Mailbag: What’s going on at Newcastle United?

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4:10Luke Moore: Hello everybody, welcome to the Football Ramble Mailbag Newcastle United, Manchester United and the Traitors are the orders of the day It's Tuesday 20th of October, I'm Marcus Speller I'm Luke Moore And I'm Jim Campbell

4:34Luke Moore: Hello everybody, good to have you with us on a terrific Tuesday, if I may say, here at the Football Ramble. Luke Moore and Jim Campbell are looking twinkly-eyed, and so am I, David. Because I am, and I always have been, a traitor. A traitor. Yes. Yes! ladies and gentlemen we got him Marcus has discovered Traitors by the way like literally the other day yes so he's on board now no sooner you haven't discovered it yet still haven't watched it no sooner have I discovered it we've got a Traitors style question themed question of course and if you want to get in a question about any old bollocks then do message us on xbluesky or Instagram at footballramble comment on YouTube or email us show at footballramble.com and of course friends of the Ramble get priority patreon.com forward slash footballramble is where you can do it.

5:21Luke Moore: Or click the Join button on YouTube. Don't get disheartened if your question isn't read out, though, because we now basically just use AI for all the questions. Yes. And the answers. And the presenting. Absolutely. I thought you'd improved. Ah, naughty. Naughty. This is the best of Marcus Christopher Speller right here. Yeah, it won't be long. No. It shouldn't be. Short run time. I know what I was going to say. Eight minute show. Do you give me eight minutes? That's what you said to me yesterday. AI didn't give me eight minutes. when we're in bed together. Deep completions. Deep completions everywhere.

5:54All over the gaff.

5:55Luke Moore: All over the gaff. Yeah. And up the wall. Now. Proper pair of fucking Capri Suns on me boat race. It's taken a turn already, isn't it? We're a proper pair of little digestives, aren't we, Martin? It's taken over. It's running wild. It's glitching. It is glitching. He's having a dirty little glitch. All right. Carl Fraser on Instagram. Enough of the bollocks. He asked us this question. where did the wind from Newcastle's sails go? Ooh did it go down the tine Jim? I guess that makes sense probably the nearest exit isn't it? or the sea yeah one leading into the other indeed that's a great point yeah so I think that that's possibly the idea that Newcastle are completely kind of windless is maybe a little bit premature perhaps because I think early season form is always unpredictable anyway.

6:49Luke Moore: But this season, I think that's particularly the case with so many new managers coming in and Newcastle themselves obviously have had a lot of change as well. So I think, you know, this season that's more the case than usual. I think it's possible that they caught Liverpool a bit cold on the opening day. They've got Areola coming in, a lot of new players coming in as well and the squad hadn't quite gelled even from last season. They beat Spurs at the Tottenham Stadium, but Spurs are their own worst nightmare at home. They're basically managed by Freddy Krueger at home, aren't they? You can get in their heads very, very quickly, right?

7:29Luke Moore: So I think, actually, Newcastle had a couple of really, really good results that were perhaps not quite indicative of the size of the job that Matthias Jaissler has to do. Bedding in new players, the fact they lost their captain, Sandro Tonali Anthony Gordon even Nick Valtemander right who's become a little bit of a kind of problem for the Bruno Gimeraj yeah well their captain yes oh I thought you were saying I thought you were going their captain Sandro Tonali no no no okay I assumed knowledge of people there yeah you shouldn't have especially not around this table bloody hell let's talk about Matt Target they lost him as well yeah they lost Matt Target Emil Kraft Trips if we're going to do that Trips a lot of experience in Trips yeah but I was going to say even Nick Valtemander He started the season very well.

8:17Luke Moore: Hal decided he didn't want to use him in the same way. Even that option has gone. They're repurposing so much stuff. I think actually the reality here is that they started in a way that's a bit of a bonus. It was a bit of a false storm, do you think? Yeah. One of the things that was quite eye-catching during their first, what is it, two or three performances of the season was Nico Gonzalez pinging the ball out to new signing Dedic. Yes. Who had started well, to be fair. Yeah. And then he would sort of find Antelio Lange or somebody. I mean, Lange has been injured for a while. Dedic himself, I think, was he injured?

8:56Luke Moore: He certainly was out of the team a little bit, but he's not been starting, I think, the last game. I think he was on the bench. And obviously, you're going to need more, you know, more tactics than that. But that was something that people went, oh, okay, there's a little thing there. Well, two of those players have not featured for those reasons. So that sort of avenue of joy that Newcastle United were getting early on has been taken away from them. But I do think, though, yes, they look a bit dodgy at the back, to say the least. Dan Byrne coming back, you would think, would give them a little bit more something.

