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4:13Luke Moore: Kissing Valentino by Crystal Blue Italian Stream, everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble! Arsenal got a big win and so did Brighton and Hove Albion. It's Monday, 2nd of November. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore.

4:24Jim Campbell: And I'm Jim Campbell.

4:38Luke Moore: Well, hello everybody and welcome to the Football Ramble. It's Monday morning. We're going to be talking about the Premier League. You lucky things. you'll be pleased to know that Jim and Luke are here as well. Good morning. Come on. Good morning, everyone. Oh, hey, fresh from the weekend. How's it going, chaps? Luke Moore. Kind of fresh. Not entirely fresh. Yeah. But happy to be here, Marcus. That's the most important thing. Yeah, Jim, you're minty to Luke's fresh.

5:00Jim Campbell: Yeah, more lemony, a bit zesty.

5:02Luke Moore: Nice. But yeah, I still feel fresh. Yes, you would do after that win. Yes. For your boys at Anfield, another great weekend of Premier League action. Will it just never stop? Well, it will do soon for an international break, I'm pleased to say. not more on that later, sadly. Before we get in to the events at Anfield, we've got a little announcement for you. We're offering a limited time discount. That means it's not going to last forever, everybody. This is a limited time discount on the 2026 Football Ramble kits we've made in partnership with Admiral Sports. Stock of the green home kit and the white away kit are running out.

5:38Luke Moore: So head to footballramblestore.com. Nearly got that wrong. footballramblestore.com. and use the code RAMBLE20 at checkout to get yours before they go. This is what they look like. You've probably seen, but look at this. I mean, come on. That's a showstopper. It's lovely stuff. I hope not, because we've got a show to do. That is an absolute, well, if you walk on to a seven-a-side pitch, five-a-side pitch, even, well, 11-a-side, you've probably got a more uniformed approach. You are going to stop people dead in their tracks. And let me tell you something, it's not all... The away kit's your fave, isn't it?

6:09Luke Moore: If other people have got green and black kits on, which is unlikely, then you've got this little beauty. Look at that. In England white and the Ramble black and green trim. So, I mean, I think that's it. I do. It's the collar. It's good stuff. It's poppable, isn't it? It's very poppable. I presume that's deliberate. Yeah, I assume so, Jim. Don't ask me questions. I don't know the answer to. So the code to use at the checker is Rambler 20. Ramble. Rambler 20 is the code. Absolutely right. and on the Football Ramble Discord, we've had people ask if the kit's a match worn. We would like to address these questions, of course.

6:47Luke Moore: The answer, of course, is yes. Pete Donaldson has warmed them all. He's given himself a good old rub, but not in that kind of... In goal, when he's been running the line as well. So he does it. Pete tends to do a half run in the line for his team and a half in goal and he'll wear those shirts every single time. Yes, exactly. They smell of his musk. Well, but we have to remind ourselves that Pete did get his armpits lasered so he can't sweat. That's true. Like one or two others in the kingdom. Careful. So you'll be absolutely fine. They will smell clean. FootballRamblestore.com is where you can get them.

7:16Luke Moore: And Rambler20, with an R on the end, Rambler20, is the discount code to use. Right. Let's get on to it then. Liverpool 0, Arsenal 1. The title race is going very, very well indeed. Arsenal's first one at Anfield since a 2-0 victory in September 2012. A game in which Mikel Arteta started in midfield alongside Abu Dhabi. It's so good that that stat is done.

7:41Jim Campbell: I've been so fed up with that stat. It's great. I think it's one of those games that illustrates that if Liverpool want to win these games, they need a striker like Kaya Havats or Victor Jokeres. It was obviously, I mean, there was a big slice of luck for Arsenal, which we'll come on to. But I think the way that they kind of managed a lot of this game, once the dust had settled and my nerves had calmed down, is really, really impressive. The way they can kind of manage these games in a defensive sense when they need to is impressive. And they've come unstuck trying to do that at Anfield before.

8:16Jim Campbell: I think last season they showed Liverpool way, way too much respect. Obviously, Dominic Sabozlai scores that amazing free kick, which incredibly is the last shot on target they've had against Arsenal. But I think they were probably a bit more there to be got at last season than Arsenal tried to do. They're a bit more adventurous this time. obviously they started really really well were a lot more kind of you know purposeful in their attack and then I think despite Liverpool you know there's this stat doing the round about them not having had a shot on target for the first time I think ever at Anfield in the Premier League which is quite amazing that is amazing but I think there's also a lot to take from that where you can sort of assess that Liverpool are going to be a lot better later on in the season because their press was absolutely relentless after Arsenal scored and the speed of play was something that Arsenal kind of to an extent couldn't live with for a long time they couldn't get a handle back in the game so they had to lean on the defending to to kind of get back into it or to stay in it rather but yeah to to see the game out to to manage it as they did in the second half where it was a little bit less intense it was really really impressive yeah I agree I think it I think it was a brilliant away performance, like a textbook, like mature title, you know, Premier League champion style away performance in the Premier League, I thought.

9:37I mean, it ticked all the boxes, really. So they got the goal fairly early when they needed to, when they were on top. Then Liverpool just couldn't make any of their dominance count after that. It was relentless after. I mean, what is super surprising is they didn't have a single shot on target given the dominance they had in the game, Liverpool, for that period of time. because ultimately, you know, if Arsenal shut them out completely, if you didn't watch this game, it's like, oh, Liverpool didn't have a shot on target and it was a one-nil win for Arsenal. You'd think, oh, it was an Arsenal shutout.

10:04But it wasn't at all. It was like Liverpool were just quite profligate in front of goal in that period where they had their dominance. It was a really good Premier League game. It was so entertaining to watch, full of drama. It felt to me that if, as a neutral, I'd have loved Liverpool to have bitten straight back and scored at the beginning of their period. And we would have had an all-timer, I think, because the goals would have kept coming, I think, after that. the feeling I came away with it with from the Liverpool side was just that the front four that started for Liverpool to me they don't seem to have that nastiness you need they just don't have that kind of if you think of the profile of those players Barcala, Verts, Gakpo and Isak all good players in different stages of their Premier League careers of course Barcala's just settling in but he's starting to look better he looks lively with the ball at his feet he looks exciting Verts everyone's talked about forever.

10:56Izak has Premier League experience in terms of goals, but has struggled with injuries and to kind of assert himself fully. And Gakpo's been around for ages, but again, it's a little bit kind of hit and miss. There's not one of them have got that kind of real steel, like nastiness, like X factor kind of aggression. That's really going to matter. And I felt like that made the difference yesterday, that none of those players could really authentically and physically take the game for the scruff of the neck in the final third. The most obvious, clear, big chance Liverpool had was, it wasn't a coincidence, it fell to Alexis McAllister.

11:31It was a free header that he puts over to buy, he should have scored. He should have definitely hit the target. So to me, that felt like the difference. Arsenal were able to deal with the physicality because there really wasn't that much physicality.

11:41Luke Moore: Yeah, I know what you mean. I hear what you're saying about that front line. I mean, do you think Izak could become more of that, though? but he's not a physically dominant he's not a physically dominant player though is he I'm not saying he's not a good player but you don't necessarily have to be to have that sort of nasty streak which is what you're talking about I don't think he has got that nasty streak

12:03Jim Campbell: I think Hugo Eketike has that and I wouldn't call it a nasty streak and I would call it I'd caveat it with saying this isn't meant to be the insult it might sound like but I think Eketike has an arrogance about him that some really top strikers have where they know they're really talented and they know that they are kind of more likely to score than not if they get a decent chance. And I think that kind of manifests as a real kind of killer focus. I think Eketike is probably going to give Ezek a real run for his money when he's available again. So I think it'd be foolish to write Liverpool off too much based on this performance.

12:42Jim Campbell: What did you say write them off? Are you talking about for the title? Not necessarily. We are a long way out. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they turn things around to the extent this season where people are going, you know what, we wrote them off, but actually, you know what, they've come roaring back. I absolutely expect Liverpool to do that later on in the season because we aren't that far in.

