Mailbag: What's the best way to watch football?

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4:13Luke Moore: Hello, everybody. Good to have you with us on this Tuesday tickle at the Football Ramble. If you want to get involved with the mailbag, you can tweet us on x at Football Ramble, message us on Instagram and bluesky at Football Ramble, email us at footballramble.com, and, of course, patron people, you can get involved in the Discord as well. And you can also leave a comment over on YouTube. No excuses. There's loads of ways. Loads of ways. You'd have to really go out of your way to not do one of those. Carry a pigeon. Yeah, could do that. Now, I'm going to start proceedings with this question from Jack Agnelli, who got in touch on Instagram.

4:49Do we reckon he's part of the famous Agnelli family of Juventus?

4:52Luke Moore: I hope not. I suppose, because this could be genuine research for them if he is. And Jack asked this question, should the titles that Juventus were stripped of... Not a deal, that's not what he said. Eddie said, what's your favourite way to actually watch football? Stadium, sofa, pub, etc. Oh, you were looking at me, are you? I'm looking at both of you boys. For me, it's... I know you've got strong opinions. That's why I came to you first. It's interesting because I think that the more the coverage and footage of the games improves, you know, ultra HD and 4K and camera angles... Not quite. Well, far is part of it.

5:34and you'd actually have a bit more of an understanding of what's going on with VAR. But the more that you can have an amazing experience watching it on a really nice TV in the comfort of your own home, the more it is appealing, you know? And I think also, if you factor in that, in some cases, not all, but in some cases, the way you have to, for example, travel to a game, the way you're treated getting there, the nightmare it can be getting back with the... Bloody cost. Yeah, the cost as well. The infrastructure in England, particularly, is on its arse. So that's all part of it. It can become a bit of a slog.

6:12So, for example, if I go and watch... I go and watch Fulham sometimes. I go and watch Arsenal sometimes. I go and watch Spurs sometimes. I go and watch Portsmouth sometimes. And various other individual games here and there. But, for example, if I go to Spurs... Oh, it's a nightmare. From South London, even. I'm not even coming from outside the city. Anywhere in London is a nightmare. Yeah, it's a big old... I mean, say it's a Sunday game. It's basically the whole Sunday. And so if it's... I'm not a Spurs fan. I'm going for work reasons or for individual kind of, you know, enjoyment reasons rather than anything else without having a stake in what they're doing.

6:46It is sometimes more appealing to watch it on a brilliant TV in a nice comfort of my own home with, you know, with all the camera angles I could ever watch.

6:53Luke Moore: Also, if you're doing a podcast the next day, for example, you do get to see more of it. Yeah, exactly. You do. And that's interesting how it changes. I remember Andy saying this a number of months ago on this very show saying, you know, back in the day when we were kids, if you went to the games, particularly as Pompey, you know, Portsmouth's a one-club city, right? Lots of people support Portsmouth down there, obviously. In the school playground or the college cafe or whatever, you're chatting about Pompey, which everyone would be. Well, I was at the game. Yeah. It mattered. It mattered. Yeah, totally.

7:22Luke Moore: It gave you authority, didn't it? Because you weren't watching Portsmouth games on telly. So, the dynamic is interesting and I think it's ever-evolving. But to answer the question specifically, I would just say, depends on the game. If it's a massive England game, it's an appointment to watch. Like England, Denmark in the semi-final of the Euros, right? I wanted to be there. I'm pleased I was there. It wouldn't have been the same on TV, although I still would have watched it on TV and enjoyed it. So for that kind of showpiece game, I'm delighted to be there and amongst it. But lots of games, I'm actually happy to be at home.

7:52The only games I watch in the pub is games that are of very little consequence to me and I'm going there as a kind of glorified social occasion. I would never choose to watch a game in the pub.

8:00Luke Moore: I mean, context is... boringly so crucial. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Jack says, what's your favourite way to actually watch football? Stadium, sofa, pub. And I think that is the correct order, personally. Obviously, you know, despite the valid points Luke has just made about how actually nowadays sometimes you do get a clearer understanding of certain things happening in the game if you're watching at home, especially dependent on where you're sat in the stadium. It's very easy to miss things up the other end, isn't it? If you're behind one of the goals. I do think the match they experience of it is just second to none.

8:33Luke Moore: And that feeling of being actually able to be involved and kind of, you can't affect the game from the crowd, but you sort of can a bit. And there is that feeling, isn't there, that you're actually sort of involved. And that is a wonderful feeling. As TV coverage has got better and as massive HD TVs have got more affordable, yeah, that's my preference now. Now, I think I used to prefer watching in the pub, but as I've got older, that gets a bit more tedious. But I will say, if there's a big game and it's a game I'm nervous about and I can't go to it for whatever reason, I would prefer to watch that in a pub with other England fans or other Arsenal fans, depending on what the circumstance of the game is.

