Mailbag: Have managers lost their flexibility?

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3:53It's Tuesday 14th of April, I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Jim Campbell. And I'm David Cartlidge.

4:09Hello everybody, welcome to the Mailbag on this terrific Tuesday at the Football Ramble. It's a pleasure to have you with us. We always welcome your questions. Message us on xbluesky or Instagram at footballramble. Comment on YouTube or email us show at footballramble.com. And of course, friends of the Ramble, you guys get priority. Patreon.com forward slash footballramble is where you can sign up or indeed you can sign up on YouTube as well. Plenty of ways to get involved with us on the mailbag. Now, before we get started with your questions for the mailbag, there is another way you can interact with us this week.

4:44Tomorrow, Lions Watch returns, and it will be streamed live on YouTube. So join us on YouTube at 12pm tomorrow. That's Wednesday the 15th of April tomorrow, and you'll have the chance to ask us a question about England ahead of the World Cup this summer. So search Football Ramble on YouTube, hit subscribe, and we'll see you live at 12pm tomorrow, Wednesday the 15th. Now then, on to the mailbag. We're going to start with this from Max Stevens. He's emailed us, Jim. And he's asking this, are modern managers more wedded to a style of play than ever before? We've seen a lot of managers take over at big clubs with seemingly no tactical flexibility.

5:23They have a set style they won't deviate from regardless of players, and they normally try to just sign players who have worked in their system before. Fans also know what a manager will bring before they arrive, and therefore judge the appointment on previous playing style rather than experience slash achievements. Jim Campbell I put that to you

5:43Jim Campbell: I think it's an interesting point I think there's a couple of obvious examples that this applies to which would be this season very much so one would be Ruben Amorim I think Thomas Frank yeah Thomas Frank I suppose another one and also I would say Xabi Alonso was going to be the other one I kind of had in mind because I think with the examples of Amorim and Alonso and obviously that was never going to work at Real Madrid because thousands of reasons that we could get into. I think there's a sense, isn't there, that football feels like it's kind of between cycles. So if there's a manager that comes along and they've got a quite unusual and unique system, bigger clubs are looking at that going, could this be the next like ticky-tacka?

6:27Jim Campbell: Could this be the next, yeah, geggen press? Could it be the next big thing that is going to be kind of unbeatable for a few seasons to come? So I think there's perhaps some thinking there along those lines. Obviously, Amirim coming into United and trying to force players who didn't quite fit that system into the system under the immense pressure that you're under at that club was always going to be difficult and was probably always going to be too much of a tall order for someone who is ultimately quite inexperienced. But I think, yeah, I think Max is correct. I think we are seeing certain managers who come with a brand, come with a branded style in a way that isn't completely unique.

7:08Jim Campbell: but I suppose he's the passing guy he's the he's the back three guy the back three guy or playing out the back guy or whatever yeah absolutely I mean the pragmatic guy in Thomas Frank's case absolutely I mean even pragmatism I mean pragmatism itself involves being it involves being adaptable doesn't it so and that itself is sort of seen as a selling point now so I think people are sort of keen to compartmentalise it in a sense in terms of knowing what they're going to get from a manager and obviously a key part of being a good manager is being tactically adaptable and being tactically flexible.

7:39Jim Campbell: I mean, Pep Guardiola's Man City have been different in every single season they've played because, you know, he changes things as he goes and that's true of every team he's ever managed and that's a big part of it. But I do think there is this kind of almost like fiending for something new and different. Would you agree with that, David? To an extent. I mean, what, if you look at the Premier League, let's say 90s, 2000s, what about, didn't Sam Allardyce get a lot of criticism for not changing up his style? and he wedded to his style. Only as things went on, though. I don't know. I think he was very much, he was very defensive of his style and when people said it's ugly, it's archaic, medieval, whatever it may be, he was very defensive of that and said, look, I haven't got these players so this is how I play.

8:26I'm sticking with this style. And I think his Bolton side gradually got different types of players, more technical players, JJ Karcher, for example. But you still knew what you were getting from a big Sam side. I'll take it another way with Harry Redknapp. Wasn't Harry Redknapp often seen as very naive? Or why doesn't he shut up shop a little bit more? Why does he want to play this old gung-ho type brand of football? So I would say they were wedded to their style in a way. Perhaps. I mean, I think managers have always had a bit of a style of play to an extent, but I think it's more accentuated now.

