Multi-purpose prop-based banter

0:00Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Avnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. Whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. From one of the fastest growing soccer newsrooms, The Guardian brings you in-depth World Cup coverage that gets into the winners and losers on and off the pitch. Read, watch and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective, and a squad of Americans, including me, on the ground with the U.S.

0:32national team. Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge, try On The Ball. It's a game in the Guardian app, and it's really, really fun. And if you're into stuff like this...

0:40Pete Donaldson: Well, I think the problem is, if you give footballers an inch, they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much. It's a bit too real. Maybe you could just talk with a slight delay. Be sure to listen to our Football Weekly podcast for on-the-move expert analysis. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. Hi friends, Grace from the Working Hard podcast here. When you're stretching every dollar, a little goes a long way and Walmart Business is here to help. They make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax exempt purchasing for eligible organizations.

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3:40Pete Donaldson: Well, you could be friends of mine, everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble! Arsenal are floundering and Spurs are in deep trouble. It's Monday, 13th of April. I'm Marcus Speller I'm Piers Morgan I'm Pete Donaldson and I'm David Cartlidge

4:04Pete Donaldson: Piers you old dog good to see you again it's good to be here oh it's another Manic Monday on the Football Ramble the weekend's action has just been and gone in the Premier League although we do have one more game tonight Peter we do Which one is that one then? Manchester United and Leeds United. The battle of the United. The battle of the Pennines. Is it really? How about that? So keep your powder dry. But I think there's enough to get our teeth into today. Jim Campbell. I would agree with that. Yeah, broadly speaking. What teeth have you got? Have you got the fangs in today? Or have you got the molars?

4:37Pete Donaldson: I've got them all, mate. Right, okay. Well, let's see which ones you want to utilise first. Did you use your molars to eat your dinner and your lunch? which is what Arteta requested.

4:49Jim Campbell: You've got to bring your lunch and your dinner to the Emirates. It turned out that was actually very unwieldy and wasn't great in terms of pretty much preparation. Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. The crackle of the hampers.

5:01Pete Donaldson: They put some stuff on. Oh, dearie me. But did you get yourself a£17 burger?

5:06Jim Campbell: I didn't, no. The annoying thing about that is we used to joke about that all the time, didn't we? And now just that's just the price of a burger everywhere now. Yeah, that's fair.

5:14Pete Donaldson: Not in Ronald's house. I see. I see Right Arsenal 1 Bournemouth 2 Oh dear We spoke on Friday About the tantalising Prospect for Arsenal fans To go 12 points clear At the top That is not the case They dropped the ball And we will talk about Manchester City of course In a minute Loud boos Full time Jim were you one of the Boo boys

5:37Jim Campbell: I was not one of the Boo boys As you know I will never Boo my team But it was What if they slag you off I just I'd just go, aww, really loudly. They were saying Boonmouth. Maybe they were saying Boonmouth. Congratulations, Boonmouth. Good show. But it was inevitable. I was with a friend of mine, and I was like, with about 10 minutes to go, I was like, there are going to be boos at full time. And it's absolutely inevitable, and people have the right to react as they will. And I was not surprised in the slightest, because it was the sort of performance that, you know, basically everybody has been saying would happen at some point in the season.

6:22Jim Campbell: And now it has for really a fourth season in a row. I mean, I think we spoke on Friday about Arsenal's win percentage in April under Arteta being like 41%. Like April in particular, it all falls apart. It's terrible. It's unforgivably bad. And Marcus, you know, you know more than anyone, I've been reticent all season to sound too confident about Arsenal going all the way and this is why because you can't realistically look at them and be fully confident that this won't happen it's not surprising that's the worst thing about it why has he not learned about April because this has now happened a few times it's a great question so I mean he's had a lot of stick and understandably I think for this TikTok thing in training right So they were doing the stuff with the pens and whatnot the other week.

7:11Jim Campbell: And I quite liked that because I thought it kind of takes your mind off of all of the outside noise and whatnot. But this stuff with like showing these big TikTok montages while they're training and stuff. At least do it in landscape. Well, quite, yeah. Although, can you do that from TikTok? Doesn't matter. A conversation for another time. Can I say that?

7:29Pete Donaldson: You might encourage people to do diving headers. That particular criticism is the first time I've heard it. Of the training. but I mean but like cringe is heavy cringe is an anchor that will be used to bludgeon you can you bludgeon someone with an anchor you gotta find someone to pick it up I guess they're bloody heavy by design but you just you just sort of get the sense that you need to keep this clart to the dressing room keep this clart under wraps don't constantly come out and tell people to bring their dinners

7:55Jim Campbell: yeah yeah it just seems like it seems like desperation doesn't it well what I was gonna say was and I we kind of mentioned this the other day as well that like they need to do something differently absolutely From what has happened in the past kind of four seasons. And this is more of the same. And clearly there are points in the season where this stuff works, this sort of team bonding stuff works. When you're not quite as leggy. You can control games when you're not quite that leggy, but they look tired at this moment in time. The focus clearly needs to be different. It looks to me like the focus is about kind of not getting in your own heads and not worrying and this, that and the other.

8:32Jim Campbell: What that means is that the focus isn't on the actual football. because they looked appalling on that pitch in so many ways. If you were to play a drinking game where you took a shot every time you found a unique criticism of that performance and the things around it that was fair, you would need your stomach pumped. Yeah, you'd be in trouble. How pissed would you be if you took a shot every time that they passed back to David Raya? You'd be dead, mate.

8:58Pete Donaldson: You wouldn't ask until half time. Yeah, that would be the end of you. You would legitimately be dead. I mean there's so many things you want to say trying to channel it I mean I totally agree with you they have to do something different now the hand is forced and it got to the point really where I was thinking the only player that seems to somewhat inspire that I can see is a 16 year old I was about to say Dallman is I mean we spoke about this before Jim I think last time and he is seemingly the different thing he's the young player without fear he's not doing what the other players are doing where they're clearly they're scared to make certain passes they're scared to make certain runs absolutely and he's the player you'd hope who could kind of just raise everybody by playing without the fear and go oh look at him he's playing with that freshness

9:48Jim Campbell: and he's opening up space and all that but like he's a 16 year old it's a lot to pour on him well it is there's another 16 year old on the bench Marley Salmon get him on get your flippers over here son get him on

9:58Pete Donaldson: get all the 16 year olds on maybe that's it but it is the advancement of the ball at the field, isn't it? I mean, there's been a lot of criticism in this match for Giocares, but he's just not been fed as much as most Premier League strikers. If Orbs played in that team, they probably wouldn't score quite as many.