13:00Luke Moore: No, we're not. It's interesting you say that, Jim. I mean, because a lot has been made about they didn't have a shot on target since records began. Sure. But you're kind of, you know, switching it up with regard to Liverpool's performance and looking at different areas and seeing how good they were.

13:15Jim Campbell: I will sort of admit that a lot of this was based on how I felt during the game which is obviously a very very stressful experience when it's your own team sort of facing that kind of wave Can we trust Jim's feelings Luke? Not in my experience no Sure I've been on the wrong end of a few of them over the years You're talking about

13:31Luke Moore: the Ramble Tour where Not just the Ramble Tour Jim and I have spent some time together just me and him as well True enough I've never been to the Lake District but I hear it last Well it should have been nice I see what you're saying I mean Liverpool have improved in the last handful of games there's no doubt about that but it is a tall order trying to get through this Arsenal defence

13:52Jim Campbell: I think this is it as well actually I think Arsenal deserve a lot of credit where in fact Liverpool are getting a lot of criticism

13:59Luke Moore: well here's a stat for you Arsenal under Arteta Arteta's been there for a bit it wasn't always title challenges and roses under Arteta if you think back to the start it was FA Cup wins as well and light bulbs and brains and hearts exactly but Arsenal have won 81 % of league games in which they've scored first under Arteta which shows you they know how to keep a lead. Again, I wondered at the start of the season... Fuck off! I did wonder, excuse me, at the start of the season, if we were going to see Arsenal do something a little bit different. And obviously it's not like a complete carbon copy from last season.

14:34Luke Moore: But it's, in feeling and in spirit, it's a continuation, and he would hope to evolve that, because they are playing to their strengths. You know, we can be critical of maybe Havertz, although he scored the goal, but at times people have been critical of him. Obviously, Jock Rose as well. Well, you play to your strengths, Luke. And their strengths are that incredible defence they've got. David Rye, who for me is a better goalkeeper than Unai Simmon, despite the award that he got recently at the Football Oscars or whatever it's called. And obviously the midfield in which Declan Rice played an enormous part yesterday.

15:07He was excellent. He obviously is excellent, isn't he? On the 81 % win rate, just to give people a bit of extra context, across the Premier League the team that scores first tends to win I think it's about 69 % of the time

15:21Luke Moore: and that 69 % is boosted by I'm just saying it's people I think underestimate just how important it is you're very unlikely it's far more unlikely than people think statistically that teams come back after going to go behind and we don't like to think about that because it makes the league seem a bit more boring so 81 % does sound impressive it is impressive but it's not massively more than the average. All right, I'll never use that stat again. Thank you very much. Unless they improve it to 90-odd percent. The question was about Declan Rice. We can go back to Declan Rice. Well, interestingly, I mean, yeah, Declan Rice was great.

15:56He is great. He played a really important part in the game yesterday. He was almost like, he marshals the troops. He's kind of really important for what they were trying to do, particularly in that phase of the game, you know, towards, what was it, the 35 minutes or whatever it was, leading up to half-time particularly. But I think the more interesting aspect at that part of the midfield is the Bruno versus Myles Lewis-Skelly kind of conundrum, right? And the reason I'm saying that is because how much did they pay for Bruno? 75 million pounds. And he's in his late 20s now, right? Yeah. So there is an impetus to want to play him for those reasons.

16:30Yet you've got Myles Lewis-Skelly there as well, who when he came on, gave him a lot of thrust, gave him a lot of intent, gave him a much bigger... I know he gave the ball away here and there, but he gave him a lot more of an impetus.

16:41Jim Campbell: Yeah, and some more security as well at the same time. Yeah. And so that's a kind of, I feel like that's a bit of a conundrum for Arteta to solve.

16:49Luke Moore: Well, oddly, Bruno Gimras has been pretty good impacts up at times already this season. So I don't know, maybe... It may well be that they rotate him around for different competitions.

16:56Jim Campbell: Yeah, I think that will absolutely be the case. I thought Bruno was okay, actually. Go on, Sim, sorry. There was a great moment where he celebrated a tackle. Obviously, we all like seeing that in these sort of games. And I think you alluded earlier, Marcus, to how it looked like Arsenal might be a little bit different at the start of the season where they were scoring more goals. goals and they looked a bit more fluid going forward. I kind of hope that we sort of see Arsenal go back to that in certain games, but this would never have been that sort of game. As you say, you've got to play to your strength.

17:23Jim Campbell: This was a horse for a course. And speaking of horses, I thought Riccardo Calafuri was brilliant as well. Particularly strong. But yeah.

17:31Luke Moore: But if I may go back to Declan Rice, Jim, if I can, in this game, the match was made, you know, because he talked to the presenters on Match of the Day 2 after the match, and it was a good interview with him as he often does give good interviews. Had his flip-flops on, didn't he? Had his little flip-flops on, as is the way. Well, footballers, they're either wearing... They're sliders, aren't they? They're sliders. Well, yeah, you're right. They're either wearing football boots or sliders. Yeah. Or like ridiculous things if they're going to an awards ceremony or something like that. Yeah, you've got to look after your feet, right?

17:55Luke Moore: Well, you absolutely have to, Jim. So I'm interested in your take on this because if everybody's fit for Arsenal and everybody's, you know, in good health and Arsenal are playing a big knockout tie in the Champions League or indeed they're away at Anfield or they play Man City, big game. in that midfield, what do you prefer seeing Declan Rice do? Do you want him in front of the back four? Do you want him playing as an eight? Because a lot has been made about where he fits in because he does it all brilliantly. Against the top, top teams,

18:27Jim Campbell: I want him at the base of midfield. Interesting. Because he is so, so secure there and I think part of, and we saw this yesterday, a big part of any problem Arsenal had came from, was to do with pace. When Liverpool upped the tempo of not just their press but their passing, Arsenal couldn't really live with it. When they won the ball back, they would often, I would say often, but on a couple of occasions, someone over hit a touch. Actually, Declan Rice over hit a touch because they were quite out of character at one point. Or they make a rushed pass and they just concede again. And against a really, really top kind of whirlwind, PSG-style pressing teams, that can be a bit of a problem.

19:01Jim Campbell: There's a little bit of a problem at times against Bayern as well. I know I'm splitting hairs here. Obviously, they didn't lose the game against Bayern. They went and got a really, really creditable draw. but I think when you're up against those really, really elite, super high-pressing, super fit, super technical teams, I want Rice at the base of that midfield just because I think he offers the most security there.

19:19Luke Moore: Interesting. Jamie Carragher said after the match that Declan Rice is the best midfielder in the league and one of Arsenal's best ever midfielders, which I think is incredibly disrespectful to every other midfielder, and I hope Carragher apologises for that. I would imagine the club's legal team will be looking at that. It's opinions like that which do genuinely stop midfield players from smaller teams really achieving their dreams. Yeah, I hope Tom Kearney sues him. But anyway. Tom Kearney doesn't need to. Tom Kearney's very well appreciated. Well, he is in my house. But look, we've not talked about a big incident in the game.

19:53Luke Moore: People have gone, how have you not mentioned the Durian Timber shirt pull on Alexander Rezac already? We're going to do it now. We'll do it in our time, thank you. Yes, Alexander Rezac, he went to head the ball. Durian Timber said, not today. He pulled his shirt and the chance went, but Alexander Izak didn't make a big meal of it. What did you think of that whole passage of play? Well, there's 450 cameras, so I'm not sure Izak feels like he needs to make a big meal out of it. You think, you know, we are quite used to VAR intervention now. What does an expert lip reader like yourself think? Did Izak turn around to Timber?

20:25Luke Moore: Because he didn't sort of demonstrate to the referee. He said something to Timber. Did he say, well, the cameras will pick that up? Don't worry about it. VAR will give me that. You're in trouble. Cameras are all over it. No, the VAR interventions tend to be, they come from nowhere, like very exciting surprises when you're least expecting it. And when you do expect it, like we did in this game, in this incident, nothing happens. It doesn't credit the current way the game's refereed in any way, I don't think. I think it was a ridiculous situation. Darren Kan, who... Do you thought it was a penalty?

