Mailbag: Should Manchester United sack Ruben Amorim?

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3:07Luke Moore: Hello everybody, welcome to the Football Rebel Mailbag. Ruben Amarim, Graham Potter and Bruce Forsyth are the orders of the day. It's Tuesday 30th of September, I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm Jim Campbell.

3:30Luke Moore: Hello everybody, good to have you with us on the Mailbag. it's that time again where we answer the good listeners questions Luke

3:39Jim Campbell: your sack is bulging today Marcus I noticed that the moment you walked in to do this mailbag today I thought Marcus's sack is bulging it's going to be a great one it's going to be full of Marcus's correspondence deposits

3:51Luke Moore: that is going to spill everywhere it is

3:53Jim Campbell: we hope so

3:54Luke Moore: well if I'm aroused enough now of course if you want a question on the mailbag get in touch on x blue sky or Instagram at football ramble you can comment on YouTube or email us show at footballramble.com and of course friends of the ram will get priority on the old discord and we're going to start with a question from dead fox on discord who says is there actually any point sacking reuben amarin this season no yes uh the next question no he said or do you just limp along and plan to go for thomas tuchel after the world cup for example or make a real plan to get a manager in the summer and give them a decent chance of having a full pre-season and getting settled properly.

4:32Luke Moore: Amarim, of course, did have a full pre-season. Dead Fox says, obviously Amarim is basically a dead man walking at this point, but with the manager market looking like it does at the moment, is there much point replacing him now and starting the mid-season cycle instead of aiming to give the next manager, whoever that is, the best chance possible, to not be an embarrassment? And that's where we are with Manchester United. The next manager to not be an embarrassment. Jim Campbell, what do you think about this? It's tempting to look at the situation at Man United in the round I just think there's no real point to any of it.

5:00Luke Moore: Do you know what I mean? It's just like we've kind of been through so many different scenarios now. And we probably had this exact same conversation about Eric Ten Hag around this time last season, probably the season before that as well. We are six league games into the season. So obviously there is a long way to go. And I think we are all broadly in agreement, right, that it looks like he's unable to turn this around. It looks like the job is currently chewing him up. It will eventually spit him out. It's going to be a really bad thing for his reputation if it continues on the trajectory it's on.

5:35Jim Campbell: Ferguson's tits are dry.

5:37Luke Moore: They are. I mean, that's how bad it is. They're broken and sore at the nip. No one wants that. I think he's withdrawn them. Yeah, you might be right. He's put his little flaps up. He's had enough.

5:48Jim Campbell: Buttoned them up. He said, those nipple flaps aren't coming down anymore. Are you wearing one of those data sports bras?

5:54Luke Moore: I am not, and I refuse to explain what I am wearing. so a bit of an easter egg a bit of a confusing easter egg there for listeners of our shows I call back I think yes I don't think it is kind of pointless to to get rid of him really they're obviously going to wait until November because it's cheaper to sack him then I think it'll cost them I'm staying till November

6:17Jim Campbell: I'm staying till November

6:18Luke Moore: it'll cost them 12 million quid to sack him now probably a little bit less than that later so I'm sure that's what they'll do absolutely it really really is but you know it is sorry to sound like Ole Gunnar Solskjaer but it is Manchester United you know they can't at six games into a Premier League season be looking at this situation going this season's already a write-off let's treat it as such there is enough time for somebody better to turn it around and I think if they are looking at Amarim and going you know what we've made a mistake here this hasn't worked out for whatever reason which we don't know they are doing they might have faith with him they might they might kind of stick to it for a bit longer and see what they can get out of him but I think you can't be talking about damage limitation at this point in the season.

6:58Luke Moore: If sacking him and getting someone else in can salvage something and get them at least European football and if you look at that squad on paper that should be so achievable then they're going to have to consider it.

7:10Jim Campbell: Yeah, I mean it's hard talking about Man United because they continue to do all the same shit badly and we have to think of kind of new ways of framing it, I suppose.

7:26Luke Moore: The sheer variation in which Brentford got joy against them at the game of the weekend was unbelievable from every conceivable angle.

7:33Jim Campbell: The first goal didn't even look like it could possibly be a goal, but it somehow was a goal because the defenders were nowhere near Thiago. It's a beautiful finish on the half-volley as well. But I suppose saying that everything's quite repetitive when you talk about them, one thing that has changed, I think, is that I think a while back you could say, Ruben Amorim is a good coach in a really difficult situation and you'd give him sympathy and you'd give him a bit of room and you'd perhaps, you know, perhaps give him a pass actually. But I don't think you can do that now. I don't think, I think that ship has long since sailed, you know, and you're right to say, Marcus, that he's had a full pre-season.

8:19Jim Campbell: He's been given, you know, that front three that played at the, the G Tech community stadium on the weekend. It's a brand new front three. It's like three new train sets to play with, Ruben. You're supposed to be this amazing young coach who plays football in a certain way and you think that's the way to go about it. You've been given the tools that you kind of at least agreed to and it's still astonishingly poor. I mean, it's so poor. and I think he now has to take the blame squarely on his shoulders for what's happening on the pitch. I know we can get into conversations about, I mean Vish was here, he'd probably say these players and that player over there are not suitable to this system and all the rest of it.

