Mailbag: Has Pep Guardiola been good for English football?

0:00Hello everybody, welcome to the Football Ramble Mailbag. Pep Guardiola, Basketball Rules and Player Managers are the orders of the day. It's Tuesday, 11th of November. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm Jim Campbell.

0:24Hello, everybody. Lovely to have you with us on this fine Tuesday for the mailbag. Now, remember, you're in the driving seat with this show. We are just mere passengers. shouting away in the back gobbling off giving our opinions we are shouting a lot of directions where you're driving but of course we want your questions so get in touch with xbluesky or Instagram at footballramble comment on YouTube email us shoutfootballramble.com and of course friends of the Ramble get priority patreon.com slash footballramble or sign up on YouTube to become a friend of the Ramble yeah you can be a member on YouTube now very exciting it's a great idea you get all the uncuts but they're filmed it's incredible really I don't even know they're being filmed Oh blimey Jim you're going to have to start putting some clothes on Never No fair enough Non-negotiable for Jim That's a deal breaker Hot in here And Luke you're going to have to start taking some clothes off Always happy to Give the people what they want Former sergeant in the naked police No problem with that Blimey Let's talk about that on Uncut Yeah we should We should Oh dear Fortunately I never got a naked arrest Doesn't show me in the best light though You just really volunteered that brought to the table It's a different time though wasn't it 2022 It was

1:33oh dear oh well that's how yeah we shouldn't do too many we shouldn't do too many in-jokes we want to win an FSA award we can't win an FSA award by doing these in-jokes markers that's right how many times do I have to tell you well we did last year yeah that's true actually okay so one more joke about your mother-in-law then we'll carry on let's start with this question from friend of the ramble Dean on YouTube after Pep Guardiola's 1000th game in management I have a simple question that might have a simple answer. Has he been good for English football? Jim. It's a tricky one, this. That's what you mean by English football, I guess.

2:08It does, because I think if you look at the standard of the game now, even though I think we've gone through a cycle that was mostly inspired by him that we're perhaps coming out the other side of now, even though obviously he's still very much a going concern in terms of someone who's going to challenge for the title this season. I think the standard of football is higher for him having been here. I suppose you have to separate it from the argument of whether or not, you know, a team like City and the way they're funded is good for English football. I suppose if you take it at face value and look at Pep Guardiola on that side of it, absolutely.

2:48Yeah, I think it led to some really, really high standards. I mean, if you look at the standard of the Liverpool teams, the ones that didn't even win the league. and the quality of the Jurgen Klopp team that did, I think it's a bit of a Messi-Ronaldo situation, isn't it? Is one as good without the other? And I think Guardiola has absolutely been the benchmark for that. Well, he said that, didn't he? He said that Klopp and Liverpool, he said they spur us on. Absolutely. There was a time we thought that that would be Guardiola and Mourinho in the Premier League. But obviously it turned out to be Klopp, the one that really kind of brought the best out of him.

3:21Has it been good for English football? Well, because the flip side to it, I think, is that it made it quite boring for a time, didn't it? Which was that you've got these two teams absolutely out in front ahead of everybody else. Quite often it felt like it was really just Man City. They get that 100-point season, which is an amazing thing in itself, but it's a bit dull, isn't it, for everybody else? So I suppose that way you're saying, oh, the problem with him was he was too good and he was too successful, which isn't really fair on his achievements. Well, it's funny because when you started answering that question, you were very much saying, well, of course he's been good.

3:52And then you gave the reasons. and then and then you're pondering it aren't you I am I think it's a genuinely really interesting question because the answer isn't simple I don't think yeah yeah yeah so you've obviously got to define what you mean by English football right so if you could talk about the Premier League and the Premier League is a huge how has it affected Barnet yeah well we don't know well the England national team have benefited they have and that's what I was going to say before Jim was unfair and made a joke at my expense and Barnet's and Barnet's expense yeah mostly Barnet's expense you wouldn't catch me doing that to you Jim no look the Premier League is the most successful league in the world by some distance.

4:25And obviously, Guardiola is not the only reason for that, but he's a big contributing factor to it. And I think there's an element, isn't there, with the way that Man City are funded. Football's opened itself up to that type of funding now, not just in Manchester City, but in other places as well. And I suppose there's a feeling, isn't there, that Guardiola is one of us now? But if you look at, say for example, if you look at, say yesterday on the show, we talked about all those other old school English managers giving Guardia his credit for his thousand games in this quite emotional tribute. Well, those are the type of people who 10 years ago would have been saying, yeah, but can he do it here?