8:57I wonder if it's because we're living... And Jim, you could have alluded to it there. Pep Guardiola's come along and just changed football a lot. like so much of it. And I think that so many people try to replicate that. That, again, accentuated it more, the style of it. You win with that style and that kind of play. I mean, Chelsea under Mourinho, when they got Mourinho, they got him in because he was this incredible coach at Porto. And they got him in because he will win us things. And he did. And the style wasn't... Early Mourinho, I don't think, was that defensive. I think they scored quite a lot of goals.

9:37Jim Campbell: I think there's quite a lot of revisionism about that. They seem to win 4-0 very comfortably, very often. Yeah. And Mourinho became more apparent again as the years kind of went by. But there was talk of style. Apparently Abramovich wanted to win with style. And again, I think it was not even Pep Guardiola. You might even go back to Frank Reichardt. There was that kind of Barcelona way of doing things. It was very seductive. So I think that's accentuated it a bit. And that's probably maybe because prior to that in this country, and I do stress this country, we were living in an Alex Ferguson world.

10:13And Alex Ferguson's genius, Sir Alex Ferguson, I should say, his genius was reinventing the team so obviously and adapting to tactical trends and so on. What was Ferguson's style of play?

10:24Jim Campbell: Yeah, I mean, I suppose... Okay, I mean, Neville said they were a counter-attacking side. They were, but the thing is because I was going to say that that was the one consistent, right? And that will always be effective if you know how to play it. Because it's one of the most simple principles of a game that is fundamentally about space and taking advantage of it and creating it, right? And his genius was always being able to figure out how to do it regardless of what he was up against. I was going to say certain results kind of dictated to them. Remember we said in the first early Champions League game as a money out qualified, we were just not up to it.

10:57Even the smaller teams on the continent, IFK Gothenburgs and people like this, were more astute and aware. and he said we need to change things up. That's right. But I mean, if you asked anybody about Ferguson, what, most famous 4-4-2 wingers, you know? But that's what I mean. So I think why this question is fair and relevant, if I say from Max, is that again, it's been accentuated because we were living in that time of Ferguson. Because you're right, David, when you think of it, you think of those great 4-4-2 sides, but you think, he said his best side was with Rudy Tevez and Ronaldo up front.

11:29You know, not a conventional forward really, or striker among them, even though Ronaldo would later play that, Rooney could do it, and obviously Tem is a bit, but he mixed things up. So yes, they were a counter-attacking side. Gary Neville said, that's what, I'm not going to go against that. But it's odd to think of them as that. They didn't dominate football matches in the way that Guardiola's Manchester City did, but clearly they were an incredibly effective football team. And so I do think that it's always been there, but that accentuation, I keep going back to that word, that's happened, I think you also mentioned the word brand, Jim.

12:05I think the way football has gone with the elite level teams, it does feel a bit like a closed shop these days due to whether it is the financial rules locking that in, whether it's a bigger issue like globalisation, whatever you want to say, that there is really only a handful of teams that can realistically win the Champions League. You don't get a red style bell grade come from nowhere or whatever. and therefore I think in the age of that social media, PR being huge, your global brand being bigger than ever before for obvious reasons, to kind of have that style of play and people to kind of go, ah, that's that guy, that's what we know.

12:47I just think that inevitably goes with the territory.

12:50Jim Campbell: And actually, one of the sentences within the question is we've seen a lot of managers take over at big clubs with seemingly no tactical flexibility. which I think is an interesting way to look at this because that inflexibility isn't a plus point, is it? If you look at Carlo Ancelotti, even Luis Enrique, the flexibility within whatever challenge they're faced with and whatever the sort of tactical trends they have to adapt to, it's a big, big part of why those managers are so successful because they can think on their feet and they can adapt. And that is a style within itself, isn't it? But it doesn't neatly fit into boxes and it's better for it.

