there bloody Nora these are the games though this is food and drink to Sean Dyche isn't it a home tie against an inferior opponent you think put them away and they did and you've got to give him credit for that they went a goal down good goal it was as well.

38:15Yeah, it was a good goal. It was a lovely strike. But a lot of chat around Morgan Gibbs-White of late, obviously missed that penalty against them, Graz, in the Europa League. Got his goal here, though. A lovely little header. Yeah, and Dyche has been... If we take Dyche on his word, which some people may say is a foolish thing to do, but if we do, the way he's been talking about Gibbs-White in the press, certainly, has been really trying to encourage him and get his confidence up because he has looked bereft of confidence and if indeed the Crystal Palace fans are right, you can understand why his confidence has been a bit shaky.

38:45but Dyche that's the thing he's got in there and he's trying to give everyone a bit of a G up and so on because he can sort them out defensively or at least make them a bit better defensively how do you unleash that attacking talent because that's something that Dyche has maybe not had previously much has been made of that and it's not when you think of Dyche you don't think of teams expressing themselves you certainly don't think of a guy who has kind of license to sort of pop up where he wants and do what you like it's very structured isn't it very rigid but played his best football Morgan Gibbs White under Nuno Espirito Santo so someone again who plays that kind of style so I think Dyche is almost trying to sort of speak it and will it into existence that Morgan Gibbs White becomes this and obviously trying to coach him and fill him full of confidence and he said look he can get back in the England squad huge competition for places there but getting a goal and seeing him strutting stuff a bit more that's something we all want to see but a good win for Forrest though Luke and as I say these are the games where you think yes they're the one you put those away and fears of relegation if that still continues because, you know, Forest, they're still 19th but only a point from safety now.

39:53It's a bit early in the season. It is early in the season. They've had a really bad start. But very welcome three points though. Yeah, and I think it's another feather in the cap of Elliot Anderson because I've been pretty impressed on occasion so far this season with Sean Longstaff and particularly Ethan Ampadu in the middle of the park. Longstaff's been really solid. He has. Ampadu got a knock to his knee at one point which it seemed to kind of not upset him but kind of put him off his rhythm a little bit he didn't actually come off in the end but I'd be surprised if that wasn't something a little bit more serious than it looks like but Anderson and Sangare obviously scored as well were both excellent in there and that's such a good platform for Gibbs White that's the thing if you look at Gibbs White's numbers in terms of goals and assists they're not actually that high I know he's been good he's been improving and he's been good recently but you've got Anderson and Sangare to provide that platform for you and even behind that you've got Murillo and Milenkovic who are just two centre-backs who love to defend There should be a bit of a platform there for you.

40:45Dan Andoy looks like he can really stretch the play as well. I feel like it's a team that all the ingredients are there. They've just been coached by someone that didn't fit for a very short amount of time off the back of a weird act of self-harm by the owner and they're just trying to find their feet again. That's really the situation we're in. So if you look at it like that, Deich can't believe his luck because the players he got to work with. And then over and above that, of course, a Murray Hutchinson comes on. Yeah, good substitution. Basically changes the game and takes it away from Leeds, provides the assist for Gibbs White's goal with a great bit of play.

41:16Hutchinson, you know, gets out of Ipswich playing a lot last season and gets his move when they get relegated. So to me, it feels like all the ingredients are there, but I think they deserve particular credit for going a goal behind and reacting because the goal was a goal of great quality from a player at Leeds who's not played as much and who's been coming for a start and then scores with a great finish. So for them to bounce back from that was also really good. But I think Forrest, like I said, they've got all the ingredients. they've got they should have a really good home atmosphere as well I know at Forest it can go either way they're very unhappy with Ange understandably so I would say but they can provide a platform for them as well so their home form will keep them in the Premier League basically and it was a big win because you lose that game to a fellow sort of not a struggle struggle it might turn out to be a six pointer right yes indeed but Leeds United though they I mean they've they've got 11 points they're a point from safety they've the last five games they've lost four.

