Mailbag: Who can - and should - actually host a World Cup?

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2:40It's Walmart built for your business. Sign up for a free Walmart business account today at business.walmart.com. this episode is sponsored by ZocDoc have you been putting off a doctor's appointment or need a dentist and you don't know where to start we've definitely been there and that's why we use ZocDoc actually over the holidays Michael had a dental emergency and seemingly every office was closed but we hopped onto ZocDoc found an in-network dentist had great reviews saw real-time appointments available, which was key. It was on New Year's Day and booked an appointment in just minutes. It took so much of the stress out of the already stressful situation.

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4:27That's right everybody, you heard us It's the Mailbag and it's Tuesday. We're changing up our schedule for the summer and we'll now be releasing Mailbag episodes every Tuesday and a very special game makes its return on Fridays. But more of that to come later this week. So that's it, Jim. You feeling good about the Mailbag on Tuesdays? Yeah, and it feels like it's Saturday to me, but that's no bad thing. No bad thing at all. But you've made it to work. Exactly. Yeah, as you always did. I'm surprised. Well, I come in by accident on Saturday quite often. You're just never here to see it. True enough.

4:56Well, if you want to get involved with the Mailbag, You can tweet us on x at Football Ramble, message us on Instagram and Blue Sky, also at Football Ramble. Email us, show at footballramble.com, and of course, patron people, you can get involved in the Discord, and everyone can leave a comment over on our YouTube channel. Right then! Oh, this is a big question from Richard Lennard, who emailed us this. On a recent pod, you discussed how the upcoming and most recent hosts of the World Cup all have reasons against them for hosting the tournament. The US, political and climate issues. Qatar, alleged human rights violations and climate, the same with Saudi Arabia.

5:34Russia, political issues. Given the overall cost of hosting the tournament and the size of the tournament going forward, realistically, what countries can afford to host the tournament where it won't end up as a white elephant, like Portugal during Euro 2004 and Brazil during World Cup 2014, while also not being politically problematic? he goes on to ask do you think that multi-country bids from smaller nations are the only solution going forward even as far as Euro 2020's model across the continent or do you think a fundamental change to global tournaments is required and if so what it's a big question it's a great question as well thank you Richard for getting in touch it is a really genuinely fascinating question isn't it because the nature of the awarding of tournaments itself has changed not not just so much the sort of destinations, it's become a very, very political thing.

6:25It always seems to be for some kind of shadowy reason we're not fully aware of. Sports watching and all that? Well, absolutely. It's corrupt, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. And under Blatter, he did say that he wanted to take the game around the world. And I think, as flawed as Blatter was, I think there was truth in that. He was very passionate about taking the world up to Africa. I think it was a good thing they managed to get it out there obviously South Africa is one of those places with lots of those white elephant stadiums so I feel like this probably should be a return for a little while at least to countries that already have the infrastructure and I know with the expansion of the World Cup that limits those further and you're probably there aren't going to be many countries where nothing is built to accommodate a tournament like this particularly as I say with the ever-expanding side of the tournament because I think and this is, I acknowledge that this is naive, but football and FIFA positions football as something that is a catalyst for positive change and for an example of just general sort of goodness in the world.

7:38And there is a sense that there's a fast fashion feel to a lot of tournaments now with stadiums that come up and in some cases come down again or the capacities are reduced or they essentially just sit there being just not used at all. And it feels very, very wasteful. We're at a point in human history where we need to be careful with that. We need to stop just kind of creating things for the sake of it and being quite wasteful in that sense. So I think for a time, would it be the worst thing in the world if you look at France and you look at Germany? And the US is an example of it because they do have the infrastructure there.

8:16Brazil, you know, obviously Brazil has its issues with stadiums and the state they're in. Yeah, but it's a really, really interesting question because actually when you start drilling down into it, there aren't that many countries where you think, yeah, you could do a tournament tomorrow. And it does feel to me like we need to return to that.

8:38Marcus Speller: Yeah, I suppose to Richard's other point about countries that are politically problematic, I suppose more and more, I think it feels like there are fewer and fewer countries that would fit the brief of a having the infrastructure, but not having the political history. Yeah, I think it's tricky when you get into the politics. Yeah, sure. It's really tricky. It is. And I think we shouldn't be afraid of doing so. But at the same time, I don't necessarily think there is a remedy in that getting smaller countries together to put on these tournaments. so we don't have these problems. Because actually, you know, depending where you're from, you can have a few issues with what Portugal historically has been up to and that kind of stuff.

