My Fizzy Aunt

0:00Luke Moore: Saint anger round my neck, he never gets respect everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble! England were poor but glory for Bosnia hurts a governor. It's Wednesday 1st of April, I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Jim Campbell. And I'm Luke Moore.

0:24Luke Moore: Hello everybody It's Football Ramble time again And we're still basking in the glory Of international football Thanks to friend of the Ramble Rob Hills For giving us that intro line Reliably informed it was a line from a Metallica song Yeah, from St Anger There you are you see It makes sense in the end If you want to submit an intro line for a future episode and get an extended edition of today's show that we affectionately call Ramble Uncut, then become a friend of the Ramble on our Patreon. You'll also get plenty of extra benefits, as our Patreons found out last week. You see, everybody, World Cup fever has hit us.

0:58Luke Moore: It has hit us like a runaway freight train in the face. We are brewing our own beer for the World Cup this summer. Yeah, without a face, apparently. I am. Yeah, where are we going to... Which orifice are we... I don't worry. we're brewing our own beer a fact that I found very difficult to break to my friends with normal jobs who are having a bit of a shitty time when the weather got cold again what are you doing this week I'm actually going to go and brew my own beer yeah for a job amazing really I know it is absolutely incredible and we've not invited any of the production staff along with us because they've done nothing towards this they don't deserve it no exactly yeah so we shouldn't even

1:33Jim Campbell: really mention them

1:34Luke Moore: I don't think I don't think so you just write the read and we're going to the brewery so whether the So whether the Strait of Hormuz, or however it's pronounced, is open or closed, it doesn't stop us from brewing our own beer. For the World Cup this summer, of course. We gave our picture subscribers the opportunity to name it. Then we'd pick our favourite. So here are some of the notable submissions. That is an amazing benefit. If you pay$5 a month, you get to name a beer. It's great. Yeah. The first one, this is one for the Ravelheads, Beery Grintles. Yeah, very good. It's a deep cut, that. It's a deep cut, but it's one of Marcus's best moments on the show.

2:07So we have to give it a nod, really.

2:10Luke Moore: I think so. We've got our grain back. I vote for that one. Which was very enjoyable. I like that one. Rambled clowled. Yeah. A plastic cut chair at Lee Sharp's barbecue. Bit wordy, bit wordy. But still fun. A popular suggestion was Speller Artois, but I feel it's quite similar to something else. Copyright lawyers wouldn't let us get away with that. Yeah, I wanted Bishop's Finger. Bishop's Finger is very good. We do have a top two, though. Runner-up was Verdusion Ehanthelaga. I love that. Which is a lovely one. But the winner, and this is our favourite, of course, hence it's the winner, was submitted separately by a few different people.

2:45Luke Moore: Chris Edwards, Jonathan Parsons, and David Enzer. My Fizzy Aunt. It's great stuff. There we go. Come on. Hey. My Fizzy Aunt will be available. Will be available. It's going to be available to buy, right? You're going to be able to buy cases of it. You're going to be able to get it on tap in certain places in North London. Very, very specific places. Yes. and those three fine gentlemen Chris, Jonathan and Dave you've won a case of our beer yeah and an invite to a very special World Cup event we can tell you all more about very very soon very very soon Jim Campbell scratching the chin there so keep your eyes peeled for that but well done chaps a case of my fizzy aunt will be reaching you at some point this is happening by the way I'm not taking a piss I understand anybody listening will think is any of that true what's going on are you just stalling before you talk about England no no no all that is it's happening it's true it's that's what people think when they hear me talking about football is any of that true yeah so don't worry about it they're used to it it is true it's 100 % true yes it is I can't wait to get my lips around a lovely cold crisp fizzy aunt glass of my fizzy of Marcus's fizzy aunt or poor as an aunt yeah if you fancy getting involved in the Patreon fun head to patreon.com forward slash footballamble to sign up now I do recommend it bearing in mind what I have just said everybody now before we talk about England let's talk about Bosnia Herzegovina

4:11Jim Campbell: yeah

4:12Luke Moore: they drew one all with Italy they went through 4-1 on Pensy they hammered them on penalties they did hammer them

4:17Jim Campbell: on penalties and you could see early on that that was going to happen couldn't you just the body language and the kind of I don't know there was just a fear in the Italian players that wasn't there with the Bosnian players

4:28Luke Moore: the fact that they were in the penalty shootout you could see it was oh blimey this is going to happen again isn't it missing out on a third successive World Cup. Which is weird, because they had to work really hard to get to that point. Yes, they showed a bit of character. And then, I mean, it's easier for me to say, of course, but really it's a case of you've put yourself in this position, Gennaro Gattuso is your manager, finished the job, and they couldn't finish the job, and in reality they didn't even really come close to finishing the job on penalties, did they? But having gone a goal up, nice goal as well.

4:55Luke Moore: Lovely goal. Well, a poor goal from Bosnia hurts the governance point of view. They gave the ball away, of course, but it was a lovely finish. Oh, yeah, beauty, yeah. And he ran through in the second half, and I appreciate it. It was a rather long run through. Great foot race. You don't see enough foot races in football these days.

5:07Jim Campbell: Especially one where the striker's made it himself as well. He's not running onto anything. He's entirely fashioned that chance. He's in great form. I'll tell you something now. One of the greatest moments for me as a football fan was whenever I got to watch like a late stage canoe playing for Portsmouth in a foot race against any other player. He'd need about a 15 yard start. Yeah. And it would be like, is Wiley Coat going to catch the roadrunner? Yeah. It was... Yeah. People, honestly, it was so enjoyable to watch, even though you'd always be on the negative end of it, because Carnot is cementing his points.

5:37Jim Campbell: Well, I would imagine that the sheer size of his stride would trick you into thinking he's going to eat up that ground. He doesn't. But then, obviously, he's like 44. I'll tell you who's best in a foot race, without looking like he's rapid, is Erling Haaland. I mean, you have never seen a player eat up. There's some Borussia Dortmund goals where he eats the ground up, like the BFG. It's unbelievable.

5:59Luke Moore: Yeah, like I said, he's one of those creatures in a silent place. like the way he kind of moves and yeah, he's terrifying. A Quiet Place, you mean? A Quiet Place, yes. Which is a terrifying movie, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The scene on the bridge with a kid is awful. Yeah, and the nail. Oh! Get us back on some football markers. Yeah, I was going to say. Scared us. Sorry about that, everybody. Well, look, Moisey Kenny did run through and when he runs through for that chance, the ball just slightly sits up and he hits it over the bar. It was a good opportunity. It would have sent his country to the World Cup.

6:29Well, you think so. You would think so.

6:31Luke Moore: But I don't want to blame him because he's been in great form. But it's a funny old situation Italy find themselves in. I think it's just funny. Well, indeed. I mean, the last time they won a game at the World Cup was obviously against England. Yeah, classic. Must have been 2014. It was, yeah. And I love the fact that everybody quite rightly points out that in among all this, they still won Euro 2020. Yeah. Which is spectacular. It makes it more annoying. However, does it also mean, you know, are you glad that England lost that penalty shootout, Jim? because, you know, all this failing to qualify for the World Cup could have happened to us and that's exactly what would have happened.