9:27Luke Moore: We used to plan up front now. Well, at times, at times. That is the sort of thing that will damn you if it doesn't go well, isn't it? Thomas Tuchel got away with it. Tell you what. Yeah, maybe that was the... Less said about that, the better. but it's up front for me when Newcastle they just they haven't they don't know what they're doing so they look confused up front they do very they look very confused up front so I think you know if you go back to the start of the season new manager comes in he's highly rated you know he's had an interesting career as a manager so far but he has got quite highly rated Brassel would rave about him he was in Saudi at the time yeah and he won but he won back to back Champions Leagues there so Brendan Rodgers is also in Saudi not relevant to the conversation we're having but I appreciate you mentioning reminding me that at least you definitely have been replaced by an AI haven't you?

10:11that's what an AI Marcus would say but then their summer is almost typified by the not just the players they've lost as Jim's mentioned but the players they went for and didn't get so they end up getting some young players in some players for the future they kind of build in that way and then Yaisler comes in and I kind of made the point in the summer that you know actually if he channels this properly he could almost do like Yaisler I mean he could almost do like a new broom type thing and say like All these players are gone now. All these big characters, they've gone now. So we're starting again.

10:41It's going to be a fresh start. And we're going to do it our way. And all those people out there, they're underestimating you because you lost all these players. We didn't get all these players. But here's what we have got. And let's show them kind of thing. What seems to have happened is, from what I can see, is a very confused team going forward. A very kind of predictable, almost like long ball team going forward. And then they've also got forward players that seem to be either unavailable or players who are basically playing out of position. And we talked about Fernandes Pardo wanting to play as a strike and all the rest of it.

11:12He's a wide player. You can see it all day long. Wiss is playing deeper because of that. Wiss will be better off playing further forward. Dedic can provide you with more width on the other side. He's a very high, kind of right-sided fullback, but he plays a very attacking way. And then I would add, over the top of that, I think Jaisa looks like he might be a bit of an oddball. Some of the questions, some of the answers. Did you guys hear the answer he gave to Five Live after he played Dan Byrne up front at the weekend

11:44Luke Moore: I did but remind the listeners so he said when the Five Live interviewer asked him about it and said the fans were kind of I can't exactly the fans were confused or against it or whatever he said I think the fans all understood at least the smart ones did and it's like okay if you're Mikel Arteta you might get away with that because you've won the Premier League you've got a few years under your belt to me that if that's the start of something um if that's the smart if that's the start of something to come if you look at it in context four players playing out position dan burn playing way up front for a weird reason and playing like pumping long balls up and then saying that afterwards it sounds desperate well it does and then we're only seven games in so to me it would be a combination of those things i would say yeah no i agree particularly with the forward line you can sometimes forgive a manager if, as you say, new players and you're trying to figure stuff out and you're looking at combos and you can only really truly know that when you have the players on the pitch in the actual game setting.

12:44Luke Moore: Training is obviously somewhat indicative but it's on match day where you do that and sometimes you do have to do a bit of trial and error or whatever. This does seem like it's very disjointed and to throw into the mix that Wisser, the guy who you think, right, get some goals, he's not scoring no he's not two goals in 13 months yeah big chance the other day as well that he really really should have done better with I think it was Harvey Barnes he was screaming at him to lay it off to him and he just shanked it wide I think also the change in style from Eddie Howe's Newcastle to what Matthias Jaistler seems to be trying to do is pretty stark isn't it they were very very physical before and they get the kind of midfield that they had before yeah absolutely they had so much power in there so much physicality with obviously the kind of craft to go with it.

13:32Luke Moore: But I mean, the Leeds game is perhaps a little bit unfair to take in isolation. It's not, because you use the commentary game as well. Well, I suppose so. But I mean, the way that they were kind of bullied by Leeds was amazing to me to see Newcastle like kind of treated like that by any team when we're sort of so close to the Eddie Howe era. And yeah, the commentary game's the same sort of thing, isn't it? So I think that is such a stark change for the players who are already there as well. Presumably, there is a lot of different messaging going on. And this is the absolute kind of definition of a transitional season for a team, isn't it?

