Mailbag: Can multi-club ownership be defended?

0:00Luke Moore: Hello everybody, welcome to the Football Ramble Mailbag. Multi-club ownership, football swan songs and the highs and lows of modern football are the orders of the day. It's Tuesday 24th of February, I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm Vishaal Seshadri.

0:24Luke Moore: Oh, hello everybody. It's Mailbag time. the show that is in your hands. Your grubby little mitts are all over this show. Get in touch on XBlueSky or Instagram at Football Ramble. Comment on YouTube or email us, show at footballramble.com. And of course, friends of the Ramble, you get priority. We give you Luke Moore's address. You can go around there in person. You can ask him yourself. Come around whenever you want. Exactly. Make sure, though, that he's got a dressing gown on at the time. Patreon.com forward slash Football Ramble or sign up on YouTube to get that address. Now, let's start with this.

1:00Luke Moore: From Alan Walton, who emailed us.

1:03Vishaal Seshadri: Alan Walton's name makes him sound like he's at least 65 years old.

1:07Luke Moore: Yes, and he's on a boat. And he's called Alan Walton on Thames. Yeah, fine. Thank you. Now, Alan says this.

1:16Vishaal Seshadri: Otherwise, we wouldn't get on with the show, would we? Don't sign that off, though, because it gives him carte blanche. He's already said Feb in the intro because he couldn't fit February in.

1:24Luke Moore: I'm having a go at a brilliant intro. It took one take and Vish went slightly too early with his name because he didn't trust me and that annoyed me.

1:31Vishaal Seshadri: That is, Vish, that is disrespectful. Don't look at me, Vish. That's disrespectful to a fellow broadcaster, that.

1:36Luke Moore: And a fellow pro and legend. Yeah. Now, we've seen, Alan asks this, we've seen Blueco, the Red Bull franchise, the Citigroup, Tony Bloom's Empire and the Pozzo Group. Most of them have, in my lowly opinion, pillaged the resources of lowly clubs for the benefit of a bigger one. The most recent example being Strasbourg and their manager and captain to Chelsea. But is there a case for the defence, says Alan as he turncoats. Red Bull have helped create arguably two of the best players in the world in Dominic Sabozlai and Erling Haaland. And they are dedicated to producing not only the best football, but the best players and coaches in the world.

2:15Luke Moore: Alan's having a bit of a crisis on this one, I feel. He's like, I don't like it, but you know, Sabozlai can hit them. What do you think, Luke Moore?

2:23Vishaal Seshadri: I think it's a very generous second paragraph of the question, is what I think. Is there a case for a defence? Because a couple of good players have been there and they're dedicated to producing not only the best football, but the best players in court. Are they? I mean, is that really what's happening?

2:37Luke Moore: They work tirelessly for the game.

2:40Marcus Speller: His email address is alan.walton at rb.co.uk.

2:44Luke Moore: Jürgen Klopp works for Red Bull now. He's not going to work for a bunch of charlatans, is he?

2:49Vishaal Seshadri: Well, I think that's why a lot of people were upset with Klopp. They were.

2:52Luke Moore: for taking that job

2:53Marcus Speller: isn't it but look at his tash

2:55Vishaal Seshadri: I think

2:56Marcus Speller: yeah it's fine all's forgiven don't worry about it

2:59Vishaal Seshadri: I have to say I have to say it's an outstanding moustache I don't think you can separate everyone has their price sometimes one has to separate the art from the artist don't they you know and in that case Jürgen okay

3:11Luke Moore: I mean look at the horrors of the 20th century in war some of those generals tashes

3:16Vishaal Seshadri: oh absolutely

3:17Luke Moore: you know

3:18Vishaal Seshadri: when you see a man who doesn't let anything come between him and his calibre yeah Which is a reference you should get. Oh, yeah. Do you get it? Billy Connolly. Yes. The Billy Connolly advert for Caliber non-alcoholic beer back in the 80s. Oh, right. He pulls his famous moustache off to drink the Caliber and says, I don't let anything get between me and my Caliber. And then he says, don't live a little, live a lotto. That was later. Much later. Caliber walked so Lotto could run. There you go. That's what I'm saying.

3:44Luke Moore: Yeah. So I think that answers your question. I think so, yeah.

3:47Vishaal Seshadri: Look, I understand why they're all being bracketed together. Oh. The principle of it is the same, but I do think that when you break it down to the detail, these different multi-club owners are probably doing it for different reasons, right? I think that's fair to say. So the Citigroup are doing it for different reasons to say the Red Bull franchise are, but the thing that unites them and the reason it's okay to talk about them together, in my view, is because they are unified by a commonality, I suppose, which is that probably the football is secondary, right? The football becomes a vehicle, a means to an end.

4:25Vishaal Seshadri: Now, in Red Bull's case, it's a way for them to market products in a more effective and innovative way. In the city group's way, it's to do with geopolitics, with Blueco, probably a bit of the same, but finances as well. And ultimately, the reason I think in their gut, people are against these things, before we even get into the conflict of interest, the issues and the problems, it's because it's not to do with football. Football becomes a market opportunity for their own reasons. And that's not aligned with fans of clubs and people who love football and to an extent as well, you know, players too, who are, as we forget, very dedicated to their craft and want to play as best they can and achieve things.

