Mailbag: How should we judge Arne Slot’s second season?

0:00Hello everybody, welcome to the Football Rabble Mailbag. Jabby Alonso Harry Wilson and the crowd are the orders of the day it's Tuesday 27th of January I'm Marcus Speller I'm Luke Moore and I'm Jim Campbell

0:24Oi oi everybody good to have you here for the mailbag the maily bee as some of you affectionately call it remember you can ask us anything for this show get in touch on x blue sky instagram at football ramble comment on youtube email us show at football ramble.com and of course friends of the ramble get priority patreon.com forward slash football ramble or sign up on youtube now gentlemen let's open the bag and another way winston postman ray yeah let's have a go. Paddy has been in touch on Insta and Paddy asks this. If this was Arna Slott's first season in charge of Liverpool, how would it be viewed?

1:05It's a really good question. It is. I suppose it's worth having a little sense check, isn't it? So Liverpool currently sixth in the Premier League and fourth in the Champions League. I personally think that it would be viewed as a bit of a disaster, really, to be honest. I think it's tempting to look at it and think, oh, he'd have more kind of patience and more time allowed but it's that run of defeats isn't it I think starting in September they had a run of four Premier League defeats in a row, they also lost to Galatasaray in the Champions League and lost 3-0 to Crystal Palace in the Carabao in that period and I think that kind of level of chaos would be too much for a new manager to weather without people asking serious questions about whether he's got the chops for the job they're in another bad run now as well which certainly wouldn't help look at his chops I'm a big fan of them actually he looks like a real grown up jelly baby somehow which is different from a man I was going to say a ruddy faced butcher's boy I don't think he's ruddy faced he's got a bit of red about him isn't he I think he looks, his colour is consistent right from chin to back of the head, maybe the red of the Liverpool shirt is reflecting onto him Possibly.

2:20A lot of stage makeup there. I think he looks smooth and beautiful. Okay. The jelly baby shout is a good one. Yeah, thank you. But he's got clothes on, crucial. Yeah, he does. So you think it would be a disaster? Disaster with a lowercase d, because I don't think he would be... It's not proper now anyway. I don't think he would have been sacked at this point. But I don't think the prevailing narrative would be, oh, hey, we have to give him time. I think the run of the defeats, I think another situation is the amount of money that's been spent on the players that they've brought in I think the narrative around him would be oh well he simply doesn't know how to integrate them into the team now we know that from last season that there is something unusual happening at Liverpool this season and we keep referring back to it and I think we need to keep folding it into the context the situation with Diago Jota is full of unknowns and it is something that is going to be very difficult for everybody at the club to deal with and to respond to so I mean, that has to, again, be figured into it as well.

3:19But yeah, I think he'd be under a similar amount of pressure. That's interesting. Well, the reality is that he's got credit in the bank because of that league title win and because Liverpool are pretty good at sticking by managers in the grand scheme of things, right? That's the two vital pieces of information. But I think it always comes down to what has come before you, right? Because when Klopp came in, first couple of seasons, or however you want to look at it, he came in... part of the season. Yeah. They didn't come near winning the league, right? But then, obviously, that's where they were.

3:50Exactly. And people don't see them as being there now. People see them as being, you know, traditionally, if you can make the last five or six seasons traditional, they're one of the two best teams in the country by far, right? Now, we've had a slight change in that because Arsenal have had a resurgence and, you know, Man City, you're fond of, Marcus, Chief Commissioning Officer of the, of the, Pep Guardiola hater club. Hey, you give those charges to me, don't worry, I'll have them banged up by the end of the day. Yeah, exactly. Get him on the job. Things always change, but the point being, the context of Islok coming in is that he was taken over a team right at the very top of their game and Klopp felt like he'd run out of road and he wanted to do something different.

4:36Well, they'd finished third, of course. They had, but then they finished, they had, you know, regularly they have seasons off under Klopp. There's a couple of times, two or three times when that happened. So look, it is contextual is what I'm saying, but definitely if Arnestlott's first season was this season, it would be a much bigger test of the hierarchy at Liverpool because he hasn't got that credit in the bank. Now, they are a club, I think, generally, who stick with managers more than maybe some other clubs do. Definitely for a top club. If they could see the progress and they could see that he's made a lot of signs that he's got a bed in, he's brought some quality in, and the Diogo Jota thing does feel distasteful to mention, but as Jim rightly says, you have to mention it.

5:14If they end up, I honestly think if they end up finishing fourth this season, which isn't a gimme at all at this point, but if they did, back in the Champions League, a reset, a rebuild, I don't think that would necessarily be the worst thing in the world. The issue is, I think they've got some players now who are coming towards the end. A Salah, a Van Dijk, and these aren't just any old players. They are players who've been colossally important to them, and Slott's got to manage that. And before I chuck back to you, Marcus, the final thing I wanted to say was, don't forget as well that Arnaz Slott is a relatively inexperienced manager at the top level and they probably hired him because they saw the potential, they listened to him speak when he was interviewing for the role, they heard about his plans and they backed him and they wanted him to do well.

