More Chelsea Dagger

0:00In the morning, don't say you love me, I'll only kick you out the door everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble. Palace finally lost and Liverpool lost again. It's Monday, 6th of October. I'm Marcus Speller. And I'm Jim Campbell.

0:24Hello, everybody. Good to have you with us. Better rob them off to start the show. I'm very excited, Jim. It's just you and I. I mean, they say that old-school tactics are coming back with the long throws and all that. Well, I've had enough of having these three and maybe even four men frontline attacks. We're going back to an old-fashioned strike partnership today. Yeah, going really back to basics. Absolutely right. As few people as possible. You get the flick-ons, me old son. Now, if you're enjoying the Football Ramble this season, then why not become a friend of the Ramble? You'll get the Football Ramble and our sister pods on the continent and up front completely ad-free.

0:58And you'll also get access to the marvellous Football Ramble Discord, where you can chat with other listeners. And don't forget, you get a weekly edition of Ramble Uncut 2, our special extended edition of Every Wednesday Ramble, which is available exclusively for our subscribers. Just head to patreon.com forward slash football ramble to find out more. Ramble Uncut or ramble with the trousers down, as some may say. Sometimes. It's varied. It depends what the topic is. Yeah, there's always some item of clothing being removed. Yes. But it's different every time. It is every time. We have to start with Chelsea 2, Liverpool 1.

1:33Chelsea stuffing a Chelsea dagger into the heart of Liverpool right at the end of the game as young Esteval got his goal. My goodness, a great win for the West London team. Yeah, and actually I think that's the right place to start, isn't it? Because the narrative around this has been more about Liverpool losing than it has about Chelsea winning, which is perhaps slightly unfair on them, especially given the sort of last gasp nature of it. Obviously we've seen Liverpool getting these late goals now it's gone the other way against them but I thought Chelsea were excellent value for it. First half in particular they controlled the game incredibly well.

2:10Absolute rocket from Caicedo. It was an absolutely beautiful goal. He's really sort of becoming a really rounded midfielder isn't he? If he can add more goals to his game essentially he's going to be up there as one of the best midfielders in the world. Possibly he's in that conversation at the moment already but he continues in the form that he's been in. He's all action. He's everything that you want from, I'll even go so far as a modern midfield player. You know what I mean? He really is, yeah. They took criticism when they bought him, you know, whenever it was, how long ago it was now for the price tag and so on and so forth.

2:46And you look at him, not just now, it's no surprise that he's put in these performances now because we've seen what he can do. but I think particularly in recent times he has been just such a solid performer and as you say Jim adding I mean if you can add 25 yarders into the top corner to your game that's good for anybody but yeah just a wonderful wonderful player who really is kind of getting his flowers maybe a bit more this season than perhaps he didn't last season for non-Chelsea fans I stress yeah absolutely and a good partnership with Enzo Fernandes as well which is really sort of you know they've had a lot of flux haven't they in that team.

3:23Yes. And there's a lot of change and quite often you wonder if the change is actually for the benefit of the team or for the benefit of the balance sheet. But those two have been consistent in there and I think that is going to be the bedrock of kind of any success that they go on to have this season. So yeah, I think going into this game, because they've had a lot of injuries as well in the defensive department and they've had a couple of performances lately that have been a little bit flat, it was tempting to look at this and wonder if this was an opportunity for Liverpool to just course correct.

3:52but Chelsea stood up and were the you know the protagonist and I suppose the antagonist in this as well in a sense and they really really took the game to Liverpool I thought they controlled it really really well and they didn't get a footballer sent off they didn't no they're you know they've lead by example learned and sort of learned a lesson in there that was amazing I loved that so much it's like Enzo Marescu it's just well one of us has to get sent off yeah otherwise it's not it's not a Chelsea The best thing about it is it's two bookings. I know, I know. How rare is that for a manager? A manager sent off for a second book of books.

4:29Absolutely amazing. While celebrating a last minute winner, it feels really gnarky, doesn't it, to punish that. I know it's in the rules and et cetera, et cetera, and that's just how it goes. But the thing that I think is the most ridiculous about that is that he wasn't allowed to do the post-match interview because he was sent off. And I just think, man, how stupid is that? Let's not pretend that we're better than we are here. The fabric of polite, civilised society is coming apart at the seams, right? So if that's going to happen, can we at least have this bit of it? Can we at least see him in an absolute rage, fuming about why he's been sent off or taking his top off and swirling it around his head celebrating the last minute winner?

5:08We want to see that. We're not better than that. Stop protecting us from ourselves. Why should the broadcasters be punished as well? Indeed. Think of the broadcasters. Think of the virality of those clips. Yeah, I can't... It's what we're here for. You're right. I didn't know that was a thing. I probably should have done by now, but yeah, you've already said it, I think. But yeah, seeing Maresca sprinting down the touchline and joining in the celebrations, that is the kind of thing that makes me hark back to a time in the past because you sometimes see managers and then you know, Mourinho at Old Trafford is a memorable one.

5:42Pretty sure Pep Guardiola did that when Barcelona got that Iniesta late winner or equaliser rather on a weight goal at Stamford Bridge. Yeah, Sam Allardyce was always tying his tie around his head, wasn't he? Yeah, usually in other countries. So way out of his technical area. But anyway, Enzo Maresca kept up the tradition of somebody getting a red card in this Chelsea team and he was sent off. So yeah, lead by example. But they didn't get a man sent off who was on the field, which was the important thing. And it shows what they can do. Yeah, absolutely. And with Esteval getting his first goal for Chelsea, I mean, we know he's a player, hence they signed him.