5:10Vishaal Seshadri: And, you know, I can give you examples of why that's a problem. but ultimately the fact that some good things come out of it i don't think is a defense and it's a justification and you can say that about lots of different things in life that oh you know this is obviously objectively terrible for all these different reasons but oh well at least we get that and that that that doesn't make it justifiable without without going into very

5:39Luke Moore: very unnecessary territory it's the trains run on time exactly it's that exact principle yeah it's

5:43Vishaal Seshadri: exact principle. So look, I don't think there is a case for the defence. We can go into more detail if you like about how, you know, why say Red Bull are doing what they're doing and if you look at, and we know it's to sell products and to give themselves massive brand awareness for Red Bull, who I think are the third biggest, according to something I read earlier, the third biggest soft drinks manufacturer in the world. Of course, they'd like to be the first. This is a means to their end.

6:06Luke Moore: We're a monster in this.

6:07Vishaal Seshadri: Not sure. I think they're below them. Caramel? I would imagine the little known Coca-Cola above them.

6:12Luke Moore: But do you not feel though, Can I just finish the point real quick? Okay, yeah, please do. Because they've done it,

6:16Vishaal Seshadri: I just wanted to say they've done it in other sports. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what I would urge people to remember is when Red Bull first started out on this project under their now deceased owner, they essentially ran roughshod over a lot of history, a lot of people's identity with a club in Austria who they then changed everything about. They changed the kit colour, they changed the identity, they changed everything really without really a buy or leave to the fans and the people who've been around that club for a long time. And that is the root of why you still get lots of German clubs fans who are nothing to do with Red Bull protesting about them all the time because in Germany they're particularly keen for this stuff to not happen.

7:12Vishaal Seshadri: So, yeah, be careful when you're defending this stuff because Dominic Sabozla is a good player. That's what I would say.

7:18Luke Moore: I don't mean to be fair, not that you were saying this, but Alan did say, is there a case for the defence? He said, you know... I've got my beef with Alan personally. Yeah, no, indeed, yeah. He says that, you know, in his opinion, they've pillaged the resources of lower club and he's saying, well, is there... Because this happens, right? But as you sort of mentioned earlier, you very seldom get stuff that is 100 % all bad because it would be so blatant and so obvious. I mean, let's take Strasbourg as an example. A recent one, obviously, with Liam Rosinia going from there to Chelsea. And the BBC did an article about this saying, you know, our fans are being turned off multi-club ownership models.

7:57Luke Moore: And in that, they highlighted the fact that before Bowley and Clear Lake Capital owned Blueco and took control in 2023, the club's total transfer fees paid out per season were 6.1 million, 3.9 million and 9.5 million. In the following three seasons, Strasbourg have spent 52.6 million, 53.6 million and 96.5 million. They were the biggest spending club in France last summer and spent more than PSG. So there's the sweetener. You can see that more money is flowing into there. for me though as you saw when they kind of go right well we'll have Liam Rosini now thanks very much sorry what it is you know you dance with the devil sort of stuff you know you are you you are being bought off essentially

8:48Vishaal Seshadri: and the big the big key issue which a journalist should have asked in Liam Rosini's first press conference at Chelsea it should have asked him directly and I can't remember if the owner or one of the representatives of the owner was at the press conference as well if they were it should have asked him as well if Liam Racine said he didn't want to take this job what would have happened? The journalistic responsibility was to ask that question which wasn't asked which cuts to the very crux of why multi-club ownership is problematic because in terms of spending money on players I mean that's a problem that's not actually specific to multi-club owners we've seen club owners come in that have only owned one club and completely financially doped the league before that can happen whether it's multi-club ownership or not the main problem of multi-cup ownership when people listen to this or they watch it or they watch football they hear these conversations about why it's a problem it's important to kind of drill down to the detail of what we mean by that and it comes down to as I've said the football not being the primary concern when decisions are being made

9:49Luke Moore: yeah you could I mean it's a question of sort of autonomy and sort of freedom of choice and decision making at the football club and how much of the can I give you another one

9:57Vishaal Seshadri: can I give you another example because Vish hasn't said anything yet let me just give you one more

10:00Luke Moore: well I was going to make a different point actually because the question was is there a case for the defense and we've talked basically no there isn't but my my response to that was well the case for the defense is you know on a case-by-case basis i mean if you look at the city group you know they they own you know clubs around the world yes the case for the defense would be and again you can use plenty of political examples with this but we won't you know go there um yeah they put money into a football club well that local area there's a little bit more capital there's you know maybe a few more people get employed.

