Mailbag: Should Man United keep Michael Carrick?

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3:30Pete Donaldson: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble Mailbag. Michael Carrick, Victor Jokeresh and Toilet Roll are the orders of the day. It's Tuesday, 5th of May. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Jim Campbell. And I'm Pete Donaldson.

3:54Pete Donaldson: Hello, everybody. It's mailbag time, and that's the time for you to ask us questions. If you want to do that in future, message us on xbluesky or Instagram at FootballRamble. Comment on YouTube or email us, show at footballramble.com. And of course, friends of the Ramble, you guys get priority. Patreon.com forward slash Football Ramble is where you can do that. Or sign up also on YouTube. Now, before we get started with your questions for the mailbag, there is another way that you can get involved this week. Believe it or not, Lions Watch returns tomorrow and it will be streamed live on YouTube.

4:26Pete Donaldson: So join us on the Football Ramble channel on YouTube, of course, at 12pm. And you'll have the chance to ask us a question about England ahead of the World Cup this summer. So search Football Ramble on YouTube Hit subscribe and we'll see you live at 12pm Tomorrow, Wednesday I love our live shows You do, don't you? I love the little live shows, I love watching them You often comment, you don't ask questions You comment, and it's sometimes rude But I usually read them out I think that's fine, isn't it? You want to slag us off? Like Pete? Helps us grow Helps us grow, exactly I'm molding you like a rotten bit of soap in a shower Just like that Right, on to the questions then Peter, you got the first one.

5:06I do have the first one. It comes from Job with a double B. 1989 on Instagram. Should Manchester United keep Carrick third? It was very impressive considering where it started. Hmm. Marcus.

5:19Pete Donaldson: Yes. Well, they weren't third when he took over. No. They were lower than that. Yes. Emotionally. And far lower than that emotionally. And they were not going to get European football. They let us remind ourselves that they were beaten by Grimsby Town in the Cup. They were going nowhere. And the upturn of form under Carrick has been very, very evident. And then we heard on yesterday's show, Cobby Mayne, whose comments about how they're willing to die for him on the pitch and the confidence and the belief he has in all of the players, particularly him, of course, but all the players. So it's been far better under Carrick.

6:00Pete Donaldson: Now, at the moment, Manchester United, my very, very high-level sources have informed me and the rest of the media that Manchester United, the club are looking around and assessing their options. I think that's something that we're all very aware of. And so they are definitely doing that. The chat is, and Vish said this on the show yesterday, he said, if they can't get Andoni, Iriola, then give it to Carrick. Now, it may not be Iriola, the name on other fans' lips, but that's clearly where they are now. They think, right, is there someone who's a more experienced manager, more experienced Premier League manager, or a big hitter?

6:40Pete Donaldson: But as everybody has observed, how many big hitters are there available, and how many are there? There's a few at the World Cup. You know, Thomas Tuchel's name would have been mentioned. I think everybody on the planet is happy if Ancelotti strolls up to your club. but you know manager of Brazil manager of England obviously Tuchel signed that extension at the FA that wouldn't mean too much if he really did want to go back into the Premier League those two teams will have ambitions to go far in that tournament whether they do or not they could meet in a quarter final perhaps but you know surely Manchester United you want a manager to have the whole summer working with the players signing players and so on if it is say Ancelotti and Brazil reach the latter stages it's not going to be Ancelotti but if it is a manager say who's going to reach latter stages of the World Cup, they might not be in the job until sort of mid-July or something like that or maybe even later if they went all the way.

7:33Pete Donaldson: So I don't think they'll be looking at that. I don't think they are, Jim, either. So then you think, well, okay, Luis Enrique. Well, the only argument you could suggest is if PSG win the Champions League again this season, you know, he has done, you know, such an amazing thing. He's created one of the best teams we've seen in recent years and he has proved that indisputably by, well, he's already proved that, but, you know, winning back-to-back Champions Leagues, what else is there to do? Well, you could win it a third time, blah-de-blah-de-blah. I don't think Luis Enrique will go to Manchester United, because I think he...

8:06It seems like a mad idea, doesn't it?

8:08Pete Donaldson: Well, he does, yeah. He's a top target for everyone, just because he essentially is the, clearly, probably the best manager in the world at the moment, when you factor in the fact that Pep Guardiola, you know, is very unlikely to take another managerial club job. He's operating at a much higher level than Guardiola. Yeah, sure. But even so in terms of status, that's kind of the point I'm making. Yeah, sure. It seems unlikely that Guardiola go against United, which is not the point you're making. So all of that aside, I think that should they keep Michael Carrick on? What people are doing is going, well, look what happened at Middlesbrough, or look what that manager did there and so on.

8:47Pete Donaldson: One of the things when De Zerbi came in at Spurs, while he had a slow start at Brighton, oh, but is that what Spurs need? To start, when you try and do this and say, oh, but that manager did that there, I understand totally, we all do it. But sometimes someone just fits in a job, they go with it, they were a little bit younger, they were a little bit more inexperienced, whatever it may be, the different playing field. One of the things that a lot of people have been saying about this is, is it a bit Ole Gunnar Solskjaer? If they hadn't had Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, you imagine that he'd have a bit more of a crack of the whip.

9:20Pete Donaldson: I agree with that point, definitely. I definitely agree with that. And to be honest, most of the managers, you know, the last three postings have been managers who haven't managed in the Premier League or they're slightly untested at this, you know, the top table, so to speak. So you do sort of ask the question, is this, is it one of those things where has the rebuild or the steadying ended at the end of the season? Do we need a few more months of this and maybe, you know, see who's available, you know, heading towards Christmas next year? or would you give Michael Carrick a war chest? Would you give him enough money to sign his own players?

