Is that the Saturday sacking music?

0:00Pete Donaldson: Youth mental health is a complex challenge that requires comprehensive solutions. We must strengthen after-school programs. We must make digital literacy tools available in our schools. We must work with mental health professionals to support children. And we must empower mentors, educators, and parents to keep kids happy. Learn more about our commitment to finding lasting solutions at empowerourfuturecoalition.com slash solutions. Paid for by the Coalition to Empower Our Future. Hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's podcast, Work Life, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into.

0:40Pete Donaldson: That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 companies use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at ServiceNow.com. Guys, it's no use putting it off. The best time for an underwear refresh is now. Tommy John Underwear is designed for a perfect fit that stays put all day.

1:18Pete Donaldson: There's zero chafe thanks to four times more stretch than competing brands. and their innovative horizontal quick-draw fly is a game-changer. With over 30 million pairs sold, there are thousands of men out there more comfortable than you. Don't settle for less. Go to TommyJohn.com today for 25 % off your first order with code COMFORT. That's TommyJohn.com slash COMFORT. TommyJohn. Comfort perfected.

1:42Marcus Speller: Hi, it's Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman, and I'm here to tell you that Whole Foods Market is in the midst of its fabulous Taste the Mediterranean event with terrific sales on flavors and ingredients, both from and inspired by the region everyone loves. You can save 30 % using your Prime membership on Extra Virgin Olive Oil from California Olive Ranch, DiCecco Pasta, Rayo's Pasta Sauces, San Pellegrino Sparkling Waters and Flavored Bubbly Waters, and Cedar's Hummus. Save during the Taste the Mediterranean event now at Whole Foods Market.

2:21Pete Donaldson: blood donation is now more inclusive. More people are able to donate blood with the American Red Cross through FDA guidelines that eliminate eligibility questions based on sexual orientation. The Red Cross celebrates this historic change and welcomes those who may be newly eligible to donate blood. There's a place for everyone in the mission of the Red Cross. The Red Cross is committed to achieving an inclusive blood donation process that treats all potential donors with equality and respect while maintaining the safety of the blood supply. Join us and help save lives. To learn more and make your appointment to donate blood, visit redcrossblood.org slash LGBTQ.

3:00Pete Donaldson: That's redcrossblood.org slash LGBTQ. Busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained. Prolon's five-day fasting mimicking diet works at the cellular level to rejuvenate you from the inside out, providing real results that include fat-focused, sustainable weight loss with no injection needed. NextGen builds on the original Prolon with 100 % organic soups and teas, a richer taste, and ready-to-eat meals. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute and backed by top medical centers, Prolon supports biological age reduction, metabolic health, skin appearance, fat loss, and energy. Get 15 % off plus a$40 bonus gift when you subscribe at ProlonLife.com.

3:43Pete Donaldson: That's ProlonLife.com.

3:50Luke Moore: We're the Unadvited Guests who stay to the end everybody Welcome to the Football Ramble Arsenal got a huge win in Crystal Bloody Palace It's Monday 29th September I'm Marcus Speller I'm Luke Moore I'm Jim Campbell

4:01Pete Donaldson: And I'm Pete Donaldson

4:14Luke Moore: Hello everybody It's Monday and it's good to be with you What a my goodness is it me or does that Barclays just keep on delivering it is paying out isn't it it's doing it wrong I feel like

4:27Marcus Speller: I've been at the cash point all weekend yeah

4:29Luke Moore: it's spitting 50 pound machine yeah that's the way you should do your banking all the others

4:36Jim Campbell: could take note couldn't they they could genuinely it's one of those weekends where you look around the fixtures you think we could make a case for any one of these games pretty much any one of these games yeah but we can't do that

4:48Marcus Speller: sitting for the next three hours. Lock the doors, as Ken Dodd used to say.

4:52Luke Moore: It's a ramble lock-in. Yeah. Now, of course, the gates to the weekend were shut earlier. And if you're unaware of that, then you're in for a big surprise.

5:03Marcus Speller: Everton and West Ham might have said that tonight.

5:05Luke Moore: Come on, it's a Monday night fixture. A lot of narrative, mate. It's not a Sunday night fixture. It's a match weekend. Right. Well, they operate on a different schedule to the rest of them. if you didn't turn up to work on Monday and your boss said, why were you not in? Well, it's Everton v. Westhouse. Still a weekend, mate. I don't want people to get in trouble. I don't want the economy to suffer even more, Jim.

5:27Marcus Speller: I don't think this show coming out about mid-day and Monday is the reminder people are looking for to go to work.

5:33Jim Campbell: You're listening to us right now and you're not at work. You're late. We're a canary in the mind at best.

5:39Pete Donaldson: Midday, we've got to be careful with our edits.

5:41Luke Moore: That's true, Peter. Well, of course, on Friday, we want to cast our minds back to a thrilling Jack's Encyclopedia that took place. I took on mighty Luke Moore, and Luke was vying to become the first person to unify the lineal belts for Jack's Encyclopedia and my bitty aunt. Did he do it? Well, all I'll say, it was very controversial. We have had tweets. There may well be a campaign of, you know, will the result be null and void? I don't know but you need to go and listen to that show Build Back Better

6:17Pete Donaldson: You're in charge of it Build Back Better I say

6:20Luke Moore: Exactly Peter There's always next week You could listen to that episode below this one in your podcast app and if you like what you hear don't forget to give us a five star review while you're at it we would bloody love that it helps other people find the show thank you for your support come on everybody let's do it together

6:37Marcus Speller: I really enjoyed the show If I had to think of one word to describe the Friday episode of Jackson's Sarcopena, I would say it was bueno, which is obviously Spanish for good. Spanish for good.

6:47Luke Moore: And of course, many other countries speak Spanish as well. Uruguay, I think, doesn't it? They definitely do. Right. It was an all English-speaking affair. Crystal Palace 2, Liverpool 1. Ah, Scalters. Naughty. Crystal Palace 2, Liverpool 1. They've done it. Liverpool have lost the match. it was Liverpool's turn to be on the receiving end of a late winner and former Arsenal man agent Eddie Nketiah won the game for Palace in the 97th minute oh my what an ending to the game Luke Moore

7:19Marcus Speller: it was brilliant it was an amazing end to a really good game and I wonder if actually and maybe this section here today will go towards rectifying it at least from the Rambles point of view but I wonder if Christopas are getting enough respect because I know they've been on this mad unbeaten run they've obviously won a trophy and all the rest of it but they don't really get two trophies well of course if you're going to count the community sure and now Mourinho's back in work we have to of course but they deserve the respect they deserve a huge amount of respect for what they did I know Liverpool had a lot more of the ball I know that they are the kind of name team in the fixture if you like but Palace were excellent they were really really good

8:01Luke Moore: they missed a lot of chances I mean Alisson was formidable he was I think both keepers were to be honest yeah that made an

8:07Pete Donaldson: unbelievable saying that one handed sale off the post oh my god absolutely disgraceful but is he any good with his feet is he any good with his feet that seems to be very popular popular rather do you not think they don't get the respect simply because they have so little possession and they just rely on the counter attack so much and you just don't see them play that much football but counter attack

8:26Marcus Speller: in football is thrilling

8:27Pete Donaldson: well that's it there's a lot of talk were you thrilled I was thrilled answer properly whether you were thrilled or not I was yeah I was massively thrilled by the occasion No, it was an expensive thrill at these Premier League prices, even at Crystal Palace. Do you not think that, because everyone's talking about Glasner potentially, as most good Crystal Palace managers get to, they're usually sort of like, oh, he's going to be out the door, he's going to be picked up by somebody else. I don't think, for example, a Manchester United supporter would want that at the club, so to speak. A guy who can play a back three.

8:58Pete Donaldson: Well, exactly. They have a situation where they want to play great football and they want the ball. but Chris Ballas are being incredibly good with very, very little ball time themselves. So I just think that he's perfect for Chris Ballas. I hope he doesn't move. Not to do a Debbie Downer on everything this morning but that is the talk at the moment that he's going to be moving on. I just hope that doesn't happen because I just don't think any other supporters would go for this really successful 10 % of the ball play.

