On The Continent: The big red Jürgen Klopp button

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3:02Andy here. That's right. I'm back again already. First of all, I want to say thank you so much for all the kind messages I received last week. I was so grateful for every single one. And second of all, I want to tell you what I'm going to be up to next season. On the Continent is your one-stop shop for European football here at Stack. Every Thursday and Friday, I'm joined by my longtime pal, Dotton Adebayo, and a rotation of the best European football journalists in the world to break down the biggest stories from across the continent, obviously, often featuring some very familiar faces from the Premier League.

3:38This week, Dotton and I were joined by Italian football guru, Nicky Bandini, to talk about the curious case of Adamola Lookman and the massive job Jurgen Klopp has on his hands this season at Red Bull. Remember, if you like what you hear, search On The Continent wherever you get your podcasts. Right, on with the show. Welcome to On The Continent, your definitive guide to the week in European football. I'm Dotton Adebayo. I'm Andy Brassel. and I'm Nicky Bandini. On this Oh Soul Mio Sunshine Edition, will it be now or will it be never for Ademola Lukman's search for a new challenge in Serie A? Also, is it a bird?

4:20Is it a plane? No, it's Jurgen Klopp, but can he fix it? Or are Leipzig better off phoning for a builder called Bob? And can Chelsea termed Bundesliga Wunderkind, Javi Siemens to sign or will it be a Stamford Bridge too far?

4:44Nikki, great that you're in the studio because the whole of Nigeria wants to know. Yes, they do. What about Ademwala Lukman? He's been looking for a move from Atalanta for a couple of seasons now, hasn't he? He absolutely has. Last summer, dug his heels in quite hard, hoping to go to Paris Saint-Germain, which didn't happen. And what a sliding doors moment, by the way, because if Adamela Lukman goes to Paris Saint-Germain, then presumably they don't spend the money on Kvart Scalia. Are they still the same team? I mean, who knows? Maybe he's a European champion right now and Kvart Scalia is still at Napoli.

5:19But definitely was trying to get that to happen last summer, has been trying mighty hard to get it to happen this summer. You were saying all of Nigeria is waiting for it. I'm waiting for it. I love watching Adam Oluwukman play football. I'm getting a little bit tired of seeing him on the front page every day. I've got Settledal Sport. I quite like there to be room for some other stories sometimes. But yes, it's been a saga already this summer. He very much is ready to go. He has his heart set, it seems, at the moment on Inter. I don't think that's completely impossible that there could be another place.

5:58but Inter are the club who've come forward in a serious way for him this summer and who offer him what he wants, which is to go and play Champions League football. Well, he can play Champions League football at Atlanta, to be fair, but play on a club that can aspire to win the whole thing as they did reach the final last season. And the issue is just going to be the money. Inter have put an offer of around€40 million on the table. Atlanta don't really want to sell him to an Italian club, but they haven't got any other strong offers from overseas at the moment. And so they've turned around and said, well, we'll do it at 50 million euros.

6:34And that doesn't sound like a huge gap when we talk about these things in abstract, but it is because Luckman is going to turn 20, I think, in October. This is a player for whom there is no likely financial return. You're going to spend this money and not get it back. and you really don't have Italian clubs very often throwing that sort of money around these days on players where they don't expect to be able to sell on for more or at least a similar fee in a few years. So it is a big gap still, about 10 million euros between them. But the will is there from two out of three parties to get it done.

7:13And the third party is, I suppose, going to be the one that defines this negotiation, how willing are Atlanta to dig in? Would they be willing to, I suppose, push this all away and get to the end of the transfer window and say, well, no, they didn't meet our offer and therefore you stay? Given that he's got two years left now in his contract, it would certainly be a big gamble. You see, even though Nicky has explained the situation very eloquently, nevertheless, Andy, it shouldn't be this difficult, should it, for one of the best players in Serie A over the last couple of seasons to move. And yet, it's proving difficult.

