Mailbag: Are football's financial rules fair?

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3:00Jim Campbell: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble Mailbag. England Premier League spending rules and Man City are the orders of the day. It's Thursday, 8th of October. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm Jim Campbell.

3:24Jim Campbell: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble Mailbag. This is the show that you control. Message us on xbluesky or Instagram at footballramble. Comment on YouTube or email us, show at footballramble.com. And, of course, friends of the Ramble get priority. Patreon.com forward slash footballramble or click the join button on YouTube to become a friend of the Ramble. Now, I have two of my real friends with me. Luke Moore and Jim Campbell. Disagree. More a colleague. Yeah. Ah, I expected that from Luke, but Jim, that genuinely is disappointing. I've got to him, Marcus. I've got to him. Indeed you have.

4:04Don't let Marcus call you a friend. but I

4:06Jim Campbell: well let's let's start with with a question from someone who is our friend Tiege on Discord good old Tiege he said if we follow the line of discussion around Thomas Tuchel particularly Luke's do you think England would have a better chance of success at the Euros with a different manager and if so who is a realistic alternative or is the answer just always going to be Eddie Howe don't forget Tindall Eddie's out of work he's available so and Tindall was going to be doing his gardening for him at the moment or something like that but it's top off yeah oh yeah obviously yeah yeah yeah managing to get a tan absolutely yeah oh yeah of course absolutely what do you think I mean I'm not particularly interested I'm not particularly interested in the Eddie Howe aspect of it but in terms of the because you know whatever but I think you know it's really tough to say my I've got a few criticisms of Thomas too that people will be familiar with but I'll just re-up them very quickly so we've got a bit of context he didn't do what he said he was going to do and he was very brazen in saying what he wanted to do and he didn't achieve it.

5:07He shouldn't have got the new contract before the World Cup. I thought that was a stupid move and I think he should have resigned after the World Cup. None of those things have happened. So that's fine. You know, we all move on with our lives. But the main issue for me would be that although England have had overall a very successful international break and they've had some eye-catching performances both individually and collectively and there's been some great goals scored and good scorelines, I don't really know what type of team England are. And I'd like to know that and I think really when you've had a manager in for a little while, you would want to see that.

5:39Now, we knew what Southgate wanted to do, whether we liked it or not. A lot of people didn't like it, of course, particularly towards the end. It was a very kind of handbrake on, safety first. We're not going to concede much because, and if you think about it, whatever you think of that, that was a coherent strategy because it was like, generally speaking, when it really counts, which is what I'm being judged on, it's the team that concede the fewest goals that tend to do the best in tournaments. look at Spain in the World Cup just gone can see a one goal can see there's something like 8 or 10 shots a whole tournament or something

6:08Jim Campbell: so you get why that was happening with Tuchel I don't know what he wants to do is there a chance a new manager come in impose a style on ahead of the Euros then England play to that style probably not is it going to happen anyway no does style matter that much I get the impression I think it matters more than some other people do I think a lot of people have responded after I said that stuff about Tuchel and been like, well, does it matter? I mean, what it comes down to is four to six weeks of winning games and being there when it counts. To me, the short answer after a very long build-up is, no, I don't think they have a better chance of success at the Euros with a different manager based on where we are now, no.

6:49But I don't particularly know how Tuchel wants to play anyway.

6:52Jim Campbell: Yeah, I think the consistency of having someone in post who has a bit of experience of a major tournament with England now, even if it's one that's ended in disappointment, which if played the right way could be useful fuel to go better next time. Just makes more sense than sort of chopping and changing. I don't think there's a gettable alternative out there anyway. You're talking about probably Pep Guardiola. They could get Howe. They could get Howe. Yeah, but Howe's not an upgrade. We don't want Pep now. Howe's not an upgrade on Thomas Tuchel. Pep's tainted. Yeah, but he could taint his way to a trophy for us, couldn't he?

7:25Jim Campbell: We don't want tainted love, Jim. He should have to have his head painted sky blue permanently forever.