14:08I also, you go back to the transfer thing. They wanted Manzambi and they wanted Munoz, didn't they? And Villa get Manzambi and Liverpool basically bid more money to get Munoz. And the players that Newcastle signed instead, they signed that Toure guy for 50 million who's not started the game. and they signed Aladji Bamba, who's hardly played. And that was the same money they were going to pay for those other two players. So it's early days still. But sometimes you want to go back to what Jim said yesterday about this idea that Iriola at Bournemouth, new ideas, they had to be patient. They went nine games and it was about winning the game.

14:45People were raging about it, talking about how it's ridiculous they'd replaced Gary O 'Neill and all this kind of stuff. And then it goes and all of a sudden you don't look back. and I suppose there is a chance with Newcastle with their new manager and one or two other clubs we mentioned yesterday with their manager, whether it's Piers Sarge or whoever, that it could go right. But I don't like it when I see a manager new to the league who doesn't seem to fully grasp the demands of not just the football, but the kind of attention and exposure and kind of scrutiny and they start to say weird things this early on.

15:22Luke Moore: Well, that leads us on to the next question involving Newcastle United. Van de Graam tagged on to that one from Carl Fraser. Does Matthias Geisler look more like a cheap magician or a failed snooker player? I mean, if it's a choice between the two, it has to be a cheap magician, doesn't it? One of the sort of modern mentalist types, kind of Derren Brownie. I think failed snooker player to me suggests someone who's right on the edge, someone living in their car. There was a big... There was a bit... He does look a bit like a snooker player. There's not a great pedigree of German snooker players around, so that might undermine it a bit.

15:58But I've said this before over the years, like back in the day, there was a massive inflection point for magicians where they had to stop being... They used to be like Paul Daniels. Oh, lovely. Yeah, but then I think people then thought they were paedophiles. Yes. So then they became really urban. So David Blaine. Darnabo, David Blaine well Blaine was what's that other guy Chris Angel yeah that guy

16:24Luke Moore: Blaine was before actually that crop I think that crop brought it back because Blaine was a bit like you know this is all it was a way too it was just wank really nice it was just bollocks he's getting cheeseburgers thrown at him and stuff good flown at him yeah flung yeah no it was it was when he was in that he was suspended in that box and there was somebody who bought like a remote control helicopter and hung a cheeseburger off it and flew it around his box I stand corrected I remember it all it's a great example of the difference between British and American culture it puts me in mind of the same energy so basically he did all these stunts in the US that everyone thought was amazing in the UK everyone just either was indifferent or thought what the fuck are you doing it's like that story that girl told who Scottish girl who moved to New York as she became into the New York lifestyle she was telling this story on her Instagram this was years ago and she said oh yeah I started to wear really nice New York clothes and I had this beret that I used to wear.

17:19And they used to cut around New York going to work. And they used to get compliments on this beret all the time, all these New Yorkers. And I went back to Glasgow to visit my family over Christmas. And the first thing I heard when I stepped out the taxi at Glasgow Airport was, Bonjour, dickhead. And oh, bonjour, dickhead. And that's the difference between British and American culture. There we go.

17:39Luke Moore: There we go. I hope that answers the question. Moved us on neatly to Redhead Redemption on YouTube. Asking this, assuming there is no change in ownership, When is the earliest you see Manchester United seriously competing for or winning the Premier League? It's a great question. And if this isn't a question for AI markers, I don't know what is, because there is so much data you can train this on. You can pick a mailbag from any time in the last four or five years, and you might get a question about this. It's a great question, because I do not know, is the honest answer. If it's compete, then they came third last season.

18:17They weren't competing really though. They came second in 2021. They came second in 2018. They actually came third in 2023 as well.

18:25Luke Moore: But they're not competing to winning the league. You have to look at the squad. What can they do to improve it in the next few years? Because Bruno Fernandes is not going to be around forever. And look at the rest of the squad. Where do they need to seriously improve to get up to speed? and also there's the small question of the manager. I don't think the managers they've had recently have had the chops to compete for... They would have won the league in 2018 if Man City weren't cheating. A long time ago now, though. I was going to say, it's a long time ago. Does that help you answer the question?

18:57Well, it puts into context, I think, what could have happened.

19:02Luke Moore: Yeah. So, I mean, it depends on how you want to interpret the question. To me, I interpret the question as, you know, this has been a real problem since the Glazers took over or this has been a real problem since Ferguson left. Well, Ferguson left because obviously won the league when Ferguson left. But if they won the league in 2018, everything could be totally different. Yeah, but they didn't though. Because someone else cheated. Fine, so I'm asking you how... So they were competing in 2018. Can we agree with that? Well, okay, sure. I don't think that helps answer the question though. My answer to the question would be is the earliest when they can seriously compete for or win the league.

