Mackem mayhem

0:00My Lighthouse everybody, welcome to the Football Ramble! Slott and Salah made up and there was Mac of Mayhem. It's Monday, 15th of December. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm David Carledge.

0:24Hello, everybody. It's Monday. Heads on. Heads on. Hey. Oh. Bit of pride and bull. Come on. Seconds. Seconds. Don't worry about the seconds if you're getting your firsts. They've stopped their talk. They're arguing amongst themselves, aren't they? They don't like it up and other cliches. All that was very evident in the We're Tyne Derby. You see? Sunderland were at home, so you say We're Tyne Derby. Correct. Thanks for letting me know about that. And you should scorn everybody, including Luke Moore, when they get it wrong. Yeah, absolutely. But that is all to say that Sunderland beat Newcastle United 1-0.

1:02David sits there proudly as a proud macken with his scarf around his neck David what a victory what a victory for your boys he wouldn't have I suggested it might not have been the best game and he was like nah I loved it it was great it was old school it was in the trenches football I didn't want it nice do you know what I mean it's always nice to get one over the visitors the visitors you're referring to the scoreboard where Sunderland simply called Newcastle visitors which was a lovely little dig and of course Sunderland at the end of the game took a photo in front of the home fans at the end which is recreating the picture that Newcastle United took over or did when they beat them in the FA Cup in was it 2024?

1:43Yeah. Dan Ballard spoke about the pain of losing that game and said it prepared us for this game. Did Newcastle United just forget this was a derby match? It seemed so strange that Sunderland were first to every ball. Oh Dan Ballard was everywhere. He was a big main character energy from Dan Ballard. Every time there was an incident it felt like he was either the victim of it or the perpetrator of it. He was desperate to pop those biceps out at some point. He was. I think he's a bit devastated. I think he had that header at the back post and I think he was desperate to get them out. You could just see what he would have done.

2:10I think he wanted to take another one of Dan Burns' fingers as a trophy to wear around his neck. I was going to say, his ribs are on the barbecue. Yeah, well, Burns didn't last very long in the game, sadly. No. Oh my, I mean, it was, yeah. The performance from Newcastle United was so devastating that I can only use these words of Pete Donaldson's to sort of sum it all up. Well, that was fucking shit, wasn't it? David Cartlidge, enjoy those three points. Dear Lord, Premier League, what a sad little life. I hope you spend it, Premier League, on getting some lessons in grace and decorum. I mean, that, that, they were bad.

2:58I mean, I would say dog shit, but at least dog shit has some fucking nutrients in it. Wow. I wish he was here. Pete sent us that voice note from... The inevitable indie club. His post-match trip to an indie club. From the bathroom of an indie club, by the sounds of things. That's where he does a lot of his best work. Oh, yeah. I can imagine. If you want some aftershave, he's your man. But, I mean, Pete's right. Newcastle was so bad in this game. Yeah, they didn't turn up, I think, at the start. It took them a while to realise what type of game they were in. there was a couple of high balls bobbling around in the open in 20, 30 minutes and Sunderland were just racing for them all first and then I was like, I was like, okay, they actually really want it a lot, a lot more here.

3:40Newcastle gradually got into it. It just took time before they did and I think Sunderland had set their tone. I mean, yeah, I think you're being, even in that summation, I think you're being generous to Newcastle because I think they were that poor. Yeah. Like they were, the idea of being first, they were even second to every ball. Like, it's funny, when people sort of kind of scoff and laugh at pundits or chat which is kind of like first to every ball up and at them lads mean it and so on really this was a prime example of that do your doggies do your basics absolute basics I think people underestimate generally how important it is to be aggressive and on the front foot and snap into things particularly in the Premier League anyway the derby where in the league that hasn't happened for a long time and Sunderland would have been had all the motivation they need you know to not just because they've come up this season, but because Newcastle have had that investment and there's been a lot of headlines around Newcastle, the players they've been able to bring in, et cetera, et cetera.

4:36Of course you want to give them a bloody nose. I thought the way Newcastle approached it was actually pretty unforgivable. There's no real excuse for it. You can lose a game, of course, right? And this game, look, David will disagree and he's absolutely right to disagree if he wants to, but I thought the game was a load of shit and the quality was poor and there wasn't much entertainment in there beyond kind of the first 15 minutes or so when you go, okay, this is how this is going to go. And for it to be the muck and bullets in the trenches, you know, kind of warfare type game that you want to see from a derby, both teams have to compete in that.

5:11And Newcastle didn't really do that. So Sunderland kind of had their run of it. But having said that, Sunderland, I don't think, registered the shot on target until very, very late in the game. I think it was about the 70th minute with Isidars Volley. Exactly. So it was, but I'm taking absolutely nothing away from Sunderland fans and from the club. obviously it's a moment for them to enjoy but it was a disappointing occasion and I would lay most the blame for that at Newcastle's door Yeah and I mean look this has been coming for a while Newcastle fans have been unhappy with Eddie Howe and the set up for quite a while and the perceived negativity so I think you can understand it with where they approach it and again look if I was a Newcastle fan I would be fuming with the performance, I absolutely would because I want to see blood and thunder in a derby game, I want to see big titles, what Mukele did and then what Hume did when he flew in on Lewis Hall at the end as well.

5:58That's what you want to see in a derby. You don't want to see anything, David. You want to see something. Well, Trey Hume was pissed off clearly that he wasn't starting. Yeah. Because he's played a lot and he's been decent and for him not starting a big derby game, he'd be pissed off. And he basically took all of that out on, was it Lewis Hall? Lewis Hall. To his credit, who got up straight away. Yeah. Who didn't make a meal of it. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, which was perhaps the only bit of fight Luke Elson may be showing. I mean, I understand what you're saying about the sort of poor quality of the game and not many chances.

6:26But the fact is, Sunderland go 1-0 up right after the start of the second half. That does influence and inform how they then go about the second half. I'm not saying if that goal goes in, they're suddenly going to play free-flowing attacking football. But that goes in and they think, you know what, lads? We've been gifted a goal there. Because if that was at the other end, you'd say it was a great header from... It was an absolutely bizarre goal. I spent a time after trying to understand what he was doing and I still have no idea what he was trying to do. the only thing you can think of is that so I'm just trying to head it out for a corner obviously this is being generous but like defensive players are taught and coached to head the ball up and away and attacking players are taught to head the ball down and aggressively towards the floor to make it difficult for the keeper and it was almost like he couldn't head it up which is strange because but the angle he's at and so on I thought there was too much pace on the ball to achieve that he would have he would have been well used to defensive headers defending corners and stuff like that so you're basically going and Brendan over back was to help him out.

7:23I think it was just a massive brain fart. I don't think he got the connection he wanted maybe and it ended up obviously just flying in with no one really around him. I mean, if you're Sunderland, you can't believe you've scored there. Oh, it's astonishing. It was inexplicable. I just didn't understand it and again, the angle where I've watched it I just don't understand what he's trying to do. I just always put it straight back out in the direction where it's coming in. I just don't understand why he's done that. Did you enjoy Peter Durian comms? Mac of mayhem! He planned that. He planned it. Everything's planned.