9:28Luke Moore: Well, I think the thing about Palace and that maybe low percentage you're talking about there is what Palace do excellently is, you know, everybody gets in their position, the shape, the jobs, as you say, quick and on the break and all that. But they know how to set up against bigger sides. That's quite clear what he did. You know, winning the Europa League as he did with Eintracht Frankfurt, Glasner, was a hell of an achievement because they weren't one of the top sides in Germany when he did it. So he knows how to do that. The problem is when you're saying about do they get enough respect and so on, it's when they, say, draw it home with, say, Sunderland, which is a slight disorder.

10:05Luke Moore: But, you know, it's those games. Whereas when Liverpool came to town, I thought, what we're going to see here is we're going to see Palace play almost like the away team, potentially. And it's that away form with Palace that really catches the eye. Because when you go away from home and you are essentially a mid-table Premier League side, which certainly were in the last couple of seasons, the onus is not really on you to go on the front foot. And that massively plays into Palace's hands. And that's what you saw. because Liverpool were pushed right up. But Palace, the way they hunted in packs, the way they pressed that Liverpool back line, Jim, we know that it's by Liverpool's own standards that it's not their strongest area on the pitch.

10:44Luke Moore: I wonder if other teams will look at this and go, oh, hang on a minute.

10:47Jim Campbell: To the old cliche, they can be got at. Absolutely. I think this is part of Glasner's kind of Palace philosophy, really, isn't it? It's to get them to attack, essentially with talons. when they go at teams like that on those breaks it is very very intense and they did this and they seem to be focusing on Ibrahim Kanate which worked because he kind of got himself tied up in knots a couple of times and they were really really direct and essentially took the fight to Liverpool in a way that teams are quite often scared to do and this is something that Palace are particularly good at, it's not having respect for their opponents in the sense that you don't go in there with any fear you trust the structure almost I think that's part of because obviously you mentioned Man United earlier Pete and they are playing a really similar style and that's the that's the difference when it's night and day these Palace players they know it inside out and they trust it and they feel secure in it and it allows them an enormous amount of freedom when they're sort of going on their attacking for A's whereas with Man United who I know we're not talking about it's the complete opposite and we saw the absolute best of it today because or on Saturday rather because you know it wasn't like a scraped 2-1 was it despite the circumstances of it they were good for it they had some really great chances in the first half waving his hands going come on come on everybody and when he hit the post as well that was an inch away from being an absolute screamer and Alisson had to work very very hard they were really really worth this win

12:09Pete Donaldson: for the goals like Sark completely unmarked on the goal line he had so much time to do anything with that it was actually Gravenberg who knocked it back in I think wasn't it it was a bit of a mess

12:19Luke Moore: it was great having Sark back in there because on Friday I thought you know

12:21Marcus Speller: he wasn't going to be fit

12:23Luke Moore: wasn't going to be fit and then he goes and he gives so much to them Luke

12:25Marcus Speller: but it's like

12:27Luke Moore: this Palace side they are in their own way when teams think what's the profile of our side or what is our style of playing you know how they're going to play you know what they're going to do you know Munoz is going to be absolutely charging up and down that right flank and Tyrek Mitchell to give him credit as well because sometimes we focus on the right side Mitchell's been very good this season as well you know what they're going to do a team still maybe when you know was it Pete you were saying a minute ago that a team's not really giving them the respect that they're due they're thinking well okay but it's Palace they're still you know we should be able to do this teams are going to have to really look at them and go right we're going to have to focus on how they play and adjust our system a little bit more

13:09Marcus Speller: well it might work in their favour the question I asked at the top was whether they get enough respect if they don't get enough respect I'm sure it works in their favour because you know they're not I mean in the weird way they are quite fashionable aren't they they are kind of everyone seems to kind of like them and watch them

13:23Luke Moore: yeah be a neutral's favourite I think yeah yeah

13:26Marcus Speller: on the Glasner thing as well don't forget he turned down Bayern Munich he turned down Bayern Munich fairly recently I think he's kind of enjoying being at Crystal Palace that's the thing I hope he sticks around he loves it there and you know he's obviously got a European campaign to look forward to this season and you see

13:39Luke Moore: what the club think when the reports were saying Mark Gay if he goes then I'm not I'm not sticking around now I know he sort of he suggested

13:46Pete Donaldson: but he said he didn't say that

13:48Luke Moore: well indeed

13:48Pete Donaldson: and even if he did I mean that's just classic manager chairman brinkmanship isn't it really

13:52Luke Moore: yeah he said say what Liverpool could have done with Mark Gay at the back on the outside. He got the assist, didn't he? Another little bit of narrative there.

14:00Marcus Speller: He cleared it up, Glasner, or massaged it, whatever you want to call it, by saying that he made it clear to the ownership that if we couldn't get a replacement in, it would be a ridiculously stupid thing to do to let him go. And obviously, they kept him. But when did he say that? Exactly, yeah.

14:14Luke Moore: He's about to sign it, we don't get a replacement, so it's not as we, you know, all of it.

14:17Marcus Speller: But I do think that, you know, part of the chat around Liverpool this year so far has been they keep winning, they keep making it happen, and they keep finding a way. And of course, Crystal Palace found a way against them. But I do think, based on what we saw in this game, Crystal Palace appeared to be the team that were most able to lay bare the shortcomings that people suspect Liverpool may have. And I'll just give you a few examples, right? You mentioned Munoz there. He's one of the best players in the league in that position. Kyrkos had a really difficult time and there's been question marks over Kyrkos, right?

14:51Marcus Speller: Kyrkos, sorry. The right-back position is also a little bit of a problem for Liverpool. Conor Bradley got dragged at halftime. Isaac has been a massive chat, you know, since he's moved and the circumstances around that. Didn't really do much. Got subbed off. Mohamed Salah, how long is he going to keep going for? We suspect he'll probably have another really good season. Again, really quiet. You know, so there's lots of... Connate, his contract, the centre-back situation at Liverpool. Gahey, they want him. Connate has a bit of a torrid time as well. So it was... Palace were really, really good.

15:24Marcus Speller: laying bare the kind of perhaps insecurities that Liverpool may have on the way to defending the Premier League title this season and that's fascinating. What's also fascinating is whether Crystal Palace can last the course because they've become so used to not being beaten and they've been doing so well that when the European football stuff starts to bite the Christmas period gets difficult all the usual stuff we talk about and teams start sitting

15:48Luke Moore: deep against them.

15:51Marcus Speller: It might get quite interesting but whatever happens now I think you can understand that currently as we sit here now, Palace are kind of best of the rest team in the Premier League and they look amazing doing it. And the final thing I wanted to say is they consistently lose really key players and they still manage to find a way to absorb that, right? Which is a great thing. If you think it's not just Eza, it's, you know, before that, it's Alise, who's a world-class player, by the way. You know, he's in the Ballon d 'Or shortlist, you know, and before that, it's Zaha, of course, and one or two others that I've probably disrespected by not naming.

16:22Marcus Speller: So all in all, fantastic. Really well balanced as well. And you are right to kind of, Pete, I think it was who said it first, to kind of make this comparison to Manchester United because clearly, you know, if you look at the money that's been spent and you look at the profile of player that United go after, they would probably be seen reputationally to be of more respect than a lot of these Crystal Palace players. But clearly, Glasner has them per and he hasn't played so well.

16:49Luke Moore: Well, it's the place where you'd want to play. if you're a player who's maybe not quite at elite level or you're thinking maybe one day Champions League or whatever, Palace is like you'd want to go there. I know money talks and all that but the spirit they have down there, the vibe, if you will.

17:06Marcus Speller: It's probably the most exquisite vibe in the Premier League. It's the best vibe. It's got to be, isn't it? I think it's the best one.

17:11Jim Campbell: Well, it's a so far undefeated vibe which speaks for itself.

17:14Marcus Speller: I mean, I live in the area, Jim, so I absorb the vibe. Well, you're on the ground.

17:18Jim Campbell: Tell us. How is it on the streets? Much like Ebenezer,

17:20Marcus Speller: good you created the vibe i couldn't get a wink of sleep last night it was like a copa cabana

17:24Pete Donaldson: down there but he's not in all weekend but glaz is not not just taking any you know young promising talent and putting them in the side like essa for example he's sort of yeah very promising footballer in any other football team he'd be on the he'd be in that kind of um copy me a new kind of position uh of you'd see him a lot more but he's gone he's not good enough right now so he's just he's in he's playing in the premier league too no but you're right though because when when

17:46Luke Moore: they signed him and then they sold you knew Ezzet was going to, I wondered if Ezzet might come into the side but you know it's a good point.