5:03Now they're saying, shit, he's the guy. Which was satisfying, wasn't it? When he came in and could do it. And he's been, I would argue, totally adopted by us as like an honorary Englishman, as an honorary kind of Premier League guy. And you don't need to look any further than him being linked with the England job over and over again. I mean, he was basically offered it. We love him. We love him. And we would have all been on board with him. Exactly. And even people that don't like Man City love him. You know, you can hold those two things in your head at the same time. So I think he's clearly been hugely influential culturally and tactically in this country.

5:43And Marcus, you're right to say 100 % I agree with this. It's unthinkable that England would be producing the type of players they're producing now had the modern blueprint for football not come about. And there's no one more synonymous with it than Guardiola. I would say these kind of diminutive, technical, very good and tight spaces players who are winners. I know England haven't got over the line yet, but it's night and day to what it was before. But I guess it just comes down to, as ever with these types of questions, it also comes down to what you like. I think Klopp's had a big influence.

6:15Klopp's done it in a kind of slightly more traditionally English adjacent way he was very influenced by English style football in 70s and 80s so I think overall Guardia has been good but I don't think he's the only reason why football and the technical floor if you like has been raised but he's definitely a big part of it yeah and just to add on to that I think I echo all the thoughts there because and even when you were kind of thinking well has he been good because this season's really good in the Premier League so far partly because of that is it feels like any team can beat any team you don't have this one team who were just absolutely indestructible the idea of the perfect season but the bit obviously I wanted to say was about the England national team benefiting from this look at what he did to Kyle Walker for example turned him into a much better player and you could get John Stones who's still in the England set up Raheem Sterling benefited massively indeed it was a stalwart for the England side and Phil Foden and Phil Foden.

7:13Also Calvin Phillips. Well, yeah. There's a bit of shrapnel.

7:23And look what he did to Joe Hart as well. That wasn't fair. You'll never be welcome to this country fully if you treat a man like Joe Hart like that. Certainly not around this table. Yeah, but as you say, that style he's brought in, English football was in the dark ages for so long and now we've got it back. The technical side of things. You can go non-league now, Marcus, and watch players want to play out in the back. Exactly. They're favouring much more technical players. There's not as many lumps. I mean, look, I've witnessed it in the standard of football that I used to play. Do you know what I mean?

7:56It has gone through every nook and cranny of football in this country. And when we talk about, you know, I joke about we got our game back in the long throws and all that kind of stuff. Well, you can still do all that, but if you can do that and you've got much better technical quality and you're much more comfortable on the ball and you can pass it and all the rest of it, then, you know... You're in a good spot. you're in a good spot I also think weirdly for the part of the world he's from I don't know if he would consider himself Spanish or Catalan I don't want to get into that kind of thought I mean he is Spanish yeah played for the Spanish the Spain NFL team sure so in a weird way though it feels like the way he likes to play which of course has evolved over many years we're not talking they're clearly his Manchester City team do not play like the 2008 2009 Barcelona team but and there'll be lots of different reasons for that who themselves didn't play like the 2000 and would it be 10-11?

8:43Yeah, so there's always been a progression. Yeah, totally. But what I'm saying is when he was in his pomp at Barcelona as a manager, there was, I thought, quite a fair criticism, which was it made it boring. It was very, very systemic. It was very kind of death by a thousand passes. Almost to the point where it was becoming almost obscene the amount of passing for passing sake. Would you say in that final at Wembley when they beat Man Utd? Yeah. Did they stink out of the place? Well, I get what you're saying I think the best example of it is and this is not a Guardiola game himself but his influence was when the Spanish national team played Russia in the 2018 World Cup and it was ridiculous it was just passing with no kind of effect at all and it got to a point where it actually just looked a bit absurd it just seemed completely like they'd missed the point of the entire game because at least with England if you're going to pass aimlessly.

9:41No, you just hoof it. But here's the point I was just going to make just to put a final point on that. It was just that I think that there might have been a calculation at some point from Guardia to say that's not going to work here. That's actually, we're going to need to kind of adopt some of the English traditions, some of the ways that the Premier, because the Premier League is of course all about speed really. Physicality. If you watch, back 15 years ago, if you would watch a Premier League game and then watch a La Liga game, it was very apparent how different the speed was. And I think he's been able to adapt into the Premier League and has become almost really well suited to the Premier League as well.