7:54One of the best players in Europe, I would say he's in the top 20 in Europe over the last couple of years. I think sometimes there's a slight undervaluing of Serie A players. But, you know, this is a guy who won the Europa League final, not on his own, but was the key player in doing that against an unbelievable Leverkusen. an unbelievable Leverkusen team under Xabi Alonso who could have got a treble. Let's remember that. He scored a hat-trick in the final. Just remind ourselves, yeah. And then he went on to have an even better season last season. Despite the fact that two-thirds of the way through he has a massive fallout with his coach, Giampiero Gasparini.

8:36He just brushes it off like it's nothing and carries on playing brilliantly. And I think when you look at the way that he's viewed in Premier League circles sometimes as a talent who maybe, you know, wasn't quite mentally robust enough to get it done at elite level. Well, he's completely rubbished all that. So he's proven that he's legitimately one of the best players on the continent. But I think it goes back to what Nicky was saying there about the age. The age is the important thing there because that should be prime. that shouldn't be like a question of two. Like you said, it should be open and shut.

9:17But if we look at some of the other deals and some of the other unbelievable players are actually slightly younger than Luchman, only very slightly, but Victor Kjorka is, Victor Ozzyman, deals that have been really, really hard to piece together. And they are a symptom of the fact that everyone has their eye on FFP or PSR or whatever the local equivalent is to go hand in hand with the European one. So what Nicky said about resale and dead money, that is all super important. I think the other question with Lutman as relates to Inter specifically, the way that last season ended, I guess they look at the fact that they need to get younger.

10:05Beppe Morotta has spoken about that. They kind of ran out of legs at the end of last season. And I think what we thought was a squad with incredible depth in the first half of last season, when it got to the second half of last season, we thought, are the backups actually any good? Is there too much of a drop-off between the best Inter 11 and the players that are below that? So they're seeking to reinforce that. So if you're looking at, say, bringing in Luckman, You're presuming that Esposito, who haven't been out on loan, is promoted again younger. These are presumably, they hope, upgrades from Tademi, who will probably leave before the end of the deadline, who hasn't really worked out.

10:48Marko Anatovic, who didn't work out at all. But does that mean that Luchman is a starter or a squad player? And then how much can you justify playing him? If they do include Luchman in the XI, which you would assume they would, because they're going to buy him for a lot of money, if they do buy him Inter, do they have to change the shape of the team? And does Christian Kivu want to change the shape of the team? He's almost, when I think about Inter last season, I absolutely don't see how he fits easily into what Nzaghi ran as a system in the 3-5-2. He plays his best football, or certainly did it at Atlanta, coming in from the left-hand side, coming on to a stronger foot, and not just doing that traditional, because I don't think of him as a winger at all, but to...

11:32It's like a wide forward, really, isn't it? He's a wide forward, but not doing that, I suppose, traditional wide forward thing of just coming in to shoot on your right foot. But also when you look at where a lot of his goals come from, which is inside the area, it's because he drifts in so effectively from that left hand side to find the space in the box. He does that very, very well. So how do you do that in a 3-5-2? It's not easy. There's not an obvious way of doing it. Does he replace Turan sometimes, I guess is the question. Yeah, I think from Inter's point of view, absolutely. When we tell the story of Inter's season and how it ended so disappointingly after promising so much, depth is a real thing.

12:11When you play close to 60 games in a season, you really do need to think of not just a starting 11. You need to think about players that can come in and out. So I do think it would be a question sometimes of horses for courses and having the opportunity to give those players rests. But I also think Christian Kivu is coming and acting like a man who intends to make this his own team. I don't think it will necessarily always be 3-5-2. I could very easily see if you have those three players. Some games you go for a front three. And by the way, don't forget, they've also signed Bonny this summer from Padma.