5:59I think in that situation, if you hire Arnaz Slott on that basis and fire him five, six months into a season, it makes you look like you've not done your duty at all. It doesn't make him necessarily look that bad. So there's a lot at play here I think it would be viewed averagely at best but because he's taken the team to a Premier League title and they're not a team who win a lot of Premier League titles despite how big they are that's part of it I do think though the thing is with clubs like Liverpool there's so much noise around them when they go on a bad run like this that I think there would be a quite kind of frenzied reaction from certain sections even saying it as a bad run tells its own story because they haven't lost one game in about 15 I think there's one thing But I'm referring more to the run earlier in the season.

6:44Well, again, depending on how beardy you want to be about this, you know, in Klopp's last season. The fact is he took over after Klopp. It was a huge, there were huge shoes to fill. You're right to say, obviously, about Klopp when he started there, he was given time. He needed to be given time. But with Klopp, you could see little improvements. You could see that. The reason why I think this would be, and I agree with your point, average at best, not a disaster, but average at best, is because I think people would understand that there would be huge shoes to fill. But the negative points are the money they spend, blah, blah, blah.

7:19People say it's the playing style. People are getting pissed off. It's the one thing. And if, you know, obviously the question is hypothetical. We know what they did last season. This season, it's just, it's nowhere near the same. But even if you forget last season, coming off the back of Jurgen Klopp's teams that were traditionally very exciting and played great football. I think that's one thing actually now that they're used to that and they want to keep that. People can scoff at certain clubs for saying, oh, you want to play Spurs, Tadaris, to do all the West Ham way and so on and so forth.

7:54For a club like Liverpool, where they are right now, you can continue that theme of we play in an exciting, attacking kind of way. And yes, you want to win games, but if you can win games, you can win them well. My goodness, life is very, very good. and they've had that by and large in the last handful of seasons. And of course, outside of this hypothetical situation, they have had that on the slot as well, which is worth mentioning. Well, indeed, yeah. So I think that the Liverpool fans now are saying, look, it's a bit boring to watch them. You see them, they're pedestrian. And so I think that if it carried on like this, yes, you could say finishing fourth, you know, there are two points off fourth currently.

8:37I think it would be more of a relief I think to get fourth rather than feel like an achievement and I think that again within the hypothetical nature of this question I think maybe you could say right Arna you've managed to finish fourth you've got all these players we've given you a season because of as Luke's point as many people have said they don't sack managers regularly right you can go into next season but you have to make us more exciting and if not then he'll fall the way that Brendan Rodgers felt. But they hired Slott presumably because they thought when we hired Klopp, it was a long-term thing.

9:17He got the club. He's so set himself with the club and he feels like a real big part of their overall story now. And I think they're always keen to replicate that because they could have gone out there and just got a really, really big name manager because they're Liverpool. They got Slott presumably for the same reasons they wanted Klopp. so if that's the case then unless it gets disastrously bad they're not going to change anyway but I think the style the style of the team is important now because of what Klopp did I don't think they want to become say what we've seen I don't know to just quickly single one like Chelsea who very different club well no identity really well that might be a touch harsh they had identity under Mourinho but not since then fine but in the point of Chelsea I think yeah of course they want to see a tackle football it was always when Roman Abramovich was in charge, that was what he always wanted to do and try and win and win with style.

10:09But they're great achievements, of course, you would say, in terms of Di Matteo winning the Champions League, you know, or one or two others. It was always kind of like, get the job done. And if we do it with style, okay. I think Liverpool now, I think they want both. And I understand that totally. So I think his first season in charge, right now, I think it would be average at best. They used to be pass and move, it's a Liverpool groove. Indeed. Maybe they want that back. Yeah. Well, we could talk about this until the cows come home. I can see them at the end of the road, so let's keep talking.

10:38Do they come home in a hypothetical question? I think they never do, do they? Also, earlier, Marcus... They're all over the place, really, hypothetically. Marcus said people scoff at the West Ham way or playing Spurs. I was just thinking no one really scoffs anymore, do they? No, it's true. Scoffing has kind of gone out of our modern discourse. It has. To the point where I don't even know what a scoff sounds like now. I recently learned the word scofflaw, which is a person or organisation essentially just doesn't much care for the rules and will gladly flout them. Jim, I think that's Scott's law.

11:10I see, I see. You consider yourself the scofflaw of the ramble? Yeah, I reckon so. Probably Pete, isn't it, really? Yeah, it's absolutely Pete. Andrew has been in touch on Discord and asks, now that Xabi Alonso is available, how nervous should Arnest Lott be? It's a good, it's a great addendum. It's a great kind of similar theme, isn't it? I would say that if you are a manager at the very top level, unless you're hitting your straps and you're really, you know, bringing home the bacon, you should always be worried about that. What is the bacon? Premier League title? I think it's any trophy. Well, he's already brought home that bacon, hasn't he?