13:29Well, I'm glad you mentioned Angelotti. It's one of the obvious ones. What is his style of play? Winning. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? No, that's literally... Any Real Madrid player who has an interview, they say, oh, he did little tactical work. It was the same one as the Dan. It was more about massaging egos and such rather than too much focus on the tactical elements. Well, there's a lot of coaches now who have very heavy video sessions and what have you. So you might have a day of training where you don't kick a ball. you go and watch video sessions of tactics. I wonder how prevalent that was.

13:58Well, so the game's changed, clearly. So maybe you're saying that because the game is tacticked to within an inch of its life now, arguably, at the expense of your playmakers and your mavericks, which is why we've enjoyed Ryan Cherney this season, a little bit more of a throwback, you might argue, maybe it is so difficult to change it up because you're just not as well drilled. And the opposition have so much more information that, again, the way they're drilled, they kind of think, well, this team have only practiced this for a few days or a couple of weeks. I mean, you look at Arna Slott's change to a back three against PSG.

14:31You know. Felt like desperation. It did feel like desperation. And I thought, well, he had to change something. Don't know if I'd have gone for that personally. But I absolutely hammered for it because you get the idea of changing up. Whereas look at Arsenal with so many people desperate for Arteta to try and do something different. And he doesn't seem to be able to do it.

14:52Jim Campbell: Yeah. And I wonder if, we obviously don't want to talk about Arsenal too much because we've spoken about them a lot yesterday. I wonder if actually they are an example of a team where they have so much information and so much data that they've gone blind to it and actually don't know what to do. I think a lot of teams are obsessed with control. A lot of managers are obsessed with control. They want to control every single element of the game. And they want to look at a midfield battle and judge how they can win it in every single way. So it's not just a case of stick a foot in, get your foot on the ball like it used to be.

15:20Now they want to look at every piece of data, every single tactical nuance and say we can control that and control that and control that and it kills a lot of the fun in the game itself No I do I agree with that and I think tactics go into phases as we've seen this season you know certain things sort of come back and you know trying to get a bit more chaos in there with your long throw or whatever it may be

15:41Jim Campbell: Chaos with Ed Miliband that's what the Premier League needs You're damn right Jim but the way football teams they sign younger players because that idea of pressing the physicality you know we've all got to do this we've all got to do that so there's certain things that teams are expected to do at certain levels and if a manager you go actually no no no we're not going to do that then it seems crazy and yet the outlier of these teams like Real Madrid for example you mentioned it there Xavi Alonso I thought well okay they want to work themselves they want a modern style and all the rest of it it didn't work but then they are an outlier themselves because they clearly want the player whisperer like Zidane Ancelotti they want vibes yeah and should we give them credit for that maybe I don't know absolutely it seems ridiculous to say but there are some teams and I think you probably throw Chelsea in this mix as well where they behave in a way that is quite mad and should not work and lead to regular success and yet it does and just culturally sometimes these things work for certain clubs and Real Madrid are obviously we always joke about house always wins when they pull a result out that is how they see themselves they basically see themselves as the kings of football and they're in a financial position obviously in a cultural position where it's very easy for them to constantly reinforce that view.

16:55Jim Campbell: So it is probably, managing Kylian Mbappe is very different from managing a lot of other players and they essentially just accept that. So I suppose if you try and impose a different type of style where he has to track back a bit, it's not necessarily going to work. No, not in Luis Enrique's PSG. It's not going to work. No. And they've reaped the reward to that. So yeah, good question, Max. Yeah, good question. yeah really gave us food for thought there well let us know as I say in the comments and you can always respond to our answers as well it don't always have to be necessarily new topics you know if you disagree with any of that and what not then get in touch pop it on a bed sheet leave it outside the studio there we are you see or chant at us as we leave the studio we will take anything coming up after this would a relegation playoff be good for the Premier League

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21:10Jim Campbell: so Jason has been in touch Jason is the same guy who asked a question about a manager transfer window last week so if you've had a question on the show don't think you won't get another question on the show Jason's struck gold twice here gold Jason's got an email on the show twice here he asks would you back a Premier League relegation playoff the rules are simple 19th and 20th are automatically relegated 15th 16th 17th and 18th enter the playoff after 38 games played. The playoff is actually more of a mini league with the loser being relegated. Should there be two teams on level points? We look to goal difference and goals for like the normal league.