10:20And I'd also throw in that if we are going to talk about English football being not just the English national team, but our domestic league as well, you can also definitely throw in there that we have been able to watch better players here because they've wanted to play for Guardiola or in turn wanted to play for Klopp or the other kind of top level managers have seen this is where the money is this is where the glamour is this is where it counts domestically we want to manage in this league and the players have followed suit and I think that's a good thing as well because of course it's influenced the younger English players coming through yeah I mean only back in May we had a question on the mail back asking if we were witnessing the decline of Pep Bowl and Tiki Taka yeah but I think that's been moved on but Tiki Taka was an expression he hated anyway yeah and I think that as you say just passing for the sort of sake of it I don't think we've seen that for a while but I think as well I think Guardiola perhaps just to finish the fact is that we've seen him more recently I suppose being interviewed by Neil Warnock and they seem to get on well the way he spoke about some of the traditional managers from here he's embraced it yeah I think he has his best friend's Noel Gallagher come on don't get more English than that there we are and a cardboard cutout of Pep was on stage at these tour which is still going on Jim I don't know if they're best friends by the way but I know they are friends they're definitely pals they're definitely pals Craig has been in touch said I saw Manuel Pellegrini say last week that players shouldn't be allowed to pass back into their half once the ball has crossed the halfway line and they're in possession.

11:43Basically, no backwards passes, basketball style. I thought these rules suggestions were usually reserved for Arsene Wenger on the B-in Sports sofa with Richard Keyes, but does the old cunt have a point? Now, just to clarify, that is a reference to what Alan Pardew said to Manuel Pellegrini on the touch. And it was shut your noise. Craze words knock your eyes as well. Yeah, to be clear on that. That is like you just shoved down at the end yourself. So shall I do a bit of a sense check? A little context here. So in the NBA, they have a rule called the half-court rule where the team in possession goes over the halfway line.

12:17They're not allowed to pass it back over the halfway line. I actually really like this idea. Yeah. Yeah. I was talking about this possibly because I was so bored watching Spurs against Chelsea the weekend before last. I actually said to my friend Blair, shout out Blair. Yeah. Great singer-songwriter. Yeah. Blair Dunlop. Check him out. He's a Spurs fan. he was doing this more than I was I don't even care about Spurs I was saying it would be a really interesting way of basically I'd love to see a game where this rule was in place and I've said it before when we've done these kind of specials we did years ago we talked about different rules we'd like to be implemented and stuff like goalkeeper not being able to leave the penalty area or if you hit the post and it goes out you get a corner that kind of stuff I actually did suggest the half court rule so I think what did Blair say to that?

13:02he was into it or was he too worried about his witch project? I thought too much time had passed. I've worked it back in. There's me working. Blair famously wants to bring back witches to not just football, but English life generally. So that's why he's got his project. There you go. I think it would probably be too difficult for the smaller team, if you like. So if you're a team, if you're Sunderland, not Sunderland because they're good. If you are Wolves, a way at someone good, you're going to possibly set up in a certain way and it's not going to be conducive to a half-pitch rule in this case.

13:36But I do think it would really, really stamp out this idea that some teams are very predisposed to once they go ahead, what we have, we hold. You can't really do that in this case. But what's wrong with that, though? It would be an extension to the back-pass rule, I think. But what's wrong with that? Yeah, I think this is the point as well. It gives a huge, huge advantage to the sort of depressing attacking teams, especially if there's an imbalance like that. indeed yeah that's that's that's what i worry about also these passes aren't always negative right there are so many different types of passing move you can make like a sort of bounce pass as it's known yeah where you know you deliberately um pass backwards to another player who's found that space to then ping it over to someone who's further forward you can do that just not over the halfway line yeah but i mean i i so so i think respect the engineer so i think paladarini's got a point i think the back pass rule which was brought in donkeys years ago was a great addition so that's something we all agree because people were taking the absolute piss if you watch it now it looks absurd it's ludicrous exactly it's so boring oh my giddy aunt I mean it's just ridiculous so that rule we needed it came in and as I said but it was donkey's years ago so don't worry about that this I think unlike the back pass rule the back pass rule was I mean that is such a primitive tactic that you had to do whereas with this I think it forces teams into playing a high line and that's just not fair.