19:35Luke Moore: Right. So what is the lie of the land at the moment in the Premier League? Arsenal are... Well, that's a separate question, isn't it? Well, but I think you can bring it in because Arsenal are obviously... I think we know now what we're going to get this season from Mikel Arteta's Arsenal. It'll be similar to what they did last season. And I think that certainly could be enough to win the league again. I don't think they are similar to last season, really. Okay. Do you? They're not very good at set pieces. No, but they are capable of grinding out wins in a similar way. It's a grind... Which I think is what Marcus is referring to.

20:09Luke Moore: Yeah, it's very bump and grindy. Oh, wow, now you brought me back on board.

20:15Luke Moore: So, there's no team that is particularly impressive. We're not talking about, in full flow, and we understand why they got there now, but full flow Pep Guardiola's Man City. They won seven from seven this season. Fine, but... It's a better start than any start Guardiola's had. Yeah, but I think that if we were talking about peak Pep Guardiola, that was the team you had to kind of overhaul to win the league. I think Man United, I mean, you could go as long as 10 years or more. Whereas right now, what would they have to do? They'd need to get a manager who's at the races. And looking at the squad, where do they need to improve?

20:51Luke Moore: I think they need to improve a fair bit to get up to the squads of Man City and Arsenal's level. What's weird, Marcus, is that Man United seem stuck in this strange holding pattern where no matter how much money they spend on players, which is a lot, they always are in a position where they need to improve. Yeah, I agree. It's really weird. But it is odd. I think it's part of their kind of diminished status, isn't it? They still overpay for players. I think they probably pay higher wages than some of those players deserve. They're very rarely getting sort of their top targets. If a really top player is on the market, they don't often go there.

21:29Luke Moore: So they've got this like, they are kind of shopping from a slightly lower shelf than the real elite. and that's what they're judged by, right? And that's what they're trying to push into. But every player they get seems to be dragged down to them rather than drag the club up. Well, no, but I wonder though, is that not a symptom of the fact that, let's take a player like Matthijs De Ligt, right? He's a good player, experienced player. Bayern were happy to let him go in a way that they certainly wouldn't be with some of their more kind of headline players. And it feels like, okay, they've got a top player here because they've got a guy coming in from Bayern Munich.

22:01Luke Moore: But actually, the level is just a bit below what the true kind of top level you need to be in the Premier League in particular is. Well, I would liken it stuck with that profile a lot. I would liken it to they've brought in Brian Mbumo who was, you know, very highly rated, obviously scored loads of goals at Brentford. I thought he might go to Liverpool and replace Salah. Yeah. That's what I was thinking for Brian Mbumo. And he's done pretty well for Man United to be fair to me. He's done okay. Mateus Cunha, another one, right? Let's use a Liverpool comparison. When those two players they're doing what they do, they get signed by Manchester United you think right are they going to kick on when Liverpool signed Sadio Mane from Southampton how Mane took his game to a different level you can say the same about Semenyo at City but why did he do that because he goes into a team who know what they're doing under Jurgen Klopp who are going places who have a system who have a manager who's got the the club and the league by the bollocks and he knows what they're doing this is how you're going to play these are the players around you we have put in an enormous effort the effort Liverpool and everybody behind the scenes and those making the signings and the coaching staff, the technical directors, they had to be on it so much, which is they are the team who should be most aggrieved by all this Man City stuff because they've only got one Premier League title.

23:16Luke Moore: A precious one and they still won it, but they should have had more, really. So the effort that whole club had to go into. Well, they got kind of two, didn't they? If you count slot as well. Yeah, okay. Well, I was talking about under Klopp. They reached three European Champions League finals as well. Okay, they won one of them. that, you know, it's such a holistic approach at a club like Liverpool. Everybody needs to be on the same page. Everybody needs to be doing it and everybody needs, you know, like I say, but you need someone at the helm and Jurgen Klopp, there's few finer than him. Compare that to Brian and Bumo, say, we'll take him or Matthias Cunha going into Manchester United, totally different.

