Mailbag: Are the Premier League's 'best of the rest' better than ever?

0:00Hello everybody, welcome to the Football Ramble Mailbag. This season's title race, underrated players in the World Cup for the orders of the day. It's Tuesday 7th of October. I'm Marcus Feller. I'm Jim Campbell. I'm Lars Evelson.

0:24Hello everybody. Welcome to the Mailbag. It's a pleasure to have you with us. Of course, if you want your question on the Mailbag, get in touch on X, Blue Sky or Instagram at FootballRamble. comment on YouTube or email us at footballramble.com. And of course, friends of the Ramble, you get the old Discord priority. Plenty for you to be getting on with there. But in the meantime, it is mailbag time. And Lars Sivitzan, it's a pleasure to have you with Jim and me. Hi, I'm excited to be. I love the fact that I kind of occasionally swoop in to the Ramble main feed like a slightly eccentric uncle. I'm sort of like a tangential member of the Ramble extended universe.

1:01What a great thing to be. It's always a treat as well. it is yeah swooping in like a big beautiful Norwegian bird true true weird uncles would bring gifts just saying yeah so maybe that's what you think about yeah bring that in mind for the next time Jim Lars we can always improve I think is what Jim's trying to say there but anyway we'll get on with the questions this is from CJ on X is this the best the rest have been in the Premier League for a long time recent title challenges

1:43Lars, let's go to you first, being the charitable chaps that we are. Is this the best the rest have been in the Premier League for a long time? Listen, I come in here determined to bring positivity and good vibes and things. I don't love the fact that the first question, I immediately have to go into Captain Wet Blanket mode. But I do kind of think it's more about the favourite not really being that good at this point in time. I actually agree with you there. I think it's more, yeah, Liverpool, with all these shiny new signings, still haven't found their new dynamic, still haven't quite gelled together.

2:24City are in a bit of a rebuild state, which is why I backed Arsenal to win the title. They're kind of the most solid one, but they also have some games where the attack just kind of doesn't fire. So, and I also think it's a little bit early doors. If we look at the ones that are near the top of the table, I mean, Bournemouth are phenomenal, but do we do, do we actually think pound for pound, like they're great, but do we think they're going to last the distance? Maybe not. Spurs have gotten results without always looking super convincing. Love Palace, but I think there's a definite ceiling to what you can do with that squad.

2:55And I think that's why Glasner's got one eye on the door, right? which is because he knows there's only so far you can take this group. Chelsea are a mess, but have a lot of... Well, they're not a mess, but they have a lot of really good players, but it's a little bit messy. Listen, I think it's more about the biggest teams not being fully cooked at the moment. But I mean, the outcome is... If the outcome is that the league is more fun than usual, I'm all for it. Yeah, I kind of really agree with what Lars is saying there, Jim. But do you? I think this is a very October conversation, isn't it?

3:26and I appreciate why CJ's asking this question because actually there are quite a number of teams where you think they are kind of perhaps they've risen their own ceiling to the point where it's quite an exciting prospect and Bournemouth and Palace are the two obvious examples but there's quite a few teams in there who look good and I think you throw the promoted teams or certainly you know Sunderland and Leeds looking a lot more competent than the previous promoted teams have done for the last couple of years and you think yeah it's actually quite unpredictable But the true test of this comes when the games start coming thick and fast and the squads start getting tested, injuries pile up, fatigue piles up.

4:03Once the cup competitions start later on as well and sort of truly get going, that will show if there are a number of teams who have got the sort of metal to really sort of push this. I think there is a wider interesting thing happening within the Premier League, which is that it's the quality of what people last season started calling the middle classes. So Bournemouth are a really good example of it. Palace are running themselves really, really well at the moment. Obviously, you look at Brighton as probably the example of how to run a kind of mid-level club in the Premier League and be successful from it.

4:43and a lot of teams are sort of adopting that model of selling really well, rebuilding really well, and then just, you know, rinse and repeat. And looking at Graham Potter's time since he left Brighton, it actually makes me wonder if it's even possible to do a bad job there because they've just got everything set up so well around you that it's, you know, it just seems to function really, really well for everyone. So I think that is absolutely an element that is making the league feel very competitive this season. And I think the kind of like anyone can beat anyone in this league cliche has never really been true.

5:16It's something we used to hear people say all the time in the Premier League. If a manager had lost a game, they perhaps wouldn't have expected to. But there is certainly an element that these teams are way, way more than making up the numbers. And yeah, I do expect that before long, the familiar pattern will emerge and there'll be a sort of top level pulling away from everyone else. How many teams are in that is yet to be seen, isn't it? But yeah, I'd love it to be the case, but I just think it's too early to make a call like that. Lars. So Captain Wet Blanket again. I don't disagree with the idea that we have.