10:15Jim Campbell: Part of the thing with Giocares is he's not amazing at sort of winning those aerial battles. Which is mad for somebody who's a unit. Yeah, yeah. If you're watching football for the first time, you'd look at him and go, oh, he's an absolute physical specimen. I bet he must win every header. He doesn't, does he? No, he doesn't. And also, Havertz was quite bad for that yesterday. So, Ray went long a few times to sort of bypass Bournemouth's very effective press. But that wasn't working either, which meant that the ball just kept coming back to him. Bournemouth shut off his options really, really well.

10:42Jim Campbell: So, he's just sort of dancing on the ball, as Yannick Bellassi put it. And then we'll come on to that. And it was actually really easy for Bournemouth. Because they know Arsenal aren't going to take a risky pass. You can let them have the ball. It's a lot like City in the Carabao Cup final. You let them have the ball and they'll just ping it around with utterly pointless possession. and then by the time they actually try something you're set in your shape and your structure and then you're really setting the agenda

11:06Pete Donaldson: and it was time and time again that happened. Jim, we wondered as everybody did across the land how much of a psychological blow that would be for the team who loses the Carabao Cup final. Well, I think we're beginning to see that but it's not just that. It's Pep Guardiola because it showed everybody a very, very effective and I say simple I mean, clearly it's not simple you know, if you're on the pitch and you have to bust a gut and all the rest of it but at least to the viewer, a reasonably simple way to set up against Arsenal and nullify them. And it is that, you know, Bournemouth, okay, Bournemouth have not had the calendar that Arsenal have had, so I understand that they're clearly fitter.

11:45Pete Donaldson: Big factor. But they made it count. That doesn't matter, does it? But they made it count. And Arsenal have spent the kind of money that Bournemouth have, and the size of scored and so on. So that League Cup final, Arsenal fans the last thing that they want is you go on don't win any trophies and they look back and go yeah that was actually the moment and I don't think that people thought it was going to be that big a psychological blow but it was as I say the set up that Guardiola showed everybody look just press them do this make them keep passing it back to the goalkeeper it was easier in that cup final because Kepa was in goal obviously right this region's better but just keep saying alright then break us down create something and even with the corner routines Bournemouth dealt with that easily keeper, punch him away.

12:27Pete Donaldson: Defenders, they're all set up. It's all too easy. And I don't get this from Arteta at the moment with, as you say, he has to do something different now. It is slipping away. It is at an alarming rate now. I mean, look at that stat. They've lost three of their last four games. They've lost three in their first 49 games of the season. The reason why Arsenal were top of the league with that points cushion was because they'd been the best team in the league. And lest we forget, if Manchester City win the games at hand, and even if they beat Arsenal at the Etihad, they only draw level. So it's all to play for, but they've got to do something in those last games.

12:59Pete Donaldson: And we're going to talk about, on the mailbag tomorrow, about managers changing tactics and styles and can they do it and blah, blah, blah. But one thing I was saying about Arteta, I was looking back at the league tables where they'd finished second previously. You go back to 22-23, they scored 88 goals that year. Oh yeah, the style was completely different. Completely different. 23-24, 91 goals they scored. And obviously Man City pipped them both times and that was Pep in full flow at Man City. I think that was the most they've ever scored in a season. It might well have been. It's a big tally.

13:27Pete Donaldson: Last season, that's where the drop-off happened, where they scored 60-odd goals or whatever it was. And this season, we're seeing the same thing with not a hugely different group of players.

13:37Jim Campbell: No. He has to try and rev it up. Part of it is based on, obviously, the scars of those two free-scoring seasons where it ultimately fell short. I think the style has been essentially changed quite dramatically. Initially, sort of tweaked so much, it's become a different thing. A sort of, you know, ship of Theseus style thing. where it's all about winning those tight marginal games and being really, really hard to break down while also being set up for a team who are going to come in and try and just defend against you. So Arsenal approached Bournemouth as if Bournemouth were playing with like 10, well, 11 men behind the ball.

14:13Jim Campbell: And they weren't. So they kind of had no real idea of how to play the game that was actually in front of them. And when you've got a defence as good as Arsenal's and you can be as effective from set pieces as Arsenal are, surely the logic is that that's your platform. And there have been times in the season when that was the case. I remember in November, they'd been criticised in October for relying too much on set pieces. They scored the most goals from open play in November. So that's in this team. It's there in this team and has been on display this season. But it has just become very, very timid.

14:48Jim Campbell: And it's not really a platform. the defence and the set pieces thing isn't a platform it's all they've got at the moment that's on Arteta though isn't it? absolutely it is that's absolutely on Arteta and I sometimes look at the player that they've the type of player they've identified I think it has it's running parallel to the changing system though there's been a bigger emphasis on physicality on fitness and such over technical ability I think in terms of the player I know they've got Ezean and such like that but they seem to have changed entirely the way that they shape the team both from a tactical point of view and the player that they get.

15:24Pete Donaldson: Yeah. And it's interesting to see and that's why maybe they're not unlocking games. But do you feel it's because he's maybe trying to pace it? My interpretation would have been and earlier on in the season I thought he's trying to let's just edge teams. We're good enough. Let's rely on the set piece or whatever and moments and so on. And then do what City do and go full throttle at the end of the season, right? That has to be the plan. Well, I thought so because clearly it's not worked. Well, it's not working. and I have a theory on why that is you're so obsessed to throttle now yeah right

15:51Jim Campbell: well I think if you look at the swagger that Man City are playing with at the moment Guardiola has kind of set this blueprint of how you time a season when you play in so many competitions and I think clearly Arteta wants to do a similar thing the difference is that Man City are enjoying their football and Arsenal don't look like they've enjoyed their football for a long time and it's like they've forgotten how and it's starting to sort of transfer to the fans it's a real sort of pit of your stomach dad's drinking again kind of vibe massively he says it's fine it's not going to be fine We know it's not going to be fine.