9:21This is what I mean. Yeah. Well, the difference though is that let's take Morocco and Saudi Arabia, which are two countries that members of the LGBT community would not necessarily feel safe in. That's present, isn't it? That's something that actually where they might be unsafe in the duration of the tournament rather than something that's kind of historical. So I think that is something you have to look at that and go, well, that's not right. Well, I think that's, to me, that's the only thing where FIFA can sort of step in. I think the whole, the political stuff, we spoke about the US and how people are being sort of detained.

10:01What the numbers are, I don't know, but it's quite alarming when you hear that about the US. but I don't think currently you know I think anyone can guess my thoughts on the current administration in the US I think it would be madness to say you can't have a World Cup because you voted for that guy personally and this is where it gets really tricky because then are you saying Gianni Infantino your politics should be this and everyone in FIFA you should to me that's just a mind for when you can't do it yeah

10:28Marcus Speller: I know what you mean and I think I actually think people agree with that yeah and I think as well how we think or I say we again not everyone thinks how the three of us think in London in England blah blah blah you get the picture you know to say to someone from the other side of the world well I'm not sure of that leader but let me finish this where FIFA I think can step in is what you guys were just touching on there and you say if you don't create a tournament where everybody's welcome and everybody's safe and then people don't die making the stadium which is crucial I was going to come on to that yeah then you can't have it.

11:05That's fair. I think that is where FIFA could jump in. If FIFA say, well, you're not really economically liberal enough or actually your minimum wage isn't, you can't get into all that. And I know they're sort of slightly, you know. FIFA do have that sort of power, but they're so incompetent in some ways that they allow countries to wield it rather than them using it themselves. I mean, yeah, and the corruption allegations and findings speak for themselves. But, you know, if you look at the previous ones, I mean, Qatar, when you're talking about waste and all that, I mean, they had to build all those stadiums and it was such an enormous project.

11:48You then, if you're FIFA, you have to say, and this is where I think they can also step in politically, you have to say, right, well, what is your, well, how are you going to do this? Because it's such an enormous project. Because how many people died? hundreds, thousands of people died. An absolute disgrace. But, I mean, disgrace is not even close. There isn't really a word. There isn't a word. It's a tragedy would be the closest thing. And that was the real kind of thing about that Qatar World Cup before a ball had even kicked. You know, it was, anyway, we can go over old ground. And sorry, I'll try and get back to this.

12:23I know what you mean, Jim, when you were saying about, you know, if you have the infrastructure, but then it becomes a bit of a closed shop. Well, this is the other problem, isn't it? And this is why it's so tricky. because to say to other countries, no, no, no, no, you've got crap stadiums, you've not got enough, you can't do it. They go, well, hang on a minute. If we get investment and they could argue it that way. You have to, if a country does stuff, say take Brazil, if they go, no, no, no, we're going to do this and they built the stadiums and they improved everything. Again, if you're FIFA, to sort of go, no, I'm not having that.

12:52I'm not sure that's your call, if you see what I mean. You've got to have guarantees that it's going to be good and it's going to be this. In terms of that country's finances and so on, that's not that's not open for the bid if you see what I mean

13:03Marcus Speller: but do you not it's so tricky though but the the problems that arose out of South Africa would have been avoidable had FIFA just been a bit more on hand with everything from the World Cup yes instead of just like right you build the stadium brilliant good enough yeah so they need to be a bit more hands on maybe yeah but almost like help the transition of kind of moving from right we'll we'll take charge here to okay here's what you need to do. We'll check in with you every once in a while over the next decade or so to make sure these things are ticking over. But here's what you need to do to maintain, you know, everything that you've put in place for our benefit here.

13:39Marcus Speller: There is a process, apparently, when people go. I mean, you remember some of the FIFA delics going over to Qatar going, well, I haven't seen any human rights issues. So, you know... No, no, I mean afterwards. I mean afterwards. Oh, so like a legacy sort of thing? Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, okay, yeah. So that's, yeah, you need to sort of tighten up and... Maybe not so much like London 2012-y, but kind of like that. So in that example, not necessarily the Olympic Stadium, but if you actually look at the things around it, whether it's the velodrome or the swimming centre or the aquatic centre, all that stuff has a bit of legacy behind it and is still used to this day.