21:47Jim Campbell: Should all games finish one all? Whoever scored their first goal last loses. Should all games finish nil nil? We look to either fair play rules or XG. That would help with the issue from last season where the three new teams always look most likely to go down and then teams like Spurs and United would have had to actually fight for something instead of their shocking seasons going unpunished. I'm sure you can tell I'm an Arsenal fan and I'm trying my best to create a scenario where Spurs get relegated. Fair enough. David, what do you think of that? I honestly, I'm going to shock you here, but I honestly don't hate it for some reason.

22:18Oh yeah, I don't hate any of it until I got to the last bit where it said, well, look on the XG of third player rules. That is ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, that is. But with the rest of it, I actually quite like. Do you? That's quite tasty. Yeah, yeah, as a traditionalist, I honestly quite enjoy that. Yeah, yeah, I'd be willing to see for a season, see what happens.

22:34Jim Campbell: Because, yeah, the idea of making it a mini league rather than an actual sort of more traditional playoff is interesting, isn't it? I think, like, if you're going to... It's like the Scotland split. Yeah, exactly. I feel like in the idea of fairness, right, if you finish 15th and there's still a chance of you going down, that sort of makes a mockery of the points you got and the way the league works. And, you know, understandably, very, very few teams would want that. But from a neutral point of view, in terms of entertainment. It would be spectacular. Well, it's, you know, to flip it but stay in the same kind of realm is the playoffs.

23:11They're always great. The team who finishes sixth, why should they go up instead of the team that finishes third? Or eighth. Well, indeed. But we like the playoffs. One of my favourite things in football. Yeah. I don't think anybody is, especially if you win it, David, it's great, isn't it? But you've got to make sure you win it because losing the playoff finals is the worst game to lose in football, but it's the best one to win, I would argue. I think that this is... I don't think a relegation playoff would be good for the Premier League. Call me a traditionalist. I think the way is good. One of the worries we have is that the promoted teams go straight back down.

23:47I don't think anybody would argue that's good for the league. It's also rare though. It is rare, but I don't think you should... I think promoted teams clearly have a tough time when they go up to the Premier League because of the disparity between the Premier League and the Championship. Now, you might argue that a relegation playoff like this, a team who finished 15th, that would be good for the Premier League. I just think there's too much going on there. I think if you finish 15th and you are... Imagine if... Look at Sunderland this season. But, you know, Burnley went up on their shoestring budget and so on, and they managed to finish 15th, and they still went down.

24:26Leeds are currently 15th. Okay, there you go. so thank you a better yeah much better makes you try hard at the bitter end and like he's he's pointed out though about running out in Spurs kind of you know being punished for just slopping around basically keep your power to draw on Spurs by the way they may well go down in the traditional here we are but I think the Spurs I mentioned I think I think is that's just so rare and again the way the league table was I mean you're trying to tell me that the team who finished 18th deserved to have another crack at it by the end of the season They were down.

24:59They were gone. So I think that the three going down works. To me, and I know Jason hasn't mapped it out like this, is would a Bundesliga-style relegation playoff be worthwhile? I also think ultimately no. But that is something, I bring that in because I think a lot of people would think, hang on a bit, but there is a different type of relegation playoff where the side who would finish maybe 18th in the Premier League to try and convert it to Premier League would go to a playoff against. Team who finished third, it would be, wouldn't it, in the championship? Yes. I see. I really don't like that.

25:32But then again, that would sort of... You lose the playoffs, right? Well, you lose the playoffs. You can't have the team who finished second in the championship having to play another bloody game. You know, like, come on. So ultimately, any type of relegation playoff, I think I'm against, to be honest with you. I think the jeopardy is the playoffs in the championship. I think if you finish in the bottom three of the Premier League, my team's done it a number of times. You know, like, that's it. I don't think you should get another chance. Sounds harsh. Again, call me a traditionalist. I don't think it's a ridiculous thing to explore these ideas.