7:34Jim Campbell: Yeah, fair enough. You know the use of tar and feather people. They do that with his head, with a tattoo, a sky blue tattoo all over his head. I quite enjoyed that because Jim went to argue that point and thought, what am I doing? I'm just wasting everyone's time. Star Trek vibes. Yeah. I think what is very interesting is actually I think if you look at the way England have played in the Nations League, that you can say they have a style. It's not particularly complicated. It's possession based. that's quite front-footed. But in Spain, they were all reactive. Sure, but that's the difference with Spain, isn't it?

8:04Jim Campbell: You're coming up against another team who are ideally a possession-based team and who are better at it than you. So then naturally it becomes a little bit more kind of end-to-end and give and take. But what I will say is I don't think they've necessarily played like that in the World Cup. And this is a problem that we sometimes have, right? You get to the tournament and you do sort of, and again, it is in those key moments, you revert to the sort of safety-first, very conservative moment. players are exhausted yeah maybe maybe yeah I again to answer the question I don't think that sacking Tuchel and getting someone else would potentially yield better results obviously you don't know until you do it but I think that it is still a happy camp under Tuchel you love the happy camp chat well because I think that's important for the players and I think that if you get the unicorn out having spoken to to a couple of professional sportsmen over the years, they actually say that unless it's utter crap, sometimes when you do change a manager, they'll be like, we've got to meet someone new, we've got to get their methods.

9:07Jim Campbell: The players, they know Tuchel and the coaching staff. They like Anthony Barry as well, as do we. So I don't think that there is a sort of a realistic alternative. The answer is just going to be Eddie Howe for now. And I think in the future, I'm sure Howe and Tindall, unless they don't fancy it or, I don't know, Lee Carsley does fancy it after Tuchel and he's brilliant. I think they probably will get their chance in the future because England don't produce very good managers but I think... I don't think we can roll the Lee Carsley dice again. You don't think they'd make a play for Pep Guardiola even in the wake of all this stuff?

9:39Jim Campbell: No, I don't. You don't? No, I don't think they would. I mean, there's been talk about it before as if it's been discussed in, you know... Yeah, before. Yeah, I'm not sure that it will make a difference, you know. I don't know. It's not what you're still in the Arsenal podcast. I can rage about it a little bit. That's very different. Well, Jim, I think that leads us neatly into the next question. Sure, from Ian via email. Shout out to Ian for still using email. You'd like to see it. We'd like to see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He says, now that we've come to the end of the great autumn international break of 2026, we hardly knew you.

10:09Jim Campbell: Better to have loved and lost. Yeah. Do you like the extended break? Yes. Do you guys think we'll need some Man City-sized news every year just to help us get through it? I mean, that did spice it up a bit. Yeah. That's sensational. We can't really assess this. I was so excited. It was. This one of the biggest... Jim said to me, you messaged me saying, mate it's one of those days you just surrender to your phone yeah don't hate yourself hold your phone all the time yeah it's a day dive in it's for you as well every two minutes to something new dive in mostly it's memes taking the piss out of them but still yeah I think this story is one of the biggest stories that has happened since we've been doing the show right so it's hard to assess the break without it because it was such a dominant thing but I think in terms of the Premier League sort of being broken up for three weeks my team lost on the on the last match and actually that feels like ages ago now which is a good thing so it's three weekends two weeks before you say that three weekends so from an England point of view I think it was actually really good for them because I think the performance against Croatia which is obviously the outstanding one comes because that team has a little bit of rhythm so I think it's a beneficial thing for the national teams to have a camp that is this long together Tuchel seemed to say something else though Jim interestingly so he said that he would prefer maybe that other game or something in another international break.

11:24Jim Campbell: So rather than... Less work in it. Less work. Because he felt like this was, you know, maybe a little bit too big and then you'd rather elsewhere, if you don't mean, to have that continuity. He's thinking, for my six million quid a year, I really want to be working a week at a time. Thank you very much. Yeah. So, I mean, maybe from some coaches' point of view, Jim, they may well agree with you. You know, Northern Ireland, you know, O 'Neill spoke about, you know, players being a bit exhausted and Bellamy did as well. Because these games, you know, they do come thick and far. I get the impression, I don't disagree with what Jim said, but I get the impression that the players, they get into a rhythm, they play three, four, maybe five, is it five Premier League games, I think, on this occasion?