9:02Jim Campbell: But the point is that these conversations are quite kind of moot now because what's got to happen is he's either got to play different players or he's got to play a different system. And either way, the decision is with him. and the way they played against Brentford, I mean, I said, I've got this column I started doing this season just to write a bit about football as well. And I did say, I mean, the thing I put up this week, last week, sorry, was that Brentford will beat Man United. They will. I mean, there's absolutely no way they won't beat Man United because as soon as Man United feel under the slightest bit of pressure or they have something go against them, they just cannot deal with it.

9:43Jim Campbell: They crumble. and there's an occasional blind squirrel finding a nut here and there. They're obviously occasionally going to get a win. I mean, it happened with Chelsea. I mean, that was a completely ridiculous game, but it happened. And they came off on the right side of that, despite, as I said before, Casemiro's best efforts.

9:58Luke Moore: Again, the red card was a big part of that.

10:00Jim Campbell: It was, because it was just chaos. So I find it very, very difficult to defend Amarim in any way now. I know that's not the question. The question is, what do they do? I mean the lucky thing for Amarim at this point as we sit here seems to be that the only the only more clueless person in the whole of football in this country appears to be his boss Ratcliffe comes out and says I mean presumably completely unprompted comes out and says we think we can give Ruben the season we think the players he's got he can do better and all the rest of it and he seems to be saying we don't want to change him and that's great news for Ruben Amrim as far as his job's concerned but perhaps, I mean, is his heart really in it himself?

10:46Jim Campbell: I don't really know.

10:47Luke Moore: I think that's a fair point. I mean, if I give an opinion on the situation, I'll just be echoing your thoughts there, Luke, so I won't do that. What I might say is something that I have said previously is I still think there's a chance that he walks and he's the first manager post-Ferguson to walk and I think that if I was advising him and it's easy to do it because, as you said, Jim, you've got the payout, and managers don't really walk these days, do they? They're always sacked because of, we know, financial reasons, and I understand that, but I would say to Ruben Amarim, walk, just go, because if he walks, it's unlikely he would then start taking shots in the media, but his career now, as you mentioned there, Luke, his reputation is beginning to suffer.

11:32Luke Moore: Last season, you could say, well, it's a madhouse, they're in the unmanageable club, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Get that. it's now the focus is now shifting towards Amarim and going, come on, mate, you should be doing better than this. So I think that, I don't think he'll be there that much longer. The question is, is there any point? I think there is a point in changing the manager, whether he decides, whether Amarim decides or the board, because the season is going to be utter shite under Amarim. It's a continuation of last year.

12:04Jim Campbell: I think one of the things that's really interesting to bear in mind thinking about this is it's not just bad. It's not just that Manchester United have historically a bad position, the worst position they've been in certainly since the advent of the Premier League probably since Matt Busby comes in and does what he does going back some way there.

12:27Luke Moore: You don't have to go back to when Dennis Law scores that goal. It wasn't too relegated to relegate Manchester United but those were the really dark days when they were relegated.

12:35Jim Campbell: But it's not just that it's the fact that the real telling thing for me is that every permanent manager that's come in since Mourinho really the club and the coverage of the club has turned the manager into a laughing stock. It's not just that it's been you're not good enough you've not you've not done anywhere near well enough for Man United therefore we're going to criticise you in this way about how you manage but it's the fact that they become like Solskjaer Rangnick Ten Hag and now Amorim.

13:07Luke Moore: Van Gaal you could even say.

13:08Jim Campbell: Van Gaal was obviously before Mourinho. Oh sorry, okay, yeah, yeah. But you could extend, yeah. They become almost like a figure of ridicule. Yeah, absolutely. And that is a real testament to how low the whole thing has gone. Amorim is, and the Amorim example is a fascinating one, right? Because you can see why Ole Gunnar Solskjaer got the piss taken out of him because he was basically like Ferguson's illegitimate son and spend all this time still referring to Ferguson as the gaffer and all this stuff which is a bit cringe and then you've got Rannick but to be fair to him

13:41Luke Moore: it did work for a bit

13:42Jim Campbell: it did work and he was there for a long time with Solskjaer I mean Solskjaer was there for almost three years and then you've got Rannick who is the typical type of football bod that British press will have a field day with because he's got glasses and he talks about different things and he's not a typical

14:00Luke Moore: different type of appointment

14:01Jim Campbell: yeah and British media does not want to be sympathetic towards that Ten Hag he started to get ridiculed partly because of the way some of the things he said. But Amorim Amorim was like the definitive modern, handsome young, cool manager. And you took the juxtaposition of him doing what he did at sporting and then sitting on that bench in the rain at Grimsby, that little tactics board. It's amazing how May or not it's able to be this lightning rod to reduce proud professionals who have had its success to absolute rubble. And that tells you, that is a real symbol of how badly it's gone. And I said before Amorim, it might have even been before I had Ten Ha, I can't remember.

14:49Jim Campbell: I said, it's an unmanageable club. It's become so big and such a behemoth of football that it's completely unmanageable. It's almost like a political system. and things are tearing up and starting again from the beginning, like a revolution, basically. But modern football is never going to allow that to happen. So it might well be something truly dramatic needs to happen for there to be a proper cleansing of what's gone on there. And it could, I don't actually think it is too much of an exaggeration. It's probably a slight exaggeration, but it's not too much of an exaggeration to say that United could flirt quite heavily with relegation this season based on what we've seen so far, based on what we saw last season and the fact that they've brought so many players in at such amounts of money and the whole thing's not improved.