17:53Marcus Speller: Can I ask another question really quickly about, what I found really interesting about the game was it was exactly the thing that Jamie Carragher was fearful of when he interviewed on the slot a few weeks ago where he said you're being too offensive you're leaving it too open at the back I don't like to see this as a Liverpool fan and he showed him, I don't know if you remember the actual footage but he showed him the video clip of Liverpool bombing on forward and not leaving the back door wide open. And Slott kind of laughed off and chuckled away like he's... Like that kind of, you know, that avuncular kind of way that he is.

18:25Marcus Speller: Not laughing now, is he? No, but that was exactly what the problem was in this game.

18:29Luke Moore: Yeah, and it's been surprising. I mean, I say no one else has exploited it. Clearly they have. I mean, the 10 men of Newcastle United in that game did that. You know, again, it slightly surprised me that the way Liverpool have been pegged back in a lot of games, even against Everton, when Liverpool was so good in that game at Anfield the other week in the first half and then Everton just it's like Liverpool just thought right well we'll just knock it down to second gear and we should be okay and Everton were like well alright we'll you know I understand Liverpool won the game that's the most important thing I totally get it we're aware of that but I just wonder if it's a case of I want to say

19:07Pete Donaldson: Ramping it up for 110 at the 110 minute mark pretty much you know what I mean like or the 100 minute mark 100 minute mark is well it just seems like it just gets longer and longer these football matches but including the injury time the first half as well like it takes a lot out of your body it takes a lot out of your squad however big it is and however successful it is you take a lot out of your body take a lot out of my body I put a lot into my body it takes a lot out of my body yeah yeah yeah what's the sort of the net

19:31Marcus Speller: oh he's in his overdraft speaking of Barclays it's overdraft time

19:35Pete Donaldson: I've got HSBC loans all over the place

19:37Luke Moore: deep into the bone marrow yeah I just I think with Liverpool I think people will look at this and go yeah like it gives them a little bit more something because when you look at that Liverpool starting line-up, Jim, I mean, on paper... It feels unfair, doesn't it? Well, it does. On paper, it's impressive. And look, let's not be silly here. You know, they've lost their first game this season. Not take the piss. Yeah, just not take the piss here. But you do wonder if teams will go, oh, yeah, let's not be so afraid of them.

20:05Jim Campbell: Absolutely. I mean, they've conceded seven goals so far in six games, which seems high for a team, you know, rated as they are. and I suppose you've got to look at the centre-backs haven't you because obviously Canate had a bit of a difficult game obviously Virgil van Dijk is imperious I find Canate inconsistent well indeed and the only other real specialist option for either of them is Joe Gomez because they lost Giovanni Leone to a long-term injury unfortunately and obviously they would have wanted to bring in Mark Gay on top of Leone anyway and they couldn't quite manage to do it so you know that's probably going to show some wear and tear the three of those between now and January.

20:41Jim Campbell: I assume they'll probably fix the problem then, but it's an area for concern.

20:47Marcus Speller: But I find it is an area of concern. I don't have anything too much to disagree with that, but I do think the whole thing is connected because I don't think you see the same amount of control from Gravenberch and McAllister that you saw last season. And we're still waiting for that to happen. I think Gravenberch has been pretty good overall. McAllister hasn't been as good. They've also got this really big conundrum with Florian Verts, who seems to not have really been able to pick up the pace of the Premier League at all. You've seen a little bit of improvement of him. Yeah. Flashes of it. He's now been moved out to the left.

21:15Marcus Speller: The Eketike brain fart thing has messed him around a bit as well because it means Subozlai's move position means they bring Bradley in. The whole thing does seem to be a bit of a moving feast at the moment and you're right to point out that the goal is conceded because you think about a team defending the Premier League title who's strengthened and they won the Premier League at Akan to last season and they've strengthened. There doesn't seem to be an awful lot of control and what you can fall into the trap of when you're watching football like we do and you know in the way that we have to watch it to do the show is you can start to get seduced by the results and the results of course have been good until they're not and then it becomes really interesting to see how they respond because they've got Galatasaray away in the Champions League then they've got Chelsea away who have obviously had their own problems we'll find out a bit more about them I think in the next week or so well I think as well

22:01Luke Moore: we've been conditioned in the last however many years of Guardiola's Man City Klopp's Liverpool and to obviously a lot lesser extent, but I still think for the point I'm about to make, it's worthy to even mention Arteta's Arsenal. We're conditioned in that team has to be perfect to win the league. And the reason why I mentioned Arsenal and Arteta is because they've been on just the wrong side of that, obviously, a couple of times, not last season. But you think, oh, well, a team's got to be imperious. Straight from the off, that's the way it goes. It comes from competing with Guardiola City. Exactly.

22:36Luke Moore: He's the one that set the bar. You're absolutely right. pre-Guardiola's Manchester City, there was a bit more ebb and flow. I'm sure there's the odd exception. I mean, Mourinho getting Mourinho's Chelsea 95 points and all that, but a little bit more ebb and flow. So, you know, if, say, Ferguson's Man Utd did sort of lose a couple of games in a row or there was a bit of a sticky start, whatever, you'd say, OK, well, it's early days and so on. So maybe we're thinking, oh, it's not a crisis at Liverpool, far from it. But clearly, I think maybe, and I've done it a little bit myself, you project onto them, oh, this team's indestructible.

23:07Luke Moore: and then at the start of the season despite them still largely picking up wins you're kind of going oh right I'm expecting a bit more whereas it's still early days and they're figuring out that front line as well I know that Verts' price tag and Isaac's price tag suggests that well for that amount of money they should be able to just go straight in there and it would be all seamless but football doesn't work like that of course it doesn't so as you say look it'd be interesting in the next couple of minutes but what about those Eagles though eh? what about those Eagles what about Glasner

23:34Pete Donaldson: celebrating in his 13 year old tracksuit kind of Storm Island ultra kind of vibe running up and down the touchline he kind of ran stopped then realised I don't have a shoes for it technical area

23:44Luke Moore: was it a shoes thing am I going to get can you var a manager

23:47Pete Donaldson: he sort of stopped and then went back I presume that was because he wasn't wearing cleats I just thought it was

23:52Marcus Speller: a very Austrian thing to do I just thought it was very kind of explain why would you Austrian don't want to break the rules right stickler for the rules yeah that part of the world Germany Austria very sticklers for the rules yeah I think he kind of caught himself he thought I can't I can't be fully British here. I have to go back a bit here.

24:10Luke Moore: It's funny though, but there's rankings, isn't it? Because some people might think we're sticklers for the rules. Depends who you're comparing to.

24:15Marcus Speller: The Germans are though.

24:16Luke Moore: No, no, I agree with that. We're just like a Q.

24:20Marcus Speller: I told you before, I might sit on the show last week.

24:22Luke Moore: You're queuing up to celebrate the last ready winner.

24:25Marcus Speller: After you, after you. I told you, I might mention on the show, I just told you when I was chatting to you that I went to visit my friend in Munich 18 months ago and while I was there, his next door neighbour were knocking on his door complaining that his leaves had blown into his garden. Yeah, it's great.

24:39Luke Moore: Crossing a road there. I was in Vienna. Vienna's amazing. Big boulevard, you're a beautiful city and all that. You can see, as far as the eye can see, there's not a car coming, right? We're still Red Man. Yeah, they were. And I was like, Oi, watch this locals. Yeah. Got run over. It's funny, isn't it?

24:55Marcus Speller: I've seen in Berlin, I've seen people at two in the morning waiting for the green man on the way back from the nightclub. Love it. No cars around. This is how it is. I know Germany and Austria aren't the same but we've just won the Ryder Cup for Europe so we're all the same today that's right let's talk about American jaywalking yeah

25:12Luke Moore: they do it properly yeah so I really want to see

25:17Marcus Speller: what the Palace going back to Palace I really want to see what the Palace ceiling is definitely they can absolutely win in Europe this year they can definitely do that well that yeah

25:25Luke Moore: I mean yeah the Conference League is there

25:26Marcus Speller: especially a cup competition

25:27Pete Donaldson: you have to go out and win you have to go out and attack at some point a team you're going to face but they do attack

25:32Marcus Speller: but they counter attack

25:33Pete Donaldson: no no other teams are going to have to come out because you have to win a competition, don't you? It always depends on what they're facing, isn't it?

25:43Marcus Speller: Did you like that when there was a long throw? Do you know what? It's funny.

