Mailbag: Should Arsenal be looking for Mikel Arteta’s replacement?

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4:25Luke Moore: Welcome one and all to the Mailbag. That's right. Oh, we're going to answer some of your questions. Well, we're going to answer all of your questions that are on the show. But if you want to get some questions in to us for next week's show, then do message us on xbluesky or Instagram at footballramble. Comment on YouTube or email us at footballramble.com. And of course, Friends of the Ramble, you guys get priority. patreon.com forward slash football ramble or sign up on YouTube now. Plenty of avenues for you to ask us questions, to follow up on things that we've talked about or just simply slag us off.

4:59Luke Moore: It's all there for you. Well, don't actually actively invite people to do that. We get enough of that as it is. Yeah, I think though that most people who listen to the show are good people. So they'll start by slagging us off and they go, do you know what? That's a bit harsh. I will actually respond or ask them a question. That simply cannot be an experience-based opinion. We have to play on the edge, Luke Moore. It's true. You lose that, you lose something in our game. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. Exactly. Let's start with Ben on Instagram who asks this. If somehow Arsenal win nothing this season, is Mikel Arteta still manager next season?

5:31Luke Moore: At Arsenal, David. Straight in there from Ben. Yeah. Is he for the chop if they lose the league and the Champions League? Will he or won't he? Well, you said chop there. That's not the only way he could no longer be the manager, is it? All right, he walks off. Okay. Walk or chop? Or stay? No, just one word answer. We'll move on. We'll go to the next one. It's our version of Kiss, Marry, Kill. I think if he wins absolutely nothing this year, then he should definitely be questioned and the board should look at other options to see if there is something better out there. Absolutely. They've spent a lot of money.

6:07No, that's fine. They've spent a lot of money. They've not won much.

6:09Luke Moore: You have to look at it from that point of view. I feel that you do have one cheek still sitting on the fence, though, with that answer, David, if I may. All right, okay. So what would make me move the other cheek? Take part of the cheek off the fence. The question is, will he be Arsenal manager next season? Oh, right. Yes, he will. Okay. So if they lose, yeah. Yeah, I think he'll still... I don't think the board have got the balls to move him on. Right, okay. Okay. Luke? Well, I think David was going to answer the question in a lot more detail, but you stopped him. Well, I mean, you can come back on that.

6:41Luke Moore: Okay, so let's have the... Oh, you want to go around the table first with a little pricey and then we're going into a bit more depth? Why not? Okay, fine.

6:51So, I think I broadly agree with David, although I think I'd probably be less harsh. I think the summary of my thoughts would be that I think he will still be the manager next season, whatever happens, unless he has a... I don't know him, obviously. So I agree with you. So if he decides that actually, do you know what, I'm hitting up against the ceiling here, I need to refresh or I need to go and take a sabbatical, a lot of top managers do that now or I need to go somewhere else. I don't know about any of that. But in terms of Willett, I think it's almost unthinkable that he won't be the manager in the first game of the new season.

7:22Luke Moore: Agreed. Do I think that, so I guess that kind of answers Ben's question in one way. Do I think that he should be? I think David is pretty much on the money. I think you have to view it in the round. You have to give him a huge amount of credit for him restoring Arsenal to where they are. I think, you know, the latter years of the Wenger era, they were a laughingstock. You know, again, that doesn't kind of undercut what Wenger achieved. Then Emery obviously turned out not to be the right fit, even though I think he's a great manager and I think it was an impossible job. It was a poison chalice and all the rest of it.

7:54And then we kind of filter out all that stuff. And then Arteta comes in with a gigantic job on his hands because Arsenal were a massive, massive club. You can only really argue that Man Utd and Liverpool were bigger clubs than them. And some people may not even agree with that. Wins them the FA Cup. wins a trophy early on which you know is probably fig leafing quite a lot of stuff at the moment for him but if they come out of this and the position they've been in with nothing I think it's fair enough to ask the question about whether he's the right guy that's all I'm saying I think the question has to be paused and I don't think I don't think I don't think it needs to be a kind of totally reactive all or nothing he's brilliant or he's shit like we see in so much modern you know discussion these days around football but I do think you start to have the conversations where you concentrate on this stuff so so i agree with david as well that i don't think he'll be moved on i don't think they do that he's got a contract till 2027 it seems to me that the very least he'll um he'll see that out even if he doesn't um renew i know there's conversations about him renewing at the moment anyway um so look in summary you know it's getting to the point now where are you the nearly man are you someone who can actually get it done?