5:53Last year, this narrative about the rise of the clever middle of the three Bs, in particular Brighton, Bournemouth, and Brentford, who all seem to be very cleverly run. Pound for pound gets a lot out of what they have. A lot of podcast minutes and inches of columns were devoted to this last season. and not mistakenly so but but after all of that at the end of the season where did they end up brighton were eighth and bournemouth were ninth and brentford were tenth so that's not like super far away from where we would kind of expect like i get i agree that these are smarter and better run clubs than what we had like maybe 15 years ago when you had like all kinds of random stuff in the middle of the premier league like teams managed by steve bruce you know all kinds of obscenities but but but also just i also just think man united finished 15th and spurs finished 17th that was the big thing that happened last year if they were like in the sort of top eight as you'd expect then brighton would have been pushed down to 10th bornmouth would have been 11th but yeah it would have just been more of what kind of what we expect so i also i think we may have over egged the best practice pudding a little bit about how how genius i just think there's a limit to what can do with the budgets these teams are working on.

7:04I agree with you. Being a Fulham fan, I do agree with you. Having seen that play out a few seasons now, and I'm happy with mid-table. Do you know what I mean? You want more, but realistically, Lars, again, how many times have I said this on this podcast? To be the 10th best team, or the 11th best team in England is an achievement. Clearly, if that context is needed there, because if Liverpool finish 11th, they'll be disappointed. It's very hard to to push into those Champions League, Europa League places, which is why that Nottingham Forest season under Nuno seems so remarkable. But if you're framing it as perhaps CJ was a little bit with regard to challenging for the title, I still think this is a two horse race.

7:48I don't put Man City in there. I think Man City will be third. I think they could do. They could prove us wrong. When was it? Two seasons ago when Jurgen Klopp in his final season at Liverpool, whenever that was if my memory is correct Man City win the league Arsenal very very close and Liverpool were pretty close up until the kind of final stages and that was a good title race you would say of course we have been conditioned now to see one team just run away with it as Liverpool sort of did a bit last season which is real recency bias isn't it because the seasons like the two seasons before that were very very tight yeah but they were tight with two teams so again the idea that you're going to get more than three teams going for it for a title i just i think is how many times has that happened in the history of the top flight in ingler if you you know exactly because as i say that season with klops last season when we had three teams going for it we were all going blimey get a load of this this is quite rare because we were used to liverpool and man city going for it and then obviously arteta and arsenal challenging as well with man city you if you get two teams in a title race that that can be quite exciting for me it's either Liverpool or Arsenal this season.

9:00Man City are distinctly the third best team, and I think that's where they will finish. The idea of Chelsea or Newcastle or Spurs mounting a title bid this season, I wouldn't agree with that. I do think the European places, though, Lars, I think that's an interesting conversation because who's going to finish fourth and fifth? I think that's really difficult to call this year. Yeah, and I think that's an interesting discussion because there are teams there that, like I don't trust Thomas Frank's Tottenham just quite yet United continue to be something of a mess and uh you mentioned in Man United there seems ridiculous to me by the way yeah I know but I feel like we kind of have to I concur with you though because there is this soup of teams like from I think we agree Arsenal Liverpool and City are still the top three in this league with Chelsea as the kind of aspirational fourth I think that's still the grouping maybe maybe but I would kind of put them in the soup after that where you've got like spurs possibly united newcastle i thought villa i thought villa would be in the soup but the early season form suggests they're maybe not so they need to get back into the soup they do that's what they need to do they need to get i mean two wins now maybe they're back on track but i i believe in emory's capacity to dump them straight back in the soup but that soup is very soupy i think i i think if we're gonna have england getting five champions league spots again which I would expect, the battle for the fifth one I think could be wild.

10:24And I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, totally. Forests aren't in the soup. No, forests are out of the soup. They've unsouped themselves. I worry that their soup days have gone for the foreseeable future. Forests are more like soup that's already been digested at this stage. Yeah, I think there are some people. What's another word for that, Jim, when the soup has been digested and what's left emerges from your body? there are some who suggest that definitely Crystal Palace and maybe even Everton under David Moyes could be souping themselves up this season yeah absolutely there are a lot of teams who look like they've not had a sort of significant setback yet you know I think Palace and Everton are a great example of that teams where you think oh they're on a really really good run of form but it's just whether or not it's sustainable isn't it and I just go back to the point I made earlier when the games start coming thick and fast some of these teams will start losing games and they will drop points.

11:21So essentially, in 10 games' time, the form that every single team in the Premier League is in right now is irrelevant, isn't it? It moves really quickly and we forget it every season. But I think we're just too early to be able to kind of make realistic predictions about it. Any of those teams in that soup. So I think we're all kind of agreed on CJ's question that it doesn't feel like, certainly in terms of the title challenge, it feels like kind of similar to what we've seen in recent seasons, probably a two-horse race. A three-horse race is quite a rare thing. But maybe, Lars, though, the thought of Liverpool and or Arsenal getting 93, 95, 97 kind of points this season, maybe that you could win the Premier League this season with 80-something points.