25:48Luke Moore: Watching the game, as I legally did, by the way. Good for you. Well done, mate. When you have that, you're about to do the long throw, because I thought to myself, all this long throw business, it's like with corners. Whatever the stats are, that it's very unlikely to lead to a goal. And are we getting... Unless you play West Ham. Well, maybe, yeah. That's very true. Are we actually... Is it just going too much the other way? Are you actually better off doing a quick short throw because you've still got possession of the ball and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But there was something about it when it was like, oh, it's going to be a long throw and it's going to be chaos.

26:19Luke Moore: Yeah. And of course, that's what we got. But Eddie and Ketit, a very composed finish.

26:23Jim Campbell: Really cool composed finish and a difficult finish as well. To take it down in the way he did and just nutmeg Alison with that was really impressive. But I think...

26:32Luke Moore: slightly misleading to call it a nutmeg I think that counts he latched his eyes he could he wasn't going for that

26:38Marcus Speller: he would have preferred top right if he could did it go through the legs it did yeah no further questions your honour indeed

26:44Jim Campbell: watching the highlights of all of the games and obviously the games I watched live this weekend I think every team at least once tried a big old Rory the Lap long throw to the bottom every single team it is here to stay

26:56Marcus Speller: in the May United Brentford game well the Brentford May United game I should say which I think we'll come on to later on CoCom Lucy Ward she had to say about four different times that you can't score direct from a throw in and I was thinking I thought we moved on

27:10Luke Moore: from this

27:11Marcus Speller: Premier League chat like this and by the way

27:13Luke Moore: that rule needs to change yeah I agree if you can't do it

27:16Marcus Speller: you used to be able to do it

27:18Luke Moore: you can score from a corner you can score from a goal kick as unlikely as it is like just it used to be different

27:24Marcus Speller: they changed it

27:25Luke Moore: is it because it would be scoring with the hands moving I think it probably is you just can't be doing that it's fun though isn't it I know Jim you're talking to me you know Jim are we going to start

27:34Pete Donaldson: seeing you know in handball they cover the balls in that horrible sticky muck right and then at the end of the day you've got to squish it off the ball again and clean it

27:44Luke Moore: was that what Nick Pope had in his town yeah

27:47Marcus Speller: goalkeepers used to have that sticky stuff on their gloves do they not still I don't know they still do they used to I don't know they still do I haven't seen a professional goalkeeper's gloves for a very long time

27:54Pete Donaldson: a bit of pritch stick put it on there don't let them put Vaseline on it inexplicably Jim Layton used to put Vaseline on his eyebrows didn't he get the sweat out Marcus he did yeah

28:03Marcus Speller: just give his eyebrows which are evolutionary designed to keep the sweat out of your eyes just give him a little boost Neville Southall

28:08Pete Donaldson: Neville just had a whole pot on his head yeah Petroleum J

28:12Marcus Speller: that'll burn after a while as well

28:13Luke Moore: fit the vibe that was post-match though

28:16Marcus Speller: well done it's Vaseline

28:18Luke Moore: there were eight goals scored in the 90th minute or later in the Premier League on Saturday the most ever in a single day in the competition's history

28:24Marcus Speller: that's mud in the eye for people who leave early is it good game management or terrible game management

28:28Luke Moore: I just think tiredness We should enjoy it. We're going to talk about another one of those goals after the break. But before we go for a break, duty bound to tell you that former Liverpool man John Joe Shelby has found a new club. He signed for Arabian Falcons in the UAE third tier.

28:45Marcus Speller: Quite a bold move for a man who's literally been fined for being racist about Arabic people.

28:49Luke Moore: Did you say bold or bold move? Both. Yeah.

28:52Pete Donaldson: A bold, bold move. I very much enjoy his shirt's got a flannel sponsorship on it. His new shirt. Can't escape the tendrils of Ashley. Is Ashley connected? He owns flannels, doesn't he? Yeah, but he's connected.

29:05Jim Campbell: John Joe Shelby has signed a contract with Mike Ashley at some point. If he's not read it properly, he probably still will be advertising flannels.

29:12Marcus Speller: You going to the UAE third tier now?

29:13Jim Campbell: We've got a clause covering it.

29:15Pete Donaldson: Half of the Arabian Falcons Wikipedia is dedicated to a Nandoz sponsorship. That's how big they are. They're a very new club. They're obsessed with Nandoz.

29:23Luke Moore: It's at UAE third tier. They must have money.

29:26Pete Donaldson: They've just been promoted, so I imagine there's probably a bit of Bunce kicking around. I see.

29:31Luke Moore: I don't think John Joe Shelby's going there to build the club.

29:33Marcus Speller: I mean, what other possible explanation could there be? I'm just saying, I'd love to hear this.

29:37Luke Moore: It's just disappointing. He's not going to get back in the England squad if he's going to be playing. I know, you're quite right.

29:41Pete Donaldson: You're quite right. Well done, mate. All right, coming up after this,

29:44Luke Moore: Arsenal break their curse at St. James' Park. Oh.

29:58Pete Donaldson: at Whole Foods Market with a vibrant selection that captures the flavors of the region. Shop coastal favorites like responsibly farmed whole bronzini and jumbo white shrimp and pair them with specialty pastas, robust olive oils, and aromatic sauces directly sourced from the Mediterranean. Want a fast and easy dinner? Grab refreshing Greek salads and tortellini from the prepared foods department. Taste the Mediterranean now at Whole Foods Market. When it comes to managing money, forget the hype and look at the results. Bill has a trillion dollars of secure payments powering our BillPay tools. Instead of just moving money, Bill is powering the financial operations of nearly half a million customers.

30:41Pete Donaldson: So stop the guesswork and start scaling with the proven choice. Ready to talk with an expert? Visit Bill.com slash proven to get started. And grab a$250 gift card as a thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details. Youth mental health is a complex challenge that requires comprehensive solutions. We must strengthen after-school programs. We must make digital literacy tools available in our schools. We must work with mental health professionals to support children. And we must empower mentors, educators, and parents to keep kids happy. Learn more about our commitment to finding lasting solutions at empowerourfuturecoalition.com slash solutions.

31:22Pete Donaldson: Paid for by the Coalition to Empower Our Future. Studies show that 100 % of everybody in the world wants to curl up indoors and do nothing because it's so darn cold out there. That's why many people are turning to Bombas, whose pillowy plush slippers and warm merino wool socks have been said to be the most comfortable in the history of feet. Bombas products have been found to boost coziness by up to 1 million percent. OK, enough fake statistics, but could Bombas socks and slippers really be the cure? Go to bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com and use code audio.

32:02Marcus Speller: Manchester United, it can't get any worse, can it?

32:05Luke Moore: It can. What about the football ramble?

32:09Marcus Speller: Is that Joe Hart doing Mick McCarthy?

32:11Luke Moore: It sounds like it, doesn't it?

32:12Marcus Speller: I think it's Joe Hart doing an impression of Mick McCarthy. That's amazing.

32:16Luke Moore: Thanks to Friend of the Ramble Curly for sending us that clip on Discord.

32:19Marcus Speller: Joe Hart's had an amazing post-career glow up.

32:21Luke Moore: That's a good impression as well.

32:24Marcus Speller: Multi-talented. That neck's got a lot of impressions in it. It's a storage space for impressions.

32:29Jim Campbell: Storage neck.

32:30Luke Moore: I suppose it's a good start if you're going to do impressions. Mick McCarthy's a nice one. He did himself in, yeah. It's an entry-level drug, isn't it? You could do Mick, can you? Everybody can. Okay. It can. Oh, maybe it's more difficult than I thought.

32:46Jim Campbell: It can.

32:48Marcus Speller: It can't get worse than this, can it, Mick? It can. It can. It can. It can. Perfect. McCarthy's there. Four of them.

32:58Luke Moore: You can become a friend of the Ramble too for just five bucks a month. Search painter.com forward slash football Ramble to get involved. You can talk to people like Curly who provides those kind of clips. Now then, it was the Jim Donaldson derby. The Jim Donaldson derby. That's a man that we all know who supports both Arsenal and Newcastle. Or Mikel Moreno Derby, of course. Newcastle United won Arsenal too. They did it, Jim. They did.