15:42Luke Moore: I think it's going to be like this till the Glazers are gone. I think that's what it looks like now. But the points you make about the way that managers under the scrutiny of that spotlight tend to be made to look quite clownish despite the fact that they're all very capable all very professional people is actually in a weird way obscuring what a bad job Amarim is doing because it feels like more of the same but Ten Hag won two cups you know they and as you say it's like it's not ridiculous at this point to say that they could flirt with relegation based on where they finished last season and based on the form that they've carried into this season and I find that very interesting I think part of the reason that Amarim is struggling is because obviously he's a pretty new manager and he's got this system that he's trying to bring over from Portugal and he's trying to get the players to fit into it and get it so they know it's like the back of their hands and they can all kind of interchange within it which is part of the problem at the moment none of them can do that but it's the managers in the Premier League the managers are too good they know what way he's going to play so they can set up against it and they can they can essentially just fizzle it out that seems to be part of the problem but also a manager sort of translates a lot of themselves into their team, right?

16:58Luke Moore: And you look at his body language, the way he is on the bench, not being able to look at certain things and the situation at Grimsby obviously is an extreme one and he's probably the nadir of that. But Joshua Serksy missed a header at the weekend and the look on his face afterwards, not a straightforward header by any means, but he's essentially missed a chance and he just looked sad and they all do. It looks like an emotionally painful experience to play for Man United at the moment and that I think is coming from him. That transmission is through him.

17:28Jim Campbell: Your point about the other managers being too good is a really interesting one because I kind of had that thought in my mind but the way I had it framed in my mind was just that the other teams are too good. The standard of the Premier League is that it's brutal by which I mean the players are super fit and super fast and if they sniff any sense of weakness whatsoever they'll just go for the jugular and Brentford did that. Brentford were a team who went into a game against an opposition knowing that if they apply any kind of pressure for any kind of sustained amount of time that the United are going to crumble.

18:08Jim Campbell: They're going to crumble. And I think the reason I'm using that as an example and talking about the players rather than the manager is because Brentford are managed by Keith Andrews. He's never had a job before. He's never managed a first team before. and he's able to really beat United quite handily and this is my point after a legendarily good manager's left

18:28Luke Moore: this is why there is a point to changing Amorim at this point of the season and I'll map out what I would do because again I would be echoing you're giving it gigs there no but you're not that far away you're giving it keen no I think with Manchester United when you start listing all the managers they've tried the big hitter. They've tried the weird appointment with Rangnick. They've tried the young up and coming.

18:55Jim Campbell: You're having to go out at Rangnick now? Specs? The weird appointment. What's he done to this other? It was a strange appointment. I was having to go to Austrians yesterday. You're having to go at them today?

19:04Luke Moore: I'm, you know, as a matter of my shoes, naturally dispositioned against Austrian leaders. We've had enough Austrian disruptors forever. No, it was a strange appointment. Anyway, without getting into the details of that.

19:19Jim Campbell: Well, he was already at the club, wasn't he, doing some kind of advisory thing? Was he? Yeah.

19:22Luke Moore: Oh, well, give us a gym for the rest of the season then.

19:25Jim Campbell: Well, I wouldn't be against that. There you go.

19:26Luke Moore: I think we'd all enjoy that. That would be spectacular for the round ball. Yeah. Okay. But you list all the managers. They've tried all these things. And that doesn't mean to say, oh, we've tried the young up-and-coming manager, therefore we shouldn't get a young up-and-coming manager. I understand that. But when you try all these things, it's like, where do we go? And there's nobody I can think of. You think, yeah, give it to that guy. Maybe post-World Cup, he either wins the World Cup or he's out of it. Ancelotti, same could be said for Tuchel. Do you know what I mean? Maybe you're looking at one of those guys.

19:57Luke Moore: But what they should do is I think that they should move Amarim on. I know what reaction this is going to get, but I honestly don't think this is where we are. I know what you're going to say. Interim for the rest of the season, your friend of mine, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Oh, I thought you were going to say Sir Gareth Southgate. No, no, no. Gareth, don't do that for you. Sir Gareth and Sir Jim would get around the round table and thrash something out. Sir Galahad. Honestly, I would get Solskjaer on interim, a bit like when Chelsea got lampotted. You know he's going to do it. You know he's going to be really happy and you can bid him off at the end of the season and everything's going to be okay.

20:33Luke Moore: There's no good thing. And from that moment, start actually doing some proper work and thinking, right, who could bloody manage this club? You've then got half a season or more to have a good look at this and think, right, what is going on? Really kind of Solskjaer searching and then make the appointment ahead of the summer. But you would talk to me, that's what I would do. Do you think Solskjaer could get them European football this season? Because that has to be the aim. Probably not, but he would lift the mood. And the mood has to be lifted. Even if they finish 12th this season, it's still an improvement.

21:06Luke Moore: It's funny you say that

21:07Jim Campbell: because I just get the impression that I don't think they can settle for that

21:11Luke Moore: or even attempt to. No, but when you say settle for that, where are they going to finish? We're going to have to move on, but they're going to be mentioned in this next question.