7:03Luke Moore: You can't argue against it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, clearly there was

7:05Jim Campbell: some sort of curse at play that we weren't aware of and it's landed on them rather than us. Dodged a bullet really, didn't it? Yeah, very much so. I think the thing that is just so fascinating to me about this is that, you know, we all think back to Russia and Italy not qualifying for that. Yeah. That was a disaster. Yes. That was a disaster of an absolutely kind of epic, inconceivable scale and they've done it twice more since. Yeah. It's really impossible to overstate what a kind of massive disaster this is for Italy. This has led to a full-scale sort of identity crisis even before this. The fact that they were struggling to qualify.

7:42Jim Campbell: This will be so much worse now.

7:44Luke Moore: Do you know where they are right now? They're almost a bit like where Greece were, you know, in the noughties or whatever, you know, struggle sometimes to get to the World Cup, but they did win a Euro. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like, it's madness to think that. But that's kind of where their status is, which is utterly ludicrous. But you have to say it. I mean, look at the players that they have. You saw that footage, didn't you? I think a lot of people did, with some of the Italian players watching the penalty shootout between Wales and Bosnia-Herzegovina.

8:09Jim Campbell: And they seemed happy to be getting Bosnia-Herzegovina.

8:11Luke Moore: They did, which you can understand with the way Wales have equipped themselves in qualifying and the home support and so on, although the home support in Bosnia-Herzegovina was quite tasty, which is something that we've come to expect from that region. But you look at the players that they have. Donnarumma in goal, in midfield, Locatelli, Tonali, which is a decent midfield, DiMarco on the, you know, wingback, Calafiori in a back three, Bastoni, Mancini, and up front, you know, Moisey Kent. These are pretty experienced players. Some of them have won the Euros. You know, I understand it's not a vintage Italian team.

8:43Luke Moore: It's far from it. But it's enough to qualify for a bleeding World Cup.

8:48Jim Campbell: For the biggest World Cup ever. Yeah, that's another factor, right? Yeah, that is another factor, but that has, it feels to me like it's benefited more different confederations than Europe. Yes, I think it's not like the Euro. The Euros massively makes it easier. But like this one, it's benefited other confederations.

9:04Luke Moore: Particularly Africa and Asia, which I think is fair. Probably rightly so. But yeah, I mean, it's got to the point that if you don't qualify for three World Cups in a row, that's not an anomaly. That's a feature, not a bug, right? So now they're going to have to really think about the psychological effect of that. Because the other thing is about it, right? The path isn't that hard. You talk about the players, It's not a vintage style, as you rightly say. I think they've got a big problem with goal scoring. They've got players in that squad that scored a handful of goals. I think Mujicain's been scoring.

9:33I think he's a good player. I think he's a good player. But look, it doesn't compare to classic Italian.

9:40Luke Moore: No, but you don't need to. I mean, look at what Edin Giacco said after the Wales game. They mentioned about Italy. He went, well, you know, we're going to have to really up it. You know, Italy. Yeah, OK, we have the home advantage. But blimey, come on, we're playing Italy kind of thing. Now, he might again be thinking of yesteryear. But I also think that, you know, the group phase of the UA for qualifying for Italy, the only other team they had that were any good are Norway. And Norway have hit an amazing period of form and resources and players and all the rest of it. And all they really needed to do in that group phase, really, was match Norway's results against each other.

10:19right? So they got battered both times by the way. At home was it 4-1? Yeah, battered. You know. And then they go into another second round, because they obviously get to the players, so they come second in the group, because the rest of the group are terrible. And I mean, they're not playing necessarily good teams. I mean, Bosnia are fine. They're a fine team. And I can totally see, by the way, if you didn't have the right mindset, and you go to Bosnia with the crowd and the pressure and all the rest of it.

10:44Luke Moore: And the block of flats lit up with flares. The block of Fatsy appeared to apparently be on fire for the entire game.

10:50Jim Campbell: But in a way that everyone was absolutely comfortable with. Yeah, people were fine with it. People were toasting sausages on it. And then you have to manage... What it's basically come down to is a very long-winded way of saying basically what they had to do was manage a situation in Bosnia. And they really, really failed. Not just in the penalty shootout, but obviously the sending off as well. Bastoni. Which is...

11:07Luke Moore: I mean, that's a huge factor, right? The way that was celebrated was like a goal. Oh, yeah, it was. But it was... You know, it's like the far better boxer, you know, at the end of Rocky 5 I forget his name or Rocky Balboa was at the film and he dislocates one shoulder it's like oh we've got a chance here which actually happened in real life I've seen a boxing match where someone just got the shoulder and still won one arm it can happen it's not a given but I was going to ask you guys what you made of that decision by Bastoni to make that challenge because ultimately what I remember years and years ago Mourinho quite famously saying look just take the goal take the chance let them have the chance Act on a rumour as well.

11:45Let them have the chance. Because even if they score, we can deal with that. It's very hard to deal with it, 10 men, particularly away from home. So the decision making, which is what football is about, the highest level really, was lacking badly as well. So ultimately, again, they've only got themselves to blame. You can't really blame anyone else. And also,

12:02Jim Campbell: he's one of the players that you would expect to not make that sort of mistake. I think he's a really good player. He's got a decent amount of experience. He's a very, very good player. He's used to playing at a high level. And I think it's kind of indicative of the mindset that they've gone into this, not just this game really, but this whole qualifying campaign with where they are in a bit of an existential crisis because of not having qualified for the previous two World Cups. You can see it's like, it's haunting them on the pitch. It is, Jim.

12:28Luke Moore: And the haunting continues. And Italy's last knockout win remains the 2006 World Cup final. That's 20 year anniversary so they're not going to be there. That is absolutely extraordinary. But glorious for Bosnia-Herzegovina. we remembered when they qualified for a previous World Cup not that long ago well they're going to be back and did you see those Bosnia fans singing I am from Bosnia take me to America that's great well they're off and you saw the a visa for America held up by the crowd if you're going to do Tivo's and all that that's what you want

13:03Jim Campbell: it also had that absolutely classic like playground joke of sex yes please Benny Hill Americans love Benny Hill a little bit of carry on World Cup it's only the second time they are going to have played in the World Cup isn't it it was qualified in 2014 didn't get out of the group no they didn't also Edin Dzeko 40 year old Edin Dzeko at the World Cup that's brilliant and I think Guillermo Ochoa might be there from Mexico as well oh he'll be there don't you worry about that I think he might there's a chance because there's been a bit of an injury crisis for Mexico in the goalkeeping department I think he might be the oldest player I'm freestyling here so forget me this is off the dome piece I think he might be playing at sixth World Cup amazing really yeah amazing

13:44Luke Moore: Roger Miller turning out

13:45Jim Campbell: any news on the Colombian bird man I'm getting excited now just thinking about it well yeah don't worry we're doing England in a minute yeah yeah we'll bring you back down Roger Miller by the way is currently 73 years old so well get him in there

13:57Luke Moore: well of course Bosnia-Herzegovina going into a group with Canada, Qatar and Switzerland they've got a chance to do something there you'd be all over that you bloody would be but there's nothing more solid nothing more solid in the group stage than the Switzerland team. No, you're right. Which is so solid. They will 100 % get knocked out in one of the rounds between the group and the quarterfinal.