11:43Yeah, yeah. What's the gammon? Champions League. Absolutely. And for those who don't know, Marcus holds gammon up on a pedestal. Which is why when people... You think gammon's the best food out there? It's one of... Steak made of pig. Oh, yeah. Pig steak. Even when it's bad, it's magnificent. You know? If it's really, really overcooked, it's dry and horrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I would... What's the most overcooked gammon you'd accept? Because it gets like a bit of shoe leather after a while. Like it's just black. Yeah. Yeah, if they've cooked it to the point of it's like sort of a brown colour, I go, ah, go on, give us a bite, you bastard.

12:17So how would you prefer it? Boiled or fried? Because people boil it, don't they? They do, whatever. You take it anyway. Whatever you want. You're an absolute dream guest, isn't you? Take a super bacon, however. I would prefer fried egg on it. Pineapple's an odd one. I've never figured that out. I like pineapple on it. I don't mind it, but it's just quite odd, I think. He's the bacon boy. That was the gateway drug, wasn't it? Totally. I just don't like... Did you ever graduate to Gammon? Was that ever an option? To sell that door-to-door? It wasn't, hence we moved to England. He literally started out...

12:43We moved ourself for more opportunities. He started out just smoking it, the bacon, and then he started mainlining the Gammon, didn't he? Yeah. For new listeners, Marcus genuinely used to sell bacon door-to-door when he was a young boy from a bucket while wearing a little butcher's apron. unsmoked 148 smoked 152 correct always worth reminding new listeners about everything everything Jim and Luke just said is genuinely true people used to let you keep the change do you know what some of them so if it was like 148 they give you£1.50 you get to keep 2p no no some of them want 2p change Scotland innit it was the 90s in Scotland a lot of money back then yeah why do you think Edinburgh got so wealthy yeah but put it on the back of bacon slaves like Marcus I had to escape get south of Adrian's Wall you'll love it there's none of this going on there did you bring bacon to England I think so I think so because Peter Schmeichel was selling it the Danish bacon let's have some of our own thank you very much no but I just don't the point I wanted to make was I don't like that gammon is used as a slur for for people oh fine use another word it's not in defence of the people is it it's in defence of the bacon correct it's because their head looks like a big gammon isn't it that's what they say but it's disrespectful it's disrespectful to the two I would agree with you but I would go all the way with you about how much Gammon is great but I do still think it's great right okay good we're all agreed so yeah Javi Alonso next Liverpool manager for me yeah being serious though the point I made is that you would always be nervous about this kind of stuff right if you were at the top level as a manager I think this moment in time it feels like it would be very surprising if the next Liverpool manager wasn't Javi Alonso but these things move really quickly don't they so to me it would have to happen I don't think Slott's going to get sacked before the end of the season.

14:24I don't think even if they were looking unlikely to qualify for Champions League. I think they'd have to go out early and fall quite far behind in the league. And I don't think that's likely to happen. But do you not think, though, it would be a little bit of a disaster if you can have just a little bit of a disaster if Liverpool don't qualify for the Champions League? Lowercase D disaster. There you go. If they don't qualify for the Champions League, because they've been there for so long now. And not only is it financially rewarding, also in terms of attracting new players. now I know they've spent a fortune on players recently but still but that will come into it though won't it well it will so I think that would be that would be huge so if yeah the club will have to make a decision in the coming months if they look unlikely to qualify for the Champions League but generally in the general doings I don't think Slott will be sacked before the end of the season despite but if things don't improve and I think this stylistic approach is really getting on the nerves of a lot of Liverpool fans if Alonso is still available in the summer we know what he can do with the club he didn't work at Real Madrid because Real Madrid is mad and they're all wearing crowns and they're like well we're not taking our we're not running well to be fair they did it a little bit but it didn't happen at Real Madrid at Liverpool they are crying out for a manager to get a very very sweet tune out of these players and I don't think Slott's doing it yeah and I think one thing that really kind of you know would be a bit of a concern for Slott is that Alonso clearly knows how to get a tune out of Florian Verts and they've spent such an enormous amount of money on him that it kind of has to work and the stars align as well because he's not going to get the Bayern job because companies smashing it and that would be the other landing spot for him Slott is stuttering a bit and so and Liverpool definitely have been have had Alonso in mind I think it was probably timing as to why he didn't get him the last one I mean the unthinkable thing would be the Man City job came up in the summer now Enzo Marescu is doing everything he can to put himself is the number one candidate for that.

16:21He's just going there. He's working on Zoom from City. Taking training from City. And people say, I can't see Charlie Alonso at Man City. Well, money and the size of football, it all talks. I just wanted to point out just before we move on from this entirely, your style of football thing is really important because Klopp had such a strong identity and they played such exciting football that it's quite interesting to consider that like two seasons ago, two and a half seasons ago, Liverpool finished fifth and the season after that they finished third and got knocked out of the quarterfinal of the Europa League this is not like a team that's consistently getting to Champions League finals but it was clearly a rebuild and they did win the league over and over and over again of course they did but I get what you're saying what I'm saying is it's not been relentless top of the league winning trophies all the time it's not like Slott would have been sacked if he hadn't won the league in his first season I think that was obviously a very very welcome surprise for most people wasn't it 100 % 100 % absolutely right so I think he should be worried I think Alonso is a lovely fit at Liverpool.