9:04Can you get it over the line? I mean, it's not enough for a team like Arsenal to not win anything at all repeatedly. I do think you have to take into account the idea that they're basically up against, you know, a petro state who might well be doing things they shouldn't be doing in terms of the team that have pipped them to the post. I think Liverpool's slightly different, but Manchester City more often than not. So you've got to view it in the round, of course, but I think if I'm an Arsenal fan, I'll try and empathise with the different fan bases when we talk about different teams. And I've been to Arsenal quite a few times this season.

9:37If I'm an Arsenal fan, I am frustrated beyond belief if we come out of this and the situation we've been in, having what we've seen in seasons gone past with nothing. No one's saying they will come away with nothing at this point that we don't know. It could win two massive trophies. But that's the broad summary of where I'm at anyway. It's always the case as well. If you are going to move somebody on, then what is out there? so looking from Arsenal's point of view why would they move Arteta on because they're not winning a trophy right so then you go if we're moving Arteta on we need somebody who's a guaranteed winner who's been there and done it before which is no such thing is there really exactly a lot of people when they have this debate they go to somebody like Ancelotti yeah he's obviously not going to go he's very very happy and he wanted that Brazil show yeah we saw him at the colourful you know exactly you can probably see him from here

10:34there's a big tent everyone's invited there's not many Ancelotti's out there there might not be another Ancelotti out there other than the man himself so then he was more of a

10:45Luke Moore: Champions League sort of manager even Ancelotti wouldn't be Arsenal fans just want a bloody trophy and they've spent and Luke's saying rightly so about City and being the Petro state and what have you but Arsenal spent a hell of a lot of money as well they spent a lot of money last summer and the money that they've spent how much has it taken them forward what are they doing are they waiting for Pep to go is that Arteta's moment to strike are they just going to keep renewing them do what the football rambles don't just outlast every other show exactly are they just going to be renewing Arteta in tandem with like what City do with Pep what are you waiting for if he's that good of a manager he needs to topple Pep he needs to topple City that's where I'm saying that's the assignment that's the assignment in front of him he has to do that we're all agreed that he's going to be there next season he may not have to topple Pep because surely Pep will leave in the summer because you would think they would win at least one more trophy but that makes it that makes it worse but there's going to be so say Pep does step away right so Pep steps away this summer Arteta stays and then Arsenal win the league everybody's going to go oh you can only win it when Pep's not here so you can already see the narrative around it then I'm not sure Would you care about that if you're an Arsenal fan?

11:56No, I don't think you would. You absolutely wouldn't. But looking at the here and now... But it's the asterisks that people are going to put next to them. People love an asterisk. But there's asterisks everywhere these days. I'm not sure.

12:04Luke Moore: I'm not sure. But look, the here and now is if Arsenal win nothing this season, it will be a monumental disappointment. Completely agree. Absolutely. And a lot of the chat, you know, Jim, our resident Arsenal fan, said the other week, whenever it was, that this is on our tether. The mentality, the poor time in April. Again, I agree. And all that kind of stuff. I thought last season that if Arteta didn't win this something this season they still can then he might not be there the following season if you see what I mean and I suppose what I'm doing is I'm shifting that along another season now you're carrying the can I was going to say but David what do you do after monumental disappointments though you directly approach that and say how do you change this and they did last summer by spending a lot more money and it still hasn't he's lighting fires mate he's lighting fires so yeah Yeah, so we're still in this sort of haze, if you like, of it.

12:57Luke Moore: Like I say, I thought this would be his last season. They still might. So there's your asterisk at the moment. And I'm willing to shift that down one more season. But the thing is, though, that what comes after that, careful what you wish for, et cetera, et cetera. Quite clearly, if Arteta, I think at the end of next season, he again hasn't got Arsenal over the line, when there's a time when... we thought last season was their opportunity. Well, then Liverpool have that season and Mo Salah was superb. And you kind of go, well, okay. They were poor. Fine. They didn't do it. If not this season, when?

13:32Luke Moore: The only thing I would say about Arsenal Arteta is you could make an argument that they will be a better side next season. How much better? I don't know. Could you make that argument for Liverpool? Not sure. Maybe. No. Could you make that argument for Manchester City? I'm sorry. For Liverpool, yeah, you can probably. Man City depends but I think you're right to point out that if City win the league then Pep probably goes so there's a consistency at Arsenal people go the second place consistency the jury's out Chelsea the jury's out right enough Villa haven't got the pedigree of that but what about this season none of those clubs that you've named are better than they were last season I know I know David and so this is why I again from what I said before I'm then delaying it one more season because if we get to the end of next season and Arsenal are still in the same place, then the questions will be asked.