10:32Luke Moore: Certain players play for that team and often, not all multi-club ownership models, but some of them are all kind of ultimately trying to funnel players from all these clubs to the big club at the top, which will be a European club, you know, nine times out of ten. So the defence would be, sometimes you will get a player come through that you may well find that perhaps previously you wouldn't do because the club is a local club in somewhere like Bolivia or whatever, not huge standing, etc, etc. but I think these kind of cases for the defence are ultimately quite flimsy

11:02Marcus Speller: yeah because they're not football is and always will be because there's so much money in it a meritocratic sport so yeah you say about that kid in Bolivia probably would come through actually because if he was that much better than everyone there would be someone really early on in the chain who would who would but if there was a bigger club there with a bigger academy but they're also let's not pretend that they're doing this for safety net purposes. The reason they're scouring, or they're having different bases in different parts of the world is because it is lucrative for them to do that. Of course.

11:39Marcus Speller: To find that kid from Bolivia and make money off him. But like I say... I don't think we're ever going to get... I don't think we've got more talent because of things like this.

11:48Luke Moore: And again, I think the case would be very flimsy for that sort of argument. And I think, again, to try and be as broad about this as possible maybe, there will be people in other parts of the world who wouldn't have a European-centric view like we do and would see it in a much more kind of local sense. You know, well, it's a bit like the despot leader who comes in and we go, well, the guy's a nutter and he's doing this, that, and the other and the people go, yeah, but now we have, our streets have lighting because of him. Do you know what I mean? Like, again, how are you looking at this? How are you seeing it?

12:15Luke Moore: I think ultimately though, as I said moments earlier, the case with the defence is very, very flimsy but of course, very few things are 100 % or bad because if they were then this would just be shot to pieces and people just simply wouldn't stand for it. So like with the example of Strasbourg spending a lot more money than they previously have you have to give them a sweetener if you're these multi-club ownership these companies who are doing this model because otherwise it would be so blatant it would be ridiculous.

12:43Vishaal Seshadri: The other thing we haven't talked about which is a complete scandal and it's something that doesn't seem to be a conversation of hot potato at the moment for whatever reason, although it was a while back with someone like Mike Ashley, is that it is clearly absolutely farcical that Tony Bloom, for example, owns, or at least part-owned, Brighton, Hearts, Union Central War, who are all feasibly at some point going to play each other in European competition. And we had this with Palace this season, the chat was Textor. Exactly. The Textor thing was a really good example. I mean, these are not difficult decisions when it comes to administration and safeguarding of the sport.

13:27Vishaal Seshadri: They're just being, the sport is just being let down by decision makers at the top of the game, as ever, because they don't want to have difficult conversations. They don't want to front up to really wealthy, powerful people and say, you're not doing that. They find ways around it. You know, in the case of FIFA, obviously, Ian Fancino is far more interested in being some kind of political figure and feathering his own nest for whatever comes next for him than he is actually administering the game. And UEFA have let down football clubs, which exist as community resources, as focal points for our entire communities, with this shit.

14:01Vishaal Seshadri: There's no way, there's no meaningful way whatsoever that that situation with Textor should have happened. The reason it happened was because of failure of governance. Because no one wanted to have a difficult conversation about it. So there are just so many reasons why it's a bad idea that the stuff that comes up about, you know, incidental positives that come off the back of it, they're not even really worth talking about.

14:24Marcus Speller: I have been surprised at no point. I mean, I suppose it's just about when it comes to the fore and has to be addressed that people address it, which is the Palace example. But Girona were in the Champions League, you know, proper comp in 24, 25. What would have happened if they were drawn against City? Or would they have...

14:46Luke Moore: Man City would have won.

14:48Marcus Speller: They are. Little prediction for you. But would they have, you know, would UEFA have gone into that draw thinking, well, they can't play each other?

14:56Luke Moore: Well, I think this is where UEFA, they've sort of just hoped that these things won't happen. My worry is that Sir Jim Ratcliffe and people like that are colonising other football clubs. But there we are.

15:06Marcus Speller: Yeah.

15:08Luke Moore: I think we've answered your question there, Alan. So, Alan, stick to your guns. Go with your gut. It's not a good idea. Okay. Right, coming up after this, some nice things about modern football.

15:29Vishaal Seshadri: All right, coming back with a bit more of a continental flavour with the excellently named Paolo on Discord. It just means Paul, mate. It's just Paul. It's just Portuguese Paul. Yeah. Portuguese Paul. Yeah. P squared. It's been in touch on Discord. It's been from you, Marco. Yeah. Yeah. Marco, what would you be? Visho. It's a bit more Aussie, that. Visho is very Aussie. Yeah, very Aussie. Paolo asks this, what excites you guys and disappoints you as well most about modern football? Let's do as much on excites. Didn't need the sound effects. Used the box. Didn't need the sound effects, Marcus, but let's do as much on what excites us as on what disappoints us to make it even because it's easy to have a moan.

16:13Luke Moore: Damn right. Vish, what excites you about modern football? Tell us! Do it! Give him a ding if you agree with it.

16:21Marcus Speller: I suppose more ball players across the pitch?

16:24Luke Moore: Surely, man, United coming back.

16:29Vishaal Seshadri: Vish, you've had these questions in advance, so do better than that.