17:20He looks great. He's played for them. They love him there. They've wanted him. And he's, you know, the Real Madrid thing, I do think there's a handful of top clubs where you just don't take any notice of how a manager's done there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. May not have Chelsea, Real Madrid, probably Barcelona. To an extent, Bayern Munich as well, unless it gets really bad. So I think he's not, he's not had his card marked negatively because of his experience at Real Madrid at all. So I think, given what he did at Leverkusen, which was sensational, he has to be in the mix-up. Does knowing the identity of your successor actually make a difference?

17:56I can't imagine Slott's thinking, well, there's no one to replace me, so it doesn't matter how this goes. Yeah, there's literally no managers left. Yeah, so that's fine. Well, he could do a politics thing. He knows he's a political rival, so give him the Chancellor of the Exchequer job. Give him the assistant's job. So you can be my assistant for a few years. Absolutely right. Fend it off a bit longer. Yeah, but they have incidentally blocked Andy Burnham going for the Liverpool manager's job this season. Yeah, rightly so. Coming up after this, we've had Vibesman players. Now it's time for Vibesman managers.

18:38Hello and welcome back. This is from the delightfully named Ewan on Blue Sky. One of my best friends growing up was called Ewan, Scottish lad, Ewan Murdoch. Shout out to you, Ewan, if you're listening. he actually didn't like football so he probably isn't listening oh I'm yours Ewan unless he got into it more recently lovely ginger Scottish chap I've also got a friend called Ewan Ewan Hartley hello Ewan Ewan Murdoch had a dog called Angus great and his dad used to be get in your basket Angus get in your basket Angus that's one of the things I remember from my childhood is it because I've got gammon in it oh it's alright if you just spelt tail bacon have you got any Ewans yeah I had left them behind did you left them north of the border yeah in his wake moved on and Ewan's on blue skies Actually, one of them came to see us at a Newcastle Ramble live show.

19:20Ewan, then. Ewan? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So many Ewans in our lives. I know. Incredible. Yeah. Anyway, how was the Ewan spelt? Was it E? Because this is E-U-A-N. Yeah, E-U-A-N. Yeah, same. Brexit means Brexit, Luke. Carry on. He said, Ewan actually has taken to Blue Sky and said, you've recently discussed vibes players of the Premier League. And we did, didn't we? We had Harry Wilson in there. We had, who else did we have in there? We missed Antoine Semenyo. Yeah, he should have been there. Dan Ballard was in there. I was definitely in there, yeah. Alexander Ezek wasn't in there. No, he wasn't. I forget who.

19:52We did a top five. It was great stuff. Go back and watch it. S. Dave, I was going to be in there soon. But Ewan would now like to know who are the vibes managers. Now, he doesn't specify good vibes. No, he doesn't. He just says vibes. That's fair. So you can go either way. You can choose darkness here if you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not choosing darkness. Because I'm going Thomas Frank, bad vibes. He's such a knob. there's a disappointing lack of vibes because I think there's not the Premier League is so self-important it doesn't tend to attract the vibes and also it has now kind of the profile of a manager has narrowed into this very sort of data-driven obsessive slightly eccentric but eccentric on rails kind of character Stephen Bartlett type yeah exactly very very much that which is why I wonder can we count Jason Tindall can we I mean vibes manager sounds like his job title not this season not this season well you didn't the vibes have been off this season.

20:44Yeah, indeed. He's not been involved, has he? Liam Rossini is trying to manufacture the vibes. Liam Rossini thinks vibes is like go-karting. Yeah. You can't just will the vibes into existence. Unai Emery. Nah, I don't agree. Good vibes. No. He's on the verge of winning the title for crying out loud. I think just saying good vibes isn't enough of an argument. Oh yeah, I've done what Liam Rossini... No, I think... No, chucking the jacket down in celebration. Pushing Yuri Telemans. All that. pushing him around. Saying Marco Bizot over and over again. That was good. I think Unai Emery's got the bit between his teeth and I'm enjoying it.

21:20I was tempted to say Keith Andrews just because he's kind of shut a lot of people up. I don't mind that. Why don't I just list them all in order? Terrible vibes around Oliver Glasner. Why don't I list them all in order and you guys instinctively just say yes or no for good vibes. Or good or bad. Yeah, good or bad. Do yes or no. Do yes or no, right? Okay. Well, we've got to have average in there as well. You've got to have three options. Okay, yes, no, or average vibes. I don't know okay right ready there's an order alphabetical order of club go on then Mikel Arteta no no certainly not at the moment I said one word Aston Villa yes don't know just because you're jealous they've got him now and Andoni Iriola I think good I think yes Keith Andrews yeah Fabian Herzler no average in middle Scott Parker it's not vibes is it in the middle in the middle That's why you have to have that third category.