12:44And I think what we're hearing from Kivu, what we're seeing in the glimpses we saw, I guess, at the Club World Cup and the general principles of his game. I think we're going to see a team that is a bit more willing to trust players to take on the one-on-ones and go for and take the man on sometimes, which is something that Luckman absolutely can do and can give you. because it was so much about the interchanges with Inzaghi. That was what made the team so special. It was all about swapping positions, but it was very rarely about what Atlanta do so well, which is go on, take your man on, take your man on.

13:22That wasn't really what Inter did. So I think it's about as well, giving yourself different options for different kinds of opponents. But what I would say with Luchman, the thing which just to bring the conversation back to his value and the way he stands out, And perhaps again, things that might chime with Inter, given that their league season was really this story of being the best team, but they're not winning the big games when they should have done. He stood up so often for Atlanta in the biggest games, over and over and over again. I mean, even if we talk about, maybe you don't think of these biggest games, but biggest teams, Real Madrid in the Champions League last season, he had a storming game, scored a goal with a nutmeg and was brilliant off the left-hand side.

14:04But back in October when they went away and smashed Napoli. Yeah, exactly. That was the next game I was about to say, another game that just jumps straight into the mind. He is really, I think, someone who has shown that he stands up on those occasions over and over. And all of that is good material for Inter. I think there's this fear that is possibly also factors into why he has no more interest. there's this, I think sometimes overstated, I think I've overstated it in the past, fear of these Atlanta players never look quite as good when they're not at Atlanta with Giampiero Gasperini. But I actually think oddly out of all of them, he's the one I most trust to not be like that because he's always been something above and beyond the system.

14:48I feel like he's always been actually this player who can do things on his own. and I think that is why I don't have that fear as much with him. I think he's a sensational footballer and I hope that wherever he ends up, we get to see him used to his best because yes, he's at the point of his career now where that career is not going to go on forever and we want to see this peak years, him somewhere where he can express himself to the maximum. I'll tell you what, my image of Ademola Lukman is always that when you were talking about the kind of leadership but how he carried Atalanta. He's always the kind of striker that scores a goal and then rushes into the net to retrieve the ball and say, come on, we can score another one.

15:33Come on. But what all the addicts want to know, yes, the mighty Charlton Athletic faithful, because let's not forget his roots. What they all want to know is what happens if he doesn't get this transfer to Inter? What happens to Ademola Lukman then? Atalanta are a fascinating story all of their own this season. And we have had this great, we've been treated to, frankly, this great Gianfiero Gasperini era in which they went from being this surprise package of making the most of their assets, this selling club that was very effective into being this team. Oh, hang on. They're becoming one of the dark horses who punch above their weight a lot into being, frankly, the last couple of years, just straight up one of the best teams in Italy.

16:18No qualifications required to it. They won the Europa League very deservedly, beating, as Andy said, by Leverkusen on the way, beating Liverpool along the way. They earned that in the most serious way you can earn it. And how much of that magic was just Gasparini? How much of that was just this manager who kept rebuilding teams on the fly and changing everything as he went? We're about to find out. Ivan Juric has come in, who is very much a disciple of his, not going to tear things up I suppose in contrast Kivo didn't tear but can he hold that together and get the same magic out of it I'm sceptical and so if Luchman was forced to stay there for another year well in terms of his professionalism last season he was very clearly not happy to stay at the start of the season he then had Gasparini absolutely flame him at times in public when he missed the penalty against Club Brugge and Gasparini turns around and goes so he's one of the worst penalty takers ever.

17:18He shouldn't be taking penalties. And you think, that is not a healthy relationship between manager and player. And yet Lickman just carried on scoring goals afterwards because that's what he does. So his professionalism, I don't doubt or question. What comes next for Atalanta, who also just sold Matteo Rettegi, by the way, Serie A top scorer. That's a much more open question, I think, at this point in the summer. I think that's the thing, isn't it? Because like or loathe Gasparini, the optics of a couple of your big players leaving after your totemic manager leaves, I think is very hard to get past.