14:12I think it's incredibly difficult. If you've got Soccer City Stadium in Johannesburg, which is, what, 70 ,000 or 80 ,000, whatever the capacity, how do you hope everybody turns up and watches your National League? You don't even have to go that far. Portugal, 2004, you had these massive... stadiums built and only a handful of teams maintaining that, I suppose. So I think it's incredibly difficult. And to give you an example of how things have changed over the years and why these conversations are really, really quite pertinent now is in the 1998 World Cup, France hosted it. And France can host a massive tournament, as they have done a few times since.

14:53The country that missed out by five votes to them to host that tournament was Morocco. now Morocco will be a host at the 2030 World Cup along with Spain and Portugal I know there's a few matches in South America but they're the main hosts and you kind of go oh right yeah okay in the Euros in 2028 it'll be the UK and Ireland that are hosting it and I think that's what you're going to see we've seen it before Belgium and the Netherlands Ukraine and Poland and I think Japan and South Korea and I think you're going to have to do that because of the expanded bloody so many more games and teams now.

15:28It's the practical thing to do, isn't it? Totally. And I think actually that does lead to some potentially quite fun scenarios. We've got this strange scenario in Euro 2032 of Italy and Turkey. That's what I'm saying. Which is kind of weird. I didn't see that one coming up. Turkey probably could host a tournament on its own, you would think. Big, huge country. Lots of infrastructure there already. Because football's so massive. But do they fancy it? And that's the other thing. That's the other issue. Is that when you see all this... I mean, look, I personally thought China were going to get the 2034 World Cup.

15:58And clearly, they've thought to themselves, with regard to the political stuff, my take would be is that they've looked at what happened with Qatar with a lot of journalists asking very important questions and a lot of negative press, even though they've got a lot of positive stuff from other places. And I think they've probably thought, I don't think we fancy that. Honestly, that would be, you know, I'm sure other people have said that as well. You know, it's maybe not the hottest of takes, but that's what you would think. But if you start going on about, which country is rich enough, which country is big enough, who's got the infrastructure, you whittle it down quite a lot and then it becomes like it used to be very Eurocentric.

16:32And to go back to old Blatter, I think there was a purity about what you wanted to do. Just generally you think that, don't you? You think he was just a squeaky clean individual. I will defend that man no more. But no, I think that, you know, taking... He can't help you now, can he? Taking the world cover around the globe, there is, I get it. There's a romance to it. There is a romance to it.

17:27Trump and co. could be impeached, or there could be election. I know there won't be before, but you know what I mean? So that sort of stuff, I think you've got to be incredibly careful. And I don't think FIFA have an appetite at all, and I kind of understand to a very obvious extent why, but there are definitely things that they have to put in place because they have enough examples now. Or really, the Qatar example is there. Is this going to be safe for everybody? are we going to have because you know you can't have a World Cup where you kind of as you say people think well hang on a minute here and are we going to have human rights violations which are just off the chart for this kind of thing it's a shame that that bar which should be so low just hasn't been cleared so frequently if we can kind of address another part of the question about places that you you can see a World Cup happening in the future I think there's a couple of potentially exciting ones Australia have wanted it for a while and I think that would be really really interesting I think that would be great completely different part of the world and it would have to be during our summer so it's not as warm there and maybe England players calendar wise that's great as well isn't it?

18:38Marcus Speller: yeah exactly from a selfish perspective I want it more in the southern hemisphere for that reason and Australia do sport brilliantly well they do I've not been there but you don't need to go there to know that so I think that's a perfect perfect host Australia a Nordic contingent as well again you'd probably have to have Norway Sweden and Finland here we go take a jumper in the summer though do you know what though I don't think they'd have the stadiums for it even across the country not the kind of size of stadium there isn't one stadium in I wouldn't have thought that there's many or any stadium which is sort of 60 ,000 plus capacity they might have to get a building and this is the problem isn't it And if there is, sorry, there's an oversight there, but yeah, and that's what I mean, it's very, very difficult.

19:26I think a British bid, or if it goes well, a British and Irish one, I think the Euros would be great in 2028 there. But again, you're going back to Europe and so on. I mean, other than Australia, where we haven't seen it before, it really is a difficult one. Yeah, although I suppose part of that comes from how you don't want to repeat tournaments. I'm sure, you know, surely Mexico could host it on their own. I'm very passionate that Mexico is the most World Cup country, of course. Not with 48 teams, though, Jim. No, maybe not. Maybe not. You couldn't have it. And I think Richard is saying, you know, the multi-country bids, you could have like an Eastern European one with a number of countries around there.