22:12No, I think they're under too much pressure. Liam Rosinia. Not proven. Oliver Glasner. Bad vibes. Terrible vibes. Great though. But started off with unbelievably good vibes. Yeah, he did. The vibes have turned very sour. Moyes. Yeah, I think so. Silver. I think Latter-day Moyes. Silver. Nah. Silver personally, no, but the club, yes. Farker. Come on. He's turned it around. Brilliant vibes with Farker. Slot, no. No. Guardiola. Absolutely not. It was shown a bit of promise, but no. I think a legacy award for outstanding contribution to the vibes. Yeah, but that's fine. But the vibes are no longer there.

22:47But the standard that you personally need to be of to enjoy vibes under Guardiola is something I can't even comprehend. Very high frequency, yeah. The next one has got sensational vibes. Guardiola is like when those aliens come in that film Arrival and they're speaking a language no one can understand. Oh, yeah, it's a bit weird, isn't it? Carrick. Magnificent vibes. Yes vibes, yes. Eddie Howe. No. Although Tindall brings up the average there, I think. Deich. he's trying to get the vibes too hard trying too hard yeah Lebris yes oh yeah yeah yeah Frank bad vibes terrible vibes Nuno well improving but still no sinister vibes yeah and finally for now I think possibly the number one guy because he's got nothing else he's just coming completely naked armed only with vibes under his arm right Rob Edwards yeah I mean what else have you got but vibes yeah that's all they've got to use the earth has been scorched indeed I think the best vibes right now I think it's probably Carrick Yeah.

23:40Yeah. At time of recording, I'd agree. I think I'm going to give him another mention. I think Colne manager Lucas Krasniok, given that he wears the club's shirt while managing them, simply has to be a vibesman. Yeah. Historical shouts for Claudio Ranieri and Sven? Yeah. Obviously. Yeah. They're the two. They're the Statler and Waldorf vibes. There we go. Right. Excellent stuff. Now, we've got a question here from Shagasaurus Rex on Discord. Always great to hear from him. I assume it's a him. Yeah. there's a very low chance that that's a lady very very low because they are better they are better than us if you look at the Latin of Soros and Rex Soros means lizard and Rex means king so basically he's saying he's the king shagging lizard right could be he's not going to put his real name we're not going to have from Jason Tindall on Discord are we no because his real name is actually David Shagasaurus Rex is that right yeah and old Shagasaurus Rex or Shag Rex T-Rex if you could shorten it.

24:39Shaggy T. Who is the most aesthetically appealing player to watch that isn't or wasn't actually that good? Not referring to overrated or underrated but just purely based on watching them play. For me, Tom Huddleston springs to mind who was a Rolls-Royce of a centre midfielder spraying passes and pinging half volleys off crossbars but actually he was bang average. A touch harsh on Huddleston but I get the point. He's played for England so you're not allowed to say that with him. Well, okay. I'm just saying. Right, you've got to have an identity, haven't you? And you've got to defend it. Reasonably and democratically.

25:14Now, Moon has responded to this chat and said, Joshua Jerksy is definitely one of those. I did it a bit Sean Connery there. It invites that, though, doesn't it? I think so, I think so. Johnny Eggs said, James Ward-Prowse, yes, he was excellent on set pieces, but kind of meh during gameplay, even though he could pass and glide around the pitch. So what's hard is to satisfy the entirety of the brief from Shagasaurus Rex. because I can think of lots of technically pleasing to watch players who were also really good. Like, for some reason, like Mesut Ozil springs to mind. He was technically very good.

25:49He glided around, didn't he? But Huddleston's a really good one. I think Huddleston might be one of the best ones I can think of. David Bentley. Bentley's another good one. Huddleston, I think it's bad form to say he was bang average. I think he was a good player. Well, that's what I mean, yeah. I think he had obvious shortcomings to his games. His mobility, his speed wasn't great. And he clearly wasn't the very top level. But technically, Huddleston, it's not an exaggeration to say, technically was one of the best players England produced of that era. Yeah, you're looking for a little bit of flair, but somebody who you know they've got it, they just don't produce it that often.

26:25It's impossible to overstate how difficult it would be to stand out in the modern Premier League at striking the ball as well as Tom Huddleston did. if you think basically everyone at that level can strike the ball well Hutterston looked like a fucking roller doing it all the time and he could really spray passes it's like he was wearing slippers it's almost like the reverse Declan Rice in that Declan Rice because of his industry and all his hard work and all the rest of it you forget how good he is at set pieces and striking the ball doesn't score too many goals but he's chipping in there and you're always sort of thinking what's the kind of almost reverse of that someone who doesn't maybe put a shift in or the game passes them by a little bit but suddenly there's a flicker or there's something and again, aesthetically pleasing is the thing.

