Mailbag: Are Liverpool about to move on from Mo Salah?

0:00Hello everybody, welcome to the Football Ramble Mailbag. The bottom three, Mo Salah and Birmingham City are the orders of the day. It's Tuesday, 2nd of December. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm David Carledge.

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0:52Yeah, fine. I think the steering wheel's fine. I think that's a good placement holder. Until we get to the bottom of this age-old question, what do they call it in planes? When are we going to get the sleigh bells on the music? We're in December now. Oh, come on. Don't go too early. When do you think we should be getting the sleigh bells on? I think now's the time. Yeah, it's December. I'm pretty Andy it as much as the next person, but I think now's the time. I think give it a couple of weeks. Christmas sandwiches here as well? Yeah, definitely. Well, David, no eating in the studio first. No, no, all right.

1:19No, but I will have... Speller was eating last time I came in. Yeah. Crumbs everywhere. Oh, do you know what I hate more than eating in the studio? Snitches. Yeah. See what you've done there. I was finishing off my mouthful as I came into the studio and said oh Pete Donaldson wouldn't be having any of this but anyway yes you are very much in charge we want your questions get in touch on xbluesky or Instagram at footballramble comment on YouTube or email us sure at footballramble.com and of course friends of the Ramble get priority patreon.com forward slash footballramble is where that priority lies sign up also on YouTube become a friend of the Ramble plenty of options there you can't slag off X anymore because you get a lot of right wing abuse and you can't slag off blue sky because you get a lot of left-wing abuse.

2:00There's no fun at all on either of those platforms. But if you come to our Patreon, then you're going to get a load of centrist on that. It's like a warm bath, David. Lovely. Now, I've got a question, Luke. Okay, good. Would you milk me? No, I nearly went Frank Carson there, but I just can't. Go on, go on. I've got a question, Luke. I've got a question, Noel. What is that reference into? against it on Noel's house party. Yeah. Was it Noel's house party? Yeah. He's done it again, everyone. He's done it again. Possibly the most 90s TV show of all time. Without question. No, TFI Friday would be more 90s than that.

2:42Well, it ran from 1991 to 1990. No, yeah, to 1991 to 1999. Did it really? Whoa, basically the whole decade there. Hello, sweet spot. I've missed you. I've got a question, Noel. I could have gone blobby, blobby, blobby, but that wouldn't have served anyone. We are three minutes here and he's doing impressions of Frank Carson on Noel's house party and people have got the temerity to not vote for us in the Football Support Association Awards for best football show. When he's doing that, look at his little face how much he's grafted in every show. I tell you what, this is hard this. Right, okay. This is from Max.

3:17Patron subscriber, Max. Good on him. He knows what side is Brett's bargain. Shout out to you, Max. Absolutely. How much should we read into Liverpool winning without Mo Salah in the team. Of course, they beat West Ham 2-0 at the London Stadium or wherever it's called. How do you think he fits in at the club going forward? David, what do you think? It's always a hard one when you're looking at a club legend, somebody who has done so much, and kind of saying, is it time to pour him out? Yeah. No, I still think this season he can play a significant part in turnaround the season. but his days are very much numbered and I think it's inevitable that Semenyo's going to go to Liverpool do you?

4:01NB's long term replacement some very disappointing Arsenal fans if that's the case they fancy it they can't have everybody they can't have everything there's a clause there's a clause they can have what they want Semenyo's got a clause them and Chelsea have got the dibs on so it's a bum fight any wide player they can't have every little techie wizard mid to lower Premier League table so to me it's the I enjoyed what Greg Evans said in the Athletic following the game you mentioned, which he said, Salah was not solely responsible for the league title last season, nor is he exclusively to blame for the recent demise.

4:36And I guess what, obviously what he's saying there is that, you know, he's a lightning rod and he's going to take all the attention because there's been things, first of all, because he's a legend, as David said, but also because there's been stuff like the contract and is he going to sign one? Is he not? All the rest of it. and to me it feels like they have to find a way to make him just another part of the squad. It's not disrespectful to say that. He doesn't have a divine right to play every single game. There is clearly really obvious evidence of shortcomings in what he provides now and it means defensive work, work off the ball, helping out the fullback for a start, just for a start and they can't afford that in the form they've been in.

5:21So the fact that Slott has been able to drop him and they've been able to win and they've looked more balanced doing so. No, I think there's other reasons why they look more balanced. I thought playing Gomez at right back and playing Subosla further forward helps. Playing Verts in a more natural position helps him and therefore helps the team. There's other reasons for it. But Salah, because of the profile of player, he's always going to be a lightning rod. and if you go back to the actual question, how much should we read into it? I think you can read a fair amount into it, but I don't think we have to live in this modern world of absolutes where he's either in the bomb squad and being sold in January or he plays every single game, starts every single game first name on the team sheet.

5:59I think Slott, if he's got anything about him at all, would have sat down with him and said, this is what we need to do. I wonder whether some of the quotes that Van Dijk said about this isn't good enough, we need to be honest with ourselves, blah, blah, blah, whether that was directed at some of the players maybe who perhaps don't deserve to play every single game automatically and Salah would certainly be one of those. So that's an assorted jumble of my thoughts anyway. It's interesting to think that, like say that was true and it had something about Van Dijk who is one of the senior statesmen of the squad would level that at another very senior member of the team as well as opposed to say a new player coming in like a Kirkus or whoever.