9:55But Michael Carrick's never experienced that before. He's always, in his coaching career, just made do with what he had effectively. Sure, but he wouldn't be doing it alone, though. No, they have Jason Wilcox in there who's quite hands-on sporting director. For me... He wants to be in the dugout. Remember, he was sort of talking to the big... He wanted to be in the dugout, didn't he? I think that's how we'd all like to see this play.

10:18Pete Donaldson: For me, if I was to answer the question as a neutral, I'd say yes. Because you have a guy who's put in a good showing as Manchester United manager. You would think... Without Champions League football, or? Yes, there is that as well, admittedly. A lot of clubs have struggled. But Andoni Arreola's not had Champions League football with Bournemouth. I think Pigs made a different point there, though. Which is that, and this is the great unknown about Carrick, based around Man United playing a 40-game season, right? They've had a lot of rest. They're a lot fresher than pretty much every team they play.

10:52And he's got 10 wins, two draws, two defeats. It was a really, really great record. It's not very many games. No, sure. And he didn't have a hard act to follow. No, absolutely. It's extremely unlikely that they would be in the same sort of form or certainly kind of performing at the same sort of level if they had the huge amount of extra games that come in the Champions League and if they'd had a cup run in either cup as well. That's going to be something they factor in. So I think that is going to be the one thing that maybe gives him a little bit of pause, right? Because Iriola's not had that with Bournemouth, of course, but he wouldn't expect to have that with Bournemouth, and he's going to have far bigger, greater resources at his disposal if indeed he ends up being the guy that takes over at Man United.

11:31Pete Donaldson: Glasner's had it at Palace. True. His name is being mentioned. Julian Nagelsmann as well. That's a funny one, isn't it? Nagelsmann's the big link, isn't it? But that's another one you might have to wait for. Because of the World Cup, yeah. Yeah, I think that's surely a non-starter. But then I suppose though, if you think, well, Nagelsmann, let's say Germany do make latter stages of the World Cup and he can only come in mid to late July, which is quite close to the end of the season. But if you truly think, well, that guy knows a bit more about all this sort of stuff than say Michael Carrick, then you'd say, well, I'd rather that than a Michael Carrick who's had a couple more months in the job.

12:06Pete Donaldson: the reason why I think McCarrick is because he I just think comparing him to Solskjaer I just think it's unfair I think they're just two totally different men and I don't think that's a good comparison because Sort of on both of them as well because Solskjaer actually did pretty well Yeah, what did he finish? Second and third? I mean, you know it's a funny old time The only thing again mentioned this before that with Manchester United though is that there's no guarantee that you can just oh well we'll be fine we're now back in the Champions League and whatever happens next season and the season after will finish in the Champions League places, which seemed to be the case when Solskjaer came in, for example.

12:43Pete Donaldson: So there is no guarantee of that. So you've got to make sure you get your appointments right. But everything's a gamble. But they're also, like I say, it is not within ridiculous thinking, I think, that Man Utd could think, well, how ambitious do we go next season? Only because I think, you know, bear with me, whatever happens, I think Arsenal will improve next season. all right whatever happens okay certainly if they win the league because the monkey's off the back and whatnot but I think you know I think Arteta will definitely be there again even if they have a mare and they throw it all away Manchester City Pep will almost certainly leave in the summer even if he did stay I still think you know we're seeing him very much in the twilight of his career but I don't think he will stay I think you know the smart money suggests he's going to go Liverpool Liverpool keeping Arna Slott, I think, has raised a few eyebrows.

13:39Pete Donaldson: I mean, Jamie Carragher was saying about, he doesn't seem to be gone on that idea. And they've got a lot of work to do in the summer. Chelsea, goodness knows, by the law of averages, they'll be challenging for the title. But, you know, I don't think the law of averages are around anymore because of the new ownership and so on and so forth. Labouring to make the point that Manchester United, Champions League football is a very distinct possibility next season. and dare I be a little bit cheeky and say maybe even an outside, an Aston Villa-esque outside tilt for the title, certainly early on in the season, and you never know where you're up.

14:13Pete Donaldson: People might laugh at that and fair enough. But the conditions for that exact type of thing, as you're suggesting, are kind of, you know, they're more favourable to Man United than they have been in a while. Well, totally, yeah. I mean, basically, you get the appointment correct, and you have a pretty good squad. Squad's not bad. You build on that. my goodness, where can you go next season? Because of the lack of sheer quality at the top of the table, you might argue. So I think that's probably why they're just waiting. I think the type of guy that Sir Jim Ratcliffe is, he will want a big hitter, quite simply.

14:49Pete Donaldson: But can he get one? I think that with Carrick, also you've got Steve Holland as well there, who's an experienced operator. He's not got some chump next to him. And a guy who has definitely got the best out of some of those defenders and other players who's helped Carrick enormously. I think, again, from where I'm sitting, I think it is worth giving Carrick a go because there's a lot going for him. As I say, the Kobe Mayan who's commented, the players seem to be playing for him. He's finished the season very, very well. And I think Carrick always strikes me as quite, you know, a deep thinker and intelligent bloke when it comes to football and so on.