27:08Because I think David Bentley is one. And I would say, this might be a touch harsh, but you know, I'm a fan of the man. John Joe Shelby would be another. Again, that technical ability. If you're really looking for it. Do you know, I'm going to throw you one. Name you haven't heard here for a while. And it leapt to mind for some reason. I really liked the former Pompey man. Do you remember the Algerian fullback? Yeah. Nadir Belhage. Yeah. He, for me, I thought he was brilliant. And I used to sing his praises a while ago. because he would get the ball and he had a bit of pace, he had a good touch.

27:40From memory, he was really good against Milan and the Europa League. Sometimes it's just a game that does it whatever, but he, that was the only time he played in England. I mean, really, he went to a few different clubs, not a particularly outstanding career. I mean, 55 caps for his country, so not too shabby, but for me, when he got the ball, I was always like, oh, what's he going to do? Because there was a body language, there was something, it was like, give me the ball. And inevitably, he didn't really do much with it, but for me, one of those players, aesthetically very pleasing. Can I give you what I think is probably the highest end, most Fortnum and Mason version of this player?

28:12Where I think of people who go, oh, he's achieved too much to really fit into this category. But for me, Xiao Felix is an example of this. Well, I think that's fair, Jim, because of the way his career's gone. Yeah, but when you look at him on the ball, it's so silky. He has the aesthetic of a really, really top level player. But possibly it's because the moves he's chosen haven't quite been the right ones, or there's been circumstances. because of injuries or whatever that have meant he's not quite hit the heights it appeared would be quite easy for him to hit. But there's a sense of a player who should really have achieved more with the talent he has.

28:45And it's been across a lot of clubs by this point. Yeah, well, I mean, if you look at the clubs he's been to, Benfica wins the league there, goes to Atletico Madrid, odd move. I mean, did Simeone just, I don't know what happened there. They spent a lot of money on him as well. He did win the league there, but clearly it wasn't a happy home for him because he goes on loan to Chelsea, goes on loan to Barcelona, and then goes to Chelsea on a permanent. And I'm thinking, oh right is this where he's finally found a home you know a side where he can maybe express himself and again against Fulham when Fulham finally beat Chelsea for the first time in a while he was I thought the best player on the pitch and gets sent off and you saw him and then he goes to Milan on loan and now he's in Saudi Arabia and he's 26 he never really felt like a good Premier League fit no he didn't but the one that sprung to mind for me but great shout Jim I find it it was a really good suggestion I find it really hard to satisfy the but not really achieved a massive amount or not brilliant or whatever in reality.

29:35The one I had in mind was Adal Turat. Well, I thought someone might mention Turat. Because technically, he was class. Yeah, he was. So, so classy. Yeah, I thought about Turat as well, but he did have, he did score bangers here and there and that end product was there enough for me to wonder if he fits into this category, you know? I think he does. I think he won two league titles in Portugal. He won the championship with QPR and he won the League Cup with Spurs and that's it. For his level of ability and his technical brilliance, I think that's, I think he makes him a worthy candidate person. Yeah, I mean, he did look like a player who should have been at the very, very top.

30:07I remember Harry Redknapp said he was the best player at the club when he was at Spurs and I suppose he didn't hit those heights. I think another one is maybe Ricciardo Charesma. Ah, Charesma. Yeah, I think Rafa's the favorite player. I mean, you're tempted to start thinking of like, well, those who may be underachieved. You know, you might even want to put, say, Mario Balotelli there. This is slightly different from that though, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It is slightly different, yeah. I was trying to focus on the technical quality. I think Gio Felix is a good idea. I think Huddleston's probably Mshagasaurus God bless him yeah his Huddleston suggestion is one of the best suggestions I think another player who I remember seeing him early in his career at Liverpool thinking wow this guy's brilliant and it's a slightly different type of kind of technical aesthetic excellence that I think we're talking about remember Mohamed Sissoko yeah who I thought looked so so tidy at times and was like a really really canny operator and he just seemed to sort of drift a little bit do you know who I loved at that that kind of around that time of Liverpool players I was convinced would be brilliant David Thompson and never really did much was Alberto Aquilani yeah injuries though yeah but he had one season I think well no he said I think ended up in three seasons at Liverpool but I think two of those were on loan back in Italy but when they signed him I was really excited about it and his career just didn't really go anywhere after that a lot of parallels for me with again because the injuries it's like I see the name Alberto Aquilani I'm on board straight away and similarly the league Ruben de la Red yeah Ruben de la Red yeah I felt the same with Ivan de la Peña back in the day as well the name alone makes him a good player yeah a little bit there's a touch with this question I would say at times Brian Ruiz when he went to Fulham yeah he could just anyway we just yeah I think there's enough for everybody to go on there alright coming up after this oh could Harry Wilson leave Fulham

31:54Paul has been in touch on the filth factory known as X. Paul. Paul. Could you see Harry Wilson moving to a big club or is it too late in his career? What a dig. Sadly, I have to be honest here, I could see him moving to a bigger club. I don't think that Arsenal or Manchester City or even Liverpool would be interested in Harry Wilson because I think they're quite stacked in those areas. Well, Liverpool have already had an interest in Harry Wilson. Could he go back there? Yes, absolutely. Turn that interest into disinterest. Yes. Wilson is having a wonderful season. His contract is up in the summer.

