Pete's Film Club: Kicking & Screaming

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3:33Welcome back to Pete's Film Club. If you missed last week's episode, we reviewed the film The Keeper. There was smooching in there, there was German xenophobia, and Offensive Northern accents aplenty in that particular performance. Did you enjoy that, Jim? I didn't watch the movie because I wasn't on Pete's Film Club's duty and therefore I will never watch the movie right yeah you don't need to now I actually think that I think it was fine it was broadly fine German xenophobia okay I mean it was during the actual war yeah so I think if you are going to have a hatred of another nation you may as well make it one you're at war with I think that's absolutely right and I thought the northern accents were fine but I'm also from the south of England so I don't know any different good point well today on Pete's Film Club we're going to be reviewing the 2005 film Kicking and Screaming.

4:21Roll the trailer.

4:48my son because I'm going to coach the Tigers. Kick it hard! Okay, that was hard, but I'm not on the field. I think I need to get some help. It's Mike Ditka. I'm a coach that knows about winning. Come on, move it! Move it! Pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass! Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay! Are you mimicking me? No. It's very... I thought Mike Ditka was good. He was great. We'll get into the performances once we've done a little bit more of an introduction to the film. Phil Weston, played by Will Ferrell, is an anxious father who... takes over his son Socrates to prove himself to his overcompetitive father, Buck Weston, played by Robert Duvall, who loves the soccer film.

5:26And who is also very watchable and everything. Yes. I was quite pleased to hear that Robert Duvall was in it, and I wasn't necessarily disappointed by him. He, basically Will Ferrell runs a vitamin store. He spent his life trying to earn the approval of his dad, who is a legendary youth football coach for the Gladiators, who also owns a chain of sporting goods stores. I mean, bless the production team. They've clearly gone through this entire film to see actually what the plot is. Or they just watched it, Pete. Which is quite literally part of their job. Carry on. Yeah, but it shouldn't be. That's your fault.

6:00It's an HR situation if you ask me. Phil's son, Will Ferrell's son, Sam, is on the team of the gladiators. But the buck keeps him on the bench. Sam has then transferred the Tigers to the Tigers. They're the league's worst team, which is made up of children who have never won a game. or seen a football like your team in the 50s yeah like you know over 50s yeah so of course Will Ferrell as is so often the case he's tasked with coaching the shitty team yes and so I could go through the plot it's very it's very basic stuff I feel like this film they've sort of went right has someone got any sort of sporting like child interest soccer film kicking around yeah we'll buy that script for 50 grand And Will Ferrell just freestyle over the top of this frame.

6:46Just freestyle. On the script, and you're right, of course, and Will Ferrell does phone it in. It's actually quite remarkable how many sort of average lines he's given. Yeah. Because you've got to put it in context, right? The context I would put in there is just that this is like post-Elf and post-Anchorman. Ferrell is a big star at this point. It's less than a year after Anchorman came out. and this is a period of time, I believe, for American comedies which is almost a bit of a golden age where you've got Ankhima, as I said, you've got Superbad, you've got 40-year-old Virgin, you've got Scott Pilgrim, Bridesmaids comes on a little bit later but it's that Judd Apatow era, isn't it?

7:28Judd Apatow produced this movie. Right, and the script is written by the two guys who wrote Space Jam and the Santa Claus, which are two other really well-respected Which makes sense, because actually, this was better than I thought it would be, actually. Kicking and screaming was what I felt like doing when I heard Pete's Film Club was coming back. Going to be making you watch it, yeah. But this is a lot better than I expected it to be, partly because it's a Judd Apatow-produced movie with Will Ferrell in it that's got some good kind of backup talent in it. Robert Duvall was obviously in it. And ultimately, it's got quite a high gag rate, which I think dips as the movie goes.

8:06but actually at the start it's like no this is a competently made comedy with some solid gags in it actually it's not so bad do you feel like it's are we just the wrong audience for it it's very gentle it's a family movie it's a family movie and you need to know nothing about football yeah it could be any sport exactly that so the football is the way that sort of soccer is always kind of like shown in these kind of things it's kind of like it's the game that people play to have fun it's frisbee when they're young it's just frisbee isn't it it's ultimate frisbee even though the men who do Ultimate Frisbee always find them very serious about it they are yeah they are I kind of divert slightly from what Jim's saying because I do agree that it's competently made and I do agree that it's broadly fine but I thought it was I thought the gags were like quite predictable sure yeah but there's a lot of them though right true so if one was obvious there'd be another one in a long suit yeah but the example I would use is like in the opening kind of stanza of the movie when they're establishing the dynamic between Will Ferrell and Robert Duvall, the father and son kind of competitive.