15:04That to me, look, we've been praising Sunderland on yesterday's pod about how they sometimes sit deep and so on. If you can't pass backwards, then your defenders have to go right up basically to the halfway line. Otherwise, you are leaving such big gaps all over the pitch. So you're forcing teams to play like a peak Guardiola side or whatever. And I don't think that's fair. I don't like that being forced upon teams going, come on, you need to be more excited or you need to be more whatever. Yeah, and also, again, then the better teams would massively benefit from that because they would sign as they already do the most industrious the quickest players and all the rest of it and they would get in behind so easily but considering every single word you've just said there would that be fun to watch?

15:45I think it would be exceptional fun as a Fulham fan no I take your point I know there's a lot of drawbacks to it I just think it would be interesting to see it you could in theory draw another line on the pitch a bit deeper then and do it there let's do it for the League Cup that is always made our suggestion on this show. There's only 10 ground on the line. Do it at the league. Exactly, yeah. I don't think the old what's it has a point. No, fair enough. I just think the rules of football, they're good. There's tweaks here and there, but that is just not... My position is, as it was, I'd like to see it.

16:17Right. No, you'd like to see it specifically at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Well, Andrew's kind of doing it, though. Well, there you go. I don't think they'd like to see it. Yeah. All right, coming up after this, we try to help a listener with their algorithm.

16:39Yeah, welcome back. And this is an email from Mohanid. Hello to you, Mohanid. He says, big fan of the show, all the way from Jordan. There we go. Been listening for about six years now, but this is my first time getting in touch. Well, you're very welcome. He says, I was chatting with some friends in Asia and the US about how, as we get older and have less time, it's getting harder to decide which game to stay up for, assuming your own team isn't playing, of course. that led me to build something called Watchability Score which is available at watchabilityscore.com amazingly enough which rates it's a website that rates matches based on excitement players, competitiveness and some other factors which Mahana doesn't actually include but are mysterious and therefore sexy it made me wonder for football obsessed lads like you when there are a few games on at once and you're not pulling any Andy Brassel seven screens speaking of sexy how do you decide which one to watch we'd love to hear your thoughts and maybe I'll even fold them into my algorithm now watchabilityscore.com is something I never knew of before.

17:32But at the moment, it's telling me that with a watchability score of 47.8 out of 100, the Brazilian game between RB Bragantino and Atletico MG is probably worth watching. Whereas Santos versus Palmeiras has limited appeal, is ranked limited appeal because that's 39.7 out of 100. I mean, presumably, this is his website. He's not just... It is his website. Absolutely. Whatever you do, do not even think about watching USM Algier versus Ben Acnoon. in the Algerian League because that's got a watchability score of 24.3. And while I'm on the subject, I wouldn't bother watching Amazonas versus Pei Sandu in the Brazilian regular season either.

18:115.4 out of 100 watchability score. Get that on the dressing room. Yeah, this could revolutionise football watching this. Well, I think it could. I'm very pleased to hear from you, mate. Yeah. So, I suppose really when you've got a choice of games. Yeah, so how are you ranking your watchability score is what Mohamed's basically saying. So I interpreted this immediately as there's more than one game on. Yeah, exactly. Right. So usually that would be Champions League games, wouldn't it? Or the 2pm kick-offs on a Sunday now. Which is relatively new to us, but is key now. So for Champions League...

18:46You're a traditionalist, so you're not going to watch the Saturday 3 o 'clock. Well, I'm not allowed to. Exactly. Because you abide by the laws of this country. If you want to call that a traditionalist, fine. Yeah. We should all be traditionalists. It's also why you don't rob anyone. Yeah. absolute square yeah who have you anyway so if it was say Champions League games then Mahanad is he might find this a bit of a boring answer but I would tend to watch the teams that I am familiar with and I think familiarity is a huge part of this so you know I can joke and kid all I want and you know Man City are hosting say Borussia Dortmund a good game or I don't know maybe another side but maybe there's Barcelona versus I don't know sort of a glamour tie with Juventus or I don't know maybe Juventus not the base Inter say I am I am as much as I think oh that would be really great the only reason why I'd maybe watch that is I'd like to see how Rashford gets on right it would honestly it would be players that I'm more familiar with and if there's an England interest would you I know that sounds would you accept the charge of basic bitch yeah I think I would fair enough I think I would or basic bastard perhaps but basic English bastard.