17:55So Nikki and I were talking about it earlier and she was saying to me, the fact is, it's early in the transfer window. They're always really busy. They made loads more transfers than you would have assumed that had made, partly due to injuries last summer. But this will be the tip of the iceberg. They'll go out and buy as well. And she's absolutely right. but after Gasparini's gone and after Juric comes in and look, there's a lot of logic behind it as says, but again, the optics has come off the back of a very chastening last job in Serie A with Roma and a very, very chastening last job in England with Southampton.

18:37So it's not an appointment that's going to make people say, wow. And then on top of that, Riteki goes, there's a great financial case for selling him. You know, they've made three times, over three times what they paid for him by selling him after having a great season out of him. And, you know, I think as well, it's indicative that Gasparini didn't trust him to start a lot of the big matches. He brought him on later. So that could turn out to be a really good deal. But if you sell him and you sell Luckman before the end of July, it affects market confidence. Let's put it that way. Yeah. I mean, I want to see how Juric will do.

19:18And I completely, again, as I alluded to, understand this idea of keeping some continuity in terms of the philosophy of the team. Because I think philosophically we'll absolutely carry forward the Gasparini project. But there is that feeling of, I don't know, grabbing the table even saying it. Like he's gone out and signed Suleymane from Southampton who, look, when he went to Southampton was a player that everyone was very excited about. but he didn't have a good time there. And is this the signing that fills you with the confidence that things are going to go differently? But at the same time, I think it's also really easy to look at that Atlanta thing exactly as Andy's just outlined.

19:54Oh, you sold Luckman, you sold Rettegi. What are you going to do? Well, first of all, Rettegi was this extraordinary one season that wasn't really expected when they signed him as what felt like a bit of a panic purchase because Scamacca got injured. So maybe Scamacca comes back and resumes doing what he was doing before. And then if you look at it in those terms, actually, you've still got the same team mostly that challenged for the title last season, that has Scamacca back to fill the Rettegi gap. You're only really looking at replacing one player. Now, unfortunately, for all the reasons I just said, that's a very, very good player.

20:32But there's still a lot good at Atalanta. This is still the team that's got an absolute core of players who are brilliant. Edison in midfield. Darun, who's always punched above his weight there and done so well. Scamacca, who's been extremely effective up front for them. Charles Zecatelara behind the attack. They're not short of good players. And it's always about the optics, isn't it? What they need to do is do something to restore that market confidence that we talked about. So basically make a statement. That doesn't have to be going out and buying someone for a ton of money. But say, for example, as has been mentioned, if Lutman goes and they're replacing him with Federico Chiesa, this is a guy who's had a couple of bad years, but is someone who is a great player and people know is a great player.

21:19It's injury that's put him back. Yes, it is. But immediately that restores some confidence because of the name. And you add that to, as Nicky says, Edison de Catelara, Skamaka, Scalvini you know that makes a that makes a difference and you just have to say it's not falling to bits and you need to say that not just to the rest of the world you need to say that to the dressing room because football is a human if the best players in the dressing room are leaving they start thinking oh well you know maybe what am I staying here for so because Edison has a market too right that's the thing the problem is like will more of them turn around and go actually I'm going to go this summer now it's very easy for you start the summer when you're a club of that size you start the summer with this idea you're going to sell two players and then you're going to reinvest the money or some of the money and you're going to balance the books and it's all going to be great but then those two players leave a third goes and all of a sudden it becomes an exodus that's the problem and let's not forget Ademola Lukman is also the current African footballer of the year that's got to count for something it's massive it's massive unless they replace if they sell him and clearly they're going to do it on their own terms.

22:29And the amount of money that they've got for Ritegi enables them to do it on their own terms. They don't have to give into any presents here. That, they just need to get a replacement and a replacement of substance quickly. And if they put that in place, then maybe they keep it together. I suppose there's just one other thing to say on that, which is just all of this in my head. It's already reminding me so much of Bologna a year ago. When Calafuri leaves and Zergze leaves and Ferguson's injured And Thiago Mota goes and you think, there's no way. And they were great again this season. So only to say football sometimes completely, we think we know what's going on and we don't.