14:20Jim Campbell: Yep. Probably on penalties after a nil-nil. Yeah, they won't lose a game. Jan Sommer will play really well. Yeah, and they won't disgrace itself in any way but neither will they do anything outstanding at all. So bear that in mind, Bosnia and Herzegovina.

14:32Luke Moore: Are you a bit gutted for Canada manager Jesse Marsh who is quite punchy, isn't he? Especially these days. he had a bit of beef with Wales they're not going to play them he was suggesting that any Italian shirt should be burned if they manage to get to Canada's group in the World Cup which is an extraordinary thing he's throwing hands at everyone he is yeah he called for a Canadian shirt red out with every stadium packed with red shirts you know especially when they were to play Italy so he's already been back in Italy I'll tell you something I think Bosnia-Herzegovina may become aware of some of the things the assumptions he made that Italy would make that group that's going to be a good game

15:08Jim Campbell: Well, it's been motivation for them so far, isn't it? Obviously that video of, I think it was DeMarco, wasn't it? Kind of seeming pleased that they'd drawn Bosnia as governor was clearly fuel for them. But Jesse Marsh has this amazing way of kind of forgetting that jokes look different written down. When you see him say this stuff in the actual press conference, it's very obvious that it's quite, quite jokey. But he's also saying that they should be burning Italian shirts. It's only going to go one way. I think there's quite a big Italian population in lots of parts of Canada, isn't there? So perhaps that's part of the motivation behind it.

15:43Well, they've got no choice. Unless they want to be stubborn. I also think that Jesse is going... He's having a go at Wales. They've bottled it. He's having a go at Italy. They've bottled it.

15:54Jim Campbell: Yeah, it's working. Why stop? He's probably starting to think that no one wants any of his smoke. I think he's going to rise in confidence.

16:01Luke Moore: This is going to empower him. This is great. Right, gentlemen, I think it's time for a break. and after which, we're going to talk about England.

16:36Luke Moore: We'll be right back. five-star reviews, we are Chicago's trusted local experts. For all the right reasons, call 866-4-SEASONS.

16:53Are you excited to get started? Don't push me. You're on television. Doesn't look good. Doesn't look good, man. How about my security, Eric? It's not United, a big club.

17:04Luke Moore: Welcome back to the football, everybody. Always good to hear from Gary Cottrell. The great thing about that is, right, the little break ID thing is just called Gary Cottrell.

17:12Jim Campbell: And I was sitting there thinking it could be anything. Yeah, there's so many things. I thought it was going to be the Roy Hodgson one. Same. There was a recent one with Roy, didn't he? Yeah. All right. Here comes the comedy. That's what Roy said, didn't he, when Gary Cottrell got given the mic in the press conference. Proper, I'm too old for this shit vibe. This is the one thing that put me off perhaps not taking the job.

17:29Luke Moore: Anyway. Didn't think you'd make it down here. We've stalled enough. England zero, Japan one. Yeah. The Donaldson Derby. Yeah, the first time England have lost to an Asian opponent. Japan would have to play Newcastle if it would be the Donaldson Derby properly. Yeah. A great win for Japan. They seem like a likeable bunch, don't they? Good team. That lovely photo of them in front of their fans. They were at a good time at Wembley. All the fans cleaning the stands afterwards. They were. There was footage of that. Do you know what? I don't mind losing to a team like that. If only they could play in the Euros as well.

18:00Listen, I know this is going to sound like proper England fan chat and the people who are listening to this or watching this who aren't from England are going to laugh at me, but I don't mind

18:07Luke Moore: yeah it's a moral victory for us yeah genuinely I didn't want to win no no no genuinely Japan do seem like a really good team yeah they seem very very well coached what 18th in the world so they're in the top 20 I know that much too because everybody kept saying it indeed but do you know what though it's funny so my takeaway from this is obviously England were disappointing a lot of people will say it doesn't matter one iota and others will say we're not going to do very well and everything in between. That's how it goes. We've experienced this before. You say Japan are a good side. They are. I think, you know, they've had a very successful British tour.

18:48Luke Moore: Two 1-0 victories, two clean sheets. If you look at Japan, they were missing big players as well. Clearly England have got a side that shouldn't be losing to a Japan team, even though Japan are decent. But England are better, certainly in Europe. England were very experimental again. They were very experimental, but... If you look at Japan, despite some of the key players that they didn't have, they looked like they knew what they were doing. There was a plan, there was a style. And I think that that's something that maybe over the years we've become a bit wary of with England. We spoke about this, Vish, Pete and I, on the mailbag, what are our fears?

19:23And sometimes it is that lack of, what are we trying to do here?

19:26Luke Moore: Yeah, that was very evident. Yeah, and I think the last Euros, again, you could see, and it's not fair on Tuchel to mention that, but you could see England, they were very pedestrian. Okay, it was enough to get to the finals. But again, what was the approach? They were kind of figuring it out as they went and again, managed to kind of sort of bore their way and just be slightly better or more fortunate on their way to the final. This time around under Tuchel, there has been hope since, you know, some one or two impressive performances in the qualifying. So when it comes to these games, I'm more towards that I don't think this will matter at all.

20:02Luke Moore: camp. Not fully there, but you know, because you're still a bit disappointed as a fan and so on. But you kind of go, okay, was this completely experimental? It seems to be. Or is this too cool trying to find a plan, certainly without Harry Kane and thinking, okay, yeah, I'm not really too sure what we might be doing here.

20:23Jim Campbell: Yeah, I mean, my thoughts on watching the game were, coming away from it, trying to sort of essentially determine, like, what have I learned about so many different things, about essentially who's putting themselves in the running. As you mentioned, what type of style are we going to attempt to play? I've sort of come away from it just unsure. The whole thing was quite disjointed. It was very slow. There is an argument that 1-0 flattered us because Japan got in behind us twice more with good chances. The second one that Pickford saves in the second half is Pickford's the favourite for it. but that who ate a chance in the first half he was onside as well that could have been could have been 2-0 if that scoreline is worse you go oh we've got we've got a hole in our defence somewhere I thought Ben White was doesn't get back in time to stop the first goal so that's potentially an issue as always we'll come to the individual players I suppose yeah well we'll come to that area of the pitch yeah I just felt it was kind of lacking in invention really and the obvious thing to look at that is go well a lot of these players aren't going to be starting.

21:30Jim Campbell: A lot of the big hitters aren't even present. So it's essentially, I think a friendly like this becomes kind of an audition for individuals, doesn't it? You're looking at who can come in and make a difference if they have to or who can kind of force themselves into the starting 11. And I'm not sure anybody really made a good case. I think that's right. But listen, the problem is, and I don't think it matters, the result really, unless you get completely pumped in a way that's embarrassing and becomes a distraction because it's England. I don't think the result matters that much at this point. What I do think is a problem is that if this is the kind of best idea that Tuchel and his team have got for how England play without Kane, then it's a big problem.