20:00Yeah, that's right. If you can live last month with that, then that's on you. So I think, yeah, I watch while, you know, with an English head on, really. I love that you've got an eye on the England national team. An English head. He's got an English head on. Yeah. Jim, what about you? So mine would be kind of similar. I think familiarity is absolutely very important, particularly with the Champions League. If it was the case that Barcelona or Bayern were playing and Inter were playing as well, depending on how the teams are getting on in their domestic leagues, I would probably go where I think the goals are going to be.

20:36So you wouldn't think Rashford or Kane, you would think Inter? No, I'm not saying I would probably not watch Inter. I would probably choose Barcelona or Bayern over Inter, but not because of the English players' involvement, but because I think those teams are probably more likely to score goals and put an entertaining game on. So you're a traitor, not a traditionalist? Yes. so it's on me then it's one all any treachery about always always with me my take so I can't watch the seven screens at the same time no I can't Andy does genuinely do that and for me my brain doesn't work in that way I end up not watching anything and my mind just drifts to me the fact that we haven't talked about is probably one that's informed by the job we do right so for me I feel quite conscious that I have to try and watch teams that perhaps haven't seen enough of so if we're talking about domestic, you used a Sunday two o 'clock example where you've got a choice of games.

21:29I'll, if I haven't seen, because sometimes you can get, just for the quirk of the calendar or because you're busy and you're doing different stuff in football on the Ramble, I can get to seven, eight games in the season. I think, shit, I haven't watched Sunderland yet. Yeah, sure. So I have to prioritise that. Would you go with the stories out? Yeah, mine's probably more narrative based. So I'd always, I'm always, I mean, there's a reason why Man City, Liverpool at this point is on at 4.30 on Sunday anyway. I would always watch the big games for the big stories. I would also, I also favour, if I think there's a chance that a big team, a big club could get pumped, I'm always fascinated to watch that.

22:03More FA Cup stuff you're going into. Kind of, kind of. But no, I think if you see like, you know, it's happened before where Manchester United are struggling and they're going up against the vintage Klopp Liverpool and you think they could get absolutely smashed at Anfield. True. I mean, that's 7-0. It wasn't Klopp's Liverpool, was it? No, but that has happened before. But that seven, I remember the day after the show, you were like, when the goals start going and it's like, whatever you're doing, just stop this. The spectacle really. It's like a microwave pileup. People slow down for it. That's how it goes.

22:31Rubbernecking basically. But for me, I'm going basically story based. With an exception that I, if there's a signing that comes into the Premier League that I'm really excited to watch, I'll prioritise that. But that's not a gimme, whereas there's always a story, which is the biggest story of the day. But in August is what I mean. If a big player comes to the Premier League, when Haaland signed for City, you're desperate to watch his first game. Yeah, more specific sort of thing, yeah. Okay, so for the algorithm then, or Mahanad's algorithm, we're suggesting familiarity, the likelihood of goals, and narrative.

23:03Yeah, I think so. And I think we should give a shout out to his watchabilityscore.com because it sounds like a really great thing. I like it, yeah. I didn't know anything about it. I'm definitely going to use it from now on. Well, Mahanad, get in touch again, see what you think of that. And we'd love an update. We'd love a follow-up next week. And I would recommend anybody to go to the beautiful country of Jordan. Lots to do there. You visited, yeah. Yeah, not in the last six years, so there was never really a chance. If we'd have crossed paths, perhaps we did, you'd have had no idea who I was.

23:26Presumably you saw the historic city of Petra, did you? Of course. Was it nice? Well, the ancient, it's in ruins now. Not just historic, it's ancient. Yeah. That's what you're going to say. And I'm thinking, is it ancient? I mean, to me it was. Like some of your opinions of Jordan Henderson. How dare you. How bloody, he's in the squad. Yeah, I know he is. I know. So for now, Oh, you toast. You need to modernise. Yeah, I do. I do. You need to get up to date. I've always been told that. Yeah, get yourself up to date by visiting Petra in Jordan and lots of other marvellous things to see there. Now, we have a message here from Mark who says, having watched the new Kenny Dalgleish documentary, which is brilliant and well worth a watch, seeing him be a player manager and win the league was quite astonishing.

24:08That is quite astonishing, actually, when you think about that. Yeah. It's fair to say that that will never happen again at the top level, but why do you think that is and who currently playing in the Premier League would make the best player manager. I think Mark is absolutely right to highlight this because in his first season as player manager, he won a league and FA Cup double. And he went on to win the league three times and win two FA Cups as a player manager. I mean, that is astonishing. He was a player manager for, I think, five years. I mean, in our lifetimes, class, in our lifetimes, we have seen, obviously, player managers do all right.