16:19Pete Donaldson: But he says it's fine. Arteta says this is all fine. Oh, he's punched another tile in the bathroom. Remember, Peter, this is not that forum. All right, fine. When do I get my forum? In your own time. All right, fine. I keep telling you that. But it feels like, to me, Peter, but on that, I think the ADD's the best place for them to play. It's away from home. Maybe it is. It's a competitive match away from home. Let's get it done. But it feels to me that for a little while now, Arsenal are wanting Manchester City to lose the league title yeah massively rather than Arsenal wanting to win it they've forgotten

16:53Jim Campbell: they have agency indeed yeah

16:56Pete Donaldson: absolutely yeah I mean you said for a number of years under Wenger going all the way back that football kind of happens to Arsenal and that's what's happening now it would have been I mean a home game against Bournemouth when Manchester City have to go to Chelsea I know Chelsea are in disarray but you're thinking to yourself right lads let's put this away because we can really put the pressure on them and what happens boom suddenly Man City go bloody hell there it is come on we've got them and that's what it feels like right now it seems absolutely remarkable we will preview the game of course at the end of the head on Friday's preview show but I don't think for a moment this will happen but you've got to go out swinging now yeah absolutely you have to you have to be proactive totally don't be reactive for every situation around you you've got to just it's in their hands it's in Arsenal's hands at the end of the day

17:49Jim Campbell: they have to be proactive with it but look we've seen this film they'll go out there to try and not lose and they will lose can't do that can't do that honestly

17:57Pete Donaldson: it's the inevitability of it that must be so utterly frustrating

18:01Jim Campbell: well it is frustrating as well of course we Arsenal fans listen to this kind of maybe hoping for a little bit of a kind of injection of positivity but there's a point right where if it's happened so many seasons in a row in such similar ways where you see the same things play out, you just got to be realistic about what to expect. And I want to be really, really wrong. I hope that they come out swinging or that they change something drastically enough that by hook or crook they win or at least don't lose. But I can't sit here and say with any emotional honesty that I actually think that will happen.

18:37Pete Donaldson: The only... I was trying to think of recent Premier League winners. And I think one of the... A number of frustrations that neutrals have, and I know Arsenal and rightly shouldn't give two hoots what neutrals think but I think one of as I say a number of frustrations that neutrals have is it is that lack of going and being proactive and go and bloody win the damn thing looking back at recent Premier League winners obviously we've had you know Guardiola's Man City have just been phenomenal slots Liverpool last season were great with Salah you know there were things to hang your hat on Klopp's Liverpool as well even if you go back to the days of Manchester United winning the Premier League titles, which does seem a long time ago now, but they did do it, kids, trust me.

19:19Pete Donaldson: The only ones I could find where it's a teensy bit similar was Mourinho's second spell as Chelsea manager, where they were very good in the first half of the season. The second half of the season, they were limping over the line. They were slightly laboured, but Mourinho being the master, or as he was back then, of knowing how to get a 1-0. and forgive me if this is wrong but when they went to the Etihad that season they got a 1-0 victory I think Ivanovic scored you know you win the big games even if it's by a slender margin it's not pretty but you get it done he knew how to do that back then he was a master of it and the other one of course is Leicester City well Leicester City were in a situation where like bloody hell none of us have been anywhere near anything like this before and then Ranieri started masterminding the sort of the 1-0s and so on but they were getting it done and that's the difference is people were like oh how are Leicester they switched up Leicester earlier on in that season quite swashbuckling.

20:11Pete Donaldson: They'd come back and then when they gave Man City a bloody nose, and there were so many of these moments. Whereas Arsenal, yes, they've been efficient to a point because they are top of the league, so let's, you know, they're still top. Also, they've scored the second most goals in the league, which sounds mad, but it's true. It's a very low-scoring league this season compared to last season. Well, it is. But this now, they're drifting. Yeah, totally.

20:33Jim Campbell: And if you want to win a league title, you cannot drift. Yeah, and another problem is as well, right, so when Liverpool were really, really far ahead last season, they had a couple of off games and it didn't matter because they put away games where they were, let's say hypothetically 2-0 up against Wolves. And you know, they went on to win the equivalent of those games. So they had the cushion there. They had the points in the bank really. And Arsenal can't really complain about their own failures, meaning they don't have that cushion. And they certainly can't complain about the fixture at the end of the season as well.

21:04I mean, pretty much every Premier League fixture, apart from Manchester City, is very winnable. and if they find themselves in the position where you know Man City who have got to go to I think they're playing Villa aren't they? Well they've got to go to Everton who are playing very well inexplicably possibly in a Champions League frame of mind and they're obviously playing Aston Villa on the last game of the season there's just no excuse for Arsenal really

21:26Jim Campbell: No absolutely but all of those games look really difficult now that's the problem you get into that frame of mind and obviously the fans can feel like that and that's fine but as we've all been saying Arteta and those players everyone involved with the club has to shift that mindset I just want to know what individuals are going to step up for you so all those teams that Marcus has just named there Leicester they had Mahrez and Vardy stepping up Chelsea had Lampard Drogba stepping up Manning out Van Persie whoever it may be Liverpool Salah recently as well who is going to step up for Arsenal who are the individuals who are like well they're all defenders who are in a good moment and look like they can change games and define games because Saka looks he looks gone doesn't he Saka's having a a poor season and he's also having a situation where he can't put a run of games together which is the same as Odegaard right they're not they're not reliable because they're essentially never anywhere near their peak Havertz is the same he's you know he started quite well coming back from his injury his form's dipped a little bit the one spark was Ezza perhaps who was really starting to come into form so he's fit again now he came on and he did fairly well with the sort of scant kind of service he got so he's one you might put a bit of hope on and again this is a game that would have been crying out for Ethan Mugnery I know that he's a young man and he's probably not going to win a game like that on his own but he is a player who's always looking forward he's always looking to create I thought it was a mistake to loan him out he used to be wise after the fact but it felt inevitable that he would be needed at some point I just think you need that definition at the business end of the season it's such a cliche about individuals stepping up and such all of those teams had them and I'm just looking at Arsenal going who's going to step up I know Rice is a good Saliba are not going to let you down but who are the attacking players the forward players who's going to go to the Etihad and you're going to scuff it out and then the 85th minute somebody pops up with a winner I don't know who's going to do that yeah really really poor