16:32Marcus Speller: That's literally it. That's it, that's all it is.

16:35Vishaal Seshadri: I'm more footballers.

16:38Luke Moore: He loves more footballers. Do you know what excites me? Multi-club ownership. It disappoints me.

16:43Marcus Speller: fewer footballers yeah more technically proficient footballers so you get better moves and everyone everyone can play so you're more likely to get a Murillo someone having a banger after a long run from centre back across the board I feel like the the quality and standard of football is higher I think that's fair I think that's fair the technical side of it but people are moaning though the thing is you don't sound that excited yeah I was going to say no I do but I just how many times am I going to get interrupted for that you sounded like

17:08Luke Moore: the Premier League had you at gunpoint there yeah

17:10Marcus Speller: no no not the Premier League That's what I'm saying. However they're used in different ways is not beholden to me. I think the good thing about it is the standard of footballer is higher now across the board, even when you go further down.

17:25Luke Moore: But what disappoints you is, would it be also, because you could have this as well, that a lot of people are sort of bemoaning the fact that maybe you, we say the word maverick, I think it's a bit of a wanky term sometimes, but you're mavericks or those players who actually really excite people, individual talents and so on are not as plentiful as perhaps they were a number of years ago. A lot of people have been having this conversation.

17:51Marcus Speller: Because the stakes are much higher and so

17:53Luke Moore: And systems as well are much more

17:55Marcus Speller: Well the stakes are much higher so people want more controlling games which is why you get Sheer Mavericks Yes.

18:01Luke Moore: So I get what your point is totally about what excites you in terms. But would you also have the disappointment?

18:07Marcus Speller: Yeah, that was my answer

18:08Vishaal Seshadri: about the disappointment. There you are, you see we got him the thing that excites me most about modern football is Mr. Maranacus' ownership of Nottingham Forest

18:15Luke Moore: it's a good one that is good multi-club innit

18:18Vishaal Seshadri: and the thing that disappoints me most about modern football is when we thought Morgan Gibbs White perhaps was going to leave yeah yeah

18:27Luke Moore: yeah do you know I tell you what disappoints me a bit about modern football

18:32Marcus Speller: is it what we jacks come on

18:36Luke Moore: come on that's naughty I've always very happy to see

18:40Marcus Speller: Monday show if you're confused by that I'm always very happy

18:42Luke Moore: to see Rory I like the man very much yeah you know often more than you keep saying it

18:46Vishaal Seshadri: keep saying it

18:47Luke Moore: put it

18:48Marcus Speller: in the other section then

18:51Luke Moore: right

18:54Luke Moore: what I disappoints me about football is when you talk about the systems and so on I don't know if we're coming away from this and whatnot but it is I feel that there has been a little bit of lack of long range shooting sometimes. Not on Ashton Villa's watch. And Villa was very much that excited me. Not on Dominic Sabozla's watch. Exactly. That gets me going. But with wingers when they go down I'll check back in and we'll keep possession. Like I said I don't think it's as bad. It's not as bad now. Yeah.

19:22Vishaal Seshadri: Definitely not. A couple of years ago it was terrible.

19:24Luke Moore: But indeed but also as well sometimes maybe it's like the lack of number nines as well that disappoints me as well. Hashtag strikers union. You know like it's that's why I love Jokeres you know he's one of us. is there a lack

19:37Vishaal Seshadri: of number nines

19:37Luke Moore: yes really that's why Jockers was as much as he was is Erling Haaland

19:41Vishaal Seshadri: number nine yeah is it Harry Kane number nine he's trying not to be now he's trying not to be has Cristiano Ronaldo won for the last few years Ronaldo there's loads of them mate you've mentioned four yeah the top the top scorers in the game's fucking history in the history of it well Messi's not a number nine he's pretty prominent I don't think we're looking around trying to find one that's not a

20:01Luke Moore: Struckers are at a premium

20:02Vishaal Seshadri: what are you talking about of course they're at a premium

20:03Luke Moore: he goes Thiago number nine there's other reasons for their Eka Tico yeah and that's exciting me coming back it's disappointing me that there's not as many but there's the excitement that's creeping back in you see

20:14Vishaal Seshadri: I'm just telling you there's reasons strikers are at a premium it's not just because it's not necessarily because there's not many of them it's because they score

20:21Luke Moore: loads of goals fine the thing that excites me about modern football is the fact that Fulham are setting a trend on having a hot tub in the stadium there we go and I think that it'll be rolled out a lot more across the ground

20:31Vishaal Seshadri: relax metaphorically into a lovely conversational hot tub Marcus because that's what you've done there. Very meta, that answer.

20:37Luke Moore: And I've left the door open for you to A, pop into the hot tub, and B, give your answer.

20:42Vishaal Seshadri: I told you, Mr. Maranac is one I'm most excited about, and the thing that disappoints me most about modern football is Rory Jennings. Oh, my goodness. Vish, next question. Sorry, Paolo. The next question. I think we failed if we don't have to apologise to the questioner after every single answer. Yeah, 100%, yeah.

