In memory of Diogo Jota

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3:24Luke Moore: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble. It's Friday, 4th of July. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm Jim Campbell.

3:48Luke Moore: Hello, everybody. Well, as you all know, we had some incredibly sad news yesterday. Liverpool and Portugal forward Diogo Jota and his brother Andre Silva were both tragically killed in a car accident just a couple of weeks after Jota got married to his long-term partner. He leaves behind three children. He was 28 years old and this news was just devastating. As I say, you all know it, but it still resonates and it's still something that one can't get one's head around, Jim. Yeah, the details of the situation are absolutely heartbreaking. It's impossible not to think about his young family and also his parents having lost their two sons.

4:33Luke Moore: They must have been so proud of the lives they'd created and the future they were going to have. And it is the sort of situation where those lives are changed forever now. And it's just impossible to look at that without a deep, deep sadness. Yeah, I think it was... So many messages were being sent to WhatsApp groups because people are just like, what? It's unthinkable. It's unthinkable. It's a piece of news to receive that is almost unthinkable, you know? And when I first heard it from Andy, I was just like, what? What? What are you talking about? Kind of thing. Because it's so unimaginable, you know?

5:12All death is sad. Losing anyone is really sad. But when you see a couple of people in the prime of their lives, you know, and in Diogo Jota's case, you know, at the absolutely apex of his career and achieving so much and being so full of, you know, vivacity and life and energy and it does feel, it just feels strange to see someone cut down like that in the prime of their life, you know, for fate to break his stride in that way and it's unbelievably tragic and really, really sad and it's not really much else one can say other than just the tragedy of the situation is entirely overwhelming and the details are the details and how good a player he was or wasn't is by the by because he's a human being and the football community has lost him but more importantly his family have lost him and his brother and it's, like I say, just unimaginably sad.

6:13Luke Moore: Yeah, a statement from the Portuguese Football Federation read much more than an amazing player with almost 50 international appearances for the national team. Diogo Jota was an extraordinary person, someone with an infectious joy and a reference. in the community itself. And yeah, the funeral of Jota and Andre Silva will be held tomorrow. I mean, the one thing that has come through since this news, and as you said, Marcus, we're still getting our heads around it, you know, which is under 24 hours since we've heard the news. So it's still very, very raw for everyone. But one thing that has come out already is really the outpouring of the football community at large talking about not what a great player he was, which of course he was, but what a great person he was.

6:54And, you know, if there's one small crumb of comfort that can be collected from this, it's the idea that the football community, the people of Liverpool, particularly Portuguese people as well, of course, can come together and hopefully in time celebrate an amazing life of what was clearly an amazing person. We didn't know him, but we hear these tributes that pour him from all aspects and all parts of the football world. And so that's a small crumb of comfort that, you know, he lived his life in an exemplary manner and was a great example to many, many people out there. But ultimately, at this point, the emotions and the feelings are just one of grief and sadness for his family, particularly.

7:33Luke Moore: I think so many people just, you're sort of struggling to process it because when it is somebody who's high profile and we see them all the time, there's almost like an eternal feel to them. It's a superhuman feel to them. You don't think of them as human beings. No, you're right. And I think, if you understand what I mean here, with footballers, you sometimes forget, you know, certainly chaps our age, you know, they're a bit younger than us, but you always sort of see them as older because you kind of, in a way, you kind of look up to them or you put them on a, in high esteem. But yet, of course, you know, a friend of mine was saying this, but yet they epitomise youth really.

8:05Luke Moore: Because obviously, you know, that speaks for itself. And so when somebody, Diego Jota, obviously we didn't know the career so much of Andre Silva, but when you have two footballers who are, you know, as you say in the prime of their careers, you know, Jota just won the Premier League, just won the UEFA Nations League. When this happens, it's so kind of shocking and strange and it will take a while to process this. But when any young person, and they both were young, when any young person passes away it has a whole extra resonance to it it's so out of context if you see what I mean it feels it feels like it's against almost like the laws of nature yes and so that makes it much more impactful and we do have almost as a kind of parasocial relationship with football players particularly high profile ones we have opinions on them we feel like in some way we know them because we know their contributions and we know what they're bringing to the world's you know, most incredible sport, right?