12:10Yeah, I think that's a succinct analysis. I think it's fascinating between them two if we have time to make another point on it is that I feel like they're kind of the opposite in that I think I still think Liverpool's ceiling is super high with this group of players they've put together It is, I should jump in here Lars and I appreciate that Liverpool won the Premier League with 84 points last season you know with Arsenal being 10 points behind them so I want to make that point before people think well hang on last season you didn't see a 90 plus points I think the point is more no one's getting to the mid 90s this season No, no, probably not I know I can't see that at all No because Liverpool and Man City have both lost twice already Yeah And that leaves you kind of a little Well not very much room to manoeuvre there I did think at the start of the season Certainly looking at Liverpool's squad And perhaps it will all click And perhaps they'll turn it around That this looks like a 90 plus point squad But I think that's what we've been conditioned I think maybe that's what CJ is You know when he said recent title chances I felt miles clear of the rest That's what he's talking about When you get those You know they're in the 90 point margin could we could we even see a real throwback Lars of a team winning the points within within a 70 point plus range that would be a real throwback spicy that would lovely I actually agree with Jim I do think Liverpool have assembled a potentially some 90 plus point season squad I just think they might need a year to get to know each other first before before they get there I think that's what we're kind of figuring out now I think their ceiling is super high I think they will like I think this is a team that will beat someone 5-6-7-0 at some point because all these attackers will just figure it out and run wild but i also just think as we're in there yeah but i think we're also seeing it's taking them a little while to gel and they're dropping some points whereas arsenal are kind of the opposite like i think arsenal's floor is super high because they're so good defensively like they're so rugged and solid and there just be a few games here and there when the attack doesn't pop off but now that they have more options to throw in from the bench yeah yeah where city i'm kind of weirdly unconvinced by almost everything about City right now except for Erling who's back in total freak mode and is just not a manageable player at the moment.

14:16Can't even say that's Norwegian bias, can you? No, you can't. He's so good right now and it's amazing. Did you hear what he said about Brentford at the weekend? He was saying I was a little bit tired before the game but the centre half started pushing me around a bit and that motivated me to just turn it on. It's like just on it. Oh God, the goal he scored was outrageous. The strength of him. I know we essentially talk about this every week but every week it's notable. The thing about Erling as well, so last season, there was a lot going on for him and I don't think he's spoken about it publicly because he's not a guy who will ever make excuses for anything.

14:49But I don't know if it was widely reported but one of the people closest to him in his life passed away last year. Ivar Egya, who was his father's best man at his wedding, was basically like an uncle to Erling and as someone Erling has said, this is the guy I feel the most relaxed with off the pitch and he spent a lot of time with him. He passed away from illness Erling then had his first child which is something that I think obviously he has maybe more resources and more help than some of us fathers listening but it can disrupt your life in ways you may be not prepared for and then City obviously had a bad year so a lot of stuff was going on and he still scored 22 goals that's like his floor in the Premier League is a 20 goal season and now he's looking like himself again and it's so scary but also very good.

15:35If you want to buy a book about him you know there's one out there there's loads of books out there but one in particular that we would recommend Lars I feel we're going to mention Erling Haaland later on in the show so put a pin in him and we're going to go for a break and coming up after this underrated players and underrated anthems

16:04Triggs has been in touch on Instagram I don't think this is the ghost of Roy Keane's dog but I also can't confirm that Triggs says Hello lads who do you think is the most underrated Premier League player of the decade so far? For me not that you asked but you're welcome to submit Triggs it would have to be Jordan Pickford arguably Everton's greatest ever keeper alongside Neville Southall, who without a doubt ensured their Premier League status for two, if not three separate seasons. Outrageously good clean sheet record and he's been a mainstay for England throughout, putting in memorable performances in major tournaments.

16:36Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. It's nice to hear Pickford get a mention there. Absolutely. I think because he can be quite hectic and crazy, you immediately think, oh, you can't trust him. And it's easy to project that onto him in a fun way as well, isn't it? The idea that like, because he's often like shouting at his defenders and you get the memes about him being annoyed at having to do any single part of his job. It's tempting to sort of make it seem like he's a lot more of a chaotic character than he actually is. Yeah, I think if he played his football in South America, they'd think he was a very quiet, conservative character.

17:08And I think in this country, maybe we're used to goalkeepers just kind of getting on with it and not showing much. I mean, I loved that moment for England in the Euros when England were playing Switzerland. And Jordan Shaqiri, of course he did, tried to score from the corner, which came back off the bar. Now, I reckon Pickford had it covered but Pickford turns around and looks at Shaqiri gives him a thumbs up and a wink as if it's like, oh, it was a good try that was. You don't expect that from... Well done, Power Cube. Yeah, you don't expect that from Goal Cube. So I'm glad he's been mentioned there by Triggs.

17:38It's a difficult question, this one, because there's certain players you immediately go to and you think, but they are kind of rated. Yes. You know, and so I was... is anyone truly underrated these days? Because I think the underrated player police are often out in force, aren't they? They're well-funded, that police force. They've got new cars and everything, water cannons, it's all gone off. Lots of members as well. There's tons of them. They can identify anyone who does not know ball. Yeah. And I would say... The number of players whom the streets will not forget is becoming quite... I think we need to start forgetting players.