12:05That kind of number anyway. And then you get used to it, you're in that rhythm. Because professional football for those guys, it's all about rhythms, really. They're quite dictated to their schedule and the travel and all the rest of it. Then they break it up. and if you're not one of those players who goes to international duty you're sitting around probably having to train on your own or with a couple of other lads but you can't really do it properly but the issue is I find it really annoying at the start and I kind of get into it because I like watching England but the issue is of course if international football is going to exist you've got to find the time to play these games at some point and I wonder whether actually does this one mean we'll get one fewer international break?

12:45Jim Campbell: Yeah, it's September and October have been fused together forever okay I hate saying this because it's a really cop out thing to say as a broadcaster but I just think it is what it is you can't it has to happen at some point however you slice it the games have to happen so I mean yeah I think with Tuchel rather than four games and then two games we want to just have three and three you know for fans of symmetry I'm sure they'd be fans of the rule of three but Jim you are right to say that like the Man City news has been so seismic that it's actually been a completely different feel we've had to bump England games down our running orders don't think we've ever done that before because of this so we'd never try a little peek behind the curtain we would never try and prioritise a story ahead of a football match because it's a football show unless it's so massive you can't ignore it right and that's what's happened a few times this last couple weeks well you know so Ian's asked you know do you think you know essentially did the Man City Size News help us get through it I would flip that and say the great autumn international break of 2026 helped us get through the Man City news.

13:49Jim Campbell: Because we had an extended time in between all these international fixtures to actually really examine this and find out what's going on. I had a wicked whisper, by the way. Do you want to hear it? It could be nonsense. It could be nonsense. Don't hold it. Is it coming out of Luxembourg? Coming out of summer in Europe. I couldn't possibly confirm or deny that, Jim. The person involved was using a VPN, I don't know what to say. So it's definitely Pete. No, I heard a rumour, literally this morning, that the sanctions were going to be announced on Friday. That's in tomorrow. So the sanctions are coming tomorrow?

14:22That's what I heard. You're joking.

14:24Jim Campbell: That is a wicked whisper. Give the initials of this person. No, but it's the same person who told me that the verdict was coming. And it was. And it did. And it happened. Now, that same person who I'm not going to name because it wouldn't be fair did also say two more times before that that it was coming and it didn't. But the third time luckily they got it right. I didn't say which Friday. No, tomorrow. I'll tell you, tomorrow. All right. Which, if you think about it, does make logical sense, given they get it out before Man City play again. That, to me, makes sense. It does. Now, that doesn't mean Man City aren't going to appeal it and the whole thing's going to be ended.

14:56I'm not saying that.

14:57Jim Campbell: So respect the process and stop saying that they're guilty because they're not guilty until the appeal is heard, even though they are guilty until the appeal's heard. Irrefutable evidence. Yeah. They've got irrefutable... Not enough has been made of the fact... Do you know what the word irrefutable actually means in, like, dictionary definition? Opposite to futable. impossible to disprove. There we are. So they've got evidence that is not only just something that strengthens their position. They are claiming they've got evidence which is, quote, impossible to disprove. Wasn't that... I thought the irrefutable evidence was that the money came from the government rather than the ownership.

15:35So what?

15:36Jim Campbell: Yeah, well, no, I'm not... What in the email chain that Etihad was sending? Marcus, he's shown his true person. No, I'm... It sounds to me like you're suggesting that they've not played the hand of the irrefutable evidence yet. Or I thought they had. But whichever way you look at it, even if it's what you're saying... Seems refutable. It's not evident. Sure. Because it's been dismissed as something that doesn't make any difference. Yeah. And if they haven't played it yet, it's something that's so seismic that it's impossible to disprove and therefore should totally exonerate them. So it's got to be one of those two things.