23:51Luke Moore: It's all over the place and they can sign these players and they will improve the team, as you say, and Bumo's done okay. You know, he scored against Leeds on the weekend, but it's still, it's a mess and to turn it around, how long did it take Mikel Arteta to win the league for Arsenal again Arsenal were a bit of a mess they needed so much going on there to turn that ship around and set sail for Premier League title it's such an almighty effort I think the biggest the best example you can use about how there's just no culture of excellence at Man United is kind of an extension of your point is that when was the last time they actually improved a player they signed yeah but that's a great it's like impossible to name one you go for the last four or five transfer windows now I was literally trying to find one while you were looking there while you're talking there like you go all the way back to sort of 23, 24 when they signed Mount, Hoyland, Onana Amrabat as well they signed these players are like nowhere now but look also as well Yuri Tielemans we know he's a good player and yes again it could come good for him at Man United it could, it could, it could it should, it would when he leaves Aston Villa they've just won the Europa League now I know Villa were you know in the Champions League and they didn't quite get there but again for the club the size of the club of Villa they're an enormous club but they're not the same level as Manchester United very few clubs are around the world he comes from a team who by and large kind of know what they're doing he knows what his job is he knows what his teammates yes they've sold a few players and they bring a few players in but he's kind of comfortable he's earned his move to say Manchester United if you like then he goes there and he's like this is more disjointed from where I came from.

25:30Luke Moore: Under Emery, we knew what we were doing. Yeah, at times, it was patchy, but by and large, Emery's done a really good job at Villa. You know, they won that Europa League. Man United have, you know, a couple of times in Europa League finals in recent memory and they haven't won it. To make a direct comparison. So I just, again, in Buma at Brentford, yes, the club is far smaller than Manchester United, but you're comfortable. That's why he's got the signing because he's doing really, really well and he knows what's expected of him. He knows what the teammates are. you've got a system that it's working you go to the bigger club and you're like this is a bit of a shit show this he's not signing for United for that reason though is he no of course not but I'm saying though that for those players it is they're looking around thinking this is so disjointed how many managers have they gone through it's endemic this comes back to the initial point really doesn't it which is assuming or the question was assuming there is no change in ownership when is the earliest you see Manchester United seriously competing for winning the league not next season I wonder if it is actually possible under the glazers because I think it's always worth reminding everybody that they're not actually invested in that happening are they Man United generates an enormous amount of money just by existing and they're happy to just have some of that money so it's in the 21 years since they took over 1.3 billion pounds has gone out of the club when they bought Man United they did it with borrowed money which then became the club's own debt and United have paid almost 900 million pounds in interest on that debt they're not there to win stuff are they?

26:57Luke Moore: They're there to have an asset that is profitable and actually you know this suits them like this is the same as if they're winning stuff Fine I don't like the Glazers I'd rather they didn't own Manchester United just to again remind everybody but stuff has been won on their watch Sure That's not an argument for them I'm just saying factually it has You're right With Arsenal with Cronkert and those in charge of the club did you think that with Arsenal? Well Well, the interesting difference there, and I think there is a direct comparison to be made, is when Arsenal were at their lowest ebb, there was a bit of a boardroom standoff where Stan Kroenka owned a big chunk of the club and Alisha Usmanov owned a big chunk of the club.

27:36Luke Moore: I remember Usmanov. Kroenka didn't want to put money in to make Arsenal successful because he would then drive up the price of the shares Usmanov had and he wanted to buy them later. So he would be investing to make his own later purchase more expensive. so that was the key of the sort of standoff there. Once the Cronkers had full control they started putting more money in and they made a lot of changes at boardroom. There's been a lot of churn even in the time since Arteta's been there and we see this happen at Man United all the time as well. So it is a slightly different thing. So that was getting everybody on the same page in theory anyway.

28:10Luke Moore: Yeah. Because again at Manchester United I just don't see that. However, I mean maybe it ultimately is the leadership of the club. I mean we'll move on to the next question in just a moment. Yeah it is, of course it's that. But you know if that's happening then they're buggered. But I mean, they've even outsourced that to Ineos. True. But I just wonder, with the money that they have and the size of the club and the players that they still can attract, can they get that manager in like an Arteta or a Klopp who's going to like, right, let's turn the ship around or is it simply, as you've said before, Luke, unmanageable and it's not going to happen?

28:39I think it's become unmanageable because of the size of it and because of the Glazer ownership model and because of the Ineos thing as well. Let's not forget, like people wanted Ratcliffe in there because it was Ratcliffe or the Qataris and people didn't want for whatever reason Ratcliffe's a fan you know all this kind of shit he's British blah blah blah whatever the reasons were Ratcliffe's embarrassed himself time and time again since he's been there and not only has he embarrassed himself he's undermined what the football club are trying to do I mean he was slagging off players individually publicly at one point you know so it doesn't matter who you put in there the fish rots from the head right so if you've got a manager even the size of say Conte some people think might come in next Conte's a very combustible character who got pissed off all the time in several of his jobs.