6:19We saw him in the Club World Cup doing his stuff. He's known as Messinho or Little Messi back in Brazil. I wonder how many Brazilians call him that because they do have plenty of their own that they can go to. But anyway, you get the picture. But he impressed him. He did. I mean, he's been impressive every time I've seen him play for them. And he is not like a sort of promising Brazilian prospect, is he? He is expected to be sort of the next big Neymar-style leading figure in the Brazilian national team. We've heard this before. All I'll say is, I get why you're saying that. He's 18. We've heard this before, but you know.

6:57Yeah. But I mean, these players, they do come to Europe really early now, don't they? Let me look at Vinicius and Rodrigo. They're obviously both at Real Madrid for a long, long time. And Hendricks, obviously, they're now as well. Sadly, for Brazilian football, is the pathway. when you're saying they're going to kind of reach the levels of Neymar and then you mention all of them I mean can they all do it presumably not because there's competition places but you are right to say I mean Neymar himself obviously came slightly later to Europe I think was he 22 maybe something like that you know which sounds crazy but that was a little bit later but Esteveu I think that he's taken to it hasn't he yeah a very different style of the talent is like just seeping out of him isn't it it doesn't even look it's tempting to say a player like that looks like they have raw talent, but it looks honed already.

7:42He's a really, really effective player. He's a player for now, despite him being 18. And I think he's going to be a real bright spot for them and possibly the whole league this season. If he gets the run in the team, he'll probably earn. And there's a lot of competition in those wide places. I mean, how many wide forwards have they got? I mean, when Jamie Gittins came on, I can't remember, he came on against Liverpool there. I was thinking, oh yeah. Like, how much did they pay for him? what a quality young player he is you know you forget that they're stacked in those areas so for Esteval to already have kind of established himself as a starter you would say it's no mean feat yeah absolutely no I mean I don't know if he's quite a starter yet is he but he's certainly knocking on that door and obviously you know Mureska will rotate these players that's the point of having them really isn't it but I think as good as his goal was I think a lot of the credit has to go to Mark Kukurea as well yes Kukurea which I just I can't help but hear that every time I see him yeah that's fair because it wasn't it wasn't their first pop at a last gasp winner, was it?

8:42They had two or three opportunities, particularly down that left-hand side. Obviously, there's been quite a lot of analysis done about Mo Salah not tracking back and creating that space. And I do think with, you know, it's possibly not the best use of Salah's talents to have him kind of mucking in there when you want to use him on the break. So I do understand why Liverpool have kind of gone with that despite the criticism they've had of it. Obviously, it's, you know, cost them here, but he was ploughing that furrow really, really effectively. He's a really good player, Cucurea. I mean, he evokes very strong feelings in everybody.

9:17No one's indifferent to Cucurea. Luke hates him. I know he does, yeah. But, I mean, he's a mad character, isn't he? Just, yeah. But there is a sort of a touch of the calamitous nature about him. But yet, no one falls over more than Mark Cucurea. Yeah. I don't really think he even dives. is that he's just legitimately quite sort of clumsy in some regards and some people can't help themselves when they go near him. So it's like, I just have to knock this man over. I know what you mean. In a different way, but maybe in a sort of similar kind of feel. Like when Sergio Ramos was in his pomp. I don't know.

9:53He was another one playing at the Club World Cup. But in his pomp, he would look like an absolute Rolls Royce as a defender at times. And then other times, you'd look at him and go, yeah, I've seen guys like that in Sunday league. And obviously tons of red cards and whatnot. And you're thinking, but it's ridiculous that your mind goes there because Ramos is one of the best defenders of his generation. You look at the trophies he's won, everything he's done, phenomenal. And Cucuré's another one. Look at, you know, he was a big part of the Spain side who won the Euros, of course. You know, like the goals come down his side.

10:22And yet you're right. Sometimes you look at him and you go, how, the coordination and the balance, this guy's a professional footballer. He almost looks like a sort of Jim Henson creation sometimes. nice reference a fellow fellow Jim absolutely one of the good ones actually there's a lot of bad gyms isn't there but yeah Jim Henson's a good one often it's not nice to have a gym in there indeed as you know as well as anyone on the rare occasion it is nice well anyway Chelsea yes and those chances by the way just to mention for that Enzo Fernandes one where he heads it and misses the target and the whole stadium and Maresca himself just it falls to his knees and it's like that was the chance wasn't it Yeah, they're just Jones in for Chelsea Dagger, aren't they, at that point?

11:05But they've got another... Yeah, so Chelsea Dagger was played again, despite the controversy of it being played when they beat Benfica 1-0. The board have heard that the fans hate it, and they've gone, this is our toy. We don't care what you think. Yeah, you've got the football to enjoy. Let us enjoy the music. That's the second time that we've heard it, as I say. I'm worried it's there to stay. Yeah, I would be as well, if I was a Chelsea fan, if I can try and imagine that. What did Madonna think of it? She was too busy eating popcorn out of her handbag, wasn't she? That is a strange one.

11:41Why do you think it's strange? Is it because you think to yourself, why is someone who's that flush with cash doing that? That's what you're thinking, isn't it? It's more than why is she hiding it. What are you getting on that EasyJet flight? Yeah, yeah, it's the only one that goes there. Well, I would charter a private jet. No. It makes me think that someone's just gone, I can't bag search Madonna it's Madonna I just can't do that she's not gonna she's gonna give me a withering look that will you know stay with me until my grave yeah true I love that she's sneaking her own food in though did she sneak it in the fact that it's in the bag is what makes me think that yeah but I reckon so think about it she'll be in hospitality you get weird and sort of wonderful treats and quotes maybe it was a goodie bag yeah it's like a Gucci goodie bag maybe I wouldn't put it past them is all I'm saying Jim but anyway if you if you take popcorn to a game and eat it out of any kind of bag then do let us know what's the weirdest thing you've snuck into a game ooh an array of weapons now missiles missiles yeah anything's called a missile isn't it if it's chucked on the pitch be that a lighter or a Vespa which happened in Italy that time didn't it how on earth did they get it in oh dear bit by bit now Liverpool yes they lost the game It's their third successive loss in a row.