20:58That's 100 % a penalty. 100 %...

21:00Jim Campbell: Yeah. We fell right into that, didn't we? I'm about to give Darren Cown some credit. Don't interrupt. There is such a word as can. Exactly. Yes, we can. Yes, we can. I like Darren Cown because he's got a very high-pitched voice, John Joy, and also because he went on pointless. Not celebrity pointless, just pointless. Regular pointless. And Alexander Armstrong had to point out that he was at the time a Premier League assistant referee, and he's very humble about it. Anyway, I'm getting off the point. He said on the BBC website that the reason that VAR didn't intervene on this incident specifically is because he thought the laws of the game's quote, it has to be sustained shirt pulling.

21:37It has to be sustained. So, which to me is bonkers for a couple of reasons. One, because it feels like then you are actively saying that players can pull shirts. Just a bit. Not for long, though. And the second thing is... Don't leave a mark. The second reason it's bonkers is because if you are a referee, clearly you have to be able to ascertain what the consequences of the apparent infringement and if the consequence is there's a player about to head the ball into the fucking net that to me says it probably should be intervened upon yeah the window for which it sustained

22:14Jim Campbell: shrinks so it's only for a second it was a crucial second yeah yeah yeah i just thought i just thought it was crazy absolutely crazy it's as clear as day if Sky Sports can pick it up on you know cut to a kind of replay in a second then VAR have got access to it they must have and I don't know why they intervene the only answer would be it's just incompetence it's just incompetence because it's not like this is a debatable situation and you can hide behind the sustained shirt pulling all you like but that in itself even if that does count that's just ridiculous

22:49Luke Moore: yeah I didn't think any of the other sort of decisions that are coming together or Solis playing touch rugby at one point with Toei Gakobo where he put his hands on his hips. I don't think any of that was, I don't think any of those were penalties, but my goodness, Arsenal got away with that one, didn't they?

23:03Jim Campbell: I mean, they got away with a lot more than conceding a penalty. So if you look at the laws regarding Dogso, for red card conditions, for a denial of a goal scoring opportunity, the dogzo as we like to call it the law states where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick the offender is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball or a challenge for the ball in all other circumstances e.g. holding, pulling, pushing no possibility to play the ball etc the offending player must be sent home he should have gone so if that penalty had been given which it should have been by the letter of the law Timber would have been sent off as well.

23:47Jim Campbell: Straight red. That's a different game. That is a different game. It's a massive sliding doors moment in the game. And Liverpool can feel aggrieved because they were knocking on the door. They did everything but score, really. So that's a moment that things can hinge on.

24:01Luke Moore: Does this give more credence to the red cartel theory? I mean, do we even need to call it a theory anymore? It's red on red. It's red on red. They're only hurting themselves in this game. Fair enough. I didn't think about that. We don't need the infighting of the red cartel. This is all very tangled. I had a Man City fans deal with being beaten by a team who also played in blue at the weekend. Come on to that later. In just a moment. Yeah, but you're right, Jim, though. I don't think anybody's mentioned the dog zoo aspect of it because people were baffled as the white. A few as white.

24:31Jim Campbell: For the Liverpool fans, it wasn't given a penalty. Because it's not a foul and there's no sort of violent element to it. You don't necessarily automatically think of that, but that is what the law states. So, you know, thankfully, I guess Arsenal had the corruption card among the red cartel this weekend. Yeah, they talked about it beforehand. Yeah, exactly. We get one corruption, all right? We're the away team.

24:52Luke Moore: Manchester United certainly didn't get that card. They haven't had that card for a while.

24:55Jim Campbell: They've put that through the wash, haven't they? Yeah, that is... They've played it on themselves. They've played it on themselves. They've nailed it up against the tunnel, like the Anfield sign. Yeah, they have. That's it. That is absolutely it. Well, it was a great win for Arsenal. It's stuck in Lissandro Martinez's shoe.

25:12Luke Moore: To quote Declan Rice, I quite like this. In the end, that defensive line, the way we stick together, that togetherness we have is undefeated other than the way it brightens. But you get the point. You get the point. And it does look like, at this early stage, Luke Moore, if I may, if I may. You may not. All right. We'll move on. It does look like Arsenal are going to 1-0 their way to the title again. Does it? Well, I mean, What do you mean does it? As if I've got nothing to go on there.

25:41Jim Campbell: Well, I'm saying the second time... You're fed up of being told you can't look at the table, aren't you? I'm saying the second time they've won 1-0 since August in the league. Yeah, since August, all those months ago. Well, it's about eight games. You get the... You're fine. Yeah, I get the... Listen, for avoidance of doubt, so everyone on YouTube can see us as well. You're showing off because we're live. I get... Well, this is the job. Showing off. I get the point, Marcus. I don't know how many different ways I can say this, and back me up, I get the point, I simply don't agree with it. And that's fair enough.

26:09Luke Moore: Yeah, okay. You're still hoping for Chelsea to win the league. You've got them down as winners.

26:13Jim Campbell: Well, you never know. You raise an interesting point though on the one-nil thing. A bit more from Jim Lee. Because after the Fleetwood debacle, if Arsenal lose this game, that becomes a big, big narrative. And you look at Liverpool themselves last season, it's easy to forget they started really well actually, but then once it started to go wrong, it all went very, very wrong. and the basics they were doing stopped working and it all became kind of slightly confusing as to why it was as bad as it was. You know, no team is immune to that. But this is a statement win and a really, really incredible way to get back on course.

26:50It's massive. Not just, like I said, not just the fact they won, but the fact that it was essentially a kind of inch-perfect away performance, really. I mean, and against a really good team who've started well and who are at a different stage of their journey to Arsenal. but for all the kind of stuttering, I suppose, under a new manager, I mean, Liverpool haven't lost many games. They've been decent. So it's a really, really good win. Massive three points for them.

27:13Jim Campbell: Also, I think Jeremy Jacquet is such a good player and deserves a lot of credit. They've got all the ingredients they need.

27:19Luke Moore: They took to him very quickly, didn't they? I think it was in pre-season they'd already got the chance for him. So yeah. No, but I think what you said earlier about Liverpool, they're definitely improving. That's obvious. Heriola, it feels like he's getting them to where he wants them and if he can mould them into what we know he can do, but with better players. I think he will be concerned, though, with this idea that they're struggling to find a cutting edge. Now, I've identified it perhaps wrongly as this idea that they're perhaps not ruthless enough in front of a goal. But if you look at the top six teams in the Premier League at the moment as we stand now...

27:53Are you looking at the table? I'm allowed one a week. We agreed that on Friday.

27:56Luke Moore: I'm encouraging you to do it twice a week. Liverpool are the lowest scorers. but Ezek is scoring goals though which is as I say I think he would give me hope for them that that cutting edge will be there with Ezek here we go we'll see we will see we will certainly see

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31:37Luke Moore: Brighton. Are they on the verge? They've got a famous revenge victory against Manchester City at the Etihad. The verge of what? Well, challenging for the title. In October. Oh, it's November now, to be fair. It was October when they played. Fine. It was October when they played the game. And it's November now, baby. Accept it. Okay, so Brighton won 1-0 away at Manchester City. It's like we can all get behind. Handing the title to Arsenal. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm fed up of the red cartel. Yeah. Engineering. Brighton are in on it now. Brighton are winning games. Brighton are in on it beating Man City.

32:13Jim Campbell: It's amazing. It is. Oh, dearie. I mean, they're the top scorers and they've got the most clean sheets, Brian.

32:19Luke Moore: You're right, Dan. They're the real deal. They're the real deal. Verbruggen is having a great season in goal. Is he not? He's a good save. And I know people say, well, they're the saves he should be making. Well, you don't say that if a striker scores four and they're all tap-ins. You go, oh, but the movement, the fact he was there. You have to give Verbruggen a lot of credit for what he's done this season. Yeah, the movement. Yeah, but the movement. Keepers never get credit for the movement. It's all they do. Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. He was there, so he didn't have to dive. But he was great.