6:38But do you think, imagine the scenario, what do you think happens if Slott pulls Salah to one side and says, you're not playing tomorrow. Because Klopp dropped Salah for the West Ham game, didn't he? So this could also be Slott going to West Ham thinking, do you know what? There's been a load of games we should have won in these last six or seven games or whatever it's been. Fine. But this is one we really should win because the way West Ham's set up against us, they're not going to go at us under Nuno. They're not going to go at us. They're trying to play it nice and conservative and we know what they're going to do.

7:10and he thinks you know what I can leave Salah out here so we get used to the idea that he's not always going to play because he's going to be away for a bit because you'd imagine Egypt might go deep in that tournament but I wonder I just don't know him so I don't know what kind of person he is and how much he's going to kick off and all the rest of it but he seemed like relatively he wasn't doing like a Carlos Tevez refusing to come on or anything no but there was all that talk about the contract and he would give little bits and pieces of information or opinions if you like in the press and he doesn't talk to the press that much, but he was more willing to talk about his contract situation.

7:44I think if he's that good, there's an element of ego there as well. Well, I think so. Even though he seems like, oh, you know, lovely, humble Mo and all this. He will, surely he must. Well, I think not that, these are not my views, but I think there's a lot of people who would have an opposing opinion about lovely, humble Mo. But whether they do or don't, I don't think fans are really generally that bothered. Is Cristiano Ronaldo humble or is he whatever? I don't care, he scores lots of goals. No. Yeah, it's fine. Sorry, I love that one. I said no. But even with Lionel Messi, people would say, oh, you know, he's a bit of a tyrant in the dressing room.

8:16Whatever, he scores goals, he puts in performances. I don't think any Liverpool fan would say at the end of last season. It's just if he was a little bit nicer. Do you know what I mean? But you've had different opinions on Drew Bellingham about that though. It works both ways. No, what, me personally? Well, people have. People have. We've got to have an understanding that there needs to be a fitting in of a player into a squad of players. Sure, but all I was going to say is though that whatever your thoughts on most salaries it's what he does on the pitch but i wonder though if you are talking about and not necessarily we use the word ego everyone has an ego and and and with footballers the type of job it is it's quite obvious you know with with with the confidence and so on and so forth with salah i wonder if this season them signing isaac and verts and and you know one or two others but it's symbolic of this club moving past Well, do you know what I mean?

9:06Because last season, he was the main man. There was no two ways about that. And of course, the tactical set up with Alexander-Arnold worked in his favour at the back. Other teams being a bit crap in the Premier League as well, that helped them. They were, you know, they won the league at a canter, of course. I wonder, though, that now when Slott is saying, okay, the whole team doesn't really, not that it did, but in a sort of an emotional sense of, you know, revolve around Salah. I wonder if, I mean, again, you can put it in harsh terms and say, oh, well, that's his ego talking there. Well, I don't think that necessarily is a sort of a pure criticism, but also as well, he's of a certain age.

9:45It could be, but he's of a certain age where is he thinking, is this team now evolving? Is it moving on kind of, you know, without me? Now, clearly not because of the contract and so on, but you never know what's going on emotionally. My pure guess would be with that contract situation is they wanted him to stay. There was a bit of a negotiation, but he's kind of thinking, I wonder what else is there. Then he stays, having had an unbelievably good season. All of this kind of goes into it. And then the team sort of misfiring, et cetera, et cetera. And the situation at right back, I think these are all reasons why he's not having the season that he did last season.

10:19But I think Slott was right to take him out of the team because you just can't, oh, but it's Mo Salah. You can't do that. I think in terms of a pure footballing point of view, I wonder whether it's a case with Slott, who is a less experienced manager than people give him credit for, which we mentioned a week or two ago, whether he is just tempted over and over again to revert to type and be like, we're struggling, we're not performing the way we should, and I've got this player who, he could just score from nowhere. He could just do something for me. If I need someone to do something, it's probably going to be him.

10:52And therefore, it's not just because of the profile and the reputation he's got. It's like the type of player he is, leaving him out is a big statement. It's not as bad as this, but it almost feels a bit like in energy, you know, Rudd Hullet struggling at Newcastle when he leaves Alan Shearer out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's lots of reasons why that's different, but you understand the point. I do. Because I think from Slott's point of view, he's like, if I drop Salah and nothing gets better, I start to look like I don't really know what the fuck I'm doing. But it's always going to be a story if he drops him as well.

11:21Exactly. So there's always going to be a tension. A lot of heat on it. So to me, it feels like, just to go back to the spirit of the question, how do you think he fits into the club going forward? I think they have to find a way of getting into a mindset where we're the current Premier League champions we're one of the biggest clubs in the world no player is big in this club whoever it is if we need Salah we'll use him if we don't feel like we need him for example we've got games midweek we're going through a busy Christmas period he's 33 years old we're going to have to drop him Slott basically used that example Slott basically gave that reason he said we've got a really busy Christmas period not everyone can play every game he needs to rest I imagine he'll play against Sunderland at home this week.