23:19Pete Donaldson: Bournemouth fans will be saying for crying out loud are you going to mention how good we were well we are sorry it's taken that long but they were excellent and you know sorry Bournemouth fans to do this to you but in Iriola as a coach he's destined for great things David the way he gets them playing I know this season you know I mean with that victory they move up to 11th 12 games unbeaten in the Premier League but exactly since Semenyo left that runs come out of nowhere and like I know what you're about to say they have been underwhelming at times absolutely and they did struggle for a bit but bearing in mind who they've lost this season as well their best player Semenyo left they've done remarkably well and they're still in the hunt for European I mean this is how good they are they're only two points off Brentford that's how good they are this season they've been fantastic I think they've got one of the best strikers in the Premier League in Krupe I mean what an absolute it's going to be tragic when Chelsea sign him for 70 million and he gets Bournemouth down there Bournemouth don't sell to them please don't please don't and then I honestly think and now he's over his injuries and it's really good to see him in Alex Scott what a player that is the confidence and the the the competence that you want for someone just the way he stroked

24:30Jim Campbell: he's got a he's only 22 yeah I think he's got a really really big future Alex Scott he was really impressive and someone else I'd like to sort of give their flowers was Alex Jimenez who was absolutely superb yesterday as an attacking option and as a defensive option he took the ball off Gabriel's foot when he'd been converted to a striker right at the end took a bit of a nasty knock in that moment as well but just sort of shrugged it off he's a really really good player yeah

24:58Pete Donaldson: phenomenal before we talk about Man City I'd just like to say there was one former Arsenal man did win a trophy on the weekend little Jack Wilshere there we go hey there's your trophy there's the legacy look what happens when you leave Arsenal Luton Town beats Stockwell County the NFL trophy file well done them well done Jack right everybody coming up after this Spurs are officially in the relegation zone and Man City are on the march

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26:49Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, Senior Sports Editor from The Guardian. Whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. From one of the fastest-growing soccer newsrooms, The Guardian brings you in-depth World Cup coverage that gets into the winners and losers on and off the pitch. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective, and a squad of Americans, including me, on the ground with the U.S.

27:20national team. Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge, try On The Ball. It's a game in the Guardian app and it's really, really fun. And if you're into stuff like this...

27:28Pete Donaldson: Well, I think the problem is if you give footballers an inch, they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much. It's a bit too real.

27:35Jim Campbell: Maybe you could just talk with a slight delay. Be sure to listen to our Football Weekly podcast for on-the-move expert analysis. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. Most all-in-one HR systems are a patchwork of disconnected and manual tools. Rippling is totally automated. If you promote an employee, Rippling can automatically handle necessary updates, from payroll taxes and provisioning new app permissions to assigning required manager training. That's why Rippling is the number one rated human capital management suite on G2, TrustRadius, and Gartner.

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29:01If you're going to lose,

29:03Jim Campbell: you could say the players need to be more aroused than they were.

29:06Pete Donaldson: Back to the football ramble, everybody, where we're all very aroused at any given day. Martin Key and they're having another crack at a coherent sentence. Thanks to friend of the ramble, Carlos Alberto, for sending us that clip. and well done on your World Cup win in 1970, Carlos. They sent us that on the Discord, of course. You can become a friend of the Ramble too. Search patreon.com forward slash football ramble or click that join button on YouTube to get involved. Right then, Chelsea 0, Manchester City 3. Chelsea, we thought, went 1-0 up for a moment, didn't we? But it was rightly ruled out for offside.

29:38Pete Donaldson: And then the second half happened. Man City, they've narrowed Arsenal's lead to six points. They've got a game in hand. They were brilliant in that second half. And that second half performance with what Manchester City did. Chelsea did a bit of the early running and showed a bit of something. Pep gets them at half-time. Right, come on, lads. Let's go out and win this game and show a bit of intent. My goodness, didn't they? That second-half performance by Manchester City, sorry to go back to Arsenal for a moment, but inevitably we are going to compare the two because they're in the title race.

30:08Pete Donaldson: That performance there is just something I don't think Arsenal have got in their locker anymore.

30:11Jim Campbell: No, they've had a couple of second-halves like that this season where they've come out and been much, much better. but this was a really extreme example of that because it was pretty even in that first half, wasn't it? Chelsea had a decent amount of the ball and they made a few chances and it looked kind of tentatively like it could go either way but this is the thing with Guardiola, isn't it? He's got the opportunity to have a little tweak at half-time. Liam Rosinia probably sounds like he's doing a pitch on Dragon's Den at half-time which perhaps isn't quite as inspiring and I did see, when I was sort of holding out some hope in my head for this game I did see someone pitch it as Liam Rosini versus Pep Guardiola.

30:47Jim Campbell: I was like, yeah, actually, it's only going to go one way, isn't it? But it was pretty dramatic the way it went because they put their foot on the game as much as they put their foot on the ball and really, really stamped that authority. They're unplayable, really. Again, this isn't slightly unfair jokes about Liam Rosini aside. This isn't really a bad Chelsea team and they weren't putting in a bad performance. They're unpredictable and they're a bit inconsistent and there's a lot of incoherence to them. but they're you know they're not easy to beat 3-0 at home

31:17Pete Donaldson: yeah I mean yes it's their third loss on the bounce and they are in a bit a disarray but they are still in the hunt for Champions League so I take your point it's not the easiest place clearly in bad form of course yeah yeah yeah still but you know I see what you mean but the way Man City turned the screw I mean Nico O 'Reilly popping up with another crucial goal and then you see Ryan Shirky doing what he does that pass for Mark Gay unbelievable unbelievable And Gay's finishers. I mean, we know Gay can finish. You remember that goalie score for Palace at Villa Park? Yep. Which was absolute beauty.

