Get that meat inside you

0:00You see a mousetrap, I see free cheese and a challenge everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble. England have qualified and Sweden are eyeing up Potter. It's Wednesday, 15th of October. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm the Dishan of Hunter-Rajer.

0:26Ease. Come on, Vishy, we're qualified. Ease. Save it for the big one. Yeah, okay, fair enough. Ease. Easy, easy, easy. Qualified, qualified, easy. Poor by you, Vish. I just want to save it for the big ones. We did say that the other day. We don't get any big ones. We are going to get the big one. They don't come much bigger than that. Yeah. You know, I get it. We're the first European nation to qualify for the World Cup. Not considered a goal, are they? Was it because we annexed ourselves from the rest of Europe? It's not for me to say. Possibly. Also, Vish, if you don't want to do an easy for a 5-0 steamrollering of Latvia in Riga, I'm starting to wonder if you're falling out of love with the game that's my concern you're either for us or against us yeah exactly if you're not easy with us you're easy against us well Vish let me start don't direct this at me I'm happy as well let me start by saying thanks to friend of the ramble Joe McCormick for giving us that intro line if you want to submit an intro line and become a legend like Joe for a future episode then become a friend of the ramble sign up for just five dollars a month you'll also get an extended edition of today's ramble on this week's Ramble Uncut.

1:31Vish is going to give us the real story behind Roy Hodgson's England resignation. Is this an exclusive? Is it something you're using? No, I think it's been written about by... When are you going to start using your journalistic chops, do you think? Not in football. Not any time soon. Is it like an inside story you got from, say, the Libero lads or something? Well, I mean, if you'd listen to Monday's show, you'd hear where I got it from. And if you listen to Uncut... You'll hear more. You'll also get the story. Head to patreon.com forward slash football ramble to get involved and hear that story and so many, many more nuggets.

2:06More nuggets than a McDonald's, for crying out loud. Now, let's go to it. Latvia zero. England five. Five-star England. Five stars out of five. Lovely old job. England have qualified for the 2026 World Cup. Sweet Caroline, Luke Moore. Things are good in England HQ. Q. Yeah, specifically that part of this nation is doing really well. I think we should make that absolutely clear, abundantly clear. What a location to do it in as well. Lovely trees. Lovely trees lining the pitch. Beautiful time of year for those types of trees as well. I'd say so. We had everything we wanted. It was a feast for the eyes, wasn't it?

2:43Yes. Do you think West Ham fans are watching that and being like, see, it's not bad, is it? Maybe. Yeah, or maybe Nottingham Forest fans say those trees aren't tricky enough. I was referencing the running track. I know. And the fact that you couldn't see them on screen but the England fans were so far away that apparently it was very hard to make out. Thomas Tuchel specifically requested that. Yeah. So I want them as far away as possible because I've got into a completely unnecessary and ill-advised row with them and I want to continue that as best I can. There was a bit of banter though, back and forth, wasn't there?

3:18There was. Are we loud enough for you, Thomas? He gave him a little nod. He loved it. The commentators totally misread it though. Oh, did they? They were like, oh, the England fans just, you know, asking Thomas Tuchel for a tune. And I was like, yeah, and we know why. And he's like, yeah, I wonder if he's got anything for them. He's like, okay, you get there quicker. It's not quite as back and forth as you assume it to be. Also, a bit of quote-unquote banter between the England band and a German football manager. He's got Charlie Nicholas levels of banter. No, it wasn't just the England band. I think it was all the England...

3:51The England fans were in good voice. Whatever you say, The away fans always are. It's a complete missing of the point. Not all of the away fans. England away fans are always really good. Yeah. So there's nothing new there, is there? It's not a response to what he said at Wembley. It's the fact that England away fans would have been that noisy anyway. No, but they were responding to that, as I say, by some of the chance. They were, yeah, they were. And Tuchel acknowledged it in a way. But look, we'll get to Tuchel and the mood in the camp and so on. Let's talk about the game itself. England now scored 13 goals in their last three games.

4:21They've certainly upped it after slightly disappointing performances against Andorra. And even the games before that, if you think about how the qualification campaign started at home against Albania, it was 2-0, it was a little bit stodgy, a lot of sideways passes. Big Dan Byrne, who was playing centre-half that day, seemed to have a lot of the ball and was going, OK, you can give it back to me, fine. But when I give it to you, I am hoping that somebody goes on and does something with it. That's me a bit done. That's the bit I do. That's done now. so you go I shouldn't have to see that ball so quickly back to me you know I'm not your dad you don't have to keep coming back to me for this exactly although he does look like a dad indeed especially some of the other players in the side where he's about a foot and a half taller Miles get off my shoulders play left back cross it now so yeah England what they've certainly done in these last two or three games they've really turned the screw fish they're looking more potent in attack they're enjoying it it's more free-flowing you might say yes the quality of opposition is not great so it's unlikely they're going to play like this in the heat of North America against say Spain or Brazil but right now 5-0 against Latvia it was a good performance all things considered yeah it was very professional it was the most 2-0 of 5-0 you know they managed the game really nicely you've just taken away three goals yeah yeah but in terms of you know they were very comfortable and I don't really think they got out of third gear to be honest.

5:53I thought the... But I'm saying compare this to the 1-0 when they beat Andorra Way for example. This was a far cry. Yeah I know but I mean this in a good way. Like it was just very professional. I didn't necessarily see anything that was like wow they're properly onto something here. At least take one foot off the ground Vish. But I'm saying I see a... Could they go to Latvia? In fucking... Latvia's equivalent of Crystal Palace Stadium. Do you want to do all this again? because that is not what Marcus was expecting. No, I sense that because I can see his reaction. Do you listen to nothing? Do you not read any of the briefing that Marcus gave you?

6:26I can see the green in the plant slowly fading behind him. Marcus is looking at his notes and this is not what we agree with. This is not what the organisation agrees. It's not what the steering committee agrees. We'll get him out of the way and then we'll come to you. I mean that in a positive way in that I feel like something we talked about on Monday and also on the mailbag was everyone knows their role. And not only are they sticking to it, they're adding their own little flourishes to it. I thought Anthony Gordon was very good because he was very Anthony Gordon with the role he was given.