14:25Luke Moore: And if you have a manager who's pulling up trees or, I don't know, someone like Iriola goes in his next job, say if he does go to Athletic Bilbao, for example, or Club Athletic, should I say, and they have a phenomenal season, you know, will Arsenal go, do you know what? Right, let's get him in. I don't know. That's just one name. Maybe that's not the right name. I was going to say a slash Fabregas. Well, possibly. But I think where Arsenal are right now, semi-final, currently at the time, we're recording top of the Premier League. I think that's why my powder's dry on that. But I think you also want to factor in the idea...

15:02It's just that nearly-ness about it. But Arteta totally owns it as well. So Arteta isn't, you know, obviously, weirdly for a Spaniard, I guess he's done a lot of football education in England, but he's not the type of coach that you guys have touched on. He's not a kind of, I'll just coach the players, I'll whisper to the players. He's almost like, he wants to be like a Guardiola. He wants to own the whole thing. And that is obviously amazing on one level because you get the control and you get brought into and you get the support you need and it's all on you. But obviously, at the same time, it's all on you.

15:38So it's not really anywhere for him to hide. And what it comes down to is how much patience, various different stakeholders, whether they be fans or the media or the owners or the colleagues or his players have for this, have for this kind of, I know he gets a lot of stick for this kind of Stephen Bartlett, Jake Humphrey kind of, you know, world-class basics, you know, LinkedIn.

16:00Luke Moore: You can just call it wank. Yeah, wank. Yeah. He, you know, if it gets results, it's kind of, people don't really care. People don't really give a shit. Oh, he's a bit kind of TED talk, you know, fine. He likes a Bluetooth speaker. Well, Guardiola's a bit odd with some of his comments, right? But it doesn't matter because people just see Guardiola as a wacky genius. Yes. But some people might just see Arteta as just a bit wacky. Yeah, Guardiola wins things. Exactly. So he can say this shit and he's got a bit of allowance. Yeah, exactly. Arteta's not winning anything yet until he's winning consistently.

16:29So, I mean, if he wants to be Pep and everything he does is mimicked on what Pep is and what Pep does, then that's great. There's still one thing you need to do and that's win.

16:38Luke Moore: Yeah, I've said it before and I'll say it again because I feel it is relevant. I think that he is in, he's very much, you know, end of England, Gareth Southgate territory here. Right. In that, you know, I know you're not a fan of Southgate, David, but if I may, you know, when he came along to, when Arteta went to Arsenal and Southgate got given the England job, it was kind of like, yeah, we'll give him a go because it's so poor at the moment and we're down on our luck. Comes in, changes the culture at the club. Southgate changes the culture at England. England and Arsenal. It's a blueprint. Totally ready to win trophies.

17:14Luke Moore: Southgate didn't get England over the line he was mightily close and then Southgate eventually he was like look my time here is done Tuchel brings the glory is that what you're saying? Well For Arsenal Well he might do maybe he's the man if he can win it for England maybe Arsenal It's a good comparison but I think it's there It's a good comparison yeah they've changed cultures and what have you but they've won nothing so there you go Yeah indeed First one through the door gets a bloody nose That's what they say Alright next up is Dave whose email show at footballramble.com old school comms we respect it means Dave Dave, you are almost certainly over the age of 35-ish.

17:48Congratulations to you. On Tuesday's mailbag, last week, Marcus mentioned a fairly uncontroversial point that the Championship Playoff final is the worst game to lose and the best game to win. It put in my mind how supporters of my own club would, with hindsight, point to Aston Villa's playoff final defeat to Fulham in 2018 as one of the most important results in our recent history. Agree. Had we fluked an undeserved win that day, we'd have found ourselves in the Premier League with a fairly poor manager, bracket Steve Bruce, always getting pelters on this show Paul Brucie a flaky owner in Tony Chia and who knows what else but Tom Kearney's winner thank you and another year in the championship was the catalyst for A.

18:22the seller of the club to the current owners B. Dean Smith C. Jack Greenish becoming a£100 million player D. Una Emery and E. Champions League football are there any other matches that the panel would point to where defeat actually turned out to be the better result for the losing side now there are loads of sliding doors moments in these in this sport and we are tempted over and over again to backfield the narrative, right? So you've got to be a bit careful on that front.