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26:08question for you Andy whatever happened to the likely lad you know the one that is Jurgen Klopp whatever happened to him I think people ask that a lot because people ask a lot what is his job nowadays and it's a global head of sport for Red Bull but what does it mean? That's what the late queen used to ask you know no generally it did to me when I went to Buckton Bay first time just what is your job you know what do you do that's what she gets out of the problem of asking where'd you come from I thought you meant she'd asked you about Jurgen Klopp ah yes well Maybe that as well. No, no, definitely not that.

26:47But he's been in post since January 1st. Obviously, he was doing a little bit of work, a little bit of prep work before that. And so we're past six months in the job. And I guess we were talking about optics before. He needs to look busy. And he needs to look busy, particularly because in the first half of this year, the two of the bigger European parts, the traditional parts of the Red Bull empire, like Leipzig and Salzburg, neither of them going particularly well. Now, fortunately, his paymasters did him a favour and fired his pal Pep Linders at Salzburg so he didn't have to do it himself, which is a definite plus.

27:31But of course, in Germany, where there's been a lot of controversy around him deciding to put his career with Red Bull, which goes against what a lot of people thought he was about, Whether that was what he's actually about is a different question. So this is being looked at very closely in Germany. And of course, every time that something goes wrong at one of those clubs, because we know he's an elite coach, even if he said, I want to step back from that, I want to relieve a bit of the pressure, there's no doubt every time one of those jobs comes up, people are like, well, maybe Jürgen will step in as a bit of a caretaker.

28:09but now I think there's an understanding that he's not going to take any of those jobs in the immediate future but having said that there's a sense that they've lost the thread a little bit at Leipzig over the last six to eight months and that it's been coming for a while they start with Marco Rosa Leipzig guy Red Bull guy for longer than they might have done because they had a lot of esteem for him at the club and because he'd done a very good job for a lot of his time there. He's the longest serving top flight coach of RB Leipzig. And then when he went, there was a sense, a growing sense, an almost irresistible tide of Klopp is going to have to step in and make sure this club gets back on the straight and narrow because Rosa goes, Leipzig not only missed the Champions League places, but they miss Europe entirely for the first time since they're promoted, which is a massive dent on their ambitions and quite publicly humiliating.

29:14Then they have to make a lot of personnel decisions. They finally get their coach, Olo Werner, the guy who they decide they want from Werner Bremen. It's not an easy move to bring him across. We talked about him on Ask OTC last, last week, of course, as I said, I think he'll do a really good job there, but it was, it was difficult getting him. They finally get him. He needs help reassembling a team. and there is going to be a bit of at least minor reconstruction. I mean, they signed four players in 26 hours last week, led by Johan Bakayoko. Thank goodness they had some energy drinks to keep him awake during that time.

29:51And then on the first day of training, Jürgen Klopp turns up. And you think, well, is this massively helpful for Ole Werner? You know, at the side of the pitch, Klopp's not even planning really to give a press conference. And of course, he's surrounded by swathes of journalists. And he's going, well, it's not about me. It's about this guy who's the coach. Well, it is about you because there are a ton of journalists around you. So especially in the position that Leipzig are in, in this state of flux, and the fact that the guy who should at least be ostensibly be managing that, Marcel Schaefer, is still quite a young sporting director.

30:30there's just this inevitability that Jurgen Klopp is going to have to be involved but how to what extent and what is his role going to be and that is the question we didn't know the answer to on the 1st of January and we still don't know now I've got to ask you to just roll back a little bit because you did say that Jurgen Klopp's decision to go and work for RB Leipzig didn't go down well amongst the football followers of Germany and that of course is because of RB Leipzig's model which is very different from all the other German clubs, to say the very least. But do you want to explain that? Just give us that background.