20:13What needs to happen is that FIFA need to build their own country in the sea. Now we're talking. and that will float around the world and it will be a football country basically just for World Cups and you use that every time.

20:24Marcus Speller: Yeah, but you only use it when it's outside the sun. When it's on the Northern Hemisphere essentially. It's very much a night time. Sorry, Southern Hemisphere. Southern Hemisphere summers. I thought you meant just in the middle. It's a sleepy World Cup. It's at like two in the morning but like local time. Yeah, right. Great question, Richard. I'm sure a lot of people have big opinions on that. So hopefully we managed to answer it somewhat satisfactory. All right, let's have a quick break and then more of your questions.

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24:23Yeah, and I know we're not experts. You know, we're not doctors. We're not scientists. but welcome out everybody so on the last episode of the mailbag we had a great chat about which players we think will define the 2020s when the decade is over and smiley face followed up on X saying similar to the question around marquee players of the decade do you see anybody other than Pep Guardiola and Carlo Ancelotti as the standout managers for the 2020s it's a good question I mean Carlo is very much you know it's been a Carlo straddles the decades doesn't he yeah exactly as does Guardiola really so I don't know if that'll be seen as his best period I mean maybe although I mean Milan Carlo even though he wasn't as successful is the one I would tend to kind of starry eyed for the Ancelotti heads yeah exactly but Guardiola I mean again he's a stand up manager whichever decade he's operated in which is currently two Luis Enrique three really three yeah sorry Luis Enrique I would say Luis Enrique as well especially now that he's obviously recently won that second treble which tells its own story yeah because I think with the first treble people will look at Messi, Suarez and Neymar unfairly very unfairly your team were only good because of the players innit seems harsh they were good players so yeah I think people don't look at the manager for that one in the same way they would look at Guardiola despite his amazing side.

25:59I think that was a fallacy though. And I think we're now seeing the truth of that. Okay. That Enrique is obviously, he's a top tier elite manager. Because he could be at PSG for a few years now and they really could, the next two or three years, they could win back-to-back Champions League or they could do stuff that we've never seen them do before. So I think, and as well, just how impressive they were. That final performance against Inter, that goes down in history as one of the best performances it's the highest scoring isn't it magnificent win Champions League era history era yes so I think he'd be the only one really I would think can you put Klopp in there or do you think his achievements were sort of stacked towards the last decade 2010s I would say with Klopp and he is one of the defining managers of that period but for me yeah even he achieved stuff in the 2020s for me vintage Klopp back then.

26:55Simeone? Just the stubbornness? No. The barnacle-like quality of just sticking around? Yeah, again, 2010s for me. I think that it's, the decade is, we're halfway through it. And as I say, other than the renaissance of Carlo Ancelotti and Pep Guardiola sort of carrying on doing his thing and winning a treble with Man City, I think that's the difference. I think, again, Guardiola, I would look at the 2010s as his kind of golden period. But having won that treble with Man City, he's one of the defining managers of that decade as well or this decade I'm going to throw a name in there at you Mikel Arteta not Mikel Arteta Roy Hodgson not Roy Hodgson either there was a time where Nathan Jones' Luton Tanna the best XG in Europe and that has to cap for something does it not?

27:39it has to be I mean I was going to say

27:42Marcus Speller: he had to be Alonso but Nathan Jones works as well yeah I mean Alonso's achievements are incredible okay there you go that's an answer it's frustrating that they only lost one game in that season season and it was obviously the but he's got the other half of the decade to do things with Real Madrid doesn't he? I actually read this question more as someone who could put an imprint on the game not necessarily collect a lot of trophies and so while I had Alonso as my answer I was also wondering if actually when you manage Real Madrid if you are influential in that way, I don't think you are I think you're basically picking up trinkets and they boost legacy of the team the players and the manager without necessarily affecting like how football is played you don't really go into trends I see like what Enrique's doing at PSG is like not a trend setting but he's taking an existing trend and elevating it to a certain degree yes obviously there's you know Guardiola's work speaks for itself Antelotti similarly with the Real Madrid thing is a little bit different because it's you're like you're a calming influence in a you know in an organisation that's quite chaotic you know you're the if Tim from the office was in succession that's Ancelotti at Real Madrid yeah but yeah so with Alonso I was thinking yeah like has a trophy can do the back end and will obviously spill over into you know that next decade in terms of like another manager there's some like this is a much lower level don't say Ange no but I I think if someone like you know we had this conversation before about English managers and how there aren't many, there aren't any elite English managers, but there is a generation of like young, up and coming English or British manager.