12:00And then on Wednesday, then we'll see how it goes. But ultimately, he needs to get into a mindset where he can have the flexibility to not play him all the time every single game. And the way they get into that mindset is essentially by playing better and winning games, which again is easier said than done. Yeah, and I mean, look, the best version of Liverpool that we will see this season is surely going to have more salary. I don't believe for a second that they are now going to suddenly move on without Salah as part of things. It is, just as Luke says, maybe a case of, you know what? You haven't been properly managed in terms of physicality over the past few years.

12:40You've played a lot of football. There's been a lot of dependence on you. Now we're going to manage you a little better and choose you for certain games and certain periods when you can potentially give your most. What about this, though? One for you guys. Another way of answering the question is whether you think that they won the game at West Ham and they played better and they looked better, partly at least because Salah wasn't in the team. And there can be different reasons for that, right? It can be that you get the flexibility to play other players in more preferred positions, but it can also be a psychological thing.

13:14We don't know this, but if Salah's the biggest guy at the club by miles, which is kind of hard to believe if you've got Virgil van Dijk. I was going to see it. But they're different players. and so all of a sudden even if it's subconscious you're always looking for Salah you're always looking to bring him in you're always looking to play to him and if he's not there you're kind of forced to not do that so if those factors are partly why you think Liverpool won the game at the weekend then that's another interesting conversation as well Yeah, I mean it's a small sample size of course there could be an element here of that particular game which Liverpool weren't brilliant at by the way we need to mention West Ham and what they were trying to do but yeah what were they trying to do well yeah not what Peketar was trying to do yeah yeah so I think to use a sort of another player as an example here you remember obviously Cristiano Ronaldo was lashing in the goals for Real Madrid and so on you know sometimes if he was if he was not in the side due to injury or whatever you might get one or two of the other players kind of come up a bit and play a bit more because oh he's not there so I can shine a bit more and so on now Real Madrid It's like us when you're not hosting the Ramble, Marcus.

14:24Some might argue. Yeah. So it's, you know, but also to, you know, finish off the chat, and we could link this back to the Ramble as well. You know, Real Madrid was certainly not a better side without Cristiano.

14:39Very nice. And so, you know, you can get a bit of a knee-jerky reaction sometimes. Oh, well, Ronaldo shouldn't be in the side because, you know, back in the day, I'm struggling to think maybe Benzema played a bit better or whoever. You're going to go, well, okay, but just hold your horses here because of what he's done for the team. Now, he was always scoring, whereas Salah at Liverpool, yes, he came out the side. They play a West Ham team who some West Ham fans were really disappointed in the way West Ham played that game because they felt Liverpool were there for the taking. I was one of those people, very frustrating to watch.

15:11Right, and so West Ham didn't really kind of go for it. You know, Bowen flashes a chance just wide towards the end of the game. That goes in, which really, I thought Bowen would have, When it dropped to his feet, I thought this is a goal. So, you know, that changes the complexity of it, of the result, certainly.

15:30I don't think that performance against West Ham is good enough to say, ah, Liverpool are better without Mo Salah inside. They have to do, if they want to show that they are moving on without Mo Salah, if they actually are, then they need to do it against a better side. Well, they've got a chance when he goes to AFCON. And also playing Joe Gomez in, I think, made a difference. Again, I don't think it's, oh, for crying out loud, you play Joe Gomez, you're going to win games. But I think that did make a little bit of a difference. I think it's had a massive impact on Salah at the right backseat. Of course, it's the way he plays.

16:00That's natural. I will say, by the way... So there's a few things going on there. You just can't simply say, oh, without him in the team. If this carries on for another game or two and then he goes to AFCON and there's an uptick in form, it won't just because of this. The reason why they've had a poor season so far and they've lost a lot of games and been very sloppy in a lot of games, it's not because Mo Salah is not performing. There's a myriad of factors going into this. That is one. The one guy that you think, ah, he could get us out of danger or he could produce a moment of magic. That's not happening.

16:32Sorry, what were you going to say? You cut David off. Sorry, David. Yeah, I was going to say, I will say, I think there's a chance here to engineer Verts into the system more. Yes. And potentially make him the main man. And I wonder if Slot's looked at it and said, look, if we take away Salah and the kind of imposing figure that he is, maybe the team will start to look to and run more through Wurtz and he'll feel more comfortable within himself in terms of what he does. And I know he's probably going to be playing on the opposite side on the left, but still it will be a case of what's being said.

17:03Players will look and see that Salah's not there and they'll go, oh, Wurtz is there. He's going to be the man link in between midfield and attack. So it could play into his hands as well and help him grow. And maybe because of the pressure of that fee and everything that's been written about Florian Wurtz, that this is what they want to do to try and help him and aid him with success. And how does Salah fit into the club going forward? Well, he's got to understand that that is the direction of travel at Liverpool because of that AFCON break. And can he accept the fact that he's maybe not the main man anymore going forward this season particularly?

17:37And is he going to be an impact sub on the odd occasion? And with very, very few exceptions, that is always the direction of travel of football when you're 34 in June. That's how it is. yeah alright coming up after this we've got a creative suggestion for how to fix VAR

18:03alright welcome back hello to you Sheeneth Kennedy who's asked us a question on YouTube I don't think we've had a question from someone called Sheeneth before so it's very welcome without being overly reactive are the bottom three already set Wolves are obviously gone and Leeds and Burnley are looking out of their depth at this stage. Now West Ham have Nuno and Nottingham Forest have Dyche. Is it all over? Harsh on Leeds who are in there on goal difference and quite harsh on Burnley who are in there by one point. And before you guys answer, let me just throw in what I always say, but it's important context.