24:41Like Gianluca Vialli, for example, at Chelsea. they won the FA Cup yeah who followed Ruud Hullett who was a player manager who won the FA Cup with Chelsea as well it was quite common in the 90s yeah definitely I mean there was an interesting story that old Stevie Bruce was saying recently that when Manchester United would it be the 1994 FA Cup final when they beat Chelsea 4-0 it was Glenn Hoddle's Chelsea and Hoddle was player manager himself he was player manager at Swindon as well yes and fared a bit better at Swindon because he dropped back in the defence I think and that was the point of what Ferguson was saying to his team.

25:14He kept saying to them in the lead up to the game, score the first goal. If we get the first goal, we'll steamroll them. We'll beat them three or four. He kept saying that to them on the training ground all week up to the build up. And Bruce said he pulled Ferguson to the side and said, boss, why do you think? Because Chelsea, I think, had beaten them twice in the league, maybe. I think Gavin Peacock scored in one. And he said, why do you keep saying that to us? And he said, because what will happen is you get the first goal. And if we're then into the second half, he said Hoddle won't be able to he won't be able to help himself and he'll bring himself off and he went and his legs have gone he'll play in the centre of the pitch and we'll overrun him and that's what happened and that's what happened but I think to tackle the question maybe Glenn was disrespectful to another team in a past life and that's why he lost the game I think to answer I heard that purposely when Jim was having a big war I think to answer the question why it will never happen again I think because of the physical demands at the top level it's not only that it's both sides of it, isn't it?

26:12Managers can't even manage the whole club like those players. Exactly, yeah. So, you know, Alex Ferguson was, you know, Lord of all these of aid quite famously. You look at Pep Guardiola's set up, he's got a team of about 50. You know, and that's not playing stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So,

26:28the size of the job, football has become so massive now that even if you're the manager of a club, there's so many aspects of the club that you're not really directly in control of at all. I mean, you're ultimately the figurehead for the football operation. But, you know, it is totally impossible to do that now, let alone playing for the point you rightly make, Marcus, which is that the game is so fast now. But to be a player manager, you are going to need to be able to compete. So therefore, you're going to have to be young enough to be able to compete. But you're going to have to work so much time on your fitness and skills.

27:01There wouldn't be enough hours in the day. And they just bump up against each other now. Because you can't be, you know, Fabian Herzl is a young manager, right? he's a young manager that's doing well because he's dedicated his life to coaching because it's so detailed now he wasn't playing for most of that time it's the same with a lot of these managers now they've not really been players at the top level for any kind of length of time so the game is just very very different now also it's worth looking at Dalglish and remembering that he even within this context he's an outlier so he played 21 times in his first season in charge twice in the season after that and then didn't really play much from there so it shows you yeah so even when he was player manager for a long, long time.

27:40He was more manager than player there. But he's registered as a player. Yeah, sure. Which is still very impressive, right? But other than him, in terms of actually winning the league in England, only John Cameron did it with Spurs. And that was in 1901. Graham Soonest did it in Scotland with Rangers as well. He did. But they are extremely rare. But Cameron did it with Spurs, so... Yeah, fair play. In almost credit to him. Yeah. So I think it's, you know, it's always been something that has been very, very difficult to do. even when it was a bit more manageable. And they'd only be in a situation now where it was a real crisis going on at a club now.

28:18No, no, but it wouldn't be because you get a player from a youth team. And again, that shows you, you'd rather have a 16-year-old who's never played first-team football sit on the bench or play than a guy, even if he is a young manager, to do it. It just seems mad. Well, it does seem mad. And also as well, back in the day, your starting 11 was almost sacrosanct. You know, you didn't have the scored rotation because you had far fewer games. For a large part of that, you obviously didn't have subs. You had one sub for a large part of that. Yeah, there you go. So there's an enormous amount of reasons which we've talked about there.

28:43Yeah, what we're trying to say, by the way, Mark, is it's a stupid fucking question. Well, it isn't a stupid question. And we've given it more respect and time and Nick, frankly, it deserves. Well, the fact is, Mark knew why. Well, he knows it's not going to happen. He just wanted us to tell the people why it's not going to happen. And now he's going to go and vote for us in the FSAs because he's a good listener. Sorry about the stupid question bit. Quite clearly, Mark has been having a discussion in a pub with his mates and there's one or two who think it's still possible. Mark going, can you tell these guys why it's not possible?