7:47He plans too much. All bloody script. He plans too much. I told you about Drury. When we used to have Drury once a month on some European game, everyone, oh yeah, Drury. When you get him every day, it's like having fish and chips for dinner every night. By about the fourth night, you don't want it anymore. You don't want it anymore. He's a lovely, lovely man. I'm sure he's great. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but fuck me. He's planned it. Matterface gets stick for planning stuff. So you've got to give it to Drury as well. I'm not giving anybody stick. Fair enough. So it's a very tough job. Yeah. Play in the Newcastle midfield, if you like.

8:19Oh, dearie me. Because Newcastle, I feel like the other thing that's disappointing from the Newcastle point of view is they do have so many weapons as well. So if you look at, say, Alanga who went for big money. Very poor. Yeah. Gordon, again, didn't really do much. Really disappointing. Jacob Murphy came on, didn't really do much. He was really important to them last season. Walter Marder, we talked about. You know, Harvey Barnes, he's caught some headlines, couldn't do anything. We know what they've got. It's such an odd performance and Eddie Howe kind of apologised for the lack of creativity and one thing or another.

8:50I mean, they looked like they were, it was either they weren't up for it, so they were disinterested and thought, we can't be bothered with this. We just had a big trip away in the Champions League. This is beneath us or something like that. But I don't think that is the case, especially as you saw the reaction from the team and everybody after that victory in the FA Cup and the previous derby. They clearly really enjoyed that and the photo and all the rest of it. And by the way, all De Bruyne needed to do was put that photo on the dressing room wall at Sunderland with a big old close-up of Jason Tindall was obviously front and centre of that photo.

9:21I'd have done like a cock and balls on his forehead. Well, definitely post-match. You know, on his actual forehead. It's funny, the photo was decided on the pitch as well. Was it? So Ballard said it was literally dead in the moment. It wasn't pre-planned or anything like that. Or if we win, we're going to do this. It was literally decided. Are you sure? Marcus, Ballard said. Of course he did. Ballard's in the middle of everything all the time. I don't mind if Ballard pre-plans things, but you know he can do what he wants he does it Ballard has set up the photo and he screamed Mackham Mayhem yeah the Ballard of Dan and Mackhams but look with the yeah with the Newcastle performance it'd be one of those ones where the fans would just be going the Newcastle fans what the pissing hell was that yeah it's so disappointing because they go into it's a I it's so hard to find the words they must have been scared I don't know like they get off their but were they I mean I think it was This Newcastle side Are not the type of side That get pushed around easily I think Southern are good And Southern are good at home as well I think Southern are good Newcastle didn't realise How good Southern were And Newcastle thought Their quality would come through At some point And I think even at half time They thought Our quality will come through But they never woke up No I know But that's arrogance Well maybe it is David And I'm sure that's I was about to say It's a yarn You're very very happy To spin today But again Newcastle fans Would just be thinking I just don't get that Particularly as they appeared to have turned a corner in their league form.

10:44So they came off into this game with the back of some good results. The story of them before that was they were pretty good in the Champions League but had been pretty bad in the league. The league table reflects that Sunderland are a better team than Newcastle at the moment particularly at home. They're a good home side as we've talked about. I think you can separate these things out. Can Newcastle go to Sunderland and lose 1-0? Absolutely. Sunderland have been good and this is their last probably turn around the dance floor before all their players leave for AFCON so that's important for them to get that right but and that's one thing the other thing is that the performance is unjustifiable I would say it is because if you go really hard and you push and push and push and Robin Roof has a fucking worldie and that can happen that didn't happen no not at all the door was never broken down at any point and don't get me wrong Sunderland didn't absolutely pepper the Newcastle goal mouth but Newcastle I think the onus was on them after they'd gone behind to absolutely rattle sunlight.

11:40And they didn't, kept organised, kept measured and managed to see it through. And I feel, the person I feel sorry for most is the director of Sky Sports Super Sunday. Yeah. Who had the right to expect more from that fixture. I thought the people you're going to feel really sorry for were of course the Piff Posse who were in charge of Newcastle. Always feel sorry for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always feel sorry for them. Me and Rio Ferdinand, we're always making sure they're alright. That's right. Men of the people. Men of the people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. But they are some of the few people that will be very, very happy to pay whatever for World Cup tickets.

12:11Absolutely. Going back to the game, when's the last time Newcastle beat Sunderland in the league? A long time ago. There was a graphic on Sky Sports before the game. It was years and years and years ago. Sunderland undefeated in the last 10 Premier League derbies. Which is, again, I get that Newcastle, a way to buy Leverkusen, that match took a bit out of them. But you saw the way they managed to turn that match around because they were totally under the cosh early on. and it was impressive how they managed to turn it around. Unlucky not to win it. Bit of a sucker punch at the end when they'd had a couple of efforts that were very, very close.

12:42And I still think, I mean, you don't have to be an Eddie Howe out man to be critical of Eddie Howe, particularly of this display. And it was similar to last season at this time going into the Christmas period where people were thinking, come on, Newcastle, you know, you've got to pick it up a bit. Just the odd little teensy whisper here and there about if it doesn't change around, you know, Howe might be a bit of trouble. And then, of course, they go on that run was it post Christmas if my memory serves me well you know obviously win the cup and qualify for the Champions League again so that could well happen I just see Newcastle this season so far as it's almost like the league they're a bit like oh yeah as you said David there's almost a sort of an arrogance or whatever of our quality we'll be fine in the league let's concentrate on the cups because they saw what winning the cup meant to the people you think if we can win another trophy if we can have a good run in the Champions League blah blah blah but at some point you are going to have to get and I really thought that since the international break as Luke says their results have been a bit better performances have been a little better as well not hugely better but a bit this was a chance and my goodness their performances have been better they beat Man City and they smashed Everton at Everton and Everton were good this season yeah they looked markedly improved on their day they better do it yeah yeah and we've said when they got the fullbacks back they've improved they look like a different side with that but I mean they were playing quite inside I thought this game they weren't really overlapping and going around Sunderland because of Sunderland's shape but look it's an interesting about Newcastle because I mean what say they finish 5th or 6th I still think Howe is going to be judged the PIF are going to look at them and go have we gone forward this season?

14:12Have we made marked improvement for what we have put into the club? He might better use the Champions League as a fig leaf because last time they got in the Champions League they didn't get out of the group and this time they almost certainly will move into the next phase and it could get interesting for them and that might be a fig leaf. Yeah, absolutely but I still think they will look at it and say oh what managers are available who can potentially take us further and push on. Yeah, no, that's always going to be the case at the club. I would put something a little bit more cheeky, perhaps bordering leaving the cheeky territory and perhaps even venturing a toe or two in the pond of unfairness by saying that I wonder if with those types of games, Eddie Howe is the character that you want managing your team.

14:53And I think the reason I'm saying that is because his reputation is built on what he did at Bournemouth. And Bournemouth any local rivals, Southampton really and no one really cares about that he goes into Burnley, doesn't do really well obviously goes back to Newcastle they haven't played Sunderland much, they've played him once and obviously I understand they beat him in the cup, but generally I can't help but feel that when you're about to play a big game it's probably the biggest game for years in terms of local derby for Newcastle and Sunderland and is he the guy to get you up for it? It felt a bit to me like when Rud Hullit was saying that's just another game.