9:02Of course, we don't know them. And then we're forced to think of them as human beings when something like this happens. And it is overwhelmingly shocking. It's a very powerful thing to experience just as a witness, just as a kind of normal person, you know, experiencing it. So, you know, for... He would have... I'm sure, based on what we've heard about him since this news, I'm sure he would have been the absolute, you know, North Star to so many people in his life. And so these people hopefully will get the support they need to help them through this really difficult time. It's an absolute tragedy.

9:35It's like a start. It's unimaginable. It's unthinkable. But it has happened. And it's just tremendously sad.

9:42Luke Moore: Yeah. And I really, my heart goes out to Liverpool fans as well, because in that same sense, you know, we do have this parasocial relationship with footballers, as you rightly say. And it's a very, very strong one when they're players in your own team. There are going to be a lot of people feeling that loss for a person they didn't know personally. but it's still affecting and it's still very real and it's still very painful and it's just a horrible, horrible situation all around and my heart goes out to anyone affected by it at all. And we'll see the best of the community up in Liverpool now, I'm sure.

10:14And the best of the Portuguese people as they unify and come together to try and get past this as best they can. So that's again another small crumb of comfort but Liverpool, I mean all the clubs that I've seen in England so far have made their tributes but even rival clubs in Everton, Man Utd have been straight up in front of the queue to share their sympathies as well. So we'll see the best of the community up in Liverpool, I'm sure, in these coming days and weeks. But ultimately, the thoughts, for me at least, and we'll speak on behalf of anyone else, but for me, the thoughts are with his young family and his parents, as Jim said.

10:43That's the first port of call, I think, for any sympathy.

10:45Luke Moore: As I said, the funerals of Diogo Jota and Andre Silva will be held tomorrow, which will be extremely emotional as it goes without saying. Diogo Jota and Andre Silva, of course, who tragically died this week. Our thoughts are very much with their family. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If I could choose to be better at one thing, it would be keeping plants alive. I start with the best intentions. I read their watering instructions, put them in direct sunlight if they like it or keep them away from it if they don't. Then something changes my routine slightly. I get out of the habit. And before I know it, I'm surrounded by withered horror, unquenched gasping misery in every plant pot.

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14:20Luke Moore: Welcome back to the Football Ramble, everybody. This weekend we have the Club World Cup quarterfinals, Palmeiras versus Chelsea on, well, sort of overnight Saturday. Some may stay up for it, some may not. No one will stay up for it. but this of course is a replay if you like of the 2022 Club World Cup final between Palmeiras and Chelsea the Palmeiras head coach Abel Ferreira is very much after the Club World Cup he apparently has turned down offers from abroad because he said he's wanted to make Palmeiras presumably the best club side in the world before he leaves and of course if they can beat Chelsea I mean you know Chelsea are the most fancied side left in the well I think PSG are but the data seems to say that Chelsea are.

15:07Luke Moore: Well, according to the FIFA World Club Cup Opta winner predictor, which the Sky Sports have named it. Rolls off a tongue now. It really does. Just say Opta. Opta have predicted. Say the Opta supercomputer. There we are. It's all tagged up. Chelsea are now favourites for the Cup. They have a 26.44 % chance of winning it. PSG are just behind them with 25.45%. Real Madrid in third with 16.59 % and Bayern fourth with 14.78%. The two Brazilian clubs are bottom. Al-Hilal apparently have got a better chance than those two Brazilian clubs. Yeah, I think this is a statistical quirk of the draw, though, isn't it?

15:45Luke Moore: It's actually that's created this. Oh, because PSG are in a much tougher half. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, of course it is, yeah. Them getting there in the first place. Well, you say that. I didn't realise that. Yeah. Well, are you not fully focused on this tournament? Let me put it this way. You've watched Glastonbury and you've forgotten all about this. I'm more interested than Jim. Wimbledon. Oh, sorry. I'm more interested than Jim and I'm less interested than you. A little sweet spot. There we go. I think I get that. I understand the half of the draw and everything like that. I think it would be, I mean, we're going to have one of Fluminense and Al Jalau in the semis, which is quite interesting.

16:15And to me, there will be something more exotic about having a non-European team win it. Sure. I can't quite put my finger on why that is, but you guys know what I mean.

16:27Luke Moore: So I have a Brazilian friend, and he was asking me how it's kind of perceived over here. and he was saying that he lives in Sao Paulo and he was saying that every bar you go into the Club World Cup is on if there's a game happening and everyone is essentially supporting the other Brazilian teams unless they're their direct rivals and they've really sort of come out for it as you expect and obviously some of the Brazilian clubs have taken the opportunity to have massive digs at each other based on their own success there as well so I suppose there's a factor there but generally speaking there's been a lot of support even for the Argentinian teams in Brazil apparently.