15:25Pete Donaldson: And I just think, you know, if you can do it with one of your guys, that does add an extra little thing. I know you might say, well, that's a bit of reductions, but I do think it does. So I just think with the perhaps lack of options or the inexperienced Premier League options available, I think it's worth a go. And Glasner will want to play a back three and they're done with that. Yeah, I think the whole he knows the club thing is something that has been turned into a little bit of a joke on this show, hasn't it? Oddly used against him. Yeah, I think it's because of the Solskjaer thing, isn't it?

15:59But there is an element to it. It's the parking space. Yeah, the parking space wasn't great, was it? But there is an element of that, particularly with Man United, where it is a good thing that he understands all of the stuff, the environmental stuff even, that you have to get UC when you come into a new place. He knows that. Of course, he knows the history because he's an important part of it. We've seen Ruben Amirim struggle with that. Even Eric Ten Hag, who's a seasoned operator. They come into Man United and they don't know, they haven't realized how big it is. and I'm sure that would be true of any of us as well.

16:31It's obviously a massive thing and that is unique to a few clubs. Man United are one of them and I think actually that's a massive boon for Carrick. I think he's got them playing interesting football and it's fun to watch and it fits with a lot of their values which are essentially to just be really good on the counter-attack because that's entertaining. The one thing where I wonder if the board might have paused for thought is that what Man United really want is to get back to the top table and stay there as permanently as it's possible for a club to. They're a massive club. They print money, effectively, because of the size of them.

17:09And it's infuriating to them that they're not there. They might look at Carrick and go, he's a really good manager and he's going to get us in the right direction. But if they say, take a punt on the ceiling that Andoni or Aiola has, they might look at that and go, that ceiling's higher. That ceiling might mean league titles, last stage of the Champions League, maybe if he'll go to the plan, even winning it, if we can keep building the squad in the right way. So I think that's the pause for thought they will have. I would be thrilled for Michael Carrick if he got the job. And I actually think to actually answer the question, I kind of agree with you.

17:46I think they should. I think he can't really have done much more in this situation. There are caveats to it, but I think he certainly earned the opportunity to have a go at it. And, you know,

17:57Pete Donaldson: there are always going to be good managers available in the future. But also as well, just to add to that, again, this short period he's been in charge of the club and done really, really well, that shouldn't be used against him. When people go, yeah, but he's not had European football. He's not had this ever. Fine, to spin it another way. Well, do you know, with the short period he's had, he's done really well. So that gives him experience. I don't think it is being used against him. Well, people... It's just rationalising that he'll probably have a harder run next season. Yeah, fine. Which may be...

18:25Pete Donaldson: Indeed, and I get that point but to put it another way well he's had time to bed in at a kinder party so he gets that experience and so he can go in the new season he's passed the theory test here we go he's done the theory test he can drive a 125cc motorcycle yes but he can't drive a car quite yet or he can do automatic but he can't do manual can you reverse drive a monster truck in 130 characters should Carrick get the job I think Manchester United have had too many can kicking seasons and this might be seen as another can kicking season so get a get a manager in who's got a bit of experience who's got a bit of razzle dazzle right and let's see him in the dugout for next season where you've got European football Jose Mourinho it is Jose Mourinho it is a proven winner it doesn't matter in what era alright then well coming up after this have we been hard on Victor Jokeresh

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22:12political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective and a squad of Americans, including me on the ground with the US national team Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge try On The Ball. It's a game in the Guardian app and it's really, really fun And if you're into stuff like this

22:27Pete Donaldson: Well I think the problem is if you give footballers an inch they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much, it's a bit too real. Maybe you could just talk with a slight delay Be sure to listen to our Football Weekly podcast for On The Move expert analysis. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. You're a pro at running your life, at committing to your workout, at showing up every day. At Bombas, we're pros too. Pros at making socks. Our sport assortment has specialized socks for whatever sport you're committed to. Running, hiking, golf, Pilates, and so much more.

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23:23Pete Donaldson: Welcome back, everybody. Got a question from snakes make no sense on YouTube. The plicitous snakes. If you've ever read the Bible, naughty. The discourse around And Jokeresh seems to be that he is just not good enough for Arsenal. After a 21-goal season in all comps, brackets so far, is that a fair assessment or do you think he's being unfairly judged because he doesn't fit the traditional Arsenal striker mould? Jim, is there a traditional striker Arsenal mould? I didn't think probably nowadays... They're not having one since right here, I think. I think you might be right there, Petey. I mean, even Sirion Rhee wasn't a sort of traditional striker.

24:06No, Haberts. Schumach.

24:08Pete Donaldson: Giroud, probably. Yeah, Giroud would be a proper striker. Because Van Persie wasn't... I suppose... Actually, yeah, Van Persie's definitely the last one. You're right, you're right. But we don't talk about him. So, Victor Jokeres is a perplexing player, and I think it's easy to be wise after the fact, with this type of assessment, and go, Ah, look, you're saying we've been rubbish all season, and now look... The discourse has come from performances over the course of the season, and there have been games where he's looked off the level. Now, the numbers are impressive and we'll come on to that.

24:35There have been quite a few occasions on this season where he's been in a one-on-one with a defender and he's either lost the foot race or he's not been strong enough to actually turn that into an opportunity. And it's completely natural to look at that and go, hmm, in these big moments, he's not delivering. And you also look at the big moments against the really big teams. You look at him and you think, is this a guy that's going to get a goal out of nothing against Bayern Munich or PSG? No. But that doesn't actually necessarily matter as long as he is scoring in the other games. It's really, really important to have a striker that can pick up those goals against the so-called lesser opponents.

25:17And I think that's a really important thing.