33:22Jim Campbell: I've been saying quite consistently this season in those bigger games, in the away games in particular, that they've wanted to see a bit more attacking intent and a bit more kind of pro-action from Arsenal. And that's exactly what they got. And it was a much better performance than those other away performances so far. It feels like that's been a little bit timid before. and this fixture last season was night and day for this. I mean, Arsenal just didn't turn up in it at all. They were terrible last season. Probably the worst performance of the season.

33:47Pete Donaldson: They were never going to be that bad but they can be bullied, I think. Yeah, absolutely. But I think part of that is

33:54Jim Campbell: when you get a big physical, attritional encounter like that, part of it is managing it emotionally, right? Yeah. And there were times where I thought they've just fallen into that trap again and they're not doing that.

34:03Pete Donaldson: First half Arteta was a mess. He was like looking at the iPad, running over, shouting at the floor for the fixture. Was he playing Angry Birds? I don't know what he was. They're doing it again. Big meaty men slapping meat and I'm scared. Yeah.

34:17Jim Campbell: But they managed that really well and they kind of got, essentially got stuck into that battle. Yeah. And yeah, I thought they were really, really good. Obviously, Trossard hits the post in the first half. Nick Pope had a really, really good game. He made some great saves. Amazing save, the first one from Eze. Yeah. And Eze was brilliant. Yeah, he was. And also, I'm really impressed by the strength Eze has in that position because obviously, I'm assuming part of the reason he's gone for Mourinho in that midfield ahead of Ezzel in some previous games is to keep that kind of physicality up. But he can handle that.

34:45Jim Campbell: He can play that sort of game. And I was very, very impressed by that.

34:48Marcus Speller: I thought it was a really fierce, competitive game. It was the most competitive Premier League game of the weekend, for sure. It felt really intense. It felt like a fight. And it felt like Newcastle had set out, as they have before, to really give Arsenal an examination. Like to really say, we're going to play to our strengths here. We've got this amazing crowd behind us always. and we feel like we've got Arsenal's number, right? And for Arsenal to stand up to it, I thought it was like genuinely really impressive. I thought that, you know, there were times when it felt like Arsenal might crumble.

35:21Marcus Speller: They might kind of buckle under it.

35:24Luke Moore: But Gabriel did, of course.

35:25Marcus Speller: I thought Gabriel had a really, really strange game.

35:27Jim Campbell: That 1-0 scoreline to me at one point, it's like, this feels like a really uncomfortable pair of slippers that I hate to insist on wearing.

35:34Marcus Speller: I find Gabriel of course at his best is really really good he's like a really really good defender

35:40Luke Moore: he's one of the best defenders in the world

35:41Marcus Speller: yeah he's brilliant but I still sometimes I think he makes odd decisions yeah

35:46Jim Campbell: again I think this is part of what we're saying about the emotional side of the game because he's got massively caught up in that he had an exceptional game on one hand and a mad one on the other

35:55Luke Moore: totally agree maybe that was a bit over the top one of the best defenders of the world certainly in the league you know but you're right he can be so so good whereas that with the goal he can head that away I don't think he can

36:09Jim Campbell: head it away I think part of the problem why he's kind of involved himself in that ridiculous carry on is that he wasn't set properly when the ball came in so I don't think he's able to get up and head it away so he's made that daft decision to pretend he's been fouled it's a really

36:24Marcus Speller: it's a red flag always when particularly centre-halves look to referees to bail them out of physical situations you see it all the time when defenders are running back towards their own goal with a striker with them and they'd come together. It never used to happen, really. The defenders would go down. They'd always try and be strong. And I think if you're asking the referee to make a decision for you, particularly with something that's quite as frivolous as that, really, you deserve everything you get. And Volta Mardy's going to give you, to use that word again, a big examination. I mean, he's powerful.

36:52Marcus Speller: I think Pete said a while back, he does drop deep and likes to get involved in the play, but he's still very powerful in the penalty area. Oh, he's massive, isn't he? Yeah, yeah.

36:59Pete Donaldson: If he's not getting something on that header, there's a real problem. I mean, it's kind of, there were a lot of handballs. There were a lot of AR decisions to be made in this football match. And I thought that was going to overshadow the entire thing. But in the end, it was quite a cleanly and keenly contested fight.

37:17Marcus Speller: What did you make of the penalty decision that was overturned?

37:19Pete Donaldson: I think it is the least, I think it's the most penalty-ish non-penalty I've seen in a long time. It's hard, isn't it? Hard to work it out. I thought Newcastle got away with that. you thought it was

37:31Luke Moore: you thought it was more of a penalty than Josh King at Aston Villa yes pretty much I mean that was crazy we're not talking about Fulham today but bloody hell

37:41Pete Donaldson: but I think the problem was that it just took a long time for it to decide on the what's up lately I thought

37:47Luke Moore: if I mentioned Joe Hart actually did a nice bit on that I didn't see it where he said actually if you look and he explains he gets enough on the ball for it to change direction and then Pope plants his foot He's not getting sent off at that point. No, he plants his foot on the ground. And then... Jokeres. Jokeres goes into his knee and he's saying that as his foot is then planted on the ground, it was deemed that he wasn't using a forward motion. It was like Jokeres is then deemed to sort of run into him. So very technical... Milliseconds.

38:20Jim Campbell: Well, this is it, isn't it, in these situations. Once I saw the replay and I saw that he got a touch, I thought that will be overturned. Right. And part of the thinking is because once he gets the touch on the ball, he's essentially made a tackle. And then anything that happens after that happens so quickly that there's nothing either player can do about it. Unless it's excessively violent, which it wasn't, it was absolutely a readable amount of force and of contact from Nick Pope. You just got to give him credit for essentially making a save with his foot there. It's on the borderline. I totally see that.

38:52Jim Campbell: Because it was so quick,

38:53Pete Donaldson: I think that's why I think Nick Pope got away with it a little bit. Do you know what I mean? because he has been known to sort of make Magnusons. He doesn't know much about it.

39:00Marcus Speller: No, exactly. I think that's possibly an interesting angle to it. It's not that Poe... The intention. No, exactly. And so there have been decisions earlier this season, I'm sure, that have been similar to that. It was the Robert Sanchez one for Chelsea against Man United a bit like that as well.

39:15Jim Campbell: Yeah, but that was a lot more excessive, wasn't it, in terms of the force of it. Yeah, yeah. Which is the whole point, right?

39:21Marcus Speller: Yeah, but he did get the ball first.

39:23Jim Campbell: Yeah, but he got a lot more of the man, though, didn't he?

39:26Marcus Speller: Can't be a penalty, of course, because he was nowhere near the penalty area.

39:33Jim Campbell: Say what you like about that challenge. I wasn't in the penalty area. Yeah, exactly. Not a pen.

39:37Marcus Speller: I was away from home. I just felt like on behalf of, you know, I'm not an Arsenal fan, but trying to empathise with the Arsenal fans would have felt like that winner could very well be a massive moment for them. I mean, it's very early in the season, of course. It's not like you're doing that in April when it's really key. but, you know, these things do matter and I just feel they'll come away from that thinking we've been given a thorough good going over here and we've still come out the other side and we've got three points on a weekend where Liverpool lost the game and I think last season...

40:11Marcus Speller: Oh, they were terrible at that last season. Yeah, someone said last season, I don't think Arsenal at any point took any advantage of any of Liverpool's dropped points. So something like that, some of the stats was quite interesting.

40:19Luke Moore: Well, let me ask you a question though. I know it's early days, but is this, was this the weekend where the titles won and lost?

40:27Marcus Speller: spoken like a true person who predicted Arsenal to win the league this season I'll tell you something I'm feeling they're up to second and he's like cash in cash in Fox Mulder I want to believe I want to believe

40:41Luke Moore: look yes indeed you're right to say that Liverpool are still top of the league in any title talk but I think that your mind does ever so slightly glance there and think for some reason and this weekend feels, I'm like 5 % more confident that Arsenal can properly mount a title challenge here. And it was a big weekend for that because what you just said is absolutely true. And we give Liverpool all the credit in the world for finding a way to win a match, right? As you should do. And as we have done this season, Arsenal won the damn game. And as you, I think you said, whether it was on this show or in our WhatsApp group, it was like last season, they just don't win that game.

41:19Luke Moore: No, absolutely not. Because even when Marino scores the equaliser, you think, A little bit like Manchester City, when they get that equaliser much later, you kind of think... What a header, by the way. Lovely header. Lovely glance. You think to yourself, okay, fair enough, you're probably not going to lose the game now. So therefore, that's obviously a better result than a loss. But you're thinking, but the way Arsenal played, the efforts they had off the post, are you going to be going, yeah, it's still a draw though. Again, it feels maybe like two points loss. But then Gabriel nods in.