6:54I think sometimes players, again, we've spoken about this, but players come in for England and they do try and do an impression of what the manager or what an England team wants slash needs. And I think every player on Wednesday night performed their role in the way that they would want to do it, which is only a good thing. Yeah, but come to me now. Luke. oh my god they were brilliant yeah it was absolutely first rate across the pitch from back to front I was stunned yeah that's the stuff right should we do the Wales game now Luke are England on the verge on the verge no no no they're the only team on the verge at the moment from Europe well indeed yeah if we stop it now now right now we've got to play US Mexico and Canada that's it yeah oh no probably the other nations as well Argentina oh yeah Cape Verde that's back oh Cape Verde as well.

7:46Uzbekistan? It's just Europe we've qualified from before everyone else. It's not the rest of the world, right? Jordan. I'm not worried about them. Brazil. Yes. That's a lot of rubbish though. But if we stop it now, we've got a much better chance because no one else from Europe will come in. I definitely agree with that. So pull the drawbridge up. Ah, it's only 32 teams. Yeah. Do a kind of UEFA-style Brexit. Yes. Don't let any other European teams in. Right. And then off we go. And off we go. And then we'll sail over to Americans of Small Boats. Australia have qualified as well so we can give them a shooey take them ages in a small boat yeah Pacific Ocean's a cruel mistress we've got to go the other way around oh we've lost a day from Australia oh from Australia come on sorry I thought you meant from here this is I'm doing top level Charlie Nicholas bantering you've got to keep up forgive me oh no you earn a day if you go that way yeah that's true Vicious doing his own thing extends the tournament even more can I wrestle it back let me wrestle it back you're desperate for me to do so so I will yes I understand what Vicious is saying and I totally get it and I really like the point about these players need to occupy the role they're best at rather than the role that people expect of them in certain cases and of course they're only playing Latvia they're only playing Wales they're only playing Serbia or whatever what's happening now though is England are knocking over with abandon mid poor to mid range international sides by playing at a really nice tempo and playing in a way that those teams find it very hard to deal with and what's frustrating about England far too often is that they let teams dig in and they don't manipulate the ball from side to side quickly enough.

9:18They don't do anything with any guile when they're at their worst to suck a team in and catch them. And England's tempo is basically, over the last three games particularly, has been kind of irresistible really. It's been very different to the first three or however many games under Tuchel as well. Well, also, if you take into account the Senegal friendly, where England tried to go a bit toe-to-toe but didn't really have any conviction, and they got beaten the side was very experimental as well it was with this I mean if you look at the first goal that Anthony Gordon scores it's top rate I mean I know that he's playing up against a full back in a couple of centre halves that no one's ever heard of I get it but it's top rate I mean it's it was like an inverse Arian Robin like the way that he moves so fast the way he manipulates the ball the finish obviously Robin would have done it off the other flank but it was really, really good.

10:12And so, I think we do need to understand that England can only beat what's in front of them and if they can beat them in a certain way. We're not sneaking past teams now. The last three games we've been really good. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, here's some stats for England who have now scored in each of their past 18 matches for the first time since 1950 to 1953. So that goal against Senegal was good. You wouldn't have been able to say that otherwise, would you? That would have been a shame for the listeners. It would have been a great shame and it would have got us worried about next summer.

10:39They haven't conceded a goal in four games. Jordan Pickford has now gone an entire year without conceding a goal for England. It was, I mean, here's an interesting one with Pickford. There's a milestone cap for Pickford. And I'm thinking, blam, has he got 100 caps? No, he can't. It was his 80th cap. You think about what a mainstay in the team he's been since just before the 2018 World Cup, what we now are 2025. Those who reach 100 caps, I was like, bloody hell, that's more of an achievement than I even thought. But that's a slightly different point. After the game, Thomas Tuchel was purring. he was absolutely he was buzzing wasn't he in that interview now what I'm sort of taking from the qualification campaign so far I know they've got two games left but they're there when he started we were all quite down on it we were thinking hang on a minute this is has he learned any lessons from you know the last Euros that England were at because these big scores you're saying against smaller teams or sort of mid-ranking teams they did that a bit under Southgate I think it was a 5-0 home win against Albania was it off the top of my head you know 7-0 against North Macedonia It was all like, hang on, we're really expressing ourselves.

11:41And one of the myths under Southgate is when they got to the tournament, they were very, very conservative. They were little bits and pieces, but the last Euros, it's a bit like Paul Scholes. It's one of those kind of, oh, he never played the right position. Well, he did for the first three tournaments, but it was only the last one that he was farmed out wide. So mind how you go with some of the recent history. But your last tournament, England were very conservative. And despite reaching the final, we're a bit disappointing. And everyone was thinking, right, Tuchel, come along now, unleash the attacking talent you have.

12:07The Kraken. if you want to call it that the hounds of war the beast all of that the dogs of war all of that I'm into it all so it's hounds of love and dogs of war isn't it and all's fair in love and war so war

12:23what is it good for qualifying ahead of every other European nation there we are brings it all the way back sing it again yeah don't sing it again only for an away England fan but with Tuchel what he's doing is, to me, how I kind of assess what we've got so far, and it's a small sample size against limited opposition, and Tuchel himself is kind of working it out. But I find it interesting in those first two or three games, whatever it was, everyone was down thinking, and we were saying here on this very podcast, what is he doing? I don't quite get what he's trying to do here. And clearly he's feeling his way around it all.

13:03the games against Serbia and then we've had Serbia in particular he was it was as if he was looking at everybody going see I told you we've got something here and everyone's oh okay and then he picks basically the same squad other than one or two injuries and suddenly the mood has changed it seems a very healthy camp they're all loving it there's some huge players to come back you would imagine most of them if not all of them would come back they're certainly in contention I think again looking ahead to next summer it suddenly feels quite good Vish at the moment in the England camp whereas a few games ago and I understand you know if England lose the next two games we're all down and all miserable about it but it just feels like there does seem like there's a plan there does seem like Tuchel's got his bit between his teeth and what not and I mean what do you think?

13:53I want to flip this immediately back to you because he's German yeah it's not what you're going to say you can't get away you can't get away from that Vish deny that He can't deny it. No, he can't. He can't. Let me just delete some of this stuff. He's one of the most German people I've ever seen. Some really good jokes here. Have you seen anyone more German? No, don't answer that. No. Go on, bollocks aside, what were you going to say? So, I do agree with you, but I think the fault that I have, and probably a lot of England observers, is that I find it really hard to differentiate qualifying campaigns.

