Penthony Gordon

0:00Luke Moore: Hello everybody, welcome to the Football Ramble. Wins for Arteta and Howe and a point for Eric Dyer. It's Thursday 2nd of October. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm Jim Campbell.

0:24Luke Moore: Welcome one and all to this Thursday thrill at the Football Ramble. And my goodness, Luke Moore, last night's Champions League was a thrill.

0:32Marcus Speller: Was it not? It's just so much action. It's so much action. You could not believe it. I was thrilled. It wasn't a Thursday then. It was a Wednesday. So it was a Wednesday wow. And it's now gravitated into a Thursday thrill. In retrospect, I'm thrilled. But at the time, I was wowed. There's a thrill over the show. There's so much Champions League action for us all to consume. Just feed us. Feed us. And we'll forget all our problems.

0:58Luke Moore: Jim you're particularly hungry for the Champions League this season considering your Arsenal team have got two wins already and let's be honest they've got their sights set for Budapest God May that's how I pronounce it like a local there Budapest

1:12Jim Campbell: yeah time to see a break for him is it?

1:14Marcus Speller: a little holiday that's your prediction again there Mark

1:17Jim Campbell: are you now saying that Arsenal are going to win the Champions League as well? it's Christmas round here Kodrupal actually no I'll go for a

1:23Luke Moore: I think they'll win the treble with Fulham taking the League Cup So it's V treble and not A treble. Should we shake on that?

1:31Jim Campbell: Do you want to shake on that now, Jim? Mate, if you had the power, I'd pull your hand off. Just my hand.

1:39Luke Moore: Pull something off, yeah. Let's start in Monaco, where Monaco drew to all with Manchester City. Bit of drama at the end. And Mr. Eric Dyer scored a 90th minute equaliser from the penalty spot. Donnarumma clearly not doing his homework. We saw him run over to the city bench and perhaps say, where's Eric going to do it? And they're going to go, well, of course, that penalty for England he took against Colombia, he put it to the goalkeeper's right. But if you were more studious than that, you would remember the penalty he took in the UEFA Nations League against Switzerland a year later, where he put it to the goalkeeper's left.

2:16Luke Moore: This is astonishing stuff. What a deep dive that was.

2:18Marcus Speller: A deep dive no one needed, wasn't it?

2:20Luke Moore: Well, I think it's entirely relevant because he sent Donnarumma the wrong way. Whereas I knew, I had a little nod thinking, yep, that's where I would do it. So if you were sitting on the bench

2:28Marcus Speller: in your little Man City tracksuit and he came up to you and said, Marcus, you've got a very specific job here at Manchester City and you're welcome to it.

2:37Luke Moore: When we play Eric Dyer and he gets a penalty

2:41Marcus Speller: and we need you, this is your time to shine. You'd have stepped up and you'd have said, that's where he's going to put it and Donnarumma would have saved it.

2:47Luke Moore: I would have said, I remember what you did in Euro 2020, Donnarumma. I remember what Eric Dyer's done for England. Yeah, he'll put it to your right.

2:55Marcus Speller: I also loved Erling Haaland on this he's just like so fresh the thing about Erling Haaland is he's like so honest and so efficient like he scored twice in the first half from seven touches in total two great goals then when he's asked about the penalty afterwards he said I didn't see it really but if you kick someone in the face it's probably a penalty that's it there's no like oh I want to see this I want to see that the referee's this VAR's ridiculous he's just like yeah you can't do that so that's a pen right see you later

3:22Luke Moore: Did you think it was a penalty, Jim? Because Eric Dyer, when he was asked about this, he went, yeah, there's contact. There's contact, which is usually an admission of it's not really a penalty. I can't believe there's controversy about it.

3:35Jim Campbell: He kicked him in the face. In the box. I know that it's not like he's tried to kick his head off his shoulders or anything. It's like, obviously, it's an accidental coming together. But it's one of those things where, as Harlan says, it's one of those things where it's just like, even if it's an accident, you've put your boot in someone's face. Clearly, there's an element of danger there if your boot is in a person's face.

3:57Luke Moore: Well, I mean, look, Jim, I feel incredibly seen and vindicated today. Eric Dyer wins a penalty and scores. And you've done your deep dive.

4:04Jim Campbell: And as deep dives go, this is like world-class bog snorkelling.

4:08Marcus Speller: He's got 5 ,000 words in the athletic coming out tomorrow, baby.

4:12Luke Moore: I can't. I don't even know 5 ,000 words. You can repeat some. Oh, OK. Well, maybe I've got a chance. But Eric Dyer, I did think it – I did think – I understand your points, but if you look at the replays, I thought it was maybe a touch soft. Right. Luke, am I being a bit silly there?

4:33Marcus Speller: Well, look, maybe I need to watch it back another couple of times, but I thought if you could put your foot that high in the penalty area and you make contact with someone, you probably deserve everything you get. So I'm probably in the Arling Haaland camp. I think there's a bit of a checkered history with refereeing around that type of challenge. Normally it comes from a goalkeeper.

4:54Luke Moore: Yeah, well, quite. How meant to, how that wasn't a penalty beyond me.