26:06Oh, yeah. Don't make it wrong. I don't want this to happen. I just quite like it. I think it's interesting. I think there's a cruelty to a relegation playoff. Yes. In a way that there isn't with the playoffs, though. Because if you lose the playoff in the championship, as sickening as that is, it's right. Well, back to it next season.

26:25Jim Campbell: You're right. because we often talk about the fabled neutral and I wonder how much kind of credence we should give to this fabled neutral. But it's not bringing the best out of that neutral, is it? It's like, dance for me, idiots! I think that's what I'm getting at. Who is the best shit one? Yeah, exactly. I think that's it. That's exactly how Arsenal fans would watch this relegation playoff. But there we are. Good question though, Jason. Indeed. And our next question is from Van de Graam. on Instagram is there any possible reason why Keith Andrews is not the manager of the season no I don't think there is well I mean this could be a season in which Pep Guardiola wins a domestic treble right yeah bollocks to him though he's very important but if he doesn't so I I think fair like clearly if he's on a domestic treble you know he's within his rights I think I might be off the manager of the season as well however imagine if he didn't get it and he quit that was the reason he said he was going to go anyway because of what he's done before we know the highs that he can achieve so I think some people might say that's horrifically unfair to do that your previous achievements mean so maybe that's not the best reasoning that does happen in the same way that Erling Arland doesn't ever seem to be seriously considered for the Ballon d 'Or which is of course ridiculous as well rightly so you think yeah I completely agree I would not have anyone here get your questions in but with Man City I think that much has been made about how this title race as much as I've enjoyed it and so on you've not got two teams who are performing in a way that we've seen recently in title races there would be an argument that if Arsenal get over the line Arteta's got to be in the conversation because he's done it but again I don't think they've inspired and sort of sparkled, if you like.

28:28Carrick's not been there long enough. His predecessor, certainly not. You know, I'm looking at the teams around Brentford, say. Aston Villa and I.M.R.E., yeah, they're doing well, but no, Arna Slott, it's ridiculous that I've even mentioned his name. And then, you know, Herzl has had a good... I think we're all said and done. I think the two candidates are LeBrie and Andrews. Yeah. Because of what Sunderland have done this season has been absolutely brilliant. They are in contention. And you might argue that if only one of those sides got a European place, that could clinch it. But I think with those two teams, and again, if Farker kept Leeds up, you might maybe argue, but I think you're getting a little bit generous there.

29:13I think Farker's more of a man of the year candidate. Yeah, there you go. GQ's man of the year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Labrie and Andrews are the two. But I would go with Andrews currently, not because they're a point above them. I just think that...

29:31Jim Campbell: He was a set-piece coach last season. Yeah, I just... You look at the lack of... Thomas Frank was one this season.

29:41Exactly, yeah. And maybe he'll get a big job through it. I don't know. But I think with what Brentford have done, it has amazed so many people. and and it's one of those ones where you think bloody hell anything can be achieved really for a lot of teams in that pack so yeah I think with the inexperience he's shown first season as a manager in the Premier League blah blah blah he would be my number one but I think there's an argument for Libri as well and I think for Irola

30:11Jim Campbell: you think? did they not have too much of a kind of drop off that means they're now in 11th he's shown a bit though before in the Premier League but we're saying give it to Keith Andrews and they're only two points behind Brentford fair and they lost their best player look how much they lost in the summer as well yeah but did you think Bournemouth the whole defence basically yeah you're right the player was going every single week but where did you think Bournemouth were going to finish at the start of the season realistically you thought mid-table didn't you I did but to continue no it's an achievement that's the thing when you're plundered every summer but you still manage to maintain are plundered more than Brentford?

30:44I think so I think they were plundered more I think Brentford's a bloody manager I mean the whole thing looked like it was going to shit

30:52Jim Campbell: they lost their manager their captain and their kind of key forward or two key forwards say that again Jim that's all they lost Bournemouth lost their entire defence and then they lost their best player in January they still had him till January still half a season they've been better since they lost him yeah fine Iriano's a great man I don't want to undo his achievements but it's not his first season in the Premier League we've seen what we're going to do so I suppose I am going to look at your previous achievements. No, no, hang on. Do a bit more, Anthony. It's not good enough. Come on, you want that nice shiny award?