32:43Luke Moore: defensively as you rightly point out Jim they have been brilliant this season but even in Herzl's words after the game he said they needed a little bit of luck and they got it against Man City because on another day Man City score but they didn't on that day and Brighton are having a lovely old time the scenes at the end of that game when they were celebrating they knew it was a famous victory but that is a squad who are very together they're all singing from the same hymn sheet and it is proper dare to dream stuff with Brighton this season And again, I do feel like we say this perhaps a lot, but you do have to reiterate it, I think, when you contextualise what they're achieving, is that they lost key players.

33:18If you look at how important Jean-Paul Van Hecker is to Spurs already, the amount of touches he has, the amount of passes he has. The Spurs game against whoever they played at the weekend, Crystal Palace, where they win the game, Van Hecker has something like 145 passes. He sets up, he's kind of slotted into, he's planning it slightly differently, but he's set into what Romero was doing. It was really important for them to get their play going. He was really important for Brighton as well for that. He's gone. They've replaced him with Vuscovic, who slotted in there like a lot of a club.

33:46Luke Moore: He's been great. But Labour, massively important player for them, gone. Danny Welbeck, senior pro there, talismanic forward, gone. Yet they're better now than they were then. So it's incredible what Herzl has done. And that's how much has been made, how the club has run and so on. We just see it's there. You see it every season, and this season in particular, the way they've started. The start has given them a platform to try and be a Champions League team this season. They have to try that. That's got to be their target now. It has to be. I was pleased for Yassin Iari as well, who obviously missed his penalty in the shootout against City and then scores the goal.

34:18Jim Campbell: It's also nice to know that he can score goals that aren't absolute screamers. Yeah, exactly. He's added that to his locker. For the first time ever, I was struggling earlier to remember what the goal was like because normally they're from miles away. But he was great. Pascal Gross is really important for them as well. By the way, you know that a lot was made of Kai Havertz becoming the top-scoring German and in the Premier League. Pascal Gross also in the top five. There you go. Those who are interested. Wow. Would you like to know who's fifth? No. Jürgen Klinsmann. So you'd like to know now.

34:45I did know that. Yeah. Oh, you knew he was fifth exactly. Yeah, okay.

34:48Jim Campbell: You saw the same stats doing around at the weekend. Fair enough. Anyway, yeah, Brighton were great. And they stuck it out. Obviously, City had chances they were always going to do that, particularly at home. It was particularly pleasing for someone in my stated position of wanting Man City to lose every single game until this thing is sorted out. Particularly at the Etihad, as they did. Yeah, it was good to see them just struggle to score and not be able to do it.

35:11Luke Moore: They deflated their bananas, didn't they, Brighton? Absolutely.

35:14Jim Campbell: Was Vizcovic very lucky with that back pass? I obviously also want to see City lose at every opportunity, but I also like to see a direct free kick in the box as well. Or is it an indirect free kick? I hate that rule. It shouldn't be a thing.

35:29Luke Moore: You like a good clean bout, which is why you don't like Man City. But I do agree with you. that did look suspiciously like a back pass. An incredibly well executed back pass, considering how the ball comes in and he slides in and it's so close to the goal. But I know what you mean. I thought they had a case there. I thought they had close to irrefutable evidence that that was a back pass. But there we are. But I don't think Man City fully appealed for it, did they? Well, you've got to respect the process. And the referee's decision, ultimately.

36:02Jim Campbell: Maybe they'll get it in the next game. It could have been worse for City because Decai had a really good chance as well. He's been great this season as well. Really good. So he was really highly rated when he came in and he didn't have the season I think everyone expected last season but he seems to have really grown again this season. He's found his feet. And I might be wrong here, but I feel like he's also now playing further forward. Oh, he is. He's been used as a full-back for that. He's become a goal scorer too.

36:26Luke Moore: Handy one for your fantasy football team. Yeah, yeah. Because he counts as a defender but he's actually playing forward. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. actually

36:32Jim Campbell: producer Finn of our parish he's a Sheffield United fan and I remember him saying at Villeman and Jai that his end product is something he felt would maybe hold him back from really succeeding at a top team and I think we saw a little bit of that at the weekend he's really trying though isn't he when Madsen he's been very unlucky against Villa he had some efforts he's a great player he's a brilliant player if he can sort of tweak that element he'll be really really special I kind of felt like he I felt like when they signed him he I wasn't expecting to feature as much as he has I know Doku was out and that's kind of part of it obviously Doku played against Brighton but it felt to me like when Doku came back we wouldn't see him again

37:09Luke Moore: but Njara plays on the other side though more doesn't he? he has done yeah but I just didn't think he would perhaps perhaps producer Finn can put more of a final point in it than me but I just didn't think he would be quite at that level personally he can play off the right or the left I mean I guess he plays off the right more frequently I suppose yeah Mark Gay was dropped for this game and they still made a bit of a mistake didn't they with regard to the goal I do, it's funny isn't it how the way a lot of goals are being scored, I mean even on the weekend and just in the Premier League in general you have that not in this game but in other games I mean Arsenal's goal as well, pouncing on a mistake where that pass is played out from the goalkeeper and it seems to be like years ago even if the goalkeeper in the Premier League back in the 90s or you maybe don't even have to go back that far.

38:01Luke Moore: The goalkeeper doesn't even look at his options. He just hoofs it. And it's almost, it's like the opposite end of the spectrum in that the goalkeeper doesn't look at what's going on. It's like, right, I play the ball straight down the middle to that guy who then immediately passes it out to the fullback. Yeah, we see it all the time. But people have really wised up to that and people are pouncing on those mistakes. Now, this is not me advocating for the long ball, but I do feel sometimes when teams are playing out from the back, It's like the autopilot is too, it's instilled in them too much, if you see what I mean.

38:33Luke Moore: You've got to assess the danger of it. But don't teams just, I agree with that in principle, but don't teams under the coaching they get now just see that potential as just a price of doing business? Because they think that if they lump the ball long, the rationale these days, the fashion now is, if we put the ball long, it's a 50-50 chance we're going to do that. No, no, I understand. And so if we play it short, we obviously keep the ball the whole time and maybe a tiny percentage of the time there's a mistake and we concede, but ultimately over a longer period of time it makes more sense for us.

39:01Luke Moore: Yeah, but I mean, as I say, the number of goals that happened really because of that... I think we're in a bit of a moment at the moment for it. We're in a bit of a moment for the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've got to be careful then. But did you... I mean, going back to the point I was making just now about Njaya, did you not think that because Doku's so... I guess the point I was getting at is because Doku's so flexible and can play off both sides, it felt to me that like Semenya and Doku would play more often than not, and then Njaya would be essentially a backup. Probably, yeah. I mean, they're going to rotate massively, aren't they?

39:29Luke Moore: And Docky, by far and away, plays much more on the left as well.

39:33Jim Campbell: Champions League game coming up this week as well. We've probably got an eye on that, right? Yeah, indeed. I mean, all three of those wide forwards will be fantastic in League Two. I think we all agree on that. Yeah, absolutely.

39:43Luke Moore: We can definitely agree on that. Man City, though, I mean, it was Mareska's first home defeat as manager. Back-to-back defeats in the Premier League as well.

39:50Jim Campbell: Yeah, I want to pick your brain on this, Marcus, because you were quite forthright on the Man City head loss last season. You were saying they're done under Guardiola. It was the season before, but you're right. It carried over though, didn't it? So do you think this is just... Is this the pressure of the off-field stuff starting to tell or is it maybe a kind of natural thing to happen when you've got a new manager coming in, even if you've kind of started well, that you kind of have a little bit of a wobble while everyone's still finding this? Why do you think Man City have lost two games in a row?

40:22Luke Moore: I think we're now back to where we were before Guardiola's Man City were winning lots of titles and Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool were more often than not getting 90 plus points and even Arteta's Arsenal were getting 90 plus points. You can lose two games in a row. You know, Ferguson's United used to have that. They would get beat heavily at Southampton and then they'd lose the next game and then they'd draw and it'd be like, oh, whatever, and they were back on it again. Again, I know I used the expression on another day quite a lot. But against Brighton, they were very unlucky. Man City should have scored.