15:34That's where you've got to outsource it to Tyndall. Yeah, to Tyndall would be doing a lot of heavy lifting you'd expect. But do you remember when Rud Hullit... The corns and balls and training. Rud Hullit lost his job basically to say it's just another game. So to piggyback on that or to add to it I know what you're saying I felt that there was almost and maybe it is more the arrogance of it David because I'm trying to figure out what kind of emotion was it fear? Was it, I don't know tiredness or whatever? but maybe it was a touch of arrogance of, lads, we're a Champions League club. Don't get drawn into it.

16:02Yeah, I think it was that. I think it was that. And Sunderland were a bit like, well, that's absolutely fine. Because not only are you going to get drawn into this fight, we're not going to give you any kind of creative outlet. So therefore, if you're not going to roll your sleeves up and get down and dirty with this, then you've got nothing. Yeah. Absolutely nothing. And it showed. And I think there's a difference between not getting involved in it and not being aggressive enough to give yourself a platform to actually do something. Yes, there's not getting involved, but you can also, you know, sort of Lennox Lewis say, all right, we'll keep you at arm's length, but I'll still be jabbing away.

16:35There was nothing, absolutely nothing. And some of them have bitten both their ears off. That was Holyfield, to be fair, wasn't it? Ballard got one ear and Xhaka got the other. Yeah, yeah. Oh, dear. Who's took Dan Burns' finger? No, I didn't have it when we started. I didn't know when we started. I don't know. I'll tell you what, though. the Tifo at the start of the game with the Black Cat quite terrifyingly sort of mauling that magpie that was sort of indicative of what was to come I like that I enjoyed that what do you think of Tifos I mean they're very much a part of the Premier League now no I think I think it's great I think sometimes it's looked down upon by miserable English fans I know Palace do don't point at me I've said before I'm quite indifferent I don't mind them but if they disappeared it wouldn't bother me so I'm not slagging them off I know Palace fans try to that Arsenal one I was slagging off Yeah, we all were.

17:23We all were. The second one was better from Arsenal. Fair enough. You've got to start somewhere. And the story behind that was apparently Arsenal fans had a good one and the club said, you're not having that. We're doing our own one. And it was shit. So, yeah, we were slagging off. No, I admire it. Palace fans are making an effort. Arsenal fans have made an effort in terms of moving the fans to a specific area of the ground to try and create an atmosphere. I'm all for that. It's better than going to a game and sitting on your hands or something like that. It's like, fucking, come on, man. Create something.

17:49Or taking your trousers down like that Sunderland fan did a number of years. Yeah, absolutely. That's absolutely apparent. It wasn't you, was it? No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. Did you know him? I do that outside the ground. When you're away to Newcastle. I think suddenly, if you look back on it, all the stuff that, I mean, it's easy to write the script because it's under one, and maybe you can backfill the narrative, but like the TIFO, the calling Newcastle visitors, the performance, all the chat around it, Big Dan Ballard, they got everything right. Newcastle seems to have got everything wrong.

18:15Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely right. Okay, coming up after this, Rhea Ferdinand and Jamie Carragher are having a diff.

18:32Two sloppy goals. And the facts are the whole card whole card whole cold reality is that Welcome back to Football Round everybody. Scotty Park having a little stumble there. He's trying to say cold hard reality. It happens to the best of us. It's like Marcelo Bielsa trying to say hip switch. To be fair Marcelo Bielsa are speaking a different language. What's Scott Parker's excuse? Ipswich is the same in every language. That is true. That is true. Thanks to Friend of the Ramble Blair for sending us that clip. You can become a Friend of the Ramble too. Search patreon.com forward slash football ramble or click that join button on YouTube to get involved.

19:09Of course, Fulham beat Scott Parker's Burnley 3-2. The first time in a long time Fulham have won at Burnley. That monkey's off their back. The sky's the limit now. And with Harry Wilson in your team, gentlemen. Oh, what a player. What a man. The form player in the Premier League, you'd have to say. Unbelievable. And he is someone who could help you, Marcus, emotionally. Me personally. No, he could help you emotionally get past your love affair with Tom Kearney's left foot. Well, maybe there's a passing of the baton here. The king is dead. Long live the king. He's not dead. He's still in the squad.

19:39But you know what I thought when the first goal went in? Here we go. Oh, spell around a meal, Smith, bro. Yeah, nice. But do you reckon there's a chance that Harry Wilson has had Tom Cairn's actual left foot grafted onto his leg. But it appears. It could be possible. It's the only explanation I can think. I'd like an inspection. Yeah, I mean, clearly Wilson had that wonderful left foot of his before he joined Fulham. It was good, but now... Yeah, it's great. I think it's the best in the world. For fuck's sake. Oh, God. Oh, look at him, look. Let me have a moment, eh? David's had his son. Sounds like you are having a moment.

20:15Coughing and spluttering away through that. Oh, my goodness. anyway there was another 3-2 win in the Premier League Aston Villa beat I've done a Scott Parker Aston Villa beat West Ham 3-2 in a 5 goal thriller another form player in the Premier League at the moment is England's number 10 Morgan Rodgers come on what about that one where he won the game what a player even when he was out of form I was like he's too good he seems like a lovely lad as well by the way he does title chase in Aston Villa I love that I love that they're on the verge I love that do we give it I love that chat yeah when Man City inevitably fade away I would love a three team a three horse race in that type of race it would be good because last season we had nothing we deserve an extra team who would you like to win out of the three and if you don't say Villa Aston Villa yeah of course it would be beyond hilarious if Arsenal don't win it Man City winning it is dull apart from the fact they get to lord it over you a little bit true Aston Villa winning it would be sensational great I still love the Aston Villa team in the 90s do you Yeah, yeah.

21:17Last ones to win a trophy. Yeah, well, quite. For the old villains. Yeah. It's been a while. I mean, surely they've got the Europa League wrapped up already. You'd hope so. You know, he's got... With Emery, I was going to say. Yeah, exactly. The cheek cord. That's in the bag. That's safe. If you look at Emery's body language, he is absolutely loving it. Yeah. He's got the bit between his teeth. He wants it so bad. Is it fair to say he enjoyed when they beat Arsenal? Oh, mate. Yeah. He loves it, doesn't he? Yeah, of course he does. That's his derby. But even the opening goal they scored in the most recent Europa League game, he was going mental absolutely mad pumping his fist in the Europa League because he just loves the Europa he does it means a lot to him yeah fair enough I'd love to see him do it we'll be discussing Unai Emery's Premier League chops on tomorrow's mailbag so follow the Football Ramble in your podcast app or on YouTube so you do not miss it so more Villa chat tomorrow on the mailbag some Liverpool chat today though they beat Brighton 2-0 Hugo Eketike got a brace got the first one very early on the quickest goal in the Premier League so far this season David just what the doctor ordered down at Anfield?