18:17The street needs to develop some sort of forgetfulness again The streets are acting like 24-7 news coverage At some point it will be saturated We need to scale back on this But once the horse has bolted It's very, very difficult of course And this also gives rise to something I once tried to dub the Lee Carsley Syndrome Which is a player who is underrated for a while And then everyone discovers at the same time That he's underrated To the point where he kind of becomes overrated Yeah, you're right It's a massive pile-on as well But you also see this in certain former footballers being interviewed.

18:48And I'm not going to start naming names because it must be lovely talking about, if you're a former footballer, talking about your career and saying, you know what, actually, maybe I did have more talent than people sort of give me credit for. But then you do hear one or two of them saying certain things about... I was much better than Wayne Rooney when I was a teenager. Well, no, I wasn't looking at Michael Owen. Michael Owen had a fine career, you know, without injury. Goodness knows what you could achieve. but yeah anyway so I don't want to start having a go at people but anyway get back to the question Triggs the underrated Premier League player of the decade of the decade is what makes this tricky the decade is tricky because otherwise presumably we'd all say Claude McElhaney wouldn't we Ngo Ocante maybe I I I I I was thinking this the other day that a player who we thought was going to move from the Premier League by now but he's still there and he's still putting in performances And again, I think he is well-rated, but just trying to sort of maybe get this, is Kieran Trippier I was going to mention.

19:49Okay. Only because in the wider context of Trippier's career, because of Karl Walker at England, he was maybe overlooked a bit. And I understand that. He played a decent amount of games for England. But he did play a decent amount of games for England. And obviously in the previous... Decade. Well, no, I was going to say the previous Euros, or the last Euros rather, he was played on that left side and was given a lot of stick. But he did actually play, in terms of a solid defence, England didn't concede. It was going forward where they were completely unimaginative without kind of re-going over all that.

20:23But I think what Trippi has done since he's been at Newcastle United, I think those fans up there in Newcastle, they very much value what he's done, would be my guess. But he went in at a time when, I mean, I remember saying, what on earth is he doing going to Newcastle? You know, he's at Atletico Madrid playing in the Champions League. Newcastle were in a relegation scrap at the time. But him going in there, his leadership and experience was a huge part of Newcastle. Yes, the other signings as well, but getting them to kind of where they are now. He was great in the League Cup final. And this is when, you know, when Trippier stopped playing for England, again, I was one and a lot of people, you know, there was talk of him moving on, wasn't there?

21:03And I know with the emergence of Liveramento and one or two other players, they had to thought, oh, he's probably not going to play that much. But he ends up staying there and not getting a move. and is still, I think, maybe not the most crucial part of that team anymore, but he still plays his part. Oh, but he is a massive reference point for essentially everybody in that squad. He's a leader and he kind of leads by technical example as well as kind of the kind of application and the attitude. Yeah, and I think he was one of the first players to go there with this new regime and with Eddie Howe in charge and really, I think, capture the imagination of some of, I don't want to talk on behalf of the fans, I'm not one, as you all know, but that's the impression I get.

21:45But also as well for England, I think he was a really important player and can play, you know, like starting as wing back in the Euros final in 2020, but it was summer of 2021. You know, he played in a few different positions and also as well, I know that the question was specifically Premier League, but he did go to Atletico Madrid in 2019 and he won the league there. and I just think maybe he's slightly, there might be a tinge of underappreciation maybe, again I'm not saying Kieran Troop is the best right back England have ever had, I'm trying not to overrate him at the same time Lars but I think what he achieved this decade winning La Liga being a big part of the England squad which has reached two finals this decade and being a part of Newcastle United who have gone on to play Champions League football and won the League Cup as well.

22:39I think it's a difficult question, but yeah, I would say trips for Triggs question. There was this moment where he was linked with the move to Bayern to join Harry Kane and Eric Dier. Yes. And I really wish that had come off. Well, now you're talking. Just assembling a stag do in Bavaria by stealth. Let's just gradually getting them in. And Sir Gareth in charge at some point? Kebab. Oh, good Lord. Jim, who are you going to say for this? Well, it is a tricky one, isn't it? Because the nature of picking somebody from this decade and also the nature of them having to somewhat go under the radar when there's so much scrutiny on players now.

23:14But I think actually staying with Everton, James Tarkovsky has been quite underrated and it's been an absolutely integral part of seeing Everton through some really tricky, difficult times. I mean, if you look back to the 2-2 draw that Everton had with Liverpool last season, and he gets that late winner. Now, obviously, that's not the kind of be-all and end-all of his time there, or really what he's expected of him for most of his time. But it's a kind of example of what a leader he's been for them, and a reference point, again, for that whole team. He's absolutely solid. It felt right that he scored that goal.