9:11It's basically the fast show sketch, competitive dad, but writ large. Without birthing Rory Jennings, who played the child in that. They cannot be blamed for that. I feel like it's more of the Alex Bruce story. It's a bit of Alex Bruce in there. It's a bit of Alex Bruce in there. But there's a kind of period of film where they're having this opening discussion where Will Ferrell's agreed to take over the shit team. And they're talking about it, in his dad's like man cave type room and they're playing darts and you know straight away because it's Chekhov's gun they make a big thing about the fish tank right so he's going to throw a dart into the fish tank he does the fish dies and then he throws a dart into his dad's neon sign above his bar bit oh that's going to be annoying as well and then for no reason on the way home the airbag just goes off in Will Ferrell's face it's like this is like proper like barrel scraping stuff yeah and there are loads and loads of scenes as you sort of alluded to earlier where it seems to be that whatever is happening just devolves into him running around shouting and falling into things.

10:09Yeah. Whether the story needs it or not. Because I think there's some missed opportunities in there. The phoning in bit is annoying because I think the idea of Robert Duval being a proper alpha male living next door to Mike Ditka who we'll come on to in a bit because British listeners might not know much about him and their rivals while his son is quite effeminate and runs a vitamin store. You can make more of that? that you don't even see Will Ferrell in the vitamin store? Well, I sort of get the sense that they did just let Ferrell do a little bit of improv, but he wasn't, maybe he just didn't feel as comfortable as he would later come to feel on a movie set.

10:48He's done Anchorman. I know he's done Anchorman. I know he's done Anchorman, but he was in an ensemble. Now he's by himself with Robert Duvall, which is quite a serious person. There's a bit where they make the joke that Robert Duvall says that his wife died, aka Will Ferro's mom and Will Ferro says he didn't die she left you your mom left you and he goes tomatoes, tomatoes and it's like whoa I mean like that's a line isn't it early in the film as well early in the film a really basic kind of like we've got nothing for this we'll just write tomatoes, tomatoes for now and we'll replace it when we get back to it but I also think that you know the assessment of Will Ferro is just like I would say it's the opposite Pete I would say it's like he's had loads of success he's probably so the Wikipedia article says that they were keen to lap up any film that had a sporting kind of bent with Will Ferrell in it since like old school right they were like it's just bankable stuff so I think Will Ferrell got paid a lot of money to do not much to just phone it in yeah that's what I think and it's not going to change your mind on him is it if you really dislike Will Ferrell you are not going to come away from it thinking oh actually you know what he's quite good which you may have done if you'd watched The Shrink Next Door for example do people dislike him there?

12:01I think a lot of people find him very loud and annoying and slightly obnoxious but he can he can actually act very well as seen in this rink next door on Apple TV which is brilliant and I also think if you if you do like Will Ferrell it's like this is more of the same so it's just absolutely him on autopilot it's Will Ferrell at 20 % one might choose I also found the Mike Ditka thing interesting yeah so at first Phil wants his team to have fun but they keep losing and this is very upsetting to Phil. And he recruits Mike Ditka, who is also his dad's neighbor and sworn enemy. But he plays himself.

12:41And apparently he's... So Mike Ditka is a... He's a former NFL coach. He's won the Super Bowl. He coached the 1985 Chicago Bears, who I've seen by a lot of people to be the single season greatest NFL team in history, along with the 72 Dolphins. And he is, I mean, as far as I understand it, although personally he's personally a very complicated character. Some would say a controversial character. In terms of his coaching credentials for that season alone, he's basically untouchable. And he's genuinely fucking good in it. He plays himself, but he's actually acted in a lot of scenes opposite Robert Duvall, and he's fine.