22:13Yeah, it's like they've turned a corner and they're on an unbeaten run now, you know. It's all rosy. Salah's back involved, you know, everything's great again. The songs are being sung and so on. Yeah, Salah returned to the Liverpool bench after missing out against Inter, came on in the 26th minute which was a shame because obviously Joe Gomez went off injured. I think you've got to give Liverpool an honour slot and dare I even say Mo Salah, although we'll see as soon as he gets in front of those Egyptian journalists that have gone to town, long will they last? But no, I think considering what a furore it was, Luke, after that, Ellen Rowe, for it to be certainly today, as we saw on the weekend, but as we're sitting here today, that could have blown up and gone on.

22:57It seems to have been nipped in the bud pretty quickly and calmed down. You've got to give them a lot of credit for that, I think. Yeah, I suppose so. I think a lot of it is the fact that the media is how it is these days. I mean, we were lording it up, chatting about it over and over again. But Salah's comment. They were explosive. They were explosive comments. This is not just a chuck away line and we're all interpreting it one way. No, no, no, totally. And Jamie Carragher, who we're going to go on to. I was going to say Carragher with the follow-up, like exaggerating. Yeah, but he did. Carragher did make the point.

23:21I think the most pertinent point Carragher made, as I say, we'll come on to it with him and Rio Ferdinand in a minute, but I think relevant to your question specifically is that he said that he reckoned that Mo Salah had spoken to the press in the mix zone four times in eight years and every single time it had been to complain about something, right? So clearly it was a part of a pattern of behaviour. So I don't think we were overblowing it or anything like that. But I do think there might be some intel in there about how Arna Slott is. Because a week or so ago we were talking about how it's not necessarily to be taken for granted that Slott could navigate this because he's not had a huge amount of experience at this level.

23:57What I feel like now coming up the back of it, given that Salah's about to go away and everyone's going to get a bit of a break and given that they won the game, it feels like there might be a kind of a vuncular arm around the shoulder, a quite gentle side to slot because he did say in the press conference last week, look, just because I'm calm and I don't raise my voice and I'm not one of these explosive type people, it doesn't mean I'm... I can't stick the head on him. I can't take any shit. I'm paraphrasing. That's basically what he was saying. So look, on the game itself, I would diverge slightly from you guys because I would say that's a very fortunate start to the game for them.

24:30Oh, it was. And they would have been so, so happy to have a start like that. Secondly, fine. they score a second and on paper it looks like a routine 2-0 win at home to a fairly decent side and that's what they need Brighton created so many chances Herzl said they deserve more maybe even a win I agree I can't believe they didn't score they definitely deserve more I mean the amount of chances they made was to me kind of indicative of a continuing issue of how Liverpool are playing and we can't be tempted to just you know interpret the result without looking at the performance From what I saw, the Liverpool performance was actually probably a bit more of the same.

25:09They just got on the right side of it. And I would also add, just finally before I hope I throw it back to you guys, that in Hugo Eketike, they've got a player who now, he just needs to play every game. If you look at the manner in which he scored the first goal, inside a minute, completely instinctive, completely confident, no messing around, exactly what they need. And the fact that the Izak saga has been there has totally obscured how to the manner born he looks and how good he's been. He has to play. He has to play every game if they want to get out of this mess. I don't think a 2-0 win at home to Brighton, given that performance that I saw, means an awful lot, but it's three points, it's important, but I don't think it means their troubles are over.

25:49I know you're being sarcastic when you're saying that, but I just want to make the point. David, what did you think of the whole Mo Salah thing in the context of this game and the way Arna Slott, because to me, Slott, as Luke was saying there, he's been very impressive, I think, in the last week or two, one might argue. It's quite statesman-like. He's put it to bed very calmly in front of the journalists because even he could have said a few things. I mean, he admitted, he said, well, the reason why I didn't go to Inter was because of the interview. We decided he wasn't going and that was that.

26:18But, you know, Mo Salah, we all want him playing. I personally, from where I'm sitting, I think he's managed it very well. Whatever's gone on there, the club, as I say, we'll see as the weeks go by, AFCON and what's said there and whether this is his last game or not, blah, blah, blah. I think there's quite a bit of credit needed To be given to them for this Oh absolutely He's managed it really really well But that's in terms of in the press There's still the issue here Of him whether he gets in the team again Or whether he stays on the bench What happens when he comes back from AFCON What happens if Liverpool have kicked on Had a very good Christmas period While Salah's way at AFCON Egypt go all the way He comes back And then it's going to be like Oh by the way there's still no place for you in the team So that's going to be interesting to deal with then so I still think the problem is there sure but yes I completely agree Slott has managed it really really well I also think it makes it look like Salah's completely overplayed his hand yes and Salah doesn't really know what to do because the reason I say that is because he doesn't go to Inter that's his punishment maybe he sits down with Slott and he says okay look fair enough I'll take that one on the chin right but then what he could have done if he wanted to be really intransigent and wanted to really take the power and really kind of impose that player power on the situation given his profile the player that he is and how much money he earns and all the rest of it.

27:33He could have said, right, if you're not taking me to Inter, I'm going to Egypt now then. He didn't do that, tellingly. Not only did he not do that, he gets recalled for the game against Brighton and put on the bench again, which he accepts. Then he comes on, contributes, celebrates and all the rest of it. It looks like someone who's really got a point to prove. He was really kind of active in the game. He wasn't like he was going through the motions. And as you say, Slott comes out of it smelling of roses, really. because what to me it would have been overwhelmingly likely if we were to believe the kind of reputation Salah's got or that Jamie Carragher and other people have given him that if he had been left out at Inter and then put on the bench again at Brighton that's a piss take that's basically a continuation of what he's complaining about in the first place right but he's backed down it seems well totally which is why I'm saying everyone deserves a bit of credit in particular slot I actually think you've got to say okay fair play to your Mo Salah there now like I say he may go to AFCON and go right I'm on a different continent I'm going to let you out I don't think he is going to do that.

28:31He might start doing a daily Twitch stream. I still think there's going to be at least one interview with the Egyptian press while he's over there. And some comments will come out, and I still think they've got to react to that. And I still think if they get 80, 100 million bid in January, he's off. Maybe. Maybe, yeah. Maybe he'll be like, if I do this in Arabic, there's no way. No way. They're going to find this out. Who was it? It was in, which South American player was it? Daniel Munoz, wasn't it? Was it? Stanley Watt, the paper man in Man City at Arsenal. Find it in Spanish. Exactly. They all find it these days.

28:59these Twitter aggregators they'll find everything so I think again you've got to say fair play all round there but you're right I mean was that his last game time will simply tell but I think again I don't want to be all sort of soppy and silly here but I thought it was really good to see the fans singing his name bearing in mind what he means to the club I know you'd rather Slott and Salah have a physical punch up in front of the team we all would we'd all run yeah as I'm saying that I'm thinking what am I talking about I'm kidding myself but do you know what just lastly on this chat I think what may have maybe changed Salah's mind is in particular in that game well no specifically that game away at Inter the fans were singing Slott's name yeah yeah and as some you know commentators Carragher in particular have said the hardcore Liverpool support he said it would take something monumentally bad for them to turn their back on the manager yeah unless you're really shit and Slott has delivered a Premier League title so therefore even if Slott was sacked in a few weeks for doing whatever he's still he's still a Liverpool legend because he delivered that title Roy Hodgson got a lot of stick generally speaking they are quite a lot I just said the last thing we were going to move on there's no need to drag Roy's name into this he's a manager who got a lot of shit it's completely contextually relevant to your point it's not relevant at all you said a Liverpooler he'd never won the league well I just said that you have to be quite shit before they turn their back on you like Roy Hodgson okay fine yeah poor old Roy I know That was unnecessary.