31:04Why is it so controversial to go and work for Arby Leipzig for somebody like Jürgen Klopp? Well, because Leipzig are, I guess, closer to being tolerated in German football society now, but they're not liked. The Red Bull model is something that pretty much all supporters and a lot of clubs think is unacceptable. It's felt that they're not organic, that they're gaming the system etc and of course klopp since before he was the coach of borussia dortmund he became really popular in germany when he was a tv pundit during the 2006 world cup he was thought of as the everyman this is a guy who if he wasn't a coach would be on the terraces with us he gets it and all of a sudden he gets this offer and he thinks well actually yeah i'll I'll take that.

31:56And when a lot of people think that is the antithesis of what German football should be about, the fact that this guy who is seen as the ultimate footballing everyman takes the job with the big bad ogre who's seen to subvert German football culture, as a lot of people see it, that's why a lot of people are unhappy with it. And, you know, not just fans, but journalists too. What is his job then, Nicky? Well, it's a good question again. We'll keep asking this question until we get an answer. if he is stuck in the middle as it were, what is his job? What's his role? If you're global head of sport at Red Bull, I think Red Bull seems to do a lot of these like jumping out of plane type sports now, don't they?

32:36Or like cliff diving. I don't know if he has any involvement in managing that. No, it's a great question. This is absolutely what people are going to keep asking and what I worry for the club is just going to become this unavoidable and inescapable sideshow. Because as we were talking about just Boyke Wynette, he shows up at training and suddenly you have a massive scrum to interview him and he can try to say, it's not about me. But the problem is that just physically by being there... Six foot five. It is. There you go. But physically by being there, it's about him. It's the same as right after Sir Alex Ferguson finished with United.

33:18if Sir Alex Ferguson shows up at United, everyone's interested in Sir Alex Ferguson and that shadow is going to be there. And I've been reading on the way in some of these stories that have come out since he's been there. And it's one from July about, oh, held a 10 hour meeting with Werner about how they want the team to play. And you think to yourself, do you know, that sounds very dramatic. And I think people will immediately read that and they go, well, that's because Jurgen Klopp's telling him how he's going to play. And it's because Jurgen Klopp is this shadow manager. The phrase has been thrown around, he's a shadow manager.

33:48managing it and i think that if you spent time around as as i know you have like time around these sorts of football coaches and managers it's really easy for them to talk for 10 hours about football tactics like if you get into a conversation about football tactics with people who spend all their time thinking about football tactics 10 hours can go like that because it's what they enjoy doing so yes of course there is some there is some reality in there that they are having a philosophical conversation about what they want from the club but this idea that it was a 10-hour lecture that that's something that never happens at other football clubs it's probably not true that happens at other football clubs it just doesn't get talked about because it's not Jurgen Klopp but the problem is it is Jurgen Klopp and they're always going to talk about it because it's Jurgen Klopp and I don't know how you move on from that other than perhaps if the team's on the pitch and winning maybe everyone will forget about it and not care it's because she's got a point there hasn't isn't she?

34:44Because, you know, if this season is the defining season, given that they weren't even in Europe last season, he's got to do something now, hasn't he? Yeah. And again, I think it's the optics. I think when we look at what they've done over the last couple of years, the transfer model, I think a lot of people externally have not realized that it's not, it's changed quite a lot, but they've gone out there and they've spent enormous money on some players that they never would have done before. because a lot of those players have been young it feels as if they haven't made a lot of a change but you know they spent nearly 50 million on Lois Apenda they spent a fee that could rise to 80 on Xavi Simons and that has not worked out at all despite the fact he was brilliant when he was on loan there and of course there's still the Benjamin Ciesco thing because I dare say that in the second half of August some Premier League clubs are going to start sniffing again And I do wonder if there's an argument that, I mean, there's definitely an argument that they sell Xavi Simons and he's the most likely to leave next.