4:57Marcus Speller: Exactly, totally. Normally with goalkeepers, right, normally goalkeepers just get to do whatever they want. And even if they're nowhere near the ball and punch people in the head, it doesn't get given. Now that's changed slightly in recent seasons, you would say. VAR is clearly, you know, giving the people another way of looking at potential infringement. So, look, I don't think it's worth spending too much time worrying about it. I can see why it was given. It took a while to be given, obviously, to the point where we lost like five minutes. Probably the most crucial five minutes of a Champions League game because about 84 minutes to about 89 minutes, there was no football being played, which is ridiculous.

5:33Marcus Speller: But I think they probably on balance came to the right decision. And Eric Dyer's penalty was a good one. I think Man City should have been out of sight by this point. I mean, they were dominant. They had lots of chances. I know that Teze scored a brilliant goal in response to City, which kind of came from nowhere, really. But if you watch, I mean, people listening haven't seen much of this game. If you watch the highlights back on the TNT Sports YouTube channel, when you get a minute, I mean, the whole thing really is, particularly in the first half, is taking place in Monaco's penalty area. So if you get pegged back to that extent, and you're that dominant in the first half, and you do nothing in terms of goal scoring in the second half, I know they're a bit unfortunate.

6:14Marcus Speller: but Rinders hits the bar, Foden hits the bar. They're a bit unfortunate, I suppose. You can get pegged back. And if it takes a slightly controversial decision to make it happen, then that's just how it goes. I didn't think it was that controversial. I didn't really expect you guys to be asking me that much about it, actually. I thought, oh, it's just one of those. But City, again, were pegged back because they didn't get it done. And it's really on them rather than any kind of refereeing decision would be my take.

6:39Luke Moore: Yes, I think that's fair. I mean, with Man City, obviously, much has been made about their form from last season into this season. And I've had my say, Jim. But as the old adage goes, if you're creating chances, and obviously, if you've got Erling Haaland up top, you're going to take more than not. But if you're creating chances, it shows that you're still a force. You're still, you know, because, again, as Luke says, you know, by the law of averages, you know, you would put away a few of them. And on another day, they would be out of sight. So it's not, I mean, it's certainly not panic station, certainly not in the Champions League, four points from two games.

7:12Jim Campbell: I think if you were to look at this result and some of the results that you've had previously and a little bit of the kind of hangover of the concerns that, you know, people had around them last season, you might be forgiven for thinking, you know, that things are going a bit wobbly or the wheels coming off again. But I do think this is just one of those games, isn't it? and it's again it's worth repeating in every round of games even in the league phase that European away ties are generally quite tricky unless it's a massive, massive mismatch which this isn't on that scale obviously City are a much better team than Monaco but they are a competitive team from a good league they're tricky fixtures they're tricky assignments and we've kind of seen that play out again and one thing I did take away from the game was that the quality of Tez's goal made me think that coaches are looking at Donnarumma and just going, lads, just screamers, all right?

8:07Jim Campbell: Yeah. I just, like, don't head it when you can overhead kick it. If you get a chance to volley it and you don't, I'm going to fine you. Just, like, aim from far out, aim high. Just, it's the only way to beat him. And it sort of paid off for them.

8:22Luke Moore: He was, I mean, without going back to the incident in full, he was already on a booking, wasn't he? and when he did all that nonsense at the end of the game, lucky not to be sent off, but there he wasn't. I mean, Erling Haaland said, with regard to Mancini's performance post-match, we need more energy, we dominated in the first half, we're not the second, it's not good enough. Which, you know, I think we're kind of used to footballers coming out with those kind of quotes, Luke, when the game's maybe not gone their way. I mean, they beat Napoli, the champions of Italy, in the first game, although Napoli were down to 10 pretty quickly.

8:57Luke Moore: so I say I mean it's a certain panic station it's ridiculous you would fancy them to go through but I

9:02Marcus Speller: yeah but you've got to look at the context of last season as well Marcus right I was going to say I don't I don't I don't think we know that much about what type of Champions League team Man City are going to be this season yet because the Napoli game was a home game it was over as a contest really after about 20 minutes when I think it was Giovanni Di Lorenzo was sent off this game they've been pegged back they've been dominant particularly in the first half and they've not made it count last season And, you know, in retrospect, in the Champions League, the campaign didn't really get going. So they knocked over some average teams, some poor teams.

9:36Marcus Speller: And then they found it tricky, didn't they? They found it really difficult against Juventus. They got pegged back against Sporting. They finished about 20, I think they finished 22nd in the league phase, which meant they played Real Madrid. Then they just got knocked out, right? So it didn't really get going to the standard they would like it to have done.

9:51Luke Moore: Against the Real Madrid side that Arsenal put away, in hindsight, fairly comfortably. Yeah.

9:57Marcus Speller: Yeah. I think that's probably a fair shout as well. But then having said that, other than a little wobble at the end of August, they've been kind of getting it done domestically. They kind of feel a bit like they might be flat-track bullies at the moment. They knock Wolves over easily. They beat Huddersfield in the League Cup easily. They beat Burnley easily. They just go through the gears. But then when they play a team like Brighton away, who've got a really good kind of record against them, they lose. Spurs, when Spurs are at it, are a really good side in their day. They lose. They don't even score at home.

10:35Marcus Speller: So I think, Marcus, your take on Man City under Guardiola remains a really interesting one. And I think we might just be seeing a Man City team now, which is quite a good team, but that's maybe it. And they might get left behind in context of the standards they've set for themselves over the years with Guardiola, which isn't, you know, nothing to disgrace them. They're not going to go the way of Man United, are they? But they're just maybe not quite at that level. I think the next two Champions League games are particularly interesting. Well, the next three, really, because they've got Villarreal away, which I think is interesting.