23:47Absolutely. And he's a bit of a talisman there. But I think he's one of those players that people don't really appreciate quite how important he is to that team. Yeah. I mean, he also was a part of Burnley's teams that stayed in the Premier League longer than most people perhaps would have thought. I understand he gets relegated with them in his final season there and then goes to Everton. but yeah I think he's very much been a steady presence in what's been quite a chaotic time for Everton Lars in these last few seasons with manager changes and financial worries and so on I mean what would you think about James Kartowski to to the answer that question I actually want to talk about James Tchaikovsky in this segment and I have a very particular reason for that which is going a little bit into the weeds but bear with me um weeds won't forget I remembered this this morning and I looked up the stats to make sure I was sure.

24:42So in his two seasons in the championship with Brentford, hold on to your wigs and shoes. In his two seasons for Brentford in championship, James Tarkovsky was the center half in the championship who completed the most dribbles per game. Love that. This is true. Out of all the center halves in the championship, James Tarkovsky was like the dribbler supreme. I'm not saying there were many dribbles, but it was more than the other guys. So clearly I'd watch a ton of Brentford games at the time, but he must have been a player who stepped into midfield and was comfortable with the ball. They could have Franz Brentford-Bauer.

25:15Of course. But then, of course, when he makes his move from Brentford, he first goes to Burnley, is not a regular in their promotion season, but then wins the place, becomes a regular the next season in the Premier League, and then has a long career there. And because of the nature of the way Burnley play and the kind of coach Sean Dyche is, he becomes this kind of meat and potatoes defender who's very good at that. but because he does that thing he's never considered by the big clubs because they look around and they think oh well we need a defender who's a good passer who's comfortable with the ball and because his instructions was to not do that at all just get rid of it knock it long all this sort of stuff he never gets the big move after that and i remember when united signed harry mcguire i think i said at the time like i'm harry mcguire is fine but is he like 70 million like are we sure he's that much better than someone like James Tarkovsky and I kind of maintain if he had gone to a club where he had been encouraged to keep playing being a little bit more ball playing using his ability rather than sort of become this sort of dog of war combative uh win your 50s and get it away from here player I think he could have had a bigger move to a bigger club and I know Harry Maguire has become a kind of a figure of fun but but the guy's played 250 games from United and has 64 caps from England.

26:30That's not a bad career. And I don't think, in terms of ability, there's any reason why Tchaikovsky couldn't have had that career, really. It's just that football is a little bit about timing and luck in the moves you end up making. And I agree. I think he's been a very, very good player who's a little bit underrated. Do you think, and this is... I suppose I'm sort of crowbarring this one into the question because his best years were undoubtedly in the Bundesliga. Granit Xhaka? Yeah, I think that's a very good shout, actually. when you look at the full story of his time at Arsenal and the turnaround there, not just in terms of his relationship with the fans, but the exceptional increase in output and quality and how he managed to weather that.

27:14And then obviously, I think the Bundesliga is absolutely relevant because he's a player who's played here and then went to join not just any team, but this absolutely exceptional historic team, which he was a massive part of. One of the interesting things about that as well is that Arteta sort of changed his position a little bit at Arsenal when he started to thrive, moved him a little bit further forward. And everyone was like, this makes so much more sense. This actually suits his skill set and those brilliant kind of line-breaking passes that he's always been good at work really, really well there.

27:44And he goes to Leverkusen and he sort of kind of goes back a little bit deeper into midfield again in the position that everybody thought he was perhaps not at his best at. And he was exceptional there as well. so yeah I think Jack has a really good shout alright we could be here just starting naming players all day but I think we've answered your question there Triggs but also most Brentford players as well most Brentford players all the Danish dudes for Brentford in particular they seem to have just an unending supply of Danish guys who are just kind of there and are fine yeah I think we can all agree and Jordan Henderson right this is from Joe on email he's got into so he said Friday's chat about Bayern's Can Can got me thinking.

28:27Now, we were talking about them on the preview show with their Yabba Dabba Doo and then the Can Can goal music. Joe asks, if you were able to steal a song associated with another club, in brackets, could be a chant, walking out music, goal music, Pompey's chimes, etc., you were to steal it for your own club, which one would you pick? Personally, I'm extremely jealous of Newcastle United walking out of the tunnel to a theme from Local Hero by the great Mark Knopfler, which is a good one it is a good one it sends chills down the spine it's so good I wish we had something a quarter as good as that at Fulham well I would say Joe obviously you're familiar with Craven Cottage as I would be I quite like it at half time when they come out to London's calling by the clash yeah I think that's quite good although Arsenal play London calling as well there's a sense it's a little bit impersonal isn't there well maybe yeah I mean obviously Fulham are you know the original and best when it comes to London football clubs so Arsenal have stolen that probably but if I was to answer the question straight away I really do Lars I really do quite like is it Liquidator the Chelsea one oh yeah

29:38I suppose that is good yeah it is good isn't it I'm trying to sort of wipe off this Chelsea association in my mind but you are correct it is actually good yeah Vish and I were talking about the other day and Vish was like yeah it is really good Lars any particular chant or anything yeah that's the Fulham fan by the way saying that the Chelsea music is very good. I mean, that's a big thing. I do think... No cock energy, that isn't it? Lars, no doubt that you, as a Norway fan, because you're a Norwegian, that's how it works at the international level, you've gone local, you would probably love to steal three lines from us, wouldn't you?