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19:33Jim Campbell: touch on discord might be relaxed to the Man City situation very possible Cashman says while I believe Man City should be punished philosophically this led me down the winding road of whether UEFA and Premier League rules are actually justified and sound all of the PSR rules seem to virtually lock in a guaranteed set of clubs at the top end while adding barriers of entry to other clubs seeking high-end success why do FFP and PSR rules get a pass by most of the journalism community when they essentially lock out the majority of clubs from top flight success this seems to be the antithesis of the meritocracy football claims to represent.

20:07Jim Campbell: Now we have some background detail on that that's going to be read by Marcus before we finally come up with a solution to all of this for good. I didn't get into football for this. Yeah, I know what you mean. I do find it funny that Cashman Dadman is saying, hey, let people like me into football and let us run wild. But of course, it's important to note that FFP and PSR have been replaced by squad cost ratio, SCR, and sustainability and systemic resilience, SSR, as of this season. So FFP and PSR, they've gone. So we've got some new... People still use them as a kind of catch-all term. But I think we understand, to be fair, obviously what's the thing.

20:47Jim Campbell: PSR was a Premier League system, FFP was UEFA's. Now the old Premier League PSR system used to mean that clubs could only lose a maximum of£105 million over a three-year period. The new squad cost ratio, SCR system, focuses specifically on on-pitch spending. So stadium construction, things like that aren't included. I think it's important to note that. From 2026-27, total squad costs, which is the player and manager wages, transfer fees and agents fees, must stay within 85 % of the revenue. Clubs in European competition have to meet UEFA's stricter 70 % limit instead. And one key difference is that PSR, the old one, was a retrospective look back at the previous three-year financial accounts, whereas squad cost ratio, SCR, looks forward and is evaluated multiple times a year in March, June, and October based on current budgets.

21:46Jim Campbell: And SSR, which is the other one, sustainability and systemic resilience is the second part of the new rules and it works alongside SCR. So if SCR limits how much a club spends on its squad, SSR checks whether the club is financially healthy overall and able to survive over the long term. We've been the football ramble. Thanks for listening to that. Cleared everything up. But you're right, Luke. We didn't get into football for going over all this. When we were younger, I can't emphasise this enough, as a football fan I would say probably even just before we started the Ramble you wouldn't really know that much about anything off the pitch most fans wouldn't I would I would say when I first started watching football most fans I don't think would be able to name the chairman of any other club other than the one they supported or unless they're like a Ken Bates figure or Jack Warner but his name is often mentioned they transcended the kind of thing so that's just it's just interesting how much people are into this now.

22:49But anyway.

22:50Jim Campbell: But that is also a huge thing about, you know, I think there's two approaches to this. Right. I think one's really easy to answer. And the other one is kind of a little bit more philosophical, I would say. And it's a really good question from Cashman. So it's great to have. The first one I'll just get out of the way easy, which is quick is, you know, you know, are the Premier League rules justified and sound? Well, the short answer is all the clubs, including Man City signed up to them so if you don't sign up to them you know fine but you did and so you have to operate within those rules now you can have a conversation about whether you think they're fair and you can argue your position and we know how the Premier League kind of votes on things and the UEFA's slightly different but everyone gets a say in this and they signed up to them but you can still regret that though I mean some fans can still not all of them do do they some of them well there has to be a 14 club majority it's pretty comprehensive 14 clubs have to vote a rule to come through to go through that happened so you can argue to toss all you fucking like you signed up to it you play by the rules or you don't if you don't you get punished that's like full stop end of sentence there is an idea isn't there that these rules are imposed on the clubs but they do vote for them yeah that's what the Premier League signed up that's how it that's how it started well we should say by the way that when PSR was introduced it's understood that Fulham West Bromwich Albion Manchester City Aston Villa Swansea City and Southampton all voted against it.