29:22And he needs to be in this job

29:23Luke Moore: for the long haul, right? Which is not going to be him. Most recently in this country when he was at Spurs, when he felt like exactly the same situation was happening in a slightly different way where he wasn't getting the support he needed. So, you know, they need to find a way, I think, to get the Glazers and the Ineos guys out of the club and get an ownership model which works. But it's really difficult because part of the reason I say it's unmanaged was because the only other option for a club that size is going to be some of a big American guy, and it might be a Cronk here who eventually delivers success, and it might not, or a state ownership model, which as we've seen through the current things we're actually living through, is very problematic.

30:05So it's not easy to see the way forward for them, plus the fact that, of course, I know May United fans for a long time in the 90s and beyond were used to having it all their own way. They're not going to have it all their own way now because there's lots of other good teams in the Premier League.

30:19Luke Moore: I mean, Man City no longer being a sort of competitor, if that is indeed how it all pans out. I mean, are United in a good position to capitalise on that? A little bit fewer, a little bit less competition? Well, do you know what, Jimmy? Like I say, looking at the lie of the land in the Premier League, if you think, okay, Liverpool still, you know, if they're still not back at the races, you know, by the end of the season, blah, blah, blah. To answer the question, I think the absolute earliest, if I'm going to be incredibly generous, would be in three seasons time. just to give you a number. And that is worth absolutely nothing.

30:52Luke Moore: It doesn't mean anything, though. People have been saying that for years. Indeed. So Redhead Redemption, yeah. Pick a number between three and 300, and you might have something there.

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34:17Luke Moore: Brian has emailed us. Big Bri. He said, can you remember the best and worst period supporting your respective clubs? Best for me has got to be when Fulham reached the Europa League final. Oh, that was magical, wasn't it? It was, yeah. So I'd not long moved to London before that and had started going to watch Fulham. That's really where I started. I was pretty late to the party. But as you know, I didn't have an English team. So it was a little bit before that. But just going to the cottage on those European nights, it was outrageous. What was the kind of best and worst time supporting Rangers?

34:49Luke Moore: Very funny. Is that below the belt? Is that below the belt? Well, yeah. Right in the sparring. Well, the best time supporting Hearts was just before the game against Celtic at the end of last season. Exactly. That was that. But yeah, the worst period of support in Fulham was when they were cycling through managers in the Premier League after Martin Yol got sacked and it was just like, let's try René Mühlenstein. Let's try, just throw it at the back. That was worse than actual relegations, would you say? Well, because you, down in the championship, okay, there was a period in the championship where they were pretty poor actually.

35:26Luke Moore: But in the, but that was the start of it and you can just see it slinking down and then you're just like, do you know what? The relegation was put full of misery. But it was, but in the championship though, yeah, there was a little period where they weren't pulling up any trees. But then when you start getting into the playoffs, The Mitrovic season. Well, Mitrovic in the chat was glorious. Well, I think for me... And Yukanovich as well, the football they played there. I would have to, Europa League period and then the period, not long after that, sadly, when they were relegated. I would say Portsmouth, you know, Portsmouth were bad for a long time.

35:58Then they, and it was kind of like gallows humour type stuff. And, you know, they would always just about survive in the second tier, you know, first division, I guess, as it was then. And there was a lot of demeaning kind of stuff. around how skint they were all the time and the local news and stuff. And then they had the Prozenecki season. And then the season after that, they had Redknapp came in and they were amazing in the championship. But the season in the championship, 2002, 2003, was probably the best because it was like every time, and I used to go, it was before I moved to London, so I used to go.

36:33And every time you went, you'd be like, it's going to be fucking great today. I think they only lost one game at home that season. That was to Leicester. And it was a waterlogged pitch. And the game shouldn't have gone ahead. It was quite controversial at the time. I remember standing in the Milton end, but they had no roof on it. It was pissing it down, thinking, it's going to be called off. Let's get on with it so we can go to the pub or whatever. And the referee at the game go ahead and Leicester were playing a far more direct style than Portsmouth. He used to knock it about. And they beat us.

36:58I think it might have been 2-0, but they beat us. And I went to a few away trips that year as well. And that was brilliant. And then for the first kind of, you know, obviously you got the period after that where they go all the way through to 2008 and win the FA Cup. So I guess that's obviously great as well. But perhaps controversially, I'm not sure all the other Portsmouth fans would agree with this, but I actually felt like in the Premier League years between kind of 03 to kind of 10, it was really like the club came, felt like there was a lot of space between the fans and the club because it's a Premier League team now and you've got these players who come in for big money.