11:12Marcus Speller: And then Dortmund, two German teams at home, Dortmund at home and Leverkusen at home.

11:15Luke Moore: Yeah, I mean, I know what you're saying about those Champions League games. The Dortmund one in particular, you look at just for kind of history and reputation sake but on the 10th of December you fast forward

11:24Marcus Speller: the go away to Real Madrid and their record away is bad isn't it in the Champions League yeah and I

11:29Luke Moore: just I'm very interested how he'll set up because you're right Luke I don't think we know what they're about in the Champions League this season in the Premier League but Jekyll and Hyde so in the and also in the Premier League when they played against Arsenal to me it's an admission of oh you're the better side so we're going to play like this are they still going to be doing that in December.

11:50Jim Campbell: Well this is it isn't it I think even had that you know had Man City come to Arsenal in December with a lot more sort of road behind them I think it's very possible that they wouldn't have set up like that because they'd know themselves a little bit better perhaps have a little bit more confidence but obviously you know we can't possibly know that but I would think surely as the season goes on there'll be a bit more adventurous in those games.

12:11Marcus Speller: Yeah and Guardiola is this kind of you know we used to have Guardiola this kind of mad tactical pino just loads loads of weird stuff that we never expect him to do, right? And if all of a sudden he's playing, you know, four up front or he's doing something weird with Karl Walker or whatever. If the kind of post-script, well, not the post-script, but if the final act of Guardiola at Man City, he turns him into like a turbo-charged, like Sean Dyches Burnley, that would be like, in a weird way, that would be fitting because it's not the only thing he hasn't really done. So it would be quite interesting if he got some success in some way doing that as well.

12:45Luke Moore: Totally, yeah. the aforementioned Arsenal beat Olympiacos 2-0 at home easy peasy Jim yeah I know

12:53Jim Campbell: I saw it I was there yeah well it was wasn't that easy was it? it was I wouldn't go as far as peasy there were times where it was easy but I think call it a professional job well done I'll use my own words thank you Marcus 5 ,000 you've got your 5 ,000 to think about I'm going to I'll stick with my own vocabulary there. It was a game that felt like it was going to be very, very easily won and then became a little bit more of a struggle because Arsenal were quite wasteful, really. There was a point at 1-0 where David Rea had to make a really, really good save. Other than that, Olympia Arcos didn't really threaten with a huge amount of purpose, but there were tricky moments in it.

13:35Jim Campbell: I think there were a lot of positives to take from it. Martin Odegaard was the best player on the pitch by a million miles. Probably a better performance last night than really any performance he put in in the whole of last season. He really looked back to his old self, which is the most welcome thing you could possibly imagine with my Arsenal hat on. So that was really good. He was all over the place. He played in Victor Jochores a number of times. And I think there's a particular chance in the first half that he blasted over the bar that he should really have done better with. And he's there to score those goals, particularly in games like this, the sort of, with respect to Olympiacos, the kind of mid-level opposition where you need your striker to just be burying that and making these games safe but you know there's early days in his Arsenal career etc etc but I expected more from him in those situations he put himself about a bit and he's interesting in that he seems like a real sort of contrast with a lot of the rest of the team sometimes and they are still figuring out those connections but generally there was a lot of positives to take away from it and it's really important that Arsenal get these sort of games won because they've got Atletico to come they've got Bayern at home as well and they go away to Inter those are three tricky games Atletico in really good form obviously we all know about Bayern particularly in the context of playing against Arsenal and they Arsenal lost 1-0 in the Santoro last season in in the league phase as well against Inter and then that's obviously a tricky away assignment so really really important just to get this done and another clean sheet as well a goal for Martinelli who looked lively looked sharp so yeah it was fairly routine um Miles Lewis Gally played very well as well so yeah we'll call it a semi

15:14Luke Moore: professional job well done then Jim I agree on that yeah I watched that

15:18Marcus Speller: game I thought they were going to get pegged back I just thought at some point they're going to get pegged back and this is going to finish one

15:22Jim Campbell: they seem to invite it yeah yeah and

15:24Marcus Speller: then obviously Saka got the job done that pass you referenced there from Odegaard through to Jacarese who should have scored was an absolute beauty of a pass it was so good

15:32Luke Moore: did you like the fact for Martinelli's goal he waited to see if it was going to go in for Jacarese's sake Luke he It did, yeah. It's very polite.

15:39Marcus Speller: It was very polite, wasn't it? What you need is, Olegado and Martinelli is a really interesting situation. I don't know how much you want to go into detail on this, Marcus, so feel free just to brush over it and move on if you want to. But I find it interesting that those are two players who are quite synonymous with the Arteta era and they've had really great moments. But as ever with football, particularly at big clubs, the whole show just rumbles on. If you're not careful, you get left behind. And all of a sudden with Arsenal, they brought in more exciting players and players who can play in those positions and there's no room really for coasting and for not performing consistently at the very highest level when you're going to try and go that extra step.

16:20Marcus Speller: So I thought last night, Odegaard gets an assist, Martin Lee gets a goal. It was much needed from them because if you're going to talk about how Arsenal have got the best squad in the Premier League which a lot of pundits are saying then it doesn't really work as a point if Odegaard and Martinet just drop off and become like also Rams and are running on like reputation. Now, I'm not saying they've done that. I'm just saying that you could probably see it from where they were. And last night was almost a bit of a reminder. We're still here, lads. We can still contribute. And that's a really important thing.