32:37He nearly left last summer to Leeds United, stuck around. And at the start of the season, he wasn't a starter for Fulham. He would start a little bit here and there, but not like he has been. And, you know, Marcus Silva may or may not move on from Fulham and Silva has been one of the best managers. I mean, you'd say probably in Fulham's history, really, certainly in modern times. So Wilson will be weighing this up and thinking, you know what, if I stay here, depending on what Silva does, I know that I'm one of the best players at the club. He would get an improved deal. There's no two ways about that.

33:11But on the other hand, he's 28. And will a bigger club come in for him? Would say an Aston Villa be interested in Harry Wilson? I mean, again, the thing that goes in Fulham's favour in terms of keeping him is you look around the Premier League and you think, well, again, look at those teams in the top half of the table. As I say, Arsenal, Man City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool are not really going to be interested in, let's be honest. Brentford currently in the top half of the table. Fulham, you know, respect to Brentford or disrespect to Brentford, Fulham are being a club. Newcastle United, perhaps.

33:49more competition but it's a Newcastle it's an Aston Villa could you play European football these are the things he won't cost a penny he's obviously a very very good player the time for him to move is really now you say so he either stays at Fulham and thinks right do you know what I'm going to cement my legendary status among the Fulham fans and get to a place where they're thinking of me on similar regard although I don't think he'll get to Tom Kearney's kind of level Kearney where they're much longer and so on and so forth and who knows maybe there's a slight chance that you might do something in one of the domestic cups.

34:21May never play European football, though, if he's playing at Fulham. I'd say it would have to be, for me, a bigger club who are more likely to do it, say, Villa or Newcastle, for sure. I think he's got it perfect where he is. Right. Because he's not going to go to a big club, as you've already said, a big old club. Every other move, with the exception of possibly, just going on the teams you've mentioned there, every other move, with the exception of Newcastle and Villa, is a sideways move at best. And the Newcastle and Villa issue will be that because they're competing on various different fronts, it's all a bit stop-start, it's all a bit squads are bigger, you're in and out of teams.

35:02And I just don't think that suits him. I think what suits him is playing really consistently. As you say, he's had to force his way into the team as being one of the first names on the team sheet now. He's not been out of Fulham for a couple of years. He's played probably half, he started half the games, maybe come off the bench in the other half and that's kind of been his story. His numbers are already better than they've been in the Premier League for Fulham. He had a better goal-scoring record in the Championship, but that's about it. And to me, his best position clearly is off the right of a three.

35:32And you're in cloud cuckoo land if you think he's starting consistently for massive clubs with respect to him. No, no, I understand. And I think it would be a shame. I think there's nothing wrong with playing in the Premier League, top half of the Premier League, playing every week scoring goals doing well and the fans loving you that's his level his level is his level in my view it will be a disaster for him to leave Fulham I think he should definitely sign a new contract wherever he goes it's really really hard to make an argument that he'd be better off and that to me is the answer well I think yeah the money may talk in the contract I mean say like I don't know Everton came in and said you know what we'll give you 20 grand a week more than say Fulham were offering money may talk and where he would want to live perhaps, would talk about as personal things, we can't speculate on that.

36:17But I agree with you, Luke, I think stay at Fulham would obviously be my passionate plea. And as I say, move into that almost like legendary states, if you can continue this going. Everton's an interesting one, Jim, isn't it? Because they do play the same formation as Fulham. They play three behind a one. If he could get a guarantee to be starting, but the problem is they've got other good players. Yeah, absolutely. But I think so he's playing the best football of his career at the moment and I think it's probably because he's been consistently playing and he's trusted so much that you know he's one of the first names on the team sheet but I also think you've got to look at the general ambition that we know footballers to have right especially at 28 it's it's a chance for the last big contract and as you say money might talk and he might go okay well look I've I've leveled up my game this is a challenge for me now to go and show somewhere else I'm good enough to get into the team regularly but I mean some of his displays have been exceptional some of the quality of his finishing and his passing absolutely brilliant so for Leffert.

37:15If he were to back himself I don't think there's any suggestion that that would be delusional. It's what he wants really because as you say if he thinks this club say Villa or Newcastle or wherever a club who has European football next season have come in for me and they're offering me big money do I go there and I think okay I'm going to have to fight for my place again or do I cement what I've got at Fulham and maybe even help Fulham kick on. That is really going to be the choice. It needs to be a club ready to achieve kind of European football at the very least now, doesn't it? Yeah, because I think the idea of him almost going to Leeds last season, I'm a bit like, yeah, I'm sure he's glad he stayed at Fulham.