40:57Luke Moore: They really shouldn't have lost this game with the chances they have, although all credit to Brighton. And again, against Aston Villa, yeah, Villa were probably the better side. But it's sort of nip and tuck. Playing two good teams as well in a row. Exactly, yeah. Not anybody can get a point at Aston Villa. Cartilage was saying that he thought City were a bit overrated anyway based on what he's seen. Possibly. So there's all that. There's also a rebuild the season and it's also the first season that Pep Guardiola isn't there. And we've got the charges. And we've got the charges going on. Respect the process, though.

41:27Thank you, Marcus.

41:28Luke Moore: Okay. So respecting the process would mean that they are staying as guilty. It's like, you know, a Rio Ferdinand didn't walk over the Real Madrid badge. You've got to do that with the charges. Oh, I do. You can't walk all over the charges. So I am. So they're guilty. Don't mention it. So if I'm going to respect the... Respect the process. Then they're guilty. And that's the end of that. But I think with, you know, under Guardiola, to hark back to that, to me it was like, in terms of their peak, they were done under Guardiola and it was going to be just a bit of a somewhat of a downward spiral.

41:56Luke Moore: But obviously they won two trophies last season. It's a new thing. And I think, again, the idea of a team having to be perfect or near perfect to win the league, I don't think that's the case anymore. And that's good for the Premier League. Because again, when Liverpool and Man City were going at it and they were getting 90-odd points, as impressive as it was, it's actually for the rest of the league. I don't think you want that so much. I think you want to be able to go to Man City and think, all right you know sorry you don't want to go there and think oh well I'll take a 3-0 loss and that's I think that's the difference you know and look what Brighton did teams are going to the Emirates and the Etihad and they're thinking right if we stick at it we're well organised you know we may well get something of course more often than not that's not going to be the case but I think it's great and Brighton have been you know look at the teams they've already beaten this season you know Arsenal and Manchester City and again against Liverpool last week I thought Liverpool quite impressive the way they set up against them it was almost as if it was tailored to it gave Brighton respect but in the right way of doing it and Brighton and Kane they missed a great chance early on and you know on and on but Liverpool were quite canny in that whereas against Brighton Man City are always going to play that way and Brighton they picked them off with that goal and it was enough so they've been hugely impressive with Brighton we'll see as the season goes, can they maintain that European run?

43:21Luke Moore: Because they should really win the Conference League at a canter, if we're brutally honest about that. As sad as it is for the rest of Europe for an Englishman to say that. And therefore, I mean, I know they had a bit of a poor result the other week, but they should be able to rotate quite a lot in that competition and sustain this realistically Champions League tilt, if you like, for where they're going to finish this

43:44Jim Campbell: season. Another word on Fabian Herzler as well. I mean, obviously, he's He's got a great reputation at Brighton. He's been there for a long time now. He's very, very settled in and he's sort of off the pitch. He's become a big role model for men with punchable faces. Do you think? Yeah, yeah. Do you think so? Yeah, I think so. In a way that you haven't... I'm just saying, yeah, in the community, we do actually really appreciate that. It shows what you can achieve despite that hindrance. We've not been able to do that ourselves, but it's good that he's been able to.

44:09Luke Moore: It's very good. It is very good. Let's move on swiftly then. Chelsea 2, Manchester United 0. Oh, no punchable faces on display here. They only lost 2-0. Absolute punchable face FC on both sides. Proper Chels, this. Yeah, proper Chels. You're the Chels. You're the Chels. Manchester's... I nearly said Manchester City there. The reverse Gary Cook. Manchester United suffered their third straight loss. Never go full reverse Cook. Don't bottle it. Like caca. Third straight loss. There you go. There you go. They're without a win in nine games in all comps. The longest run since 1988. Every week there's a new one of these.

44:44Luke Moore: And they're all different. They absolutely look like a team who are capable of putting together a nine-game winless run. First half, they did all right. And that's the thing with these teams. That's the frustrating thing for the fans. But you know what? I said this about Spurs when they were going through what they were going through. Three wins in a row now, they're kind of out of that. But you see it quite a lot with teams who have got egos in it, who are... Let me use the Spurs analogy if I may. So when Spurs win the first two games of this three-game run, you know, De Zerbe doesn't really say much of interest.

45:17He kind of says what he says. After the game against Palace, it was really interesting. He said, we were pleased to win the first two games, but we looked like a bunch of good players. Now we look like a team, right? What he meant, I felt like, was they put together a performance of 90 minutes or 95 minutes. United, the point being, it applies to United as well because even the worst form teams at this level can do half an hour.

45:41Luke Moore: if you're in the Premier League, yeah, exactly. And what happens is they lose heart when stuff doesn't go their way because they've got no camaraderie, no team spirit. They don't like the manager or whatever. They don't like each other, whatever the situation is. And this is exactly what happened here. They started off well. They scored a goal, which is obviously very narrowly disallowed for offside. It obviously was offside, so that's how it goes. I get the point. Kuna does his surfer celebration. Everyone joins in and the goal gets chalked off. And they lose heart. and then they make a series of absolutely ridiculous decisions for top level pros and lose their heads and ultimately they probably should have lost by more than two.

46:21So the story, that's the story of the game really. I just thought the way they came out for the second half and the manner in which they conceded that Morgan Rodgers goal was actually pretty shameful.

46:35Luke Moore: Is Sir Jim Ratcliffe trying to get some tax breaks because they were very charitable. That Morgan Rodgers goal. It's a count of the donation. I think it might do. Did he hypnotise those players in some way? You don't need to, Jim. You don't need to. Do you know what? You don't need to. It looked really bad on the TV and then the ref cam was doing the rounds. Andre Santos on the ref cam. He's incredible. Best bit of TV you'll see all weekend.

46:56Jim Campbell: Oh, man. He's new to the club. It's like someone's pressed the wrong button and he's just done a tackle. Yeah, it is. Jim, he's new to the club. He's not always starting and he's new to the club. The issue, what I find difficult covering these specific types of goals is that you always get I always get stick from listeners and viewers saying oh you're not giving the attacking player enough credit and I'm about to say what I mean by that yes Rogers was brilliant yes it was an amazing killer instinct great close control good feet amazing finish you have to say that yeah of course brilliant player Morgan Rogers we know that but people were focusing almost entirely on Rogers when actually 99 times out of 100 when you see those types of goals and bear in mind it wasn't even that much of a mazy one it didn't need to be 99 times out of 100 those goals are only able to be scored at Premier League level because the defending is shamefully bad and what I mean by that in this specific instance you plan a Saturday casually and you've got a manager who actually cares you've got a proper set up you've got a manager who actually cares and you train and stuff at any level the manager is tearing his hair out there he's saying

48:08Luke Moore: You'll hear too easy, too easy. You've got to engage. A, don't wait until he gets in the penalty before you engage, because that's ridiculous. Stop him. You can't, the old adage, which is 100 % true at any level of football with that type of goal is, the ball or the man, both don't go. Both don't go past you, right? Take a yellow card, whatever. Both do not, they can't go past you. I mean, obviously,

48:30Jim Campbell: once he's in the box, you can't. It's hard, exactly. But once he gets in the box, you can see on Morgan Rodgers' face, he cannot believe his luck. It's like he snuck past the VIP rope. I've done it!

48:40Luke Moore: Have you ever... I once did. He is Charlie Bucket and Willy Wonka's golden ticket. Do you remember that nightclub in Bournemouth? His grandad's dancing in the background. Do you remember Elements in Bournemouth, that nightclub? Elements. Vaguely, yeah. Come on, vaguely. You were there once when I was there. Drunk. Ah. Hence vaguely. We're not all sober in nightclubs, Marcus, in the early 2000s. Carry on. Carry on. You said so many nice things about me like that. Anyway, my mate and I managed to sneak past two bouncers at different stages, and the people on the sort of reception, if you like. What was the VIP bit like at Elements Bournemouth?