31:47Pete Donaldson: But, I mean, he's finished there. Yeah. Like Gabriel Batistusa. I was going to say, it's like when Rio Ferdinand, every now and then from centre-back, he used to put it with a nice bit of technique. It reminded me of that. But, yes, Cherky needs some plaudits because ultimately football's shit and boring to watch these days, but Ryan Cherky isn't. He's, what an absolute stunning player. Thank God for Ryan Cherky, seriously. Yeah. Well, when he came to Manchester City, I remember Vish making the point that he's quite an un-Pep-like player, that he is a little bit more of a maverick and how will he do it?

32:18Pete Donaldson: And I thought, well, interesting though, this phase of Pep's career at Manchester City, that's where you need something a bit different. You need a joker in the park. Exactly, if your powers are waning. We've literally just been chatting about Arsenal. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, maybe we thought that was Ezzer to a degree, maybe. I don't know. But Cherky is definitely, I think, again, a hugely enjoyable player to watch. He's having some lovely moments. like fans around the country have seen him and just delight in that kind of play. But what about the third goal? If you talk about being on the front foot, showing a bit of intensity and wanting it and desire, Jeremy Dock, who showed that in Bucket Loads, Pete Donaldson, it's like, there's the mistake.

32:59Pete Donaldson: Bang. Thanks very much. We're winning this title. I'm a player in an advanced position who can also score goals. Forget about the defenders who just scored two goals. I can do it as well. I'm also incredibly quick.

33:11Jim Campbell: And also, to rob Moises Caicedo of the ball there as well, that's not easy.

33:16Pete Donaldson: But that again, that's a heist, that is. It is. The manner of that goal, it just shows you he's waiting to pounce and bang. And it was just like, it's such a statement of intent. Again, the mood is so different. They go away from what is, as you say on paper, one of their more difficult games for the rest of the season. And they win it 3-0. And it could well come down to goal difference. I know that. he perished at Thornton. It will come down to points.

33:44Pete Donaldson: I think we know in which way. I'm trying, Jim. I am trying. Yeah, so you know my thoughts on Manchester City generally, but they don't have to be great to win the league. I said that. Nobody has to be great to win the league this season. You've just got to show a bit. I was going to say it's about mentality. If you look at Guardiola's comments in his press comments before this as well, he just said, the players know what to do. And you know he's not really saying much in the dressing room nowadays he's just going look you know what to do go and do it but he can't believe his luck that they're in this position now because Guardiola knows in previous Premier League seasons they would be nowhere with regard to the title like last season they were nowhere any season before that Liverpool or even Arsenal they would have been there this season he's thinking I can't believe we are well in this just keep your heads keep your heads

34:32Jim Campbell: and use your experience and use your ability that's all it is it's like all of that stuff looks so complicated for Arsenal and so simple for Man City. And part of that is the genius of Guardiola, isn't it? It's the way that he manages pressure and to the point where they're the protagonists in pretty much any situation they're in.

34:49Pete Donaldson: And it's even more going for Arsenal because if it did Man City go on to win the league, that Man City fan with the bottle with Arsenal in it. That's an image we've seen. What is that reference? Is that just like Arsenal drinking tears? I thought it was tears. It's multi-purpose, prop-based banter. Yes, there you go. Thank you, Jim. Because who drank from the Arsenal Cup? Oh, it was Thomas Frank. Was that Thomas Frank, wasn't it? So I thought that was a reference to that, maybe. I mean, he's brought it from home. It's pathetic, but good on him. But the thing is, I mean... You know what, I totally agree.

35:21It's cringeworthy stuff. It's classic modern Premier League fan behavior. Dad fan.

35:27Pete Donaldson: Yeah. It doesn't offend any group of people. Right, yeah, okay. I was offended. Okay, fine. Do you know what I mean? when those 115 charges come down right stick a few more on for that prick yes can we do one for the kit as well I'm sure that's sports direct being at the front of the shop absolutely levels it really is I think it's got

35:53Jim Campbell: raindrops on it isn't it on the actual pattern of it yes the Arsenal's tears oh

35:58Pete Donaldson: there you go it all makes sense in the end you see and of course Man City's next game is Arsenal at the Etihad. And they've got tears to prepare unlike high-flying Champions League Arsenal. That's very true. Gentleman, before we move on from Manchester City, did you see that their former goalkeeper Edison hit a camera in the Turkish league? He went down injured and there was an object thrown by the crowd during Fenerbahce's 4-0 win against Kaiserspor and then a camera swooped down to get a real good close-up of him. Let's see that bruise on your head pal see if you're faking and he got up and just he just sort of like palmed the camera off

36:41Jim Campbell: didn't he which when you describe it like that it makes it sound like Edison's been a little bit petulant but when you see the actual footage of it the arm of the camera is so long it's creepy it's so close to it yeah like it's like Slenderman yeah yeah yeah or something from like War of the Worlds it's like it's like a real invasion of his privacy and it was so close you could hear the mortars probably like with a friend of the show Dan Bernard he's he does all that care but doesn't he with the old the gold line camera is he at large is that what you're saying is it Big Dan B in Edison's face no

37:14Pete Donaldson: Big Dan B he's not doing that he would never do that far more respectful far more respectful of the players and he works in the Premier League okay he's not in the twilight of his career that he has to go to Turkey that's what's going on there right gentlemen let's turn our attention to the bottom of the Premier League also the middle of the Premier League as well because Sunderland are involved in this chat they've beat Spurs 1-0 We'll get to Sunderland in a minute, David, if you don't mind, because the real story here, I would suggest, is that Spurs are in the relegation zone. They've been in a relegation zone since Friday, for crying out loud.

37:44Pete Donaldson: West Ham obviously beat Wolves. Spurs had the chance to climb out of the rally zone, and they didn't. They lost 1-0. They are winless in 14 Premier League games and are yet to win in 2026. Oh, deary me. I mean, it's looking very, very bleak. I mean, only Derby in 2008, Sunderland in 2003 and Swindon Town in 1993 have had longer winless runs to the start of a calendar year in the Premier League than Spurs. And all three of those sides were relegated.

38:17Jim Campbell: They've also not won a single game after going behind all season, which is another sort of damning statistic. Yeah, it's quite hard to fathom, isn't it? I still don't quite believe it. I know what you mean. They usually are trailing at half-time, so it's kind of an improvement. They had a good first five and a good last five, but everything else in the middle just seemed to be second to every ball, just completely bereft of confidence. It's been Dr.