21:18Jim Campbell: It's funny. Look, I think you're both barking up the wrong tree for different reasons. Go on, then what would you do? My impression is that Oleg and Solskjaer is a bit of a laughing stock.

21:25Luke Moore: Didn't know I was barking up a tree.

21:27Jim Campbell: No, you were talking about European football this season. You're out your fucking head. Yeah, no, I agree.

21:31Luke Moore: But surely an internal aim has to look at that. No, no, I think realistically it's...

21:35Jim Campbell: I've got a lot of internal aims. That's the case. None of them are coming true.

21:38Luke Moore: Is there anything specific you think they should do?

21:40Jim Campbell: I know it sounds like a cop-out answer but it's not. And I've thought about it and I've said this consistently for a year now, I do still firmly hold this opinion because I think that sometimes when it comes to football coverage and we talk about it in such a way that it comes down to a binary choice or a choice of three or four names where you go, which one's going to do this and which one's going to do that? I just don't subscribe to that. My feeling is, maybe I was just sat in a slightly different way to maybe I can articulate it better. They've painted themselves as a club into such a corner that there is no good decision.

22:16Jim Campbell: There's no good move. They have no next move. They're like, they're in checkmate. Yeah, no, I agree. So you saying, oh, they're going to social. I mean, fine.

22:26Luke Moore: No, but that buys him time. But they have to do something.

22:29Jim Campbell: But you say it buys him time, but the whole thing is rotten from top to bottom. Which is why... So you still, you put a new door in a house, right? The house is falling down. Great, you've got a nice new front door.

22:43Luke Moore: Fine, but the Solskjaer thing is basically, I'm using him because you know that everyone knows what they're doing if they get that manager. It's like, right, let's just put a little stopgap in here.

22:57Jim Campbell: I'd put Roy Keane in there ahead of Solskjaer. Well, fine.

22:59Luke Moore: I'd put Roy Keane in there.

23:00Jim Campbell: No, because he wouldn't lift the mood. But it doesn't matter. But it does, though. That's the thing. The mood does. No, nothing matters. You're missing the point. Nothing matters. When it comes to Manchester United, nothing matters. You can't do anything. You are one step away from saying fold the club. It's not my decision. Oh, well, it's your opinion. My opinion is there is no good option.

23:21Luke Moore: It's the glazers. Because you say, you know, the fish rots from the head down, right? I understand all that. Or from the head. But at some point... Depends which way the fish is facing. But you're sort of disregarding the fact that...

23:31Jim Campbell: Let me answer your question directly. If you put Ole Gunnar Solskjaer in that job, nothing will change. Nothing will change. Fine, but it... It's going to lift the mood. What are you going to do with fucking riding on a unicycle juggling? Here we go, everyone. fucking great I used to be friends

23:44Luke Moore: with Alex Ferguson fucking great well done no but the point is Amorim it is what it is right now and if he stays around they genuinely could be in a relegation they would be a relegation anyway no not anyway they will come on getting Nuno in would have been better

23:59Jim Campbell: are you telling me getting Sean Dyche

24:01Luke Moore: would be better than this Sam Allardyce anyone

24:04Jim Campbell: Nuno I'm not giving you Sam Allardyce Nuno Ole Gunnar Solskjaer or Sean Dyche do they move the dial

24:11Luke Moore: Well, Nuno's got a job, so you don't... Do they? No, I don't think they move the dial, but I don't think they end up in a relegation battle. We don't know that... We're speculating heavily about them being in a relegation battle. This ain't the same as last season.

24:22Jim Campbell: Sunderland and Leeds are doing all right.

24:24Luke Moore: Yeah, and so that's my point. So I've just said Solskjaer because everyone knows what's going on, and it then gives them more time to actually think about kind of more future planning of the club, rather than Amarim's going, uh, right, where's the next taxi off the rank? That is my point. I understand what you're saying is the Glazers need to go... they're not going to go. That would, that would, anyway. Coming up after this, which Premier League team should be worried about relegation? No, you're not him!

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27:47Luke Moore: Harry has been in touch on YouTube and has managed to not make any personal scathing comments. Well done, Harry. Should established Premier League teams such as Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, West Ham and Wolves be worried about relegation this season? He's missed one. particularly with the promoted teams looking much stronger.

28:04Jim Campbell: It's a really good question, isn't it?

28:06Luke Moore: I think Villa will be okay. Yeah.

28:08Jim Campbell: I think it's pretty good. I mean, maybe a measure of how much we respect Nottingham Forest these days that they're an established Premier League team. Is this their fourth season in the Premier League?

28:17Luke Moore: I mean, I think the fact that they qualified for Europe, I think. Yeah.

28:21Jim Campbell: Which is an exact example of what can bring its own problems.

28:24Luke Moore: They very much re-established themselves as a Premier League side.

28:27Jim Campbell: Okay. I don't agree with that, but that's fair enough. I think all those teams I mean certainly I mean certainly Wolves I think West Ham we're recording this when they're about to you know embark upon a new journey with a new manager you know so that we'll see what happens there but West Ham are absolutely vulnerable for all the reasons perhaps even some of the reasons you mentioned before the break about ownership and they've run really badly that's going to be the thing

28:51Luke Moore: that's the biggest challenge for them and for Nuno

28:53Jim Campbell: I think Aston Villa no Forrest yeah I think Forrest probably so I think three of those four should absolutely have it on their mind.