31:28It's dance, idiots. I'm surprised you haven't mentioned your Sunderland boss. Oh, no. Honestly, he's been absolutely fantastic. So would you say Iriola ahead of him then? You can't say that, surely. I would go. This is my choice. I'd go Iriola, Libri, Andrews.

31:45Jim Campbell: I'm very surprised. Yeah, same. But David makes a good point. Bournemouth are only two points behind Brentford in Bournemouth's football as well Bournemouth play a particular brand of football I like as well I think that's a key that also adds to it I agree and I think again it is previous achievements despite me sort of scoffing at my own point earlier actually I'm going to I'm going to undo the scoff and I'm going to say that actually you have an experienced Premier League manager now in Iriola and right now this is kind of what I thought they would do I wasn't married at all for Bournemouth despite losing those players Brentford and Sunderland I thought what on earth are they going to do that's fair Brentford had to really rebuild the side they got new I think that is the inexperience of the manager Sunderland I think well worthy of or LeBru is well worthy of the manager but Jimmy so who would your David's laid the gauntlet down who are your top three I'll put my three my top three Andrews, LeBru and Marco Silva and then we'll see maybe okay fine I'll stick here taking no I'm going to stick David Moyes at number three taking Guardiola out of the equation right just because it's boring for this hypothetical.

32:51Jim Campbell: Well, I think, you know. All right, well, no. I mean, he has to be in there. So it would probably be... Could end up tropheless. It obviously depends. Well, they've already got the Carabao, mate. Oh, yeah. Could end up with just one muggy little trophy. Muggy. I've already forgotten about it. Go on. Obviously, we don't know how the season's going to pan out. Right here, right now. Right here, right now, I think it will end up being Guardiola. I do. behind that I would have Andrews and I would probably so obviously Sunderland are a well-run club and I think that's true of both Brentford and Bournemouth and that's the fundamental kind of story behind all of these picks but I think to get a team promoted I think I'd have him over at Areola because yeah yeah yeah I think I would so they'd be my top three I like Areola a lot okay but right here and now you think second place Pep Guard I'm going to be the manager of the season just remind you yeah yeah you know where you can see what's on my horizon mentally can't you wow oh dear me right there you go coming up after this which football league club would we plop in the Premier League

34:42We'll be right back. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. Hi, this is Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman. Spring means literally to burst forth, to grow, and that's what we're talking about both in our kitchens and at Whole Foods Market. Freshness and seasonality is what's happening at Whole Foods Market right now. With the season's first new potatoes, spring onions, artichokes, favas, snap peas, radishes, spinach, and other spring greens, and more. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring and save at Whole Foods Market.

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35:57Welcome back, everybody. Right, this question here from Andy Evans on email. Would you really rather your team don't win so it hinders your rivals' hopes of a league title or relegation survival? I saw some Chelsea fans saying they'd rather lose against Manchester City on Sunday because that would hinder Arsenal's title bid, of course. Also, surely fans want their rivals not to be relegated. A rivalry is a huge part of a team's season. Now, we had this when Spurs, under Ange Postacoglu, faced Manchester City at home, whatever it was, two, three seasons ago, and Arsenal were going for the league title.

36:33And a lot of Spurs fans were saying, I'd be very happy if we lost this game, despite Spurs going for Champions League qualification. And Ange Postacoglu thought it was small time. He couldn't understand it. And we're seeing this now a little bit more on social media and blah, blah, blah. But as Andy says, Chelsea fans were certainly saying that with regard to their game against Man City on Sunday. David, I want to come to you first. What do you think of this? Is it just small time or do you totally understand why a fan wouldn't want to, say, help out Newcastle United with a Sunderland result or something like that?

37:11It depends what my own team had on the line. Right. let's just take this weekend for instance Chelsea have still got Champions League on the line and I think that's quite important to them so I wouldn't want to lose that game as a Chelsea fan looking at my own team my own team first but I do if we had nothing on the line and Newcastle were about to win the title go on lads have a look up some holidays don't worry about the game packy bags that sort of thing but I would not but then the last part of the question I would not want Newcastle to go down at all You like that derby game? I love that derby.