18:38We are now in the peak era of worrying about the Premier League table earlier than ever before. And we are 13 games in. We're a third into the season just over. And the very idea that this is set and done now, possibly with the exception of Wolves, I think is personally quite mad, quite mad, particularly given the size of club Leeds are. But over to you guys. I just love the chat around Wolves whenever the discourse. It's just like, oh, they're gone. They're just not there anymore. It's like it's said and done. Like Luke said, it's insane how early we are. talking about this. I think that bottom three looks very, very good for relegation.

19:25Yeah. That's the thing. However, you don't want to say it, but I think a lot of people - I don't want to say anyone's gone. It feels very, very extreme at this point. But that's a good three to go down basically. Yeah. Probably Marcus loves Scott Parker. it's a problem it's maybe a case of looking at who gets pulled into the mix well that's the problem that's what I want to see it's difficult look the candidates for it are quite thin on the ground right I thought to start the season Brentford would struggle you take that many goals at the team you take their other players out really important players and you think they're going to struggle big time they're doing absolutely fine I thought Wolves would struggle I didn't think it would be this bad and then you obviously you look at the three promoter clubs with exceptional Sunderland, because David, you gave us a steer on that at the start of the season, which we happily lapped up and that was proven to be right.

20:20But outside of that, the way that Forrest and West Ham have hired managers, I mean, with West Ham, you never really know because they can completely self-immolate. I mean, Nuno is a manager who has done really well in recent times and there's examples of it, right? He's done well at Wolves. He's done well at Nottingham Forest. They look to have improved slightly so far under him at West Ham. But he's also been shit in places. And West Ham is a basket case of a club. So they will be, if you want to pick one team out to make shit decisions, it'll be West Ham. They'll make terrible recruiting decisions every fucking five minutes if you give them a chance.

20:57So you can't... Yeah, transfer window was greeted by those fans. It can't go on to it soon. They're a sucker for a 50 million strike or somewhere in like the Bundesliga or the Dush League just kind of, you know, to bring in. But I think they are the ones though because the sad thing is at the start of this question when you were saying, Luke, about we've never been so obsessed with this so early on in the season. But when all said and done, as David said, you are looking at that bottom three and you think, well, you're trying to make a case for West Ham, fine. Dyche, Forrest, I think will be fine.

21:27Oh, you're not sure, David. Do you think they could be? It's so much West Ham who's going to get pulled in. Okay, fine. It's a very talented squad there, Forrest, by the way. Sure. Just get pulled in. But yes, my prediction would be that they're going to be fine. Fulham are now starting to win a few games which is what they needed to do Fulham's lack of a goal scorer has been a bit of a problem with Muniz being out with an injury but I think that squad and the manager is good enough as they've shown before this run of games Fulham have played I think better football and not picked up the points they had Wolves at home Everton away Sunderland at home Spurs away and I was thinking you've got to be looking at least six points there may be seven well they've got nine and I think they're kind of back on track, I would suggest.

22:09Everton under Moyes, I don't think they're going to go down and then you're into Newcastle, Spurs, Bournemouth, Brentford, Palace, Liverpool. You know, like to me, West Ham would be the one you're thinking maybe Forrest. Sadly, and I think this is a bit of a shame for Leeds United because I think they've done all right this season so far. And I think Burnley have done okay, all things considered. But the problem is, even if Burnley did well, I just think they've got a limited squad and the manager has... Leeds have got better players than Burnley. Yeah, I do. I do, yeah. I always look at who's going to get you 10, 12 goals, right?

22:41So who's going to get you that at Leeds? Who's going to get you that at Burnley? Wolves would probably go, oh, we've got Bruin Larson who can get us some goals. So you always look at that. I think Fulham have got the best manager. Yeah. So I think that'll get them up. So you kind of like look at what's the positives here. For West Ham, you'll go, oh, they've got Jared Bowen. Yeah. But it's kind of like, that team isn't really functioning. And if Bowen doesn't score, then who scores for them? Who wins them games? Yeah. I just think but Nuno is a canier operator at Premier League as is Deich Dan Farker and Parker he is I just think it's settled then they're down they're down sadly Luke that would be my in fact that is the bottom three right now I might need to go and check this but I'm pretty sure that they were my three to go down right and I'm not just because of the reason stated it would be great if Leeds could do it it would be great if Burnley it would be amazing if Burnley could do it do you think that we just don't want to think that it's done now hence our reaction to Sheena's question because it's really fucking boring if it is.

23:35Well, it is boring. We were hoping that it would be a little bit different this season because it started off like it might be. Well, it's boring and it's also like bordering on disrespectful to, you know. You can't be disrespectful to Leeds. You're now. You're being serious. Come on. You can't mistreat Leeds. Do you not like Leeds? No, I'm joking. No, but like... They give it out though, don't they? They give it out. It's a great club. It's a massive club. No, no, no. I tell you what you're saying. They have to... With the players Leeds have got, just to focus on them for a second, joke on the side they have to be really really good at home in a way that they haven't really been able to I think so far they've lost to Spurs they've lost to these are good teams I suppose they have to be really good at home the first 11 they've got I actually think it's quite good I actually think it's pretty decent what about the manager they've arguably got the worst coach in the league I mean there was a section of leads who wanted Farka gone they wanted a better manager I mean I mean, I'm not a Leeds fan, but I was like, they need to do that.