30:10Because it's so brilliant. So you've... Actually, this is uncanny, because I was going to turn it over to international football. There you go. So you've read my mind there. But it isn't three lines. But I hate... Don't clip this. Not going on social media. I don't want to be associated with this. You don't have that power loss. God, the Swedes, man. The Swedish national team have a fantastic song. I hate to admit this. So last international break, a good friend of mine went away with the Swedish away fans because they were playing Slovenia in Kosovo. So somebody organized a small tour of that part of the world where they kind of went to both of the games and had a few drinks and had a lot of fun in a big bus.

30:49And I saw one of his stories on Instagram where they were all just going mad. but they were all just going mad in a nightclub in Eastern Europe singing one of the Swedish songs that go with the national team. And I just had to message him going, I obviously kind of hate you. I don't hate them. It's a very friendly rivalry, but I don't want to admit this, but that is an unbelievably good song. And it's the song they put out before the 1994 World Cup, which is probably why it has an even stronger nostalgia resonance for them because that was always a great tournament for Sweden. That's like one of the best times to be a Sweden fan.

31:24And the title is something like Narvi Gravik Gurli USA, like when we're going to the US to dig for gold. They got bronze. They weren't far off. It is an incredible sort of mid-90s pop anthem that is so well-written in the sort of, yeah, it's so catchy. It's absolutely tremendous, cheesy 90s nostalgia. And we have some good songs for our national team, Norway, as well, but we don't have anything that slaps quite so hard. So congratulations to Sweden. and that is very, very good. Yeah, I mean, it's not a chant or music or anything, but I am quite jealous for Sweden and Netherlands in particular, international level, because of the colours.

32:03Yeah. It really pops. Yeah, it really, really does. White is not good for that. No, it's not. There's an arrogance to the white. Do you know what I mean? It's more the flag. That's how it is, yeah. And absolutely, of course, you're right to point that out, but it does feel a bit Real Madrid for me, wearing white. It's like, you know, we are pure. We are the best. that's just how it I imagine that is how it can come across to other nations don't do it Dale in terms of international football I love the Icelandic thunderclap I thought that was boring oh really? I didn't like it I know because they're the beating it's not that's a bit basic well I don't think it is basic though we've never seen it before it was a new thing and I thought that was very cool the way that worked on a club level I really like Glad All Over the Palace song because it's got the claps in it so it's kind of got that little moment you like claps exactly yeah so I thought that was great but I think ultimately though you've got to do your own thing haven't you or you end up with a Poznan oh yeah it just if you've if you've clearly lifted something from another club it's just a bit lame yeah I don't don't take it too literally I'm not yeah from Joe you can play any of these tracks if you want you can turn up to an England game in a Neverland shirt if you want I wouldn't advise it no that's fair Alright, coming up after this one listener proposes a new World Cup format

33:28Dan has been in touch on email very traditional he says Hi team, I get why the idea of a 64 team World Cup winds people up more groups, more games less jeopardy for the big nations FIFA greed at work, etc but it got me thinking if the World Cup didn't exist at all and we had the chance to design it from scratch wouldn't the most World Cup version of a World Cup be something closer to the FA Cup? A genuine global knockout where every FIFA member nation, 200 odd of them, not just 64, is in from the start and maybe the higher ranked teams only enter in later rounds. It would be once every four years, but instead of years of pre-qualification and bloated group stages, you'd get pure jeopardy, proper cup magic and the genuine possibility of shocks.

34:07Fewer games overall, but a much better spectacle. Of course, FIFA would hate it, less money to be made, but as a sporting concept, it feels like the most authentic world competition we could have. Let's ignore the logistical issues. I can't curious to hear what you think maybe you'll still hate it I tell you what I admire that Dan forget about that bit can you imagine in the 1930s when the World Cup comes along you travel what how many weeks on the boat but that's the whole point of Dan's question though isn't it is to disregard all that stuff and think about it as a spectacle for the viewer and I do think it's quite an interesting thing well but the spectacle for the viewer is We spoke about this when Euro 2020 was across lots of different countries.

34:53Now, I don't think it was, I mean, obviously, the way it worked out with COVID and lockdown and all that. But I didn't think it was the disaster that maybe we thought it was going to be. But there is something nice about having a tournament in one place, I think. So that goes out the window. Does it go out the window? Presumably it's being hosted in one place. Well, not necessarily. Well, but he hasn't specified that it isn't. well okay so alright let's ignore the logistics then I think that it would be an incredible spectacle to begin with I wonder if it would get a bit old I just I think I think that there's I mean he's getting rid of qualification presumably then yeah everyone's just going all in yeah I just think that for a lot of people I think it's just not enough games like you go out in the first round and that's not saying that as one of the bigger nations.