13:05Some people said, well, the writing's been on the wall for Liverpool with regard to losing games this season, the last-minute winners of paper and over the crackers. What do you make of all this, Jim? This feels like the result that the performances were threatening. I mean, three defeats in a week is obviously a sign that something isn't quite right there. And obviously, as we touched on earlier, they've now been on the end of a last-minute winner rather than getting it done themselves. So, yeah, I mean, this performance, it felt like the defeats have maybe knocked a bit of confidence out of them because they didn't have the usual zip and they weren't quite the Liverpool that you expect them to be.

13:41That's why the goal was, it's maybe a little harsh to call it a mistake, but Virgil van Dijk really got that wrong, didn't he? I think he was expecting Caeselu to cut to the right. He goes too early and just opens up that kind of passageway. And the way... If you're judging him on the standards that he's set which are the finest possibly we've ever seen among the finest we've ever seen in the history there's no doubt about that but the way he sets his body it's almost like he's invited Kaiseido to shoot with his bum which I've not seen before very very strange yeah I you said something before we came on air when we were talking about this so I'm going to quote you back to you it's like this is the transitional season we thought that was going to be last season and the genius of Slott last season was to as everybody knows to channel what Klopp had already set out because he'd kind of done a lot of the hard work of course Slott's going to have his ideas and Slott is trying to make them play a bit more expansively this season that is quite clear therefore you're going to think they're going to be more open if you're going to be a little bit more open and you're controlling games well then by sort of you know by proxy if you like you're not going to the opposite you're not going to be able to exploit that because you're controlling it and you're not the ball and much has been made of Liverpool not controlling games so far this season.

15:01I wonder what happens then. What does Slott do? Because of course we know that they've got incredible firepower up there. Of course we know the quality they have throughout their side. I mean, when they lined up against Palace the other week, I was looking at that side and it was like, flipping Nora. You know, on paper, that's one of the best teams you'll see. And also, one of the interesting things about that is when you look at how stacked the attacking talent is, And also, you know, the quality of the fullbacks, sort of, as you say, on paper, that is a team that doesn't necessarily have to control every game because if it becomes a bit of a back and forth, they're always going to have the better firepower.

15:39They're always going to be able to sort of just do you on the break. But it doesn't seem to be kind of working that way. Yeah, so something's not clicking. Because as you say, all the parts are there. The squad is there. But again, Palace beat them, but should have been more than a goal up. out of sight might be slightly too strong a way of putting it but they should have been there Chelsea again decent value for the win Galatasaray again probably rode their luck a classic scrappy European away game yeah exactly I suppose the positive of Liverpool is they are creating chances and it's a last gasp winner etc etc however again we've got enough sample size here to see that there's a pattern here that there are reasons to be concerned.

16:25You know, Jamie Carragher's been very vocal about this. And I just wonder, like we say, with Slott, you know, he'll have his own ideas and so on and so forth, trying to bring them in now. There's a bit of a teething problem, maybe, different parts. But you've also, I mean, those players are still getting used to the fact that Diogo Jota's not there. Yes. So I think that is maybe, how big of a factor that is, I don't know. Quite clearly it was there in the opening day against Bournemouth at home. You saw the emotions of the crowd, the players, you know, Salah just, those images of him just looking at the crowd after the game, you know, being emotional and so on.

17:06It doesn't go away after just the game. No, absolutely not. It's not like, all right, well that's that then. There's still that. There's still a Diogo Jota shaped place in that team, which is not there. and the tragedy of that will always be there in some guys but it's still, you know so there's that to contend with grief is a shock to anyone's system and it manifests itself in really unpredictable ways obviously the vast majority of the people in that squad knew him well, knew him personally they loved him and that is going to be something that affects you in ways that you are simply going to be unable to control so I do I do suspect that's a quite major factor as well so yeah and then of course you know you've mentioned Van Dijk and obviously Salah there they're that little bit older and you know whether there are the you want to say football years of course because they're still very young men but in football years once you get to a certain age every year after that it does take a bit of a toll and Salah's an interesting one because again for his standards you know he missed a couple of good chances he's misfired when he was offside that was really kind of wayward wasn't it and looked a very different player from the player that we expect him to be I mean he's got two goals and two assists in the Premier League and one of each in the Champions League so it's not like it's not completely anonymous but he doesn't look like the player he was last season in the early stages in fact for about two thirds maybe a little bit more than that of last season he was having really one of the best seasons a Premier League player has ever had and I think it was the best form he's been in in his life and he's obviously already one of the greatest players to have ever played in England.

18:47And he's simply not doing that at the moment, is he? No. And it's... Honestly, I do think that there was something since that PSG exit in the Champions League last season. Yeah, okay, he continued and scored a few goals. You saw, though, in the League Cup final, it was pretty anonymous and so on. I know Newcastle were great. But I do feel that the nature of that Premier League title race, yes, they still had to win games and obviously there were still moments. but it wasn't like it was in the first kind of two-thirds or whatever of that season and I don't know I wonder with Salah I really thought he was going to leave and and you don't know what conversations go on but does he look around and go you know I'm not going to go to Saudi you know way too good for any of that kind of crap you look around don't get any more offers and you kind of go well all right I love this place so yes this is a good place to stay but is he in the right mindset for that you know would it I don't know time will tell of course but one thing is for sure is that that front line whatever one for all the reasons stated and reasons unstated which people will have their opinions it's not firing if it does then my goodness you know Liverpool will get it back together and I think it's inevitable that it will click at some point indeed but it's not just that full backs as well they're having some issues and I again the right hand side was very vulnerable very vulnerable as in Liverpool's right hand side exactly and I think this is this is really where we're seeing what Arna Slott wants to do with this Liverpool team and right now they're still second in the league but as I say the manner of the performances I think there is cause for concern for Liverpool also Canate went off injured and that's you know it's the obvious problem position that's been identified at the start of the season they've obviously got Van Dijk, Canate and Gomez to cover the centre back positions until January unless you want to play someone out of position I know Gravenberg dropped back in there during this game.