29:01Luke Moore: Man United.

29:02Jim Campbell: Yeah, I think Man United as well.

29:03Luke Moore: I do. No, I'm not. That's what I'm saying.

29:06Jim Campbell: But I think to speak specifically to Harry's question, I mean, just break down those clubs. So Aston Villa, I don't think so. I think Aston Villa are too strong, personally. But Forrest, I mean, they've just brought on a new manager who seems to have torn completely to pieces the stuff that's made them good in the first place and whose track record in the Premier League is poor overall. and they've got a very volatile owner who seems to make quite emotionally led decisions. So that's a lot of boxes ticked there. West Ham run appallingly, cycle through managers over and over again. And Wolves...

29:40Luke Moore: Well, they're starting to do that, aren't they? Which is a thing they proudly never did in the past. That's right. Things are getting to the point now it's a bit of churn, yeah.

29:46Jim Campbell: And then Wolves, of course, have started this season very badly in the league. In the league cup, they've been okay. But in the league, they've been very, very poor. A point from six games, Blimey. Yeah.

29:56Luke Moore: Although they got the point by playing the Carabao Cup team in the Premier League, which, yeah.

30:02Jim Campbell: I also worry about Wolves scoring goals as well, which is a big, big factor. Look, I think the tenet, the question here from Harry is that, you know, established Premier League teams, can they, I guess what I'm reading into it is can they get complacent? I think absolutely they can. And of course, a lot of discussion we've had over the last year or two has been about promoter teams finding the gap very big and how they can bridge that gap. Of course, if two teams, and we think Burnley look like they're going to struggle, but say Sunderland and Leeds keep this up, particularly Sunderland, but let's say Leeds do as well, then of course it's necessarily two teams do need to be relegated.

30:34Jim Campbell: And then for you're looking for candidates that aren't Sunderland or Leeds. And these teams that Harry have listed, that Harry has listed, clearly are going to be candidates for that. So I think actually the question in a weird way answers itself. And what these teams are looking to do is of course do what Brighton have done, what Bournemouth have done, to an extent what Fulham have done as well. But I do think, even in like a Fulham's case, if Marco Silva gets his head turned, say, go back to what we talked about earlier, say May or not decide they want Marco Silva, he's going to go. He'll go, won't he?

31:07Jim Campbell: I mean, it's very difficult for a manager to turn that down despite the situation. Fulham then look vulnerable instantly, I think.

31:13Luke Moore: Yeah, I mean, yeah. Don't they? No, I think the Fulham team would be too good to be relegated, personally. Right, okay. I understand the point you're making that Marco Silva is very, very crucial. And in fact...

31:22Jim Campbell: It's built more around Silva than it is a system like Brighton or Brentford is.

31:25Luke Moore: Yeah, and despite me wanting... being a Fulham fan, loving Marcus Silva and wanting him to stay, actually, if Ambram goes, I would get Silva. That would be the guy I would want. All that Solskjaer stuff, you know. But anyway, we moved on from that. So yes, I think that the complacency, you saw it from last season where you knew that those three teams were going to get relegated. So that's why West Ham just drifted under Potter, Manchester United, Spurs. You know, it was crazy. The strong suggestion so far this season is that's not happening, lads. That's not what's going on. All this chat about, well, it's a closed shop, we sincerely hope, and the early signs are good, that that's not going to happen this season.

32:04Luke Moore: So therefore, the old cliche of, well, you're never too big to go down, could suddenly come back into play. And Leeds United know that themselves, of course. A huge club and have been in the championship for so many years. So I think the league so far looks a lot healthier than it did. and I wonder if we'll see the relegation panic come back in because, again, last year that just wasn't there. It was disgraceful the way that Spurs and Ange were basically phoning in the Premier League in the last good few months of it. Suddenly the realisation of, I don't give a damn if you're West Ham or you're Man United or whoever, you can go down.

32:51Luke Moore: Suddenly teams will be like, shit, this is a fight and there will be a panic. Sean Dyer should be going, I can help anybody out here. The thing with those panics as well is that it leads to really, really poorly thought out acquisitions in January. Yes. Which sometimes make those things worse. So that's another thing to keep an eye on. I do think Nuno Espirito Santo will probably strengthen West Ham enough just in a sort of basic sense that they'll be okay. Wolves, I would think, are absolutely in for a scrap. and I do think Forrest under Ange because as we've discussed it's not just the way Spurs approached the league last season but it is the way he does seem to have ripped up everything that was good about them with a squad that was still kind of adjusting to that as well but I think that team's too good yeah there's a lot of quality in it I understand I'm saying too bad I don't mean too big as in if it really is suddenly like crap we need to make a decision I don't think they will go down but I can foresee a situation where we're having a serious conversation about

33:50Jim Campbell: Two minutes ago, you were talking about the panic setting in.

33:52Luke Moore: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

33:52Jim Campbell: Would you want Maranakis on the wheel, at the wheel for that?

33:56Luke Moore: Any situation, Maranakis at the wheel, no.

33:58Jim Campbell: Exactly. So things can go south, can't they?

34:00Luke Moore: Yeah, fair, fair.