18:46Luke Moore: You do. But I think it's a really interesting question. I've got an answer for it, but I'll hand it over to you guys first. Might we say in future Arsenal's lost to Man City? Wow, maybe. They go on and win the league. If they go on and win the league and go, right, we've just got to go out and try and blast teams. It'll be because of that. Yeah. But anyway, that's... I mean, in the grand scheme of things, that wouldn't be a massive, massive answer though, would it? I mean, it's a... I think you could say because if they'd have won the game or they'd have got a point, they could go, right, let's just consolidate what we've got.

19:16Luke Moore: But anyway, that hasn't happened where it has happened. Yeah, I was really thinking about this. I've got a really easy answer, I think. You go on. Well, I was really thinking about this because, again, as you say, you kind of backfill the narrative and so on and so forth. But one result did spring to mind. I turn my attention to international football, of course. And I think of Germany when they were beaten 5-1 by England. yep 2001 because they were sort of drifting a bit in the 1994 World Cup they were saying oh is this you know do we need a sort of some fresher players they obviously go out to Bulgaria you know which was a bit of an embarrassing one even though it was a great Bulgarian side Euro 96 they bloody win the tournament or but this is the last you know knock-ins of this again a bit of an older side France 98 they go out to Croatia they were down to 10 men but Croatia battered them oh right that side was too old Euro 2000 and again they were not a good tournament much like England went out in the first round and they lost to England as well and I think they'd sort of limped on a bit they'd slightly rested on their laurels from the 1990 win in the World Cup in Italy obviously they won the Euros in 96 and we're talking about one of the most successful international sides you know like just trophy laden team and always getting to the latter stages of the tournament so going in the first round of the Euros was quite odd they didn't really change that much and England come along and batter them 5-1.

20:38Luke Moore: And it's funny, I read a piece about this, you know, researching this topic, and one reporter, an English reporter, said in the aftermath, blimey, how long will this, you know, how long will this loom over Germany, this result? You know, will this be a real psychologically huge blow for them? Well, they get to the World Cup final the year after with not particularly changes, not huge changes of structure and so on, but the wheels were in motion. Hosting the 2006 World Cup I think was big for them but they started to look a bit more at youth and you remember the was it the 2009 under 21's tournament when Ozil and so and co put England to the sword in the final.

21:20Luke Moore: Joe Hart was in goal for it. Thomas Miller as well. Yeah they beat them 4-0 and that would lay the foundation to 2010 World Cup. They had a pretty good show and got to the semi-final only beaten by a single goal by Spain but everyone was at that tournament weren't they? And then of course Apart from Switzerland. Apart from Switzerland. And we shouldn't forget it. And then in the 2014 World Cup, they win it. And I wonder if they'd have just got through, would they have really tried to kind of look at their international setup and try to do things differently? You ultimately don't know, but I think some people in Germany might say, well, it's a bit fanciful maybe to just pick one result.

21:55Luke Moore: And others might have thought, no, that was the catalyst. A very, very embarrassing home defeat. And a defeat that they've, you know, what, twice maybe in their history? they'd beaten by more than four goal margins, something like that. So that would be one that I would think maybe qualifies as an answer. Well, mine is strangely kind of intersected with that. Right. But I would go England against Germany in 2010. Okay. Now, I know that we dabbled around with other managers after Fabio Capello, obviously went into Roy Hodgson and then very briefly with Sam Allardyce before we eventually got to Southgate.

22:31South gets a lot of credit for doing what he did and what you said earlier, Marcus. But the 2010 one for me looks like they go back and they go, right, enough is enough now. We've got St. George's Park in process. We need to accelerate that, which they did. I know it was proved before 2010, but they really needed to say, look, the problem here is, and I remember the chat around it, Germany embarrassed us and we tried to gloss over, paint over the cracks with the Frank Lampard ghost goal type thing. but ultimately we were so far short of it. The players they had, the way they moved, the way they played, the conversation I remember sort of really kind of started to focus on why are we not producing players?

23:14And so St. George's Park is accelerated and I think you would naturally see maybe a 10, 12, 15 year layoff for these players to start to be produced. Now there's other things in place like the way that the academy system works now, the way Man City have produced players, the way other clubs have produced players. But ultimately, I think it finally forced English football to focus on the production of players. And regardless of what's happened to England, come and just short, who knows what's going to happen this summer, you now can't say that the thing that you always used to be able to say about England was they don't produce a certain type of player.