24:18Jim Campbell: That was in the summer of 2012. Fine, but fine. Just in case there's a detail that people... Whatever, that's fine. But the rules went through. That's context. If the three of us here... Let's give a people a little behind the curtain, right? Who here likes Luke? We know the answer to that. Does it stop me? No, it doesn't. Which way would you vote? That's the interesting question. I carry on. Yeah, we know that. If the three of us here have a vote on something and there's a majority and the person who didn't vote for it says well I don't vote for it it's a majority that is the reality people have signed up to it the rule was passed you can go against it if you like but the rule was passed therefore you are duty bound to play by those rules and if you haven't done so you deserve to be punished that's it that should be something that everyone gets a ball with the second point is a much more interesting point the second point is you know what benefit do these rules have for whom right so So clearly I can see, I have a broad amount of sympathy for the idea that if you are already really fucking wealthy, generating a huge amount of commercial revenue because you're already a really successful club and you're effectively pulling the drawbridge up saying you, you and you, you can't invest.

25:28You have to do it in a limited way or a totally sustainable way. And we've got way more resources than you. So we're always, that to me, principally feels like a bad thing. But the reason I come down the side of being in favor of it for the most part it's because look at the alternative.

25:44Jim Campbell: Yeah, this is the problem. Yeah, this is the massive problem, isn't it? So I think I can totally understand why clubs like Villa and Newcastle who are upwardly mobile get so frustrated when they hit this ceiling because that ceiling is tangible and it is real and it is now basically kind of codified which must be so infuriating and just on a sort of side point before that one of the major problems and Aston Villa have fallen afoul of this is that the UEFA rules and the Premier League rules are different. so if you get into the Champions League or into the Europa League which has a much more outsized effect on it suddenly you can't actually spend some of the money that you've made and in the Champions League you can swallow that more because the money is so much more but particularly if you get into the situation they were in where they got a season in the Champions League but were then in the Europa League the rules are all over the shop they've got restrictions everywhere they're hamstrung by so many different things that is so unhelpful for the teams who have worked really hard to get themselves into that position, done everything right, done it cleverly off the pitch, done it well on the pitch, and then you get to this kind of catch-22 situation.

26:51Jim Campbell: That seems inherently unfair to me. And I think the Premier League is acting in a sort of self-interested way here where they don't want to put too many spending restrictions on their clubs because they're looking at the longer term and thinking about how, you know, if you start putting those restrictions in there, gradually other leagues might catch up a little bit and the premier league is obviously self-interested it wants to remain the sort of most high profile league in the world um and that takes maintenance you know it doesn't it's not a given is it and over the longer term they they are probably looking at protecting that but i think what the question is ultimately comes down to what is the middle ground between financial restrictions and unchecked spending because if you get rid of any of these restrictions, you just get a situation where the two clubs who are owned by states can just blow everyone else out of the water and it becomes uncompetitive in a different way.

27:42Jim Campbell: And I don't know what the solution to that is. I think that possibly the best and perhaps fairest system that's been proposed so far was anchoring. But that was really unpopular amongst the clubs. Most of them voted against that. Can you remind us what that is? So anchoring essentially would have anchored the maximum spending cap of any club to a multiple of what the lowest earning club receive in TV revenue. So last season that was Wolves. They made$117.7 million last season. So depending on the multiple, that would still perhaps have been quite a lot of money. But the PFA threatened legal action suggested it's sort of a de facto wage cap.

28:26Jim Campbell: And 12 clubs voted against it and one abstained. So there wasn't an appetite for that from within the Premier League. And the clubs at the top, presumably, you know, they are happy to keep the status quo. But I would, sorry, Luke, I would argue actually, kind of as a fan of one of those clubs who benefits from this stuff, we bring in an enormous amount of money. So we'll always be okay. There's no way you slice these. There's no solution where the richest clubs still aren't better off. So I do think there's a fear of clubs in the top six that want that ladder pulled up. But I don't think it would necessarily play out that way.

29:01Jim Campbell: and I don't think that people should shy away from things being more balanced and being fairer but that's having said that I don't know what that balance is or how you provide it we should remind everybody you are a part of the red cartel the red cabal yeah I would have I would it is the cartel isn't it it's the cartel yeah I figure we're not a good cartel but yeah I just I'd rather be in the Super League to be honest I mean the Premier League is the de facto Super League let's be honest is the issue here not that we're what's happening is like everyone is treating the symptom rather than the cause by which I mean that like when we talked about Man City and how they've how they've transgressed we talked about how the idea that the Premier need to take some of the blame for this because they've kind of opened the door laid the red carpet out let nation states let fucking unscrupulous people run football clubs and so rather than actually and perhaps you can't do that now because it's just gone too far but rather than the principle of stopping that happening, saying no, no, no, this is how clubs are now owned in this country and you've got to satisfy a certain amount of criteria.