35:50The thing is, with qualification, if people find it boring or they don't find it boring, you are going to play a certain amount of games. And I think that's important for teams. And that can build a fan base and that can do all that. We come at that as England fans. Obviously, Lars isn't, so I'm interested in his take. But as England fans, you come at that and think, well you know qualification England should breeze through or whatever but most countries don't think like that so I think those games are important and then when you get to the tournament with this 48 team World Cup I understand that you know we do have three games guaranteed there was chat that it was only going to be two games guaranteed and that felt a bit thin on the ground for me and I would feel sorry for teams if they didn't get to have to watch their team at a World Cup three times but the idea of you know I just think look at the Euros as well when people say well you got a 24 team Euros people say well when it was a 16 team Euros every game was fiercely and keenly contested you know Germany against you know Fiji Fiji do you know what I mean like the Marshall Islands or whatever I'm sorry but like you would have to wait a long time sometimes with like the Europa League or even the Conference League sometimes you've got to wait a bit this is exactly what it would be like wouldn't it certainly sort of the old format of the Europa League in particular where it actually started to get really good later on.

37:11I mean, yes, you could have a shot. Because obviously the cream rises. But I think that is going to be the case, isn't it? Named out of a hat, yeah. You know, when you got, what was it, Portsmouth v Cardiff in the FA Cup final, there is a possibility for, you know, Mozambique v Australia in a World Cup final. Yeah, when there isn't. Even with this format, there just absolutely isn't. But I think, I do think it would get, it would become really fun as it got going. And it would be interesting, wouldn't it? Certainly as a one-off. I think you know if you look at the last World Cup obviously Argentina going to win it they lost their opening game against Saudi Arabia so in this format they'd be gone and that Spain 2010 gone yeah exactly that would be quite fun in its own way because the groups give a level of security to the stronger nations right because if they do make a misstep early on they've got a couple of opportunities to put it right so how many games have you got to play?

38:00that's a lot logistics out the way how many games have you got to win to get to the final? like this is just But for that reason though, right, the team that won it, you have to say, well, I mean, fair enough. Like you really have to, you are, by the end of that tournament, you've got arrows sticking out of you. Your shield is bludgeoned to pieces. You are bleeding from everywhere, but you are holding that trophy a lot. And every single player has to retire through exhaustion or something. Lars, what do you reckon? So I can't stop thinking about logistics. I think if we were doing this and we had to assemble.

38:31No, that's the thing. No, no, no, no. I'm just saying if we had to assemble 200 international squad in one country, let's assume there's a place that can accommodate that. I would want there to be a blind draw for who gets what hotels. So like it's, it's just completely random. Yeah. No, no, no, all the hotels are just drafted in and say, you will have to host a squad. And then it'll be, it can be a huge, like draw draft day event where you draw, like this, this team gets to go to the Hilton. And that's like, Oh, well, Fiji, you've gone to the Hilton that's good for you guys but then we get to like Brazil as I are you're off to the abyss you know that's slightly unfortunate for you but then you get to like Germany maybe someone has to go to like a hostel and it'll just be they have to sleep in bunks and share a toilet and that would add an element of jeopardy to proceedings imagine the fallouts you'd have if the friend squad had to like stay in a hostel that'd be true I would love that yeah I mean when you're saying that you know that the hotel should be in the drawer and all the rest of it you said where would this tournament be played trump's america is your answer where it's going to be well no because there you probably do have 200 nice hotels so that's a very bad example what you need is a country that only has like two or three like send them to arminia or something like that that'd be great just to see what happens well dan you've certainly got us talking on that one yeah um call me a traditionalist i i think the idea has not got legs but there we are right uh we're going to finish with this question from friend of the ramble for to slay on discord one for you Jim are Norway finally making themselves the team they should be with their squad they're currently top of their group for World Cup qualification six points ahead of Italy who have a game in hand what do you reckon Jim?

40:12Yeah if I can just take the lead on this one just whack it to the big light up top I think that'd be alright that's all we've got time for everybody so if I can sort of redirect a question to Lars obviously we know that Norway have some outstanding forward players that we're all very, very familiar with. But to the sort of more casual observer of Norway's international qualities, I'm not really familiar with more of their defensive players. And how do you feel about the national team on that side? Because we all know about the attacking talent, which I'm sure we'll come on to. No, you've very much hit the nail on the head there.

40:48I mean, I have been on so many radio shows and podcasts and been asked to explain why on earth this team isn't qualifying for tournaments because they have Holland, they have Odega. But the thing is, it's a strong generation for a small country, don't get me wrong. It's incredible to have the best goal scorer in the Premier League, possibly the world, one of the best playmakers in the Premier League. That's wild when you're a country of five million people. Like that's not going to happen again in my lifetime. So I just have to appreciate that. But it's an uneven generation. Like we have played with this group.

41:15We played a playoff game in Serbia. That was a playoff for the Euros, Euro 22. It was back in 2020. Anyway, it was a playoff finally in Serbia in which we had a guy who started who was without a club. Our left back was just not with a club at the moment. So you had in the same lineup in an absolutely crucial game. Yeah. Aling Haaland, Martin Ergo, an unemployed man, which is like, OK, that gives us that can happen. There's no shame in being temporarily, you know, without an income. It can happen to anyone. But it just kind of illustrates where we've been at at times. It definitely has been. I've just been searching the job center for, uh, I mean, you know, so, so this is the thing.