22:11And the reason for that is pretty obvious, but the two things I would just say are that you need a forward, a centre forward for the system to actually work. You can't play a 4-2-3-1 and not have a centre forward and play in this way. The second thing is, If you have three, basically your front four is three number tens and a winger, Gordon was probably the best of them because he basically spent the most time doing what he's good at. But the issue is that Japan, who are well coached and have good players, basically saw straight away that all we need to do then is really gum up the middle of the pitch.

22:49Absolutely. And then you have to go out wide. You've got no wide players. And when you do finally go out wide, you've got no one on the end of the ball at the front. because you can't finish. Look, it was so easy. Yeah, and so, so easy. And so, if that is because, now, I don't know if this bit's the case, but I'm just going to put it out there for a discussion, I suppose. If that is because Tuchel doesn't feel comfortable essentially dropping players because, don't forget, we've got Eze as well who's been playing really well in a number 10 role. He can play wide fine, but he's also, Rodgers, Palmer and Foden at this point for England are straight dictionary definition number 10 players.

23:27And you can't play two of them, let alone three. You have to be able to pick. And I think it's odd that he's clearly concerned that without Kane, England have a problem, but he's not playing a deputy striker because maybe he feels like he hasn't really got one. Watkins has dropped off. Tony's nowhere now. Tony's the most similar to Kane as a player. He certainly was. I haven't seen him play for a year, but he was. And you've got perhaps maybe Rashford can play as a centre forward

23:55Luke Moore: Rashford's not going to play in the centre so what's he in which case cool I'll hand it back over to you what's he going to do well this is the question which is why I thought I mean it's not the first time he's done this with Phil Foden he did it briefly in an England game before I think it's pretty you know when Tuchel says England I want them to play like a Premier League team well okay I think you know that would kind of make sense although here I go again when you're playing in a World Cup and the weather is incredibly hot and you've come off of very long draining seasons to play like a Premier League side is quite a difficult thing to do.

24:26Luke Moore: But okay. But a Premier League side, I mean, lest I forget, you know, traditionally in this country, strikerless system. I mean, I know on these fair islands, you know, Craig Levine tried it, although I think that was away on the continent, you know, and he was... The fact we're talking about it at all. Indeed, yeah. With, you know, tongue in cheek. But I think, you know, he experimented with Phil Foden as a false knight. For the reasons you gave Luke, it didn't work. And I don't think it was ever going to work. my concern is that you know he's chucking some of the best players in there and it's just like well where's the balance to that

24:57Jim Campbell: and I just

24:58Luke Moore: you know it's not a balance you know and I think that was a little bit of a shame for one of the forwards I would rather Solanke Dominic Cavett-Lewin Ivan Toney Danny Welbeck whoever to play as a striker Solanke came on of course Solanke you are better off playing Solanke if you're going to if you say he's my guy I know Spurs are big as shit but he runs all day he's a good quality player he's scored goals he's my backup to Kane and he sits down with him and says listen Dominic you know you're the backup you've got two Dominics who's ever said that before outside of probably Eastern Europe England definitely never said that before you've got two Dominics in there they're going to be the backups to Kane and that's it there's also no the only thing I don't understand is I'm sorry to cut across here but it's just to kind of put a bit more of a fine point on it there's no actual reason to play Palmer or Foden.

25:51One, they've both been quite shit this season. Two, they're experienced enough and have enough caps to know what you get out of them. So why are you playing them?

25:58Luke Moore: Well, particularly Foden in that role. I mean, the only player out of the strikers who might be able to do that would be Jude Bellingham. You know, first season Real Madrid, Jude Bellingham kind of doing that. Obviously, he's injured, so he wasn't there to do it. But, you know, I hope that's the last time we see that. I hope that the lesson was, ah, we've tried that and it's not going to happen. But the problem for that is, I think, to give one of those players, Calvert-Lune or whoever, Solanke, a bit more of a go, maybe a little bit more confidence. The only thing I would say, though, this idea about, oh, well, what if Kane doesn't play?

26:33Luke Moore: You know, are we completely buggered? I mean, yes, I have enormous sympathy for that view. I think we all do. But again, lest we forget, England actually, really, in the last Euros, and sorry to hark on about it, but, you know, there's a lot of the same players over, often looked better when Watkins was on the pitch. because Kane was a little bit injured. I'm not saying, therefore, Watkins, for goodness sake, come on, I'm not saying that, obviously. But if indeed Kane is, you know, you have to go, right, we're going to play with another type of striker who's going to offer us something else. Those England players will have played with a striker of that type.

27:04Luke Moore: I don't think it's kind of like, hang on, what? I have no idea what this guy's going to do. So I think Tuchel now has to go, okay, who's the backup to Kane? As you say, Luke, and you've got to choose one or two others and go, right, that's how we're going to do it. and away we go.

27:19Jim Campbell: I don't think it's controversial to say that the backup to Harry Kane should be a striker, which is essentially

27:24Luke Moore: the conversation we're having here, isn't it?

27:26Jim Campbell: Where I do have a bit of sympathy, though.

27:28Luke Moore: That's a bit of a frustrating conversation to have at this stage.

27:29Jim Campbell: Well, where I have a bit of sympathy, though, is when you factor in how little time Tuchel has to do any sort of experimentation. So, essentially, he sort of gambled a half and a bit on trying something a little bit different to see if that might. Lee Carr, they'd already done that gamble, Jim. Well, indeed, indeed. But, you know, I don't think we're going to see it again because I don't think it works and I hope he doesn't persist with that. But yeah, I mean, I think you do have to factor that into this type of game. This is an England XI that will never play together again. It's highly unusual in a lot of different ways.

28:00Jim Campbell: So perhaps he's looking for a plan B but kind of starting the game in that sort of set up. There were positives as well. The positives were Elliot Anderson again. Lewis Hall when he came on was good. I thought Tiena Levermento was okay. There were some positives to be taken from it. Bowen did alright. as well, I think. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But the thing with Bowen, you never really, Bowen is a player, he never lets you down.

28:22Luke Moore: But I think those things you just said are to be expected. I mean, one of the takeaways I've thought over these two games is, you know, Rashford could be a weapon for England at the tournament because just such a willing, willing runner to go at people. I think off the bench, he's a... Perhaps off the bench because what he's been doing for Barcelona and a guy who's a bit more fresh because he hasn't been playing that much, you would say. But, you know, with England right now, I think most people would have their starting 11s and I think everyone's maybe the odd position here and there. One of the positions though is right back.

28:52Luke Moore: And that's where we mentioned Ben White. If I'm honest with you, I think obviously Rhys James will start for England. He's a phenomenal player. Liveramento will go as well. I wonder if Ben White... I know Tuchel, a number of these players, Tuchel's basically wanting to just meet them, I suppose. So again, as we said before, the first time that he potentially would meet people wouldn't be on the eve of the World Cup with injuries and form and so on. it would be now. I wonder though, Ben White's perhaps sort of played himself out of the running.