16:49Marcus Speller: And if I were an Arsenal fan, I'd be very, very happy about that.

16:52Jim Campbell: Yeah, the challenge for both of those players and to an extent, Leandro Trossard as well is to, as you say, not become that, not drift into that position of being kind of the second option and losing your place. the whole point of a squad like this is you rotate it regularly. He's been doing that. And actually, the players are responding to it, those players in particular. Now, Martinelli is someone who's had a lot of criticism from within the fan base, but he started the season really well. And he's maintaining that form as well with another goal yesterday. And he started on the right as well, in the absence possibly of Noni Madueke, who you would expect to normally rotate for Bukai Ossaka.

17:29Jim Campbell: And he's always been a bit kind of hot and cold playing off the right, but he played really, really well last night. And I think the competition for places is actually working in the way that it's supposed to.

17:39Luke Moore: Well, it's important. I mean, it used to be decades ago. And I think that, as Luke was saying there, that Odegaard and Martinelli, stalwarts of this Arteta era at Arsenal. You've got to throw an Eberreche Eze among the pigeons sometimes or, you know, Nondi Mandueka or whatever. And it keeps everybody fresh, as you've already touched upon. And William Saliba is going to be there for a lot longer as well. He's just signed a new deal until 2030. He said he can't leave Arsenal until he's won a trophy. Interesting that he didn't sign it to 2027, but he thinks at some point in the next handful of years.

18:13Luke Moore: Yeah, probably about three years.

18:15Marcus Speller: I'm not going to do that.

18:17Jim Campbell: Exactly, yeah. He did say he wants to win everything. And as you've said, Marcus, they're only doing a treble this year. So maybe he needs to wait around for the League Cup.

18:25Marcus Speller: He'd be gutted about that.

18:26Luke Moore: Keep signing extensions in the name of the League Cup. Now, what did you think of this? Mikel Arteta sorry has spoken about his request to remove the retractable players tunnel from the Emirates stadium claiming that the tunnel muffled the crowd noise and reduced the atmosphere for visiting teams he wants to intimidate them Luke he wants to intimidate them I'm surprised

18:48Marcus Speller: he's not pumping even bigger sound from like speakers and stuff out into the tunnel like it's proper like Barry Fry stuff isn't it any little advantage you can get I like it I quite like how unashamed with Mikel Arteta is about being this kind of, almost a combination of like David Brent, Jake Humphrey and a really good football manager.

19:13Jim Campbell: Yeah, he's very linked in. I have to say though. Oh yeah, he's so linked in. I don't love this because for me, it doesn't go far enough. Sure, you want to get the advantage of hearing the home crowd roar for you and it makes sense to take that tunnel away. But there's an opposition to think about. have them have a little tunnel that's pitch black that they have to crawl through yeah possibly smeared in hummus right and when they all come out all the arse of players can go oh north london hummus why hummus just get in their heads i thought you were going to say faeces just because it's a again again that's that's you can dip into your own vocabulary there i said i said faeces i've still got jobbies left to use yeah well there you go there you go but the uh just because of the criticism that you know north london teams get for uh for being very middle one specific north london team one specific north london team i don't have as much of us in top

20:05Luke Moore: that's fair yeah um i i think that i mean if you're talking sort of if you really want to push this surely the away dressing room should have see-through walls and all the crowd can see

20:18Marcus Speller: him getting dressed nice and then every so often you just you get a kid going past going i can see his winky mummy just to really demean them

20:27Luke Moore: you know I understand this is quite the departure but at La Bombonera where Bocca play the away dressing room is underneath where I mean they're all ultras in that stadium but the particularly extreme ones so when they're bouncing as they do the ground is shaking in the away dressing room you know bloody hell it's like in the Coliseum yeah exactly to go out to face

20:50Marcus Speller: a gladiator

20:51Luke Moore: totally yeah and I tell you what during cigarettes and alcohol on Sunday night at Wembley, the stadium was shaking. Time for a break. Agree.

21:08Marcus Speller: I'm bored watching Newcastle.

21:10Luke Moore: Welcome back, everybody, to the Football Ramble. Now, how about this? A big win for Newcastle United. Luke Moore on the road in the Champions League, but specifically in Belgium. 4-0. They beat Union Saint-Gilois.

21:23Marcus Speller: yeah it's a it's a really good result i i was um i i perhaps overrate union since you're a while for two main reasons one is because i saw them beat psv einhoven away last time out and they were genuinely good and secondly because of the journey of the portsmouth alumnus come on christian burgess incredible um incredible career arc and any opportunity i get to talk about him of course I take that opportunity with both hands. But I think Newcastle are a bit disrespectful to Christian Burgess' career arc last night by just pulling them to pieces. I thought it was a really, really good job. I watched the Arsenal game, so I didn't watch this game in its entirety beforehand because I was actually away because this was the earlier game in the day, wasn't it?

22:11Marcus Speller: But I particularly enjoyed William Osuda's forward play for Harvey Barnes' fourth. I mean, it's absolute quality forward play. Great run, great strength, great vision. and great weight of pass for Harvey Barnes to score the fourth. But overall, they were fortunate with the first goal. What hits Volta Marlon goes in, he'd be delighted with that. That's a Champions League goal.