17:01Luke Moore: And the idea of the Mundial, which is obviously the world title, is huge and important there in a way that we don't really think of it here. So that is that extra motivation. And I think you're right, there's certainly a romance to it. If it's an all-European final in particular, it would be a shame. Well, I think there's romantic elements to the tournament still, despite all the cynicism around it, right? So if, I mean, it can't be this because of the way the draw is, but for example, if it was an Al-Hilal, you know, PSG final, it's a bit and I said this I think I said this at the start of the week or maybe last week you know there's a feeling that Chelsea are gunning for this because it kind of fits their their kind of energy their kind of aesthetic it does Denuvo Rich yeah if you have a Chelsea or an El Hillaure or a PSG it's kind of like oh okay right yeah you've done your bit we've developed this ridiculous money focused if a Real Madrid wanted they said it would be appropriate for them yeah they're the death star they're old money yeah old money always gets I think if we were to see a Fluminense or a Palmyras win it, it would be a little bit of a fuck you, wouldn't it?

18:06Yeah, massively. So I think there is still interest in there. What's interesting to me, to make it a more broad chat about these games, just to open it up a bit, what's interesting to me is, I guess, trying to understand from you guys how you feel about the idea that if we had two quarter finals in the Champions League, that were PSG versus Bayern, Real Madrid versus Borussia Dortmund. Real Madrid versus Dortmund's a bit of a kind of classic Champions League fixture. We'd be a lot more excited about it than we are here, even though these are literally the same fixtures. But I think that's why it's not exciting here, because we see it a lot already.

18:45I don't think it is that. I think it's because people haven't fully accepted the legitimacy of this as a tournament. Possibly. Sorry to say that, Marcus.

18:52Luke Moore: No, no, I'm glad, because Jim and Andy, and Andy went to see the damn thing. He's lined their pockets. Luke isn't saying he's on board with it. He's just talking about the sort of broader thing of it. I sense the tide is turning with the mind of Luke Moore. You take like, what? How many kicks did it take? Jim, I'm not comfortable being the canary in Mark's mind. But you're coming around to the idea. You just think it's a bit over. My point is, as we said on the mailbag, and you're on record as saying this, that there's a tournament idea in there. It's just a bit over bloated. And it's also ridiculous on the schedule.

19:27yes that's to me that's self evident that doesn't seem to be that controversial

19:32Luke Moore: to me the issues are of player welfare and also of players being overplayed which then has a detrimental effect on the rest of the game throughout the world and you know what FIFA are like they will want to expand the tournament and they will want to make it every two years we know they want to do that because they've said they want to do that and they just kind of do what they like so to me although there's been some good games it's not really justified its existence I mean we're sort of repeating a conversation we had the other day but that's how I feel about it well Jim Palmeiras head coach Abel Ferreira has called upon American fans to support them because it is the 4th of July.

20:04Luke Moore: That's clever. And he's trying to drum up support. Lovely little move, that. A lovely one, yeah. I mean, American soccer fans may well be in good mood because the US have reached the final of the Gold Cup. That was in front of a full stadium, as was Mexico when they beat Honduras. A lot of fans there. A lot of fans there. Maybe they've all gone there. Abel Ferreira's done an absolute Argentinian of a quote. as well, isn't it? It can be a good opportunity for the local people to join up with us against the English because tomorrow, if I'm not wrong, it's Independence Day against the English, the British, if you want to be more accurate, but I take the sentiment.

20:38And although recent developments may kind of undermine what I'm about to say, but the US aren't technically at war with Britain anymore. And it's been quite famously about 250 years.

20:50Luke Moore: I always find it funny. I remember some people from the States coming here and it was 4th of July. They were like, oh, we didn't want to celebrate here. We don't want to upset anybody. And I was like, why? Yeah. Was it independence from you guys? I was like, oh yeah, I never really think about that. My granddad said to me, I went over to the US for a summer with my obviously American wife and I saw my granddad, who's still with us at the ripe old age of 93. And he said to me, when I told him I was going, are you still, you're going over are you? I was like, yeah. He said, what, this week? Yeah.

21:16He said, he just looked to me, he went over the top of his paper, he just went, keep your head down.