29:35Marcus Speller: And I'm not necessarily saying that they're going to make waves by the end of the decade, but I think the conversation might change a little bit between now and then, whereby someone like, if you go really low down, someone like Will Still will be given like a big job. Someone like Kieran McKenna, might be similarly given a big job or something like Eddie Howe in the next couple of years. Yeah, that's what I mean. Locally in the Premier League because of the size of the league they have big jobs. You could say Will Steele wouldn't be maybe local to a few places. Yeah, sure. But yes, I know what you mean.

30:10I mean Howe has grown with Newcastle very, very impressively and he does seem like he will inevitably be the England manager one day in the way that it's been a long time since an English manager has felt that way you're kind of scraping around a little bit but yeah absolutely I think is in it and I also think Antonio Conte has won Serie A with Inter and with Napoli in this decade and obviously the majority of his success again came in the previous decade but I think that he's managed to do that with two separate teams possibly puts him in that conversation as well I wonder if the Spalletti renaissance though with Napoli would trump Conte That would be nice

30:50Marcus Speller: because that is a great example of someone who has done it in two different eras. Yeah, I mean, that's quite nice. In terms of international football, I think if they go on and really do something, i.e. win the next World Cup, I think Luis de la Fuente could be that. And I might argue that Lionel Scaloni, the Argentina manager. Unfashionable. Indeed, but Argentina had not won the Copa America. A South American team had not won the World Cup to a point where it was starting to get a bit desperate. Yeah, because Brazil clearly was struggling. Hence, they've turned to Ancelotti. So Messi wins the World Cup under Scaloni, who, again, emotionally just channeled all of that incredible passion, raw emotion into that tournament and wins it.

31:38And has won a couple of Copa Americas, which is no mean feat, by the way. And Argentina went a long time without winning it, of course. So he could be, again, in this country. He has to be. Yeah, he has to be. you've got to think broader haven't you it's difficult to try and get as I say we're talking sort of local and more internationally so I think I think there's some answers there because with Scaloni and De La Fuente as well the reason why I think they might be more relevant than you might initially think is because we're seeing as we mentioned in a previous pod it might have even been on the mailbag as well the club manager going into international football those two are great examples of no, no, no, you've got to be the international manager.

32:19That's your job. And, you know, obviously England went close with Southgate and those two give a great argument for that is you're not a club manager, you're an international manager. You know, you're your football association's man kind of thing. Excellent. Vish, you've got the next question.

32:35Marcus Speller: I do, and it comes from Tom Chittenden. On the topic of bad commentary, which seems to be at an all-time high at the moment, I was wondering what your favourite commentary teams were and your standout moment from them. You could also add your least favourite teams, but I could hazard a guess who those are. Yeah, I mean, I'll go first. Barry Davis and Trevor Brookin. Yeah, that was mine. Same, it was mine as well. And it's just a generational thing, but it's also a scarcity thing, isn't it? Part of the reason there's so much more, or it feels like there's more bad commentary around, is because there is simply so much more coverage of football now.

33:08So, so many commentators. And football used to be a treat when you saw it kind of live on TV, especially if you didn't have Sky as well. and yeah, the tones of Barry Davis. I find myself thinking the phrase, oh, Pat Bonner. It comes into my head all the time. No, it's not. It's a phrase to me. If I open the cupboard and something drops out of it, even if it's not my fault or I make some clumsy mistake, I'm like, oh, Pat Bonner in my own mind. And it's just from that little moment and again, the scarcity. Because he gets, what Barry Davis was amazing at was he was in that moment. It's not, oh my goodness, what?

33:45I mean, that would be fine. Like, again, it's not saying that commentators who didn't say that line or didn't do it like that are bad commentators at all. And to go, oh, what an error from Pat Bonner. He's cost them dearly and now they're tuned. It's the emotion of the feeling. Exactly. Indeed, he's almost completely entwined with the action. It's that emotional level that he's got. Pat Bonner spilled a shot in a World Cup game. In USA 94? for Ireland Wim Jonk hit the shot it was an easy one and he just let it slip through his fingers a really bad error and it cost Ireland dearly and they went out in the second round yes for those who are wondering what on earth that was although I'm sure a lot of people do but again with Barry Davies I've said it before and I'll bloody well say it again the Dennis Bergkamp goal against Argentina beautiful Oh Waraga!