20:39So maybe that's something they'll consider in the future if they absolutely have to. But, you know, I mean, Canate going off, don't know how serious that is. Maybe it's fine. Maybe he'll be back after the international break. But it's a lot of football for those three to cover. And, you know, that's clearly a problem. I would just think with slot, you know, other managers are pilloried if they try something and it's not quite working or you can see it. I think give Gomez a go. Do you know what I mean? We know he can play centre half or full back. just to kind of establish something. I don't know.

21:10The other real bugger for Liverpool is Alisson's injured. Yeah. And that could be for a little while. Now, I know Mamedashvili's a good goalkeeper, but Alisson has been perhaps Liverpool's best player this season so far. Again, you get past that defence, which doesn't seem as hard this season, you don't have the end-of-level boss baddie that you did in Alisson. Sure. I mean, Mamedashvili is a very good goalkeeper. He is. And I like that he is keeping up their goalkeeping department's consistently excellent beard game. Very different type of beard from Alisson. but it's also very, very good. True.

21:39And of course, he wasn't at fault for any of those goals. Indeed. The Chelsea scored, so we should say that. Of course, Arsenal beat West Ham 2-0 to finish off the weekend top of the table, a point ahead of Liverpool. It's all working out for old Marcus, isn't it? His predictions. Don't forget yourself. I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to stay calm on that front. I've got a lead to throw away, Jim. Are you nervous already? Let me just pick up my bottle here. Right. coming up after this more pressure for Big Ang

22:19I could have been sitting on a couch watching you guys depending who's on probably on mute welcome back to the Football Ramble everybody thanks to Friend of the Ramble Big Con for sending us that clip on Discord you can become a Friend of the Ramble too for just five bucks a month search patreon.com forward slash football ramble to get involved. Let's go there then. Newcastle United 2, Nottingham Forest 0. More pressure is heaped on the Big Aussie. His seventh game without a win as Nottingham Forest manager. He didn't seem too worried. In his press conference he said, you have to be up for the fight and the struggle.

22:52I'd be silly to be sitting here at the age of 60 if I lacked self-belief or fight. Even in the schoolyard, I picked fights with people that beat me up. Yeah, now Lars suggested earlier that this shows that essentially he has a history of repeating the same mistakes and learning nothing from them. Which I think is fair enough. You beat me up, right? I'm coming back for you. This happened again. If only there was some way to change this outcome. Sometimes you've got to... In martial arts, I believe they say to you, first and foremost, can you get out of there? Can you run? Only if you're cornered.

23:26That's your suggestion, is it? Run, run. Well, yes. Get out of there. you're a hiding to nothing or try and beat up Maranakis I wouldn't if I were you I wouldn't even say that oh yeah it's a scary scary man okay I do think though that this is one of the hardest venues to go and get anything from venues I like that it's a venue isn't it if you're San San Fender exactly yeah but it's Newcastle away is a really really difficult atmosphere that they're really strong at home and to be honest I don't think this particular fixture is one to kind of beat Ange particularly hard with. Obviously he needs to turn it around but this is like the most predictable result of the weekend.

24:11But they were pretty lacklustre though. They were. In the first half, the first 10-15 minutes or so I thought oh they're just going to get put away quite handily here but they did kind of come back into it a little bit and I did wonder I thought maybe they'll get a nil-nil here. Newcastle have been vulnerable to that at home but that's the best you're hoping for there. Jim, listen to what you're saying. I know, yeah, I know, but I mean, this is the baffling new reality that Forrest have found themselves in in an incredibly short space of time. Yeah, it is. But that's what happens when, you know, you've got a guy making these impulsive decisions.

24:43Look, we all feel sorry for Ange on a human level. Of course we do, because facing the press in this country is... I can't imagine what it's like. He's got so little time for it at the best of times. Yeah, and of course. but like it must be so mind-numbingly frustrating and boring having to deal with them same type of question over and over again but I don't think he handles it very well though I don't think he cares though does he? but I think both things could be true in that I think that he but I think he does care because he gets irritated by it and he gets very prickly and again I understand that but just to me it's like just to be politician-like and go yeah yeah fine and when you know look at Russell Martin who's obviously just been sacked as Rangers manager some of the questions he was facing and again some of the quotes you know but it's difficult for a manager if you've got 101 mics in front of your face hey you just got a beat are you going to turn it around you know again you're going to say the odd thing here and there where you might go maybe I might not have said that but the way he handled himself just you know with in particular the BBC I know he may well not have done and Rangers fans are going what are you talking about he said this but there was a way he did it where he was he was, as I say, very politician-like.