38:47Pete Donaldson: Donaldson struggling with this one. I mean, David, presumably you watched the game, as did I, being a Sunderland fan. I mean, other than a fortuitous deflection, I mean, it seemed like it was going to be nil-nil, but then this is what Sunderland do. and they got the victory Sullen were physical they were very very physical this game and I think that was the prime objective and they knew how vulnerable Spurs were and Labrie has clearly said look, rough them up a little bit and unsettle them roof them up a bit and yeah, Spurs never ever settled and I thought they were honestly really really bad they never looked like scoring they didn't create anything did they?

39:28no, they didn't create anything I don't think you can criticise their effort. I know what you mean. There was effort there. They were running. They were active. So I think the fans are watching that. They can be happy with that. But the execution level is so bad.

39:45Pete Donaldson: I mean, with De Zerbe's first game in charge, of course. Yeah. Do you think then it's early days for that? Because, you know, the comments he made after the game, he said, look, we didn't deserve to lose the game. and he said, with regard to his approach, he said, I can be a big brother, father. They don't need a coach. They don't need to improve football. They can play better and they will play better once we reach a different level of confidence. And I think we'd all agree on that. Yeah. That clearly it's a confidence issue here. So the start of his reign there is quite literally run a bit more, get yourselves in there a bit more and then perhaps the, I don't know, dare I use the word creativity and even goal-scoring touch might start to come back in.

40:31Pete Donaldson: But there are not many games left. You're seeing that, but they still tried to play out the back through Kevin Dancer. Yes. When he came up. Yes. And that is not the way to go. If you see all that, then that's not the way to go. Some love that. They just pressed them up and Spurs clearly, obviously vulnerable at the moment, like I said, low in confidence. They panicked a bit. I mean, he went attacking. I mean, Mawani, Richarlison and Solanke is the front three. A little bit more attacking. But I mean, Peter, it's just... Did the VAR kind of check on the penalty sort of not stuffing out a little bit?

41:09Because...

41:09Pete Donaldson: It was never a pen in the first half. Never a pen. No? No chance. But the act of it kind of getting overturned. I mean, from one camera angle, it looked very suspect. But obviously, number 15 got its foot in it. Yeah. I know what you're saying, Pete. Do you know what I mean? When you're down there and you need a moment like that and it's taken away. they had no look by the way my word they couldn't catch a break with anything in that game the goal was so unlucky really but even with Romero coming off you know he looked bereft I mean he was very emotional understandably at this point in the season he'd probably worried about missing the mark well he might be I was going to say Kunusevsky's come out and said he's really confident about making the World Cup

41:50Jim Campbell: not the time

41:51Pete Donaldson: Dijon not the time you've got to get on the pitch for Spurs mate it was probably probably lucky not to be sent off. 100%. I didn't think you would... What? He was already on a booking. Oh, I was on a booking. Yeah, and he shouldn't have been booked earlier. Right. But he was, though. Poor on me, they're most of that, man. That's not the point. All evens itself out, does it? Pushing Romero. Oh, hello. You're up north now, man. And there it is. Get to the north.

42:26What do you think, Peter? I think he should have gone for that personally. But on a yellow, I can't speak to the first yellow, but that one looked... I mean, bearing in mind what the result was, like pain. Yeah, well, it was such an unnecessary push.

42:39Pete Donaldson: I mean, we talked about Canate, or you guys did, in the Champions League when he totally unnecessarily pushed whoever it was against PSG and was lucky not to give a penalty away. This was obviously up the other end of the pitch,

42:51Jim Campbell: but not quite as egregious as that. Not quite, but I've seen people say, oh, he only gives him a little shove. it's like yeah but if you only give someone a little shove off a cliff it's not a good problem isn't it

43:03Pete Donaldson: it's the butterfly effect isn't it yeah he could have grabbed that branch on his way anyway but a good win for Sunderland though in 10th again just one point off Brentford to use them as the reference point we know they've had a good season we'll talk about the teams that are vying for those European places who are in the centre of the pack. But Sunderland are definitely in there. Push on. Need to push on. I don't want anybody on their phone looking at all-inclusive holidays and wherever they're planning their summer trip. Win your games and try and get it to Europe. Seriously, it's there. Yeah, there's a Slovenian away trip in there somewhere, isn't there?

43:41Jim Campbell: Honestly, the race for the Europa League spots is going to be amazing this season.

43:44Pete Donaldson: It will probably go down to the last game. Yes, well, we will talk about that in the next part when we talk about Brentford and Everton. We've got the little matter of West Ham beating Wolves 4-0 on the Friday night. and this a disastrous start for the weekend for Tottenham Hotspur because West Ham not only did they win the game they won it with a bit of panache you know Mavropanos and Castellanos among the goals Castellanos it's what you want you sign a guy to score goals I know he's not scored that many but he's playing for a side who haven't been scoring that many goals gets a couple like that and I tell you you look at the bottom of the table and you think right what's the feeling like among these teams well we talked about Spurs my goodness Leeds United who are who are down there as well yes they've got to play tonight but Leeds are in good fighting spirit every game it's like right up and at them lads you know they're in with a fighting chance again if you'd have offered it to Farker now that with you know the business end of the season you'll be three points above the relegation zone you'd have bitten your little hand off and been delighted to do so West Ham were dead and buried in January nobody saw this I honestly thought they'd be gone by March really the way it was going.

44:52Pete Donaldson: They've turned it around. You saw the scenes in the stadium. They're on the march. They are. Forest showed a bit against Villa. Good point. You know, again, there's something there. Spurs are in. We've already talked about it, but West Ham themselves, I mean, they're climbing, David. Yeah, they're looking really good and look, I know a lot's made of West Ham striker signings in a particular era and somebody says, oh, there's like 80 or something and this is how they've all turned out. I mean, it's the next one, but still. Yeah, I mean, they brought two, didn't they? Just to be sure. Surely. But Castellanos is doing what you wanted from him.