41:50Jim Campbell: I think part of it was the sort of attritional nature of that fixture and what it's become as well. They really, really wanted to win that game. And it was personal almost. It became, obviously, you know, you want the points, but that was an extra little bit of fuel for that. Completely agree. I think, you know, last season they don't win that game. They don't manage to turn a draw into a win from that point. And it's a difficult one. It's an interesting point Arsenal find themselves at now because they've had a difficult start. You've got Anfield away and St. James' Park away. Anfield away. Along with Man City at home.

42:22Jim Campbell: so that's a bit of an MOT in itself now they've lost to Anfield where they got a point last season they've drawn to City where they won last season they lost this game last season and they were terrible and they get a win so it's like okay that sort of redresses the balance a little bit I was thinking before this game if they don't get the result there it's probably you probably look at those games and think that's maybe a C I think maybe maybe a B minus B now so it's the performances are getting better the midfield's starting to gel don't let the nerds get involved

42:47Marcus Speller: in football anymore giving out grades giving out grades now

42:49Luke Moore: I mean I was saying the other day you know there's a lot of people where even away at Manchester United you know Anfield you said I want a little bit more just a little bit more I completely left Old Trafford out of that that's how far they'd done fallen yeah exactly and I feel that it's a lovely holiday now

43:04Marcus Speller: well indeed

43:05Luke Moore: and it would have been funny because as you mentioned we got that little bit more they substituted better as well yeah but they also got the result because giving a little bit more and oh but we didn't win the game giving a little bit you do feel that surely now the general encouragement or whatever be the word, the confidence they'll gain from this, the feeling that will give them is going to be massive. And it's like, right, this league title is up for grabs this early in the season. Of course it is. But we see Liverpool. You've got to take advantage now. Any point you can get over your rival going for that race is very important.

43:43Luke Moore: Liverpool looked a little bit shaky against Palace. This is the time to do it because if Liverpool click and they sort it out, again, that team looks frightening.

43:51Marcus Speller: Yeah, can I make one point of order before we move on which is that I spent quite a lot of time when Harry Kane was still in the Premier League talking about the way he backs into defenders when they're jumping up to head the ball it's really dangerous and it shouldn't happen William Saliba's challenge on Tino Livramento was also really dangerous it looks like Livramento might have quite a serious injury off the back of it Yeah, a lot of weight on his knee Yeah, given that he's had a cruise ship before I think Livramento hasn't he a few years ago I think that's something that if possible the referees can spend a little bit less time worrying about fine details of vile decisions and a little bit more time protecting the safety of the players in that situation.

44:30Marcus Speller: I think we'd all appreciate it because if Liverman is out for the rest of the season with a knee, that's really, really disappointing. He's a great player. He's had a really good start to the season. England interest there as well. He's absolutely needless from Saliba to do it. I don't get why players aren't getting clamped down on doing it. It's not having a go at him in particular. A lot of players do it. Just that was the example what we saw at the weekend.

44:51Pete Donaldson: Charlie made the point that Liverman was six foot tall but he doesn't look it because the rest of the team is massive. Also,

44:59Marcus Speller: if someone is playing fullback, Dan Burns, this is a poor example because Dan Burns on the other side. You think of someone playing fullback you start to assume they're shorter. Five foot seven creek. It's a short position. One of the weird things

45:09Jim Campbell: I've seen Gabriel and Nick Valtomar argue is we all know how massive Gabriel is and Valtomar is towers above him. It's incredible.

45:18Pete Donaldson: We talk about game management in this game. I'm not a big bet man, but I did wait until halftime, put on a five-mile bet on Joel Linton, get a yellow card. So, salve for my wounds. Because that was nailed on.

45:30Luke Moore: Excellent stuff. And you spent it all on sweeties, probably. Yeah, and I just look at it and go,

45:34Pete Donaldson: that's mine. That£10 is mine. Nippy sweeties.

45:39Luke Moore: Well, staying with teams in the European positions, and a team from the North East, of course, did get a victory on the weekend. Nottingham Forest, nailed Sunderland one. Yeah, massive. Pete Dawson, Sunderland.

45:49Marcus Speller: can't wait for the YouTube comments on that since Peter's comments on Sunderland apparently I've

45:53Luke Moore: changed my stripes literally in this case Sunderland fifth in the table just four points off Liverpool I've got a question for Sunderland can you?

46:02Pete Donaldson: well I mean it's not just about the Premier League it's about the defensive league and I know you like the defence league Marcus hang on what? what are you talking about? the English defence league it was a joke about Marcus

46:13Jim Campbell: you've really he'll defend it

46:15Pete Donaldson: onto me in a minute

46:17Jim Campbell: you're just trying to deflect the Sunderland fans away from you I am yeah yeah okay fine

46:21Pete Donaldson: they have been excellent at the back this season they have been so bloody good so comfortable as well that's what we're so impressive about isn't it top of Pete Donaldson's defensive league top of my defensive league

46:31Marcus Speller: what's really interesting is that I don't want to take attention away from some of them because we talk about them but the promoted teams now have got 23 points between them already did you see that statistic that like at this time last season the season before I think the cumulative points total between the promoted teams was like six points yeah I mean the

46:48Luke Moore: Last season and the season before that, you're hoping that that's actually a blip and anomaly. Oh, you certainly hope that. Because again, the...

46:53Marcus Speller: You suspect it isn't, but you hope it is.

46:55Luke Moore: Well, I think that we're seeing that perhaps the last two seasons could have just been a bit of a blip in terms of promoted teams going up. Because the previous seasons, of course, it was much... Everybody was making the point that, well, actually, for the promoted size to go down straight away, it's actually a little bit rarer than one may think. Certainly back-to-back seasons. it was just that due to the money swashling around and swashbuckling around and what not you think is this going to be it but the promote sides it gives everybody I think it feels good having them win games

47:32Marcus Speller: because the last thing jeopardy into the league it's also nice

47:35Jim Campbell: to have Burnley flying the flag for someone being absolute shit with two own goals from Maxime Estaba

47:40Luke Moore: I take the point you're saying but I don't think Burnley have been shit I think there's actually a Burnley of no care but he's been better than a lot of those teams that have come up.

47:48Marcus Speller: In my fantasy Premier League the weekend, Maxime Esteve got minus five points. He's got like an active like undercover agent. Yeah, you've got to miss

47:57Luke Moore: a couple of pens normally for that.

47:58Marcus Speller: Sunderland have been great and they've done an amazing job of strengthening, gambling, strengthening, bringing a lot of players in and they've seamlessly gone into that team and everyone kind of knows their jobs and I think it was, I mean, it might have been in the summer or maybe a preview show we did where we before the Premier League started. And one of us, I forget who it was, was talking about how what Sunderland are trying to do looks a lot more like perhaps what Brighton have tried to do, or Brighton have done, or Brentford have done, than maybe a kind of throw everything at it and just gamble and staying in the league and then doing yourself a mischief longer term.

48:33Marcus Speller: And we're seeing the fruits of that now. I think Xhaka looks like an inspired signing. Totally, yeah. He's been fantastic in there.

48:41Luke Moore: Celebrated his 33rd birthday. Yeah. and he's got their last three assists as well yeah he's not going to the UAE third team

48:47Marcus Speller: no way absolutely not that really does put it in perspective actually doesn't it yeah because Wayne Rooney's a 39 which is wild anyway the other thing I wanted to say was that this could I mean it's a bit early to say and perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself but I'll just put it out there I mean this appointment of Ange Postacoglu at Forest could prove to be an absolutely brain dead one from Ange Los Marais

49:12Luke Moore: Yeah, I'm wondering this.

49:13Marcus Speller: And I'll tell you why. Not because I've got anything in particular against Bostokoglu, you know, personally or anything like that. I actually think he's been pretty interesting for the league overall. But if you watch what they did against Sunderland at home against a promoted side, he seems to have completely dismantled everything from start to finish of what Forrest were actually good at last season.

49:34Jim Campbell: And obviously the squad is built for that, right?