21:22Luke Moore: Yeah, there you are. Yeah. so well maybe they'll drum up some of the American support who knows but we look we do have some there's some interest here I mean we just touched on it but you know Al Halal for all their kind of you know whatever you want to call it unsavouriness they've knocked out Manchester City in a kind of in a kind of you know dogfight really and Fluminense I mean if they can beat Manchester City they can beat Fluminense and as I've always said on this show you can check this back over however many years we've been doing it now if you're in the semi-final you're in the conversation you are and so if they get past Fluminense who knows I mean they've got a really really talented very experienced squad they'll be the favourites in that game for sure well indeed Jim I mean the Opta supercomputer would back you up on that well not only that Marcus it would never lie to you Jim I know it's not capable of it it doesn't know how to and we should welcome and yes I have been watching a lot of Adam Curtis this week we should welcome our new computer supreme overlords.

22:25Luke Moore: What a world it will be if the singularity is achieved by the Opta supercomputer. It's not impossible, is it? It's going to start somewhere. There's going to be a ground zero. And it will come back and it will just say, you know what we're going to do now? Just football. That's it. That's all we're doing. But this does feel like the start of that, doesn't it? It does a bit. It does a bit. You know, another interesting... Infantino, he is just an AI thing, isn't it? That would make sense. He was a robot, yeah. He doesn't seem like a real person. another interesting kind of element of these two fixtures is Esteval Willian yes the young Palmeiras winger who's obviously going to join Chelsea in the summer I think they actually signed him last summer didn't they and he is very highly rated in Brazil like kind of next top line big name player rated you know he's highly rated Jim because he's leaving indeed but in a sense that I think he's the kind of Brazilian player that's never come to the Premier League with this much hype at this stage of their career before we've obviously seen Vinicius and Rodrigo go to Real Madrid and Endric, of course.

23:23Luke Moore: He's rated in a similar way. It'll be very interesting to see how he adapts to life in the Premier League. And this will be a little kind of, a bit of a strange little game, right? With him playing against the club he's moving to? Well, it will be. And it might be stranger if we see João Pedro playing for Chelsea. But, I mean, he's there. He broke away from his holiday, obviously, to sign for Chelsea. And apparently he's going to go over there. He was a Fluminense youth player as well. So maybe there's an extra narrative. He could be drafted in at some point. It seems unlikely, but he might be.

23:54Luke Moore: Because Chelsea are going to be without the suspended Moises Caicedo would be a huge miss. And Romeo Lavia is a doubt. So they are going to have to have a rethink in the midfield. You would imagine Enzo Fernandes might drop a bit deeper, which would be a bit of a shame for him. But I mean, João Pedro to go from holiday into the heat of America at start might be a little bit fanciful. I mean, he would love that. Surely that would appeal to the nature of how footballers think about themselves, though, right? main character energy, isn't it? But Morescu himself has commented and gone, yeah, whether he's ready or not.

24:24I'll just put this out there. Go on. Opta are reporting that Lavia will start. I need to caveat that by saying I don't think it's the supercomputer that's said that. I think it's just the normal assistant. The assistant, you can't really trust the person. It could be the assistant to the regional computer. But they have said that, yeah.

24:40Luke Moore: Yeah, okay, fair enough. Well, Chelsea apparently set to sign Kian Best, who was recently at Preston North End. We spoke about his departure when he found out he was leaving after seeing an Instagram post from the club announcing his departure. I mean, he has had the last laugh there, hasn't he? This is a strange story. Yeah. I've not seen Kian Best play that much. Clearly, there's a... I mean, it just feels odd that he's surplus to requirements at Preston and now he's been hoovered up by one of the biggest, most successful teams around. There must be something going on there that I don't know about.

25:13Luke Moore: Well, it is odd. That doesn't narrow it down. Yeah, true. I mean, Preston North End manager Ryan Lowe did say in an interview that Best has a wand of a left foot. And his name's Best, so we'll go with that. It's much easier to stand out with a good left foot than it is a good right foot, though. Do you think so? Come on. It's much more common to be... It's very valuable. If you're a really good right-footed player, people don't notice as much. Yeah. They don't, do they? Well, do you think there's more opportunities? There's more work for those with a left foot? It's more prevalent, definitely.

25:47if you're right-footed. But I think also it's a bit like if you watch a golfer, a really top golfer, I know you won't because you don't like golf, but a left-handed, it's like me and tennis, but a left-handed golfer. I know you're talking.