22:32Luke Moore: If he meant that, it's a beauty. I couldn't really tell if he did or not, but either way, he gets it.

22:37Marcus Speller: Tannani seemed to think it was his, but it wasn't. And I think from then on, it was pretty plain sailing, really. Gordon looked really bright as well. You get two penalties as well, that's fortunate. It's a bad day at the office for the Belgians. both those penalties were, in my view, definitely penalties, even the second kind of handball one, because he clearly has his arm in, as much as the laws are stupid, I suppose, for different reasons in this environment, he has his arm in an unnatural position and it clearly stops the Newcastle player getting a connection on the ball. So it's an advantage by using your arm.

23:14Marcus Speller: So you have to give it as a penalty. Yeah, the first one is, you know, Anthony Langish is too quick for him. So all in all, a really good day at the office for Newcastle. Lovely little trip back. Presumably they're having a little trip back on the Eurostar as well. Not a difficult trip, is it, going to that part of Belgium? So all in all, a very nice evening.

23:31Luke Moore: Yeah, Newcastle's first away win in the Champions League, Jim, since 2003. Of course, they're the joint lowest scorers in the Premier League so far this season with just four goals. And the first game in which Nick Voltemada, Anthony Alanga and Anthony Gord-Penn started together up front. Anthony Gordon, surely. you put all that in there it's a great result and it's not just the result but the scoreline as well the amount of goals is probably just what they needed

24:01Jim Campbell: Yeah I think it's a sort of a release of pressure this isn't it and I do think those three players not starting together before and the kind of the relative lack of goals up to now those two things are probably related because if you look across those forward options that Newcastle have got there they've got Johan Wissler to come back and obviously Osula has started the season really brightly actually and it looks like he might be in a position to have a really good season without a lot of pressure on him actually because Walter Marder coming in is obviously the main guy. He's going to suck a lot of the eyeballs towards him and then obviously you've got Harvey Barnes who's so reliable off the bench as well so they've got a real plethora of attacking options there and they can mix that up, keep everybody fresh really well and I think once they've kind of settled everybody in there's every chance that they are going to be quite free scoring.

24:52Jim Campbell: And I think it's just a bit of a kind of quirk of timing that they've been kind of goal shy up to now.

24:59Luke Moore: Jim, Newcastle win on the road, Liverpool lost on the road. Is Alexander Izak already regretting his move there?

25:05Jim Campbell: I would think so. He has been exposed as a fraud. Which will be further delight to Newcastle fans, I'm sure.

25:13Luke Moore: Let's get back to some real chat though. And did you see the BBC sport article that previewed this fixture and honed in on Christian Burgess, the ex-Pompey man, as you've already said, Luke? And they started their preview feature on the side and Burgess with the following line. As a history graduate who studied World War I, Burgess knows more than most about the importance of Belgian resilience in the face of a richer opponent with greater resources. I thought, come on!

25:45Marcus Speller: It's great. It's great because football players with degrees is absolute catnip to journalists, isn't it? Yeah. Because it's essentially rooted in this really old and quite like, prejudice position that footballers are all stupid. So, which is obviously not true. And as soon as you see one who's got a degree, people just lose their mind. That used to be the chat all the time when Burgess was at Portsmouth. Oh, you've got a degree in history. You've got a degree. Everyone just talk about it all the time.

26:11Luke Moore: Yeah. That's funny. The degree's not really the bit of that paragraph. I honed in on, if I'm honest. Well,

26:15Marcus Speller: it's a massive stretch. I mean, if you want me to go in on, it's a massive stretch, isn't it? By the way, he is, I think he was, the article goes into detail about how he, I think he's the oldest debut title in the Champions League when he played at PSV. Yeah, since Steve Bould.

26:29Luke Moore: Wow. Great for Boulding to get a mensch. Lovely for Boulding to get a mensch. Absolutely right. So yeah, well, hard luck, Belgians, and a great win for the Geordies. Now, elsewhere in the Champions League, PSG beat Barcelona 2-1, Barcelona, of course, won at St. James' Park in their opening fixture. But the holders beat them. Proper end-to-end stuff this game. I do love Hansi Flick's desire and want and refusal to change from his high line. It was highlighted on the BBC highlights last night when I was watching that. And I thought, oh, yeah, I'd never really kind of... You kind of just expect a side like Barcelona to play on the front foot.

27:12Luke Moore: But even against PSG, like really trying to aggressively push them. And it ultimately undid them. The last minute as well.

27:17Marcus Speller: Suicidal stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shades of Ange?

27:20Luke Moore: Well, indeed, Jim. I think they're not settling for a point. And even though they lost the game, I respect it. But the big takeaway, of course, is that PSG, you know, get the victory against... So these are the two fancied sides for the Champions League. Not surprisingly, obviously, PSG favourites to retain their crown. But it's a statement win, Luke, you have to say, for the Parisians after their humiliation in the Club World Cup to the hands of Cole Palmer and co.

27:47Marcus Speller: Yeah, which seems quite strange now, doesn't it? Yeah, it does, which is why I mentioned it.

27:51Luke Moore: It happened.