14:28Yes. Now, I am used to a degree of white noise when it comes to, you know, I suppose this period between international tournaments. Is that me you're talking about? Is that the white noise I'm providing? Yeah, yeah, sure. That was your nickname in high school, wasn't it? Really loud, this white noise. But the thing I have noticed is that there has been a bit more about this qualifying campaign. And now a lot of that is because the manager is Thomas Tuchel. And it's a very different appointment. I'd even go as far back as you know it's very different to Fabio Capello in that there was a there was a lot of noise around that but that's incredible like legendary manager England were getting in and obviously Sven was the precursor to that but you know we'd gotten over the overseas appointment as an England manager and so it was a bit more about you know is Tuchel really the guy is a two year deal really worth it what are we selling our soul for and And the fact that that noise has quietened down, or that kind of talk has quietened down, is only a good thing.

15:35But it also speaks to the fact that success and tactically we seem a bit more coherent. And I suppose it feels more sustainable, what he's doing. But do you truly believe that this qualifying campaign is different enough to suggest that the results will be different? Obviously England got to the final of the Euros last time. But do you think it's different enough that England are going to do something different to a World Cup? Yeah, based on qualification, no, I agree with you. I think you can look spectacularly good in qualifying and the tournament is a very different beast. The thing that I am noticing and a lot of people are is the fact that Tuchel feels like he's got both feet firmly under the England desk now and he's now going, ah, okay, and it's just a look in his eye and you're thinking, well, that's a manager who has won the Champions League.

16:24And I know that there's other club managers have come and failed and blah blah blah blah on that very quickly I can't remember an England manager who celebrates goals like he does every single goal I think he sees I think he sees this as a real challenge yes I think he sees this project as something a little bit out of the ordinary for him as someone who has you know achieved a lot in club football already still relatively young of course when he was appointed as England manager the big rumour which I fell hook line sinker for at the time that he was going to take the Man United job. You know, this is a guy who's linked with the very...

17:01The difference between him and, say, Capello is that aside from Capello winning La Liga with Real Madrid a few years before, his biggest achievements as manager, because the Juventus stuff was revoked anyway, the biggest achievements he had was quite a long time before that. And he was seen as someone... In the 90s with Milan. Yeah, and he was seen as someone who was not going out to pasture, but was kind of settling into an international job. And it was a completely different situation. And I think Tuchel sees this as perhaps a personal challenge, partly because he's German, partly because he's at the top of his game still.

17:32And, you know, in international football, maybe this is a bit solipsistic of me to say it, but I do think there's merit in the argument to say that delivering England a trophy, the England men's team a trophy, is probably the biggest holy grail in European football internationally. I would agree with that. Yeah, so it's a massive challenge for him. So I guess he's just passionately really into it. He's a big Anglophile as well. Sure. But ultimately, yes. Going back to the original question about the qualification and the tournament itself and stuff, none of us, whoever we are, whether we're making the show, listening, coaching, whatever, can really answer that question because ultimately, what it comes down to for a top international side, which England are, been to two finals recently and ranked where they're ranked, this comes down to really probably 180, 270 minutes of football in a knockout phase of a tournament because you could even extend the qualification thing through to the group phase, especially with a 48-team tournament.

18:33I mean, you'd expect you to qualify from the group pretty handily, but you look at the last World Cup when it was 32, they smashed Iran, they had a terrible day out against the United States, which is probably by design, actually, just having a little day off, a little rest, like a boxer taking a round off. Then they qualified pretty easy, they smashed Senegal, then they have life or death with France. And what's the key part of that story? Well, it's the France game. It's these different moments in the quarter-final. A missed penalty here, a kind of conceded goal there. Which is why that tournament informed, and injuries to Kane and Bellingham being exhausted, how England approached the Euros.

19:05Sure. Which, of course, they were unstuck against Spain in the final, but it was about the moments. You've got to fold that back into what you were saying earlier about two things. One is, how are they going to play when the World Cup comes around? We don't know, but we assume they're not going to play like they played last night or the game before that. And then the second thing is, how do they fold these other players back in? it may well be that Tuchel does want to play like that against big international sides at a tournament it may be that is how he sees England playing best that is how he sees the most balanced when England played France it wasn't conservative the handbrake was basically off they just got off on the wrong side of one I'm not conservative in that tournament six goals against Iran three against Wales three against Senegal and my other point would just be about the players coming back in why?

19:52so I think I think take two of those players like Joe Bellingham and Phil Foden I think they're both fantastic players clearly like their ceiling is super high they've got loads of ability and on their day they're brilliant right would you say that Foden and Bellingham have been really consistent difference makers for England over the years well it's funny what's the answer I would say probably not but that's not too so then why do you need to why do you need to force them back in well indeed I mean there's a big chat not Bellingham difference makers he's played his part he has played his part I mean scored a last minute equaliser yeah I suppose set up the equaliser in the final I might row back on Bellingham there a little bit but my point is just that I think sometimes we get I'm not I'm not I'm not trying to catch you out my point is that sometimes I think we just get this a bit wrong we just think our attitude as England fans sometimes is that we see for example Elliot Anderson having a lovely old time being brilliant probably being one of the standout players a lot of people would have him as a starter fine but a lot of people wouldn't and that's my point because they're going to go straight away bang well Bellingham needs to come in but you know what or whatever and I'm just saying why but Rice and Anderson in that midfield I think is lovely I mean it harks back to sort of Rice and Calvin Phillips when they were great in the centre now I know Rice's role was a bit different they made that reference on commentary yesterday what's Calvin up to now get him on the phone but I remember going into Euro 2021 oh sorry Euro 2020 in 2021 yeah with that base in midfield and I covered that tournament on the England side and feeling going into it that England didn't have enough thrust from the middle.

21:25Yeah. Obviously, the first goal is they basically combined dancing through the middle for England's first goal of the tournament. And it's like, oh, I didn't know you could do that. And now we know those players, well, you know, Declan Rice can do that. And we know, because of what we've seen with Elliot Anderson, the club and now country, that they can do that. And I don't want to say it, but there is an element of swapping, let's say. No, no, no, you're right. But it feels very different. Yeah, but it feels quite natural to them, doesn't it? And it's a different midfield structure. But combining all these things together and what you're saying, Luke, is, you know, you look at previous tournaments and so on, you know, Bellingham's best time in an England shirt consistently, you might have said was at World Cup 2022 when he was playing more in a, not a flat midfield three, but he's more of a kind of number eight, if you like.