30:12You can't really do that. So ultimately you're not heading off at the source. You're always just treating the problems that come along as a result of it which is obviously unhelpful and it's not a perfect solution. But the issue as well though with this SCR and SSR it has to be in place because what happens far too often is owners run out of money or lose interest, buck off, are unscrupulous, are irresponsible and clubs, not often in the top flight of course, but clubs just go to the wall. So it's a safety measure. You have to do something.

30:51Jim Campbell: Well, SSR sort of addresses that, doesn't it? We'll wait and see, won't we, the efficacy of it over time. It's new, right? No, I do. Yeah, I agree with you there. Look, I think that you know you get into the whole sort of you get into you know free market economy you know people say just let them run wild and free and spend what they want and all that but then you get clubs trying to keep up with that and then you get situations like what happened at Leeds and Portsmouth we've not had that for a long time you know and let's you know okay we're talking really in a Premier League context here lest we forget north of the border the great almighty Glasgow Rangers that club ceased to exist the Rangers playing now I know they try and say oh well it's not and I'll probably get some angry comments about this it's technically a different club yet they play in the same kit same stadium same chance same all the rest of it it is you know if you're being really really scrupulous about well they started again from scratch it's a different club which again is insane you talk about locking things in and all that, that happened there but okay, different leagues, so I'll move on from that point but you know, I agree with you Luke I come down on the side of it, nothing is perfect if you're trying to get 20 clubs and it's more than 20 clubs because of relegation and promotion to all agree on something and say right, we need to manage this we need to somehow govern this you're always going to every club cannot be happy with that, it's impossible and so I would err on the side of look let's rein it in a little bit I understand this is not quite the point but Premier League clubs don't suffer for not being able to spend a lot of money you compare them to any league in Europe you know the spending loads slightly different issue I appreciate but unfortunately you've always got the huge historical legacy clubs Arsenal Manchester United now some would immediately argue and say but if it wasn't for the spending Man City and Chelsea might not have crashed into there well fine but they got in at the right time before the you know the gate came down essentially is the argument, isn't it?

32:57Jim Campbell: Indeed. So, yeah, I can dance around the houses and regurgitate what you guys have already said, but ultimately, I understand how it can be a bit frustrating because nobody can have the kind of sugar daddy intake as Jack Warner did with Blackburn Rovers. Very different time, very different landscape. I understand it. Can I just chime in and say that, by the way, one thing that gets lost in this, I think, far too often is that there seems to be this undercurrent idea that there weren't always clubs that were much bigger than other clubs. Well, indeed. Winning titles. And that was going to be my other point.

33:28If you look at the 70s and the 80s, yeah, fine. There's a mixture of teams. But it's basically Liverpool. It's basically Everton. It's Arsenal here and there. It's the odd kind of Derby County or Forest. But ultimately, it's not like before the Premier League or before FFP, it was like, oh, no one knows which of these teams are going to go all the way up to the top flight I wouldn't believe. There were loads of teams out there who've never won a major trophy. Totally. There's always been a hierarchical kind of system. Yeah. It just depends how much you think it's skewed by this financial thing.

34:06Jim Campbell: Well, the idea that if these rules weren't in place, you know, West Ham would have had a Premier League title. Fulham would have had a Premier League title. Yeah. But I think there's a lot of groupthink going on, though, isn't there, where people have convinced themselves that that would be true. But let's, you know, the last few winners, you know, how long has it taken Arsenal to win the Premier League title again? And their ones, you know, sort of been locked into that. How long did it take Liverpool to win a Premier League title when they did it in 2019-20? And then it's taken them a few years to win another one.