29:22Jim Campbell: Yeah, he wasn't particularly good, was he? As we mentioned earlier, he didn't get back in time into his position to have a hand in stopping the Japan goal. I thought he made some good forward runs, did some good work on that side of the game, but it wasn't particularly inspiring, was it? I wouldn't say. And I think, you know, Liveramento was better when he came on. He also, he looks like he's possibly lost a yard. As I said the other day on the show, it does take White a little bit of time to get back up to speed after an injury and we're not seeing the best of him at the moment which is not good timing for him yes

29:52Luke Moore: it's going to be Rhys James isn't it and then probably Liverpool yeah at least at least Ben White was there though you know an Arsenal player who was at international duty yeah I can come back as well if you want yeah Tuchel Tuchel did admit that Arsenal's international withdrawals looked suspicious but insisted Rice and Saka are genuinely injured yeah that Brazilian fella I'm on a further investigation there I don't actually you know I don't actually mind the players who are absolute dead certs to play just having a bit of a break I think the football is so relentless now that I mean I don't care what Arsenal do but I mean for England it would be good yeah I mean

30:30Jim Campbell: Rice and Saka both have tied it's no bad thing for them to have a break now Saka's planned himself out of a start for England anyway

30:36Luke Moore: yeah he is something that did happen during the course of a event did make me lick my lips and think oh yeah that could be a plan 2 for 1 on Fanta's D or E in the stands was it? he brought on Harry Maguire and Dan Byrne Maguire looked like an absolute weapon didn't he? bomb squad not in the South Africa Rugby Union bomb squad is what I'm thinking about it was the no fly zone Maguire got his head on everything it was amazing I thought to myself come on I actually I remember a while ago saying that having so big Dan Byrne on the bench you could genuinely make a swap at centre half in a more attacking sense if you needed something from a centre-piece something like that I think all day long I think if England Maguire is such a weapon definitely in both penalty areas and I think if you get into a position so say this game against Japan was a must-win game in a World Cup and you're a goal down I mean you know the way the game's going now like they're not it's slightly different because it was a friendly in Japan as Jim's rightly said did have other chances but you know the way it's going to go if England get themselves paint themselves into a corner and they've got a must-win game against a team they're better than, which could happen.

31:48Luke Moore: Or even in a locker game, yeah, they're battering a side. They can't get there. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with doing that because you're not going to have to deal... Maguire and Burn are good enough to deal with threats as centre-backs generally against an average team, but they give you such a weapon going forward. Oh, mate, I thought... He was like a magnet to that boy's head, wasn't it? That's what I'm talking about when he says play like a Premier League team. I'm back on board. I'm right back on board. I think... A rise to slab head. Well, I would say that Maguire has worked his way back into the squad in terms of the World Cup.

32:15Luke Moore: I know Tuchel said that he's, you know, with his words, you could deduce that the Maguire is, say, fifth choice centre-half from what he was saying. I would take him personally.

32:25Jim Campbell: Oh, 100%. And another thing that goes in his favour as well is that he'll be relatively fresh compared to a lot of those players. And huge experience. Because Man United have had this odd 40-game season. Yes, that's right. Yeah, and he's been good since... Yeah, he's been great. ...since the turn of the year or whatever it was. So I'm on board the Maguire train, no problem. I think, you know, So to me, what this comes down to is, based on what I've seen of England, they need to play a pretty close variation of the game, the team they played away in Serbia. Yeah, that's the result of the performance.

32:55But they also had a balance to themselves. They had Anselm Rice in the middle of the park, which works well. I know Rice wasn't available. He'll obviously play. They need to make a strong and firm decision for a stable Britain in the number 10 position. they need to basically choose strong and stable leadership in the number 10 position rather than the chaos of Ed Miliband and they need to play suited wide forwards behind alongside Kane to be honest you know these friendlies exist for a reason and maybe Tuchel thinks I need players in the camp I don't know who I'm going to need to rely on I need to be able to have a contingency plan whatever that's fine I totally understand that but with England you know we've almost gone from we're nowhere near as good as these top European nations or Brazil or whatever, so what's the fucking point?

33:45To we need to stop overcomplicating this. We need to make a firm decisions that actually, do you know, we've got six number tens who could all play. They can't. So pick the one that can.

33:55Luke Moore: And I think that's what was slightly disappointing me about last night is that Tuchel has been very good at saying, I don't give a damn. I'm picking the best. Well, I've made my decision. I mean, look at the way he's handled the Trent Alexander-Arnold stuff. Now, whether you think he should be, Trent should be in the sport, he's just been like, well, that's it. No chat around that. With Bellingham as well earlier on in the qualification campaign. So, yeah, I think that's it. I think what happens is you just see a little something from the past, a little unhelpful ghosty from the past turn up and you think, ah, come on.

34:24A wee ghouly ghost.

34:25Luke Moore: A little ghouly ghost. And that's not what we want, is it? No. Not what we want at all. Unless it's the ghost of 1966. Well, which has haunted us since then, you could argue. So, yeah. So, not great from England, but we're not too worried, I don't think. No, there's nothing to worry about, I don't think, based on that, what we specifically saw. It's just a bit shit, wasn't it?

34:43Jim Campbell: Yeah, we're an arrogant, arrogant nation. We're not going to let something like that, you know, get us down. Don't let them get away with that, Marcus. Say something more arrogant to prove him wrong.

34:52Luke Moore: We're on the verge. We're on the verge. I'm trying to think what could be appropriate here. Well, if you want more England chat, Jim, Luke and I will be doing a Lion's Watch episode, which should be in your podcast app. It'll also be on YouTube as well. We're actually streaming it live at midday, although you may be listening to this after. So you can watch us do it, as you can always do on our YouTube channel, or you can listen on your podcast app. And we're doing regular Lions watches between now and the World Cup, so plenty of time to get involved. Tis the season, Luke Moore. All of them will be live on YouTube.

35:23Luke Moore: Tis the season. Good reason to subscribe. Indeed it is. England and Japan will be at the World Cup. And there'll be another Englishman as well. Graham Potter. Yes. Sweden squeezed through against... I forgot Potter was there. and also instant impact he's got his new HBO series coming out as well they are do you know what I mean it's a great summer for Graham yeah I mean he's going to be he's going to be doing witchcraft and wizardry indeed and then he's also going to be in HBO well he's managed Sweden did not win a game in regular qualifier I love that Graham Potter with those with those big gorgeous fantastic beasts he knew where to find them he's got them you can find them in North America in the summer he's got them there they beat Poland at 3-2 Victor Jokeres scored an 88th minute winner.

36:09Luke Moore: Late on. Bit of confidence. Lovely stuff. Accio World Cup. Yeah.

36:15Jim Campbell: I'll take your word for it. Have you not read Harry Potter, either of you? No, I've read a few of them. I haven't even seen the films. I'm not familiar with that phrase, am I afraid. I haven't seen the films, Jim. Accio is the spell when you get something to come to you. I remember it. He goes,

36:30Luke Moore: Goal Accio!