24:36Fine, so maybe that's a factor. But I think we were desperate for it to be different this season because last season was such a... But we've already got that with Sunderland. Yeah, true. So I think, you know, if you have one promoted side to stay up, that's great. And not just stay up the way they're playing. So I think, yeah, we have been concerned about what's happened in the last couple of seasons in the Premier League. But even that, Leeds and Burnley, I mean, even Wolves, it's still early days but Leeds and Burnley in particular they're still competitive it's better than the efforts of last year way better people are very very scarred by Southampton and they really really they really obviously they start a bloody winning again in the championship unacceptable unacceptable what's the answer answer the question is it already set yes or no yes it will be much more competitive but I think those three will be the three there we go I think I've talked my way into thinking that as well but West Ham possibly keep an eye Look over your shoulder, West Ham.

25:33David, you've got the next question. Yes, I have. So this one's from Copper on Discord. With there being jury of people in the UK, would a three-person panel VAR system speed up the process? I have no care of watching the referee. Redundantly watch it on a screen at the side of the pitch, and I want VAR decisions to be snappier. Why not set a 60-second timer, after which three refs at Stockley vote on the evidence they've seen so far. Majority wins. More admin to make it snappier? Come on, come on. 60 second time I don't mind I'll make it snappier for you just get rid of the whole bloody thing get rid of the whole foul jamboree just get rid of the whole thing and then we just back to how everything was yeah let's just do that you know that's not the answer it is the answer when mummy and daddy still loved each other and Christmas was better there's a bit of error in the game leave it we're humans we're not robots we don't need fire it is shit yeah but I mean it is shit it has given us quite a lot of content on here though I mean unwanted content It has, but that's the idea.

26:31Again, I hate that. You know, this sounds a bit conspiracy. I see it about these people at Stockley Park. No, but they're radicalising the game. Yes, they are. They're radicalising the one you to talk about. They've got their little shows on Sky Sports and everything like that. He's got a point. I know you've got a point. Behind him. There's far too much fucking air time, man, honestly. But you know the horse has bolted, David. Do you not like the Michael Aaron show? No, I don't want Michael Aaron show. Do you not think he should be front on a show? No, I want to watch highlights and a little bit of analysis, and that's about it.

26:57That's it, okay. I don't care what you do in your little room in Stockley Park. No. But we should answer this question. Yeah. I think you already have. I, look, the horse has bolted off. Are you going to have it? You can't have a horse in there. Of course we allowed it to. Why not? But I'm not going to go on again. I'm getting wound up, so I'm going to stop. We did allow it to. That's right. And I think we were seduced by it. No, but you can't have a situation where a player headbutts another player in, say, a World Cup final and VAR lets it go. You can't. it's ridiculous but the linesman will see it yeah right or if he doesn't then he doesn't it's just margin of error let's get back to hating human beings it happens in life computer systems well anyway the three person panel so they're basically saying they don't want the referee to go over so Copper is saying don't have the referee go over to the screen and have a look it doesn't work I don't think I admire his kind of I like that he's being creative to try and solve the problem I like the idea that you have three people basically telling the referee but I don't think but the referee needs to referee the game exactly the reason they had the screen the reason they used to have the screen if you remember I do remember they brought the screen in because people complained that someone else was refereeing the game and not the referee exactly I think the idea it's almost intrinsically linked to it what if the panel's at the side of the pitch like X Factor come on hit a button David get involved go on the buzzer get involved go on the buzzer go on the big screen yeah hey ding ooh that's entertainment I will not watch football anymore.

28:27But David, the thing is right, it's a bit like well, I'm not going to go down the political route with this. Right, sometimes when you know everything is, it's shit it's a whole, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What have we got left? Let's at least make it entertaining. Well, when you know everything is shit. It is. So it's a big old mess, this, right? What do you want? A boring mess or an entertaining mess? Yeah. Come on. Answer the question, David. Is this good at Headstall? Don't fold your arms and be defensive now. He's body language. He's disgusting. You agreed to do this podcast, all right?

28:56What do you expect? I didn't realise this question was going to be on. Yeah, you've set your stool out in a way that I like. I completely agree with the spirit of your answer. I think the answer to this, to make it slightly better, might just be linked to what David said. Now, David is alluding to the idea that people who are referees or they are officials, they can't resist trying to insert themselves into things, right? Is that what you're saying, right? Absolutely. If they can be coaxed into not doing that, you could then put the threshold of clear and obvious way up where it should be and stop interfering all the time.

29:30That's the point. Part of the problem is that the threshold's too low. It used to be clear and obvious. And then the obvious, the kind of comeback on that is, well, if it takes you five minutes, it's not clear and obvious, get on with it. So a timer might work. But no one's going to be satisfied. And they should understand that no one's going to be satisfied whatever happened. Is that not going to encourage more decisions, wrong decisions though? because people are going to be under pressure with that timer. The timer's going to be looming over them. And here lies a problem. Everyone wants quicker, quicker, quicker.