23:46England produce every different type of player now, partly because of that system. And I think a lot of it comes from that 2010 embarrassment and the way we were beaten. Not just the fact that we were beaten heavily, but the way we were beaten.

23:56Luke Moore: Well, do you know, actually, Iceland in 2016 was nearly going to be my answer for slightly different reasons, but within the same realm, because that was so embarrassing, this idea of getting in. I think the idea of parachuting in a capella or whatnot, appreciate Thomas Tuchel's there now. But I think it made them think, well, who on earth do we go for? And it was by luck rather than judgment when they give the job to Southgate. Whatever one may think about the brand of football and how it sort of ended up, there is no doubt that Southgate was a huge part of the team that improved the feeling around England and playing for England and so on and so forth so Iceland actually was going to be maybe my other one but I've had my answer David surely funnily enough I'm going to go with international football as well so that's strange that we've all gone for that but surely for that all to come full circle England has to win yeah you are right so Germany had their revolution they won yes with their players the one I'm going to I'm going to bring up Spain in a minute.

24:54Okay. They won after their moment.

24:57Luke Moore: Yes. England have yet to have their moment. Indeed. But there's no doubt things have improved. I mean, look at the, who asked the question here was Dave. You know, he's talking about Aston Villa. Aston Villa haven't won anything yet, but he's saying clearly everything's improved a lot though. And so that would be my argument with England, but that was, I was talking about Germany more. But go on, what you were going to say. Yeah. So I was going to go with Spain. Yeah. And a lot of the reasons that you both detailed with England and Germany as well, There was a particular defeat in Euro 2008 qualifying to Northern Ireland.

25:28Yes. 3-2.

25:29Luke Moore: David Healy. Oh, yeah, I remember that. Yeah. And it ushered in, and it was quite controversial at the time. Yes. Luis Aragonés, the main headline was dropping Raul. Yes. Very controversial at the time. Poster boy for Spanish football. Yeah. Real Madrid player, of course, at the time. Absolutely untouchable. there was a feeling in the squad that it was too Barcelona Real Madrid orientated there was a lot of cultural factors there as well the Basques the Catalans obviously Madrid boys as well and it was always an issue with Spain and they'd had some great players down the years some absolutely wonderful players Luis Enrique Juan Carlos Valarón you know I can reel them all off but they never won they were always the Neely men they and England them and us were the two great underachievers of international football.

26:19Luke Moore: Fair to say they've put that to bed. And then Luis Aragon has kind of got everybody together. And what he did, he broke that up. But then he brought everybody together. So he got players from Valencia, from Virial, from other teams around. He brought your likes, your Marcos Senna's in, Santi Cazola, David Silva. And then he brought, obviously, still had some Barcelona players, but there was Xavi and Iniesta. It was a different type of player. People forget, before pre-2008, Spain were very much based upon direct physical player and yes you had your Valorant lovely technical players and such but they were very much they were kind of like England as well in many different ways because they're putting your shootouts in England yeah of course and they had that over them and they changed they changed tact and how they did it and obviously there I mean I don't need to elaborate too much more on their youth structure and how it across the generations that they produced after and they and because of that defeat they arguably went on and they're probably one of the greatest national teams of all time in what they won and I think that's easy they're up there with the absolute best of them.

27:17I mean, it's incredible how much it changed. They won, but they also changed the style of football. We gave birth to Tiki Taka in the technical player, the technical level that we see today, even now in the Premier League and Pep Guardiola's influence. So it's quite seismic how that result changed things, I think, in Spain and football from then on.

27:36Luke Moore: Yeah, one can always think that Spain always played like that. In historical terms, it's pretty recent. Yeah, because they had so many nice players. Mendieta, a beautiful player. like I said Valeran's one of my first yeah yeah absolutely stunning and obviously I had big Nadal at the back as well I remember the penalty shoot and yeah it was incredible how much change from that great answer alright coming up after this we praise Leeds and Sunderland plus a listener from Brazil tells us more about Moggy Mirum or Moggy Mirum should I say

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28:48And whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary Football Weekly podcast, The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. If you've got spring fever, Lowe's has the cure. During Spring Fest, make your landscape stand out with three free bags of Miracle-Gro three-quarter cubic foot garden soil when you buy three.