36:34There you go. You brought it back. You've seen the Italian dub. and a bald eagle turns up.

36:37Luke Moore: It's Atilio Lombardo. If you're listening to this, and you're a fan of the Italian national side, and maybe you're Italian yourself, or you're Italian extraction, or whatever, Italian heritage, you're probably hurting today. This will make you feel better, I promise. Listening closely, this will make you feel better. You may not have qualified for the third World Cup in a row as a proud nation who won the World Cup in 2006, but think about it this way. Sweden qualified without winning a single game. Unbelievable. In regular qualifying. That's how easy it can be. That's what you've got to do your doggies in the Nations League.

37:14Luke Moore: Respect the Nations League, Marcus. Respect the Nations League. What's Italy's record in the Nations League? I'm going to look it up. You carry on. I think they've made the last four before. Not respecting it enough, are they? Yeah, they respect it a little bit, but not enough, as you say. Yeah, great for Sweden. Great for Graham Potter. I mean, it is actually, because you know... It's nice to see him happy. well one of the things you say about Potter is he's obviously a very interesting coach clearly a detail driven guy and he's had some success and he deserves respect for pulling himself up by his bootstraps and all the rest of it but what he did do I think was take poor jobs it was a bad decision to go to Chelsea wasn't it it was a bad decision to go to West Ham and we did say at the time Sweden's a fantastic reset international football the speed's totally different you'd be away from the prior and eyes of the English media and the Champions League and the Premier League and the rest of it and you're going back to a happy hunting ground if the football cliches guys would put it that way and it's worked out well.

38:10It's brilliant. He's going to be now managing at a World Cup and his reputation, if they do okay, his reputation is going to be okay again.

38:16Luke Moore: He could get the Spurs job in October. Well, we've got to dare to dream. To dare is to do. Indeed, we're going to talk about Spurs after the break but Sweden are through, Denmark are not. Czechia beat them on penalties, hammered them on penalties. The first time Czechia qualified for the World Cup since 2006 but Denmark win that home game against Belarus lads I mean how have Denmark bollocks this up they will be absolutely sick this morning as they should be Tokia made it through against Kosovo yeah I'm doing Czechia I'm doing Tokia I'm getting warmed up I just thought every time we say Czechia on the show the YouTube comments is full of people saying no one likes it being called Czechia I don't know if it's true or not I've got no way do you know who does who they do apparently they don't do they not I don't know anything about it but according to the comments it was going to fall through or something.

39:04Luke Moore: Well, make up with Slovakia and we'll get back to old ways then. Yeah, that'll sort it. Definitely. Definitely that'll sort it.

39:11Jim Campbell: I should have got you involved in that process. That's taking the heat off me, that. That's actually a really simple solution.

39:15Luke Moore: Very simple. Jim, I'm all about simple solutions to complex problems. You know that. It's all about being simple. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you're doing Turkey as well. Yeah, so they're through. Carry on. Man, to think, considering what Turkey have given us in the Euros in recent years, haven't been at a World Cup since 2002. Wow. You've got to forget that, don't you? Because of the Euros and again, some of the moments they've given us. And they've also had a good World Cup run at one point. Well, 2002. Semi-final. Yeah, that was it. I got confused because I got confused 2006 and 2010 with Walcott a couple of weeks ago and people were on my back.

39:45It was 2002 when they got to the semi-final, Turkey, right? Turkey, yes. And it was Turkey back then. Turkey and South Korea were both in the semis, weren't they? Yeah, 2002.

39:52Luke Moore: And Germany and Brazil were as well. Wonder who made it through. Well, we'll tune in next week to find out. South Korea were given a bit of a leg up. Absolutely fair. There's a bit of admin to get through here. All right.

40:06Jim Campbell: Apparently we're not allowed to go on flights of fancy anymore, Jim. It's because you've had a little crack at the integrity of the World Cup and you simply cannot allow it. He's allowed to do his Harry Potter puns. I'm not allowed to talk about two hours to work up. You brought pot to the table and I batted him away. I'll tell you what... That's what the Chelsea board said. The minute it's the Chelsea board meeting, you brought him to the table, I've batted him away. Next. Apparently the system works. Yeah. the DR Congo

40:33Luke Moore: are they did not spend eight years in medical school yeah to be called DR Congo thank you very much I was about to say Dr Congo is qualified speaking of name changes since the previous one time they got there it's going to be their first World Cup in 52 years they were called Zaire they were last time they made it in the mid 70s which was a very well documented controversial disastrous campaign but for a number of reasons but my goodness DR Congo at the World Cup You see, this is where you see the, I don't know, dare I use words like beauty and romance of the extended tournament. And we've talked about Curaçao before as well.

41:10Luke Moore: But DR Congo have made it. They beat Jamaica. The Steve McLaren project didn't really work. He wasn't in charge. Of course, he'd left before this game. You know, he'd resigned in November. But yeah, DR Congo have made it. As far as Sean said. and Iraq beat Bolivia to become the final team to qualify for the World Cup Iraq v Bolivia what a sport we've got here what a sport this is sadly it won't be a World Cup finals fixture but Iraq are in there so it's all there we don't have any gaps in the schedule anymore or the group should I say is it fair to say that Bolivia can't really win unless they're at the top of a mountain yeah maybe does seem to be a factor well I mean in Mexico there's a bit of altitude there but sadly they won't be able to make the most of it but Iraq have the small order of being in a group with France, Senegal and Norway tough it's a group of listen Iraq if you want to win it you've got to beat the best yeah I was about to say the group of death England are in the group of death anyway England's group is a tricky one yeah I think France Senegal, Iraq and Norway is the toughest group speaking of West African sides Ivory Coast beat Scotland at the Hildikinson Stadium in Liverpool 1-0 last night good result for the coast Arsenal's Hall of Famer Nicola Pepe Nicola Pepe yeah Scotland you know similar kind of international break to England really yeah underwhelming you might say disappointing you need to at least whelm you need to be aiming to at least whelm you do need to have a little bit of the whelming there's some boos again the boo boys are back and Stevie Clark's in their crosshairs it's getting easier to boo though isn't it Andy it is I mean everyone boos all the time who?

42:45Scotland? Luke everyone boos all the time now it's a big part of British life booing

42:52Jim Campbell: have people been booing you again I mean, that's never really relented. I mean, even during the golden years before Brexit, people were booing me. Were they? Yeah. It's actually, ironically for me, I'd probably get less shit on the internet now than I did before that because there's other things to worry about. That's true. So it's worked out fine for me, everyone. Don't worry.

43:12Luke Moore: It's worked out fine. Well, there we are. I think that's that for international football for the moment.

43:17Jim Campbell: Well, there was Wales and Northern Ireland in the Friendly of Shame, which it was dubbed. and I think purely because it was dubbed that in Italy which makes this whole thing even funnier we should mention it because they essentially made them play this didn't they and I just think you've essentially done a whole qualifying campaign for this friendly and that can't feel great no

43:37Luke Moore: at least with a third place player if one team gets a medal right yeah but I think they have to plan don't they they don't want to pop this bubble of banter Jim but they have to plan for having because the games are playing so close together they have to plan for actually winning it the squad is going to be together. So I guess the understanding is they might as well just play a game. Might as well. And that's what they put on the tickets. £40 each. Whatever it was, yeah. All right, coming up after this, Spurs hire Roberto de Zerbe.