34:01Jim Campbell: And I think if you look at what's happened with Wolves, well, they gave Pereira a new contract a couple of weeks ago. So obviously they want to invest in him. Maybe they're not worried about just a bit of a tricky start and they can turn it around. It's going to be a far better Premier League season, I think, in that way, because of the reasons you've said. Exactly.

34:17Luke Moore: And also as well, in a weird way, because of last season and the season before last, you might argue that the pressure's off those teams, the promoted sides. Again, that's not to disrespect them because clearly Leeds United are not going to go at the end of the season. Oh, well, that's another season in the championship. Oh, but it's the low expectations, right? But it's the low expectation. And also, if they've got a couple of teams that were in the division last year or last season, if they've got them panicking going, they're relishing it. And it's a different mood. it's not kind of oh we're clinging on it's like we've got we've got wolves going on we've got whoever it is so I think that yeah the mood could be very different you know post Christmas in the Premier League alright what about this

34:59Jim Campbell: from James on Blue Sky he says hi guys I'm a little late to the party but in response to what would you steal from a football ground on the mailbag fairly recently I present to you this in August 2019 Legia fans pulled off one of the funniest football pranks I've seen by unveiling a banner of Pope John Paul II that I brought. Personally, I would love to nick that Pope banner and he included the photo of it which is absolutely fantastic. Underneath it, it just says we're not afraid as well. It's like a lovely touch. So, yeah, is there anything you guys, I actually, I should probably point out that I was at Paul Walsh's testimonial at Fratton Park.

35:37Jim Campbell: lovely. Brilliant player for Portsmouth. I had a testimony at Fratton Park and Paul Gascoigne played and a lot of other people. Chris Evans played, I think, It's very 90. Anyway, I actually took a bit of turf. Took a bit of turf. Still got it? Nah, it's long since gone. I've moved house about four times since then.

35:54Luke Moore: Staying with the, sort of the vibe of the Legu fans, would you, would you nick the picture of Her Majesty in the Ibrox High present room? That would be a lovely time. Well, it could be His Majesty up there. I'm sure it is. I don't know. The Anfield side. Oh. Where's your luck gone now?

36:11Jim Campbell: That would be absolutely outrageous to do that. To hear Roy Keane and Ian Wright

36:14Luke Moore: were arguing about that. Ray and Wright's going yeah of course I touched the sign you know it's Aaron Fiddle and Rookies just like obviously not having it yeah of course he's not why would you say who cares I think you'd be found quite quickly where you're going to display it oh yeah it's only going to be

36:28Jim Campbell: valuable to kind of black market gangs really you can't move that on

36:33Luke Moore: yeah you need someone who's big in the world of art theft to move that on I don't know how you contact those people to know what that is also as well as we found out with recent sort of FBI stuff and whatnot Liverpool fans are everywhere. They are. Because you'll never sell a loan. No, you won't. You won't. All right, coming up after this, is Sir Bruce... I can't believe we're doing this in the mail. Is Sir Bruce full-thigh? Who? Is Brucey still with us?

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38:31Luke Moore: I've got the next question, everybody. It's from Fortisloe on Discord. Where should Graham Potter go next? To me, it seems like he should avoid the British leagues for a while.

38:41Jim Campbell: My instinctive reaction to this question was to a lovely little spa hotel. Yeah. Just for a week or two just to unwind and relax because it's been quite brutal for him, hasn't it? It has. The internet's insulted him endlessly over the last couple of weeks.

38:54Luke Moore: Cuba, they don't have much internet there. There you go. Yeah. There you go. Absolutely have a holiday. I think in a professional sense, obviously it depends what he wants, but I actually think possibly a good championship team when a vacancy becomes available would be a good move for him because the games come thick and fast and we hear about Potter a lot and perhaps it's unfair to keep, you know, tarring him with this idea that he needs a decent amount of time for his squads to gel and his tactics to take shape. And when you play as many games as you do in the championship, sort of, you know, necessity dictates that that's surely going to gel a bit quicker and he's not going to get another Premier League job, but he may well have, you know, what it takes to get a team promoted into the Premier League and then re-establish himself there.

39:39Jim Campbell: So I think one of the most underrated skills for a top manager, and it's not talked about enough in my view, is their ability to make good decisions about their employment. Is their ability to weigh things up and say, is this the right move for me or not? I mean, we touch on it slightly, we say like a Marco Silva. Marco Silva is going to find it very difficult. I mean, we're linking him with Man Utd, I don't know why, but he would find it very difficult to turn down Man Utd. and we understand why that is. And sometimes managers, I mean, Silver did it himself really with Everton, didn't he? He kind of, it didn't work out for him and he's found a place now at Fulham.

40:13Luke Moore: Because he left Watford and he was doing all right there.

40:15Jim Campbell: That's right. And you are, it's incumbent upon you as a manager to be able to say, right, this is what I want to do. This is an environment where I'm going to be given the chance to do it and so I'm going to take the job or not. Now, Potter, Potter, keep calling him that like a Draco Malfoy. Graham Potter goes from Ostersund where he just develops this amazing reputation overseas and takes the Swansea job. They love him at Swansea. He does a season there. He's pretty good. They offer him a really banging new contract and he turns it down because he wants to go to Brighton. Does brilliantly at Brighton.