30:29You know it was. It's a season of goodwill. I'd remind you to remember that. Unnecessary doesn't mean wrong. Your honour. Anyway, we've mentioned Jamie Carragher's name. Let's talk about Carragher and Ferdinand. After the game, Ria Ferdinand tweeted Jamie Carragher saying, Mo Salah being sung by the cop. Thoughts, Carragher? Yeah, I think, you know, sometimes you see those clips that do the rounds on your social media application of choice. and it's either a GIF or a very short video of a clown constantly smashing a custard pie in his own face and then doing that kind of sad face and looking at the crowd to entertain them.

31:10I feel like Rio Ferdinand's been doing this for quite a while now. He's got absolutely no context or self-awareness of that the only possible action he could take now to rescue himself is to be quiet for ages. he's got no redeemable qualities whatsoever it is quite astounding the custard pie is now it's like a half brick now isn't it you're not enjoying this please stop for your sake not ours we know what we think of you now that social media meme that goes around which is the best time to delete this was just after you posted it the second time is right now every single time Ferdinand pipes up it's like that man and Carragher Carragher is you know emotionally led particularly when it comes to Liverpool not perfect by any means as we know but he's a good pundit he's a thoughtful guy I feel like he's moderately intelligent as well and this will be sport for him yeah he's relishing it yeah Ferdinand's already saw the saw the bear because as soon as he realised he got called out by Carragher he just put the old fishing emoji out there so that he was just taking the piss fuck off yeah exactly that is the only thing you can say that fuck off yeah clown emoji yeah well done I always think I always think The fishing emoji is a sign that you've lost.

32:26Of course it is. And you've been caught out. You absolutely, yeah. It really is. It's the last refuge of the completely incorrect. It is not an ace card. No, no. Basically, what you're doing is two of diamonds. No, that doesn't. There's also a really, having said that, I think Ferdinand should just go away and be quiet for a while after the few weeks he's had. I do believe that. But I think there's also something he could do which would really rescue his reputation almost instantly. And it would be to come out and say, I'm separating myself from anything to do with the World Cup anything to do with FIFA I was very proud to do the draw which is fair enough he wanted to do it and I think that's fair enough but the stuff I've said the stuff about the tickets it's wrong I don't want to be a part of it anymore it's beyond the pale and he could actually emerge from this with a bit of credit he's not going to do that because he's got absolutely no self-awareness whatsoever Jimmy Carragher in a way invited him to do that when he replied saying with regard to Mo Salah's being named so at the Kop he said rightly so he was fantastic when he came on thoughts on the price of the World Cup tickets Rio Ferdinand a man of the people would surely call FIFA and Infantino out was your pay packet for the draw brackets acting to buy your silence yeah got him didn't he but that is at the core Rio Ferdinand won with the fishing emoji sure Carragher would have been gutted about that but that is at the core of what without taking it into too serious a place that is at the core of what sports watching actually is Rio Ferdinand has basically been a conduit for sports washing because people will look at it and go, oh, Ria Ferdinand, he was a great player.

33:55He's a character. A lot of people out there like him. You know, fuck knows why, but they do. And that's how they get you because if Ria Ferdinand is endorsing this, it has to be okay. It's all right for us to not be tucked in by that because we do this every day. People who don't think that much about it will say, okay, well, they've got Ria Ferdinand involved. That's why they wanted him to be the acceptable face of this. Yeah, and not even he can obviously carry the price of the tickets and everything. and he should turn around and say this is bullshit. He's torching his own reputation and what little he had of it left.

34:24Yeah. But in four years' time, when they do the draw again, I can change my tune in FIFA. Yeah. And he's much better actor than Rear. I'll give him that. Yeah. And like me, I've never scored against Zika Casillas either. And he will be able to work out what was in the rehearsal and what wasn't. All right. Coming up after this, Arsenal wobble at home to Wolves.

34:57Arsenal 2, Wolverhampton Wanderers 1. Late drama at the Emirates Stadium. Nearly a good result for Aston Villa, this. But Wolves managed to... I feel sorry for poor old Wolves. Yeah. Two own goals. What are you doing? What are you doing? It was a good performance. They even got an equaliser. And you're thinking, hang on. Oh, yeah. that. It was a signal for them. Sam Johnson, who's been a fine servant, scoring a really unlucky one, wasn't it, David? I mean, the way the corner kind of swings in. But I mean, defensively, they set themselves up well. The chat here really is about Arsenal nearly balling up and not actually cashing in their Wolverhampton Wanderers voucher.

35:39What did you make of it all? I think Arsenal are clearly fatigued. Wolves gave a really good performance, absolutely. But Arsenal still got three points and on the way to a title you can't win every game three and four nil and steamroll everybody you know the great Manning United sides won a lot of games in this fashion Arsenal just did that they got the three points they didn't drop any points and I think that's what's important here I think the thing I'd be most concerned with is what's happening with the striker they signed this summer and Giogares that is the thing that I would take as the most concern from this game and other games as well he looks desperately desperately shit and it's a massive concern for them moving forward because they need his goals that's why he was brought in because they wanted to get over the previous seasons when they haven't managed to do it they haven't managed to get enough goals to do it and he was brought in for this sole reason he does not look like doing it at all there's a so there's a lot of talking points around this game I think I don't think it's just about Arsenal but I think you know you have to Wolves fans will have to forget first of all Wolves fans will not be listening because they'd have wrapped their hand in on football weeks ago they're 14 points from safety They've lost every game since October the 5th.

36:49I mean, it's extraordinary. It's hard to think of new things to say about them. They've been unlucky here. They set themselves up fairly well. I agree with you guys. They frustrated Arsenal. Arsenal were there for the frustrating, I think. And I think the talking points around Arsenal, Giocares is definitely one of them. But I think Arteta has a big decision to make about whether he puts his personal pride to one side or not. And what I mean by that is, Giocarez was the big striker they chose now I know there were financial implications as to reasons why they didn't go after maybe one or two other strikers because they wanted to spend a finite amount of money on a player and they could get Giocarez but essentially exactly what David said correct now there's two people waiting in the wings Gabriel Jesus and Kai Havertz I suspect that Arteta will probably start to move Giocarez to one side when Havertz comes back and rely on Havertz who he loves and if Havertz's body can hold up to it it's been a serious injury he's had is talk of him coming back next week.

37:45If Havertz's body can hold up to it, he'll be leading the line for Arsenal ideally for the rest of the season. Absolutely. The second point I just make is that it depends which way you want to look at this game. You can look at it as the way that David's looked at it and said, you know, win ugly, all that stuff. Man United's a good example, blah, blah, blah. To me, it depends whether you think it's that or whether you think they're starting to run out of steam a little bit. Well, David is saying they looked leggy and tight. They did, definitely. I just think both, I think the fact that they can be fatigued but still manage to screw about a win is...