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44:52Luke Moore: Welcome back, everybody. Now, Tottenham Hotspur have confirmed the appointment of Roberto de Zerbe as the club's new manager, obviously on a five-year contract. There's no relegation clause in his contract. No, but Spurs are over a barrel to such an extent they've got zero leverage with any manager that anyone's heard of. That's the thing about this. On social media, people, why have we done this? Why have we done that? Spurs fans, you have to understand the position you're in. despite the fact that Roberto De Zerbe is an incredibly divisive character has never stayed at a club more than a couple of years as a player or a manager has quite highfalutin ideas about how the game needs to be played I think the record poor start for a manager for Brighton was certainly up there they still have to pay through the nose on terms that are very favourable to him and his agent to even get him to take the job in April when they're in such a state like you don't get to have any leverage in this situation.

45:49Luke Moore: Well, as Simon Jordan said on TalkSport that Spurs have had their pants pulled down and their little body smacked by Roberto De Zerbe. He then referred to Roberto De Zerbe because he thought that there was a relegation clause and he called him a saucy sod. Which I thought was thoroughly enjoyable. But there is no relegation clause in the contract. But that might be the one bit of negotiation that Spurs were able to successfully do. They had to have that. Yeah, but because he's not going to stay anyway. Yeah, well, indeed. Do you honestly think he's going to manage the championship? No, I don't.

46:23Honestly, I think this is a disastrous appointment.

46:26Jim Campbell: Yeah. I'm surprised by that, to be honest. I think, you know, truly disastrous. The thing about his poor start is obviously a factor, but that was a while ago. He understands the Premier League a lot more now. I know his time at Marseille was kind of volatile, but that's part of what you get, and they've had trouble with that before, obviously, haven't they? But he's a good manager, surely. He's the most volatile person I could have hired. And he's already, I mean, listen, generally speaking. Might this squad need that though? Tudor?

46:52Luke Moore: Well, I mean, they're very different characters. Are they? But when you say that, I mean, Marseille are currently third in Ligue 1. Okay. So, which is, you know, realistically probably the best. I mean, I mean, I mean, old Lom, or Lens, as I like to call them. Which is how they're properly pronounced. Indeed, are having an amazing season and obviously, PSG are top. Look, I get what you say, you know, disastrous appointment and so on. You know, we were saying that the type of football he wants to play, you know, the players that he has at Spurs are more primed to probably play that style. We just wondered, you know, we were pondering this idea the other day on the pod that if Sean Dyche comes in there or, you know, or somebody, well, we've seen Tudor come in and try it.

47:34Luke Moore: That sort of firefighter right back to the walls, lads. It's not having an effect. Now, I know Tudor and Sean Dyche are two different men and so therefore you can't just say one would have the exact same effect as the other. But with De Zerbe, the type of football he does play I wonder actually if again a lot of those Spurs players will respond to that a bit quicker than this idea of you know we're fighting for our lives

47:56Jim Campbell: and blah blah blah it's seven games though isn't it is that enough time to implement a completely new style or do you do a sort of bespoke back to basics let's just get as many points as we can sort of plan

48:08Luke Moore: look because Erby knows the situation he's going into Jim it's one that you know I can't remember seeing him go into as well he goes in with his eyes open everybody goes in with their eyes open but I mean that's not stopped poor decisions from happening before

48:19Jim Campbell: and what I'm sort of getting at though is that it's important to get that right isn't it you've got two different paths you can take and you like you have so few games that you have to choose the right one

48:28Luke Moore: yeah yeah indeed I wonder if though the appointment of Igor Tudor which looked odd at the time and obviously has proved to be a ludicrous one perhaps that was the time if you're going to go with someone like De Zerbe that was the time to do it but you can't cry They tried to get him then, didn't they? But he'd only just left Marseille. But it's a ridiculous time to hire a manager like him. Everything needs to be geared towards them staying in the Premier League. Everyone knows that, right? The very moment they confirmed they were hiring him, all these fan groups put out all these statements about how controversial a character he is.

49:03He's basically split the fan base down the middle before he's even taken a training session. That's a different issue and one we should talk about. It's relevant to it and we can come on to it. But let's not sit here and not remember the amount of goals Brighton used to concede under Deserba. I mean, the one thing that stopped them doing even better than they did was because they could not stop conceding. They finished in a pretty good league position in his final season in charge. They can see it's 62 goals that season, right? His team in the Premier League, when he's managed in the Premier League, really struggled to stop conceding goals.

49:35One of the things that Spurs need to do on day one is to stop conceding, right? Now listen, he might keep them in the Premier League. There's no control in this experiment. As Jim's just alluded to there, there's no coverage that we can do on the path they haven't taken, right? So we don't know. They may have stayed in the Premier League with Ben Davis just doing a player-manager job for the last seven games, getting around the players. I get what you're saying. We've got to do it, right? The problem is they've hired a well-known, big-name manager who's had some success both here and abroad, and they've had to hire him when they're on their knees.

50:08they've had to give him a contract. The only way he was ever going to take this job now is if they gave him such favourable terms he couldn't say no, right? Which is what's happened. That in itself is probably a really, really poor way to run things anyway. Secondly, he is a divisive character, not just with this stuff about Mason Greenwood, but just generally. He's very volatile. The stories that were coming out of Brighton about him were eye-opening, very, very eyebrow-raising, to say the least. I think this is the opposite have a kind of gentle hand on the tiller, give them a bit of confidence, give them what they need.

50:40I think this is a proper like shit or bust appointment. It could go well. They could win every game. But I think they could lose every game. And there's nothing to suggest what we've seen from these Tottenham players that they're going to respond to any manager, let alone one that's going to divide the fan base and get people's backs up from day one.

50:56Luke Moore: I think it's a disaster. Do you feel though that the board right now at Spurs, right, if you were in the board now making these appointments, what do you do? Sean Dyche wanted a longer term contract. He's not going to get a longer term contract after these seven games. If your shortlist is Sean Dyche and Roberto De Zerbe, you're fucking terrible anyway. So are they thinking, bloody hell, it's almost like trying to avoid embarrassment. Let's just hope this guy manages to keep us up and it looks like, oh yeah, you're still planning for the long term. You're not admitting you're in the position that you're in.

51:30Luke Moore: If you hire Sean Dyche, you can't hire him on an 18-month contract because he's not going to... he's not going to do anything even if he kept them up. Between a rock and a hard place, because they've put themselves there, right? So I'm not trying to give any sympathy to them. But I suppose with this appointment of De Zerbi, they're thinking, let's play our way out of trouble, and then he's got a summer and then we're golden. But you mentioned the Mason Greenwood stuff there. We have to talk about that. Because a number of fan groups, including Women of the Lane, have said that De Zerbi... The official supporters trust as well.