25:20Pete Donaldson: So if I may, Jim, just to jump in and riff off that point. Do you think he's being unfairly judged? I think actually to phrase the question, I get why that snakes make no sense as asked us that. But I think perhaps the way I'm looking at it is, the question is, has he improved Arsenal this season from last season? And I think the answer to that is a yes, not an all caps exclamation mark yes. But I think he has because of the goals that he's provided. Now, yes, they did that chart, didn't they, on was it Match of the Day or Sky Sports or wherever, where they said, well, look at the opponents he scored against in the Premier League this season.

26:00Pete Donaldson: And none of them are the big sides. But Arsenal have not been good against the big sides this season. And man on, you know, player versus player, there's going to be some good defenders in there that he's facing off against. Sure. And he does struggle against that. Yeah. Which is part of where this discourse comes from. Yeah. And I think that he scored goals, you know, he has scored goals against teams that by and large are in the lower half of the table or were in the lower half of the table when he faced them. so he doesn't score against the bigger sides in the Premier League he's got some goals in Europe away to Inter for example he's scored twice against Atletico as well yeah and has another chance tonight to do that so I think has he improved Arsenal?

26:41Pete Donaldson: my suggestion would be yes because Jim those games that Arsenal have needed to win the smaller games where you've got to put them away he scored them a lot of them have been penalties okay fine but he still scored that not that many No, but I just wanted to address that because I think people might sort of want to bring it up. It's not like he's got 10 penalties though. No, but the fact is, you know, he's put them away. So I don't want to dwell on that point too much. But I think it's a huge ask. But you have to remember the context in which he comes into Arsenal. He comes into an Arsenal team who are desperate and very ready to win a Premier League title.

27:16Pete Donaldson: And dare I even say a Champions League or at least go far. He's the guy where they're going, right. if you're saying you're the guy who's going to get us over the line you're the guy who's going to score 20 plus goals in the Premier League because of 21 in all comps you're going to do this you're going to do that that's a lot for someone who yes he's played in England but he's never played at a club like Arsenal and I think with Jokeres I think to judge him on next season will be more accurate absolutely that's always how forward players should be judged well I would say I don't think that's a cop out though because I understand again he can't be total crap because they've signed him for a reason you've got to hit the ground running different style of play and going into a club that has a bit of a nervousness around it you know people got bottle jobs you finish second and so on to then sort of say right you're the guy I think that's a little bit unfair I'm not trying to be wise after the event I think Jokeres has done okay this season I don't think he's been rubbish and I think if people have been I think people were too harsh to criticise him earlier but I don't think to suddenly go, well, actually, you see, those who said he was good at privilege, I don't think that's true either.

28:23Pete Donaldson: I think he's done okay. What price 21 goals, you know, how much money are you outlaying for 21 goals a season? It's going to be around about, you know, 50 million, isn't it? That is... Well, at this point, that's the... And I come from a... I support a club that, you know, signed two 50 million forward players who are dreadful who have not scored anywhere near that amount. Valtimato was more than that. Valtimato was more than that. But what do you think? I think the times I've seen Gokre's, um, um, at his frustrating best or worst rather, you're right, Jim is one-on-one sort of stuff and his sort of slight, he's a bit wafer thin at times, isn't he?

28:59He's a bit, he's a bit soft, but like, he looks solid. Yeah. I mean, he has improved on that, but certainly earlier in the season, there were times it's like he's, I can see that he's a strong man, but he was getting sort of wrestled off the ball quite easily. But he has got better at that. I think that's just anticipating people's body shapes as they move towards you. But like, I would say that like, the amount of times Arsenal, because of their obsession with control and being, to be honest, slightly risk averse, the amount of times he's making a run and the team just do not advance the ball up the field, that obviously didn't happen at the weekend.

29:27And, you know, they actually found the ball, you know, at his feet a few times. Strikers need a couple of chances to get him in. He deserves more chances. He needs the ball in front of his feet. Right. His feet is a problem. And this is actually part of the issue that there is a technical gap between him and the other attacking players in this team, even though those players haven't necessarily been delivering at their best standards. How's he been in the Champions League where teams play a bit more expansive stuff? He's done all right, actually. He scored a really good goal in San Siro against Inter, which is obviously great.

29:57Got a couple of goals against Atletico, but they were sort of bundled in. But again, they all count. So I think part of the reason that we're even having this conversation, to go back to that, is the technical side of his game. I don't think Arsenal were perfectly calibrated to plays with strengths at the moment. But earlier on in the season, they were trying to get him into those one-on-ones and stuff and he wasn't delivering on them. I think that might have given Arteta some pause for thought on how best to use him. I think there might have been a time where he wasn't quite sure of how best to use him.

30:27Now, against Fulham, he was excellent with a technical hold-up play and with a kind of quicker thinking. And obviously, the players around him were better as well, which makes a massive difference to a striker like that. Was he signed as the main guy though? I just thought it was nice to have kind of like, we need a few more goals on the side and this guy will probably provide it. I mean, you look at Giroud, he's like I mean, he was a one in two, approaching a one in two striker wasn't he? And he didn't always kind of he wasn't always the best forward in the side. I think but Giroud played in a very different aspect.

30:58I realise it's a different style but I'm just saying

31:01Pete Donaldson: that sometimes you need those players who can put in But different in terms of what they were going to achieve. They were never going to win the league with around those times. But Arteta's intention, I think, was to rotate him with Havertz quite a bit more. But obviously Havertz hasn't been available for large chunks of the season and coming back from injuries, like missed chunks again as well. But Arteta needs to articulate that in pressers. Like, he just needs to sort of go, this is how it's supposed to be. I don't think you can do that. No, I don't think you can, because you undercut the value of your striker, right?