38:16At home? To probably one of the worst teams in Premier League history? Yes, sometimes it happens. Sometimes it happens. But then what happens next? My question is what happens next? Well, that's the key thing. What we haven't got there yet. They're going to be good at some part next, right? Yeah, I mean, that's going to be an absolute test. I mean, they have a squad now where they can, and what you're saying, should rotate. I mean, you saw Nani Madueke. Have they, though? Well, you saw Madueke in... Have they at the back? Well, currently they are. I mean, because... Okay, Saliba was there, Yeah, but Gabriel...

38:43But is it... So you said they've got a squad there. Yeah. Everyone's talked about how they've got the deepest squad in the Premier League. And it wasn't that long ago we were talking about teams not even getting shots off at them, that alone scoring against them. That was clearly going to be unsustainable. When people talk about their depth, they talk about the depth in the final third. I don't think the people's talking about how strong they are at centre-back especially. Yeah, because I don't know if they can... I just don't know if they can sustain, you know, all the way through to May when they have one...

39:11even when they have one or two key injuries, at the back particularly, it feels bad for them. You could say the same about Man City and Aston Villa. Maybe, yeah. And that's the difference. I think what we're doing is we are still comparing Arsenal this season to a perfect Manchester City or to a near-perfect Liverpool last season or a perfect Liverpool season under Jurgen Klopp. I think that's what we're doing. That's not the case this season. I mean, that's not what I'm doing. That's not what I'm doing either. I'm comparing the Arsenal of last season. Fine, okay. So I think a lot of people are comparing that.

39:45Your comparison with Ferguson's Manchester United, I think, was a better one because they were seldom, would you say, they were perfect, but they were Premier League champions. They did it. And that kind of result, as you say, I'll win ugly and ultimately a good response after going, or when the Wolves get the equaliser. So I think when you look at it, they're not going to win every game three or four nil and just steamroller teams and so on and so forth. but going back to the point about squad rotation yeah I think that some of those players are knackered you know Saka okay he got sort of two assists if you like he's not quite looked himself yet this season I would say there's still a few bits and pieces to kind of maybe or one or two players to iron out but I think when Nandi Madiweke for example starts during the Champions League game midweek and you know that's great and that's what they need to do and I think what they have to do is find a way to rotate a bit more.

40:42I mean, even if you bring in Norgard for, I don't know, someone like Declan Rice for a couple of games, if he's knackered or whatever, they're simply going to have to do that because as you say, they are looking a little bit tired and some of those players have played a lot of football and they're going to keep on going and they're going to be firing on all fronts and so on and so forth. With Jesus coming back, I think that's a lovely one. If Havertz can come back in there as well, yeah, absolutely, because Jesus, I think he'll be playing on the wing more I don't think he'll be front and centre He said that a while ago It depends though If Giocares is not scoring He might have to play through the middle Well he might have to do Take Havertz as a setback Which can happen off the back of such a serious injury Sure I mean I don't think Havertz is not a prolific goal scorer But he knows how to play in this team more I think with Giocares It was always a bit of a gamble Because if you remember when Arsenal had those options of strikers It was Benjamin Szczesko was one now you know you wouldn't say they've missed out on him particularly would you with what he's done I understand he's at Manchester United he's also injured yeah I get the fact that you could put and I think they bought Giogra's with it in mind that he's a bit more ready made they looked there and said he can come in and score 25 Sesko isn't scoring 25 until maybe three years down the line sure and again he's gone to Manchester United you could put you know the great Ronaldo phenomenon in this Manchester United side in his peak and he would still be crap you know so I understand that the other striker was Victor Rossum and that just seemed to be like a a no-go area for a lot of teams for whatever reason.

42:06If they wanted a striker, their options were limited. It's not like there's tons of other strikers out there who were ready to be plucked and so on. But with Jokereds, you're right. I think that this season, really, if you're going to be really fair to him, this is the season where you think, okay, give him a season to bed in and then maybe next season. But the problem is they're going for everyone. They are quite literally going for the Premier League and the Champions League. But we talked about Jokereds loads. And Jokereds is not up to speed yet. Yeah, quite. Right, or maybe she isn't good enough.

42:35The story off the back of this isn't that though. The story off the back of this is that in three of the last four Premier League games, in terms of the actual eye test, Arsenal just haven't been that good. They've been passive. They've got out of jail occasionally. But why do you think that is? I think it's because the level they got up to at the start of the season was impossible to sustain and they've dropped off and they've had injuries in key areas. And I think because if you look at a team like Man City, fine they have a bit of life or death against Fulham but generally speaking they just seem to be knocking teams over now I know they're concealing goals in the way they didn't before but I just look if you're Arsenal you know what Man City are capable of and you know what they've done over and over again right I just think there's a lot of signs in the game against Wolves that we just talked about I mean Arteta said it himself they were way too passive there's no excuse for it you know and I'm sorry I understand you can have injuries and I understand you can have an off day but this team if they're going to win the Premier League and they might still do it if they're going to win it if you take the game on an individual basis you should be knocking Wolves over in their sleep Wolves have been absolutely terrible Wolves will probably be in the top three worst Premier League teams we've ever seen it's not just oh it's a home game against a moderately good mid-table side they're shit they're absolutely terrible and they've got out of jail Premier League teams can win in a Champions League fairly easy we've seen that they lost to Aston Villa in quite dramatic fashion that would have been a sickener for them and they were totally outplayed by Chelsea we're down to 10 men for 60 minutes right in between that they got a rudimentary win at home to a pretty poor Brentford side so you give them credit for that I'm asking you guys whether it's a pattern I don't care about Gilker is respectfully I just don't care about Gilker is So I wonder then to answer your question I wonder for Arsenal to give Arsenal fans a little something here if after that very good start to the season that you've mentioned that was unsustainable I wonder if there has been a little bit of complacency creep into Arsenal.

44:29Maybe that's part of it. And actually, this little period is maybe kind of like, especially that game against Wolves, it's kind of like, you can't say, oh, well, you know, Chelsea, you know, when they're all at it, they were really good and, you know, Rhys James was unbelievable so maybe that's why we didn't get it. As you say, against Wolves at home, they've had to rely on two, one of being a very late one, two own goals from a shite team who have got two Premier League points and we're deep into December now. Yeah. Two Premier League points. That's what Wolves do. They turn up and they lose.

45:02That's it. Yeah, totally. And if you see Wolves coming over the hill, oh, thank goodness they're here. Do you know what I mean? There we are. We cash this voucher in. And so I think that perhaps, and again, we'll see in the next game against Everton, because they're not going to make it easy for Arsenal, what the reaction's going to be. And I wonder if this result and performance, it was so startlingly obvious that this will shake Arsenal out of any kind of malaise, any kind of complacency that may have crept in. Yeah, I mean, look, the concern will be, from an Arsenal fan point of view, have we seen the best football this team can play this season?