25:56And I think Ange would do... Are you saying Ange would be more like Russell Martin? Am I hearing this? Yeah. Ange would be more like recently sacked Rangers manager, Russell Martin. You are getting your cheapies on the sly. This is the last piece of analysis I was expecting to come out of your mouth. Okay, you see how I'm struggling? I've got one mic in front of my face and I'm saying stuff that I'm thinking, oh, maybe I shouldn't have said that. Yeah, Ange, I apologise. you keep doing you keep fighting the bullies in the press and you'll be fine but look it's another loss ultimately at the end of the day when all's said and done it's a loss and they weren't good Forrest it was uninspiring and yes Newcastle have been in recent matches they've found a little bit of form I think they've coughed and spluttered a little bit at the start of the season you know Gimoresh scores a lovely goal and I understand they were very unhappy with the referee and the build up to that goal yeah that one it was one of those ones where you see it at first you think oh it's obviously a foul but actually I mean Gimaraes does get the ball and it's a little bit of a sort of coming together because it happens very quickly and I think actually having looked it back I think Morgan Gibbs-White might be a bit stronger there and that's probably why the ref hasn't given that yeah and I know he puts his hands on him I mean he's one of those ones I mean Forrest and Maranacos are up to their old tricks they've launched a complaint over the standard of refereeing during their 3-2 defeat against Michelin right they're saying that the Michelin men were a bit too hard on them I don't know but to be fair I mean we did say the other day didn't we to me there was definitely a foul on Callum Hutton for Michelin's third goal but that's not the full story this is very much should we get Klattenberg back in you know and to be fair to Postacoglu he said after the game he's like he doesn't often comment on refereeing decisions so again fair play to him there but the mistake Elliot Anderson gave or did for the penalty you know where he takes a bad touch where normally he's got an immaculate first touch a player can do that and a player can make a mistake absolutely human beings etc but when you is that just a one off or is that the and effect I think it's quite harsh to pin Elliot Anderson falling over and giving away a penalty on the and effect isn't it no but if it's all going wrong around you I don't know but this is the problem when that stuff like that starts to happen yeah when it comes from being under pressure though isn't it the more pressure we're under from the opposition the more mistakes you're likely to make certainly playing in your own box and obviously that comes down to the quality of Newcastle I think rather than the shortcomings of Forrest fine I'm just last month we were saying Elliot Anderson could be star at the World Cup you're right he might not even be in the squad at this rate I mean Forrest are one point above the relegation zone it's it's early days look but there is no guarantee of Premier League survival for anybody really this season.

28:52If he finishes 17th again and wins the Europa League again, that will be absolutely spectacular, will it not? Is he just laying the foundations for that now? Can you imagine? He's just like, look, this is what you can expect in the league. This is what I do. We've been mugged off by the referees in the Europa League so far. Just wait. Just wait. Can you imagine if he did that again? It would be absolutely astonishing. It would be sensational. You'd have to put him down as a specialist. Yep. A really high stakes, high reward specialist. if you're a Forest fan would you I think you would take that yeah of course be in the Champions League yeah I mean it would be oh man it would be wreak havoc with your own kind of enjoyment of the sport for most of a year but then you get that brilliant cherry on top at the end and as you say you're in the Champions League and everything's hunky dory but I mean does Maranakis give him the chance I don't know for it to well this is it I like that for that long well this is why that quote and comment Maranakis made when he said about he speaks Greek and when he won the Europa League he promoted Greece the reason why that's worth highlighting is I think that comes into play with how long Ange stays there because Maranach is I don't think it would be a stretch to say the man has a bit of an ego right and so if he sacks Ange now or quite soon it reflects badly on him yes now there is also and Greece apparently and Greece yeah which is the big picture and I respect that you know me England is the big picture with me.

30:18So I, you know, but bollocks aside, with Maranakis though, people say, oh, well, you know what he's like, he's very sort of trigger happy. He, you know, he'll fire a manager and all that kind of stuff. Yes, but could this be the case of this might be the opposite in that he doesn't want to, he wants to say, no, I'm going to prove to you that my man's correct. You just don't know with him. Well, I think he seems fairly impulsive as well though, doesn't he? So I'd be, depends how badly it goes. I wouldn't be surprised if he just pulls the trigger. Marcus, you're a Fulham fan. Correct. How important is it to you that Marco Silva promotes Portugal?

30:55Vitally important. Yeah, well, there you go then. Wait, look. Portugal are the Nations League holders. Yeah, exactly. You do the maths. Yeah, I don't know where to start on that. Speaking of Portuguese managers, Peter Pereira getting sent off? Oh, yeah. Do you like that? Cheeky little one. He's got to be forest manager under Maranakis at some point. I don't know if he's going to kind of burnish his CV enough at Wolves for that to happen. Oh, maybe. Yeah, it was obviously when they drew a 1-0 with Brighton, but he was sent off when Wolves were not awarded a free kick and he booted a ball into the broadcaster's dugout.

31:28Yes! Again, somebody think of the broadcasters. They're taking shots left, right and centre. And that is the one person that I want to hear from after Wolves won, Brighton won. Just talk to the angry man. Well, apparently his assistant coach, Luis Miguel, said the ball was there. He kicked the ball. Sometimes you kick a bottle of water or something we lost our minds I'm sorry we lost our minds takes a turn the collective week yeah what did you kick Lewis maybe a broadcaster yeah is there any broadcasters around here I don't know but at least the referees are protecting the broadcasters that's why you've got to protect the players you've also got to do that as well anyway yeah so Forrest are struggling good win for Newcastle though they seem to be finding a better form as I say yeah Valtamander's very good again could have had a hat-trick on another day he's very busy he's going to be a real favourite you're seeing it happen in real time he's just becoming a cult hero and he's a really interesting player because something about the shirt hanging off of him and the rolled down socks he almost doesn't look like an athlete his body language his smile he's taken to it yeah absolutely and I think that a very special club Newcastle as we all know well documented it looks like he's immediately bought into it definitely and as a fan of any team you want that but I think there are a handful of clubs where it's particularly kind of special in the relationship with the players and the fans, and he's definitely done that.

32:50And that quote from Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, which I understand there's one or two journalists who have kind of added a little bit more context in it, and there's a slight... I mean, look, it's a negative comment ultimately, but still... It's a stupid thing to say. Whatever context and deeper meaning there is that maybe we've lost in translation there, the fact is that quote, I think, will, in a sort of positive sense, follow around Volta Marder and the Newcastle fans and I think that that will kind of bring them together especially if he's roofing penalties with that much panache brilliant the technique of that the way he hits it because he makes that look really easy I don't know what you mean anyone should be able to do that probably dispatch with cells who'd had a good game in goal for Forest I think also it's worth pointing out I think that Newcastle's attack still hasn't sort of truly clicked in the way that we know it will be capable of eventually for obvious reasons still figuring well absolutely yeah but I mean they did a load of during the summer they were training without a striker well indeed but what I was going to say was that I think their midfield really won them this game Sandro Tonali in particular was really really good and that midfield trio of him Joel Linton and Bruno Gimara she's obviously really really strong and particularly at home it's a challenge for everybody and it was one that Forrest just had nothing in the face of yeah well they needed a victory they got it and they move up to 11th just one point behind Manchester United.