22:14And I find it intriguing, this chat of who comes into the side, because I think Rice and Anderson, if you were to upset that, I just think Declan Rice is one of the best number eights in the world. And he's played so consistently. I often said I think he's England's most important player. You could argue maybe Harry Kane might disagree. But certainly the first or second name on the team sheet, you get the best out of him. So in that midfield, which is going to be a midfield three, who do you then have? And I think actually Cole Palmer and maybe even Phil Foden are more naturally suited to that sort of number 10 role than, say, Bellingham.

22:45The idea of not starting Bellingham is a kind of a, well, hang on a minute. England have beaten Serbia, Wales and Latvia lads calm down don't be ridiculous here but and this is what I mean with Thomas Tuchel I look at him and I think I trust him to get that right I trust him not to just go we've got shoehorn players in and try and do all that kind of routine I guess what's partly informing my point is that in the Euros England's opening game against Serbia which they won to be fair with Bellingham scoring the goal it was boring as fuck and they played Bellingham behind Kane and Foden off the left and it seemed stodgy.

23:20Foden was off the left in World Cup 2022, but I don't want to go too much about the history and who played where. Yeah, you do. Well, I do, but I don't think maybe people might get a bit bored of that. But the here and now is that England have some huge names to come back into that squad potentially. I mean, Grealish is playing well. Is he going to be? I would suggest that if you look at the flanks, he seems to want pace down at least one of the flanks and Gordon and Rashford, I think they're in. it's theirs to lose a pair of them I think he's been the most vocal about the wide positions in recent times for an England manager because he has constantly said he doesn't care who it is give me goals and assists that's all I want from you which is quite refreshing I imagine someone like Marcus Rashford and Anthony Gordon hear that brilliant that's the currency we're dealing in it's not necessarily and this is no criticism on Southgate it's not necessarily about time it's not loyalty based on the number of squads you win it's like who's on form who's doing well who's doing that job I remember saying before the Euros on form and position or you know kind of fit he should have been starting Gordon off the left in the Euros I said that the whole time yeah we were crying out for that and the reason I'm mentioning this is because we talked about Foden playing off the left it's like a different formation but playing Foden off the left it looked really stodgy but he had done that before people were getting in each other's way Well, I think it was that whole side.

24:48And Bellingham had to do it a few times. Yeah, I mean, Foden has played off the left for England, as they woke up 2022. But I think with Tuchel, yeah, you're looking at those wide positions. But look off the right. I think Saka's a starter. Jared Bowen comes in and you're like, oh yeah. He's got Madueke as well. He's got Madueke. You could have Cole Palmer there. I think Cole Palmer would probably be better off centrally, but he could do it. Foden could do it. I mean, again, the weapons. Half these players are going to miss out. Well, this is the thing, Luke. But again, I think Tuchel, what he's done, picking the same squads pretty much back to back and having Rodgers in there.

25:18I think he's basically saying to everybody and he's sending a message to one or two players and I think Bellingham is definitely one. He's saying, I value squad harmony because if we're going somewhere where it's going to be a lot of travel involved, if we're going to go deep in a tournament and it'll be a longer tournament than ever, we need everybody singing from the same hymn sheet. And there has been a few little murmurs about Bellingham and about some of his behaviour and the way he carries himself. About his dad specifically. Well, indeed. His dad's banging dressing room. doors down trying to get amongst it I mean Borussia Dortmund have had to implement a new rule because of his dad his dad used to play with Big Pav as well is that right prolific goal scorer in non-league over 700 goals apparently but with Bellingham there were a couple of little murmurs and rumours suggesting do you reckon that's what Bellingham's dad said when he went to the Real Madrid dressing room what's that 700 non-league goals let me in yeah I've got things to say I don't think he's tried that with Real to be fair probably not it's a bit easier to do with Borussia Dortmund and also if you've been to the changing rooms at Real Madrid which I have didn't end up signing for them didn't feel right for them more of an Atleti man he can't play never got the call I regret it they've only sent Salgado to have a change room so I ended up he thought he gave him a locker I ended up at Blackburn Rovers but unlike Zidane but with Bellingham there were sort of murmurs and rumours about his his sort of behaviour if you like in the camp at the Euros and one or two players going he's a bit full on in your face And I think Tuchel is saying, he said after the Serbia game, oh yeah, everyone was on the same page.

26:50There was no players throwing their hands up or getting an order back chatting and so on and so forth. And he could well be saying to Jude, this is what I expect. This is what, you know. And I think, again, I am now beginning to trust him more. Like I said, at the start of the World Cup qualification campaign, I was thinking, what is Tuchel doing? Now, when I see him bringing players in, well, you're playing, you're a settled side. The old Alf Ramsey quote, don't pick the best players you pick the players you need I think it's just beginning to show signs of coming together nicely obviously when the first ball is kicked at the tournament all this chat can go out the window but you've got to go on the here and now and I think the way Tuchel's got that glint in his eye he's thinking ah I'm getting my teeth into this you know to me it's looking as good as it possibly can do at this stage right I'm going to stop myself there because otherwise we need to go have a break yeah you've got a little tent pole we need to we need to have a word from the sponsors is that why I've got a cup of coffee here and it was sliding further down the table no I said little tempo very little the sponsors will be delighted to have that so great by the way yeah I've got a hard on so let's do the sponsor stuff semi on semi on Luke semi on of course England will discover their World Cup opponents when the draw takes place in Washington DC on the 5th of December that's how they get you isn't it they drip these little things in don't they I love the draw yeah me too I adore the draw yeah me too alright It's a month before the anniversary of us.

28:12Yeah. Months and days. Anyway, let's go for a break. And coming up after this, we have Wales losing, of course, to those bloody Belgians.

28:31Guys, sorry, live on Sky News. Do you reaction to the win? We lost. Sorry, reaction to the loss. Apologies. Reaction to the loss Shit Well back to the football I want everybody He got what he deserved I look back on that As an excellent piece of journalism Yeah That's like literally One job you've got to do The only way he could have Redeemed himself Was doing the old Bill Grandy Well go on Say something more outrageous Yeah You ready for the Vox Pop now Sure Right yeah You got all the information You need Right Remember the result Yeah Happened Just finished about Two minutes ago Remember it Yeah look at the kit He's wearing You fool Yeah look he's so happy he's left early to go and celebrate.

29:09Oh dear. Wales 2, Belgium 4. It's a shame for us. They are guaranteed a playoff spot, of course, because of their exploits in the UEFA Nations League. Again, don't discount that competition. It's one of the big three. You and Victor Gjokor, actually, love it. Both fine men. Yeah. Come on, Vish, you were going to say something? Well, yeah. In support of me? But if they, yeah, sort of. If they qualify through that route, they would be the lowest ranked in the playoffs. Yeah, so it is within their... It is trickier, but yeah. The Vixi Gorkwez reference is just him doing the most David Brent thing ever with Sweden having this absolutely catastrophic qualification campaign.