49:13Luke Moore: Oh, we didn't get in there. More of the same. Honestly, but we couldn't believe our luck when we snuck in that club. Yeah, that's what Rogers has done. And I know how Rogers felt. And did you finish? Very quickly, did you finish? I'm not answering that. But I do know what it's like to score a goal from the Premier League. There we go. It feels exactly the same way. Honestly, going back to it, that kind of goal can only be conceded by a team who are just not at it, not connected, not motivated, not playing for themselves and for each other and for the manager. And obviously after that, it's clownish.

49:50I mean, the Martinez thing was, it's just clownish. Let's talk about the butcher.

49:54Jim Campbell: Like a butcher that keeps poisoning his own customers. Yeah, the butcher that just fucking... Salmonella outbreak at Lissandro's. Punched their health inspector. accidentally cutting up his own forearm, serving it to customers. Hilary Briss. If he's a butcher, he's Hilary Briss from League of Gentlemen. He's fucking Hilary Briss. He is. You got your special stuff, Hilary. I want your special stuff. You know what a Briss is? It's horrible. It's a Sunderland manager. When Martinez said that stuff about how they need to invest in the team and buy more players, I don't think at that point people knew that he meant he replaced themselves.

50:32Luke Moore: Yeah, he's having a shocking time of it. I mean against Bournemouth, some of his defending was lacklustre to say the least. Well Jim, and that, posit your theory, Marcus, Jim's got a theory about that. We ought to hear it.

50:42Jim Campbell: He is completely mentally checked out of his Man United career. He wants to move in January. He's just not putting in the effort that is required at that level. I'm not saying he's deliberately being terrible in games. Well you were saying that earlier. That's not what I said. That's why I read it. But I think he's putting in a level of effort that is leading to these mistakes. I just think he wants out of the club.

51:06Luke Moore: He's just sulking. Do you think there might be something in this? I mean, it's a bit of a stretch, but the World Cup, obviously, they had Argentine all the way to the final. Famous victory against... I forget who it was in the semi-final. But he goes from a side who are the ultimate band of brothers, who are in it together, like... The entire culture is us against the world. Oh my goodness, they are, you can't find a team that are so sort of united together in their quest for glory, right? And mugging everybody off. And he goes from that back to Manchester United. Bunch of six out of tens who hate each other.

51:42Luke Moore: You're giving them six out of ten. Okay, fine. Very generous. But I wonder if that has played, I know Martinez hasn't been great in previous seasons. As I say, it's a bit of a stretch and, you know, I'm not going to spend much more time on this. But it could be, he's just, I agree with you, Jim. I think he's done that. It's just if you look at both bookings. At Manchester United.

52:01Jim Campbell: The pull on Rodgers is ridiculous. There's no way you're getting away with that. It's far more egregious than the Timber one, actually, because he just keeps doing it. And it's like, you know there's going to be consequences for that. Did that set the bar for the Timber one, maybe? It may be, yeah. But yeah, the way he leads with his forearm on Fafana's face. Maybe he was listening to our show about Fafana being a dickhead. Also, he was a bit worried that Fafana was going to upstage him for being the most clownish centre-back on the pitch. Yeah, in a 2-0 win, he was still a liability. Yeah, absolute liability.

52:29But my theory with Martinez, and I've said this before, is, and it's Occam's razor, he's just not that good. I mean, he's just not that good. But he's better than this. He's better for Argentina than he is for Man United. He's fine, but... And if you say he's better than this, my answer in response to that is, I fucking hope so, because he's earning a lot of money and he's paying for one of the biggest clubs in the world. But there's no way on earth, 10 years ago, a player of his profile ability, physical profile as well, gets anywhere near my nose.

53:01Luke Moore: You were critical, to be fair, when they signed him from Ajax, wasn't it? It's not good enough. In fact, you referred to him as a human feather. He is. Which is surprising, considering he's an Argentinian centre-half, but maybe it's the Argentina shirt you put on and you become like a superhero. Human feather's probably not quite right, actually, in retrospect. He's more like Scrappy-Doo from Scooby-Doo.

53:21Jim Campbell: Okay. And if you get a feather stuck in your eye, that's going to hurt. And it's devious and nasty, isn't it? It's true. And it can tickle you. That is a good point. So I just don't think he's that good. And I think ultimately, what it comes down to is, of course, when a team is functioning and clicking and playing well together, it lifts everyone. And obviously, he's capable of good performances. And if he was, I fully understand that if he didn't have a fairly average fullback on one side and an aging Harry Maguire on the other side who didn't shower himself in glory that Rodgers go either, partly because of the great clever run by Esteval, who was fantastic, that's another story, he would look better, Martinez, but he doesn't look better because he's not that good.

53:58And all players look better when they're surrounded by the good players. You put Martinez in prime Arsenal, he would look better, but he's not going to get in that team in a million years.

54:08Luke Moore: Former Salampton man Jose Font, when he was next to Pepe with Portugal, he won the Euros. Yeah, there we go.

54:13Jim Campbell: And Martinez was a big target for Arteta and they ended up getting Zinchenko. So it'll be interesting to see how that timeline would have played out. you mentioned Estivel there just a little word for him he was fantastic and Chelsea fans have been a bit worried about his lack of game time so they'll obviously be delighted to see him come on and contribute and had two goals disallowed the second one I think he's unlucky there because his head was mildly offside and he didn't score with his head he scored with his foot I think they should tweak the rule on that he didn't come on he started the game sorry I meant he came into the team oh I see right yeah fantastic player I think he's going to be a significant player in world football

54:48Luke Moore: I agree there's a lot of competition that Chelsea have in that area of the pitch you know they are as we know this season they are good going forward but he does add something which the others don't I don't like to see goals disallowed for that I know it's the rules and I yeah fine I just think it's it makes what they're doing with that law you're talking about specifically there with Esteval being so minimally offside with a part of the body he didn't actually school with anyway that is whatever you think of it you've got to concede that is actively making the game worse for everyone the player who scores, the fans watching, etc.

55:22It's not a good thing. I don't know what can be done about it, but it is not a good thing. The interesting talking point around Esteveu specifically, I think, is that Alonso's resisted playing him partly because he wants to play a front three of Rodgers, Parma and João Pedro and he's found a way to play Neto as well who he loves. Yet he switched it up, played Neto almost as like a false nine and played Esteval off the right, and you would say that Esteval came pretty close to making himself impossible to ignore now. He was the man of the match in my view. I thought he was absolutely superb. And he's given Xavi Alonso a really nice problem to have for the next game.

56:02I look at Esteval and I think whenever I see him, even if he has a quiet game, he looks the real deal. I think he does everything brilliantly. I mean, he's not up against much fine in this game against United at home. but he was making big tackles like the fullback position as well. He's got a proper engine on him. You know, he battles back and everything. He's got it all. A lot of times those players don't know necessarily if they're going to be doing the defensive work but he was really good in front of a fairly inexperienced Achenpong behind him as well.

56:34Luke Moore: Do you know what convinced me to think this guy, he'll do his doggies is when I saw that video of him playing the drums at his church. There we go. He's got the fundamentals. Exactly. He's got the fundamentals. But I would be fascinated to see whether he starts against Sunderland in the next Premier League game. Because I think he... He could get a bit of joy against them. The only thing he didn't get was, you know, a goal which he deserved. I mean, he deserved to score. I mean, it's just a ridiculous kind of anomaly that he didn't. Before we move on, the chat around Manchester United is the hierarchy have reportedly privately pledged to give Michael Carrick until at least the international break to save his job.

57:11Luke Moore: What, one more game? Again. That was after the Bournemouth game, so it was two more games. Oh, okay, right. We're backing you. How many more games do you give me? One or two. Don't worry. Until the end of the season. Term. I don't think Michael Carrick is the problem here and I think we all can agree on that.

57:27Jim Campbell: I think either Michael Carrick or whoever else comes in simply has to sell the Man United players their own reality. No one seems capable of doing that. Absolutely not.

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59:31Luke Moore: Gentlemen, Aston Villa won, Fulham won. Unai Emery said it was a disappointing result, but a fair result. I think they deserved it as well, this draw. And what do you think about that as a Fulham fan, Marcus? I think it's slightly confusing, but I take his point. I think there were chances. You quite literally take his point. Stick it in your back pocket and head back to West London. Lovely old job. I mean, look, the sort of philosophical argument would be for a team who really should be mid-table in the Premier League, I think, as they've proved many times in the last few years, that a point on the road to a, as Arbeloa rightly pointed out, a Champions League side is always a decent result.