45:39Yeah. That would be the absolute worst thought, thinking that. But again, I just think they'll go through this. I think they will be fine, and they'll still be there in very much leading that title race, or in it at least. But I just don't think there's anything to be overly concerned about right now. My feeling is that Arsenal will go down the road of, not intentionally of course, but they'll find themselves in a situation where they'll be chasing again. Sooner rather than later, they're going to be chasing and that's going to suit them because they're going to not be under such pressure. But I don't think, it doesn't seem to suit them in their mentality based on the last four games or whatever we've seen in the league to be out there ahead of it.

46:20Certainly in the way people were talking about them. Again, you can't even get a shot away against this lot, let alone score a goal. they have to realise that though they have to realise where they are though but you know what it's like that squad this Arsenal squad is good enough to win this Premier League title this season there's absolutely no doubt about that of course it's about the mentality and how do you do that and I think that's intriguing because with Manchester City Pep knows how to win a title obviously and a number of those players have gotten over the line the only thing I would say is that with Manchester City it's all about their attacking power I mean Palace should have scored what one, two couple of goals at least against them it's all about one attacker for them there's not really anything else there at the City team that is like it really stands out to me I think Foden does now Foden does that's fair he's chipping in but they need to start sending them dirty lasagnas is what you're saying I think Arsenal's Arsenal's game on Saturday against Everton away is the biggest game of their season so far given what we've seen in the last few weeks yeah the reaction to this if they go there and knock over Everton which Newcastle did but generally speaking it's hard to do there then I think that's a big plus point for them and they can perhaps use that as a platform and move on.

47:26If they lose, it's bad news. If they are to win that, it is going to be a very tight game. Absolutely. And this is the only reason. I know you just said you don't care about Gioccares and it doesn't matter. This is the sort of... No, this didn't matter. I just said it's a boring conversation we've already had. He's not at the level he needs to be. I just think it's really important for their season. That was the big... This was apparently the big difference for them. I know they brought other attacking players in it, but I think it's a massive difference for them. If he is on form, he is going to be a big, big factor in this title race.

47:53But he's not. and that's the thing we're all regrettable nothing more I don't even think it's a form thing I'm fairly convinced watching him that there's a big difference between playing at the thick end of the Premier League as a striker than he was playing in Portugal and this is not me being it's not a jingoistic point you know Portuguese is no good or whatever but the reality is the pace and the defensive quality and the aggression and the physicality of Premier League defenders is miles different than 80 % of the teams you play in Portugal it's the time of thought that he doesn't have He looked so slow.

48:25It was a big thing before he signed from the people who heavily look at data around football and the big factor was that he takes too long to get his shots off and he's going to cause a lot of blocked shots and so far that's been proven right I think. All eyes on Everton on the weekend. Let's move on then to Nottingham Forest 3 Spurs 0 something Arsenal fans can enjoy. Yeah we should probably apologise to Spurs fans because when they win we don't seem to talk about them very much. But the story is when they lose they look so bad it's unbelievable you can't not mention it it does it makes you feel nostalgic for last season doesn't it yeah kind of actually yeah kind of I mean this this of course is is it the last thing you want you've just had a you know a game in Europe you come back you may be a little bit tired or whatever and oh look there's Sean Dyche licking his lips rubbing his hands together going let's make it nice and physical for them lads and straight away it was just like bang yeah Spurs are not going to win today are they they can't be tired Spurs can't be tired they don't do enough on the pitch to warrant being tired in the next game they are fucking dull as dishwater they are absolutely shocking Frank I just can't believe he's still got a job do you think it's that bad?

49:36they're fucking terrible they're absolutely awful they are mind-numbing to watch yeah can you help that Luke? I think I think he's spot on I think the three worst performances I can think of with respect to Wolves fans yeah they've suffered enough to one side we've lost to one side the only group of fans in the Ramble universe that are actually pleased without talking about it you're wearing Wolves colours today to try and give him a you know this is kind of gold I don't think it's old gold though is it I think it's slightly different but I'm the closest on behalf of Wolves fans they appreciate what you're doing the three worst performances from a team in the Premier League I've seen this season have all been from Spurs first half against Fulham I wasn't even counting that one I wasn't even counting that to be fair I mean no I wasn't counting that it's Fulham, Chelsea and then this one for us and I think the issue not even the Arsenal one the issue I didn't actually see the Arsenal game in the flesh I had to watch it back so that was that was basically you've got you've got choices is what you're saying I think if you looked at the XG for Premier League teams and individual games this season the worst of them I think probably the top three will all be Spurs because it's all down to Frank he doesn't like he wants to work the ball into the box every single time he hates long shots he's on record for saying that he doesn't like taking long shots because they're low value opportunities well it's working for Villa isn't it bloody hell there you go it doesn't work for it but you know what the funny thing is they're conceding long shots because he's happy to because he values long distance shots so low he's happy to concede them but then David he would say then over time that will revert to the mean yeah of course he would but it'll be down the dole office Sangaro was like this is how you're doing what a goal that was by the way because the first goal obviously he does really well and obviously lays it on two assists and a goal I think yeah it was a great afternoon for him lays it on for Callum Hudson-Odoi.

51:22If he hadn't taken a slightly heavier touch, he may well have taken it himself. But anyway... And he's off to AFCON with Côte d 'Ivoire, so it'd be a miss. Oh, I like you went Côte d 'Ivoire. Yeah, give him a bit of respect. When AFCON comes around... I don't think I'm disrespectful if I call him Ivory Coast. No, you have to say Côte d 'Ivoire. Côte d 'Ivoire. It's like Czechia and Turkey. Yeah, me and... Don't forget, me and David both speak fluent French, so it's like slightly different. Okay. Luke's on the continent next weekend.

51:49I think with the Frank thing the expansion on the point I just wanted to make was that it does look to me that also the players are starting to make him look a little bit silly because I do think he can be blamed for what you've talked about especially when they haven't really got a good ball carrier I mean it seems to be that without Madison and with Xavi Simmonds not up to speed they don't really have a ball carrier but you've made this point and I get that but there's so much more going on that's piss poor there. But I think what also looks so bad, like really bad, like embarrassingly bad to the point where it feels like he's just not being respected as a coach at the moment is when he says, we want to be on the front foot today.

52:27This is our plan. We're going to do this. And they register performance so poor against a team who haven't been great. One shot on target. And I mean, Frank himself said after the game, if no one gets the time, no one can turn this around. This is not a quick fix. He's well aware that the knives are out for him in a lot of places. I mean, you've called them, well, you've called Manchester United the unmanageable club and I think Ruben Amarin would agree with you. Ruben Amarin told me to say that. I'm on this payroll. Yeah, okay, right, fine. And you said Spurs were fast approaching that because with Frank, David, a number of Spurs fans were saying, look, it's not working under Frank.

53:03It's not going to get any better. His CV would suggest not.