27:51Marcus Speller: Yeah, well, fair enough. I think PSG are clearly going to, clearly are the favourites, obviously. I mean, Rashford just doing bits as well is quite funny. Great assist. Yeah, really good. And in that really crucial part of the game as well, it was a really good pass for the assist, absolutely. absolutely um but yeah look i thought i thought the i find the idea that you play in that way um and then you stick to it so doggedly that you find yourself in that position to concede that that winner so late on if you're for a fan it's just so frustrating yeah but on the other hand if you don't if you can't just obviously you can't just set fire to your principles then just play really deep because it's don't invite pressure on because that creates its own problem so i think the reality is probably just that you've got to stick to your system, right?

28:39Marcus Speller: And PSG are probably, I think PSG are a better side than Barcelona and they will be the team to beat this season for sure. I don't, yeah, I find that Chelsea thing and the way they went about it in the Club World Cup, it's very, very odd.

28:52Jim Campbell: Yeah. Another big moment and another big goal for Senemiyulu who obviously scored in the Champions League final. Very young man, really accomplished finish again because obviously they've already got so much talent at PSG. He's funny, isn't he? He's a kind of wonder kid that's also, you know, he's scored in a Champions League final and it feels a little bit from where we're sat that he's kind of gone under the radar a little bit.

29:15Marcus Speller: Yeah, he's just one year older than Laminya Mal. Yeah, exactly.

29:18Luke Moore: The composure he showed when he finished was quite sad. But you've got to mention old Consalo Ramos with another late goal at a crucial one. But also, I mean, you mentioned the Rashford assist. What about the Hakimi pass? It's Beckham-esque.

29:31Marcus Speller: Hakimi did an amazing block on the line as well.

29:34Luke Moore: Yeah, he did.

29:35Marcus Speller: In fact, PSG, they defended in quite a clutch way as well. There were two really good clearances in which Barcelona should have really scored. On Lamin-Yamel, I find it amazing that you kind of watch him, and I watched the extended highlights of this game, and Yamel is just, he's not just like a wonder kid player, which of course he is, but Barcelona kind of really hang their hat on him. He's like at the centre of everything they do. He's like really amongst it all the time. He almost looks from a distance, like a totally like a senior pro, which is kind of wild to think of. Because if you're playing like a wide attacking position and you're used to playing like in that way, a lot of those young wonder kid players that we see now, they play in moments, right?

30:19Marcus Speller: They just catch your eye with a moment or they score an amazing goal. They take someone on. Yamal isn't the thick of everything all the time. And he was against PSG and it's remarkable to watch. And he's younger than Maolo, who we started this conversation about.

30:31Luke Moore: Well, indeed. I mean, I know people might roll their eyes at this, but it is Messi-esque in that. Oh, yeah. Messi was, I mean, in terms of the quality and what he could do going forward, you know. But as you say, Luke, he's in the thick of it all. It's not just, all right, we're knocking it about and every now and then he's the kind of outlet.

30:55Marcus Speller: He is in the thick of it,

30:57Luke Moore: which is remarkable. Although, I mean, Luis Enrique did say before the game, for me, Pedri, without a doubt, is Harry Potter and I hope he doesn't bring the wand. So they do have other players. I hope you understand that bit.

31:09Jim Campbell: He uses his feet very well though, doesn't he?

31:12Marcus Speller: Crucially, yeah. You've got to worry about those a bit more. All the best players do, I find.

31:16Jim Campbell: I'll tell you what.

31:17Luke Moore: But apart from Donnarumma. Yeah, true. Yeah, and Joe Hart. To hark back to that. I mean, Marcus Rashford, okay, they'd lost the game But to be playing for that side among those players, you can see what it's doing for him. I mean, obviously, we've mentioned the assist. I mean, no Englishman has more assists in all competitions across Europe's big five leagues this season than Rashford. People might not be that bothered by assists.

31:44Marcus Speller: Greer's got the same matters in, by the way, so give him his flowers.

31:47Luke Moore: Indeed, yeah. But, well, and both of them are wanting to be in the England squad come next summer and vying for that position on the left side.

31:55Marcus Speller: They reinvent themselves by going to a different place. Yeah.

31:58Jim Campbell: One of the things I love about this section here where we're rounding up some of the other stuff that's happening in the Champions League, not involving the Premier League clubs, is that it essentially could be the same as if this was a Man United-focused podcast and this section was called Lone Watch. Just everyone smashing it.

32:16Luke Moore: It does lead us neatly onto Rasmus Hoyland and Napoli who beat Sporting 2-1 and he got a brace. And Hoyland posted on his Instagram, Hoyland scores twice in the Champions League after two assists from Kevin De Bruyne. It was not on my 2025 bingo card.

32:30Jim Campbell: Come on!

32:30Luke Moore: He's having a great time.

32:32Jim Campbell: He's celebrating his own achievements and he's having a dig at the most boring people on the internet who just copy and paste phrases like that in place of their own opinions and the use of their own vocabulary.

32:44Marcus Speller: Do you know what I loved about the Hoyland thing was that I was watching it going, thinking, two really smart finishes. Two finishes exactly of the type which would have inspired May United to sign him in the first place. Really nice tuck between the goalkeeper's legs after a great run, knowing what De Bruyne is going to do for you, because if you've got that quality of player, you can make those runs. Second one, lovely near-poster move. Great flicked on header, brave in the keeper's, with the keeper challenging him as well. Two things he did absolutely none of at Man United.

33:15Jim Campbell: To be fair to him, to be fair to him, so in the season before last, he got five goals in six Champions League games. That's not criticism of him.