34:32You know and it was I mean the Dutch commentary on that was brilliant as well that inspired quite a few brilliant ones but yeah the emotion of that because again you don't sometimes you don't need the stat heavy, oh, what a goal by Bergham, it's his fourth guy, and all that kind of stuff. What is the emotion that you're trying to get into? And obviously, these are huge moments. It's a big deal. So you don't need to be formal about it, is how it feels, right? Yeah. And to be fair, I mean, I thought that Martin Tyler was a good commentator. Yeah, I think... It became quite, not fashionable, but it became easy to bash him.

35:04But as he got older, he did become a bit more kind of dodder-y, I suppose, is the phrase. But it's difficult. I'm going to say it. Don't say it. Don't do it. No, no, no, no. No! It was a bit. No.

35:18Marcus Speller: Mike Diner and Andy Gray worked as a pair. They did. Get out. I'll be honest with you. This is not me. Andy Gray is... Didn't I tell you I had doubts about him? I know he is a bellend, but they worked as a commentary duo. I understand that you can, you know, you can separate the art from the artist. But Gray was excellent in that kind of second role. I'm not just saying this to try and sound all cool. The conversations that you used to make up in players' head? Yeah, that was annoying. I'm getting there. I'm heading this way. Actually, you know what? You were talking me out of your own point. Exactly.

35:50I never cared for Andy Gray, I'll be honest. Really? Okay. Not really. No. I understand why some might. It was a different time and blah, blah, blah.

35:59Marcus Speller: But Andy Gray with Martin Tyler. Yes. I'm not saying that as in like, oh, I miss Andy Gray. So with Andy Gray, I understand, again, that was the soundtrack of a lot of people's footballing viewing. And if you like it, fine. I do get it all sort of joking aside I used to find him a bit annoying yeah fine but I recognised that he was a good co-commentator that's just a stylistic issue that I wasn't in for if you see what I mean just on the question that I do want to pick up Tom on is there's a lot of bad commentary well bad commentary seems at an all time high because of the like showcased Premier League games on Sky or TNT and the European games as well there are loads of really good commentators out there I think of Matt Davies Adams who does a lot of Chelsea TV but he also does a few bits here and there I've seen him on, I think he's brilliant Adam Somerton who does a lot of the Serie A on TNT, he's brilliant there's, I think his name is Seb Hutchinson this guy's thoughts commentator he's class, there are loads of brilliant commentators out there Dora McNamara's brilliant before we even go into radio there are loads of great commentators out there that you just don't really see them.

37:11It's a stylistic issue that I think you're talking about. If you were a commentator, you're obviously very competent.

37:16Marcus Speller: Yeah, sorry, very quickly, we spoke about how what companies seem to think we want from commentary has changed and therefore it's changed and we don't like it. You know, like the podcast thing. Old men podcast that cloud. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Like that is grating. But generally, I think like around the houses, there are some really good commentators out there. Well, in the 2018 World Cup, was it John Murray? Or John Champion, sorry, with Ali McCoyst. Yes, and that was lovely as well. So they became a little bit of a kind of double act, didn't they? That people were very sort of fond of. And they did some stuff on Prime as well, so you didn't hear them that much.

37:50And it felt like a little bit of a treat. So I've actually got access to the longer version of Tom's email. And he said within that, personally, as a 25-year-old, I grew up on Clive Tildesley on Champions League nights. And Wayne Rooney scored a goal versus Roma in a 7-1 win that is burned in my brain, etc., etc., etc. So he is someone who has very fond memories of Clive Tilsley. And there's been a lot of revisionism about Clive Tilsley because he was obviously ITV's main commentator for the Champions League. So he was very, very present. Everybody knew Tilsley. And people were really mean about him all the time.

38:23Yes. Like almost universally. That magical night in Barcelona, Lionel used to trot out where he'd basically talk about Man United winning the Champions League in 1999 as often as possible. and he did used to do that quite a bit. But actually now, lots of people are like, oh, he's an all-time great. He's one of the best ever to do it. And I find it really, really interesting how that's changed. And with Met Clive, he's a lovely guy. The level of prep he goes into is absolutely mad and we're seeing that now because he's kind of opened that up on social media and shows how he does it. And he's obviously an amazing, amazing commentator.