41:55So the, the, the, the big change now, what they, what the, what the guys in the squad are saying is that they've had a change of attitude in the last year. They've become, uh, they've had a change of the way they communicate internally. They're a bit harsher with each other. There's less kindness. People dig each other out a little bit more and people take more responsibility. But I also just think we've found defenders, uh, who are a little bit more capable than, than what we've had before. and the big issue is finding a balance where because yeah you've got two of the best players are Aling Holon and Alex Solot so you've got the big man big man combo up front that you have to solve somehow what a horrendous time to be Morgan Strand Larson of all the luck it's just annoying isn't it it gets 70 caps in any other generation it's like when Slovenia had two of the best keepers in the continent come on can one of you play a centre half it is unfortunate for him but yeah and then you also have to find a position like because you may you might be tempted to play 4-4-2 because of those two guys but where does martin ödegar play in a 4-4-2 formation that kind of doesn't work so it's like finding the diamond yeah exactly well yeah and you know what in there so that was stolz solbuck in the coach his first ever game coaching norway he tried the midfield diamond and it was a little bit of a disaster so it's one of those things i think he really wants to try to make it work because it would make a lot of sense but it never really seems to work we played sort of 4-3-3 against Italy in that incredibly important 3-0 win so cathartic for the whole group and yeah got Spalletti fired we beat them so hard they fired the coach always good uh but in that game the way they made it work was by basically telling Alex Serlot like we're really sorry Alex we're gonna have to sacrifice for the team here so he played right wing and worked unbelievably hard for a tall center forward who's not 21 years old uh just we're running up and down the flank out of possession all game and still getting into the box to be a threat.

43:44It's a challenge for a left-back, that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because he is also huge. But that's what they're going to have to do, Lars, aren't they? I mean, as Thierry Henry said to Gary Neville, Linney and Wright and Rod Keenan Co., you know, when he played for Barcelona, he wasn't the main man. He was kind of farmed out wide and just told to stay out there. And he said, you know, I may not be the main man, but I'm still in the band. You know, liken it to being Michael, one club, and then Tito, Jackson 5, the next. You and I were at the 2009 Champions League final, so we saw this close up Henri's job was essentially confuse Rio Ferdinand which on a football pitch is a lot harder than it is off of it yeah yeah we could have taken care of it off the pitch offered up very confusing bits of trivia during breaks in play but look fun fact it does seem interesting because if you look at their history of qualifying for tournaments we can discard the 1938 round of 16 finish in the World Cup and move on to the 90s and the noughties because they qualify for the World Cup in 94, of course, qualify for the World Cup in 98 and qualify for the Euros in 2000.

44:50So they were doing all right around then. We haven't seen them at a major tournament since Euro 2000, which is surprising considered. I mean, whatever, you know, is World Cup qualification easier or harder than it was? I understand for a nation like Norway, you've mentioned of 5 million people. I think it's very difficult to qualify for a World Cup. I think, you know, if you're in with France or one of the big boys. It's very, very difficult. But the Euros have been an expanded tournament. We've seen Scotland there twice. We've seen Northern Ireland since this expanded tournament. At some point, surely, this is, I'm not going to say golden generation because that would be stupid, but there must be expectation in Norway.

45:30Yeah, I mean, we have Scotland to thank for the fact that we weren't in the last Euros. That was them sort of briefly morphing into a very good team in the summer of 23 and then immediately turning back into a pumpkin afterwards after they'd completely screwed our qualification campaign thank you scotland we appreciate that no that was um yeah we screwed up away to to georgia as well we yeah like i said it's a generation this group that has the best players are incredible our erling holland and mark no the goal are probably our two best players of all time like i mean it's early to say that in their careers but I will be very surprised if in sort of five, six years when they're both in their 30s then that it's not a clear case of them being our best two footballers ever.

46:12But we have had issues filling out the rest of the team and we have had issues finding the correct balance between them two, Alex Solot, who's also very good and now the super exciting Noosa, the winger, who's so, so sparkling at times as well. So it is a challenge for the coach, Solbaken. I think he's the right guy. He's been under pressure. I believe he's the best coach with a Norwegian passport out there, which is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer catching strays, I guess, but there we go. And I'm happy that he is in the job still, and I'm so glad he's had this sort of cathartic run of results now. I'm feeling very positive about the team in a way I haven't for many, many years.

46:48So it's cool right now. But it is really the answer to the question is, yes, I think they're finally going to be good. And I think the reason is they're starting to find solutions to the issues that they've been struggling with for a few years. thank you for listening to the Football Ramble part of the Acast Creator Network and thank you Lars Simonson for joining us what a treat that was so good thanks for having me very much appreciated and keep on producing the good content oh bless you sir Jim you're back tomorrow with Luke and Vish I am where you'll be looking ahead to the international break yes and please do send us your responses opinions and questions for next week's mailbag and subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts it's been a pleasure the boys will see you tomorrow

47:36The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.