30:02But if the referee was looking at something... Was Piers Morgan on X-Fact. He was on X-Fact that Britain's got talent. Premier League's got talent. At least choose Cal. Cal then. I can't look at him anymore. He looks too weird. I literally can't know who that is. Simon Cowell. I had no idea who you're talking about. Simon Cowell. Oh, I thought you said Cowell. He said Cowell. Cowell. I was like, who's Cowell? Who's this Cowell? You can't want Piers Morgan anywhere near a football stadium. No, I don't. That's because that's what he wants. He wants to be accepted by the football community. He can never be accepted.

30:33You always want the opposite of what he wants. We can't let him be accepted. Unless he's talking to one of those nutters in America and you kind of go, you're that bad. I actually agree with Piers Morgan. Anyway, so, but the problem is with the timer though is you know what it's like. What's going to happen is a referee will be looking at something and scrutinising something and go tick, tick, tick, boom and it's over and everyone will go, I don't have 20 seconds to look at it. The whole thing. This is what I mean. It's a circus, Marcus. That's what I'm saying. It's a circus. You can have a big time at stadiums as well.

31:02But what is ridiculous, though, is entertaining. I go back to the free version panel. I'm making the countdown time and then Marcus can do it as Nick Hewer. Now you're talking. You can say no penalty or whatever. Boom. No pen. No pen. Get on with the game. We've done this to ourselves, Copper. We can't get out of it. Just try and enjoy it as much as you can. But three more refs at Stockley Park is objectively mental. There's no way we're doing that. We've honestly gone off the edge of the cliff, right, and doing somersaults on the way down. That's where we are. David would put three more refs at Stockley Park and then seal it shut by the sound of it.

31:39Yeah, yeah. I don't want to see them again. You've got to respect referees. What about Stockley Park? It's the big brother house. We can watch them all the time. I was thinking more Squid Game, but fine. Not David Coote. Okay.

31:50so did we answer the question it can't be fixed it can't be fixed you can't get any better my idea is a three person panel sort of X Factor style at the side of the pitch buzzers I think that would be great don't don't turn your nose up at that David you get on board I feel like I'm being punked yeah you sure really don't like it get on your fucking your serious ESPN podcast you know where you are you lie down with dogs boy you get fleas coming up after this could you support another team

32:21right we've got something serious to talk about it's like an instruction yeah you said that going into the break could you please just support another team could you support another process right on friday we talked about the 12 chimney stadium that has been proposed for birmingham city that can't be the official name for it it's what we're going with it's a working title 12 chimney stadium it's a working title this from Oh No Lewis on Discord I find Discord he said the Birmingham City Stadium isn't cynically being touted to distract us because we thought it was a bit gimmicky yeah I'll say my piece after you carry on okay others who were in the pod at the same time as we thought it was a bit you know gimmicky I can't remember what I said anyway so Oh No Lewis so the Birmingham Stadium isn't cynically being touted to distract us We're overwhelmingly happy with our owners, even after a recent relegation.

33:13I don't think any set of fans have ever been more fond of owners in my memory than we are of ours. He does say maybe early Golden Sullivan question mark. I can't remember that, to be honest. And as it's kind of subsequently transpired, maybe not the best one to liken them to. But anyway, I take the point. But I doubt that comes close to the feeling the fans have at the moment. And that's without the new stadium for the most part. if this stadium doesn't get built, that will all go down the shitter and there will be uproar. The stadium is being built to capitalise on HS2 being finished. Well, I wouldn't, yeah, so, you know, don't hold your breath on that.

33:50The fans and that area of the city might not recover if this stadium doesn't get built. So quite strong words there from Ono Lewis. He then kind of undermines his own argument by saying, I may just be drinking the Kool-Aid, but I think the stadium happens almost exactly as it looks. So, Arno Lewis, Birmingham City supporter, he's going all in on this and he's saying, look, the owners, by what we're saying here, they've got a good feeling among the fan base. The stadium, with its chimneys, is what they want. David, what do you want? Before David starts, I'm just going to be quick. Okay, go on. Go on.

34:24I'm just going to read this as it's written. Yeah, go on. No opinion. David, you feel free to come off the back of this. Fine. The majority of the High Speed 2 project was planned to be completed by 2033, but this was delayed in 2025 with no new completion date given. Right. David. Am I speaking about Birmingham? No, no, no, no. I was really going to go in HST. At some point in the future, maybe while we're still alive, would you like to see this 12th Chimney Stadium? I mean, I'd love to see it as a feat of engineering. Of course. Yeah, of course, of course. And I'm going to shock you, Marcus.

35:00Go on. I didn't think the mock-up was that bad Pete likes it as well Pete's a friend of the creative my point wasn't yeah yeah yeah I'm done North East Union no I didn't dislike the design I just thought that it's hard enough building a new stadium as they're already finding that's hard enough why then give yourself a load more extra brickwork because you want to represent the heritage I get that so just do like a chimney at either end 12 of the buggers that was my point I reckon they might reduce the number of chimneys. Yeah, fine. I like the idea. So you start with 12 and you go back and you go, well, we've got eight in the end.

35:35That's still very good. Yeah, exactly. Are you going to do a Tommy Shelby or not? I'm fucking sitting here waiting. Are you going to do one? I'm not so good with Tommy. What are you, Arthur? 12 chimneys, Tom. Absolute fucking piss tape. Arthur. And then, of course, if old Solomon was involved, nah, nah, fuck it. 12 fucking chimneys, mate. You can't fucking give me 12 fads. Fuck off, mate. So there you go. I hope Oh No Lewis on Discord feels like we've given that question of respect as well. I want to address... You shove your chimneys up your arse. I do want to address something though because I made what I thought was a general point relating to the club I support about stadium kind of plans and architects being involved and being used as a distraction technique from the fans being unhappy about something.