20:59Marcus Speller: Like the Oracle used to. This one comes from Instagram via Craig Copsey. I hope I almost certainly pronounced that incorrectly. I'll go on Copsey. I'll say Copsey as well. Craig Copsey then. Go on, cop out. The Premier League title would obviously be a great achievement for Arsenal, but given the inconsistency elsewhere in the league, and even around Europe, would not winning another trophy on top of that mean this is a disappointing season? Now, lots of people have asked us about this. Listener Frank Gowan asked if Arteta should be sacked if Arsenal fail to win anything else this season. Sorry, fail to win anything this season.

21:31Marcus Speller: Arsenal play in the Carabao Cup final at the end of March obviously they are in the fifth round of the FA Cup and they are also through in the Champions League yeah

21:41Luke Moore: yeah a lot of people asking us about Arsenal

21:43Vishaal Seshadri: so there's been a lot of Arsenal chat recently because yeah because Mark but as Marcus says we get a lot of questions about Arsenal yeah I think it's because there are it's a combination of Arsenal fans being really excited but worried a load of non-Arsenal fans wanting to derail them also worried yeah but worried for very different reasons

21:58Luke Moore: it's a strange one with Arsenal this season because I don't think I've I don't think there's ever been such fanfare from, well not fanfare well that but such noise from neutral fans around this saying it would be very funny if they finished second again for example and Arsenal fans the only other time there was such fanfare was when Leicester went on the run but that was people going I can't believe what's happening this is outrageous come on you can do it whereas other Premier League titles it's been again, you know, teams who have won it before or you expect them to do well and so on. Whereas this time round, there's so much chat, isn't there, about can Arsenal do it?

22:38Luke Moore: Can they get over the line? Can they get over the line? And I think that's probably what's a lot of this season has captured the thoughts and imaginations of Arsenal fans and non-Arsenal fans.

22:49Vishaal Seshadri: Is it the hearts and minds, would you say? Would you even say the hearts and minds?

22:51Luke Moore: I think that the heart and the brain have not unified as Arteta would like. Not yet. I think the brains are there. The hearts may well follow. but they're going to win the league of course they're doing their yeah

23:04Vishaal Seshadri: partly thanks to Tony Bloom yes

23:06Luke Moore: God bless him

23:06Vishaal Seshadri: I think it's fanciful to suggest that they should they it wouldn't be as great an achievement if they just won the league this season you've got to think about the context oh I don't know ask them if won come on if Arsenal just won the league this season they don't give a shit about anything else yeah

23:22Luke Moore: I thought you said it would be a disappointing season if they just won

23:25Vishaal Seshadri: no I think it's fanciful to suggest that I said oh yes that's what the question is implying. I agree with you, yeah. Yeah, so Arsenal haven't won the league since, what, 2004, is it? I think it's 2004. So 22 years, right? It's like when Liverpool didn't win it for that long. Yeah. It doesn't matter. The only thing that matters to them now is a league title. Now, it's slightly different for Arsenal because they've not had Champions League success. But the thing then, I would even go as far as to say the thing they are solely focused on would be the league and everything else is kind of a nice bonus.

23:54Vishaal Seshadri: And you don't have to take my word for that. That's basically why the chat is so heavy and while the pressure's so high, partly informed by some of the things that Arteta's saying, right? They, of course, want to win the league. I don't think that Arteta should be sacked if they don't win anything this season. I agree with you. But I do think that at some point a conversation needs to be had about whether he is the guy to get it done. And I don't think you are diminishing his contribution if you say, okay, it's time for us to find the next guy who can actually build on this work. Almost like a Gerard Houllier World Cup 98 type thing because he's absolutely restored them to no longer a laughing stock.

24:39Vishaal Seshadri: He's picked over the ruins of what Wenger left go to Racken Ruin basically and rebuilt it. But, you know, the person who builds the cathedral doesn't necessarily put the spire on top, right? That's an analogy I've just made up. I get what you're saying. So there may be a conversation about that to be had, but we don't know yet because they're still in pole position to win the league. I personally think they'll fall just short. Marcus, you think they'll win it? Let's see what happens. I think the conversation about Arteta in that way is probably celebrit premature.

25:11Luke Moore: I think the only way that they would make it a successful season if they didn't win the league would be winning the Champions League. Yeah. And maybe if they won the League Cup and the FA Cup, so you know, we get into, you know, a bit unnecessary chat here. But if they were to win a couple of trophies, but even then I still think people go, yeah, there would still be that monkey on their back.

25:35Vishaal Seshadri: I think Champions League, yes. FA Cup and League Cup together, no.

25:38Luke Moore: Yeah. I think it would be a successful season to a point. But the fact is, it's a bit like Liverpool last season when people said, oh, was it ultimately an underwhelming season? Because the way they were playing up until that loss against PSG in the Champions League, it was, you know, talk of the quadruple and all this sort of stuff. And it's like, well, your number one priority, unless you're Real Madrid, is to win your domestic league. I know there's the odd little quirk here and there of...