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30:37Luke Moore: At the time of recording, it looks unlikely that Leeds are going to go down as well. So we're going to go with you there, eggs. David, Sunderland fan, come to you first for that one. Yeah, of course. I honestly think there's a bit of both to play here. I remember looking at Sunderland in the championship and then looking at mid to lower Premier League table. And I thought there's a bit of a gap in quality there. They're not that far ahead. Yes, they've got the resources. There's a lot of Premier League money involved. But I was looking at style of play and quality of play that was already there.

31:04And I was thinking we can go toe-to-toe with them. absolutely if they play in the right manner in the right organised manner and such this was it from a Sunderland point of view I think it's different from Leeds but from a Sunderland point of view Regis Lebris brought in a style of play that was more organised, compact it was very dedicated to that system and Sunderland were very very comfortable with that the players were really comfortable with that and we had a brilliant manager in Tony Mobray who I love as well and I loved the football and he arguably played better football I thought it was more attractive to watch but there was a naivety there and there was a lot

31:41Luke Moore: It's a shame for Mowbray because he's a good manager I really I don't have a single bad word to say about Tony Mowbray at all but there needed to be something more a bit of steel and a bit of nous Le Brie brought that in and obviously the calibre of play changed because the recruitment model got a lot better as well at the club so those two things combined I think have helped us stay up Leeds is an interesting one because I thought for a while they were really struggling and then I think Daniel Farker kind of clicked and saw something that a lot of Leeds fans were saying needed to change and they did that he changed the system yeah yeah he did and it kicked on from there and they have got some really good I mean Calvert-Lewin was a good bit of recruitment you have to say I think some clubs were wary of him because he was injured record and such but Leeds had a go and he's obviously been brilliant for them Talismanic and then I think Goodmanson's been brilliant this season Tanaka as well they've got some good little players in there so recruitment helps as well but again it's system as well so I think there's a combination of things there's not just one bit of magic for the clubs coming up Coventry fans I can't just give them one bit of magic you know there's a multitude of things and I think Coventry's in a good place for instance I think they've got a good manager there clearly their recruitment's been quite good for the past few years as well and they'll probably be happy with the style of play that Lampard's offering as well so the things are in place you'd say if you're a Coventry fan coming up Yeah.

33:05Luke? I feel like it was, I was chatting to a Sunderland fan before the season started, and he was talking quite a lot about how they were, Sunderland were trying to kind of ape the Brighton model, trying to kind of do things with data and try and take chances in the transfer market, trying to find players that they could improve. And what I think they've done is they've recruited really well. They've brought players in where most of the time you can understand why they've done that. like Grant Jaco nothing's new to him he's seen it all right there's loads there's loads of other players they've brought in that have done well but chiefly what they've done is they've gambled and it's paid off right because they've all they've brought players to a system they've all brought into the system and they've and they've managed to channel the fact that they are a big club and they've been in the Premier League before Leeds have made themselves really tough to beat I think it's gone a little bit underrated how often they'll dig a draw out and I mean there was one point and it's not the case now but there was one point where they had lost like two games in the Premier League for months.

34:05And that really helps you out when you're in the Premier League, for sure. So I think it's a combination of things, really. I really like what Sunderland have done. I think Sunderland are in a slightly different situation to Leeds. I think Sunderland have been a lot more successful, a lot more holistic with their approach. But Daniel Farker deserves an incredible amount of credit because he had so much negativity going into the season about how, you know, he's not really shown that he can be a top-flug manager. During the season. Yeah, as the season started as well, yeah. So, yeah, in summary, I think it's probably a combination of things.

34:32See, Fark has almost had a personal point to prove And a bit of motivation there By proving that he's a Premier League manager Because there's been a lot of managers over the years Who have kind of been pigeonholed

34:42Luke Moore: And said, oh, he's a really good championship manager But for the Premier League, he hasn't quite got it And like Luke said, I think we're in different And this is no disrespect to Leeds But I think Sunderland's got a bit more of a long-term strategy there That I'm very encouraged about And they're unapologetic about being the next Brighton Or the next Brentford Or the next Bournemouth They're happy to be that If this summer Brobby goes, that's fine. They'll go to the data, they'll go to their scouting and say, right, we can get a replacement for that. And that's how they'll operate. Yeah. I think you've summed that up well, and I was just tagging on the end of it.