9:18Luke Moore: Because I think there's a sort of... There's a strength in numbers and a shared experience. I understand that. You want to celebrate it with people if it goes well and you want to commiserate with other people if it doesn't. So not every game feels like that, but there are some games where it's like, you know what, I do fancy the pub for this. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think that communal, it's the level of investment really. Although, I mean, there is something stunning about a huge showpiece game where you may not personally be invested in an emotional sense, but if you see, like when you saw the great Lionel Messi play for Barcelona against Spurs at Wembley, it's a game you remember very fondly for that reason, obviously.

9:57Luke Moore: but to see that in the flesh. And I think that... But that would come under a showpiece occasion, in my view. You're going to watch one of the greatest players of all time and take the opportunity to do so. You have to do it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that the thrill of going to football, I still have it. Like, even, you know, I've seen Fulham hundreds of times at Craven Cottage, but whenever you walk up the stairs of a stadium and the first glimpse of the pitch... Yeah, it never gets boring. It's just phenomenal. Like, it's just... Yeah. It is wonderful. So, I think, you know, to watch football at the ground, But unfortunately, as you say, I mean, if you could helicopter in on the helipad and, you know, you get home without any traffic or public transport and all the rest of it, and it's all free in an ideal world, then, yeah, of course, you'd probably go to a lot more games.

10:39It annoys me what football fans are happy to put up with.

10:42Luke Moore: Yes. And I think that... Because even at Arsenal, like, even at Arsenal, you have to make plans to not use Highbury and Islington after a game. I mean, the queue is ridiculous. The infrastructure has not been invested. Holloway Road is too small for them to open it as well. Exactly. And so you have this situation where between an incredibly wealthy football club and an incredibly wealthy league and a local council, they haven't got together to come up with some way to invest in infrastructure in that area, which would benefit everyone, including the council themselves. Because my cynical view of it is because they know that football fans will just accept it anyway.

11:17There's no motivation to do it because it's not as though football fans are pulling up the road complaining and rioting about it because they just used to be treated like cattle. so they accept it and it's terrible at Spurs for that as well it's kind of terrible at Portsmouth because Portsmouth is kind of an island one road off it really and one train line out of it but you're right to say a thing I didn't say it in my opening point but I think you're right to say it Marcus which is the idea that when I went to Frampton Park most recently it is kind of amazing as an experience because it's so imbued with your history and your upbringing and all the different memories you've got and it's a kind of smells and the things that are quite spiritual in a way

11:58Luke Moore: and the sense of purpose as well that you feel really really connected to those players in a sense something you said earlier Jim about the when you're at the game it's ridiculous to think on one hand well you know I can affect something here but then of course you know people do famously talk about like the European Knights at Anfield or the crowd play the part but in that obviously you're not doing that as an individual but you make up a collective but it's not necessarily the fact that you can maybe influence things, but I, you know, sorry to bring up a bad memory here, but I was really glad I was at the Euro 2020 final between England and Italy, because oddly, I know this is going to sound obviously gutted and it was the days after and all that kind of stuff.

12:39Luke Moore: I would have been more gutted oddly if I'd have watched it on television. I think being there, you were quite sanguine about the whole thing actually, weren't you? Yeah, it was a unique experience, but I think when you're up and you see it all happen. it's also I think it's worth pointing out you missed all of the crazy stuff that happened in a different part of the stadium indeed yeah obviously I'm not talking about that that's the bad side he incited it though yeah well from where he was it's never been proven no it's not and it never will because I didn't there's what you know and there's what you can prove and if you don't like it you can go for a swim yeah in Wembley around Wembley there will be facilities there's got to be a legend I'm pretty sure there is one or jumping the canal it's just down the road Yeah.

13:21Luke Moore: Don't do that. Probably wouldn't be doing that. Well, it's a thing you can do. Yeah. Yeah, true. Or you can play paddle. You've got options. Or have a paddle in the canal. There we go. Yeah. Climb a tree. Have a lasagna. So, yeah, you've got options anyway. Look at Ian Beale's Wikipedia page. Keep it real. We're still going. Keep it real. We're still going on this. This is going to last and last. It is, yeah. Until we've named everything. Or if you don't want to go to the football stadium, you can watch it in the pub. You can watch it. On Jim's pub thing, when I was younger, I used to love that.