37:34They've not been around that long. They're not going to stick around for a long, you know, you get a player like a Diarro would come in. He was brilliant. you know we do really well then you go to Real Madrid you know you get you get you get Jermaine Defoe come in then he's off to Spurs whatever at one point we came very close to sign Michael Carrick and I was really excited about that and he went to Spurs so it was like it was very very different and then it obviously went to shit but I do think off the back of it going to shit sort of 2010 beyond and I do think Portsmouth fans would agree with me on this it got so bad that it was almost like we're back to the Gallows Hummus Pompey type thing and there's a big camaraderie around it you know people felt connected to the club connected to each other you know stuck it out and that was actually in a weird way quite enjoyable as well and now I feel like we're kind of where we should be could be a bit better but definitely probably in the division we should be in and it's okay so it's been a bit of a rollercoaster ride generally but I would just say that the best and worst time supporting the club when you have an experience of actually supporting it is perhaps not quite what you expect but we've certainly had a lot of stuff to get our teeth into

38:35Luke Moore: Go on then Jim Well we've got some younger listeners who I think it's worth kind of cycling back onto a particular topic you mentioned there for, which is Robert Prozenecki, who, if you've not heard of him, played for Barcelona and Real Madrid and Portsmouth. And it was in the then first division, right? When he was playing for you. Yes, correct. Second tier. Do you remember how that came about? Yeah, because Amanda Rich, the owner, was friends with him and friends with his people and he wanted somewhere to play after he'd left a Belgian, he'd been at a Belgian club. And his career was kind of winding down.

39:06He didn't really do much after that. He only stayed for a year. But it was kind of like a glorified favour to the manager.

39:11Luke Moore: What a year, though. I'll tell you, what's amazing is when you watch his goals on YouTube, like, it's great to watch the goals because they're amazing. He's obviously way better than every other player. But the players that are celebrating with him are a disgrace. It's like players you forgot ever played for Portsmouth. It's like, you know, a Neil Barrett, a Courtney Pitt. Players that no one would ever know about unless you support a Portsmouth. Which is just kind of weird. It's like they all can't believe they're basically playing with him. but even then that season I mean he was amazing he's probably one of the best players to ever play for the club of course but I mean they they didn't do anything I mean they struggled badly but what I would say is before we wrap is that the the reason that Kranskaj signed for Portsmouth I think was because of Pozniac get a load of that five years later or whatever it was Arsenal best period I mean the obvious answer in terms of the best period is the 0-3-0-4 season when Arsenal went unbeaten to win the Premier League I was early 20s at the time.

40:06Luke Moore: Absolutely loving it. Me and my Arsenal, well, yeah, very much so. Me and my Arsenal supporting friends sort of couldn't believe our luck that the football was so good. I remember a game against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge where Chelsea scored really early. I think it was William Gallas of all people. And me and my friend Mark were just like, we just know we're going to win. We just know we're going to win in a way that like not really experienced since. And I think within about 20 minutes Arsenal have gone 2-1 up, won the game 2-1 in the end. That was incredible. But actually, now I'm older I go to the games I've lived through the period after that where you know moving to the stadium meant Arsenal had to sell a lot of their best players and you've got to balance the books haven't you well quite yeah there are rules to follow if you want to spend money sacrifice after me but yeah so that being amongst it being all of the games going down to the stadium to celebrate afterwards and kind of really feeling like being a part of that journey at least in person you know and uh worst period yeah um i don't think about that too much oh yeah that was amazing that was that i mean that was an astonishing yeah i was at the edema festival when that happened i think in 2011 which was actually quite good because you could walk out the pub and it was like it hadn't happened because there's a sensory overload everywhere but it was still I was still very aware that that had happened I mean that was the absolute nadir really and oddly led to um the signing of Mikel Arteta as a sort of uh kind of last day kind of uh trolley dash which was really quite something and also the um the the 10-2 shellacking from Bayern Munich 5-1 um in two separate legs in the Champions League was was bad that was in the round of 16 in 2017 I often I often think sorry Jim to cut in but I often think on the 8-2 thing it's always interesting to see Ferguson's interview after that game he was a bit embarrassed I think he was he came across really embarrassed actually quite sympathetic and that's not a good sign if they're a rival especially given the complicated history between the two which had always been a rivalry but one of kind of a grudging respect as well it was a really interesting addendum to that but yeah the thing with the Bayern Munich one was that Arsenal had gone out in the round of 16 in the Champions League seven seasons in a row.