29:44And he posted on his Instagram a picture of him holding the UEFA Nations League Top Scorer trophy. Love it. Good news is I've been promoted. You're still thinking about the current qualification group. Still thinking about the Kosovo game, aren't you? We'll get to them in a minute. But yeah, so while still can qualify automatically, it seems unlikely though. But what's amazing about this is that Craig Bellamy is essentially using this entire job to have this almost completely individualistic adventure where he goes toe-to-toe with all these top sides and then talks about how much he loves it after they've been smashed again.

30:15Yeah, I mean, let you be the judge. I honestly love playing these top teams. It's so good. Yeah, that was post-match, by the way. Yeah, vital qualification go at the home you've just lost. Your heart is in your mouth at times. You're really living on the edge. I told you at the start when I was going to do this, I'm going to press. I won't sit back, and I know that goes against some people, but this is who I am. I mean, he was buzzing after the game. I mean, I sort of give him credit that he was saying, look, I saw a lot of good stuff here and he's trying to stay positive and they're still alive.

30:42It seems unlikely that they'll qualify automatically, but they could still finish second, which as you mentioned, Vish, they would be better seeded going into the World Cup qualification playoffs if they finished second rather than relying on what they did in the UEFA Nations League. But I mean, win, lose or draw, Bellamy's enjoying it. yeah i mean the the um the approach is not completely unfounded in that you get better by playing a better opponent but the problem then arises when you play someone on your level you're scarred in different ways so you end up i suppose being a worse version of yourself when you should probably stunt a bit more um and the fact that they've lost four out of the last five conceded 12 in that time and also got quite a bit of heat for even organising that England game in that particular window.

31:34But again, you can see the logic. He wanted them to prepare and play a certain way and they gave a much better showing of themselves here against Belgium than they did against England. Yeah. I think there's a difference between being toughened up and beaten to death, isn't there? Yes. Yeah, 100%. They don't want to be tenderised. Yeah. Yeah. Just tenderising the meat if you like to throw it on the floor and stamp on it over and over again. Much harder to bread tenderised chicken, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you'd expect Belgium who have sort of come to life a bit in this group to go on and win it.

32:07I think you just, I just think, we kind of gave Bellamy a bit of praise recently. I think his approach is refreshing. He's clearly a very passionate Welshman and really wants to achieve and get on. And I do think the players respect him and stuff. And there's been some good moments. But to build on what Vich is saying, I would just add to that that you have to pick your challenges. You don't play an awful lot of games as an international manager. One of the skills is probably just adapting and adjusting for the opposition you're playing and knowing what you need to get out of it and setting about the best way of achieving that.

32:42I think, look, they've got a lot of good players, Wells. So you can go up against teams that are roughly of your level and back yourself to win. But I think maybe in the cold light of day when you're playing Belgium and coming to town who aren't infallible, who showed themselves to be a bit vulnerable. I mean, Wales opened the score and it was a good header from a set piece. They had good moments. Players came off the bench and did well. If they had just adjusted a bit and maybe not tried to puff their chest out and trade blows. Which is what he wanted to do, really. And also, off the back of that, you've got, on this game specifically, you've got two penalties there.

33:17One of which was really harsh. The other one was really harsh, I thought. The other one was absolutely insane. Jordan James, what was he doing? Yeah, yeah. And so, I know it's sliding doors but there's not a lot in the game necessarily I know what you mean when you start to break it down into the details so if they had adjusted and maybe approached it a bit differently they might have got something so I think you've got to tread that line quite carefully yes well look they've got two games left in the group the Wales and now again we expect them to be fighting North Macedonia for that second spot North Macedonia ahead of them by three points and six goals better off but Wales they go to they've got Lichtenstein next.

33:58Lichtenstein lost 6 out of 6, they haven't scored a goal they've conceded 23. North Macedonia as I say that goal difference is quite a big thing. Well they've played the game more so they only have one game left North Macedonia and that's against Wales. Yeah so I doubt Wales are going to put 6 past Lichtenstein but if they were if they really racked up the goals which I don't think they will then a point might be enough in Cardiff but we would expect that Wales will need to win against North Macedonia at home which is their last game so that is it's going to be a huge game in Wales there's no doubt about that and again I think finishing second behind Belgium in the group that would still be a hell of an achievement I think for Wales because Kershaw are no mugs North Macedonia are no mugs either so it's a trickier group than I think people might think but they're still alive and see what they can do one thing they do need to sort out though is they've got a rodent problem play was delayed Joe Rodent well I did think that Vish you've ruined a gag there but well you only thought it you didn't say it well we all had it written down you've ruined a gag in his head it's out of order but it was a bit of a chuck away wasn't it yeah it was a bit you could have given a bigger build up to that Vish how have I done that well it's up to you it's up to you give him a chance what is the deal so everybody forget what Vish said and let me just say that play was delayed after that apparently what was described as a giant rat ran onto the pitch and was running around.

35:26Yeah, I didn't think it was giant. I thought it was a commonal garden rat, personally. I thought that as well. I liked that Brennan Johnson took it upon himself to solve the problem. But I've definitely seen bigger rats than that on the London Underground. Have you? And I think I've seen bigger ones than that in the New York subway as well. I've seen bigger ones than that playing for Liverpool last season. We all have. Was that Trent trying to get back into the international scene, was it? It probably was, yeah. Disgrace. Yeah, it was, yeah. Thank you, Bish. I prefer it as Joe Roden I'm still open for that if you want but anyway Head of Operations at Cardiff City Wayne Nash said it's something I've not seen in my 36 years at Cardiff City we had a stray dog on the pitch but this was something new a freak of nature it's not a freak of nature it's not is it very much part of nature Nash said that rat bait stations are in operation at the stadium as they rat bait yeah rat bait or the Bernabeu as they know nearby railway bankings can be infested with rats apparently you're never more than six feet away from a rat in London you'll never walk alone

36:35we got there at the end everybody now let's move on to Sweden they've sacked manager John Dal Thomason former Newcastle United man yeah he's had a great career as a player he's had a great career as a player manager as well yeah there you are I think he played for AC Milan and won lots of stuff but anyway yeah they lost to Kosovo inexplicably went on to play for AC Milan by the way yeah very much so they lost to Kosovo for the second time this year they've got Alexander Easek and Victor Jokere the way you said that it's like a clause if you lose twice to Kosovo in the same year you're out it's as simple as that well but when I tell you Kuluzeski Bergvall and in both games they had the chance to become lineal world champions or as everybody says unofficial world champions and they buggered it up twice yeah I don't think that's the big takeaway forget the group it's not the big takeaway the big takeaway is they've got like, I mean, it's really just a simple open and shut case for John Dale Thomas which is, you've got a lot of players that simply are not commensurate with these results and that's the end of it.