13:55So every England game, I used to go to this pub in Fairroom called Pitches. It's not there anymore. And it used to be an amazing atmosphere there. And because I suppose part of that for me was growing up where I grew up, being the age I was, like, I think I went to one England game at Wembley on a coach trip. Other than that, I'd never had the opportunity to go and watch an England game. So like, that was the kind of only option to watch it. And all my friends at that time, I think it was part of the football club team I played for had decided that was the venue to go we used to get there early to make sure we'd get in it was absolutely rammed it was the closest thing to being in a game because you're shoulder to shoulder it's on the big screen and it was we had some amazing times there so that shared experience thing as an idea of the next best experience of watching a game is definitely great but now like to me I'm not motivated to go to the pub to watch it because partly because of this job because I find that if you watch it in the pub you don't really watch it you get distracted you're with someone you're chatting you never hear the commentary

14:50Luke Moore: but then if you are watching in the pub or very much so at the stadium then your focus I think is much more on the game sometimes it does depend on what happened but sometimes one can be tempted to start saying well what's the chat around the game on social media or is anybody chucking up anything or your WhatsApp groups and all that kind of stuff so it's awesome for courses that's some of our best stuff though on the Ramble WhatsApp group never makes it onto this show but it's good stuff on the WhatsApp it can't you did a great joke on the WhatsApp yesterday that it could never, ever be broadcast, Marcus.

15:20Well, you did. Yeah. You did, didn't you? You are right. And people will listen to this and go, I thought Marcus was the golden boy of the round ball. Oh, come on. It wasn't rude. I'll tell you what. It wasn't rude. No, it wasn't. It was about... Don't say what it was about. I'm going to say what it was about. Beautifully satirical. Yeah, it was amazingly executed. It was beautifully satirical. It was off the back of some controversy at Glastonbury involving a well-known energy company. It was satirical. There you go. That's all right. Okay.

15:47Luke Moore: You fill in the dots yourself. Yeah, yeah. Make them do a bit of a joke. Why have you got to do all the hard work? If you see me out and about, I'll tell you the joke. Thank goodness we're not doing live shows for a bit. Or maybe we should. If I'm coming up with that stuff. Just for that. Yeah, there we go. 15 of them, we'd get a live show there, wouldn't we? Good night, everybody. Anyway, that's answered the question. Actually, this is one of those questions we get on the mailbag where I'd love to hear what the general consensus among the listenership. So get involved on our Discord if you're a Patreon subscriber or sign up if you're not.

16:20And let us know because that's an interesting... I'd love to stay in touch with what our listeners think about that kind of thing as well. And is there a fourth way? It could be. Well, but can I just say, the reason I'm asking that is because I would... I don't... I'm always reading because of prices, because of cost of living and the fact that they're always closing down now. I'm always reading there isn't so much of pub culture as you'd think watching games. I feel like, maybe this is rose-tinted spectacles, but I feel like in the late 90s, early 2000s, it was a big part of it.

16:52Luke Moore: Yeah, massively. Could be our age, but yeah. But I think you might be onto something there. That's what I kept thinking every 15 minutes while I was watching the Glastonbury coverage. Could be my age, but not sure about this. Not sure. Neil Young, never heard of him. Well, the fourth one, I don't remember the fourth one, but something I've never done is when you get hordes of fans go to the city where the final is or something like that. They've not got a ticket. You've done that with Rangers, didn't you? You went to Manchester, didn't you? Yeah, I did. Yes, I did. And I smashed it all up. It was me on my own.

17:23Luke Moore: That's what I did. Good effort if it was you on your own. Massive effort. It was a huge effort. My preferred is actually a fifth way, which is I sit on the phone and I put a blindfold on and I get Pete to describe the game to me. Oh, right. Yeah. I don't want to... Halfway through sometimes, I'm like, is this a porno? I'm not going to press you on that. But no, I think though, I'm fascinated by that, that those who go just, basically, you're watching the pub, you're watching the game in the pub, but the pub just happens to be outside the stadium. I'm not bothered about that. It just feels a bit like going to an orgy and only having a wank.

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21:12Luke Moore: Chelsea versus Benfica, don't watch it. It's a free world. Welcome back to the Melbourne, everyone. Six options there, just in that clip. Yeah, just off the top of his head. Imagine if you tried to play paddle while walking in a swimming pool with one TV on one and then a Netflix on the other TV all at the same time. Whilst having a nice meal. I forgot about the meal. I was trying to get them all in. The nice meal. Yeah, a nice meal. You can go for a shit meal. You're probably going to choose to go for a nice one. You don't really know. I mean, obviously you're hedging your bets on where you're going to have it.

21:43Luke Moore: But it may not end up being nice. Could be a restaurant you've been to many times that you always know is reliable, though. But hence hedging your bets. You think, we should be fine here. But it could have been a disaster. I've never had a bad meal at McDonald's, is all I'm saying. Before it's consistent, you know what you're going to get. Before Jurgen Klopp saw that clip from Carve Solicol, he was thinking, I'm really, really annoyed by the Club World Cup, but I don't know what else to do. I don't know. I'm just sitting here. I have to remind myself to breathe and then Kaveh was helping him out so it's good on him, it's public service really I think it's very helpful for old Jürgen next question yeah well one of the things you can obviously do as well is to email the Football Ramble mailbag and Bona Watson has done that Bona Watson Bona asks what are your thoughts on introducing a relegation playoff between the teams placed 15th and 18th, if you lose two games you're relegated, so this is specifically on the Premier League I presume, yes Yes.