42:11So not in the best run of form, having had a reasonably decent start. I think we're still, we've got the hangover from the previous two seasons saying, well, they're a newly promoted side and they're not utter shite. Do you know what I mean? That's not how I think Leeds United fans are probably thinking. And some of them are a little bit unhappy with Daniel Farker. And Farker's in the spotlight this season because not had a great time in the Premier League. You know, we know him from his Norwich days and so on where his teams have struggled a bit. And he said in his post-match, it's quite normal with regard to the Leeds fans moaning he said the fan base of Leeds United is very emotional and I thought that can be read either way but he's also been in the spot a lot for being officially the hardest manager in the Premier League as voted for on the Football Rambles true that comes with its own pressure doesn't it he also said I judge our season so far we have 11 games we have 11 points it's a point average that we need to stay in this league and you think to yourself oh okay so yeah I mean if you if you were picking up a point a game you've got to look at the dynamic of the league generally though because it's been a lot lower in recent years because some teams have just been totally cut adrift.

43:13If it becomes competitive or more competitive than that because the promoted sides are doing better and this may prove to be moot because we'll see what happens with Wolves. They've still only got two points. They could be completely cut adrift and the same thing will happen again. But he's right to say that generally speaking 38 points will keep you in the league. I mean 15, 20 years ago it was 40 points people would talk about all the time. It's not been that for ages. I did the maths a while back I think and it turned out to be about an average about 32, 33 points you need. It's not that many.

43:42No. He did say, in my dream version, we are never in danger. We cruise easily, always with several points ahead. I don't know how helpful that is. It's always so camp, isn't it? Partly Marcus's delivery, but it's always so camp. Yeah, but I mean, that's right. Does that mean that they win the league? Yeah, we cruise easily, always with several points ahead. I think he just means he wants a little, a lovely little buffer. Yeah. A little Michael buffer between him and the drop zone. he wants a little buffer in his dream little buffman's bridge do you remember by the way before you go to break do you remember back in the day it used to be so undramatic in the Premier League we didn't have the real grasp on the entertainment factor they didn't even used to put the dreaded drop zone line in the Premier League table on Sky Sports until about February now they do it all season that's true just to remind everybody what's at stake coming up after this there was drama at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium

44:41Spurs 2 Manchester United 2 oh Richarlison he thought he'd won it didn't he he got very emotional when he scored what a lot of people myself included thought was going to be the winning goal I was pleased that he scored but then Matthias De Ligt had other ideas yeah he what an ending he sort of seems the ending for two calamitous teams that's exactly what he won we joked about them owing us some entertainment after the Europa League final and it sort of eventually did provide that, didn't it? But Richarlison just sort of seems cursed, doesn't he? That like kind of happy moments never seem to last very long before something seemingly ridiculous happens.

45:18I think the real story from this actually is that, you know, Man United are now five games without losing. They snatch a... They kind of... They look like they're going to win. Then they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and then they snatch a draw from the jaws of defeat. I mean it is an improvement Steven Spielberg absolutely yeah but it's the sequels Jaws 1 of course Jaws 1 starring Jaws the Shark yeah obviously you know you didn't get paid it's pretty so bad in the 70s yeah terrible it's terrible Sharks should unionise really yeah yeah but I think it is progress isn't it and perhaps it's the lack of kind of European football that is starting to tell for Man United they're getting a bit more time on the training ground now they you know they would have wanted to win this game, obviously, but if you can't win a game, then don't lose it and they've got a lot better at that.