26:02Vishaal Seshadri: Like United, when they kept winning the league and were desperate to get the Champions League.

26:05Luke Moore: Yeah, so there's the odd little quirk of a team who are desperate. Say like, if PSG had not won Ligue 1 and they won the Champions League. Again, other than very specific circumstances and clubs, your number one priority is to win your domestic league. Liverpool did that last season. So therefore, it can't be seen as an underwhelming season.

26:19Vishaal Seshadri: With Arsenal, though...

26:20Luke Moore: So Arsenal, it's all about the Premier League.

26:22Vishaal Seshadri: Yeah, and you can boil it down even more than that. You can say the reason that it's most important for Arsenal to win the Premier League is because everything they say and everything they do has been geared up to that. Because they've decided that. It's their agenda, it's not ours. You win the league title, you're the best team in the league.

26:39Luke Moore: And to be the best team in a Premier League season is an incredible achievement. We know how difficult it is in the Premier League. The Champions League, yeah, often the best team wins it, but not always. As Liverpool themselves know in 2005. you know like it's a cup competition so there's you know you can get a lucky punch here and there and what not worthy winners of course under Klopp and you know wonderful celebration and da da da da da a league title though it's it's even though you're not the champions of Europe the champions of England there is still I think you can argue on a lot of points there's more merit in it

27:14Vishaal Seshadri: to drill down to Frank's part of the question about Arteta losing his job to me it would be they either win the league this season or they come second, I think we can all agree on that. If they win the league and the conversation's done, if they come second, the conversation for me becomes about whether Arteta can lift them again. Yes. And you'll find a lot about that through pre-season, the first couple of months and next season. If they're looking like it's done, the opportunity was there, it was missed, then they're going to have a big decision to make. But I don't need to worry about that at the moment.

27:44Vishaal Seshadri: The only thing I would say is

27:45Luke Moore: I think the style of football Arsenal play this season hasn't won many neutrals over.

27:49Vishaal Seshadri: Do they care about that? I don't know.

27:50Luke Moore: They don't care about that. But with regard to the question, which teams in the Premier League could potentially be better next season? Like in terms of they'll challenge for the title. Arsenal would be there under Arteta. Man City, well, yeah, Pep stays. You know, there's some questions there. Liverpool, are they going to stick with slot? You know, of course, there's a potential for them to be better. Arsenal, there's a continuity there. But in terms of the style of play and so on, if Arsenal do this and it doesn't work, Arteta does have to do something a bit different we've seen them be a little bit more free scoring under him would it be two or three seasons ago whenever it was now if Arteta thinks right more of the same and we're going to do it then that I think could annoy Arsenal fans next season so I don't think he's going to be sacked this season if they don't win the league the pressure and the chat around them next season as you say Luke, could they bear it?

28:42Luke Moore: I don't know.

28:43Marcus Speller: Yeah and I think with Arteta specifically we might only know if he's ready to go again in about November when it isn't going well or when it might be going better than it was at this stage, at that stage of this season. But you remember last season, one of the things, certainly I took away from it, it was they had built a way of playing to combat Manchester City and they didn't see Liverpool coming. And this feels like, you know, with the signing of Eze in particular and Jokeres, there was an understanding of the kind of things they need to do more of in open play. and they haven't kind of enamoured themselves to neutrals and as Luke said rightly and succinctly they don't care and why should they care but at the same time that'll be the next thing to tweak of what if they don't win the league this season what can they improve and the only thing they can improve is you know being a bit more incisive in open play but again even for that they'll be the best suited of the league it's also a bad

29:40Vishaal Seshadri: time to have that conversation after what I just did at the weekend

29:42Marcus Speller: well I mean against the worst team in the league probably on form one of them

29:46Luke Moore: certainly one of them coming up after this we're all retiring at Melbourne Victory

29:56Vishaal Seshadri: alright welcome back again this one from Justin on Discord hello to you Justin who is your favourite player that had a viral slash memorable moment that defined their career ideally a player whose career was middling or okay at best but had one massive moment Roy Essendale classic come on You have to explain that to some of our younger listeners. No. Okay. Bish. I've got two. They can look it up themselves.

30:23Luke Moore: Yeah. Actually, no, I will. I will. Roy Essendale, the CFAX striker, of course.

30:29Vishaal Seshadri: Now explain what CFAX is.

30:31Luke Moore: Oh, yeah, I don't know. It was genuinely the pre-runner to the internet.

30:35Vishaal Seshadri: Yeah.

30:36Luke Moore: It was, wasn't it? Now explain what TV is.

30:42Luke Moore: Roy Essendale, born in Northern Ireland. he was a striker and it's fair to say was a bit of a journeyman I mean if you look at his Wikipedia the amount of clubs he had over his career and just a handful of appearances here and there he moved around a lot but in 2001 he signed of course for Wickham Wanderers who found themselves in the quarter final of the FA Cup they were playing against Leicester City far bigger opponent and Laurie Sanchez was in charge of Wickham Wanderers at the time and they had a bit of an injury crisis, was it? And was somebody bad? I can't remember. They didn't have enough bodies, essentially.