37:53Yeah, I mean, that would be because Leeds will say, you play every game. Exactly, and he wasn't at Fulham at the time. No matter how good he's been, and he has been one of the best players in the league this season, you have to say that, he does still have, I don't want to turn this into a negative thing about him because it's a positive story anyway, he does have limitations. like if you're talking about playing at the very very top level he's probably not quick enough he's probably not strong enough I don't think he's of that amazing quality to be consistently performing against the best teams every week when there's proper scrutiny on you every single minute like because what happens a lot with players playing for say a Fulham is you know with I mean this with love and respect because I like Fulham and I like going to watch him especially with me particularly with you Mark it's always a lovely time It was nice to have a Marcus in there.

38:42Absolutely. If he goes three games, two home games and an away game at Fulham and doesn't play that well, no one fucking cares. No one, I mean, the fans care. What's happening? But it's not a story. If he goes to Chelsea or even Newcastle for big money. Well, you're just not in the team, aren't you? Exactly. So he's perfect where he is. It's fine to be like that. I'm not begrudging the guy going to get his bag if he wants to go and get his bag. Yeah. But where he is at the moment is perfect. Which is why I'm surprised Fulham were in for Oscar Bob. yeah that would just be competition for places and that would be but wasn't that because they were going to lose a wide forward well Samuel Chukwase is on loan from Malone and just doesn't didn't West Ham want Iwobi not Iwobi Traore Traore and Bob's pretty versatile as well he is so is Wilson to be fair I mean he's found a berth on the right side but he can play across the I mean it's a side point we've got one more question to answer but I would if I was full of I would be keeping Samuel Chukwase he's been brilliant scored again on the weekend scored on the weekend yeah Luke you've got the last question I have got the finally for now.

39:39So finally for now from Jordan on Insta, a beautiful, honest social media platform we can all get behind. Absolutely. Not like the AI-generated revenge porn app X or the lily-livered wet blanket liberal blue sky or the Chinese spying mechanism TikTok. Oh, is it? Insta is Mark Zuckerberg, solid type. Very supportive of that. So well done to you, Jordan, for choosing the correct social media platform. That's a joke. by the way. Which other club could have a crown-like drama made about them and is it Leicester City? Yeah, I think Leicester City's season... Well, one season would be particularly interesting.

40:16It's not Leicester because it has to go on through the generations. Well, I'm... So, Real Madrid already have their own TV channel, right? Yeah. I think they should have like a five nights a week telenovela. Yeah, yeah, nice. Like a dramatised version of the things that are actually going on at the club at the time with actors playing the players and the executives and stuff like that and that that should just be part of playing Real Madrid. If you don't like it and you can't handle that, don't come to the club. This is what it's about. Lean into it, Madrid. So a dramatisation of what's actually happening at the same time for people who want a bit more of it acted presumably quite badly.

40:51But were really over the top, really melodramatically. Yeah. I think probably you need a club that's had an identity for an extended period of time. So Real Madrid is... The thing with Real Madrid... It's a good one. I'd love to see how they tackled the early... the fascist years. But that would genuinely make it a very interesting watch, right? Yeah, I think so, yeah. I mean that seriously. I mean, there's a lot of deeply problematic stuff. Yeah, I mean, if this works for Manchester United, you imagine Barcelona will be yanking that lever off straight away. Yeah, paying 10 times amount by pulling an economic lever.

41:29I think what would be interesting was to think about it slightly differently and do it, but do it about, say, the FA Cup. so you pick out sort of five or six really seismic seasons and tell the story about the FA Cup in that way because you get a lot of different variation but the problem is with dramatizations of anything to do with football you can't show the football because it's impossible to replicate it or act it it has to just use real footage otherwise it looks shit I mean the amount of things trying to film football matches with actors it just never works what about Mike Ashley's Newcastle United well actually Newcastle would be interesting but you could also do the entertainers years right so Newcastle do have some interesting points in their history that would make this a good watch I mean maybe I was too quick to dismiss Leicester City but I it's just one season though isn't it well you've got the FA Cup in there as well you'll really fucking tune into eight episodes of Leicester when they won the FA Cup on the Brendan Rodgers I just feel that yeah I think you'd need something that would stretch you more well there was the great escape the season before it as well there'd be some fertile ground I think that you'd want something to stretch you a little bit more creatively.

42:36You think of the Damned United. Sometimes you want a film or you want something that gets in behind the scenes where it is a bit shit. Well Spurs then. Well Spurs could be. There's that guy on Twitter who's done 120 ridiculous examples of Spurs being a banter club. Just use all those as plot points. Ange's Spurs. There we go. Who would play Ange? There we go. Russell Crowe. That would be great. That would be great. That would be really good. there we go there we are I think that's answered your question Jordan and if it hasn't then up yours up yours quite frankly get off Insta and get on Patreon thanks for listening to the Football Ramble part of the ACAST Created Network please do send us your responses opinions and questions for next week's mailbag and become a friend of the Ramble to join the conversation on our Discord we'll see you tomorrow for more Ramblings

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