45:30Totally. He's getting these important goals. And look, Leeds have got Calvert-Lewin, West Ham have got Castellanos, who Spurs got, who's dragging Spurs out. You need these sort of players who can drag you out. Sorry,

45:39Jim Campbell: David, they've got Brazil international Richarlison, they've got France international and, you know, World Cup finalist Randall Colomar and they've got England international Dominic Solanke. I stand corrected. it just highlights how mad this situation is, isn't it? But on this game, I watched this game and it would be tempting if you didn't to think that Wolves had reverted to type and sort of gone back to their shambolic form from earlier in the season. And yet it wasn't like that. It wasn't a formal match at all. West Ham were really good. And I think, you know, I think we have to acknowledge that when Nino Espirito Santo took over, it wasn't great, was it?

46:17Jim Campbell: There was talk of sort of a lot of disharmony in the dressing room and the tactics on the pitch were a little confusing. Some of the team selections were confusing. I thought he'd go. I thought he'd go. He felt like he was on the break. He absolutely did. But he's obviously turned that around. It's a sign of what a good manager can do when they've got a little bit of time. And you just think if he'd been there from the beginning of the season for whatever reason, West Ham just wouldn't even be in this conversation. And their form suggests that as well. And that's really the biggest problem for Spurs.

46:45Jim Campbell: If it's a shootout between them both now based on the form coming into it, then obviously West Ham are way out in front. So let's be clear. They came here for a shooter.

46:53Pete Donaldson: They did come here for a shooter. All right, coming up after this, could Igor Tiago win the golden boot?

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48:33Pete Donaldson: Welcome back, everybody. Now then, Brentford 2, Everton 2. Good game in West London. And Kiernan Dewsbury Hall rescued a point for the Toffee men in the battle for European places. So the sides are seventh and eighth, equal on points. Brentford above Everton with a marginally better goal difference. But it's all to play for there. I mean, pretty remarkable. I mean, Brentford, my goodness. We're going to talk about them and Keith Andrews tomorrow on the mailbag a bit more. But let's talk about them a bit now. I mean, one point off Chelsea in seventh. there are six games to go. It's stunning, really.

49:13Pete Donaldson: There's no other word for it. I mean, never in their wildest dreams did they think at the start of the season they would be there. I mean, if you said to them, survival, I think a lot of people, maybe Brentford fans, I don't know, but perhaps one or two of them have said, come on, we have a bit more confidence than a lot of the neutrals here. But I think a lot of them may well have taken survival, mid-table, probably, because that's where they are in the Premier League. They're firmly in the top half. And they are pushing for a bloody potential. Again, if Aston Villa do everybody a solid here and win the Europa League, which they might well do, and six places, it's there.

49:51Pete Donaldson: It just seems remarkable that Brentford could do it. And Everton as well. More remarkable with Brentford, you would say. But my goodness, these two sides have worked their bollocks off this season. Everton in particular don't concede many. Brentford have got one of the best forwards in the league. and there's a lot going for these sides, David. I was going to say, both have been well beyond expectations. Yeah. I remember a lot of discussions at the start of the season and people were like, oh, all three promoted sides can't go down. Who's going to get dragged into it? Obviously, a lot of people said Wolves.

50:20But a lot of people said Brentford. A lot of people did say Brentford. Some people said Everton as well might do as well. The new stadium might not reclimatise to it and what have you. But yeah, absolutely astonishing from both of them that they're in this position. And this game had that riding on it between them.

50:33Jim Campbell: Because this is more than Brentford just kind of doing better than expected. isn't it? This might be the best season they've ever had. Yeah. Which is quite something.

50:42Pete Donaldson: And again, to give you an insight on tomorrow's mailbag, we're basically talking about the answer to the question is Keith Andrews manager of the season? Will he be in for that? Of course, absolutely. But yeah, but these two sides and it also spoke volumes that perhaps the two best players or the best performers on the pitch with the goalkeepers, you know, Pickford was great but Keller in particular was superb. He's a man of the match. Both really good goalkeepers. Yeah, but what a move for Keller. because when he moves from Liverpool, you're thinking, is he going to be next after Alisson? And he would still have to wait a bit, but then, of course, they get Mameda's filling in.

51:14Pete Donaldson: And Kelleher, who has played in huge games, he's played in cup finals, he's won trophies with Liverpool. You're thinking, Brentford, oh, okay, well, are you going to be battling relegation? He's played his part in this. Brilliant move for him. Again, it shows you how well the club is run, but Igor Thiago has been, what a standout player he is. 21 goals for the season. He's won behind Erling Haaland. I know Haaland, by, well, definitely by Haaland standards but he's had a bit of a dry period in the Prem for a bit. But Thiago Jim, brilliant player. He will go to the World Cup with Brazil. Again, considering the injuries he had last season, he didn't play that much.

51:50Pete Donaldson: I don't think anybody would have thought he would have a season like this.

51:53Jim Campbell: So he's 21 in the Premier League alone, by the way. He's got 24 in all comps, which is really, really something. His goal was off his belly button. That's when you know it's going well. We were talking about... What was the second goal? Yes. Yeah, he didn't take a penalty with his belly button. No. I didn't think I needed to clarify that. Okay. But I think we were talking about a dog's o 'klaxon, weren't we, the other week? And I think a goal with a weird body part should also go in the mix for that particular klaxon. But yeah, I mean, as you mentioned, he came into the season as a bit of an unknown quantity because he comes in to replace Tony last season and he's really unfortunate with injuries.

52:29Jim Campbell: So we don't really know what his level is. I was sort of really curious about him for that reason but even I you know didn't expect it to be to be this good like 20 plus 20 goals in a Premier League season is actually very rare across the board so hopefully first Brazilian to do it at the Prem which is also surprising isn't it but again kind of tells that story doesn't it hopefully this isn't like a Me Too thing but it doesn't look like that's the case he's very mobile score this amount of goals go to Chelsea score five goals no don't stop that Norby Croupy's going to Chelsea, man. The old can't go down, can't they?