34:14That sounds so much better than it actually is. The league table doesn't lie. Now, Everton 2, Crystal Palace 1. Yes. They are beatable. They are. Palace are beatable. Great win for Everton, but Palace's record unbeaten run comes to an end, and it was through the boot of Jack Grealish who sort of tackled the ball into the net. Yeah, he did. It's just nice to see him that happy, isn't it? It is. late winner from Jack Grealish the look on his little face I know it's just he's a 30 year old little boy and we all love him yeah not a not a classic Jack Grealish goal but he ended up in the back no but actually I think one of the things that's quite underrated about Grealish's game is his work rate and the way he will get stuck into exactly that sort of situation and that kind of endeavour has paid off hasn't it yeah you can look at Grealish as a bit of a fancy dad or whatever he's absolutely not but yeah but under Manchester City you know, to work your nuts off and so on for Guardiola.

35:15But also as well, one shouldn't forget where he came from before that. He was used to playing in the championship with them, and then he was relegation scrap for, you know, got them up there. So going into a Moyes side, he knows what he's got to do. He knows what the requirements are there. Of course, he missed out on Thomas Tuchel's England squad on Friday, and we reacted to the squad over on the Football Rumble YouTube channel. So do get involved there, everybody, if you want to hear our thoughts on that. but this game though yes of course Palace's unbeaten run has come to an end but my goodness it shouldn't have done really shouldn't it I mean they'll walk off they must have walked off that pitch thinking not only how did we lose the game how on earth did we not win the game I mean David Moyes said Palace should have been 3-0 up at half time yeah Munal scored a brilliant goal as we're sort of coming to expect from him as well he's such a such a good player but Jean-Philippe Mateta yeah not his best afternoon no he really really should have kind of finished that game off.

36:07He had a really good chance to make it 2-0 and he just put it just a little bit wide. But I think part of what's made Palace so exciting this season is that they just do make a lot of chances and sometimes, you know, in a difficult environment like this and that goal is, you know, there's an element of fortune to it in the way it kind of canons off Grealish as well. These things happen, right? I don't think there's any reason to panic for Palace. The equalising goal, Lacroix. Very rare error from him. You know, And that's what opens the door for Everton, really. Because as you say, on another day, Palace are two, maybe three up.

36:39And that mistake, again, very uncharacteristic. The important thing for Palace is that Glasner gets them in there and goes, lads, we play that game again ten times, we're going to win it nine times. Yeah, exactly. So they've had a great run and they're just desperately unlucky that their unbeaten run is still not intact. It could be one of those things where you think, all right, people are not going to talk about the unbeaten run. you know we can put that chat just an unlucky day Adam Wharton was booked for probably the best tackle of the weekend people really agree with that it was ridiculous though it was a brilliant tackle and he gets booked for it if you're in the England squad Adam you get more protection indeed but that's not his fault it's very much Thomas Tuchel's fault again check out the Football Ramble YouTube channel we talk about Wharton and Jack Grealish said Wharton deserved his man of the match award which was very sweet I did love that Munoz goal though which you mentioned.

37:32What is it about Munoz at Palace? It just, he seems to... Look like the hardest man in the world. That, and also, just repel opposition players. The space that man has. You know how they set up. You know he's going to be out there. And the space he always gets. It reminds me of Dani Alves. Totally. He patrols that entire side of the pitch. The engine on him is absolutely unbelievable. His technique's really good. Marvelous player. Yeah, he's always offering an option as well. He's really, really good. Well, I mean, it's a bit like why Liverpool went for Kirkhead. And there was talk of Anthony Robinson being linked to Liverpool as well at Fulham.

38:07Now, obviously, Robinson is now, because of what Munoz is doing and what he's achieved in England already, has a, you would say, a slightly smaller profile than him, maybe. But those types of players are really like gold dust in the modern game because they play like two players. Yeah. And as you mentioned, you know, the Brazilian, you know, Cafu is another one and Maicon as well. you just give them that right side so it gives Palace the option of they would go for a back three if Liverpool can figure it out you know because if you've got two solid centre-halves you know Pep's been doing this for years and so on as you say the engine on him but his eye for goal as well is superb you know great one to have you in your fantasy team but yeah they've got a real player there and I'm trying to basically not say they're going to have to try and keep hold of him yeah well the thing is though Palace have a lot of players where you could say that I mean Adam Warton Jean-Philippe Mateta yeah a few examples there Bournemouth have kept hold of Antoine well absolutely and they I mean they don't have to sell all of these players every summer right I mean obviously convincing the players to stay in the face of interest is a different thing but you know I think they made a profit in the summer didn't they Palace and they're running away or they're starting to be running away for sure that means that they actually have quite a lot of power on their side they do and they might well be in the Europa League next season I hope so you know they're just a trophy went away from it as we all are in some form or another.

39:31But a great win for Everton and of course Palace haven't won at Everton since Neil Warnock was manager in 2014. It takes a special manager. It does. A special man to be managing Palace to get a win at Everton. So a good win for them. Lovely to see Jack Grealish happy as you say. But sad for Palace. Alright, coming up after this our Man United turning Old Trafford into a fortress.