40:47Jim Campbell: And then it starts to become tricky for him because he gets put in that position that a lot of up-and-coming managers are in where he can't turn down Chelsea. There's prestige, there's money, the players he's going to work with and all the rest of it and it just chews him up and it spits him out. right? And he takes almost two years out of the game so he's got a lot of time to think about it. I'm just giving people a potted history in case they're not as into this as we are because they're not as sad as us.

41:14Luke Moore: And he was linked with England, Joe.

41:15Jim Campbell: He was linked with lots of places.

41:16Luke Moore: Ajax and AC Milan apparently made him offers or were talking to him.

41:20Jim Campbell: So he takes almost two years to decide he's going to go into an absolute basket case in January at West Ham and again is chewed up and spat out again. What he needs to do is take a step back, find out what he wants out of this as you've already touched on and the next job he takes needs to be something that's going to give him the room to do what he wants to do. Because it wasn't just that he did so well at Brighton and got that reputation. It was the way they played. It was how they got some big scalps against some big teams. It was, he just became the guy. And you had people like Guardiola talking about how great he was and all the rest of it.

41:51Jim Campbell: And so next time he gets an opportunity, it's not going to be at a level of a Chelsea or even a West Ham probably. And as Jim, you said, that could be a championship thing. But the championship can be just as volatile if not more so than the Premier League just not as high profile they turn over managers much quicker in the Football League than they do in the Premier League a lot of the time so whatever needs to happen is he needs to make the right decision that he didn't make having almost two years to make it last time because he is clearly a great coach he seems like a good dude as well but he is fucking shit at picking jobs and he needs to address that as quickly as possible

42:23Luke Moore: well yeah I mean yeah Frank Lampard would be another one who he was always going to take the Chelsea job he was chewed up spat out about that Everton was a funny he turned down Norwich City because they were doomed in the Premier League so fair play. Now look at him at Coventry, seems to be doing right there so far seven games in the season, they're second. So if that's anything to go by I get what you're saying about the Championship gym, however if he was to go to a Championship side and which jobs are available, which jobs could come up, if you then don't do very well there, the idea of you managing a big side in England kind of goes out the window.

42:56Luke Moore: Sort of gamble this of course. Does he get offers from abroad? Does he think, you know what if I go abroad I can refresh but then that comes with other challenges you know he's done it before he has done it before I mean apparently he learnt Spanish when he was you know taking a bit of time out of the game which suggests maybe there's some sort of intention there South America yeah but yeah I think that managers also worry that the Premier League is obviously such an attractive and wealthy beast that so many people want to be there your worry is if you go abroad can you make it then can you get back into it I think also

43:28Jim Campbell: you know

43:28Luke Moore: he's got to be very careful as Luke says.

43:30Jim Campbell: Also, you know, I'm putting it all on him about this way he chooses jobs and all the rest of it. I don't doubt for one second that people at West Ham promised him the moon on the stick and it probably didn't quite turn out to be like that. And I think he was in a very volatile situation because of the way West Ham fans can be as well. But I just can't stress it enough. Like, he clearly is, what is he now? He's like 50, I think, now. So he's had a bit of time as a coach and found out a bit about what he's all about, how he wants to play and all the rest of it. He just needs to take the time to focus on really doing the due diligence he needs to do on the job he takes next.

44:04Jim Campbell: If he wants to get back into football, of course. I think the problem now is he's not going to have the time that he had post-Chelsea because at Chelsea, the way they are, it's not really held against you as a manager. So you can do two years and your reputation grows in absence. If you bomb out of West Ham in quite unceremonious fashion, you're probably going to get forgotten about a lot quicker.

44:24Luke Moore: But I wonder though, when we're talking about him taking a bit of time out, again, that's what he did post-Chelsea. Now, I know that failure is often the best way to find out a bit more about yourself and to grow and to think, what do I want? So I wonder if he might actually be keen to get back a bit quicker now. He thinks, yeah, that was a bit poor. Right, I'm a bit sharper now. Sharpens the focus, doesn't it? If you try something, it doesn't quite work out. I mean, he might be a sort of kind of break glass for emergency manager for anyone who finds himself in a relegation battle this season.

44:54Luke Moore: You don't want that. No, you don't. You should want a mark on that show. No, I don't think he would. But he's not really got much pedigree for that, has he? So I don't think that's going to be the case. Yeah, but that's the point with these appointments though, isn't it? It's an act of desperation. I want to see him back soon, it would be my take, because I think that there's a coach in there. We've seen enough of that. I think Chelsea and West Ham, yeah. This next job though, if again it goes badly, then you might be feeding off scraps after that. So I hope he's back soon. It'd be interesting to see what level of appointment that he could get abroad after this the links with AC Milan and Ajax are massive right and his reputation has probably taken a hit on that a year ago he might still be able to get a decent level abroad and that would be it would be nice to have an English coach working abroad in circumstances like that for a big side there's plenty of English coaches working abroad like the one in the UAE third tier think of the memes think of the memes ok before we go Joel has been in touch on Instagram Joel has decided to share with us the following story which is headlined Bruce Forsyth's ghost is haunting famous West End theatre where he's buried

46:01Jim Campbell: this is right in our Venn diagram

46:02Luke Moore: the football rebel mailbag everybody absolutely yeah

46:05Jim Campbell: well listen this is the Palladium right

46:07Luke Moore: it is the Palladium and we played the Palladium we did

46:09Jim Campbell: and we sprinkled Bruce's ashes everywhere

46:11Luke Moore: and there was no

46:12Jim Campbell: there was no haunting that I experienced

46:14Luke Moore: well the ashes aren't they're very much in a what would be in a in an hour yeah

46:18Jim Campbell: but Pete smashed them up at the end dressed as Richard Keyes yeah that happened Palladium got really They charged us loads of money.