42:26Luke Moore: I think three of them were against Bayern. This was routine but with this one you could see it was different. It was like, we're not going to be back here for a while. For some time and that was how it proved to be. Obviously, that's a charmed existence to be in. But I remember it being It's all relative. Just feeling very flat. It is relative. Whereas now, you're very pointed. If that's the right word. Erect, perhaps. Last question. Chimescent. Jim, would you say you're chimescent? Not right now. Okay. Disappointing. Save that for the Patriots. I'm 44 give me a run give him a walk up let's finish with this from Teej on the Discord out of all the current Premier League managers who would your pick be for the three traitors and why oh good so I mean I'm sure everybody at least knows how the traitors works but if you don't just get out at the risk of sounding like somebody who doesn't have a TV I have got a TV it's massive pay your license obviously explain the traitors to me for God's sake Jim alright so say 20 odd people are in a house and they all put blindfolds on around a big table how odd are these people they're Premier League managers three of them are picked to be traitors am I turning or are you turning why did you just put in unnecessary detail with the blindfolds to know what's happening they select three traitors and then the faithfuls who aren't the traitors obviously have to then work really hard a vote every night based on the behaviour of everyone around to vote the traitors out.

43:58If they don't vote them out by a certain time, the traitors win. If the traitors all get voted out, the faithfuls win. But the traitors murder people.

44:05Luke Moore: Oh yeah, every night the traitors murder someone. So the numbers dwindle. Right, and how does the murders take place? Oh, it's very civilised. You just get a letter. It's very civilised. Yeah, I mean, you're arsed off the show, essentially. What you're looking for here in this context... You're invited to fuck off. Yeah, you're looking for someone who goes under the radar and it's probably a bit inscrutable. I'd say you probably want to be looking for a Reggie Libris, probably. So think about it, Jim. If the conversations I'm saying to you, you're saying to me, are you a traitor? I'm like, no, of course not.

44:32Luke Moore: Okay, well, you're acting a bit shifty or, you know, someone, and if loads of people were saying, oh, I think we think Marcus is a, or if one particular person is saying, I think Marcus is a traitor and then they're killed off, that looks suspicious on me. So these are the mind games. So you need basically someone who's very poker facey and is very, very, very, very good. I think LeBris would be the best. I think you've got the old sheer aggression angle that kind of Jekirovic could do or one or two others where you're just like, I'm not a traitor. Get fucked. But that might make you look like a traitor.

45:02I'll tell you who'd be a good faithful.

45:04Luke Moore: Keith Andrews. Yeah, but that means he'd be a good traitor. No, not necessarily. People would think he's a faithful. Yeah, but I think he'd be a good faithful. Mikel Arteta would be a bit mad, Ed. Yeah. I'll tell you what, someone who I think might be quite interesting for this. Daniel Farker. I'm always interested in Daniel Farker. Put your clothes on. Speaking of Tremessian. Is Andoni Arreola. Because the kind of rictus grin that he has is quite hard to read. It is hard to read. To be honest with you, I think... I think your fiery Continentals are going to be poor. Sergei Yikirovich. Right, I'm killing you.

45:39Luke Moore: Oh, no. Your Arbeloas. Yeah. Your Marescas. Right. Your Artetas. I mean, Marescas is a traitor, isn't he? Exactly. He's already won. they're going to find it very difficult the Emerys of this world well you think they'll find it difficult to lie you think it'd be no I think they'll find it difficult to maintain their emotions okay yeah David Moyes I think he'd be quite good I think he'd be an excellent troke I think also Moyes in that particular environment right is the sort of the grand old dame of the Premier League yes he has a natural sort of kind of gravitas maybe am I overstating how much people Carrick might not be bad no I think Carrick I think he would be he's quite chill though isn't he emotionless isn't he he is but I think if pressed I think he might I think Frank Lampard wouldn't be good am I trying am I trying seriously though seriously I am a traitor I've richly granted it yeah spoilers you know some things have a cultural impact wider than things you've actually seen fair enough okay what about gag gag o 'neil he's a faithful I'm not sure he'll understand the concept it's too busy yeah stuff going on fair enough fair enough him and carrick are just too busy for this.

46:49Luke Moore: So they should be, really. Thank you for listening to the Football Ramble, part of the Acast Creator Network. Pleasure having you with us. Thank you, Jim. Thank you. Thank you, Luke. Thanks. We'll see you tomorrow.

47:05The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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