31:26Yeah, but then the striker... We didn't actually want this guy to play that much. No, no, no. It was like, I would have liked to have had a bit more time to introduce him into the side, but because of the injury, it means that I'm having to play him a bit more. That's not ideally how I'd want to introduce him. And I think it's just like that, just to give him a bit more confidence, a bit more cover as well. I don't think he lacks the confidence. Because he's more than time and he's, right, okay.

31:46Pete Donaldson: I mean, yeah, but would you agree on my point that he's improved Arsenal even just a little bit this season? 21 goals! Good question, yeah. How dare you? No one's scored more goals in a single season under Arteta than Jokeres, which tells its own story. And he's the first player to get 20 since Alexis Sanchez in, I think, 2015 in a debut season. He just doesn't pass the eye test, does he? I think this is a big part of it, yeah. But again, though, I think the flaws in his game are there, and I think probably there to stay. So I think he has probably... Has he improved Arsenal? It's not a simple question.

32:19I think after last season, yeah, Arsenal were better this season than they were last season, and he's the main goal scorer for them, so demonstrably, yes. The initial question, though, is you know, the discourse seems to be that he's just not good enough for Arsenal. is that a fair assessment? I don't think it is I think he's actually he's proven that while he might not fit the aesthetic or the expectation that you have for someone playing for Arsenal he scored 21 goals and in an ideal world he's on a job share with Kai Havertz so yeah I think fair play to him

32:50Pete Donaldson: credit where it's due but also I want to highlight this you know he's playing for a side again who are going for Premier League Champions League and so on yes if you put him up think about all the other sides in the Champions League is he as good as as Manu Dembele? Is he as good as Harry Kane? Is he as good as Julian Alvarez? Of course not. There's a drop-off there and I don't think he'll ever get to those kind of levels. I get that totally. But Arsenal had a look around and thought, what do we need? They wanted a proper striker. There wasn't many to choose from and, you know, Cesko was linked as well.

33:20Pete Donaldson: He was Arteta's first choice. Right, interesting. Andrea Berta really pushed the vote out for Jokeres. There wasn't that many to realistically go for. I think he has improved Arsenal a little bit this year. has he been unfairly judged yes and no next season I think will really show if Jokers is you know another season and so on but look good question from snakes makes no sense and a question that I think will probably still be being asked next season I don't know I don't know so Javier has been in touch and he says hello Ramblers I enjoyed the bemused reception from a lot of English fans after Atletico Stadium was filled with toilet paper last week before playing Arsenal this actually happened semi-frequently in Argentinian football.

34:01So my question is, what's one fan tradition that you found out about over the years that completely surprised you?

34:07Pete Donaldson: Well, I always think of toilet roll being chucked in a South American tradition. So as he says, semi-frequently Argentinian football. I can't remember it that often in a big club in Europe. Also happens in the Smashing Pumpkins video for 1979. So perhaps it's a reference to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think people... People toilet roll like trees, don't they? Yes. That music video in particular. In American high school culture, they go on toilet roll trees in celebration or in abuse. Right, okay. It's hard to know, isn't it? Hey, brah, you tree garden off toilet roll! That sort of thing. Right, okay.

34:43Pete Donaldson: So specifically, Snake from The Simpsons. That time, yeah. And as we've already found out, as we already know, snakes make no sense. So, you know, why would you? I mean, is this a tradition? but people smoking marijuana at the Nou Camp. Oh, yeah, and it was the same at the Bernabeu. It was just two very bifta heavy trips for us. Passive bifta, I suppose. I was very... I was thrilled to smell that again when we went to the Bernabeu because we went to the Camp Nou the first time. This is just a thing they do. I was disgusted by the way. Sure. Sticky icky. Yeah. You were doing citizen's arrests all over the place.

35:19You were. I don't count it. No, you weren't hearing that at the time though, were you? They weren't either. No, you weren't. You were giddy on your lemon Fanta because you were on holiday. Yeah. Full of sugar. Paprika crisps. In Camp Nou, they shell peanuts as well, don't they? It's one of the sort of snacks. So there were a lot of people just sitting there shelling peanuts off their heads, laughing every time Barcelona did something impressive, which at that time was about every 30 seconds. It was a very weird, very different experience.

35:48Pete Donaldson: It was a four-nil route, wasn't it? It was like they were beavers and butted watching football. It was a bit like that, yeah. It was Barca Inter we saw, didn't it? That's right. Yeah, that's right. In the group stage, no, not the semi-final. But Messi was injured, wasn't he? Remember? Pretty annoying. The Amoeba, who much didn't play either. Overdosed on bifters. Yeah, so I don't know. I mean, I don't know if that is a sort of a tradition, if you like. I mean, what are the fan traditions? I mean, there are some funny ones. There are some great ones in English football, but they might be for a particular game or a particular date or a particular phase of the season or whatever.

36:28Pete Donaldson: So like Preston North End, for example, with the bowler hats and the suits and all. They do it at one... The away fans do that one day a year. Hartley Buller wear. They always dress up as something. What, in every game or a particular... The last away fiction. The last away fiction. So that's quite a good... I like that. But the Preston North End, I think, is because it's like honouring the club's past and past fans or players or something like that. So that's quite a nice... A little bit different I understand, to the toilet paper. But I mean, staying in Spain, you know, the white handkerchiefs coming out when they've just had enough.