25:59Luke Moore: I'm on board. Well, that also applies to tennis. Probably does, yeah. Hence Rafa Nadal's massive left arm. He wasn't actually left-handed, but he learned to play left-handed because it's harder to defend against. Right. There we go. You've summed it up much better than I could. Yeah, there you are. It just looks better with a left-handed golf swing. Oh, right. You think it's an aesthetic thing for you? I think it's not just me. I think a lot of people would say the same. Michael Richards was saying this quite recently as well. I don't agree with my own opinion then. So what you should have done was you should have said thank you to tennis for providing us the example and do watch Wimbledon because the coverage is brilliant on the BBC.

26:30I tuned in to a bit of tennis yesterday. Oh yeah. Just thought I'll stick it on. And what did I see? I saw a vaguely generic posh British man go out early. Satisfied everything I need to know about it. Yeah. How dare you? That's what happened.

26:43Luke Moore: He's one of our brave boys. That's one of the best bits. Yeah, is that the whole point of it? Yeah. Okay. Good to know. Well, elsewhere in the Club World Cup, Paris Saint-Germain take on Bayern München. Bayern reportedly interested in signing Marcus Rashford. How about that? Yeah. I wonder who seeded that story out. Yeah. I mean, if he's 40 million... Marcus Rashford went to the club shop and bought a baseball cap and his agent seeded that out to the press. Could well be. I mean, he's supposedly available for 40 million pounds, right? So if someone can convince him to take a wage cut, that's potentially a very good deal.

27:17My feeling is, and this comes from the stuff he said about Barcelona, I just think, and this is not meant at all as a criticism of him, at all, because I imagine there's many, many people out there the same, and I'm sure I'd be the same if I was a top footballer. I think there's an ego about him, and he wants to just play at big clubs. And I think that...

27:34Luke Moore: I think that's fair enough. I don't think... I think there's nothing wrong with it. Aim high. But yeah, but I think what Jim's saying there, it feels like there's a bit of truth in that, i.e. that he will be able to tell himself perhaps that it's not a climb down to take a wage cut if you're going to Bayern Munich or if you're going to Barcelona because it's not a step down. So I think that, I don't know what Bayern's interest is, but I totally understand why he might want to do that. Yeah, apparently PSG's Fabian Ruiz has been the subject of interest from Manchester United. I'm sure he has. Yeah, they'll be able to ruin even him, I'm sure.

28:08Luke Moore: Yeah, they ruined Ruiz. Wonderful player. Yeah. will not be a wonderful player this time next year if that happens do you think the hierarchy of the club they were watching back the Champions League final it happened to be on and they were like we should sign some of these yeah they look decent they would improve us I think yeah you know and they're out of the Club World Cup which is presumably where Man United would want to be probably sacrifice a spot in the FA Cup to do it if they wanted to oh it's an old reference but it's one that still stings it's 25 years old and it's still raw they still did it they did do it they still did it they did Raz you mentioned Real Madrid and Dortmund earlier.

28:41Luke Moore: This game on Saturday at 9pm will be Real Madrid's 67th official match of the season. Okay? Yeah. It will equal the all-time European record for games played in a single campaign, which Liverpool did in 1983-84. So there you go. Lots of football has been played. And think about how football has treated themselves back in those days. That was a really interesting aspect of that. I couldn't believe that. Because Chelsea 2012-13 also share the record. But you think, well Okay. So I looked at these games for Liverpool in 83-84. I thought, what on earth was happening there? Was it the sort of Anglo-Italian cups here and like fairs cups there and whatnot?

29:17Luke Moore: But they were in the charity shield. It was a league cup though, wasn't it? The league cup they played. I love how you start with the charity shield, a one-off game. Well, they all count, right? So it's the charity shield. There were 22 teams in the league that season. They went out in what was then the fourth round of the FA Cup. So that's just two games there. They won the European Cup, which was nine games in total, all knockout games, but over two legs. Yeah, but a lot shorter competition than what we have now. So it is the League Cup that's done it. So every round was two-legged and the final went to a replay.

29:49Luke Moore: At one point they played Fulham. It was 2-2 on aggregate, so they played a third game. I think they played either 13 or 14 League Cup games. But they used to do this in the World Cup back in the day. If it was a draw, they couldn't decide. They'd be like, oh, we're going to have to replay this a few days later. People had time back in those days. Don't worry, we'll sort the competition out. So yeah, Real Madrid. Sorry, just to cut in. It is pretty interesting to hear that it was possible to play that many games back then as well. I suppose maybe, well not maybe, for sure the argument would be one of intensity of the games, the pace of the games, the quality of the opposition.