22:39Luke Moore: Bona is essentially, you know, pitching an alternative to relegation. It's a reverse playoff. It's a reverse playoff. It is. It's a kind of playoff of doom. So, yes. So, I guess that means you lose the actual playoff, doesn't it? The Sky Sports coverage has to reflect that. It has to be done like a Halloween night. Like horror. The pundits need to be like Freddy Krueger. Use the Undertaker's entry. Yes, please. Yeah, the Undertaker. Some air has got to be involved. Is he still alive? Not sure. Right at the start of the game, the referee just sits up. Yeah, I was going to say, the pundit has to sit up with the chair, just sits up for its undertaker.

23:14Undertaker's gone full Trump as well, by the way. Oh, has he? Another bonus. Another bonus, Bona Watson. Hey, don't do that to Watson. We don't know. No, we don't know. I mean, he called himself Bona Watson. His mum's not named him that. And anyway, the idea, I think, clearly is motivated by how poor the relegation battle was this season.

23:35Luke Moore: Oh, poor Bearer died in 2013. God, rest him. 12 years now. He's definitely someone who has rest him. 12 years we've been beyond it. He gets to rest himself, probably. 12 years we've been beyond it without him. He's now carrying his own urn in the afterlife, isn't he? He'll be back. Yeah, he will. Sorry, you were making a point. It must be a weird experience, people being the pallbearer. At the funeral of the pallbearer. Yeah, that is a weird one. How the roles have reversed. he's a big lad as well if you're the funeral director probably four wrestlers so actually six actually it's always six years if you're the funeral director and you get that gig you're calling your mate you should never guess what I'm doing you won't believe it but on Monday I'm going proper meta surely the music yeah you'd hope wouldn't you yeah I don't know amazing you think the guy he managed he's late is he what an entrance it's what Paul would want when the Undertaker dies people are going to be expecting something I'll be there yeah he's like Baron Samaday he ain't going to die if I was the Undertaker and I got to the age of years now I'd have done that about 15 times yeah I would have done yeah yeah anyway what was the question oh the playoff so I like this yeah I'll tell you why I like it because if we go for another few seasons of the like that we've been through last year So you think it's conditional?

25:04Well, all I know is that in 1987, the promotion playoffs were introduced because the authorities felt like beyond a certain part of the season, too many teams had too little to play for. So if you're not going to be in the top two and you're not going to get relegated, your base is going through the motions for sometimes months. So they bring the playoffs in in 1987 and say there's now something to play for.

25:28Luke Moore: We have to acknowledge that it's annoying for some teams, but it has worked. It's brilliant. It has worked. And I'm speaking as a fan of a team who's never, ever won a playoff game, singular game, ever. So I get that it's annoying. And I remember when Fulham finished third, they were distinctly the third best side. They were going to the top two. It wasn't enough. They did win the playoffs, though. That's fine then. But it was enough in the end. Still there's jeopardy, though, right? Yeah, totally. So with this, you've got a situation where perhaps it would mean that certain teams can't get into it by just thinking, well 17th isn't enough or isn't necessarily enough then of course you would probably do 15th versus 18th so the 15th team gets to play at home one off game, you lose that you're further down to the pit of doom you're into the final the anti-final 16th vs 17th it's the same they play off and they lose that they're down, that to me feels like a pretty exciting thing and it's going to particularly tear at the fabric of what football actually is and the top flight in this country.

26:31It's never been done before. But the reason I like it is because it's not the same way they do it, say, in Germany, where you come 18th, you still get a chance to get out of it because you play against a team in the division below, which seems particularly harsh on the team in the second tier, in my view.

26:46Luke Moore: I do, yeah. I agree with you there. Also, though, you say that two years in a row in the Premier League, we've had the Pryor Sides go straight back down and quite convincingly go straight back down, and we're a bit concerned about that. are you also looking at that table going oh we'd have had Man United and Spurs in there as well that would be a fucking amazing bonus oh my god imagine because if you're on a pathway then you know that with Man United and Spurs you knew I mean to be fair to you've got to say to to Man United they did finish above Wolves actually it was yeah Wolves and Leicester would have made it up they're in there as well yeah so it would have been Man United would play Leicester at home I ain't backing them for that and Wolves play Spurs at home it could have been Spurs being Man United a very different kind of Europa League probably the same poor quality yeah Jim what do you think about this specifically with what old Boner said it would be hugely entertaining and it guarantees drama and obviously means more games but they're both things that the powers that be love is it the favourite question you've been asked of a Boner yeah it's been a while so I think the one thing that I do kind of take umbrage with it with is that it feels extremely unfair on the team who finished 15th and therefore makes a little bit of a mockery of the table itself.