35:14Luke Moore: Yeah, Sunderland, longer term, as you say. And you were very confident about Sunderland staying up. He was, to be fair. Which, you know, and I took note of that. And with Leeds, you're right, it was going one way, and it's, they've, you know, a bit of pragmatism, a bit of scrambling around there, but it's clicked. And sometimes you can explain that, and sometimes you just can't. It just clicks and you've got to go with that feeling. And so I think that's probably what it is. I think that leads us neatly onto our next question though, David, which I believe you've got. Indeed. And this is from Nick Gee on the Discord.

35:44Which club would you not want to be picking a new manager for this summer? I mean, I'll jump straight in if you like. Go on. And I will say, for perhaps slightly different reasons than the questioner intended and maybe different reasons or different way that you guys are going to answer it, I would say Chelsea. All right, I was going to say the same. The reason I say Chelsea is because I think it's going to be really hard to get someone. Right. I think everyone sees Chelsea now in the industry as a time bomb.

36:09Luke Moore: So you're putting yourself in the position of a, like a director of a club, and thinking who you are. No, no, well, partly, but I could also say if I was a Chelsea fan, I would start to be worried that the caliber of manager we're going to be able to attract is going to be very, very low because the club is a time bomb. Yeah. Because financially, given the fact that they may, I mean, there's a really good chance they're not going to get into the Champions League, right? So that also exacerbates their financial problems. And I've done some reading and done some listening. There's a really good Business of Sport podcast that came out recently doing a deep dive on Chelsea.

36:48And while I admit that my understanding of financials is pretty rudimentary, it sounded horrific. It is, it's brutal. There's been a lot come out recently. and they said a lot's made out of oh Chelsea make the player sales and they've got these contracts no the money is it's starting to bite isn't it yeah they're also

37:05Luke Moore: gambling on having a new stadium and new revenue which is not going to happen now the entire thing's a gamble the stadium is not going to happen in the time frame that the investors in this club expect to see a return they've not even got planned permission for the stadium so I think Chelsea for me I think they are on they're on a tightrope now and I think Liam Rosina will lose his job we know everything points towards that because A he's not really been good enough B he looks a bit out of his depth and C Chelsea just fire managers anyway who they get next will be really telling as to how catastrophically bad the current Chelsea project is yeah I think that's a good answer because I you're right if you say you're the aforementioned Cesc Fabregas former Chelsea player of course that would be massive if they offered you that job but you're looking at it and going no you're right I don't think he's taken that Yeah, in black and white, it's massive.

37:56Chelsea, Premier League. Okay, great. But if I'm Cesc Fabregas, young, exciting coach. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Everybody's talking about me at Como and what we're doing there. I can do what I want at Como, by the way. Yeah, exactly. And then they go to Chelsea where, and this is the thing. So Chelsea right now have got no identity as a club, in my opinion, beyond being a hedge fund for a couple of guys who are trying to gamble on players and hopefully flip them for a bit of money and what have you. on the field, there's no identity there. Off the field, there's no identity in terms of the type of player that they're identifying outside of just being those gambles.

38:34So for system fits, for instance, that's not there. I'd be immensely worried if I'm a Chelsea fan right now where my club is. I really, really would. I think a lot of them are. Yeah. And rightly so, I mean, the protests, we've seen that there's mass protests there because they don't want to be, they don't want to be this blue core thing. There were Strasburg fans as well. They were feeling it as well. So they understand where it's like to be part of this, I don't know, this satellite sort of group of clubs. And it's sad, I think, for them seeing their club kind of ripped away in that manner.

39:05Luke Moore: Because if you compare them to Manchester United, who, you know... It's a tough one as well. Yeah, it is a tough one. But if you compare them to Manchester United, Michael Carrick's done them a solid, really, because they are going to be in the Champions League next season. The feeling around the club is much better than it was a number of months ago. Yes, it's still run by the same people. I understand all that. But if the football side of things is a bit better, at least you have something to hang your hat on. Compare that, as I say, Manchester United, when they're potentially choosing a new manager in the summer, could be Carrick.

39:36Luke Moore: I think some people would be a fan of that. Other people might say, maybe go and get Irreola or something or whoever. It feels like it would be a more positive appointment. Whereas if Chelsea do decide to part ways with Liam Rossini, which a lot of people think that they will, it feels like a damage limitation appointment. also you could change it around and say Man City if you wanted because I mean the whole club identity is got up in Pep Guardiola who on earth is going to do that and be successful I don't think it's massive I don't think it's a big exaggeration to say that that job is essentially the same in terms of energy and vibe than United was after Ferguson and Arsenal was after Wenger he's totally reignited the club you've already got someone who's very much put himself in the frame and has Premier League experience with Maresca but I don't think it means he'll be good at it I think Maresca would be a good appointment.