46:09If only that fella had said five games unbeaten, he'd be having a lovely haircut right now. He wouldn't. It'd be completely irrelevant, wouldn't he? He doesn't want that. He's caught between two. This guy's done a pack with the devil, the red devils. If he gets his haircut, everyone forgets about him. That's true, yes. So maybe if they do win five on the road, you go, actually, it was away games. Do you know what it's like? It's like Arsenal Fan TV, now AF TV. They profit off Arsenal being back. sure yeah right so he's done a deal with the devil there the United strand because as soon as he gets his hair cut no one's going to remember who he is very true well I mean as Jim said you have to give Manchester United oh they're definitely improved credit but even the character of the side I mean when Liverpool going back to that game because a lot of people maybe think that was a turning point perhaps it was before that but it was one all they managed to find a winning goal which seemed unlikely we've seen this a few times recently here they concede a 91st minute goal from Richarlison they're 2-1 down and they're down to 10 men they manage somehow to get out of there with a point I mean you saw the Spurs fans when was it Mbuma who won the corner that would then come in and obviously delict the score when he tried something and he goes out for a corner the Spurs fans behind the goal they were all sort of celebrating and then delict scores and very much enjoyed that because again you thought to yourself well that's them they're done they also went behind against Forrest and scored late as well exactly yeah exactly the same pattern there's no way players are not playing and believing in the manager playing for and believing in the manager I should say when they're doing stuff like this exactly and that's my point so tactically and sort of playing style I think they have improved you know we've seen in Bumo in particular starting to strut his stuff a bit more we know he can do it it was always a matter of time really Kunja we've seen flashes you would imagine he'll he wasn't right against Spurs no but you would imagine he'll provide more going forward you know there's some other players there Cesco great shame for him coming on and going off injured new to the league da-di-da-di-da you expect them to kind of improve and with Amarim's tactics are they going to really start to see a little bit more fruit but certainly the character of the side Luke what you're saying there you can't question it now I guess the other way of looking at it because they've definitely been improved there's no doubt about that but the other way of looking at it is that Spurs are basically there for the taking at home and United also went a goal ahead.

48:30And Spurs have got big problems with the big showpiece signings that have come into the club this summer. I mean, Xavi Simons again, anonymous. Kolo Moani, I've never seen a player that cost 90 million euros look so poor. I don't know, I mean, maybe he needs a bit of time to bed in, but he's starting, I mean, he's starting games for Spurs and perhaps they're not playing in a way that's conducive to including him in the build-up or anything like that. But I mean, against Chelsea, he was appalling and against United again he's not done anything either and been dragged off again at half time for Odeber who's obviously a younger kind of wider forward who was able to provide an assist in the game they scored two good goals they did they did they were better than they were against Chelsea but I cannot tell you how impossible it would have been to be worse than them that game against Chelsea was one of the worst games I've ever seen do you think I mean I would probably be guilty of this do you think that maybe some people perhaps myself included overestimated what Frank was going to do when he got in there.

49:30It's always, do you know what, it's a decent point because it's always tempting to think he's a brilliant manager because of what he's done at Brentford. But of course, that's a very specific set of circumstances. It is. And you completely reset everything when you go to a new club. It's a much bigger club, of course. And it wouldn't be the first time we've seen a manager with a great reputation go to a much bigger club and not be able to bend it to his will. I said to you before, I think Spurs were in a false position in the league. they've started to drop a bit they're playing Arsenal next which will be a really interesting game because I'm talking about much better away from home you know you look at this Spurs team and you think they're capable of quite good things as I said particularly away they're capable of terrible things if they finish 6th or 7th maybe about right I'm surprised you said I mean because if you're the 6th or 7th best side in the Premier League given where they came from last season exactly I think that I mean it is improvement there's no doubt about that I'm not even ascribing a value judgment to it.

50:27I'm saying that to me at the moment looks about right. Okay, yeah. He's not very long into his tenure as well. You know, very, very early days and also I think actually because they finished in such a low position last season, you know, does he get a free hit in terms of where he finishes this season? Because it's going to be improvement, isn't it? If they miss out on a European place, there will probably be some questions asked but I think they'll be fine in terms of that. Yeah, I think also as well you're comparing it to what they do in the Champions League as well. They've had a fairly kind start in the Champions League.

50:55and they'd have probably wanted... Had a really kind start in the Premier League. Yeah, indeed. And I think that, as you say, after the international break, they've got Arsenal, they're away to PSG as well. Yeah. But they performed really well against PSG. Yeah. Well, I mean, when we talk about early days, I mean, that was the earliest of the early days. Yes, it was. So, nothing to go on, Luke. I know what you mean. It's hard to predict because they are capable of beating Man City away. Yeah. We just talked about how Liverpool found that so hard. They're also capable of being, looking like the worst team in the Premier League.