29:09But Mark does leave the door open for a bit of humour and a bit of fun with the last part of his question because he says, who currently in the Premier League would you make the best player manager? It's annoying that you said currently playing in the Premier League. Currently plying their trade. Because I've come for it from the other angle. I was just going to say Roy Hodgson.

29:29You'd have to play very deep. Very deep. You've got to look at age, haven't you? Milner. Milner's a great shout. I thought, I've read it as current manager. I read that as well. and I thought this joke would have been better five games ago, but Ruben Amaroom could have shown them what he actually means. Yeah. I thought Mikel Arteta could probably do okay. Just about Scott Parker. Yeah. Scotty Parker, come on. A lot of people used to say that Frank Lampard was still the best player at Derby when he managed them. Sure, yeah. Zola apparently was really good when he was managing still at West Ham.

30:00Apparently he was still really good. That was the thing with Hoddle, wasn't it? would get frustrated with players apparently that didn't have the same sort of technical level as him. Beckham famously. Yes. But you know, one of the things that's a bit of a misconception about the players who have to retire, sometimes you do see it in real time. So you see Gary Neville famously, I think Robbie Savage as well, struggled and their legs basically did go. But for a lot of the players, it's actually about the recovery time. It's actually about, it's actually about the idea that if you're playing a really intense top level game, it can take, you know, five, six days to properly recover.

30:32And of course, you're then always chasing your tail because you can't really train much, you can't recover quickly enough and that's when you know you can't play anymore. Some of the stuff people like Thiago Silva do when they're sort of really extending their careers, it's like going home and like going into mad science fiction chambers for two hours. So much goes into the recovery. Yeah, well I mean and you know, wouldn't sell Redknapp say to Merson or managers would say to their older players who were contributing a lot, they would just go, right, see you on, if they're going on the chat, they see you on Tuesday.

31:01Ledley King was the great example for different reasons apparently the only time other players saw Lily King was in the fucking jacuzzi yeah but they would it's because of that recovery time so you'd say well you take the next couple of days off obviously don't be stupid you know with your diet and all that kind of stuff but I tell you what one man I think who could be player manager Jordan Henderson coming up after this lost players in the Premier League and some World Cup advice for an Irishman

31:36James has been in touch on Discord and James says, with James McAtee showing promise and then disappearing into the forest, pun intended, and Harvey Ellington not really taking the hoped for and discussed leap after the under 21 Euros, which players across the Prem would you say are languishing or a bit lost and should be seeing more game time? Kobi Maynou. Yeah, that was my immediate answer as well. And did you hear that apparently Scott McTominay has been chatting to him and the club going, come on do the right thing nice that would be so good that would be great yes mad though I mean we know the talent that he possesses and started in the Euros final for England really trusted for England yeah exactly just a bit over a year ago Kobe Mane is a really good one I didn't think of him but you're right to say the one I thought about which is probably a little bit bad timing given that he actually played pretty well at the weekend Tom recorded was probably Omari Hutchinson scored in the under 21's final when England won it and then was probably one of the few players to emerge with quite a lot of credit from his relegation season, gets his move and has found it hard to find game time.

32:39Came off the bench, as I just alluded to, to help Nottingham Forest beat Leeds at the weekend. But he's not started many games in the Premier League of any. And so he does feel like he satisfies James' point about players just being a bit lost after such a big contribution. Harvey Elliott is one that there was a lot of clamour, a lot of hype for him in the summer. he gets a move to somewhere he's going to do playing every single minute of every game and that's just not happened partly because Aston Villa have started they've turned it around now really but they started quite poorly so you know that's what football's like it's fickle Marcus your point about Mainer is also interesting because clearly he's just now playing under a manager that doesn't like him very much and that can happen to a lot yeah bar the very very best players in the world that can happen to anyone yeah what about Ali Izac yeah yeah that's a good shout a lot of the players kind of you think about in this context just tend to be injured, don't they?

33:33So they don't really count. But I really want to see as much of Lewis Hall as possible. I think he's a really, really good player. I think he's going to be a really big option for England in the future. But he's, you know, recently has been injured so he doesn't really fit the brief of the question. It's also really good to see Kean and Dewsbury Hall escape this. Yeah. Because he's been brilliant for Everton. And it seems a really, really good fit. And he's added so much to them. Isak's reference, your reference of Isak though, that's self-harm isn't it? That's just you know I'm making this big gamble with my career because I want to make this move and come what way I'm going to do it and I'm going to sacrifice a pre-season for it as well.