30:23Two subs back in those days, was it? Yeah, true. That's true though.

30:26Luke Moore: And players were, you know, they didn't look after themselves. Which weirdly though, that means they got injured less because they're kind of like F1 cars now. That is not a scientifically qualified opinion from Jim Campbell. No, but I've heard this before. I've heard this before. As you all know, I'm not a qualified physiotherapist. So they were so pissed they were still a bit loose. But the theory is that when you're tuned up in the way that players are now, you're more susceptible to injury because it's like an F1 car style situation. You can absorb knocks a bit more if you've got a bit of timber on it.

30:59Luke Moore: I think Gareth Bale was saying that. Have you seen some of the knocks they took in the early 80s. I think it is stunning that Liverpool 83-84 played that amount of games. It is mad. And they had an amazing season. I've seen it said before that it's a myth that there are more games now. And this suggests that that may be true. So the final point on that Liverpool 83-84 season is that they played a Danish club called Odense in the first, I think it was the first round of the European Cup. And they won the, I think it was the second leg, 5-0. And in there was an own goal by an Odense player. And the report I read just listed it as own goal.

31:38Didn't bother even naming the guy. So the attention to detail for stats then was probably a little different.

31:43Luke Moore: They didn't give a damn. The supercomputer was a long way away. Well, AC Milan bound Luka Modric has played 71 competitive games this season for club and country as he approaches his 40th birthday. I cannot believe he's going to Milan. I'm delighted he is. He feels abusive. He does. I understand he has... That's not starts. No. Indeed. but still 71 game involvements is that what we call it now it's still quite something though now La Liga president Javier Tebas is very much on board Jim's bandwagon he's vowed to do everything possible to make sure the Club World Cup never happens again he said big clubs ask for more days to rest but they earn 140 million euros twice the Alive's budget and then they ask for more time to prepare he's absolutely fuming with Real Madrid about this yeah But it's like that meme you see on the internet, isn't it?

32:33Oh no, terrible news. The worst person in the world just made a really good point.

32:38Luke Moore: Yeah. Yeah. He's, I mean, this is brilliant in a sense because he's fairly openly fuming with Real Madrid. They already think that his organisation is conspiring against them. Next season is going to be brilliant, isn't it? Yes, it is. Yeah. So, yeah. Javier Tebas could be the man to bring it all down. Coming up after this, a victory for gamers everywhere.

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34:44Luke Moore: Now, everybody, the Club World Cup, of course, isn't the only football happening this weekend. The women's Euros are underway in Switzerland. Bad result for the home side, Switzerland, of course, against Norway. I felt really sorry for them because they were really geeing themselves up for this. They said this could be a game changer for women's football in Switzerland. And look, they're still in the competition. But Norway came along and burst their bubble, Luke Moore. They did. I didn't see this game, but I did see the Spain versus Portugal game. Oh, they look good, Spain. Did you see Esther Gonzalez's first goal?

35:14My goodness me. Ball comes over, completely impromptu, improvised back heel pass. It's already the highlight. It's already the goal of the tournament. I mean, that's churlish. It might not be. But so far, it's certainly the moment of the tournament. They were very dominant.

35:29Luke Moore: They look really, really good. They look tasty, yeah. I think a lot of people talking about Spain, understandably so. England, obviously, as the holders. They start tomorrow night, don't they? They do. Tough first game against France. They're in England, of course, in a group with France, Netherlands, and Wales, Wales, I believe, are playing their first ever major tournament. They are. France and Netherlands. Interesting story with Wales. I know the BBC did a documentary about them the other night and last night saying how the women's team nearly folded like nearly sort of finished and now look at them they're in there which by the way is a disgrace yes I mean the very idea I didn't see the documentary but the very idea that a proud important nation like Wales wouldn't have an international women's football team is ridiculous and it should be called out as such I don't know how close they came to that happening but it should never be even contemplated well they're here they're on the big stage and they're playing at the Euros.

36:22Good luck to them, but not against England.