37:46Probably inevitably. Six points. I love that derby. And I'll tell you what, maybe it's a bit of my granddad's influence as well. He always used to say to me, I want to see the North East clubs do well. Yeah. So I like to see Newcastle up there. I like to see, obviously, I don't want to see Sunland up there. Sure. And Middlesbrough as well, which probably, you know, so yeah, yeah, I want to see Middlesbrough up there as well. But that's definitely, that's a regional thing, definitely. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Because London clubs, of course, they haven't got that. Yeah, yeah. You know, for obvious reasons.

38:09but I definitely understand that point. What about you then, Jim, with regards to this question? Because, again, Arsenal obviously tend to be better off in the league than Spurs and so on and so forth. But there was a season when, obviously, Leicester ended up winning the title and Arsenal and Spurs were both in the hunt as well. I mean, could you have envisaged a time when, or could you imagine wanting Arsenal to lose a game because Spurs would be helped by that?

38:38Jim Campbell: As David said, the only scenario, and I think it's actually worth pointing out that I don't think there is any club in the world where the majority view would be that you would rather lose to damage your rival, I think. Like, it's certainly in the context that you put it rightly, David. So say that again. So the majority... If your club's in a situation where losing a game would hurt your rivals but also hurt you, I think the majority of fans would still want their team to win. I think it's kind of a bit... Because sometimes what happens in the age of social media is a few fans say, I'd rather we lose.

39:12Jim Campbell: And then the suggestion is put forward that every Chelsea fan, every Spurs fan... I think it's just a couple of morons. It's some morons online. I think that's worth pointing out. The context is key. Yeah, the context is key. So if Arsenal had ambitions for anything, even if it was a Europa Conference League spot, I would obviously want them to win that game. And what you do is, because you're hypothesising the whole time, you would just hope that Spurs or whoever would mess it up on their own. But yeah, I think I would never actively hope for Arsenal to lose a game. If they did lose a game and it didn't benefit Spurs or Chelsea or whoever, I would absolutely enjoy the silver lining of that.

39:54Jim Campbell: Because why not? There is something to lose and it has been lost. So why not be petty about it? Again, it doesn't bring out the best in you, does it, football, a lot of the time. It really, really does kind of speak to your sort of pettiest, kind of most small-minded kind of outlooks. I remember a game back in 2014 when Man City went to Goodison Park and it would have been Brendan Rodgers-Liverpool going for the title, I think. Yeah. But it was definitely Liverpool. It probably would have been Brendan Rodgers. And obviously Liverpool wanted Everton to do them a favour. And I remember in that game, I think Ross Barkley scored an absolute beauty to make them go 1-0 up.

40:38And I remember just watching on the TV, the home crowd obviously cheered the goal. And the atmosphere was very different to what normally happens if you go up. It was kind of like, yeah, okay, just don't get another one, lads.

40:53Jim Campbell: You know, it was very palpable. And I suppose it's easy for me to sit here and say, oh, of course, I would never want to see my team lose. But I guess you only really know if you're in that situation, right? You'd probably surprise yourself. Well, I had sympathy with that particular example with Spurs playing Man City when Arsenal were trying to win the league. I have sympathy with Postacola going, what on earth are you going on about? There's a chance for Champions League. That'll be huge for us next season. But as we know with all managers, they're not there for a long time. The fans are. And I have enormous sympathy for those fans thinking, but if Arsenal win the league, they will lord it up over us.

41:31And they have an enormous vested interest and Arsenal a lot losing the league so yeah as you say Jim football brings the best worst and the weirdest out in everybody

41:40Jim Campbell: and we've been giving each other silver linings this weekend so it's a rare moment of unity in North London at the moment and what about Spurs getting relegated Jim where you're at on that oh I absolutely want it to happen you've had loads of North London because it would be really really funny but right I think of our mutual friend Scott who's a dear friend of both of ours and he is a Tottenham fan and a great, great guy. I will be very, very sad for him in particular and a few other people I know, you know, one of our members of this very parish as well. I would want them to basically come straight back up.