37:02Pete Donaldson: I enjoy that, because you've got to get one. Because it's like, yeah, you actively have to participate in it as well, and there is a really aloof quality to that. Oh, it's lovely. We've given up on you, almost like we're throwing in the towel. Is there some sort of... But it's that aloof quality that I really like, because here, it's, you know, sack the board, sack the board. And I think that's great. Well, Well, sadly, if you need to do that, and that's obviously kind of impactful, but you are a big mob chanting. Do you know what I mean? Whereas if you're waving handkerchiefs, as you say, it's almost like we've got the power.

37:35Pete Donaldson: Do you know what I mean? It's like, dismiss, next one's. I love that. It's a bit like the tennis balls without quite as being as extreme as that, like when people throw tennis balls onto the pitch. It's such an effective process. That's exactly right. It's effective. But the handkerchiefs are so visible. Yeah. So, so visible. it's a real shaming of the ball I never heard the chanting you saw the hangarchiefs though absolutely you bloody saw that so yeah the hangarchiefs is quite a nice one yeah I like the earlier galaxy sort of hype man I mean you see it quite a lot in some sort of Eastern European stuff you just have one guy who just got a microphone inexplicably got a microphone well Basel when they went to Fulham that time we saw shirt off shirt off lads yeah yeah a mate of mine went to I think it was Inter actually at San Siro and yeah you get that with that one fan he was just like he was a leader of war.

38:22Pete Donaldson: But like the MLS guys, they seem to have like competing ultras groups. Do you know what I mean? Like the Galaxians, the LA Riot Squad, for example, the Angel City Brigade, and other supporters groups around the stadium. You don't feel like there's enough people there to actually, you know, have three or four groups just competing on who's the best and most efficient, efficient supporters group in the ground. Yeah, true. In MLS. Very true. Yeah. I mean, the weed smoking definitely surprised me. Yeah. Flag, there's like stands in Japan that are just the most, you know, the ultra, very polite version of ultras.

38:58But they're big on their own big flags. Big, like, so the whole stand. But did it completely surprise you? Yeah, it did, because it was just, it was a singing, nobody sang or really got involved around, they politely applauded because something good happened. But then there was one stand where the flag people and the shouting people and the singing people all were, and everybody else. the other three corners of the ground weren't getting involved at all

39:21Pete Donaldson: okay interesting and excellent food as well when I went to watch Millwall play there was something that the fans did which I quite liked is they basically so you get a normal chant or a bit of things sometimes it's not even words it's just a wee or whatever at one point it would just simmer around the ground and they would all go for it they would just go and they would just start making like this aggressive like come on sort of noise and that was I really enjoyed that but it was it was something I had not noticed at any other ground. As I say, it was like a few people, it was almost like a Mexican wave, but like way better and not wanky.

39:54Pete Donaldson: And it just sort of went around the ground and boom, there you go. I think we were all surprised with the Icelandic thunderclap, weren't we? That's one of the great things about the major tournaments, the way these things seem to arrive fully formed out of nowhere. I tell you what, the one fan tradition I think completely surprised everybody was Japan supporters and I think South Korean supporters as well. Tidying up. Tidying up after. You have to say, that was very... He's quite performative. Leave the filth where you'd like to leave the filth. Let's be honest about what we are. Exactly. Disgusting bags of meat.

40:28Leaving a trail of filth everywhere we go.

40:31Pete Donaldson: Exactly, yeah. It was a terrible surprise, that. All right, coming up after this, Eddie Howe is staying at Newcastle, apparently. Sorry, Richard.

40:43Who?

40:44Pete Donaldson: Richard Keyes, Richard.

40:49Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, Senior Sports Editor from The Guardian. And whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary Football Weekly podcast, The Guardian. Bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. We all belong outside.

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42:52Harry has been in touch on Internet Cesspit X. And he says, David Ornstein has spoken. Eddie Howe seems to be staying next season. Is it the right decision? Now, of course, Richard Keyes recently said he had sources very high up in the game who said that there was going to be a lot of managerial change in the summer and that he thought Eddie Howe was toast. That turned out to be bullshit. Bad toast.

43:19Pete Donaldson: Well, yeah, he might say. He will eventually be proven right, I'm sure. Yeah, who are the four? He had Arteta, quite brilliantly. You think Arteta, if he doesn't get over the line, he's gone. Marco Silva, slightly safer bet. I think it was maybe Andoni Areola. No, it was Pep Guardiola, when we're all aware that he's almost certainly leaving. Someone has stitched up Paul Richard. Paul Richard. so shame on them. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was an interesting sort of weekend for Eddie because obviously they had that big summit meeting at, is it Matfenhall? I can't remember. It's a fancy castle, basically.

43:53That's right, yes. And they played slightly better or certainly had more of the rub of the green against Brighton at home and it was by no means an assured performance, but it did put a little bit of daylight between them and the relegation chasing pack. Yeah, it sort of bashes that chat. It bashes that chart. Flat, doesn't it? Flat. What a weird phrase we've both just invented. Bashed it flat. Like one of those coin machines you get at tourist attractions. You make your own coin. Yeah. It squished Eddie Howe's Newcastle team as relegation fodder. I mean, I would say that you had football players with red training cones on their feet and head points in this match.

44:37It did feel like a last game of the season kind of vibe. But that's still, given that Brighton are in a really good position and fighting hard for Europe, and have kind of done a really sort of surprising, not surprising, but impressive kind of race up the table. They haven't been beaten for a while, and Newcastle lost the back of four losses. Yeah, that's a great result, surely. It's a long way for them to travel, and obviously that takes that out of you as well. No, it doesn't. Chairman Yasser Al-Ramayan, obviously, also was having a bit of a kickabout on the touchdown, and he booted the ball at staff members head.