28:06Luke Moore: And I agree with you on that. I suppose you are just adding this jeopardy zone, aren't you? So the table itself becomes different. So I do agree with you. And remember, you're all right, Arsenal. You're going to finish second again. You're not going to be anywhere near this. As a Fulham fan, you're thinking, blimey, hang on a minute, we finished 20 points or whatever above the team in 18th. but that's exactly the same as the playoffs in the championship it's exactly the same you're basically saying well but on merit that shouldn't be that's what we're saying about the playoffs and that comparing it to the playoffs and the drama and the excitement that that brings the only thing though sorry Marcus just to cut in there there's no better example of that than the championship last season Sheffield United finished 14 points ahead of Sunday easily the best third best side in there and they finished 22 points above the team they had to play Bristol City in sixth.

28:57But it wasn't enough.

28:58Luke Moore: Well, indeed. The only thing I would say an argument against this is that the playoffs, it is ultimately a sort of... It's framed in a more positive way. Win this and you get promoted. It's a traditional set-up. But these other teams are shit. They don't deserve that. Fine. But it's a traditional set-up which is why it's kind of exciting. But it wasn't traditional pre-87, was it? It was new. No, but the premise is you win something and then your reward is you get you're in a better thing than you were before or whatever yeah but this is a this is a pessimistic negative idea yes for doomsday times right I think it fits suits the feeling of the world yeah I'm just I'm talking on behalf of all supporters I'd make it all all the fans have to wear black or they don't get in Dallas would be alright they would they've got a tradition of that they would yeah Napoli would be fine wouldn't they you mean Lazio and Napoli Napoli a lot of them all dressed in black Do they?

29:55Kimora type uniformity. That Lazio's more sinister.

29:57Luke Moore: Yeah, you invoked Lazio, not me. Okay, sorry about that. You keep talking about Lazio. I mean, you did it yesterday as well. That was Juan Bernabe. You insist that there's a Rangers or a Lazio mention in every show. Enough of this. Oh, I'll get the Brexit stuff. And that's fine, is it? Every time you do Brexit. Did you actually vote for him? Oh, fuck off. Would you just hand me that one? You and Sir Rod. You just handed me a weapon. It was you and Sir Rod, man. Sir Rod. Both sides of Glasgow. You and Sir Rod. Oh, dear. Well, anyway. What's the next question? Ask me. I've got it here from Matty.

30:26Luke Moore: So what do we think then? You're for it? Yeah, why not? Fuck it. At this point, whatever. Okay. You know, what about this from Matty? My wife and I are expecting our first child. Ah, something positive. Congratulations. I feel bad saying we're living in doomsday time. No, we're not now. He says, I'm over the moon and I can't wait to meet my wee pal. However, call it silly, but I'm doing my head in trying to think of what to do when it comes to football teams. I'm an Inverness Caledonian Thistle and Man United fan. Brackets, I know, I know. Two teams that have had a rough couple of years. Forcing my child to be a fan of these two teams may constitute child abuse in some countries, but I can't bear thinking there's a 1 % chance my son may become a Liverpool, or even worse, a Ross County fan.

31:04What should I do? Should I force my child to follow my lead or let them set their own sail? We get a lot of questions like this.

31:12Luke Moore: Yes, yeah. I quite like being an agony aunt. Can I let the tire of conversation down potentially early on by saying... You don't have to watch football. We don't, but... You can play paddle. Yeah, you could. Why not, instead of making your kid watch football... You can go for a swim. Yeah, take her for a swim. It's an important life skill, teaching the kid how to swim. My point is going to be that this is very individual to the human beings in question. So if you want my take to kick us off, I will say that I have decided... I've got a son, he's two. he's starting to become aware of what football is.

31:52He asked for it on the telly without really understanding it, but much like his dad, really. I have decided that I'm not going to coerce him into any kind of club. There's a few clubs on the list that I've decided that it's going to be absolutely forbidden for him to support.

32:11Luke Moore: It's a long way to travel and it'll be very expensive. Yeah, yeah. You'll never get to watch him. You fill in the blanks yourself. But what I have done is just a starting thing for him. is I've signed him up on the waiting list for season ticket at his local club. And that'll be a starting point. And that's fair. And he can go off because to me there's nothing really in it for him to support Portsmouth. There'll be plenty of influence of him to do so if he wants to. But he's not from there. Exactly. And so if he decides that he wants to because he wants to be like his dad I'll be very proud about that.

32:41But I'll obviously encourage it and do all the miles that it takes. But in the meantime I'd quite like him to find his own way. So I think before you guys come in just very, very briefly as I wanted to say, there is no right or wrong answer to this. You've got to feel how you feel and do what's right for you and your kid. Marcus, you're a parent.

32:59Luke Moore: What do you think? Well, I think you're only echoing the words of... It's a free world. Yeah. They've got to find their own way. Exactly. But you're right, I think... So are you encouraging your lads to be... Lazio? Yeah. Well, I think that... Well, because their dads are the penis extension, right? So it makes perfect sense. Yeah, it's why they're here.