37:30It is. It quite simply is. I mean, they've bought it. They've played four in a group with Switzerland who are a good side to be fair. Kosovo, Slovenia and there they are. Four teams in the group. One point from four games and pretty much qualification of the World Cup now is incredibly difficult. Is this like a big pendulum where only Sweden or Norway can be good? Yeah, I think so. I like that. Yeah, it's like there's only a certain amount of energy that can be taken from that specific part of the world. Now Norway are actually good. Denmark are decent. Yeah, I don't know. And is that what John Dahl's doing?

38:02Denmark's across... Oh, yeah, it could be. He's an agent. Speaking of rats. Come back to base. Yeah, maybe. Maybe that's what they're doing, yeah. They're like, right, only one of us... One of us stays, one of us goes, because who's going to do the fishing if we're both at a World Cup? That is true. That is xenophobic. Why? That is xenophobic. Marcus was worried about being xenophobic about the Belgians earlier. Now you're being blatantly xenophobic about the Scandinavians. His defence, I love fish. What about when John Dahl Thomason was managing Sweden? Why didn't he just follow the instructions?

38:30There you go! Six of them a show. Fucking having a great time. We are having a great time. That was fucking good. And if they have a rat on the pitch, then Joe Rodent can saw it out. Was that too late? Brought us right back down to her. You're taking the rat bait there Well Yeah Kosovo ranked 91st In the FIFA World Rankings And they are They are in pole position For second spot In the group That's not what pole position is Pole position Obviously first I said pole position For second spot That just means They're in second spot Oh I tell you what Good news for you everyone Going for that job You're in pole position Yeah For second spot How did the final go?

39:12I won the silver I was in pole position they're part of the conversation for second school but for such a young nation as well to be given a good account of themselves no change of tune now no because I want to talk more about John Dyle Thomason did you hear like how paranoid he was getting by the end that for this Kosovo game he named his team an hour before kickoff which is a perfectly normal thing to do but you do have to tell your players and give them more than an hour's notice for that because he was wary of leaks to the media some managers used to do that back in the day though some managers used to do that back in the day you keep players on their toes I'm pretty sure Ferguson might used to do that.

39:46Occasionally. I mean, it's ludicrous to do that for an international game. Did Capello not do that at the World Cup for England? He did it with his goalkeepers. Rob Green didn't know he was number one until the first game. Amazing. Nice, isn't it? Yeah. And they weren't allowed ketchup either, which was basically the source, pun intended, of most of people's IRA in terms of the playing. Yeah, but under Southgate, you weren't allowed like a sort of a little... What did you have in your coffee? Your caramel sort of... Oh, syrup. It's a bit of syrup, yeah. Are you allowed syrup on the Southgate? Apparently so.

40:18That tracks. Yeah, it does, doesn't it? Yeah. Because remember there's that Vox Pops doing a round from that old Aston Villa VHS and they talk about their favourite drink. Just water. Yeah, just water, things like that. Things like that? Yeah. Well, I mean, I suppose squash is like that. It's mainly water, isn't it? Yeah. Things like that. But it's distinctly different, isn't it? Yeah. He may as well have said some liquids. He literally said just water, things like that. Well, maybe he just drinks from rivers then. you know don't get me on fucking Thames Water again yeah I won't no just capital of direct debit the interview was like what about ravines yeah I'd love a lagoon if you've got one is that a reservoir over again but by the way listen part of the reason that John Dal Thomason turning into Ray Liotta towards the end of Goodfellas could be a good thing for Sweden is because Graham Potter's line up Graham Potter's having a little snifter.

41:11There was a journalist who basically was like, yeah, you could use this as a stepping stone. He knows this. And apparently Graham Potter has said he has feelings for the country. Yeah, he's had some great times there. Feelings. Get the feels back. Yeah. Come on. I think also, it's been reported some places that Sweden are, quote, looking at Potter. What basically just happened is that Potter's seen an opportunity and thought, I need to get out of this country as quick as possible. My reputation is in the fucking sewer. Yes. and I've been brilliant in Sweden so I'm going to go back over there. Take the top job.

41:42And by the way, who among us, be honest now, who among us in any job looking at the state of this country right now wouldn't go, I fancy a bit of Sweden. Yeah. It'd be a lovely spot. I think we've all got feelings for Sweden. We have. Well, I think it'd be good. They gave us Sven, we're going to give them Graham. Yeah. Yeah, is that... Okay. Sven's a national treasure here though. Yeah. I don't think Graham's quite a Swedish national treasure here. I don't think he's going to be appearing in like Abba Voyage anytime soon. Yeah, I think there's a chance. It's early days. We can agree it's early days.

42:16I think for him though, joke on the side, for him, an absolutely bonzer job that. Yeah, big time. Great. Proper reset. Lovely, lovely thing. Yeah, I completely agree. But I do want to mention though, Kosovo, 91st in the FIFA World Rankings, as I say. And a country, of course, where due to the recent history of it and a role a certain someone played, a lot of men in Kosovo have the first name Tony Blair they do how about that I was checking earlier to see if there was anyone in the Kosovo national team that had that name but sadly there isn't that's a shame but that's not they're not called Tony Blair as in Blair's the middle name Tony Blair yeah I know Tony Blair he's a national treasure in Kosovo he is he popped up this week didn't he he did yeah it's really important to mention him whenever you can Tony Blair well done mate thanks yeah so not the worst we've had earlier on you referred to the Belgians as the bloody Belgians and then got upset that you might be a bit xenophobic about it why am I being xenophobic by talking about Blair you did call them a bunch of fucking chocolate eating more freak wankers you just said bloody Belgium yeah I'd love to be a more freak wanker that's the most dad's army fucking insult I've ever heard oh fine do your Blair stuff it's a bit Gordon Ramsay sometimes You've got Tony.