53:07Pete Donaldson: But if you listen to this and you're a striker and you've not quite hit your straps yet, you're not up-and-coming striker, and Brentford offer you, it make you an offer, you go there. Because they are... Go Everton as well? No. No, don't do that. Those kind of teams. Don't be silly. No, Brentford in particular, they are the West London Atletico Madrid when it comes to... What are you talking about? Kingmaker. Yeah, the kingmaker to make you a king. Of goals. they are the West London Atletico Madrid Peter right okay strikers just come and go and it doesn't matter sell them off for a big old profit it's you go back to Wally Watkins and you know Wisser and Tony and Neil Malpher as well well that's they've got good money for them fair fair but like honestly it is like Atletico Madrid-esque obviously you know

53:52Jim Campbell: tongue in cheek slightly but still another big thing I think for Everton is Gerard Bramthwaite's back he's sort of been in and out and he's a fantastic player yeah and hopefully he can stay fit for the running. Probably difficult for him to get in contention for a certain plane right now, but who knows? Because he's a very, very good player.

54:08Pete Donaldson: So he's probably certainly staked a claim, I'm sure. Maybe a little too late, but certainly one in the future. But before the game, with regard to European spots and so on, Everton, David Moyes was asked about Everton's Champions League credentials for next season. And he said the word Champions League probably makes me shake a little bit at the thought of that. But he meant it in an exciting way. That's two words, David.

54:33Pete Donaldson: Let's start there, shall we? I did think that. Are you okay with the word league? Because that's fine. You're in a league. Best start believing in leagues, David. You're in one.

54:43Jim Campbell: There are some people quaking at the word champions, actually. True, yeah. He's channeling the spirit of other teams there.

54:50Pete Donaldson: But he did say, look, he said, any European football, if you'd have offered us European football at the start of the season, He said even if it was the tiddlywinks European Championships or something, he said we'd have been all over that. He said it would be massive for us if we could do it. But, you know, they're in there. I mean, Liverpool with that very routine victory against Fulham, that just gives them a little bit of breathing space. But with Chelsea floundering, you know, but it's not just that. Obviously, there's Europa League and there's also Europa Conference League. I mean, David, your thoughts on that?

55:19Pete Donaldson: Everyone's in their Brighton one again, obviously. Burnley, Brighton have won five of their last six. It's packed in there. it is up for grabs for a lot of teams here and it would make a huge difference particularly to Brentford but also Everton Brighton, Sunderland, Bournemouth I'm not going to put Fulham in there because I'm resigned to the fact that they're going to do it but massive for those sides if they go into Europe I was going to say I hate to get all wanky and use the word model but for those clubs that you've just listed and their model and how they operate this would be significant it might mean that they don't have to sell more players than usual they might be able to keep a certain player because they know they're getting the money in from them so it's really really good it's really nice to see as well because these clubs haven't gone crazy and they've had to sell players to do this and they're still motoring on and Brighton there's a few of them as well we talked about Bournemouth and they went out of form they found form Brighton as well I probably was saying oh it's really gone off the boiler Brighton the recruitment hasn't been good enough but they've all picked it up and it's at the right time of the season as well yeah I mean Brighton they're the form team in the Premier League if you look at the last six fixtures which is quite something and Everton as well I mean lest we forget their sort of marquee siding you might say at the start of the season has been injured a lot with Jack Greenwich I know he's on loan I wonder if they'll try and sign him permanently it'd be nice to see him back in the Champions League if they managed to get there indeed well done to Dewsbury Hall as well a thorough time at Chelsea and for him to find that move and have the success that he's had it's really nice to see yeah and I'm sure there's a lot of Evertonians who probably wanted him to have a shout for the England squad but it's so packed in the positions that he plays he's unfortunate even I think the plane's not big enough for everybody but there we are right then gentlemen let's end with some news from the continent of Europe we go to Germany how about this Union Berlin have appointed Marie-Louise Etter as their new head coach she becomes the first woman appointed to manage a men's team in Europe's top five leagues she's been named interim head coach of course because that is the modern way they currently sit 11th in the Bundesliga blimey O 'Reilly that is quite something Peter it is something else I was genuinely thinking that this was going to happen like 10 years ago but it never did I mean you know Berlin they tend to do things a little bit differently to everyone else in the league and yeah it can only be a positive thing I really hope she's a success there I worry financially that they're not quite there yeah I was going to say yeah she's coached the under-19s had success there very much kind of ready for the women's team job as well and that's where she was meant to be going for the upcoming season but she's got this now and it's going to be interesting to see how she does.

57:53Pete Donaldson: Yeah, I mean, there's been a few examples of this. Obviously, not in Europe's top five leagues. Yeah. Hence that stat. I mean, in Claremont Foot, for example, you know, Helena Costa appeared there, but she left under a bit of a cloud because she was a bit, you know, fed up and so on. Then Corrine Diacra came in, managed them for a few years, actually. And here Hannah Dingley managed Forest Green Rivals for a bit. But again, it was basically pre-season while they were trying to find another manager. She didn't manage a competitive game. So very few examples, but this is far more prestigious. Yeah, it's huge.

58:32Jim Campbell: And she's actually taken charge of them before when one of the previous coaches was serving a band. So she has actually been in the dugout for them before. It'd be interesting to see if this becomes more common because there's not really any logical reason to why a woman couldn't manage a men's team. we wrote this in a ramble book about when was that? yeah 2016 was it yeah and you know obviously you know women face certain challenges in leadership roles in very male dominated environments and that is likely to be something that will that will continue to be the case in football but it's not necessarily something that the right person isn't going to be able to deal with so it'd be very very interesting to see what happens obviously any woman who is in a situation like that where it doesn't necessarily go well you get certain people saying that oh it's women shouldn't manage men's team etc etc etc you get judged by a different standard you obviously do but that that isn't a barrier to success so yeah I wish her well

59:27Pete Donaldson: yeah interim until the end of the season so we shall see but quite the headline from Germany there huge how about that there we are everybody thanks for listening to the Football Ramble part of the ACAST Creator Network we're back tomorrow for the mailbag do subscribe to make sure you do not miss it until then thank you Jim thank you thank you David thank you thank you Pete fairly well And thank you, Union Money.

1:00:17Inside and out, we've got you covered. From one of the fastest growing soccer newsrooms, The Guardian brings you in-depth World Cup coverage that gets into the winners and losers on and off the pitch. Read, watch and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective and a squad of Americans, including me, on the ground with the U.S. national team. Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge, try On The Ball. It's a game in The Guardian app and it's really, really fun.

1:00:46And if you're into stuff like this...

1:00:48Pete Donaldson: Well, I think the problem is if you give footballers an inch, they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much.

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