35:56And I think you could argue that Xavi Simons and maybe even Czesco going is a desirable thing because it gives them the opportunity to properly rebuild rather than half rebuild. because it does feel as if a proper culture change is needed. Now, Werner is... Ole Werner, Timo Werner is still there, but they're hoping to get rid of him, maybe to another Red Bull club, watch his space. But Ole Werner is a very capable coach who's going to have far greater resources than he did at Werner Bremen. But unless they do the transfer window right, there's going to be a lot of pressure piled upon him for stuff that he hasn't done and has had no say over.

36:40So I think when Klopp was there, if you're making a case for it being the right thing for him to be there, it's not just meeting public demand. The fact that everyone in German football is going, what are you actually doing? What is he there for? Why isn't he using his guiding hand and his experience to help them? I think the fact that if he can come and give Marcel Schaefer some help, if he can shape the squad, if he can create that dialogue between Schaefer and Werner, who he's nailed his colours to the mask. Klopp has said he's a massive fan of Ole Werner. That will give them the best chance of getting off well at the start of this season.

37:24Because as of now, despite the fact they've been active in the transfer market, there is still so much to sort out. And the fact that Jarry Simons, who is a star player, he is brilliant. He's also quite unhappy. And a bit like Nicky was saying with Alamola-Lukman, the thing that you've got to factor into good value, what's the best deal they can get out there in the market, how can they replace that person, is when you're trying to get a new regime under a new coach off to a good start, the last thing you want is a star player who doesn't want to be there hanging around bringing the mood of the place down so is he definitely going to Chelsea?

38:06I don't think there's a definite to it but I think for Chelsea he would be an opportunity signing rather than a planned signing because as I said I think Leipzig was so keen to build a team around him that kind of overpaid for him it's a massive fee for them to go out and pay and it hasn't really worked out part of that has been how the team as a whole has performed the fact that he's missed out on Europe completely a lot of things are changing there he wants to be at a team that's in the Champions League and aiming to win stuff I think there are a lot of people who look at it and say could he fit in the same team as Cole Palmer well maybe he could that doesn't necessarily mean that he should but I think if you're Chelsea and you're looking at that and you're thinking okay there's this club that have overpaid for Xavi Simons, they probably need to shift him.

39:00So we could go out and get him for a lower fee than we could have done, say, last year. Let's try and fit him into the same team. If it doesn't work, you've still got a player who's in his early 20s who are going to be able to reset. Ideally, you put Xavi Simons in a team and you build that team around him. For me, he is that good. But that hasn't happened over the last year or two and that hasn't happened for the netherlands either and i suppose really because he's someone who has got the skill to thrive in a load of different positions it would be easy to brush that bit under the carpet that he deserves to have a team built around him and that hasn't happened with the netherlands for example where he's made lots of valuable contributions without having the team built around him and really can you build the team around a guy like that is probably best in the number 10 spot when you traditionally play 4-3-3.

39:54I would have thought, Nicky, that at the very least, because I want to say a couple of words on Benjamin Sasko, he's been linked to Manchester United, and what we're hearing here is that despite RB Leipzig's problems, they've still got these heavyweight players there, that, you know, as Andy alluded to, that need to be shifted, and they're going to top, top clubs. It feels like RB Leipzig should be doing better than they're doing if they can afford to offload these people to the clubs. It's just brought us beautifully back full circle to what is Jurgen Klopp doing there. Global and global head of sport clearly is supposed to work across different clubs.

40:30But if his energy is currently in Leipzig, that's why. The problem with that, of course, is that then everyone turns around and goes, well, he's a pretty good manager. Why didn't you just make him the manager? Which is not the job he wants. And that's actually why he's in this job is because he's chosen not to be a manager, which is the bit that no one can get away from. But yes, Andy said at the beginning, this club, a lot of people have still not quite got over it because it's a model that isn't loved in Germany, but they have money and they're willing to spend it. And you imagine, again, it's not dissimilar, completely different context in terms of the club and how they've raised themselves to this position, but not dissimilar this summer to the questions around Atlanta.