51:23So, who knows? Well, yeah. I mean, Ruman Amarim also said about them, we have a lot of problems. We need to do better because the game was there to take. It's always a quote from Amarim after every game, no matter what result. He absolutely loves it. But the fact is, he was saying the game was there to take. It's echoing your thoughts about Spurs, Luke. Yeah. That he's a bit disappointed. Oh, I think from Amarim's point of view, you know, he will look at how poor they've been at home and say, look, you know, this is a win for us. It's got to be. But despite the sort of perceived negativity of the quotes, Amarim's definitely got the bit between his teeth now you can see it and I think they are turning a corner well you since Jim Radcliffe said he's got a three year stint ahead of him well that's given him the confidence he needed a man who will blow the confidence into any man while sucking the joy out of all the employees yeah now if you know what I mean oh before we talk about Wolves you see that Eric Ten Hag is reportedly holding talks with Ajax yes that'd be nice Jim get him home this feels bring him home so carry on I was just enjoying the song okay the current interim manager at Ajax is Fred Grimm nice the wonderfully named Fred Grimm you remember him from back in the day I do he was on the bench for the 95 Champions League win yeah basically their perennial kind of backup keeper to van der Saray yeah the Grimm keeper I was going to say he doesn't have to change his name on social media at Halloween to something vaguely spooky he was quite I mean as reserve goalkeepers was in Europe go in the 90s he was quite famous.

52:55Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. It was just lovely to hear his name. Yeah, I completely forgot about him. For that reason. Very much the Peggy Arfex ad of Germany. Oh, now you're talking. It's a... Well, that's harsh because he did... Peggy Arfex had barely played, did he? Something like 34 games in his whole career. Fregrim played over 100 games for Ajax, so quite different. Yeah, and also Fregrim looks like the older, more evil tech bro brother of Arnest Lott. yeah agreed lovely one that yeah Peggy Alfex said active between 1989 and 2005 41 professional games it's a great job 21 of those for Leicester what a great he had a good stint for Leicester for a long while 21 games yeah but I mean that's where he played most of his stuff that's a lovely old job that's great lovely old job some big names on the big clubs on that CV nice work if you can get it and don't have to do it yeah specifically yeah now let's end the show talking about Wolverhampton Wanderers sorry Wolves they were gubbed on the weekend again but it looks like Rob Edwards will be confirmed as Wolves' new manager.

53:56Rob Edwards has been doing very well with Middlesbrough this season in the championship currently second behind Frank Lampard's unstoppable Coventry City. Saturday they gave him permission to speak with Wolves because they just thought this is going to happen isn't it? Which meant he was absent for their 2-1 win against Birmingham City. It shows how good they are without him there. They still win the game. They just wanted to show him. This is how good it can be. Don't forget it. You enjoy winning games. Rob will stay here then for growing up. This is it isn't it? I think it's such a different kind of scenario however well he's he's been doing with Middlesbrough going into Wolves with two points after this many games is it's just an absolute battle straight away I mean they are I mean they're they're eight points off of you know off of being out of the relegation zone and actually more than that because their goal difference is terrible so it is this is a big gamble for Rob Edwards as much as it is Wolves it's a cruel cruel decision he's got it is because he loves Wolves played most of his games there coached there coach there caretaker born just down the road half an hour away or whatever in Telford and he clearly feels like this is an emotional decision I've got to make because if I do save them I'll be a legend there but he's on to a great thing at Middlesbrough and what's interesting as well is I mean this with the respect of Rob Edwards it's going to sound like I'm disrespecting them I don't mean to it also does show in a way kind of how difficult it probably has been for Wolves to attract a manager because Rob Edwards record in the Premier League.