45:13Is that what you did at one point? So I'm just saying that nobody, I'm just saying nobody had a good afternoon. But you know, When you're the king, you can do anything. You can do anything. Or at least you know the king anyway. But yeah, I don't think I can take another, you know, season of Joe Willock on or Joe Willock off. 60 minutes. I can't take another season of the gaslighting from Eddie Howe in the post matches. he's going to have an easy season he just flat out lies in the pre-match saying who's going to be playing and who's not going to be playing and then when he comes out he says I think we played quite well when again we talk about the eye test with Gokrej Newcastle have not passed the eye test at any point this season in perhaps three matches they did and one of them was against Barcelona and stuff and PSG they've been considerably more awful than the season before a lot of his kind of most talented players or certainly the players you've been most loyal to are kind of aged out.

46:12We're obviously going to be losing the trip here. You'd probably say they probably need to make a decision about players like Dan Brown and Scher. Say again? Scher's going. Is Scher going? I didn't even know that. What? Oh my goodness. That handsome man. That's going to take down the handsome quotient. They're going to have to bring in some absolute spunkers in the transfer market. Awful. Terrible news. And he's obviously Volta Marder is a Get me some spunkers. Volta Marder is a huge I mean it's going to be a bit of a like a pretty good decent like blue chip kind of fire sale. Volta Marder looks like he's out because he just seems surely not after one season.

46:47He had the chance to play him at the weekend and he didn't. I just think he doesn't he thinks that he didn't try hard enough in training. But Eddie Howes refused to kind of build the team around a striker that he didn't really want. So Elanghi you think will probably come into some sort of form next season. Same with Wisser as well. Wisser is just a great guy at this moment in time. he will get better he will get a tune out of him I believe and without European football there's just less you know less miles to go through

47:13Pete Donaldson: I should clarify I was a bit quick on the the spunker situation right okay I think Fabien Scher his contract's up at the end of the season yes and Eddie Howe's worried that he will leave oh well you know what you know what there's a way to fix that Eddie there is maybe get your get your nephew to put a contract in front of him probably a good idea isn't it yeah well he may well leave he may well leave and so they'll be needing spunkers as you say. Yeah, but I mean look, they've got a cover with Chow and Bottman and stuff like that. It's not as grim as it used to be in the back line. He's got a bit of a keeper crisis to deal with.

47:48I don't understand why Pope's getting played over what else he's got on the bench. And you're going to be losing probably Tonali, possibly Bruno, definitely Gordon and maybe Valtimada as well. It's going to be, he's going to have a lot of money in the pot to spend. It's a big summer for Newcastle. Yeah, and I don't think you're going to get upgrades on players like Denali. Do you really think they would lose all of those players? I think everyone's got a price tag, and they are some of those players that you would sort of get out of Newcastle for like 60 million. Whereas if you're trying to pry, you know, players from like Arsenal or something or Man City, you're obviously going to be looking at your 100 millions and stuff.

48:29So I think they're... Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain is still our biggest out-going sale. So I take your point, but Arsenal, not a good example. No, but you're right.

48:37Pete Donaldson: I think, look at Tonali. How many teams will think, let's test Newcastle United's resolve with him. Massive in the summer. And it sounds very much like they want to go. They want to play Champions League football, these players. It's supposed to be a club that's playing Champions League football with that amount of money going in. I just can't see why. Well, I think that's a big factor, Peter, because I think, you know, Newcastle played Champions League football. They played knockout football in the Champions League this season. That is, players want more of that. Of course they do. And the sport, it was their best night.

49:02Pete Donaldson: It was their best performances. And when you, I mean, Newcastle United, I don't think too many people would have them down with any European football next season. Not even Conference League or Europa League. So, you know, that is a damning thing. And the owners have, okay, looks like he's staying. That's why 400 million gets you. Yeah. Well, is it the right decision? I still, because it's been, by and large, quite a romantic thing, I know with Saudis, the piff posse and George and so on. But winning that... The Carabao Cup was massive, wasn't it? Yeah, it was huge. The Carabao Cup is the, you know, that is the climax of the romance, you know, you would say.

49:47Pete Donaldson: Spunker. Indeed, yeah, with all those spunkers. And obviously playing Champions League and bloodying the nose of Europe's elite, there's been some great times with Eddie Howe at Newcastle United and obviously with old Tindall by his side. and I don't know I sort of want it to work I want them to get back to what he can do there but again as we've said about Manchester United next season I don't think Newcastle are going to bother the title race you get it all right you could well be in contention for Champions League football places for next season that's got to be the goal is Eddie how can he do that this season has been a bit of a funny season do you blame it on the injuries?

50:31Pete Donaldson: Do you blame it on a bit of inertia? A bit of a disappointing summer transfer window last time around. The players they went for, they ended up going to Man United or elsewhere. And chaos in the ballroom as well. I think this is a big factor that's going into this decision. It's still going to be disrupted by World Cup performances. It's still going to be disrupted. You're always going to have something like that. But it was a shockingly poor start to the season, acquisition-wise. Nobody could have seen Wisser been out for so long and I do think he'll start scoring again. He has to because it's just maddening how poor he's been lately.