40:22Luke Moore: Okay. I said, when Leicester went up... Well, you think he's just waiting, is he? He's just waiting for it to happen? Yeah. Fair enough. When Leicester City went up under Maresca, I remember thinking, this guy, he looks and sounds the part, the way he plays football, he'll go to the top. Now, one might argue Chelsea is the top slash was the top or whatever. I thought it was ridiculous that they sacked him, although he did say certain things which made him perhaps untenable. Yeah, but what, this club's a madhouse. But I mean... Yeah. Words to that effect. I mean, to be fair, To be fair, he wasn't lying, was he?

40:52Luke Moore: But yeah, so that would be my question. Out of interest, can I just throw a club up if we have time? Yeah, we do. We've got time. We've got time for you, David. Why is he asking me and not asking you? Disrespectful to our host. Can I throw Newcastle out there? Yeah. How do you look upon that one? Yeah, I think that's an interesting answer because you've got a situation with Eddie Howe where how far does he take them? Is he the stepping stone? Is he the practice girlfriend before you want to get married? Blah, blah, blah. Practice girlfriend. players are going to be sold as well yeah you've got you've got that stuff to look at as well I think that's a really interesting one too I think what we're coming to the conclusion of here is that every big club for perhaps slightly different reasons it's just really really tough I think Newcastle is one of ambition is of how long the ownership are going to be interested for what they actually want because some people say that oh I heard someone the other day saying Eddie Howe probably won't lose his job because the sound just kind of lost interest in it they wanted a foothold in the Premier League.

41:50They wanted to kind of sports watch whatever they wanted. Well, they had to scale back

41:52Luke Moore: a little bit on certain things. So I was going to say Liv Golf's gone, so I was going to say there's a few things gone. So I think, but it's also definitely a tough job to take. I mean, the difference between that and, so the Chelsea job is you're not going to have a shortage of people who want the Newcastle job because of the money and because of the situation they're in. So yeah, look, it's an interesting situation. I think we're going to see a lot of upheaval in the summer, but then we kind of say that with the odd exception every summer, really. Yeah, you'd say so. shall we finish with this one from Hytor hello to you Hytor he says dear Ramblers hi Hytor Hytor here Brazilian long time listener and friend of the Ramble hello it was lovely to hear Rivaldo's name on the latest My Biddy Aunt now Moji Miriam is such a random club that you deserve to know a bit more about it by the way the G in Moji sounds more like the G in genius than give hence we've just changed it to Moji Miriam I've attached a photo of the mascot I mean you might not be able to see this obviously but the mascot is basically a massive toad called Sapao, which means big toad in Portuguese.

42:47Sapil. Yeah, how would you say it, Marcus?

42:51Luke Moore: Sapil. He looks like a very sleepy slash stoned toad. I think most people would think he looks like a frog. I hope that's not offensive to people. Aside from playing there, Rivaldo was once the president of Mojimirim. In fact, during his stint there, the club's stadium was named after Pope John Paul II, Estadio Papa João Paulo II. but Rivaldo decided to rename it and call it Estadio Romildo Vitor Gomez Ferreira you might ask who was this guy who might be even greater than the Polish Pope well simply enough he was Rivaldo's dad lovely stuff thank you as always for the great show so Rivaldo took over the presidency of Modimirum renamed the stadium after his own old man lovely I think we should have more of that in football like when Harry was at Spurs the Sandra Stadium Maisandra Maisandra yeah it's a stunned no if you want to hold stadium well I mean Ashley wasn't that far off it I'd call it a plate of pasta and a glass of wine in Maisandra stadium that's what he used to say after every time they won a game I probably won't celebrate much I'm a plate of pasta and a glass of wine with Sandra yeah when is Old Trafford going to be the wing stadium it's true it's a question that everyone's asking but we don't have time to answer it now but if you do want to ask us that question then you know what to do on the socials or email us show at footballramble.com or patron people get in touch on our discord there we are we've finished the end of another mailbag thanks for listening to the Football Ramble part of the ACAST Greater Network I'm back tomorrow with Vish and Pete and remember the England watch along is happening for the game against Croatia on the 17th of June get your tickets on Wednesday at 10am if you're a patron person if not you're going to have to wait until Friday to see if there's any left at 10am lovely old job thank you Luke thank you thank you David thank you and thank you Moji Miram

44:43The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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