42:15Jim Campbell: Maybe if they messed it up at the first try and didn't come up first time, that would also be funny. But I'd want them to come back. Lose the playoff final and then the next season? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be exceptionally funny. And, you know, they would think it the other way around and I would absolutely respect that as well. But I wouldn't want them to sort of like just be gone altogether. the derbies are great they're awful for like like when you lose them and often when you when you're watching them happen they're like really unenjoyable experiences oh yeah yeah absolutely but it's about that massive release of energy and joy at the end isn't it to lose the derby like that and like I said we've only just got our hours back and I know it's felt like not having it and then obviously for quite a few years we've had Middlesbrough our main derby it just isn't the same with all respect the Middlesbrough just doesn't feel the same you want your main rivals there but again that's the context because you didn't have it for ages whereas Arsenal a season or two would be funny and also because it's you know it's such a ridiculous situation if you take it away from the actual rivalry there's a fascination there isn't it we've never had a situation like this really where a club of that size has been relegated when there's not been some external mad context such as you know like real financial trouble or whatever and there's a sort of it's almost like it's almost like Leicester winning the league isn't it but the relegation version of it it's like how I can't look away from this insane situation.

43:32Jim Campbell: I still think, actually, Spurs just need one win and then they'll turn it around. I still feel like that's very, very possible. But they don't seem capable of getting it. Well, it's the mailbag, not the preview show. Indeed. You've got the last question, though, Jim. I do have the last question. It's from Ewan Kosh. And Ewan asks, if you could pick any of the 72 EFL clubs to put in the Premier League for one season, who would it be? Oh, Wrexham. Let's get a documentary out of it. I'm joking, David. raise the profile of the Premier League just for the listener I was wanting to lean across the table and slap Marcus I was not happy with the answer my temptation is to say Millwall just to say well they're having a go they're having a go because I just I was saying this before the show I just can't imagine Millwall in the Premier League do you know what I mean and if you've been to the ground like it is look I know that there's some unsavoury stuff that's happened down there but to be fair to them as a club they fight really hard against that reputation they do and they do a lot of work to counter it Yeah, but it is a great community club.

44:32And it is a very special place. So that in the Premier League, I think would be incredible. Although I'd be worried they might lose something.

44:43Salford City, because Gary and I would have to commentate on them. That'd be fun. Salford City v Man United. Where do you lose? He's like Gary. Jamie Carragher would love it, wouldn't he? He would absolutely love it. And they need a helping hand, let's be honest. Or MK Dons, just to annoy Andy Brass. That'd be good. Yeah, I was going to say, AFC Wimbledon

45:00Jim Campbell: but AFC before your answer go on Milton Keynes have a team in the top light it's basically the team he used to support isn't it what's the problem yeah so fuck it wow incredible what about you David Middlesbrough then presumably get the North East boys back yeah Middlesbrough and Millwall Millwall for the same reasons you just said right and then Middlesbrough for North East don't think bloody London teams in the Premier League need a few more Northern teams remember where you live don't you buddy alright okay God don't bite the hand of feet it's grim down south I jest of course no yeah fair I totally get that yeah so the current bottom team of League 2 are Harrogate Town so I just bang push them right up a lottery win give them the team yeah exactly would they be lottery louts they would be they would be lotto louts yeah it'd be amazing I don't know what their nickname is It'd be like Michael Cole.

46:00We're spending money on playing. Yeah, we've got a whole team from South America now.

46:04Jim Campbell: We're spending it on banger racing and cocaine. We're like the first lot allowed. So yeah, you obviously get the TV money and all that stuff. It would be a catch injection. It would be so interesting. Basically, could they get more than 11 points? Beat that Derby record. Who would you get in? What would your transfer strategy be? Now that is a documentary, Ryan Reynolds. Get on that. Yeah, true enough. Next season, we might well say Spurs, for Arsenal's sake, to get the derby back. Or not. Yeah, true. All right, you're sticking to your guns. I like it. Thanks very much for listening to the Football Ramble, part of the ACARS Creator Network.

46:37I'm going to be back tomorrow with Vish and Luke. We're going to talk about Champions League things, I'd imagine. So get on that. So we look forward to speaking to you then. Until then, thank you, Jim. Thank you. Thank you, David. Thank you. See you tomorrow.

46:58The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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