41:11you're going to say goodbye to some big players and can you reinvest that money? We're very early in the transfer window. There's definitely going to be a lot of business done and I don't see why a club with Leipzig's resources that are selling these players wouldn't go out and spend some more as well. As keen listeners to OTC will know, on Friday you get your game of the week on Ask OTC. But today on OTC, we reflect back on last week's recommendation. Every week we ask our experts to recommend a game for us to enjoy over the weekend. And last week, Andy, you chose France versus Germany. That was a game and a half.

41:55It ended up being a one all full time after extra time and went to penalties. these? France always find new and spectacular ways to choke with the finishing line in view, don't they? In Women's Euros, Women's World Cup. I just can't explain it. Is that a bit disrespectful to Germany? No, I don't think it is because, look, Germany were fantastic on the night and given that they went down to 10 after less than quarter of an hour and then went a goal down, I think it's super impressive. They could have won it in normal time of course, but look France have got the talent to do it, but they never do do it.

42:41I was kind of wondering how would they find a way to not win it this time. By scoring a couple of spectacular goals that were ruled off as offside. That's possibly it. Of course the game was really about Anne Katrin Berger as well. Now since then we've had the semi-final as well in which Germany went out to Spain who maybe are the favourites of course some England fans might have issue with that but you know I think they're the best team there but Germany really pushed them I think Germany were better in the semi-final against Spain even than they were in this quarter-final against France look ever since we got to the quarter-finals this has been unbelievable it's been must watch football.

43:29It's been brilliant. I can't wait for the final. I'll tell you what, I thought this France-Germany game was one of the best, even though it ended as a one-all draw. It was so dramatic. It was. It was brilliant. It was. I couldn't stop watching it. You were going to have to be a larch for us for the benefit of our listeners because he picked, Nicky, he picked Veking, which I guess you know what that means in translation, being Norwegian, versus Buda Glimt. He decided to go native. ended up 2-4 Buddha Glimpse winning that one yeah this one am I allowed to just be honest about this one I could have spoken much more to France Germany than I could have this one I can't say that I saw this one but certainly it looks like Lars picked a good one because six goals you can never complain with that in the middle of the summer can you go on say a word or two about France Germany then I mean completely what Andy just said the tournament has been spellbinding I agree that I think Germany were even better against Spain in the semi-final.

44:27I think it's been all of it. Such a, such a treat. But yeah, I said, I'd say a word now, like the whole thing. There's been so much, so much drama in like the last couple of days in the football. I'm like, what happened to that game again? Because like all that's in my head is Bon Mati's extra time winner last night. Like I can't even think back more than three days. But yeah, Germany, what they've come through in this tournament in terms of injuries, in terms of continually digging deeper and finding new resources has been amazing. So yeah, they've had a brilliant tournament. I cannot wait for what both of you choose as your Game of the Week for Ask OTC tomorrow.

45:10There is a certain elephant in the room that we'll address, but I know you lot can do it very well. So I'm looking forward to that. And do join us again tomorrow where we'll be making our latest lectures for Game of the Week. and, of course, telling you what you should eat with it. Thank you for listening to On the Continent. Make sure you join us again tomorrow for Ask OTC, where we'll be answering all of your questions about the latest news from the world of European football. And do make sure to subscribe in your podcast app so that you never miss an episode. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of On the Continent.

45:44If you want more of that every single week, and why wouldn't you, search On the Continent and subscribe right now. We've got Ask OTC coming tomorrow. As the title would suggest, we answer your questions. Where we discuss if Marcus Rashford will succeed at Barcelona. And Nicky tells us how one of the Premier League's most exciting young strikers can put his career back on track at Roma. Don't miss it.

46:23On the Continent is a Stack Production and part of the ACAST Creator Network.

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