36:23Luke Moore: Yeah. Exactly, yeah. If you're looking for uninterrupted coverage from on the ground across Euro 2025, then look no further than Upfront, our women's football podcast here at Stack. Chloe Morgan and Rachel O'Sullivan will bring you all the latest from what should be a cracking tournament. They'll be releasing episodes three times a week through the Euros, so hit the link in the episode notes or search Upfront wherever you're listening to this to subscribe now. Right, everybody. It's time for a Robbie Savage update. It's the words that no one wants to hear. Well, we mentioned Savage's interesting move to Forest Green Rovers on Wednesday.

37:02Luke Moore: Well, yesterday, the club announced the permanent signings of three players from Macclesfield FC, where, of course, Savage was the manager. I mean, he was on the board at one point as well, wasn't he? They're a Phoenix club. It's like, that is a quick villain arc. Does it happen all the time, though? Do managers always take players they want? Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, but he did so much for Macclesfield Savage as he's thinking, right, I'm just cashing in a couple of my shares here. We have to get behind the idea that the longer he stays in this job, the less media work he can do. That is the takeaway for me, you two, and everyone listening here.

37:36That's the most important thing. So if this enables him to have success as a novelty celebrity manager at Forest Green Rovers, the fourth one they've had that I can think of, behind Troy Deeney and Duncan Ferguson, the third one, then we need to wish him all the very best. Because if it keeps him off the BBC and it keeps him off TNT, it's something we should all get behind.

38:00Luke Moore: TNT could be no Savage, no Ferdinand. There's definitely going to be no Ferdinand. Yeah, they might simply just be boring. A beige age is on the way. I would take that though. But Forest Green Rovers are a really interesting case because they've clearly got a kind of celebrity owner who likes to do things a bit differently and I'm not criticising him for the way he looks at the world. I actually think if more people looked at the world in that way from an environmental standpoint I think the world would be a better place. It's a bit wacky though. He's very wacky. You should never go full wacky.

38:29That's why I've got a moustache but not turned up at the sides. A moustache is a legitimate facial hair decision.

38:34Luke Moore: But Reynolds had one. Tom Selleck. The moment you start turning up at the sides it gets wacky. And waxy. But what he's... Forrest Green are historically a non-league club. They've had a flirtation of the Football League, they're now back in the non-league. The way that Dale Vince seems to have wanted to do things recently is to grab headlines by hiring managers that have got a story to them, whatever they may be. So Duncan Ferguson didn't last very long. Tough guy. They then made a very strange decision to hire Troy Deeney. Tough guy. Didn't work either. Steve Cottrell, see why that didn't work, and now they've got Robbie Savage.

39:11They've had, I think they've had 10 managers in under four years.

39:19Luke Moore: It's an odd one. You don't want to suddenly make this job into a bit of a poison chalice in the beautiful surroundings of the Cotswolds. But what you do have to acknowledge, and believe me, it pains me to do so, Savage's job as manager at Macclesfield, he did a good job. He did. And he's earned the right to do this. He totally has. I genuinely respect what he did at Macclesfield. There's absolutely no doubt about that. Also as well, you know he's a high profile name and he played you know a load of appearances in the Premier League lots of international caps so I it's a word we don't often think of when talking about Robbie Savage but I think you could say there was maybe an ounce of humility or more modesty when he takes it absolutely you know he goes in at Macclesfield and I think that he is actually the type of guy that in that kind of environment really could thrive as he's shown and say right you know roll your sleeves up lads you know we've got to get out of this division it's going to be difficult and he could be quite a galvanising guy.

40:14Luke Moore: He could rub everybody up the wrong way. The thing is, I suppose, is the Macclesfield part of his career as a manager is slightly different, possibly very different, just because he has an affinity with that part of the world, right? Yeah. I think he ended his career at Stockport, which is near there. He takes on Macclesfield. He's instrumental in what happens there as a Phoenix club. as Jim said he becomes a board member and he's there for a really long time it's like almost five years right so he has an affinity with the place and he identifies with it Forest Green Road is a completely different part of the country different situation no real ties to it I think I'm not suggesting he won't be successful for that point of view but it's a different challenge and we'll find out a lot about whether he is actually a serious guy because the thing about Savage is that I don't personally enjoy his output everyone knows that but the thing that's dogged him is that and I think I personally think just observing him and I've been in I've been in close contact with him on occasion I'm sad to say is that he he's desperate to be taken serious as a guy but nothing he does is really worthy of that so this might be because if he can get them into the football league that'd be a huge achievement getting any team out of that back into the football league back into the football league indeed anybody getting yeah especially if you've dropped out it's so difficult to get out that league and back into the football league.