38:57And I find it interesting that people are kind of harking back to that while forgetting that at the time, You know, people just constantly criticised him. It's kind of an oasis arc, isn't it? Yeah, sort of. So, Tildo, get yourself out into those stadiums. That magical night at Nedworth. Don't call him Tildo.

39:17Tildo. Why is that the thing? The Tildo brothers.

39:24Of all the things that's said in the studio, you let go. That is the thing you picked me up on.

39:29Marcus Speller: He's over love. He's showing us his prep, Tildo. just well I agree with you and I think that just people often moan you know again you know it's like Jim Clive Tills he might have well there's familiarity but he also may well have said something which was slightly critical of a big team that a lot of people support in this country and it may well have been fair comment it might not have been I don't know it's a little opinion and boom that he's his name is mud to all those supporters. But Tilsley, though, again, going back to the kind of overkill of commentators because Peter Drury is one who was very popular when he was often on, you'd see Europa League highlights.

40:10Because it's an occasional treat. Exactly, it's an occasional treat. And now people say, oh, I'm not... I think Drury's a good commentator. But with Tilsley, that was it. You know, with the Champions League nights, they were once every two weeks for a few month period and that was often where you would hear him. And, you know, people hark about it. Oh, actually, no, maybe that was quite good Tilde also used to make a noise when a really really good goal like smacked in the back and he'd go ahhh like that and again that was the kind of the emotion of it and I agree with you I think with commentators I think some people can be a bit harsh and they don't know what they've got until it's gone but there are a few styles that I would say nowadays that I wouldn't mind to see the back of I would also say for the Club World Cup yesterday for PSG against Atletico Madrid the co-commentator was Rob Green, who's one of those players who famously didn't actually really watch football, have much interest in it, and he is far superior to Rio Ferdinand.

41:09Far superior. I think it's time for a break. See you in a minute.

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43:47Danny has been in touch on X and he asks, for your own teams, which of your goalkeepers would you play outfield and which outfield player would you put in goal? Can be current or X players. Get Jordan Pickford on the pitch as an England fan. Get him out on pitch. Where are you playing him? Everywhere. Come on. I would play him. up front yeah because I think he's got a good shot got that left foot on him yeah he would be chatting away to those centre-offs oh he'd be a nightmare he'd be like Jamie Vardy he would be like Vardy he would be I think he'd be quick as well off the shoulder of the last man cannon of a left foot pick foot up front pick up a lot of cards yes

44:24Marcus Speller: yeah I don't mind that what about Andre and Arna yeah come on the first name that sprung to mind was Fabian Bartos oh yeah he was a very good ball-playing goalkeeper As Thierry Henry found out, there were teammates at France. Yeah. He also passed him the ball. Yeah, he made a couple of mistakes. Definitely by the end, he made loads of mistakes. He was a great goalkeeper. He was a brilliant goalkeeper. And I think we remember those mistakes. I mean, I've just done it. Yeah, you know what? Barthes himself said of this exact situation where he'd get criticism for stuff like that, I should have been an outfield player because they don't get the same kind of microscopic attention to a mistake.

44:56And I love the confidence of him saying that. How many goalkeepers are that confident that they could have played outfield at the top level? it would have been more confident if you said after I won the World Cup I should have become an outfield the only thing I liked

45:09Marcus Speller: about going in goal is occasionally you should go to the go behind the goal and have a piss yeah which he did Mad Jens Lehmann yeah exactly Lehmann is like a jobbing fullback would be good yeah just like attacking the wingers defence midfielder like a destroyer maybe yeah I mean currently for Arsenal David Rea would certainly play that position very very good with the ball at his feet got a good passing range you have him in a sort of Jorginho role yeah You get some protection in there for him. Who do you have in goal? Six foot four, fond of a dive, Kai Havertz. He's got all the tools. Yeah. I was thinking a little bit more out of the box with this because he's not the tallest.

45:46Adama Troiore. Coming for crosses, he's just cleaning everyone out.

45:50Marcus Speller: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely barren. And also, if someone... Through a defensive line. Yeah. Don't worry, lads, I've got this. Throw on him. Yeah, exactly. Throw on him. He'd probably get more goals. Yeah, that would test the law of the game. He'd just roll it out to himself and run, wouldn't he? Exactly, there's that. And also, if a striker runs through on goal at him, just sprint top speed at the striker, the striker's shit themselves. And he could... How terrifying would that be? He could lob it out, sprint, catch up with his own throw, and then miss it. Yeah. Yeah, has to pass it. My goalkeeping, my outfielder going goal was probably a bit controversial.