55:21He did an amazing job to get Luton there, but his record there was terrible. They didn't ever really recover from being relegated. And he left, not under a cloud, I don't really know how Luton fans felt about him, I presume they still liked him, but he left because they were in a disastrous state. Yeah, that's right. And they've of course been relegated again since then. So he's come to Middlesbrough, he's re-built himself, he's doing a great job there. Middlesbrough have got absolutely every chance of being promoted to the Premier League on his own terms, under his tenure. Yeah, yeah. shortcut it because of this presumably a little bit of money is involved of course as it would be in the Premier League but also this emotional pull that he feels it can be a really cruel game sometimes well it can be I mean and if you're a Wolves fan you're thinking well that's not a particularly inspiring appointment because you say he's only at least he's one of us at least he's one of them because Gary O 'Neill pulled out the running to return as Wolves manager I don't want to talk about this and he pulled out the running because of a combination I mean O 'Neill probably the main thing was the structure at the club and it wasn't yeah he just thought no I don't fancy this for whatever reason.

56:20He's probably looked at the Premier League table. Well indeed yeah, I feel for him. But also the Wolves fans were just not happy about the idea of gag returning. No. He's obviously sacked because he wasn't doing enough. He's still the front runner for the Southampton vacancy by the way, which will be a signal for you. So just so you know, I've posted a comment on his most recent Instagram post saying please don't go to Southampton, Gary. I also DM'd him on Instagram saying don't go there. Yeah. He's not read that one. He doesn't follow me or anything. But I'm doing everything I can on behalf of Portsmouth fans have had to stop this happening.

56:51It's rare you hear me say this, but I do want to put it on the record. To the Southampton fans' credit, they don't appear to want him either. So nothing good will come of this, Gary. Nothing good. You know where you stand with them. I'd rather have him at Pompey, the way we're going at the moment. We probably wouldn't get him. No, he wants a better job. Rob Edwards, though, in fitting in sort of recent football fans' parlance and spirit, Some people, Middlesbrough fans presumably, have been calling him a snake. And others are rat. Yeah. Yes. They're the go-to animals at the moment. Yeah. Snake and rat.

57:25I mean, they're all-time classics, aren't they? So I think the rat... Untrustworthy animals. A rat's a new thing. A snake was always the one. Yeah, but I think there's a very different... There's a nuance between these. So to me, the rat thing has evolved into someone who's just been treacherous, just been a traitor. And that's come from a rat jumping from a sinking ship, presumably. Yeah. But the snake was always seen as being underhand and secret about it. And Rob Edwards, as far as I've seen, there's not been secret about this. I think a snake is the worst one because, you know, they say, you know, a rat will leave a sinking ship.

57:51Well, a snake is deceitful. Yeah, a rat is kind of like, ah, it's going bad, I'm out of here. Yeah. So as you say, maybe a lack of loyalty, which is obviously not good. Yeah. And the snake thing goes back to when the snake tried to get Eve to eat an apple. Yeah, exactly. That's where it comes from. The reason we're in this mess. Yeah. Exactly. What, Rob Edwards? Well, technically all of us. Yeah, okay, right. I'll tell you what though, what he should do is you go to the town square in Middlesbrough a little bit of Bon Jovi always I will always love you yeah that's what he used to and I think yeah I've got the wrong line oh yeah what is he saying that I'll be there yeah he's saying yeah and and when I die you'll be on my mind and I'll love you always bit dramatic Rob yeah you're going to go to Wolverhampton mate and also this is your answer for everything Marcus get down the town square and see a bit of Bon Jovi well let's hope he's not wanted dead or alive by those Middlesbrough friends one for you Marcus the other night on CBeebies Bedtime Stories you did that one with your kids I don't John Bon Jovi was reading it God well I'll do it now yeah wait get involved yeah probably get it on the iPlayer might bloody have to yeah thank you very much for listening to the Football Rabble part of the ACAR's Creator Network we're back tomorrow for the mailbag so get involved there and remember to click the link in the show notes and vote for us in the FSA Awards best podcast of the year come on let's make it let's make it back to back wins yeah so nice we've got to do it twice damn right if you do want to find a place to vote on X you can do it through Max Rushton's account we'll post that Max Rushton tweet on the dressing room wall that's all the motivation we need isn't it indeed thank you Luke thank you thank you Jim thank you and up the FSA award