31:21Vishaal Seshadri: But they also needed a player that wasn't cup-tied, crucially.

31:23Luke Moore: Yeah, that's right. And, of course, it was a huge game. You know, Wickham Wanderers in the quarterfinal of the FA Cup against the mighty Leicester City. And Laurie Sandler was like, well, we've got to get somebody in. And they saw him. So what was it on CFAX? I think he put an ad on CFAX or something?

31:40Vishaal Seshadri: The club did, the club did, yeah. Yeah.

31:42Luke Moore: Oh, sorry, yes, of course. so Essendale saw that Leicester City had put on CFAX that you are going to have to look up CFAX I'm not going to try and explain that to you but honestly I do honestly the pre-runner to the internet was on your TV and he responded to the call they got him in and he played and of course he gets the winning goal a late one at the time Laurie Sanchez had been sent off he was watching the game on a TV in the changing room it was at Leicester as well it was at Filbert Street I think before they moved stadium of course to where they are now. I remember Laurie Sanchez. He was watching the game on the TV and of course they got a cameraman to go into where Laurie Sanchez was watching the game.

32:21Luke Moore: I remember it, yeah. And he goes down there. Little portable telly, yeah. And then of course what happens is Laurie Sanchez realises what's happening because he's watching the game and they're in the game. They're still in it. You know, it's a draw at the moment. And he's like, I'm now just looking at my own back on the TV. What's going on? And he turns around and then starts having a go at the cameraman. Yeah, I want to watch the game! And then of course Essendale scored and you saw Sanchez celebrating and it was an incredible moment. It was his only goal for Wickham. He only played a couple of handfuls of games and they're like, come on, surely?

32:49Luke Moore: And he's like, nah, off at the end of the season. That was him. And after Wickham Wanderers, I mean, he went to Barnet. He was there for a handful of games. Honestly, look at his Wikipedia page. It's hilarious. Like again, the amount of clubs, but that man...

33:01Vishaal Seshadri: He carved out a decent non-league career after that, I think. Oh, look.

33:05Luke Moore: He played on a professional football pitch, which is way better than myself and all my peers did. but proper journeyman career but that one moment which was voted 76th's best FA Cup moment ever in Andy Gray's FA Cup madness I mean if that's not an accolade Who was? Who Marcus? Roy Essendor Roy Essendor Marcus Yes him the guy I've been talking about for the last five minutes Andy

33:27Vishaal Seshadri: Tell him to look at that pyramid It's a good answer It's the best answer The only thing that sprung to mind for me was Eric Edmund's goal for Spurs at Anfield Oh what a hit

33:39Luke Moore: It's the only thing

33:40Vishaal Seshadri: The only reason I chose that is because it's the only thing I can think of that he ever did in his whole career

33:45Luke Moore: I think mine beats both of you Well in that well it's unlikely I think We'll decide We'll see if we can get time for it Yeah Definitely does You've set yourself up for a fail there No no no Remember Do your bit now But in terms of that Talksport Jason Cundey What? With his tackle goal Oh yeah The spurs In switch was it? Yeah Where he goes in for a slide tackle around the halfway line

34:06Vishaal Seshadri: That can't have been the only thing he did though Because he played He played for Pompey mate great career yeah but like

34:12Luke Moore: that's the moment you think of Jason Flandish go on then Vish hurry up Jimmy Glass oh good that is a good one yeah that's annoying that that's up there with Essendale

34:22Marcus Speller: for those that don't remember Jimmy Glass was a goalkeeper he played 95 times for Bournemouth was signed by Swindon Town and then went on loan to Carlisle United and Jimmy Glass in Carlisle United were playing against Plymouth Argyle in their last game of the season with relegation out of the Football League looming they had a last minute corner Jimmy Glass in his third appearance for the club went up for said corner scored lovely finish a lovely finish a lovely volley and just go on YouTube and watch that goal if you haven't seen it before because the scenes after it absolutely incredible

35:03Luke Moore: to be fair to you Vish I think you probably have at least equaled Roy Essendale's one he retired he retired at the age of 27

35:12Marcus Speller: in 2001 that happened in 1999 I didn't know he retired so he ended up playing a bit of non-league stuff but yeah

35:19Vishaal Seshadri: did you know who got relegated instead? was it like Wrexham or something? I'll give you a clue they've got the word cunt in their name oh it's Gunthorpe yeah they went down instead

35:30Luke Moore: makes you think doesn't it? it does make you think yeah the only other one I would say and it's a Scottish one even though the player was English Wayne Foster scoring for hearts against Hibs in the fourth round of the Scottish Cup. Wayne Foster was very much a scored player at the time. He didn't score that many goals for Hearts. Hibs were considered favourites for it because Hearts were on a 20-game non-losing run against Hibs. And they used to, you know, magic, you know, 20 games in a row, the number was always ticking up. Hibs were favourites for that game. Wayne Foster, ball over the top, runs in and scores.