33:22Luke Moore: I think that if you, I think the idea of a local club, because that's something that I actually didn't have growing up. Yeah, okay. And it's something that I really, well, I mean, I could have, but I wasn't in Korea without boring. I think it's a lovely thing to give the option of that. So what Matt is saying is that he's an Inverness Cali fan. Now, he doesn't say where he's from or where they're living. so maybe that's a consideration for Matty there. I mean, if he is in the sort of Inverness area, then far away. Presumably they are in Scotland, so I think Manchester United is fine because a lot of people in Scotland do have an English side as well.

34:08But it's not local. No. So the same point you made to me about Portsmouth, it's worse for him because it's so far away.

34:15Luke Moore: Indeed. Well, I'm saying, so if he thinks, you know, as he says, this may constitute child abuse. I mean, I think local side, and then if you want an English side as well, that's not a problem. You know, I know you have a soft spot for Aberdeen, for example. Yeah, that's very convenient for me, that. Very local, that one. Very local. Easy to get to, yeah. But I'm saying that, let's say that you ramp that up for whatever reason, then I think you're within your rights too, because it's in a different league, et cetera, et cetera. For me, though, I kind of agree with you, Luke, that Fulham happens to be a local side for us, and that happens to be my team.

34:46Luke Moore: So I will say in due course, look, we can go along there and watch. I mean, let's be honest, it'll be Fulham Ladies because of ticket prices and so on. We actually haven't gone and seen Fulham Ladies before. So we can go along there and this is an option. Here are the sights and sounds and all the rest of it. No, I can't afford the swimming pool. Sorry about that. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you don't fancy this and you fancy something else, I'm not going to stop you. But when you're of an age where you can understand it, I may well say, okay, you want to support that team. there's a certain stigma around that and you try and do it but inevitably with a lot of people when they're at a very young age they're very impressionable they like the colour of the kit they like a particular player and things can stick.

35:26Luke Moore: Well you're obviously both parents so we'll know this better than I do. But you can still give Matthew some advice. They are going to be influenced by you as well though right? So if you're watching Fulham or Portsmouth obviously there's going to be a lot of Premier League football in both of your houses so I guess they're exposed to a lot of it but your influence might be a lot more subtle than you think, right? He might love Fulham because he sees you get excited when they score a goal or whatever. But he might not because he thinks, ah, whatever, I'll be old man. Sure. I mean, I think that kind of cognition is likely to come later though, right?

36:01Luke Moore: Probably. Yeah, I think what I would say, a bit of advice, is that I've got a few mates who, so I've got a mate, him and his two brothers, both support Arsenal. All three of them, sorry, support Arsenal. and the reason given is because their old man's a Spurs fan and he hammered them with the Spurs thing and they got to an age and they were just a bit like, fuck this. And they went the other way. Dangerous game. I do kind of think it's a bit of a shame. A wicked game, Chris Isaac would say. Oh, yeah. I do kind of, again, this is just my sort of interpretation. I do find it when somebody like, you know, I would know someone from Chichester, massive on Blackburn Rovers, now lives in Norwich and it just never gets it never goes at all I had a mate who I worked with at Skies from London and he was like a diehard Shifle Wednesday fan because of like Chris Waddle in the night yeah I used to like Wednesday as well and so that kind of thinking who knows where one ends up living and you know people may move abroad and all that kind of stuff so I understand that you may not but I just I find it slightly odd when you've got no connection at all to the local area and you've you're never going to go and watch and play because I think those things are, as I've gotten older, a little bit more important, which is kind of one of the reasons why I started supporting Fulham World.

37:19Luke Moore: That's why you support Palmier, isn't it? Exactly. Yeah. Die hard on them. All right then. Let's have a quick break and we'll have a couple more questions after that.

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39:09Luke Moore: now then gentlemen Freddie Witten has been in touch on Instagram and said who is the best slash most successful 12th man bracket squad player of all time that guy who starts a little bit that's how often off the bench a vital player in the team but maybe not a bona well not a bona fide starter it depends which way you look at it right because you could also factor in can play in various positions yes like I know in Hargreaves Phil Neville A Phil Neville, a Fizzer. James Milner. A Luis Enrique. I think Milner at Man City is a great one. And at Liverpool. Yeah. I think James Milner is a really good answer for that.

39:45If you're going straight, like, effectively using this as a, you know, as a super sub type question. Come on. You're going to go Ole Gunnar?

39:54Luke Moore: You are. You're going to go... Teddy Sheringham as well. Ole Giroud. Yeah, a bit of Divock Origi perhaps. Chicharito. Impactful. Good one. That's a nice one. Origi was impactful though. Yeah. He's loved at Liverpool for a reason. You absolutely have to mention him because of the goals in the semi-final and the final of the Champions League. But I, yeah. Was Canu one for Arsenal? He was, yeah. He scored a lot of goals off the bench. And he was kind of, obviously, I can't really remember if he shifted his position around a lot. You'd expect probably not. But he was a proper ace card at times. I just remember around that kind of really, really big era for Arsenal, he wouldn't always start.