1:00:11Luke Moore: When you see some of the chances Fulham created, you think, could it have been more? But then Lindelof has the header at the end of the game. So fine, it's a point and you take the point. They generated more XG than Biller, didn't they? Yeah, I mean, John McGinn did smash his penalty against the bar. So you take the point. I think Fulham are definitely going in the right direction. I don't think there's any doubt about that. If you remember a few weeks ago, for the first time in a long time, I had my knife out. Yeah, It's unlike you. It was, and it felt pretty good.

1:00:39Jim Campbell: But I wonder whether... That was just to cut up some artisanal cheese. Yeah, exactly.

1:00:43Luke Moore: And the cheese knives are out at Graven Cottage. And when we finish this cheese, you better have improved your results. Unfortunately, he has. Here's a question for you, though. But do you think that Arboloha has all of a sudden become a lucky general rather than a good one? No, I don't, actually. But the manner of the goals they've scored. Well, okay. So, fine. Yes, on that part, without a doubt. I mean, Suzuki had a great game. other than one crucial moment. We've talked about him on Friday, I think. And how did they score against Coventry? That was a lovely goal from Oscar Bob. But the goal against Man United was very fortuitous.

1:01:16The Man United one, yeah. That was the draw, wasn't it, at home? The draw at home.

1:01:19Luke Moore: They'll do that, won't they? It's definitely two points drawn. It's so annoying. Fulham, when they were really playing badly, they played Sunderland. And they only drew against Man United. You're like, ah, can we have those games again? But anyway, against Hull when they won 1-0. Goal slightly fortuitous. Bit of a deflection goes under the keeper. but they're creating chances. So that is a positive, you create chances. They have to take them. Because you start, again, Fulham went toe-to-toe with Villa. And I know Villa haven't been brilliant this season, but I don't think anybody would suggest for a moment that Villa were a poor side than Fulham.

1:01:49Luke Moore: And I think Fulham, at times, did play really nice stuff. And where I give Arbeloa a lot of credit is, I think he was too idealistic when he came into Fulham. I think he had these ideas of, right, we're going to play like Luis de la Fuente Spain, or we're going to play like, you know, the way I think Real Madrid should play with the players that they have there and people bombing on and whatnot and it's just like pal you have to have a healthy dollop of realism especially in the Premier League and he's done that with his team selections and the way he set them up Fulham are now tough to beat if you remember it was chaotic at the start of the season the Palace game it was embarrassingly bad we defended them with like two players oh my goodness it was ridiculous it was that game wasn't it yeah a number of those games because again against Chelsea in the first game of the season you think actually Fulham scored a couple of goals a bit swashbuckling but we now know what Chelsea are like as well.

1:02:35Luke Moore: So you are going to get a bit of joy against them. So I think he's done really well to sort of begin to turn it round. Yes, it's only a point, but Fulham, after losing quite badly against Ipswich with two late goals, you know, they've beaten the Hull and they beat Coventry only by the, you know, one goal, but wins and wins. But that was the assignment they had to win. So I don't think after that game against Ipswich you'd have thought Fulham would get seven points in the next three games.

1:03:01Jim Campbell: And this is a tough place to go as well. If it's not quite a scalp, it's a nick of a scalp. Yeah, it's a little bit of a scalp. A chunk of hair.

1:03:09Luke Moore: Yeah, for sure. But Villa themselves, of course, would have... Maybe they were feeling a little bit sorry for themselves after what's been said about them. Yeah. So maybe for them, we're just capitalising on that. Just let them down. On Friday night, of course, Aston Villa put out a statement from their chairman announcing that the club would initiate legal action against Jamie Carragher for his, and I quote, unacceptable insults about the club and its fans. They finished the statement by saying, Aston Villa will not allow anyone to stop our ascension in English and European football. Like Carragher can do that.

1:03:47Luke Moore: Well, I mean, is he even doing his best? This came in response. I saw an Aston Villa fan the other day on Twitter saying, you watch like Stick to Football and when they talk about Aston Villa, I'm pretty sure they've all got earpieces in. Yeah.

1:04:02Jim Campbell: Tell them what to say. It was a Reddit post which I found and shared with the group, so I'll read the exact quote now. There's a reason Carragher, Harry Redknapp and Jamie Redknapp said what they've said. It's kissing ass and keeping United relevant. Also, I'm sure they've earpieces in and following a narrative. Reading the internet is like watching English degrade in real time.

1:04:22Luke Moore: It is. It is. Well, this is all in response to Carragher saying, and I'm going to quote him here, so we'll leave it up to you to think if he was stopping Aston Villa's ascension in English and European football. Carragher said, I'm not trying to annoy Villa fans, but there is a chain in football, a food chain he's talking about there, whether you like it or not. Real Madrid will take Manchester United's best player. They'll take Ronaldo. There's very few above Manchester United, the same with Liverpool. But there will be teams below Aston Villa and they will take their manager or they will take their players.

1:04:50Luke Moore: So shut the fuck up, Villa fans. Aston Villa will never be Man United. So apparently that is actionable according to the chairman of Aston Villa Football Club.

1:05:02Jim Campbell: He's made a big deal about the swearing, isn't he? Which seems to be... That seems to be a line. You can't swear about our club. What did you make about Carragher then apologising? I think that was a bit of a shame. I think it's a shame, but I think what's probably happened, right, is that someone from Sky or possibly CBS or possibly both has said, look, you need to sort of nip this in the bud. And I think, was it the overlap that he said it on? It was the football, yeah. Yes. I think, obviously, that's not a Sky product, is it? But it sort of looks a bit like it is, and I think that suits everybody for those two things to be associated.

1:05:35Jim Campbell: And I think it's sort of... I think when he works for those companies, he is inevitably going to get that. And I have to sort of examine this myself, really, because I love this sort of transgression, right? We're here to be entertained by football in all of its forms. but at the same time if Mark Chapman says Aston Villa dropped points today what a bunch of absolute pricks you know, here's Conor McNamara that would be really funny but it would also be slightly ridiculous but he couldn't do that on the BBC but maybe if he did that on his other podcast with Gabby Logan or whatever sure, I know it's not the same but I'm sort of thinking like but do I want this kind of absolute kind of carte blanche for people to just be as explicit as they want

1:06:19Luke Moore: I'm talking with Carragher, he's not being all sort of fan TV with this. He's not, like, having a go at the fans. He's not, like... He told them to shut the fuck up. No, but he's not getting personal with them. He's not looking at a group of fans and questioning their kind of, you know, morality, or questioning, well, I don't know, I don't want to start getting myself into trouble with certain examples that I use, but, you know, he's not accusing of, like, hooliganism. Do you know what I mean, for example? No, sure. He's not saying these fans are disgracing themselves and they're bringing the club's reputation up.

1:06:54Luke Moore: Poinsie's making it valid as well. Indeed, there is a food chain in football, for crying out loud. We've joked about it as well. I know that Josh King, if he carries on the way he's going, bigger clubs will want to sign him. It happened with Fabio Carvalho, who I think Josh King is a better player than Carvalho. But Carvalho was... It just happens. Of course it does. And he used the example of Manchester United and his own beloved Liverpool saying, Real Madrid are bigger. Trent went to Real Madrid. You know, like, that's the way it goes. And so he then just flippantly said, oh, shut the fuck up Villa fans, you know, sort of thing.

1:07:24Luke Moore: That's all it was. Look, I think we're going to talk about more of this on the mailbag tomorrow, I believe, because we had a question about it, and some of the sort of more surrounding issues of this kind of thing. But I just... Aston Villa fans... It's absolute timpott from the ownership. It really is. And it's so embarrassing for the fans.

1:07:41Jim Campbell: This is the key thing, yeah, it's embarrassing for the fans, you know, because Nasef Seviris, I mean, it's pathetic. threatening to sue people for their opinions. Anyone doing that is the enemy of all of us. And he kind of, I think he thinks like he, I think he thinks he sounds like a powerful man expressing authority, but he just sounds like a baby. A baby weasel that will grow up to be a prat. Yeah.