33:22Marcus Speller: Sure. I understand that.

33:24Jim Campbell: But he also got six goals in the Europa League for Man United last season. So he's actually always looked pretty at home on the European stage.

33:31Luke Moore: Yeah, fair. Yeah. Fine. It is another player who's left. If he had done that well, we wouldn't be talking about him now, would we? Exactly. Yeah, if he'd done that well, he'd still beat Man United. But yeah, another player who's left Man United, whether on a permanent or on a loan, who's just having a lovely time. Those two goals. Let's be honest, there's a reason why we're mentioning them, because ultimately it affects poorly on Manchester United. As does Scott McTominay's continued brilliance at Napoli. I like this. Scotland's Ballon d 'Or representative, John Greachin, was the only judge who put Scott McTominay in first place for the Ballon d 'Or.

34:09Luke Moore: Come on, come on! And Big John's right. He should have been higher. He should have been up there for me. Should he have been first? Yeah, why not?

34:19Marcus Speller: I love the fact that John John Griesen as well the great thing about this the real deep dive takeaway from this top 10 because the top 10s were published is that John Griesen also put Denzel Dumfries really high presumably because Dumfries is the place in Scotland well yeah that's right Dumfries is fifth

34:35Luke Moore: Alexis McAllister's sixth he sounds like a Scot get him in

34:39Marcus Speller: yeah he'll do yeah exactly yeah McDembley was second

34:42Luke Moore: yeah he scribbled out Lamina Mal and put Lawrence Shankland in there He also actually wrote down Hootsman Dembele on the sheet.

34:52Marcus Speller: That's excellent.

34:59Luke Moore: So I just simply do not know. Yeah, coming up after this, there's a new Roy Keane branded bikini.

35:12Luke Moore: Welcome back, everybody. Now, tonight, we do indeed have a Thursday thrill as Nottingham Forest and Ange Postacoglu host Midgeland in the Europa League at 8pm. It's Forest's first European game at the city ground since the UEFA Cup quarterfinal defeat to Bayern Munich in 1996. What a sentence, Luke Moll.

35:32Marcus Speller: Lovely one to hear, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's a massive game, this. And every game is big for Forest in Europe this season for all the obvious reasons, not least because of that sentence you've just uttered there. but they need to get moving. They need to get going at some point. You know, Poster Coglu's not won a game yet. They've shown a bit here and there. The real concern for me, as I said, I think on Monday or whenever it was, maybe last week, that the big concern for me is that Poster Coglu is content with tearing things up and almost completely starting again and that's his right to do so.

36:11Marcus Speller: He's the manager. It's his job that's on the line, not mine. But I just feel like I know you've got your philosophy and you're stubborn about it. Same way kind of Ruben Amrum is, I suppose. But it's an arrogant move to come in and go, I'm now through good fortune, really, because of the way that the owner is. I'm now coming into a club who's enjoying some of the best success I've had for years and years and years. and the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to rip it up and get the team to play in a completely different way. Arnaud Slott didn't do that at Liverpool. He didn't come in and do that.

36:47Marcus Speller: He realised what was good and what was bad and he was confident enough just to not completely tear the book up and start again. Look, maybe that's not going to be great long-term because Liverpool are struggling a little bit at the moment, but you understand the point I'm making. So if you're going to do that, it's all on you. It's all on you. and they can't go seven, eight, nine games without winning one. I mean, they just can't do that. So tonight will be a really interesting game because Michelin have had a good start to their season. They're 10 games into their season. They're second in their division.

37:20Marcus Speller: They're used to winning games. They're confident, and they'll know full well the position Forrester in. So it'll be a good one.

37:26Jim Campbell: Yeah, although he was a lot more practical in the Europa League last season, wasn't he, with Tottenham? Good point, he was, yeah. And he for some reason decided that the principles he was always talking about sticking to didn't apply in that competition. so maybe we'll see sort of the best of Nuno's forest tonight if he applies that same thing. It almost feels irrelevant though, doesn't it? Because it just feels like whatever happens, he's going to win this competition with them. Even if they lose tonight, it's like there's so much road left.

37:51Marcus Speller: That's a big shout out, Jim.

37:53Luke Moore: Morgan Gibbs-White said, Ange is incredible. He's won things in the past. He's made that very clear with us in the dressing room. I bet he has. He's made sure though that he wants us to win things and he's trying to install that winning mentality into us when we get that first win we'll be unstoppable

38:09Marcus Speller: can I translate that yeah I was dropped for the last game and I was quite like to play again and he's incredible I play with this all the time it's funny

38:18Jim Campbell: it's also quite hard to think of any or to hear any Morgan Gibbs White interview now without thinking that someone is pointing a gun at him

38:28Marcus Speller: oh yeah he's definitely got he's definitely a mouthpiece for the regime that's true

38:32Luke Moore: that's true but look at home to Michelin it is a great opportunity as you say, Luke, for Anish to get his first win as Forest manager. And if they don't, ooh, pressure will begin to mount. Now, how about this? Former Nottingham Forest midfielder Roy Keane has been used as the inspiration behind a new line of women's swimwear, obviously. The Roy Keaney was debuted at Dublin Fashion Week this week and features pictures of Keane on the top and the bottom. It's highly unnecessary, Jim Campbell. but like me would you like to see Roy wearing one?