52:00Indeed, yes, I should say, yes.

52:02Luke Moore: Have said that Roberto De Zerbi's comments concerning Mason Greenwood raised serious questions about judgment and leadership. He was asked this to Zerbi last year. There was a journalist asked him when they played Newcastle United in the Champions League. And his comments were sloppy, to say the least. So this has divided Spurs fans. So this is not even actually on a football issue. This is on a sort of a moral issue, if you like. Jim, what did you make of all this?

52:31Jim Campbell: Yeah, I think, so Spurs official LGBTQ plus fans group put it really really well they're called Proud Lily Whites and they said when someone in that position publicly defends a player like Mason Greenwood and frames it in a way that downplays the seriousness of what happened it matters not just in isolation but in what it signals and I think that's the sort of perfectly kind of concise and succinct way to put that because yeah of course he's in a situation where he's going to be asked about his player he was there when when Greenwood came in so there's obviously he's understood or has certainly been part of that process.

53:05Jim Campbell: It's a difficult thing for him to address, of course it is, and it's likely to cause criticism because signing Greenwood at all is going to cause criticism, and yet he's essentially just done a poor job of that. And it isn't a good signal, is it? It isn't a good signal in the kind of modern environment we have in football, which is essentially constantly striving to make it more welcoming to everybody. Yeah, I think the signing of Greenwood was quite opportunistic by Marseille. and Deserbi was a part of that and then he defended it when asked about it I mean his judgement on that was in my view poor you know the problem is modern society with someone like Deserbi he's almost quite a good Spurs as a club are quite an interesting lens through which to view what society's become because in on one side of the fence you've got a load of probably a bit more conservative kind of older perhaps Spurs fans saying well what do we care about this what do we care about this guy who answered this question in a different country about what another guy did a year ago when actually the most important thing to us is Spurs staying in the Premier League and then a whole lot of other fans on the other side who are maybe a bit more progressive a bit more metropolitan saying we think this is important this is more important than football this is a moral issue as you say and it's actually really important because as ever with top football clubs they'll come out and say about inclusivity they'll be happy to hang the flags the right flags in the stadium him and do all this stuff when it's performative and makes sense for them, but actually when it comes down to proper decisions, and bearing in mind Spurs were briefing themselves that this issue was considered when they talked about hiring him.

54:43They said that. They've not been seen to do the right thing. The whole... I think what Mason Greenwood did was absolutely deplorable, and I think it's disgraceful, and I think that De Serbi's comments were disgraceful as well, but ultimately if we're talking about Spurs, the conclusion I can only come to is that this is just yet more poor judgment at a time when the situation is already incredibly volatile. And if I could just spin it back around to the football, I think, I would just say when he took over at Brighton in September of 2022, they didn't win any of their first five games, right? Spurs have only got seven games left.

55:23And players who played under Zerbi at Brighton said, I thought this guy was a maniac when he first came in it was almost like Bielsa at Leeds we didn't know what was going on but actually longer term he taught me so much about football and I became so much of a better player I think it was Lewis Dunk specifically from memory might have said that about Brighton that's great but you don't have that luxury now you've got to win the next probably two or three games you have to to give yourselves the best chance of staying up and all this stuff I'm not trying to trivialise it I think it's a really important issue if it was down to me I wouldn't want him managing at my club after the things he said, and I certainly wouldn't want Mason Greenwood playing at my club.

56:01That's just my personal view. But forget that for now. This is just more distraction and more divisiveness, more division ahead of probably the most important part of Spurs' existence in the Premier League era, and they've again fumbled the ball. I honestly think this is a disastrous appointment. It may work out, but to me, I'd be very, very worried.

56:24Luke Moore: Yeah, I think you've summed that up quite well. Luke there, quite frankly. And it's incredible really with Spurs that this is the international break. I don't want to be talking about club football. They've crashed in on it, haven't they? They have. They've crashed in on it. They've also done a mad thing where like, you know, get rid of, Tudor has to go, I understand the circumstances are unfortunate, you know, he deserves sympathy of course, but they had an opportunity there to go, do you know what? We can make a good sensible hire that may not be long term, may not be Mr. Right, but he could be Mr.

56:49Right now. Harry Redknapp. A few weeks with no one talking about Spurs would be great. Yeah. because England have just lost a game, right? So that's a distraction. No one's talking about club football. We can hit the ground running. And look what they've done.

57:03Luke Moore: They've bloody ruined my international break, Jim, and I'm not letting them have the last word on this show. All right? I've had very divisive stuff. Let's finish with something that's more lighthearted and not divisive. Gianni Infantino has said Iran will play at the World Cup. Yeah, we've got our game back. We've got our grain back. There we go.

57:21Jim Campbell: Iran and Egypt will play the pride game that is happening in Seattle. So, yeah, again, absolutely disastrous.

57:30Luke Moore: I want to quote our great leader, Gianni Infantino. He said this, by the way, before you say what he said. He said it on the back of a tanker going down the straight of Hormuz on a big megaphone loudspeaker like Farage on the Thames that time. If he'd have done that, I think I'd have been on board with him. Get the torpedo. Do you want to launch the torpedo? Quite literally on board. Launch it. Oh, hang on. Spell is on board as well. Abandon. Abandon. We need a sniper, not a torpedo. Darsom's on board. It's all right. He's driving. So Iran will be at the World Cup. We're delighted because they're a very, very strong team.

58:07Luke Moore: I am happy. Well, the matches will be played where they are supposed to, according to the draw. So they face New Zealand and Belgium in LA, Egypt in Seattle. The best quote is the final line, Marcus. I've seen the team referring to Iran. I've spoken to the players and the coach. so everything is fine Gianni's sorting it in the words of Steve he had his guitar it's fine it's fine today I feel gay it's fine he was strubbing his guitar while he was talking to him his unplugged guitar what a world what has this world become I don't know what has it become but we're still we're still alive we're still fighting we're still fighting for this world cup that's what we're doing so yeah Iran will be there do you know I think was it the president of Mexico or one of Mexico's top dogs Big Wigs was saying they can always play them here if needs to be again what is going on another host country is going we'll find a stadium for you none of this should be happening none of this should be happening it's absolute nonsense the amount of times I find myself saying that on a daily basis

59:05Jim Campbell: looking forward to the album though

59:06Luke Moore: oh yeah when's that coming out by the way heal the world should be a cover of heal the world I can't even pre-save it on Spotify what's going on I don't know but look we've got that to look forward to we've got Andy Mills book as well all sorts of good stuff coming but until then thank you very much for listening to the Football Ramble part of the ACAR's greater network friends of the Ramble don't go anywhere keep listening for Ramble Uncut and if you're not a friend of the Ramble head over to patreon.com forward slash football Ramble to sign up now just remember potential Patreon people the World Cup is coming nudge nudge wink wink no one can stop it absolutely right thank you very much Luke Moore thank you thank you Jim Campbell thank you and no thank you Gianni and friends at your night

59:53Jim Campbell: The Football Ramble is a stack production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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