53:09Words fail me. I get the time aspect. I really, I get what he's saying. absolutely but when it is so bad I think you just have to cut your losses and say look he's not the right man he's not the right man this hasn't worked out sorry it was a huge step up for Frank for going for Brentford where you're giving the keys to the kingdom everyone trusts you and look he did a really good job with the players he knew those players Frank grew with the club as they grew obviously very very different surroundings to what he finds at Tottenham Hotspur who lest we forget are by the hook or by crook a Champions League club and so he walks into that situation I know what you're smirk they're in the Champions League they are quite literally Frank also I think people can be it's already cut in but it's important I think to give context I think the fact that he's clearly not up to it and the fact that he earned the right to have the job can both be true you're absolutely right because when he went there I thought this is Potter and going to Chelsea all over again isn't it or yeah or Nuno going to Spurs well indeed yeah and I said at the start of the season you know I thought this was a really good appointment I like the fact We talk about Frank's pragmatism.

54:13I think that's what Spurs need to certainly get them back in the right direction. And I talked it up, and early on, particularly, you go all the way back to that Super Cup against PSG. And in some of the games, earlier games in the Premier League, I'm thinking, they look more robust. You can see what Frank's doing here. That has quickly dissipated. I know they were in a bit of a false position for a while, but they were picking up results here and there. And you think, well, okay. The guy, I did agree that he has to be given time. And I think sacking him right now, I don't think that would be this is the thing with Spurs I just don't know I don't know if that's the right thing to do or not I think it might be a touch harsh but as you say David a lot of people are going it's not going to get any better it's not going to improve so you're damned if you do you're damned if you don't but the thing that we all know right now is that Spurs now are on for a not too dissimilar season to what they had last season and that is a signal they're at home to Liverpool next and if Liverpool have turned I don't think they necessarily have Liverpool but they're obviously very capable they've got a lot of good players and Spurs at home have been diabolical.

55:12And it's going to get very toxic for him. I mean, for example, if Spurs make a mistake, I mean, because the quality, the absolute, I mean, we haven't even talked about the comedy value of a couple of the goals against Forest, which they also did against Fulham, which they also did against Chelsea. If they do that, even something roughly similar to what Brighton did early on against Liverpool, which wasn't a massive mistake, but it was a bit of lack of awareness at the start of a game and Liverpool score in a minute at Spurs, it will be beyond toxic there. The fans, as I've already said over and over again are ready to go and he will find it very, very uncomfortable and he's going to have to have very broad shoulders to navigate this storm if he's even capable of it.

55:49Do you think that Asakon is imminent here? I know it's imminent but I think it's probably inevitable at some point but again it depends on who else is available. Because if you look at the away fans so going on Carragher's point about if you lose the away fans he was talking about Liverpool but I think that's generally the case the worst I've seen in recent times was Aston Villa and Steven Gerrard at Craven Cottage the pelters they were giving him you thought he'll be lucky if he's the away fans is a big barometer exactly and the Spurs away fans don't seem to be having Thomas yeah because they've realised they've had enough like I say again it goes back to his comment about time I mean it's probably a discussion for another time because we're running a bit short but like the ownership structure and how it depends how many allies he's got and obviously Levy's no longer there things have changed quite a bit it kind of depends on that and it's quite difficult to predict given that now it's different people making decisions but beyond that there's nothing to credit him on the pitch at all I think that's a great point we don't know how their hiring and firing policy is how quickly they're willing to pull the trigger but it was a good win for Forrest though who needed that because Leeds are showing a bit now West Ham under Nuno you'd think I know the points haven't been great but at some point you think he might try and at least sort out the defence somewhat I mean to be fair though everyone says that yeah I know they've been shit well they have yeah Sean Dyche was very happy though and he said after the match skill without will is worth nothing as Muhammad Ali once said can I take issue can I take issue with that go on I know I'm the correspondent who hates Sean Dyche the most and I'm happy to wear that kind of hat I don't think Muhammad Ali actually said that I don't think that's a Muhammad Ali quote I think what's happening these days is people particularly like people like Sean Dyche say things they think sounds profound and just credit them to some famous person they like I'd be very surprised if Muhammad Ali ever said that I'd love to know I'd love the listeners to get in touch do some research I don't think you can find Muhammad Ali saying that anywhere so fuck off Daesh well skill find a maid of quotes just say skill without will is worth nothing you'll find a Churchill one there's a lot of Churchill ones like that as Marcus Aurelius once said yeah exactly I want to give it more gravitas so I'll pretend Muhammad Ali said it I think we're all pretty old-favorable of Muhammad Ali's actual quotes by now I think we are I think we absolutely are it's probably turned out you did say it no well who knows egg on my face won't they well Forest Spurs we did bill it as the Ange Postigogl derby before the game did we we tried to you know and God loves a try but of course we may be fucking back at Spurs this time next week give us a good time back yeah we'll take a Europa Conference League with this time but of course Ange's former side Celtic lost the Scottish League Cup final on the weekend come on the baddies what a great story what a great story up the Mirren yeah hey St Mirren I mean it is remarkable particularly for producer Rory's Hearts obviously very very keen on Hearts doing the business this year but it is amazing that Celtic have got another manager in and he's lost all three of his opening games Martin O 'Neill get yourself back up there I've seen memes of Nancy with Russell Martin's hair that's when you know it's fucking bad I saw a meme with a big emergency break glass for Fire Axe but it was just Martin O 'Neill stuffed in it

59:05oh my goodness yeah I was worried that Hearts had had their run because obviously O 'Neill came in and steadied the ship which I wasn't too sure was the best idea but you know you've got to say O 'Neill you know showed everybody that it's fairly straightforward let him have the job just let him have it maybe he doesn't want it he was lovely just a joy just enthusiastic lovely man he walked in basically said I haven't managed for ages I don't know any of the players but I'll give it a go and they were fine yeah yeah you basically went you're Celtic the rest of the teams yeah they're not as good as you go out there and just do the business sometimes that works well indeed it does you don't have to you don't have to give them loads of data did you see Martin O 'Neill mucking around with a tactics board on the bench no you didn't I don't think I did and I don't think we ever will but with Wilfried Nancy in charge of Celtic I tell you what the title race is back on for us it is it's great and I love the fact that St Mirren won it I do as well because they haven't won a cup for what is it 13 years that's what's funny because the I think it might have been the owner or one of the people at St Mirren said this is a once in a lifetime for us you won it 13 years ago but you know the previous win to that was in the 80s for the Scottish Cup how long are you guys living for they may have a lot of young fans yeah they've just haven't seen I was going to say they're not a serial winning side do you know why because they're not one of the old fam true the scenes when the third winning because obviously Celtic were chasing the game the scenes when the third winning were amazing come on hey your buddies and mine St Mirren get a load of that nice to see a team in black and white turn up for an occasion on the weekend David yeah yeah chances are fine there we are everybody thank you very much for listening to the football ramble part of the ACAR's greater network we're back tomorrow with the mailbag where we're talking about Unai Emery and lots of other good footballing things so we will see you tomorrow Luke Moore pleasure as always thank you very much last one David thank you my man up the Mackams and thank you Dan Ballard

1:01:00I just looked it up and Muhammad Ali says, champions aren't made in gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them, a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have the skill and the will, but the will must be stronger than the skill. I prefer Sean Dyche's interpretation of it. I mean, am I giving him that? Maybe we'll call it a draw. Muhammad Ali never went to Hooters in Nottingham, mate. The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.