43:36Yeah. Is he Tomty? It's a little bit. Tomty Blair. Anyway, let's move on to teams who have qualified for the World Cup. After beating Iswatini 3-0, Cape Verge, as drunk people call them. Pete Donaldson's Cape Verde. Yeah, became the second smallest nation by population to ever qualify for the World Cup. But Shamrock Rovers defender Roberto Lopez, or Lopes, probably. A great story, by the way. He was recruited over LinkedIn. Lovely. What's wrong with that? Nothing's wrong with that. That's great. It's fantastic. Yeah, exactly. Get on there, everybody. He said, since we were all little kids playing football, we dreamed of playing football on the highest stage.

44:10And there's no bigger stage than the World Cup. So to do this, to be the first Cape Verdean team here, to lift all the people, the nation, to put them on that stage, there's no better feeling than that. It is. That's really nice. And among all the bullshit that FIFA put everyone through and all the bad things about it, it is still really cool that a team like Cape Verde, it means that much limit to the people. And that's the thing. like the double-edged sword of that is that that is a really nice story. Yes. Then you think that's how they get you, isn't it? That's what FIFA do. That's how they get you to be, to love them for that period of time because you love the World Cup so much.

44:46And it's like Sepp Blattery did loads of awful things, but it's like basically a legend in Africa. Yeah. You took the World Cup to Africa, right? All that stuff goes on and that's going to be going out in history in Cape Verde for a long old time, the fact they've qualified for the first time for a World Cup. It's amazing, really. It is, yeah. I couldn't agree more. Now then, before we go for a break. Speaking of FIFA nonsense. Tony Blair related this. Oh, good. FIFA president Gianni Infantino was spotted standing alongside President Trump at the Gaza Peace Summit in Sharm el-Sheikh. Infantino has publicly supported Trump's Nobel Peace Prize bid, which ultimately failed, of course, as we know.

45:26Infantino said, now there is a ceasefire, everyone should be happy about that. It goes beyond football, but it includes football as well. Yeah. What is he fucking doing? for a change at the very least he should have shit to do he should have stuff to do you know at the very least when I saw that picture of him popping up I thought I thought someone's that's AI that is yeah especially the way he shakes his hand and just stands next to him for a bit and Trump of all people has to say to him I think you should move out of the way it's a bit awkward what are you doing here he was like but I let you stand on the platform for the club world cup final yeah I'm giving you the world cup it's in the oval office do you reckon yeah do you reckon he just went Donald can I have that trophy back I've got to take it with me Donald's just like you don't understand how it works you know the maddest thing I am even more transactional than you you know how a lot of the stuff with Trump as as bad as he is it's actually the ones who abide by him and vocally support him and want to be seen to be doing that that are worse yeah yeah yeah it's the Richard Hammond Jeremy Clarkson situation you've got J.D.

46:28Vance you don't need to bring them into it but I'm just saying who's worse Clarkson or Hammond go on Hammond at farming Clarkson's better at farming yeah but you know the fact that he said like FIFA can't solve geopolitical issues yeah and it's like but he's having a good go yeah and despite the fact there are calls across like the European football world for things like you know banning Israeli teams from competing not playing against Israel and like loads of anti you know Israel protests going on for these friendlies that are going on at the moment as was last night against Italy him then saying that and then popping up there like the salt pay of what like international he's basically been salt payed last World Cup now he's salt paying a peace summit maybe that's is it like Jumanji or the ring the curse passes on and you have to be that annoying nobody maybe but to go back to what you were saying about oh football can't solve geopolitical problems no I never said no he did but you said he's having a good go but he's not though is he he's not having a good he just wants to be in the middle of it he just wants to be set of attention if you read that big athletic deep dive on him about how this job has corrupted him like the one ring I'll tell you later Mark it's not your thing but it's actually quite it's just a bit weird how different he's become and how this job has completely occupied him and turned him into this he's not trying to solve anything he just wants to be there he just thinks that Donald Trump's his mate he just wants to be there to make sure that when history whatever he decides history is and when it happens he wants to be in the middle of it they're obsessed with like legacy and the photographs and everything these people aren't they yeah why is he I didn't realise this until I read up on it yesterday but in 2020 he was invited to the White House for the signing of the Abraham Accords it's just I think it's to do with why I think it's because the World Cup cycle the World Cup's going to be in the US so they're just trying to they're trying to they're trying to blend themselves together aren't they the same way that he's taken a load of offices at Trump Tower and stuff like that it's just the ruling class just trying to sort each other out all the time they're trying to set the trend with a mix and a blend coming up after this Jack Wilshire has bagged himself a new job.

48:34Back down to earth.

48:46Yes, as Gianni and the boys try and solve world peace, Jack Wilshire is going to solve Luton Town. He's been given the job. Former England and Arsenal defender, of course. Still looks great. See some of the shots of him. Because he's about 33. Yeah. Player manager, Luton Town. come on yeah he should still be playing he obviously doesn't fancy it there was a video of him a while back playing a Sunday league game a load of people saying he's still got it he's 32 and he's playing Sunday league he's played for England of course he's one of the best prospects England's ever produced I think he can still play Sunday league he's younger than a lot of players currently still playing in the Premier League yeah he's 33 but he's got he's back in football well he's been in football a while of course but he's he's a number one now and Mikel Arteta the current Arsenal manager, of course, at the time of recording, we've not heard any rumours, gave him some words of advice.

49:37He said, Jack, you just have to jump in and swim as hard as you can. Yeah, it's an interesting appointment. I'm quite into it. I think Jack Wilshere is someone who clearly is really into the idea of staying in football and coaching. He's been behind the scenes at a number of clubs for a long while. I rate what he's doing. Despite his tender age, he's done his pro licence as well. He's done that, so he's doing all the right things. And the context of that Arteta quote is that apparently when he knew he was in the running for this job, he called Arteta and said, look, how will I know when I'm ready?

50:05And Mikel Arteta was like, well, you won't. You're never going to feel like you're ready. You just got to do it. And I guess he's obviously taken that advice. He's also brought in Chris Powell as well, who's like a coach who's got a lot of miles on the clock. I actually think, you know what? I actually think, with the greatest respect to Luton, I mean, I was in Luton yesterday, so I'm struggling to give it a lot of respect, but all the respect I can give it. I think Chris Powell's a really good level of coach for them to get. 100%, yeah. they've had a terrible couple of years and they're not pulling up any trees in League 1 at all they're 11th currently back to back relegations yeah that kind of malaise that sets in that we talked about in the context of Southampton who are kind of experiencing it a bit now in the championship they're finding it really tough to get any kind of momentum going and that was something that they were warned about I think by a lot of people when they essentially wrapped their hands on the Premier League last season Luton have kind of done that but turbocharged I quite like the appointment I like that they're thinking outside the box and giving the young person a chance.