51:06But I just, I do think Eddie Howe, five years in or whatever, I bet I've busted flush with Newcastle United. He'll go to another club, he'll have a great time, but I think at this point in time, I have to say Eddie Howe, he's, I don't think he's going to get a tune out of, he's going to have that extra time with the team. We've seen historically, certainly this season where he's had more time, they seem to be performing worse. And when Newcastle have had two days to sort of prepare for a really important match, you know, they've beaten Chelsea and stuff. It's like, yeah, it's a shame really. I think, you know, the summer was interesting, wasn't it?

51:44Essentially it was defined by incoherent squad building. A lot of that was kind of beyond their control because of the Ezek situation and a lack of sporting director being there and being unable to get their top targets. It was really far from ideal. as a summer, I think how staying on feels like acknowledgement of that. It feels like a sense that, okay, you know, this was difficult for you last year. Let's give you another chance with a more stable set of circumstances. But I do wonder what the expectation is. Is he expected to... It's got to be getting back in Europe next season. Well, quite.

52:15Yeah, but is it really top five? Is it, you know, there's going to be some squad churn. We'll give you some money. You've got to sort of essentially do a really, really quick rebuild job I think it's an interesting one

52:26Pete Donaldson: I think it has to be Europe Europa League minimum next season that's got to be the target so whether or not it's the right decision 400 million for that come on Jim is it the right decision Pete says no and there'll be more money now what are you saying they'll be spending even more money now you can give us a percentage you can say 51 % of you think yay or nay I agree with Pete actually I think I think they should twist I think they should twist because there needs to be a sort of hasty semi-rebuild right so maybe it's a good time to start a new era it's the right time to go there's no point in doing this November when he's just you know smashed the team I think with Iriola and Glasner available I think that that would be maybe wise to look at there alright we're going to finish with this from friend of the ramble Craig on email with Jesse Lingard leaving South Korea and settling in at Corinthians in Brazil brackets scored again in the Copa Libertadores recently is there a player in recent memory who Pete would more want to body swap with it's not bad is it it's lovely but it's a very definition of a lovely old job I want to give everybody an update on Corinthians one of the big sides in Brazil they're currently 17th in Serie A yeah that's what the Brazilians call their top flight 17th they're in the bottom four Lingard is by far much more used as a sub who always comes on rather than a starter but still Pete Donaldson that's a lovely I was so it warmed me cockles when he went to Corinthians in Brazil I know they're not they're a bit down on their luck at the moment it's a huge club though totally different environment and another totally different experience it's weird I've never seen Jesse Lingard in budgie smugglers but I just think he plays like he's wearing budgie smugglers do you know what I mean he plays like he's having a good time yeah I think it's a lovely move so yeah who else would you like to body swap with I'll always say Kesuke Honda the Japanese international he is a man born in kind of Osaka area and he basically he started in Nagoya Grand Passat then he went to the Dutch League then he went to the Russian League then he went to AC Milan then he went to Pachuca in Mexico then he went to Melbourne then he went to Vitesse then he went to Buttefogo then Baku then Sudava in where is that Lithuania then he went into Raelic then Paro then Paro in Bhutan and then FC he's back he retired he was the manager of Cambodia for four years and then he was back he's just come out of retirement to play for Albrecht's Niigata not in the Japanese city of Niigata it's the one based in Singapore he refuses to play anywhere in Japan which is humorous despite being a man who's nearly got 100 caps for Japan he's just floated around his entire life his politics are atrocious but he like mine we both deny the Nanjing massacre as well

55:26but he's a terrible man but he makes terribly good decisions when it comes to travelling

55:31Pete Donaldson: what a baffling answer well a rolling stone gathers no moss exactly yeah and you'd love a bit of that how about you Marcus? body swaps Alan Pardew

55:48what are you going to do say you've got a week as Alan Pardew How are you turning his life around? What are you going to change? Go back to the glazing game.

55:56Pete Donaldson: When he turned up at my old church in London that morning, just for a brief time, I would have stayed. I would have stayed and listened to the whole service. Who would I body swap with? I don't know. Somebody sexy, surely. Luke Moore. Luke Moore, you reckon? Yeah. You can tidy him up? Yeah. No, it's not a question of tidy him up. It's just, you know, he's got a better life than me. See, I'd want to spend a week as Mauro Arcadi. I just want to understand. Oh, no, Jim. No. It was great. Just constantly smelling burning and going, what is that? You'd need therapy for the rest of your life. No, I wouldn't.

56:27Pete Donaldson: All right, fair enough. Tom Kearney, because he is the best. All right, thanks very much for listening to Football Ramp, a part of the ACAST Creator Network. I'll be back tomorrow with Jim and Vish, where we will be talking about that Arsenal-Atletico Madrid semifinal, Jim. Ooh! Who's going to lose in the final? See you tomorrow.

57:01The Football Ramble is a stack production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

57:12Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. Whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. From one of the fastest-growing soccer newsrooms, The Guardian brings you in-depth World Cup coverage that gets into the winners and losers on and off the pitch. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective, and a squad of Americans, including me, on the ground with the U.S.

57:44national team. Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge, try On the Ball. It's a game in the Guardian app and it's really, really fun. And if you're into stuff like this.

57:52Pete Donaldson: Well, I think the problem is if you give footballers an inch, they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much. It's a bit too real. Maybe you could just talk with a slight delay. Be sure to listen to our Football Weekly podcast for on the move expert analysis. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. This is Robert Mace from The Athletic Football Show. The men's warehouse is here to make you look and feel good no matter the occasion. From formal to casual, dressed down to dressed up, their in-store experts will help you find the right outfit for that thing you got on the calendar.

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