41:41Luke Moore: So if he can do that, my goodness, what an achievement. And look, they had a respectful season last year. What did they finish third? So there's a chance. And also signing those three players, I mean, two of them were both in the northern premier team of the season. So they've got a bit of pedigree. It's a step up, but we shall see. Now, gentlemen, I want to finish with this. Serie A has lost a lawsuit against a gamer who recreated real goals using the EAFC game, which, of course, used to be FIFA. Seriar had asked the court to confirm that the audio visual rights should be extended to images from games played on consoles that were inspired by real events.

42:19I mean, you probably want to do more detail on this, but just to cut in, I've got so many questions. One is, who on YouTube is doing this? Because I see it happen all the time. Who is actually doing this? It's a real skill though, right? Is it a skill we need though?

42:36Luke Moore: I mean, you know, we're way past that, aren't we? As a society, we are way past that. I don't understand why Serie A care about this specific part. I get the word I want people to upload footage. I think the first question is I wouldn't worry about that. I think it's unnecessary. The second question, yes. Because I think a kid trying to recreate goals on EAFC, the real goals, it's like, surely we all do that? We all did that back in the day? It's just kids wanting to have fun. How harmless is that? Very harmless. And also, I mean, the court decided it was the game of skill. You know, it's not using the game as an instrument to express your own ability within it.

43:16Luke Moore: And crucially, not infringing on the rights. I wouldn't be anywhere near an expert in IP or anything like that. But you're going to have a go. I am, bloody right. This is my time. presumably you know when EAFC do the deals they do for the image rights to the players for the teams and up until very recently it might still be the case that certain teams aren't on there anyway because they can't do those deals once they do those deals you've signed that away right but also as well I just love you've signed that away I love the fact that you might have some miserable sod just watching the game like live stream and going right if he cuts onto his right foot and raffles him in the top corner that's just like that cack off goal for AC Milan he's done it right get on what is this nonsense what it could be is that you know when you're looking for highlights or something and you think you've found them like it's an international week or something and it turns out to be from EAFC that happens all the time yeah and it's really annoying someone's just had enough of that it's like right I'm taking this kid down I am taking this kid down it's the same one every time a few weeks ago remember when the Bulgarian TV channel used those highlights yeah from EAFC instead of actual footage we were discussing the game I'm pretty sure back in the day there was a big boxing fight I forget who it was but a certain channel didn't have the rights so they replay it on a just play Mike Tyson's punch out they got two other guys to do it that's class yeah like a Baddiel and Skinner recreation yeah that's amazing and people will say what's the explanation for that the explanation is it was the 90s yeah that's all you need to know just a bit of banter it was just a bit of fun everybody thank you very much for listening to the Football Ramble part of the ACAST creator network remember we're back later today for Luke's game make sure you subscribe to the Football Ramble in your podcast app so you do not miss it.

44:58Luke Moore: Thank you, Luke Moore. Thank you very much. Thank you, Jim Campbell. Thank you. See you later for Luke's Game, everybody.

45:11The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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45:49Cha-ching! That's the sound of Lowe's Labor Day Savings. Get up to 45 % off select major appliances and save up to an additional$100 on select laundry pairs. Plus, get three bags of Miracle-Gro.75 cubic foot garden soil for just$10. Labor Day deals are on now at Lowe's. In-store and online. Valid through 9-9. While supplies last. Selection varies by location. See Lowe's.com for more details. Soil offer excludes Alaska and Hawaii. Hi all, this is Kim and Penn Holderness from Laugh Line. Summer is here, which means it's officially travel season. And when you're out there making plans, you need somewhere reliable to stay.

46:28That's why Best Western is such a solid option. This summer, get 1 ,000 bonus points and a chance to win 250 ,000 bonus points. So wherever you're headed, make it count with this limited time offer. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at BestWestern.com. No additional purchase necessary for sweeps. See bonus points, T's and C's and sweeps rules for details and visit BestWestern.com for complete terms and conditions. Hi, I'm Max Rushton, the host of The Guardian Football Weekly. Alongside me, Barry Glenn Denning, my co-host. Hey, Barry. Hello. Now, although every American found us during the World Cup, for the two that didn't, what can they expect?

47:01Luke Moore: Found us and fell in love with us, Max. They can expect three episodes each week of occasionally insightful analysis covering the Premier League, Champions League and beyond. Football Weekly is back. Watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts.

47:19Thank you.