36:03Luke Moore: It's the only thing really that I can certainly think of. And not only did he have that moment, he also has the distinction of having a short story named after him in Irvin Welsh's collection The Acid House.

36:16Vishaal Seshadri: There we go. That's where I remember it.

36:18Luke Moore: Yeah.

36:18Vishaal Seshadri: I think that's where it went on. Well, it's remarkable

36:20Luke Moore: how that's a thing, but good question from Justin.

36:24Vishaal Seshadri: A couple of people in the Discord, just before we move on to the final question of the day, popped up with Federica Mercado's goal for May United. Nice. Remember that one quite well. And David Nugent's goal for England. Yeah. But again, that implies that David Nugent didn't do anything else other than that. And he also played upon me so that's not true

36:39Luke Moore: Maradona's handball

36:40Vishaal Seshadri: yeah true what else has he done where else has he done

36:43Marcus Speller: Messi trying to break into that referee's room on the weekend yeah good one

36:49Luke Moore: you went a bit over the top there right last question Harry Kane doing

36:53Marcus Speller: his ankle ligament come on last

36:56Luke Moore: last question here

36:57Marcus Speller: Beckham telling Victoria not to lie yeah

37:02Marcus Speller: would you say he's madder than his son

37:10Luke Moore: BM900 the blurry elephant in the room god BM900 we won't know if that elephant's in the room or not we can't see it BM900 asks us on Discord this inspired by 37 year old Juan Mata scoring a screamer for Melbourne victory he got two I think didn't he in the game yeah where would your retirement holiday football club slash league of choice for a late 30s footballer be to wind down

37:32Vishaal Seshadri: I told you mine time and time again Al Hillel no absolutely not I don't even know which one of the Saudi clubs that is what about Terek Grozny what was the team that played there no not them no Club Bruges for me okay yeah good that's a great place I'd love to live there right on the canal Seska Moscow for me you always say Sevilla you don't have to worry about Europe do you you always say Sevilla Marcus always says Sevilla why do I always you do it's an amazing city every time we have these kind of conversations you always tell me I should visit

38:03Marcus Speller: Leon, Melbourne is good actually and the standard's shit enough that he can he reckons he can give it a go now

38:10Vishaal Seshadri: I'm not going to Australia no way

38:14Luke Moore: it's outside the UEFA family

38:16Vishaal Seshadri: good point Marcus good point Mr Seferin but secondly Seferin look over here

38:23Marcus Speller: no

38:25Vishaal Seshadri: fight me Seferin I said it properly there in the words of a funnier man than me the world's biggest collection of poisonous things no thank you yeah there's nothing in Australia for me

38:35Luke Moore: Club Bruges is a good one Leon yeah what about a little something a bit you know you go to like Brazil or Argentina

38:43Vishaal Seshadri: yeah that'd be nice you'd get the shit kicked out of you yeah you would and an Englishman as well in Brazil you'd be okay yeah I don't know my mate I went to Monaco I went to the game with yeah well there you go get a hang out with guys can I get a knighthood where'd you get it from my friend Leo went to the football yesterday today. He played for the Ramble team for a bit, Lee. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he said he was on holiday with his family recently in a resort just outside Rome in Italy. Very nice. And they had a load of activities they ran for everyone. And he said every Tuesday and Thursday they did like pick up football, like six aside football.

39:16Vishaal Seshadri: And he said that he went along and he was the only Englishman there. All the others were Italians. Right. And when they found that he was English, they all just started laughing at him. Really? Yeah. Just started laughing at him. Right. Just pitying him for being English. Look how annoying In English, we wanted to play football, basically. All right. We're a load of Italians. Okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah. I hope... Be angry down the camera. Yeah, go on. Lee's a good player. He is a good player, exactly. He's a big boy as well. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

39:45Luke Moore: I hope he got... I'm sure he had the last laugh. Well, indeed.

39:48Vishaal Seshadri: I'm sure he didn't switch sides.

39:53Vishaal Seshadri: I'm sure he stuck it out to the end.

39:54Luke Moore: Yeah, which team do you want to be on, Lee? And whichever team ends up winning. I'm sure he paid his subs. Yeah, exactly. and I hope he got stuck stuck up into that soft underbelly exactly oh dear

40:07Vishaal Seshadri: I'm adding Italy to my list of countries you can't be offensive about in a World Cup year is that right so now it's Argentina France Germany and Italy right okay

40:15Luke Moore: yeah

40:15Vishaal Seshadri: after what they did to us in the Euros final Marcus I can rely on your support I presume

40:19Luke Moore: you can always rely on my support if you're getting jingoistic about England

40:24Vishaal Seshadri: are they qualified for this one oh exactly yeah not yet yeah

40:28Luke Moore: good luck to them good luck to us all thank you very much for listening to the Football Ramble part of the Acast Creator Network please do send us your responses opinions and questions for next week's mailbag and become a friend of the Ramble to join the conversation on Discord that's it everybody see you tomorrow

40:51Marcus Speller: the Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network