34:07Sacrifice his own pre-season Liverpool found themselves in a tricky spot he's not contributing really in terms of goals partly for the aforementioned reasons and as we've seen in top level football you can't take it for granted he's not going to be the first player to cost a load of money and not do much I mean there was someone in the Guardian quite recently making a point crunching some numbers on how many of the players that cost over 100 million actually prove to be really valuable players. It's not that many of them. The hit rate's really low. It seems to be particularly low on the attacking players as well.

34:38So the players with these huge fees like Mois Caicedo, Declan Rice, you probably put Enzo Fernandes in there as well. I don't think... No one talks about the fees because they're good. They're doing the thing they were starting to do which is maybe less eye-catching. I mean, yeah. The wording of the question is languishing and a bit lost because some players, you think I might see them a bit more but the competition for places is fierce so you can kind of understand that a bit and they've still got the bit between the teeth and they're still at the races I mean Raheem Sterling? Yeah I mean bloody Nora His career is on the wane though But that is reportedly he wanted to stay in London for family reasons which you have to understand that He's got a lot of miles on the clock though because he started he was what 16 when he broke into the Liverpool team but still though he could not playing at all I mean it's you know but you know a former Chelsea man a current Villa man I still think Jadon Sancho could be starting games for a Premier League side or even a side abroad I mean getting back to Dortmund he played at the weekend he did play no sorry he played in the midweek in Europe so he'll play in the European games you just I think of these players you know huge transfer fees you know played with Sancho played in the Champions League final played you know and there he's just sort of a bit part player and you think there's more there and I understand he's taken that move to Villa because he's not getting anything obviously at Manchester United he was Chelsea didn't buy him so again fair play to him that's not a dig at him at all down the Rashford Highway yes exactly yeah I would like to see more of him ultimately which is what the essence of the question is all about good examples plenty there to get your teeth into James hope that answers your question alright finally what about this from Jordan on Instagram who says which other nation should my Irish housemate support next summer apart from England of course yeah Ivory Coast.

36:25You just turn the flag around, don't you? Yeah, it's easy. Admin reason. You haven't got to shell out for a new flag. That's an excellent one. Yeah. Surely the answer is the most World Cup country of all time. Mexico. Don't they say the South Koreans are the Irish of Southeast Asia? Do they? That is true. Yeah, that is said. You know, that kind of Irish kind of vibe. I've never been to South Korea, but that's what people say. I have been to South Korea and I wouldn't say the vibe is particularly Irish. probably be an Irish bar or two there but I mean there's an Irish bar or two on the moon have you been to Ireland because is the vibe particularly Korean the vibe in Ireland is a lot more Irish than it is in South Korea Marcus I've got I've got some bad news for Jordan and his mate though because if he wants to stick to UEFA as a confederation about who he's going to support next summer he's only got one choice hasn't he because England are the only team that have technically qualified at the moment I think he'll have more of a choice we will the questions come in now we're going to answer as it comes in.

37:23Well, if you don't want to support England that much, why don't you go for one of our enemies? Why don't you support Iran? Yeah. Go full hog on it, eh? Support the entire axis of evil. Yeah, support the Putin 11. It's unlikely they're going to get there. Yeah. We should mention at the time of recording there's three debutant nations at the World Cup next year. get behind one of them. Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan, Jordan, and Pete Donaldson's Cape Verde. Well, I'll tell you what, I think get behind Jordan then because we've had a lovely email from Jordan. The watchability score on Jordanian games. And the messengers actually of this question called Jordan.

37:54Well, they are. Right, there you go. It all fits into place. I think the watchability score on Jordan at the World Cup will be quite high because, you know, a new nation and once managed by a great English manager in Harry Redknapp. Of course. But if you are going to be a true Irishman about it, you know what you've got to do. It's Argentina or Germany. That's what I'd do. Do you know why? Because fuck them, that's why. It's Argentina, Germany or whoever England they're playing. It's as simple as that. exactly yeah I think you're on safe ground with Argentina there we are thank you very much for listening to the Football Ramble part of the Acast Creator Network I'm back tomorrow with that guy Luke and Vish because the international break is here come on finally we can breathe again there we are please do send us your responses opinions and questions for next week's mailbag become a friend of the Ramble too and join the conversation on our Discord and remember the FSA Awards click the link in the show notes and vote for us for podcast of the year we bloody love it if you did Lots of love.

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