34:35Jim Campbell: Manchester United haven't won it since the days of Sir Alex Ferguson. Who's been gobbling up all the other titles? Chelsea and Leicester City aside. Manchester City, the team who have not been playing by the rules. And that's the key differentiator here. The rules that they signed up to, however they voted, they knew what they were and they've cheated they've cheated as we sit here right now they're guilty of these charges and they've cheated to get an advantage you can't get away from that so one half of Cashman's question it's just an open and shut thing sign up to the rules play by the rules it's as simple as that Gentlemen I've got a question from John on Insta Can we anoint Brother Brendi as a great of the game after his league title in 2014.

35:25Jim Campbell: Maybe on Friday. Maybe on Friday I'll get one. Yeah. But you know, imagine that they all get the Premier League trophy delivered to them. It is. I'd like to see Mr. Richard Masters standing on like some high point in a town square somewhere. No, Oprah episode. You get a trophy. Yeah, there you go. Fine, there you are. That's it. Obviously, we like to have a little joke about brother Brendan because of the type of character he is. But I wonder how he's feeling. You know? I wonder how he's feeling. He got, I came really close in 2014. I mean, Jurgen Klopp I hope Jurgen Klopp No but let me tell you what's different because Jurgen Klopp's career has still been fucking amazing sure okay right brother that is a sliding doors moment for Brendan Rodgers if he's a Premier League title winner his career is totally different and he's had that taken from him now you can never really get too much into the weeds of that because it is sliding doors it's chaos theory as you guys say so I get that but I think he's well within his rights to feel fucking pretty pissed off yeah of course given how close they came was it two points two points it was incredibly close somewhere like that and they've come up short and there's a load of memes about it and there's a load of shit that Gerrard copped as well he copped a lot of flack around it as a Neely man who by the way never won a Premier League title you know so it means something this it does it really does and I think you know we can joke about it but I think it's a serious point underneath it all which is a Premier League great in Steven Gerrard has never had a Premier League title right brother Brindy who you know as we affectionately name him you know what could his career have been like if he had been a Premier League title winner.

36:51He certainly would have made a lot more money, I'll tell you that. This is it. It matters.

36:54Jim Campbell: He's been working at South. We've made this point a few times. You've got even more money. I get your point though. But when you see people talking about, you know, you can't take our memories away. And I understand we probably all feel the same way in City's shoes. It's just that, you know, other people would have had other memories that they didn't get to live. Possibly. Yeah. Possibly. So Coco has been in touch on YouTube. Coco says, give Marcus the worst ultimatum of his life. England win the Nations League yet Fulham go down which does he choose? I'll tell you what not so much either or phrasing there isn't it do you take it or not?

37:29Jim Campbell: Coco knows me well because that is right in the spot isn't it? I'm really surprised by that I thought you'd be England 10 times out of 10 there Nations League? Yeah Marcus if it was the Euros if it was the Euros you've got to think of the bigger picture haven't you? and as always Jim I'm going to think of others when I answer a question and as always Some people I think he's thinking of others when he's doing a fucking handmade his own written poem at the end of the show Some people some people you know will be still scathing of the Nations League even if England won it but of course a club like Fulham there's no guarantee that if you go down you come straight back up we have seen that in recent years it's been a bit of a yo-yo club Because those bastards are at fucking SSR that's right Exactly yeah Keeping the little man down Fat cats at City Hall Yes exactly yeah and I think that you know both things would be very very important to sorry I say both things Fulham going down it would be it would be that would be bad for the club clearly for a club as I say who's not guaranteed and also as well for a club who you know built in Marco Silva's image for so long to kind of think oh it was only Silva that did it however a Nations League win you know is that the gateway drug that England need so yeah an excellent question Coco and thank you for submitting that thanks to everybody for listening to the Football Ramble thinking of others when he's refusing to answer it just thinking of others Jim thinking of both sets of others yeah exactly part of the 8 Cars Creator Network absolute pleasure thank you Luke thank you thank you Jim thank you thank you Coco you sod and yeah see you tomorrow we'll see you tomorrow

39:14the Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the ACAST Creator Network.

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