40:31Luke Moore: I feel like Leandro Trossard is that sort of guy at the moment. Although Trossard, I think... He's also a one-fuck-all. No, no, no. He's featured in every game, I think, in the league last season. Well, best slash most successful. Of all time. Of all time, Leandro Trossard. Sorry, I was just having a chat with Jim for a second. I feel like Arsenal, that would be the closest thing, maybe. Like, you know, I mean, I would say Tom Cairn as well. Anyway, right, back in. I mean there's players aren't there who perhaps don't quite even have the career they probably could have because this idea of being this like you know multi Swiss army knife of a player type thing means they never quite nail it down because they fill in when needed yeah exactly yeah so I mean in terms of successful squad player because what the question is the way that Freddie has phrased it or written it, and I am going to criticise someone corresponding with us for this, is it's quite unclear because he says 12th man, then bracket squad player.

41:32They're not the same thing. They're not the same thing. A 12th man to me is someone you chuck on because you need something. But it's still a squad player. They are, but I think... I mean, everyone's a squad player. But a squad player is someone who can give you all sorts at various stages of the season based on what you need. Well, I think Freddie's clear enough.

41:47Luke Moore: I think Freddie's let himself down. Well, he's made it into the running order. Don't email again, Freddie. Shame on the rest of you. No, no, no. You don't know anything thinking about arses today. Arsenal, though. Yeah, maybe you'll get some more arses for tomorrow. Quite possibly. Hopefully. But I think we've got a fit. I mean, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has definitely won. Nicky Butt. Yes. At Manchester United. Yeah. Covers arses as well. We've had a butt. We've had a butt. What about Jermaine Defoe at England? Oh, absolutely. Oh. And you know what? Hang on, absolutely? No, because I think Jermaine Defoe might actually be the player with the most goals off the bench in Premier League history.

42:21Luke Moore: But he said it at England. He did say that, but I'd I'd kind of jumped in before that I'm just testing and adapting Jim's sorry Marcus what was it I'm just having a conversation with Jim at the moment well you are now because I'm disgusted yeah no I think Defoe's absolutely in there to me Defoe was a starter though was he not he scored the most goals off the bench in Premier League history well I mean listen to the stats yeah yeah yeah yeah alright I mean he obviously scored a lot of goals so that's it I suppose you could argue that that's a kind of statistical quirk I would also say I would also say that I think that in retrospect, Jermaine Defoe probably didn't quite get the respect he deserved as a player.

43:03And I think if you look at the longevity of his career in terms of appearances and goals, you're talking about hundreds of goals. Invariably, you're mostly at the top level and you're talking about an amazing amount of appearances, which is probably quite an overlooked part of being a top player. 763 senior appearances as a striker. And the one thing you realise about strikers quite quickly is if they stop scoring, they disappear. They go down the levels. And he ended up in League One for a bit, I think. But he's playing for Rangers for a while before that as well. He was a deadly finisher. He's a brilliantly quick-minded and quick physically player as well.

43:47He had a huge impact off the bench. if I'm thinking in my mind of say classic Premier League subs Defoe's got to be in there

43:54Luke Moore: but for who though because he was a starter at Portsmouth he was more often way more often than a starter at Spurs I would have thought well you say that at Portsmouth but he was the wasted years he was a starter at Portsmouth to an extent and that's what I mean by that is he comes to Portsmouth halfway for a season right and he plays a fair amount he only stayed for one more season after that and he didn't start 38 Premier League games he probably started two thirds of the games maybe even less than that and then he goes back to Spurs so it's hard to say Spurs was his big move he was a better player than Portsmouth it's amazing for Portsmouth to get a player that level but don't get that confused with the fact that he was the first name on the team sheet every game because he wasn't possibly for injury or whatever for a brief time Jack Grealish at England was sort of threatening wasn't he he was the one in Euros but it's too brief that was certainly his role for a while I think James Milner though at Man City and Liverpool Solskjaer for lasting impact definitely I would say Teddy Sheringham as well a little bit of England too you know super sub and then Manchester United as I say wasn't always a starter but they used him a lot this is another one where people can get in touch with their own it tends to be for obvious reasons more attacking players really but not exclusively though I suppose I mean what about he may not agree with I'm trying to think of starts but I was thinking like Martin Keown at a time in Arsenal was maybe not a starter no but he was a really really handy option and played a decent amount of games.

45:20Luke Moore: There was that famous story, wasn't there, where he needed a certain amount of appearances to get a medal, and he was about to be brought on, but Ray Parler started warming up just to make him think that he wasn't going to get on. One thing I would say about Martin, he's a very, very boring afternoon speaker. I imagine so. Imagine so. He's also got a tiny head. Really? Yeah. Huh. Surprising. I thought it would be huge. But yeah, he was a very useful option within the defensive unit, which is an underrated quality, isn't it? someone who can kind of slot in and keep it consistent. Yeah. We could be here just naming lots of other players, I think.