1:08:04Luke Moore: You are absolutely right, Jim. You're absolutely right. As I say, we're going to be covering that more on tomorrow's mailbag, and we're going to be considering what past opinions of ours might be suable. It's going to be a 14-hour show. Indeed it is. Gentlemen, very, very quickly before we go, speaking of Sueable, I do want to talk about Brentford beating Nottingham Forest 2-0. Great result for Brentford again. The Donaldson curse did strike again though. He cursed Nottingham Forest, of course. While dressed as Robin Hood, by the way.

1:08:32Jim Campbell: And Claudia Schiffer was in attendance, possibly to deliver the curse. Was she really? She was.

1:08:38Luke Moore: He's getting people to... I don't know. I can only speculate, so I've chosen to. I think it's a fair speculation. Well, Forest now sits second bottom of the Premier League, only Sunderland are below them, of course. But it was the post-match stuff, Oliver Glasner saying, we have to accept it's not good enough. That's why for me, now time to change things everywhere. I could see a few things from day one. I feel that maybe now I made too many compromises in some stuff. It's a clear way. I will tell the players what we want to do, what we have to do. And if the players buy in, we can have a turnaround.

1:09:10Luke Moore: If not, the sixth manager will come in. he's goading Maranakis really there isn't he I mean he said a lot more stuff which I wouldn't want to bore everybody with but he talks about the tactics and stuff and he said look it's not on the players it's on me but you know I'm going to do things my way as he said there I'm going to compromise and if not then you know over to you Maranakis although Maranakis you know he has had a lot of criticism it was there was a rare moment on Sky Sports recently where he got he got a bit of praise from Tim Sherwood Yeah, I mean that was interesting. Can I read the quote?

1:09:44Tim Sherwood's quotes were incredible. Yeah, go for it.

1:09:46Luke Moore: He said with regard to Glasner, they will lose next week against Manchester City and he'll get sacked in the international break. Look at the history of this football club. They change managers. Maranakis, I quite admire his stance. He pulled that club from where they've been to the Premier League and he's made changes along the way. He doesn't suffer fools. He will not have anyone speak out against his football club and I quite like it. Don't worry, Evangeloz. give me the job and I'll never criticise you that's basically what he's saying do you think Sherwood has a point there at all

1:10:15Jim Campbell: no I think he's trying to get the job that's a man who has looked at the current lay of the land and thought I know how to not get sued I'm going to cover my back here yeah I'd rather be at the devil's side than in their path so I'll take the job no problem do we think Glasner's off soon then well I don't know I mean I find it an interesting situation because for all the chat around I can believe this when I double checked it earlier but all this chat about um you know Nottingham Forest being this or that, and Glasner getting the respect he gets for the Palace job, which I agree with. Obviously, they won in Europe and they won the FA Cup and everything.

1:10:48They only finished a point above Forest last season. You know, so if all of a sudden Nottingham Forest are this terrible football team and aren't good enough and things need to change everywhere and you can see things from day one, you know, blah, blah, blah. I'd love to know why he thinks they only finished a point behind his all-conquering Crystal Palace team last season, which basically got him this job. so I think there's a little bit of self-preservation going on there I would say

1:11:12Luke Moore: I think Glasner's it's funny because we spoke about Palace I think it was an odd job for him to take anyway it was an incredibly odd job we spoke about Palace in the mailbag last week I think it was and I actually sort of slightly I said I think a lot of the stuff about Palace we were asked did the Crystal Palace hierarchy not back him enough when they perhaps should have and I thought actually a lot of what happened there was maybe more on Glasner than what we thought Vista disagreed and then gave his answer, which I think was a fair point. But the more I think about it, the more I see Glasner coming out like this, I'm thinking, I don't know.

1:11:46Luke Moore: I think Glasner's handling himself pretty poorly. It also feels like perhaps he's regretted taking the job. Because doing this in a public way, knowing what Maranacos is like, it feels a bit like when Conte was doing it at Spurs, publicly in press conferences, basically saying get rid of me you got rid of everyone else get rid of me cheers for the payoff I want to go and do a big job somewhere else or something because it's a very odd job from the takers we've said I think he's protesting a bit too much here they're unfortunate against Brentford as far as they score quite a weird own goal to put Brentford ahead Brentford are a good team I don't think many people would have expected them to go to Brentford and win anyway given the form they've been in and how good Brentford have been overall and the curse again is just the final nail in the coffin on Halloween, no less.

1:12:38So I think it's an interesting development. I was surprised when he came out and said what he said because you think that he had such a good time of it at Palace. He's so well respected up until this point. But to me, it just looks to me like he's trying to get fired. And the way he was at Palace as well,

1:12:53Luke Moore: he knew he wasn't going to get fired. On paper, the most successful manager in the club's history. And he was chipping off when he had a long time to go. They were still in the competition. They still went on to win a trophy as well. We were saying, Jim, I know you wanted to say something, but we were also saying at the time, with Glasner and Areola, the manner in which they've both chosen to leave each club, Areola not going to do Bournemouth and Europe when he got them there, and Glasner saying very early on, this is it for me, you think they're both going to go into massive jobs. Now, Areola does do that.

1:13:22We thought it might be Atletic Bilbao, but it turns out to be Liverpool. And Glasner turns out about Forrest. I mean, it doesn't make any sense.

1:13:29Jim Campbell: Yeah, other than in the sort of psychodrama narrative between the two of them. This whole thing feels like a last resort and it's the 2nd of November. I think that's what it's like to work under Maranakis. I think people underestimate whatever it is about the way he does things in terms of how limiting it is in terms of your own expression. This is the crux of everything he's complaining about. He's essentially saying, I'm not able to do things my own way here. And if that is the case, what's the point of hiring anyone? Do it yourself. Jim, you know it's early on in the season

1:13:57Luke Moore: because we had the two Scottish League Cup semifinals. Of course. It's a very, very early on in the season. Well, I think Glasner could take a leaf out of Ian Holloway's book. That seems doubtful. Allow me. Because Glasner, I think he needs to take a more caring approach to his plays, to his output generally. And if you compare it to Ian Holloway, who saw a situation that came up on the weekend where his Swindon Town team were playing against Rotherham in League Two, and the Swinland keeper, Connor Ripley, was getting distracted by the sun. In other words, the sun was in his eyes. The sun wasn't sort of blowing kissy faces at him or anything.

1:14:38Luke Moore: And there were no caps available for him to wear. So what does Ian Holloway do? He steps up where he's needed. He takes off his flat cap and he gives it to the goalkeeper.

1:14:46Jim Campbell: It's great stuff. And the goalkeeper

1:14:47Luke Moore: finished the game wearing a flat cap looking like a peaky blinder.

1:14:51Jim Campbell: I love this whole situation. I also love that it's allowed. Can goalkeepers wear any headgear? I hope so.

1:14:57Luke Moore: I think Holloway has found a law that may well need to be tightened up because if he's wearing a fedora next time... Yeah. Oh, you tell me that wouldn't be good. It'd be great. It'd be brilliant. Keepers always used to wear flat caps, didn't they? Back in the day. Cloth caps back in the day.

1:15:09Jim Campbell: Presumably it needs some sort of peak on it. And also, Swindon turned out to end up winning the game, by the way, because Rotherham had two players sent off. There we are. Alex Bruce is Rotherham. Is that right? Yeah. It worked. Could turn into his lucky hat. He might have to wear every single game now. I think they were both straight reds from bad tackles that happened because the sun was in their eyes. Could be. Maybe.

1:15:26Luke Moore: Could have been. Maybe. Well, there we are, everybody. Thank you very much for listening and watching the Football Ramble, part of the Echo's Creative Network. Of course, we're back tomorrow with the mailbag, so get your chops around that lot. Until then, thank you very much, Jim Campbell. Thank you. Thank you very much, Luke Moore. Thank you. And thank you very much indeed to Ian Conway. See you next time.

1:15:54Jim Campbell: The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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