51:01I forget the name of the owner, but he said they did some data. They run some data about first-time managers and managers who hadn't managed before. And there was eight of them in League One at one point and four of them got promoted. Like he said, the record of fresh thinking is actually something to be considered at this level of football, which I found quite interesting. Obviously, it comes down to him, whether he's going to be able to do it or not. I mean, I never really saw him... I mean, it's difficult, isn't it? because in his pomp, he was so young. And you can't be too judgmental of someone who's, you know, I can't really say something like, oh, I never really thought he had managerial credentials when I saw him interviewed after that Arsenal game when he was like 19.

51:38Yeah, yeah. What kind of basis is that? He seemed really naive as a teenager. Oh, no shit. Yeah, right. And I think people who are critical of this move, oh, it's a vanity appointment and Jack Wilshere doesn't deserve it or whatever. I don't agree with that because where is Jack Wilshere realistically going to start? I mean, the problem you find, and I think it was Frank Lampard who might have said this, or someone of that ilk said, the problem is if you go too far down, you're not relatable. You've never experienced the challenges they're experiencing. And that's not a big time Charlie thing.

52:07That's the reality of it. So I think League One seems all right. And a club that were in the Premier League a couple of seasons ago. You know, as you say, they've kind of spiraled. New stadium on the way as well, by the way. Not at the moment. Yeah, so that's underway. That would be a relief for the people who live in that stadium. A bit less noise. Yeah, exactly. Get your living room back. Have your living room back. Get a garden back. Get a bit of Strictly back on again. Exactly. Finally. Blimey O 'Reilly. Good luck to Luke and then good luck to Jack Wood. I think, yeah, I would agree with you there.

52:35Luke Tannicle has been drawn against Robbie Savage's Forest Green Rovers in the first round. I wonder if that'll be on TV. Off of the FA Cup, which takes place on the 1st of November. Forest Green Rovers are going pretty well in the National League's second. Savage said this week that he wished he'd turned down Strictly Come Dancing, Luke Moore, until after his coaching career because he feels like maybe some people criticise him and don't take him as seriously as he might have done. There may be other reasons for that, but Savage said he was always going to, you know, he said with regard to Strictly, he said, yeah, I probably regret that, but he said, I'm a personality and I believe in an infectious character who tries to get the best out of people.

53:10And went on to say, I'm just a normal manager. I mean, I'm an inexperienced manager, giving it his best with great staff. I'm just a passionate man who cares about which other club he's at. A little bit Notting Hill there. I'm just an inexperienced manager looking at a fan base asking for them to love me. It might be, I can't remember. Yeah, that's what Julia Roberts says. I'm just a girl in front of a boy. I can get through more than about 20 minutes of Notting Hill. Oh, you should have stayed with it. Too objectionable. Oh, Spike. Yeah. He's in his underpants. The twists and turns. Yeah. When he uppercuts are at the end, you don't see it coming.

53:41I don't, I personally, I am personally against any media that makes the upper classes seem pleasant. That's what there's, there's a there's a I don't disagree with that the other day because you look at a scene where they're being relatable having dinner together but they're not though are they they're cunts there's a it's like Downton Abbey I love it it's like Downton Abbey when he gets on his tank for a bit of class warfare I love it no it's good Steve Coogan said this the other day I couldn't agree more he was like I'm not watching the new Downton Abbey movie because I don't agree with the very idea that all these people are really nice to their stuff it doesn't happen it just didn't happen didn't happen So Diane Keaton passed away this week.

54:23Very sad. And one of the films people were talking about around her passing was a film called Hampstead, which apparently is a comedy drama featuring Brendan Gleeson, sorry, just about living in Hampstead. What, in North London? Yeah. Lovely old job. That's the film. No, Marcus, the other Hampstead. No, because... No, that's fair. See, that's fair. It's not fair. He always does this. I know, because not everybody lives in London. make the listeners have a bit of less intellectual laziness they can find out themselves oh is that what it is yeah okay oh where is this mythical Hampstead people are talking about yeah but people might not know it's a bit of a fancy can I say something if they're not living in London by now they've got no chance have they they're not in a hill townhouse by now they're going to remain poor that's not the rest of us the point of bringing this up is if you live outside London yeah you're never going to see Hampstead yeah watch the film is Hampstead on the Monopoly board No.

55:20No. Can I say something about Robbie Savage? Oh, please. Yes, definitely. We are... Relatable. Much more relatable. We have to accept that we might well be on the verge... Here we go. ...using your phrase, the worrying idea that Robbie Savage might actually be quite a good manager. Okay. He's done an all right job at Macclesfield. Yeah. Forrest Gwynn is second in the National League. They've only lost one game this season. It's a long way up the division. And I don't think he's even trying that hard to manage it at the moment. but he's doing loads of TV stuff still. Oh, yeah. He's not like Wayne Rooney.

55:51Yeah. You wouldn't see him. He'd be... The only chance of Primo Fargo was to see a Wayne Rooney was watching Match of the fucking Day. True. One job Rooney's not taken, Forest Green Rovers, he's not going anywhere near a vegan club. And to his credit, get that meat inside you. Right, I want to end with this. There's the name of the show. There's the title. Get that meat inside you. If he wasn't, and then he uppercuts her, it's get that meat inside you. Do you know what? I think we're going to end now. thanks for listening to the football rebel part of the ACAST creator network patron subscribers don't go anywhere keep listening for ramble uncut and if you're not a patron subscriber what are you doing head over to patreon.com to sign up now don't just sit online complaining about adverts or us do something about it yeah buy what we're selling yeah I sometimes see the people complaining about adverts thinking but they never watched TV they just never watched any TV just the BBC I do quite like maybe they pay a licence fee for that I do quite like the guy who I don't know which podcast but it might be Spotify actually who is often the first commenter who puts when the adverts stop.

56:55Yeah, public service for the rest of the listeners I guess. They can just skip them. Different to that guy that Andy Brassel told us about when AFC Wimbledon's social media account would update and the goal's gone in the bloke was straight on it I am wanking. That's Pete. Oh dear. Thank you very much Vish. Thank you. Thank you Luke. Thank you very much. And thank you That Man Wanking.

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