36:26Which did happen at Portsmouth a fair amount as I've already mentioned I wasn't saying that this is what this was because I understand the Birmingham City owners to be hugely ambitious you can see why they're hugely ambitious that is a massively populated it's all there for them strategically very important part of the country and there's no reason at all why Birmingham City or indeed any other kind of Midlands club of that size can't take those ambitions back it properly and become super successful sleeping giant I totally get it I totally understand it so I don't want oh no and I actually responded to him personally on the Discord because I'm quite active on there and told him this anyway but I do think it's a great thing in terms of the architecture I'm not an architecture expert at all so I can tell you whether it's good or not I don't know but if it does keep to the history of the area and all that kind of stuff great and by the way St Andrews has been the home of Birmingham since a very early 1900 so I mean you know if they are due a new stadium then good luck to them I think it's a great thing I like the fact that that's, you know, on Discord, you go into bat with that, whereas...

37:29I wasn't even going to bat, I was just saying, sorry about that, I didn't mean to say that. You were getting involved, whereas I was very much going into bat when there was some people suggesting that Marzipan wasn't very nice. Yeah, we've all got our cross-rugged. That's true. Yeah, it's awful. We've all got our issues that we need to... We've all got our manifesto. I think it's really important that we also acknowledge that, you know, fans get fucked over all the time. Yeah. And so do working people in this country, right? They do, They get fucked over all the time. So if they can get something built there, which not only gives people something to be proud about, but also gives people jobs and boosts the economy and helps people, that's a great thing.

38:03I'm not being cynical about that at all. Out of interest, if Portsmouth were to build a new stadium, what would be on their stadium represent the heritage of the city? A big ship, surely. And also, and the same question to Fulham as well. What would Fulham be? Well, Fulham would be in the style of Victoria's Sponge. I knew that. Portsmouth was probably in the top three most historic cities in the country, mate. So it'd be absolutely outrageous. You've attacked David there a little bit. That was harsh. He's asking you a genuine question. I haven't even had a good point. That was very detensive.

38:32Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a serious question. He's being a cunt. I actually know. That is outrageous. I told that. You'll be ignored. You know you're being ignored too. I'm only joking. I'm only joking. I'm only joking, David. But what I'm saying... Top three historical cities in the country? I think so. Right, London. Bearing in mind that cab driver told us that Liverpool's the most historical city in the world. Move on, move on. Right, so, I mean, you're up against Manchester. I think it's not in the top 10. Come on. Why isn't it in the top 10? D-Day landings from Portsmouth. Yeah. That was more than about the destination, to be fair.

39:05Yeah, but you've got to go from somewhere. Every journey starts with a single step, Marcus. It's probably the most important day in Western history. A lot of it went from Portsmouth. Yeah, but look at it now. It hasn't done much for it, has it? Charles Dickens' birthplace. aha but what oh you're going to write a child accident at birth no I can't win I can't win oh no Lewis I know how you feel put upon working class being put upon yet again working class put upon he's from Sunderland oh fuck off like honestly right we're doing the next question yeah go on then we're doing the next question because it's a lot more cheery it's a lot more cheery it's from Hazza no fucking fighting on Instagram right here we go if your team got liquidated yeah here we go this is one for you Bobby would you support another team or just watch football from afar Luke and we're laughing about it but both of our teams have come very close to it well indeed I mean it is a show we're not laughing obviously but it is shocking when that does happen the litmus test has always been and will always be how do you feel when they lose because you can celebrate a win you can enjoy watching a team play well and be a part of it when we saw despite all the problems the problematic nature of Newcastle United these days, with due respect to David, we saw Newcastle's first home game back in the Champions League for years and years and they beat PSG.

40:27It was amazing. We got into it. Totally, yeah. It'd be hard not to. But if they lose that game, I've forgotten about it after 10 seconds. So when people say to me, because I go to Spurs a fair bit, I go to Fulham sometimes with you, I go to Arsenal a fair amount, I go to Peckham Town, all the rest of it. Loads of different places. I never, ever care when they lose. And possibly that's because Portsmouth still exist. but if I had no choice maybe I would gravitate to Crystal Palace who's my local team or my mum's supported West Ham when I was a boy so maybe I'll gravitate in those kind of directions but it's impossible to say and I don't ever want to find out because Portsmouth are my team and when I went down there to see the most recent game I was done it was the Preston North End game which they won drove down on my own went on my own it's an amazing experience there's nothing else like it so I can go to Fulham or Spurs or Palace and I can enjoy it because I love football I'm a football fan it supports Portsmouth rather than just a Portsmouth fan but it's not the same and I don't ever want it to be the same because I don't want Portsmouth to be liquidated.

41:23So it's very much you're trying to get yourself into a headspace which obviously would be quite a negative one because your team's out of business and whatnot. But you have a soft spot for Manchester United. Yeah, I have a soft spot for Manchester United through my family. But Luke made a great point there about how you feel when the team loses. And it's Sunderland, who I feel a bit sickly about when they lose. And when they win, there's more joy there sort of thing. So it's kind of like, it's almost like wanting to see Manning A to do well. So I don't know. It's funny. The feeling has dissipated considerably.