40:03Manchester United 2 Sunderland 0 what's the fuss about Man United are back Jim they are yeah it's a fortress as you say Rubens at the wheel etc etc yeah Man United third league win on the spin at Old Trafford yes easy peasy the fella with a pair should have gone for home wins shouldn't he in the league yeah very specifically yeah easy to be wise after the fact not the league cup No, very much not so. Bertrand Traore should have put Sunderland ahead very, very early on though. And then it's probably a different game with all the stress of that, isn't it? He did the whole country a disservice. He really did.

40:38He did. That was the one where we were all thinking, come on. Come on. Come on. I could do better than that. Nothing against Manchester United as a club. Great club. But you've had your fun. Yeah. We all enjoy fallen giants. And now you're going to pay. Yeah. But I think actually after that, Man United, you know, Ruben Amarim said after the game, didn't he that it was an adult performance and I think that's right it was it was a sensible performance and far too often we've seen from his Man United side they just they mentally crumble they make a mistake they do something silly they're incapable of responding to a setback because they get in their own heads and they didn't do any of that Mason Mount as well lovely to see him you know contributing and being on the pitch and you know he's made some contributions already this season and it was always a weird move this wasn't it was a strange fit yeah but He's a quite versatile player.

41:30Amorim loves him. He's one of the very, very, very few players that you would say is doing all right under Amorim. I mean, it's been patchy. He's had his injuries and so on. But he seems to... He's a good player for crying out loud. Is it too tentative to talk about a return to the England squad? I'll take that as a yes. And I knew that was the answer. But look, I think Manchester United, what can you read into this? I think very, very little to be quite frank look at the teams Man United are far superior on paper to Sunderland I know Sunderland have had a good start and obviously credit to them but Man United should be winning this and if they do show a little bit of maturity and a little bit of quality and it was good for Cesco to get his goal I'd be pleased for him and he's a player any kind of talk of oh well it's a yes it is positive and I think it's the teensiest little step in the right direction but the right direction nonetheless but I just don't know how much you can look into this some people were trying to if anybody, fine really trying to kind of rinse this for what it's worth and say oh right this is on the road to recovery well of course you've got to win games and keep clean sheets to get on the road to recovery absolutely but don't be surprised if Man United do get the odd result because of the players they have yeah they're at Anfield next so that's an interesting one after the international break it is yeah I mean when asked about the international break coming at the wrong time after this win Amarim said there is no momentum with our team with a break or without a break you know so I mean it just goes to show you that he's acutely aware of the situation he wants to remind everybody in the harshest possible terms of the situation yeah and I think that Part of the difficulty of this job, isn't it, is that you don't get the credit for wins like this because it should be an absolute given.

43:27It's just another thing that he has to shoulder. Credit where credit's due, but yeah, as I say, time will tell. But thankfully, though, reports last week did indicate that Manchester United are considering Saudi Arabia as the venue for their mid-season friendlies. Why not? You know, they're not busy on the Wednesdays. It still ultimately is a lot less travel. I genuinely can't believe when Pete said this or sort of a suggestion close to this when he was saying they're not in European football why not just play some lucrative exhibition matches or whatever to fill the time he's also been really down on Virgil van Dijk and there he is twerking Chelsea into a goal at the weekend all we need is is David Rea to drop a couple of howlers no we don't we do not need that Marcus it's not on brand for you this season okay but we when he said we all laughed at him when he mentioned that well we're not laughing now are we?

44:22No we're not I'm not going to apologise to him I want to make that clear but I will stop laughing at him Yeah okay fine That's a victory for for Pete Donaldson There was also a victory for Bournemouth Yes on the weekend as well they got the Premier League round of fixtures underway on the Friday night they beat Fulham 3-1 damn them scored all three goals in the last 20 minutes there was a couple of lovely ones in there I have to say Yeah and it was played in sort of ghost story conditions, wasn't it? It was a really horrible, foul night. But yeah, I mean, Fulham, obviously, Ryan Sessignon gets the goal, celebrates like he's won the World Cup.

44:56It was amazing. What an outpouring of joy. I think it was such a kind of nip and tuck game up until that point that when you get a goal reasonably late on in the game, then you think, ah, that's decisive because it's been so tight. And then, of course, Bournemouth have other ideas. And what a goal from Semenyo. to nutmeg the goalkeeper from such an acute angle and get it in the corner like getting the ball into the goal at all is difficult there but to drop the nuts on Bernd Leno is really something how much do you look at Bernd Leno for that?

45:32I think maybe it's a little bit harsh because surely not expecting him to even attempt to shoot from there I suppose one would say that's criminal for a goalkeeper to leave a big gap between your legs for the striker to exploit. I prefer to look at Semenya there and say he's got it through that gap. Presumably we should. I mean, again, with a striker, when you're going at that pace, you are just hitting it into a general area without taking anything away from him. Do you think that it's just a little bit of a hit and hope then? Because that looks really precise and deliberate to me. Yeah, that does seem harsh when I say that.

46:03But either or, the ball goes in the back of the net and he does stick it through Leno's legs. I mean, yeah, I suppose, yeah, the argument for Semenya meaning that That is, as a striker running down the wing and getting into that position, he knows he can't put the ball through the goalkeeper's chest. And you either roof it or you try and go low. And obviously, quite clearly, he went low because he's not got the angle to slot it in the corner. So that's what he presumably must have been going for. But it was a great goal. It got Bournemouth going. And Patrick Cliver, son Justin, scores an absolute peach.

46:35And you just go, ah, bugger off. And that's a full-on fact. Yeah, Bournemouth have got such a wealth of attacking talent and it's great they managed to keep it all together and the start they've had has been phenomenal they're sort of them and Palace are sort of jostling to be everyone's second favourite team I think a little bit Bournemouth have kind of gone under the radar after seven games they're on 14 points with Spurs, just two points off the top of the league, I mean they had a brilliant start to the season last season of course for that first half of the season there was talk of can they get into the Champions League the style of Iriola's play very fast, pacey, quick on the transition and all that kind of good stuff.