45:54Luke Moore: I think we've given you a... This is a great question people can put in the YouTube comments rather than that racist and abusive stuff they normally do. So just do that on the YouTube. Our listeners don't do that, do they? You get drive-bys. Drive-bys, yeah. Jim, you got the last one, haven't you? Go on, Jim. I do. And it is from Tom Chissenden. Pleasing name. It's great, isn't it? Tom says, Your section on New Zealand has reminded me of my favourite name in sport. All-Black Swinger Leicester, Ophir, Key Wales, Twickenham, Fanger and Nuku. Beauty. And that's probably why Tom is aware of how good his own name is.

46:22Luke Moore: Yeah, exactly. I'm safe asking this. He's an authority on this. So named because his father played for Tonga in the 1999 Rugby World Cup. One of the games was played at Welford Road in Leicester. Tau named his son after the city in honour of their win over Italy. Wales was used as one of his middle names as the hosts. And Twickenham was named, obviously, after Twickenham Stadium, where Tonga were due to play the next match. What is your favorite name in sport or general life? Yeah. So, I mean, it's a really good story, by the way. I didn't know about that. To me, if you're going to go for incredible names in sport, the first port of call is the NFL.

46:58Right. The NFL has incredible names. And I would also say that it's worth pointing out, I think it was Danny Kelly who used to do a phone-in quiz, which was English Village or NFL player.

47:13Luke Moore: It was incredibly hard. Like, much harder than you think. Can you give us some examples? Yeah, Ha Ha Clinton Dicks. Wow. That's got to be a name. Ha Ha Clinton Dicks. I thought you were doing the quiz, sorry. I wasn't doing the quiz. I'm not going to steal another man's quiz. I'm very passionate about my quizzes. Okay. De Bricashaw Ferguson is quite a famous one. Oh, right. There's loads. That's great. Kool-Aid McKinstry. Numbers are always crazy. Kool-Aid. Yeah. Wow. a number the third or something oh yeah that's always pleasing as well I'm a big fan of that I think his son's breaking into football now as well isn't he there was a NFL what was he I think he was running back maybe called Webster Slaughter which is a good name I think he might be the wide receiver actually there was of course the former Belgian international Mark Demand Mark Demand's great Wolfgang Wolf yeah of course there was a former Indian international called Climax Lawrence that's excellent that's a lovely one can I interest you in pork chop Womack you can and a 1950s player apparently in the NFL called Buzz Nutter Buzz Nutter that's excellent yeah I mean possibly the silliest football name I found when looking into this was Credence Clearwater Kuto yeah that's great and Danger Fourpence who were Danger Fourpence back in the day oh Danger Fourpence yes where's Credence from he's Africa I think he's from some African country yeah yeah I mean these are all very well but the winner is of course Brian Penis yeah great I quite like Sidney Sam Sidney Sam's great sounds like a detective Sidney Sam by the way he retired a few years ago last played at Antalaspor in Turkey in 2021 because he played for Bayer Leverkusen for a bit he looked quite good a few caps for Germany and then he kind of sort of dropped off a bit and played lowly but those older or longer Ramble listeners will remember our love for Sidney Sam oh absolutely yeah I'll leave you with this one Neville Neville great not a player though Just in general life, he says.

49:08Oh, true, yeah. Equinemius St. Brown. Oh, yeah. It's just great. Equinemius. Yeah.

49:15Luke Moore: Is it Latin for name? Yeah. Big ek you'd go with, wouldn't you? It's a great nickname. So there's a book by George Plimpton, one of the great sports writers, called Paper Lion, about his time spent with the Detroit Lions as a journalist. And he trained with them and played an exhibition game with them. It's a classic piece of sports writing. And within that Detroit Lions team is a guy called Dick Night Train Lane, who is this most terrifying tackler in NFL-like history. And that was back in the day when the rules were quite relaxed about brutality. And he had basically this special move where if anyone had the ball and he was near them and he would just completely take them out, and he used to call it his Night Train necktie.

49:54That's right.

49:55Luke Moore: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he was married to, he might even be married to Dina Washington, the great jazz singer as well. I quite like a Fuchs, Christian Fuchs, of course, saw Argel Fuchs in Brazil. Great headline when he left Brazil to go to manage in Portugal for a brief stint. Fuchs off to Portugal. Writes itself, everybody. There you go. But the mailbag doesn't write itself. You write it with your questions. So please do send your responses, opinions, and questions for next week's mailbag and subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your pods. But thank you very much for listening to the Football Ramble Mailbag, part of the ACAS Creator Network.

50:31Luke Moore: I'll be back with Jim and Pete tomorrow. See you then.

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