49:36Marcus Speller: Yeah, and it's not just about losing a game. Anyone can lose a game. And I know it's only their first home game under him and I get that. but I just thought you know you're not picking Gibbs White who I know hasn't had a brilliant start to the season but you know Forrest have had a tricky start overall you're not picking Hudson-Odoi and then at half time you put in Gibbs White it's like okay so do you want him do you want him to play or not then what's the strategy here and the way they played that I've seen so far under Postacoglu has been nothing like the way they played under Nuno and all the players are the same so it's just kind of I find

50:09Luke Moore: it's a red light

50:10Marcus Speller: isn't it it's a red line

50:11Luke Moore: we knew it was going to be a gear change of course quite a heavy one from Nuno I mean to me there was a sort of mini red flag if you will when Maranacus was saying well he speaks Greek and when he won the Europa League with Spurs he really promoted Greece on the international stage and I was like what's this about because you're thinking

50:32Marcus Speller: football's a universal language

50:34Luke Moore: I'm thinking none of this is relevant and that does worry me for the old tricky trees so I yeah my mind is going to yeah my mind is sort of going towards okay we're a little bit better in Sevilla against Real Betis so that was more of an encouraging performance little bits and pieces they run out of steam though yeah fine but still one of the tougher games they'll face in that competition you're thinking okay it is a gear change so it will take adjustments so you know any manager deserves time you know you don't just sort of you know throw the baby out the bath water here but I totally understand where you're coming from with this Luke and so my mind is like okay does Ange have a bit of time can we see some of that and we keep saying that first season stuff at Spurs and whatnot but as time goes on you start to forget that and and with Forrest I think blimey if he doesn't improve things soon I mean what is it five games without a win now pressure's already mounting and the situation of Forrest is is quite strange after the way Nuno left and the fans often dictate these things.

51:39Luke Moore: They love Nuno for what he did and how he improved that side drastically and he leaves under a bit of a cloud. It wasn't as if it turned a bit crap and we're sad to see Steve Cooper go but maybe it's for the best. The fans thinking, you've changed, got this guy in, we're not winning games, what's the plan here? What was the point of this? And also they've got a European campaign where they can really do something and I understand Posta Gogli won the Europa League last season. you could be with Maranakis you never know what he's like you could be in a situation even in as little as two months away from now it's like is this position untenable it always suggests but he deserves time because every manager deserves time so you but you're just in the modern era

52:19Pete Donaldson: that's where your mind goes do you not think that he started so well at Spurs first was it five matches he did incredibly well in well the whole season you could say well

52:26Marcus Speller: no the first ten or so the first ten was really good

52:29Pete Donaldson: and so I think people expected a bit more I don't think Forrest started amazingly under Nuno anyway so I think there was an argument to sort of say that it was after the Lord Mayor show with the whole European stuff but like and at the end of the day this match was decided on Chris was not tracking his man him just running in the side and not scoring a sitter as well he had a load of chances Robin Roof was on fire brilliant he said he said they felt like they could have

52:54Jim Campbell: played all night and Forrest wouldn't have scored which is deliciously salty

52:59Luke Moore: and another day you're right Peter they win this game but the fact is they don't win this game but Postergall he deserves time of course he does because it would be ridiculous after five games to go well that's that and he's not had a pre-season with them as well which is a big part of this but I think the difference is that with the season Forest had last year or last season rather and they're in the Europa League it's the here and now you know because if they don't do it he said that himself he said they'll start to look

53:23Marcus Speller: like my team by Wednesday exactly

53:25Luke Moore: and haven't they just there's the problem what is that team well because with Forest

53:29Marcus Speller: winning Premier League

53:30Jim Campbell: on Sunderland to sort of bring back bring some credit back to them. I think, obviously, they will be aiming way higher than just staying in the league at this point, but it is really, really early on, isn't it? And if you can win away from home with 35 % possession and look that comfortable in defence, that's an amazing platform for that.

53:47Luke Moore: All right, coming up after this, we had a Saturday sacking in the Premier League.

54:00Pete Donaldson: With almost half a million customers and over a trillion dollars of secure payments. Bill isn't new to intelligent finance. It's the proven way to simplify BillPay and maximize cash flow. Want to learn more? Visit Bill.com slash proven for a special offer.

54:17Jim Campbell: Parles-tu français? Hablas espanol? Parli italiano? If you've used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation-based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55 % off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com slash acast. Spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash acast. Rules and restrictions may apply.

54:56Pete Donaldson: Youth mental health is a complex challenge that requires comprehensive solutions. We must strengthen after-school programs. We must make digital literacy tools available in our schools. We must work with mental health professionals to support children. And we must empower mentors, educators, and parents to keep kids happy. Learn more about our commitment to finding lasting solutions at empowerourfuturecoalition.com slash solutions. Paid for by the Coalition to Empower Our Future.

55:33Luke Moore: West Ham announced at 10.35am on Saturday morning that Graham Potter had left the club.

55:39Jim Campbell: I feel like we should have a jingle for a Saturday sacking. A Saturday sacking.

55:43Pete Donaldson: Journalists are like,

55:44Marcus Speller: oh, it's our busiest day.

55:46Pete Donaldson: They will have written those pieces long before, surely. Like an obituary.

55:51Luke Moore: At least you got the rest of the day off, Graham. We could have done this later.

55:54Marcus Speller: I mean, as Vish pointed out to us on the WhatsApp group, they've made Graham Potter sit through all those face swaps, answer questions about it in the press conference the press officer sat there letting him answer them

56:03Luke Moore: and they binned him anyway on the Friday afternoon yeah let him do all the press are there rumours

56:07Pete Donaldson: that Potter might be in at Manchester United just because you've had so many Ruben Amaro and Potter face swaps I just think

56:13Marcus Speller: that's people making it up did we manifest it

56:15Pete Donaldson: can you imagine with a doorby if Potter followed Amaro

56:19Jim Campbell: no way imagine Vich's little face it doesn't bear thinking people are just making that up because you can just

56:24Marcus Speller: say what you like about Man United now and someone will believe it

56:26Luke Moore: it would be stupendous for the ramble if that happens and that's how bad it would be for Monday night anyway poor old Potter is gone yeah I mean as you said Luke still in charge for the Friday presses being arsed like oh what do you think of all this I think that's a bit cruel Nuno was taking training

56:47Marcus Speller: at 12 on Saturday yeah

56:49Luke Moore: I think he was yeah he was so I think

56:51Marcus Speller: when Potter was fired Nuno was arriving at the training ground

56:56Luke Moore: the seat was still warm

56:56Pete Donaldson: do you think it's such a weird one isn't it Nuno like do you think like he's what for Nuno taking the job he's got nothing to work with there it's like being thrown out of a nightclub and coming back with a gun isn't it he's been kicked out and now he's coming back going I'm going to fucking get you I'm going to fucking get that bouncer

57:14Jim Campbell: I don't know about that Pete because Nuno's quite good at organising a defence even if they're you know not necessarily the most talented group of players and he's got Paquitar and Bowen and Somerville who I think he wanted to sign for Nottingham Forest at one point to work with there so I don't think they're going to be sort of pulling up any trees or anything West Ham this season but I think it's early enough that they

57:33Pete Donaldson: his system kind of you know tighten up the defence and hit him on the break which is how you know historically his teams have enjoyed playing like doesn't feel very full crew does it? doesn't feel very

57:46Marcus Speller: Mavropano you give the ball to Pakatar

57:48Pete Donaldson: and he just slows the game down he's their most creative player and he slows the game massively down so I just don't think

57:53Luke Moore: he hasn't got the people do you think though obviously was his last game for Forrest getting beat 3-0 at West Ham where West Ham soaked up the pressure and hit them on the brain. He's thinking, I'm going to manage them. Just, yeah. What else have you done? No, no, don't worry about that. Remember the 3-0 for us? We hammered you, didn't we? That's what it's meant to be. Yeah, you can take charge of this team that gave you a good doing.

58:13Marcus Speller: I am sympathetic to the stuff Pete's saying now. I totally get the logic behind it. I just think it's very difficult to know what West Ham are, right? Yeah. And I think Potter obscured that. I think the reason Potter, because I mean, Potter obscured it because he came in at West Ham when he came in and I felt like you know Potter's obviously got his hand as a coach and has had success in the past and he's come in at West Ham who are a basket case under that ownership and have been for some time let's see how he gets on in the summer and let's see what happens and how they set up because he's a tactical coach who likes to look at the details and all that type of stuff and then nothing happened it was like it was like a you know it's like a race car just stuck on the start line didn't go anywhere and then even when they brought players in in those key midfield positions he wasn't really playing them in there and they had this weird kind of combination of Suchek and Ward-Prowse and Holden McPhail, which wasn't doing anything.