39:06Jim Campbell: Oh no no actually I thought about that for a second and it felt like the obvious answer was yes but it frightened me just to even picture it have you seen what the Roy Keane looks like? It is just a picture of him from when he was playing for Ireland looking relatively angry possibly just with Roy Keane's resting face on a bright green background it looks like it took 10 minutes for someone to knock it up and here we are talking about it job done well done it's so crap

39:34Marcus Speller: i love the write-up the write-up is if you're going away this winter to chase the sun what better way to do it than wearing your roy keeny so what are you fucking talking about

39:44Jim Campbell: what do you mean yeah what difference does that make to where the sun is

39:50Luke Moore: oh yeah it's it's just so so unnecessary but as you say jim they've got their mensch

39:58Marcus Speller: uh this is potentially a bit unfair and i don't know anything about the fashion world as anyone who's seen me dress with a test but is it is it perhaps the reason why dublin fashion week doesn't quite have the reputation of say london yeah i don't think it's going to maybe maybe the the

40:12Jim Campbell: novelty section isn't quite having the wider impact on the fashion world that they want

40:17Marcus Speller: i mean if it is the case i like it if that's what exactly what they're doing then i like it but i think the guy who designed it is actually quite serious i mean he seems to be quite earnest in

40:25Luke Moore: They are in the fashion world, aren't they? You don't get much banter in the fashion world, Luke, and that's why you and I have never gone anywhere near it. It's true. Now, tonight at 8pm, Feyenoord host Aston Villa. Aston Villa visit Rotterdam for the first time since their 1982 European Cup final, which of course they won against Bayern Munich. What a show for throwbacks this has been. Come on, it can be done.

40:46Marcus Speller: We're 1982, we're 1986.

40:49Luke Moore: We're First World War, Belgium. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Villa won back-to-back games for the first time since April with their victories against Bologna and Fulham. Speaking of Europa League specialists. Yes. So, yeah, Villa. I mean, it's the Europa League, Jim. It's Unai Emery.

41:09Jim Campbell: We're expecting, aren't we? Yeah, I think so. They've won two games back-to-back now. They've obviously had an appallingly bad start to the season that should be kind of beneath this squad and this manager. But they do seem to have turned that around. Obviously, they were very good in the second half, in particular, against Fulham. And I think this and Fenerbahce away are the trickiest ties in the Europa League. So they will want to get this one put to bed just to make sure that this is as smooth a ride as possible for them. They should really be walking through this group stage. And that should start tonight.

41:42Marcus Speller: I think finals are a good team. What I've seen of final, they lost to Braga narrowly in their first game. But domestically, they've been really good. so I think I suppose the fact that they got knocked out by Fenerbahce and the qualification for the Champions League is perhaps obviously doesn't show them in the best light but if you're essentially you're qualifying for the Champions League you drop down to the Europa League you've got to be able to have something about you and domestically like I said they've been good I think this will be a tough trip for Villa

42:11Jim Campbell: I think this is what Villa need though given the start they've had

42:13Marcus Speller: but if you look at look and they may well win well because a lot of the time in this situation we do see the quality of the Premier League and the heft of it kind of went out pretty regularly. But I just think that, fine, they narrowly get past Bologna, they beat Fulham and whatever. But I don't think the track record this season has been very good. And if you look at the manner and the way they've been up until this Premier League game against Fulham, they've just not been creating anything. They've been really poor.

42:45Luke Moore: But even against Fulham, Fulham don't have a striker on the pitch for most of the game. the first half, Villa were very shaky and were lucky not to be down at half-time.

42:53Marcus Speller: And Fulham could have had a penalty as well in another day.

42:55Luke Moore: Or should have had a penalty, yeah. So I understand that winning 3-1, Watkins getting his goal, we'll see if that translates into a bit more confidence and better performances in this fixture. But of course, Watkins knows how to score against the Dutch. So a late winner from Watkins, he'd be very happy. Sounds rude if you say it like that. now Crystal Palace face Dynamo Kiev in the Europa Conference League if Palace avoid defeat it will be their longest ever unbeaten run 19 games but they're off to Poland of course to play it yeah it's great

43:30Marcus Speller: it's great I love Palace I love watching them play I think they're great their vibes are impeccable good luck to them I say yeah

43:37Luke Moore: this is an interesting one though because obviously the playoff round that they played was I mean they won 1-0 over 2 legs a pretty drab affair and a funny time when people, you know, certain players come in or go in. And that was a case of just get it done. Now in the competition proper, Jim Campbell, they've got to show a bit.

43:56Jim Campbell: Oliver Glasner's experience with Frankfurt though will be key again. He is essentially key to everything good they're doing. And I think he's got enough about him to manage them through this stuff. He's got one of the big three.

44:09Luke Moore: Could this season, he gets two of the big three. That just leaves the Champions League left.

44:15Jim Campbell: well he gets that move to Man United and we all get it on our faces

44:19Marcus Speller: Chris and Paz fans won't thank us for saying this but Glasner's got absolutely enough under his belt to be given the Champions League job next for sure

44:27Luke Moore: thanks for listening to the Football Ramble part of the Acast Creator Network I'm back tomorrow with Jim and Vish for the preview show so make sure you get your ears around that lot thank you very much Luke Moore thank you very much thank you Jim Campbell thank you enjoy the football tonight we'll see you tomorrow

44:49Jim Campbell: The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.