46:26Luke Moore: Why are you so resistant to this, Marcus? Because the urn actually stayed in one piece. I mean, some suggest it was actually a paper masher urn that we'd made. But whatever the truth is, the urn actually stayed in one piece.

46:38Jim Campbell: Right, okay. All I'm saying is we didn't experience a haunting when we were there on the stage. No, no.

46:42Luke Moore: I think he was probably terrified. We were, I'm haunt on fire. I think he was like, I'm staying in my urn. Yeah. So a paranormal specialist believes that she heard his voice.

46:53Jim Campbell: Paranormal specialist, Jim.

46:54Luke Moore: could be any one of us

46:55Jim Campbell: you can instantly decide now if you want to be a paranormal absolutely no qualification needed do what you want

47:00Luke Moore: absolutely fucking psychic Sally or just Sally apparently a paranormal specialist believes she heard his voice during a recent visit to the London Palladium

47:11Jim Campbell: it sounded a bit like this hide in his foe it's a fee yeah there we go sorry

47:15Luke Moore: so the singer who goes by the name Brocard said she was interviewing two of the characters from a play Pendulet and Piff the Magic Dragon who were both like quite well respected magicians when she sensed a presence in the room, as much as magicians are respected. I was trying to keep my composure amidst the chaos of two unruly magic dragons, but I kept getting distracted by the words, nice to see you. At first I dismissed it, then came the unmistakable second half, to see you nice. There we go. There it is. Followed by mischievous laughter. That's when I knew Sir Bruce Forsyth was in the room.

47:50Luke Moore: It's quite hard to say. this woman once claimed to have married and subsequently divorced a ghost

47:55Jim Campbell: so maybe she's looking for Bruce to be her next husband isn't it yeah

48:00Luke Moore: apparently she was in an episode of First Dates that makes perfect sense there's a strange ecosystem of these people who are sort of otherwise unemployable I know we're not meant to talk about previous boyfriends and girlfriends and stuff I think there's no previous lives then well I mean sadly yourself yeah I was once married oh okay can you tell me what does he look like? I'm not really too sure. Is he in the room with us now? Might be.

48:29Luke Moore: I was going to say how do you divorce a ghost but I presume it's as simple as marrying a ghost. It takes time I think to get divorced doesn't it?

48:35Jim Campbell: I'm disappointed that we didn't get haunted ourselves when we were at the plane. We did our very best to raise Bruce's spirit from the dead and it didn't happen. Maybe he doesn't respect us as entertainers.

48:46Luke Moore: That's enormously possible.

48:47Jim Campbell: I think it's probable. Highly probable.

48:49Luke Moore: Yeah, I would say that is probably one of the reasons. And I do think we had him running scared. Yeah.

48:54Jim Campbell: You see Pete in his pants and go, I'm not having any of that. No chance, not having any of that.

48:57Luke Moore: It does seem like every single person who plays at the Palladium does massively disrespect the memory of Sir Bruce Forsyth in some way. Mainly us. Yeah. Well, I mean, Elvis. And Brocard. True. Well, no, but I think she's trying to play into it. I mean, Elvis Costello was on the night after. While I agree that she's trying to, I don't think she's managing to. Yeah, well, her intention and our intention, I think we're a bit different. But Elvis Costello played the night after us at the play.

49:23Jim Campbell: And the encore was him and Brucey.

49:24Luke Moore: Yeah, we go.

49:25Jim Campbell: Yeah. Brucey did a little tap dance while Elvis was doing Oliver's Army. A little tap dance in the background. Here they are. They're so appealing. Come on, dollies, do your dealing.

49:34Luke Moore: Ah, dear. You see, if you're thinking, why on earth are they talking about this on the mailbag? Joel got in touch. He did. You can get in touch. There's so many different avenues.

49:40Jim Campbell: I would have the ghost as Bruce Forsyth as an ex-Mayor United manager. could he I mean could he do worse after they score another goal I know one you say it's two goals it's two goals it's been brilliant

49:56Luke Moore: how would you sum up that performance today oh what bad luck thanks for listening to the Football Rumble part of the Acast Red Network Jim and I are back tomorrow alongside Vish where we'll be reacting to tonight's Champions League action please do send us your responses opinions and questions for next week's mailbag and subscribe on YouTube or wherever you've got your podcasts and remember tonight's Champions League action does involve Jose Mourinho back at the bridge

50:20Jim Campbell: get in touch if you've ever seen a ghost yeah

50:22Luke Moore: football ghost if you've married yeah married and or divorced seen married or divorced the ghost and if you've ever seen anyone else at the London Palladium disrespect Bruce Forsyth in the same level and if you're currently

50:34Jim Campbell: unemployed and fancy doing the Maynard job might as well shoot your shot you're never going to get a better chance to be Maynard manager than right now get your CV in order

50:51Marcus Speller: The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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