59:03And they weren't using the players that can win you a game.

59:06Marcus Speller: I think you guys are right to say Bowen, Pakatar, and Somerville behind a striker can win you a game. Decent, yeah. And if Wilson, it's a big if, but if Wilson can stay fit, he's got Premier League quality, like Premier League pedigree. Again, it's a big if. So it wouldn't be a massive surprise if they started to improve under Nuno. And I can kind of see why, if you're the ownership of a club of a similar size to Nottingham Forest you go well thanks very much I'll have a bit of what he's done there that's great obviously it doesn't work like that because the club's set ups are different and all the rest of it they've also got a problem at goalkeeper look a massive problem at goalkeeper and they can't really do anything until January right so I think Nuno probably maybe I'm projecting here probably took it a bit personally the way he got binned out of Forest he still wants to work

59:49Luke Moore: I want to get back in there I don't think he can be blamed for that it has to be the case

59:53Pete Donaldson: do you not think that Potter had everything going well not everything going for him but he could have sorted that out so easily just by sorting out the corner routines because they just could not fail

1:00:03Luke Moore: I mean that was particularly poor but I think even if he sorted that out I think

1:00:07Marcus Speller: one of the reports that came out of the club when he was fired I found really interesting and I forget the journalist was but it was someone who covers West Ham they said they basically said that after their most recent defeat the players were starting to get like fed up of Potter not really being able to connect with the players, articulate, almost like not able to get properly angry about it. And none of the other senior players were responding to him. So what this journalist was making, the point was that if the manager comes into the dressing room after a game and there's been a defeat and he goes to town, and then some of the other senior players kind of join in and get involved as well, the whole thing kind of galvanised them.

1:00:48Marcus Speller: And he said it was like really, really flat all the time.

1:00:51Luke Moore: But other reports suggested that Potter was annoyed that some of his players were quiet after games and there was questions over Jarrod Bowen's captaincy is he a leader all that kind of stuff he's married to

1:01:01Marcus Speller: Danny Dyer's daughter you're getting more West Ham than that you can't question he never said

1:01:05Luke Moore: about leadership and if you're married to Danny Dyer's daughter then yeah you probably have to do what you're told so it didn't work it wasn't working under Potter one can only be surprised that it actually took this long there was huge pressure on when in May for crying out loud

1:01:21Marcus Speller: if Graham Potter was annoyed about senior players being quiet, does anyone notice? I don't think anyone notices. Yeah, that's the problem, isn't it?

1:01:27Jim Campbell: I think those two issues as well aren't mutually exclusive. The players can be annoyed with him and he can be sort of annoyed with them for not being vocal enough and it all being a bit flat. I think the bottom line though here is West Ham have got their best manager since Moyes, probably. I think it's a very, very good appointment. I think there's...

1:01:45Luke Moore: So you could amend that statement to West Ham have got a better manager than Lopetegui and Potter then?

1:01:50Jim Campbell: Yeah, but I don't think... But Lopetegui looked like he had promise. Graham Potter was always a little bit of a gamble. I think Nuno is a much, much more surefire bet than either of those. I would be, if I was a West Ham fan, I'd be very happy with this. Absolutely. And I think to the point... That's probably what they fired. To the point, though, where this might even all turn out to be worth it.

1:02:07Luke Moore: But it also makes sense now that Vito Pereira signed a contract extension or a new contract at Wolves, because people are thinking, why does that happen? Because they're not in the best place. Well, because the man, the puppet master, George Mendes, he was pushing Pereira for the job and obviously Nuno's one of his clients so he's pushed him there but whatever happens I think if you're a West Ham fan you'd be mightily relieved because you look at what Nuno did at Forest because as Pete said earlier it wasn't good when Nuno went into Forest yeah they were looking at a relegation battle and then they just left that in the dust which is very I mean it's very possible here indeed we are going to talk more about Graham Potter on tomorrow's mailbag by the way and Manchester United fans you may feel like you've had a day off today well enjoy it but we're going to talk about Ruben Amarim on the mailbag tomorrow as well so yeah

1:02:49Marcus Speller: and in a way it's a dig because you're you may not lose into Brentford like that is now so routine that it doesn't even raise a hackle in the end doesn't touch the sides no no no gentlemen

1:02:59Luke Moore: before we go from today's podcast I we haven't had a chance to mention Brighton but more specifically Danny Welbeck love the man love that man and coming on Welbs yes indeed I love that man Welbs the header by the way was a glorious one the second one was a nice finish shirt off in celebration yellow card from the referee and pat on the head to the referee

1:03:24Marcus Speller: it is a question of trust Malcolm

1:03:26Luke Moore: that's alright young man is that another yellow card?

1:03:29Marcus Speller: could be could have been pat on the head it was affectionate

1:03:32Luke Moore: well done the referee for not giving him another yellow card Danny Welbeck's a crazy player

1:03:37Marcus Speller: as far as that you know that somewhere deep in there he's really good and it comes out maybe every kind of full moon he'll retire two goals at Stamford Bridge bang see you later see you six months

1:03:49Luke Moore: I know it was put on a plate from him but the way kind of the body shape and everything he'll retire with

1:03:54Pete Donaldson: a much better goal record than you kind of thought he would get

1:03:57Marcus Speller: he's like a British Prime Minister back in the day people used to hate him when they're in there and then when they retire people were like oh he was he was alright famously never a Prime Minister

1:04:07Pete Donaldson: he wasn't famously never a Prime Minister but he's certainly a notable politician

1:04:10Marcus Speller: probably the most famous politician to not be a Prime Minister therefore not an example a famous person

1:04:15Jim Campbell: who was not a Prime Minister and therefore yeah

1:04:19Luke Moore: underneath that Jim said John Major

1:04:21Marcus Speller: what I loved about it whereas I saw in Luke's eye

1:04:23Luke Moore: he was thinking Thatcher no it was not

1:04:25Marcus Speller: but what I do love about it is Pete made the point about Michael Heseltine at the same time but so enthusiastic about it flicked his hair just like Michael Heseltine does yeah lovely

1:04:33Pete Donaldson: yeah there we go I'll do a Roy Hattersley in a minute if you don't be careful

1:04:36Marcus Speller: where's your eyebrows get your big eyebrows out I had them shave

1:04:39Pete Donaldson: on my makeup yeah there you go

1:04:41Luke Moore: there's the big takeaway everybody Wells has still got it and Pete likes to shave his eyebrows for the makeup thanks for listening to the Football Ramble part of the Acast Creator Network we'll be back tomorrow with the Mailbag of course where we're discussing Ruben Aberim's future at Manchester United do get involved for that

1:04:58Marcus Speller: I must be a very short show if that's the case surprise

1:05:01Luke Moore: surprise we think he's got a lot we hope he's got a long future he's got a lot more to offer thank you Jim thank you thank you PT goodbye thank you Lukey thank you very much and thank you Welbs

1:05:19Pete Donaldson: The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the ACAST Creator Network.

1:05:46Jim Campbell: that simplify the complex and power what's next. Because when everything comes together in one place, growth comes easy. Experience one place for all your HCM needs.

1:05:57Pete Donaldson: Start now at paylocity.com slash one. Youth mental health is a complex challenge that requires comprehensive solutions. We must strengthen afterschool programs. We must make digital literacy tools available in our schools. We must work with mental health professionals to support children. And we must empower mentors, educators, and parents to keep kids happy. Learn more about our commitment to finding lasting solutions at empowerourfuturecoalition.com slash solutions. Paid for by the Coalition to Empower Our Future. Pro athletes don't spend their time meal prepping. They eat smart, train hard, and recover fast.

1:06:36Pete Donaldson: Factor makes it easy with dietician-designed, chef-prepared meals built to fuel your performance. Choose from high-protein, calorie-smart, GLP-1 support and vegetarian options, designed by nutrition experts to support strength and recovery. Train like a pro, eat like a pro. Right now, go to factormeals.com slash healthy50off and use code healthy50off for 50 % off and free breakfast for a year. That's factormeals.com slash healthy50off, code healthy50off.

1:07:13Jim Campbell: If you've used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation-based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55 % off your Babbel subscription right now. at babbel.com slash ACAST spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash ACAST rules and restrictions may apply