42:03Just varying factors. And I think, I don't know, you kind of realign yourself a bit as you get older. And you start to feel, I've always been proud of where I'm from, but you start to feel more pride from where you're from and acknowledge that sort of thing. So your love almost grows for the club in a bit more in that way. So that's where I'm at with Sunderland like that. So no, I would not. I don't think I'd be tempted to watch football and not watch football at all if Sunderland didn't exist. I think you'd watch football in the way you consume... They'd be back on the NBA, wouldn't they? I wish basketball was there.

42:41Yeah, I prefer NFL these days. NFL, come on. Marcus, come on. Yeah, that's poor. But I think... No, but you consume a lot of football, and I think the way you watch, say, European football, I think that would maybe be how you would watch the Premier League. Do you do European football, do you? He does do it. Just a little bit. A little podcast called The Content. Do you know what? I've seen the invoices.

43:02Astronomically high, but... I think that... I think my guess, total guess, I think people would watch football, whether that would be instantaneous or whether they would grow. I think, again, I think it's a case-by-case basis. It depends how attached you are, where you live, all these sorts of things. But obviously the question is being asked to us. I think for me, yeah. You had quite an itinerant upbringing though, so you only came to support the team much later on. Exactly. And I think, the trouble is, but it wasn't a negative thing. It wasn't something you love has been taken away. and I think that would take time for people for the majority of fans to get over I don't think some would but I think most would eventually and it depended on where you live because if it's a huge part of your local community I don't think you probably would ever get over that to be quite frank but you would still, you love the game and I think people would start to watch football a bit more and so on and some would maybe start to warm up to others and so on but it's such a difficult question to answer because it hasn't happened to us it would be really interesting to get answers from people where this has happened and obviously you'd want as few as possible because you don't want this to happen because football clubs are such precious things that so many a number of people who come in and buy up and blah blah blah blah I mean to use an obvious one Chan Seery does not understand what an institution that football club is and what it means to people I was going to say actually I'm glad you brought that up so there were stories obviously of Sheffield Wednesday and Sheffield United and merging together.

44:43So that's another question. So I guess I'm going to spin... Good idea. I'm going to spin... Good idea, though. I'm going to spin this... A lot more efficient. Yeah. I'm going to spin this question a little bit in terms of would you still support the merged club if they... Fuck off. Fuck off. Fuck you now. I think you have your answer there. No way. You and the Saints? Well, I support... I support... First of all... Portsampton. We don't use that word on this show. Yeah. We use the neutral Southampton. I've compromised on that. Okay. Other people need to compromise on it as well. Okay. Pompey Saints has got a nice ring to it.

45:14When you support a team in a one-club city, it's even more. Oh, well, totally, yeah. I mean, that would really impact. I watched Luke Mua singing when the Saints go on March. What's he doing? The money-yard pair. What's he doing? The money-yard pair. He's getting you better for all the VAR stuff. He's not fucking getting that invoice paid today. I watched Boston at home to Bristol City on Saturday lunchtime on the telly at home. and it was honestly just so shit. It was like, it made me feel, I had to really work hard to, I was literally, this sounds terrible and hopefully people listening will understand what I mean.

45:49I had to start telling myself, you've got a nice family, you've got a wonderful son. Great work, Colin. You've got, yeah, you've got a nice life. Do not let this derail the rest of your Saturday because I was so pissed off and I can't imagine getting that pissed off about anything else in football. Look at what I have got. Possibly England, but England's a bit more, England's a bit more kind of emotional. I feel sad about England. Yes. Because it's a shared experience. Whereas Portsmouth, I get so fucking angry at how shit they are all the time. But is there like 5 % of you that revels in that?

46:25Have you seen what I mean? What, in the anger? In that anger, it gives you fuel. I guess in a way, every no brings you closer to a yes. Sooner or later, they're going to win. They're going to win again. But anyway, I think people, will be fully on board with how I feel about that anyway. That's all from me. Pompy Saints. Fucking outrageous I've got to put up with that at the workplace. This is a place of work, David. I relish it. It's workplace bullying. Can I come in more, Marcus? Of course you can. Thank you. I think you'll find that it's a place of banter first and then it's a place of work.

46:55Apparently, I'm Lord's banter, apparently, so I know that more than anyone else. Well then, get involved. Who are you again? I'm the banter slinger. Just chucking it around. A little bit more Wild Wild West feel about me, you know. Anyway, thank you very much for listening to the Football Ramble, part of the ACAST Creator Network. Please do send us your responses, particularly to that one about clubs going out of business and would you support another team? So yeah, send us your responses to anything we've spoken about today, your opinions, and get your questions in for next week's mailbag and become a friend of the Ramble to join the conversations on our Discord.

47:26It's a happening place. It's great to start the show with a Noel's House Party mention and end it with 1999's Wild Wild West with Will Smith. Hey, that's not what I was going for, but you know if the cap fits yeah it was disappointing that film it was very disappointing quite a good soundtrack but we've always got men in black we have

47:49apparently the steering wheel in the cockpit is called a yoke I looked it up in the break that's a yoke the football ramble is a stack production and part of the Acast Creator Network