47:14Very eye-catching. It did catch up with them after a bit, you know, again, by the law of averages. Yeah, but they still finished well. You know, ultimately, securely in sort of mid-table and very much looking up the table, of course. I just wonder if he, what they're going to do this season to maybe try and be more aware of that. You know, they're more experienced. They've kept a lot of those attacking players, as you say. They've lost a few defenders. but keeping Semenya I mean it wasn't a saga at all or anything around Semenya tied him down to a new contract really quickly which is smart isn't it very smart I expect he will move on at some point but they've secured him as an asset there and they'll get a lot of money for him especially because he seems to be a rare example of a footballer who is like legitimately two footed brilliant amber pedal which is so so rare and gives you so much variety and so many options certainly in terms of squad building so yeah Mentioned Justin Clivert there obviously son of the great Patrick Clivert did you see that him scoring there it meant that three of Patrick Clivert's four sons scored on consecutive days so Shane Clivert scored for Barcelona under-19s against PSG on Wednesday I know it's only underage football but he's played for Barcelona under-19s against PSG so worthy of a mention and Ruben Clivert scored his first goal for Lyon in the Europa League on Thursday and then of course Justin scored on Friday Brilliant stuff.

48:38What a dynasty. Absolutely brilliant stuff. I was going to say, it's a footballing dynasty. That's a footballing... It's the Klaivert Kingdom. It really is. It's unbelievable. It's very hard to become a footballer, even if your dad was one, wasn't it? It is one of those things where, like, nepotism probably has some advantages, but ultimately you still have to be able to hack it as a professional. Of course. Three of them. It's amazing. Absolutely. Big clubs as well. I love, though, that Patrick could still... I don't know what type of man he is. he is a former Netherlands international so I'd imagine he's not backwards and coming forward and I like the thought of him saying hey he's got your goal for Barcelona on 19's that's great and he's doing things yeah yeah of course by your age I'd won the Champions League with a winning goal but anyway you're still doing well you're an established Premier League player you're on for good things you just remember who the king of the kingdom is now during Sky's coverage of this game on Friday night Jamie Redknapp issued a formal apology to Alan Sugar Sir Alan Sir Sugar he threatened old Sir Shugs to sue Redknapp for his comments that Alan Sugar had left Tottenham Hotspur in a mess when he sold his steak in 2001 the points Jamie Redknapp made tail between your legs I mean clearly you know it would have let's say cost him some money to not make this apology it's obviously like essentially bullet points in that apology and clearly Alan Sugar's made good on his threat to sue him isn't he someone's had a word yes and he donated was it 10 grand to Great Ormond Street as well.

50:06Fair enough, fair enough. I mean, look, yeah, in the spirit of Joey Barton being a silly sausage with Jeremy Vine, sometimes you've just got to, yeah, tuck your tail between your legs, get the apology done and not lose all your money because you've called someone a bike nont. Very easy to not do that. Oh, dear. Let's move on. Let's move on. Let's get on our bikes and move on. Yes, we mentioned earlier Russell Martin obviously been sacked as a Rangers manager 123 days 17 games he took charge of it seems crazy he managed to get 17 under his belt but he did presumably you think this is great timing for him because the the Forest job will be available soon and he can slot right into that job swap back in Glasgow yeah his last game was a one-all draw at Falkirk on Sunday I mean he was given a police escort away from the stadium after fans tried to stop the team bus from leaving I mean that is mad that is horrendous I understand you can love your team but that that is over the top yes terrible again on a human level I feel sorry for him but it wasn't happening no it simply wasn't happening and he's gone Rangers Rangers are 8th right now in the in the Scottish Premiership 8th and it's it's not like you know it's early days and all that I understand that am I right in thinking they're 11 points behind those magnificent Gorgie boys I mean you could word it in another way Jim and say they're 11 points behind the league leaders after 7 games yeah I mean 8 points they've won 1 in their last 6 they're not going to win the league this season no already you know that long way to go no Jim they're not even going to get in the top 6 at this rate can you imagine when they split as they do in the Scottish Premiership and Rangers are in the bottom half it's bad but yeah so they are nine points behind Celtic because Celtic are only in second place having drawn two.

52:09This is the thing. Celtic have drawn two of their first seven games. Normally that would be like, oh, that's a bad start. Rodgers has been saying this has not been good. And again, normally, Rangers would be thinking, oh, brilliant, we've got the run on them already. No. But of course, the team to beat at the moment in the Scottish Premiership is the team who have scored the most goals, accumulated the most points, got the best goal difference. I'm only reading what's, the league table doesn't lie, it is the magnificent Gorgie Boys they're up there and they're on the verge get on right before we go it is my desire to give you all a Jonjo Shelby update he's had a mixed start to life in the UAE third tier as I'm sure we all would he got an assist in a 3-0 draw in his first start but then he missed a penalty yeah have you seen the video of it because it it essentially looks like a full size pitch but like it's like a power league thing yes it's essentially in a cage.

53:05There aren't any supporters there. There's not even anywhere for them to be. That's the UAE 3rd team. Yeah, I didn't realise it would be quite like that. I wonder how much John Joe realised it would be quite like that. He's thinking, can I get the ball out of this cage? No, this was in the brochure. What is he doing there? Anyway. Trouser in cash. That's what he's doing there. Thanks for listening to the Football Rumble, part of the Acast Creator Network. We're back tomorrow for the Mailbag where we're joined by a very special guest, OTC regular Lars Stevenson. What a treat. Hey, lovely to have that Nordic beauty with us.

53:40Absolutely, every time. Yes, indeed. So, yes, until tomorrow, everybody, for the Mailbag, thanks very much, Jim. Thank you. Thanks very much, Patrick, Cliver and Summers.

53:58The Football Ramble is a Stack production and part of the ACAST Creator Network.