46:26Marcus Speller: Wayne Rooney. No, I see that. Rooney was a brilliant goalkeeper in training. Why is that controversial? Because you lose him from being outfield, don't you? No, but you're Rooney now. Even though he's scored the same. Quite the opposite, actually. Quite the opposite. Does he not look agile to you? He scored at Soccer Aid. He's only 5 '9". Rooney! Generally, a very, very good goalkeeper. Oh, getting stuck in. There's loads of clips and... He'd punch a lot of forwards in the head and give penalties away. So he had a reputation of going in goal and getting people to shoot at him and him loving that to the point that I think Sir Alex eventually banned him from doing that because it's just too much of a risk.

47:06Marcus Speller: But also it was the crux of a Nike advert as well. Oh, right. I think it was one of the Jogo Benito ones where he's basically going in goal and then he dribbles like he's in training for Manchester United and then he catches a ball and then dribbles it from one side to the other and scores. Yeah, it's a lovely love and yeah, Sir Alex Ferguson's in the advert as well complaining that he's doing it. but yeah I'd go Rooney because obviously John O'Shea went in goal for Manchester United when yeah I've got people got sent off and there were no subs to be made but yeah Rooney for me how about for England current players going in goal Dan Byrne aren't you the big Dan oh yeah Kyle Walker he's been in goal yeah he's been in goal and he's in the squad and he is a current England player is Jordan Henderson going to have to go I'll go in goal I'll stick around Harry Kane winning goal he did he did he did let one slip under him so he's made up for that though isn't he I think so not for me who would be who would be a terrible Marzaluskelly yeah yeah just going on the height yeah exactly that Sean Mike Phillips I'm picking older players they did say former players that's fine Janinho yeah we'll all settle on I'd say Vettinho but he'd be brilliant wouldn't he he would be yeah yeah you'd like shoot in the top corner and he'd be sat there and be like oh that's mine yeah I thought of Edwin van der Sar playing up top the ex-Fullam Man United goal yeah if you remember him I'm sure you do yeah yeah fine I just wanted to say he played for Fulham as well that's it isn't it you already had a Darmature throwing it to himself that was Jim's idea let's finish with this question from Josh Rowe on Instagram if you could pick one manager from the Premier League to join the Ramble who would it be and why it's actually quite a tough question this but I think a key part of being on this show is a healthy sense of self-deprecation and I think don't say it I knew you were going to say it put me out of the job

49:12Marcus Speller: just so we can like directly use the social content that we end up using yeah yeah it's too much we've said yeah exactly we've relayed so much so many of his quotes just say it Just look down the barrel and say it. Say it again, but slower. I did think about this and I was like, it's not easy. I think Thomas Frank might be a bit of a laugh. A bit punchy. I think Frank's a really, really good shout. I think him and Luke going at it would be quite enjoyable. I think Frank would probably be quite funny, which we obviously desperately need. Take a drill down into that a little bit. What about, talk to me about Vita Pereira.

49:50Marcus Speller: I was going to say him. I think he's the best ramble fit, I think. we'd have to record it in the pub though yeah because if a show goes well do we have to go for a pint afterwards because that would be quite draining first the pub then the pints yes indeed I also could listen to Daniel Farker all day oh I forgot about Farker I would want I think my choice would be Pep because he'd be in here fuming they're like football isn't funny serious stop laughing why do you keep bringing up Kevin Keegan what's going on here he'd be livid he'd be like that that school teacher in Beavis and Butthead and we'd be like Beavis and Butthead just giggling and he'd be like shouting at us or he'd like you know he'd see like a rival pod he'd get like Max Rushton around why do you keep posting that video of you in the pub when it's not you you're much better than that like that kind of stuff like you did with Nathan Redmond oh dear I think we should finish there thank you very much for listening to the Football Album Mailbag part of the egg I used to love you in Football Italia what are you doing now it's tough like that I'll be back with Luke and Pete tomorrow how about that because there's more Club World Cup action the air excited he is to not be working with us you've had your fill and so have I please do send your responses opinions and questions for next week's mailbag and subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts see you tomorrow everybody

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