13:18Some of the best lines are his. Yeah, but he's played himself quite a lot. He's appeared as himself in lots of different sitcom episodes and a few other things where, you know, he's actually done it for a bit of time. so he's actually had quite a good run up to doing it across an entire movie by this point and you can tell because he's really comfortable in his own skin and he's funny the thing that gets me we watch like the is it Uber Eats or Deliveroo with Pardew and you sort of go like you could work with like a team of acting coaches for 15 years with some of our football managers or soccer players or whatever there would be a piece of shit next to grab anybody who has ever played in the NFL I just think like Americans kind of level of performance is just so much higher when it comes to the razzle dazzle.

14:04And sports stars are just way more charismatic than our sports stars. But he basically performs. We got Crouchy. That's all we got. But Crouchy wouldn't be able to act. I think he's quite good even in the adverts he's in. I think he hits his beats very well. But Dick basically plays the role of that classic character actor role. Yeah. He's Dennis the Menace's neighbour, isn't he? He's an angry neighbour. He's like Stifler's mum in White Lotus, right? He's that kind of, isn't he? Is he? That character actor type quirky thing. Sure. But he pulls it off really well. There's a really good running gag in it where his wife's trying to stop him smoking in the house all the time.

14:42Yes. And they're having a big old back and forth about it. He delivers some of the very best lines. I think Robert Duvall obviously, you know, record speaks for itself and he is better in obviously very different roles. and Feral is doing it in his sleep. But Dick could like, you could get the feeling with Dick who's like, this is my big one. I'm up for this. And he really kind of injects it with a lot of energy. So I thought he was good. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you're a regular listener of the Football Ramble, you'll have heard me talk about BetterHelp and how good it is many, many times.

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17:55The thing that also lets it down a bit for me is I know you are right to say it could have been any sport and actually the sport's not really the point but the soccer scenes are poor. I think whenever kids, certainly kids soccer gets shown. Actually, you know, soccer in a lot of these kind of things we've seen on Film Club, certainly American writers they do sort of go they come from a point that soccer is a piece of shit soccer doesn't matter it's a game for kids and I think I could improve soccer actually if only somebody put the ball on the back of their neck and walked forward which actually happens as the other children kind of protected with a wedge and you're like, I bet that writer thought they're going to do this at the World Cup it's just that kind of No one's thought of it.

18:47No one's thought of it. But the football scenes in The Keeper were good. They were. So it can be done. It can be done. German, they're like, they don't want to play football. British and German can't read. So I think, I suppose if you're an American audience, you probably don't give a shit about that. Yeah. Right? You're probably not bothered. So it doesn't undermine it because you probably think of it as a bit of a joke anyway. Yeah. And the fact that it's about soccer to them is probably an added comedy device, right? Yes. Because it's like, oh, look at this sport. but one of the things I was kind of pissed off about which I thought was like super lazy because you can kind of see why they've done it but it was shit I think I know what you're going to say was the thing that like Will Ferrell's character discovers coffee as an adult it's like oh Americans love coffee we love coffee it feels like a really odd side plot doesn't it it's Garfield's lasagna isn't it it is yeah but it turns into Will Ferrell becoming a monster and losing sight of the fact that this is supposed to be fun and it's supposed to be something he's doing for his son and they use him getting addicted to caffeine as the fuel for that.

19:49It is so weird. It's so like first draft. Like, oh, we should have a coffee. Something with coffee has got away from them all in the writer's room and has just stayed in and stayed in. They're all drinking because they're all drinking coffee. We're supposed to believe it. Like Will Ferrell, who was at the time a 40-year-old man, has decided he doesn't like coffee and so he doesn't drink coffee. He's never been in a coffee shop before. because some of his behaviour in the film is like he doesn't know how to behave in a coffee shop. Yeah, but that's the joke though, isn't it? Because he's got this arrested development and then Mike Dick comes along and makes him addicted to coffee.

20:23But do you know what it felt like? It felt a bit like they were trying to plug into the thing he does in Step Brothers where he's almost like an overgrown child. Yes. But they never really lean into it much. Yeah, they didn't lean into it enough so you didn't really understand what's happening. If this was an adult film it would be booze or coke or something. Do you know what I mean? Then now it's just like it's just a bit of a shorthand for a silly little device really that they should have replaced at some point. And there was a lot of anti-Italian discrimination in there as well. There was, actually.

20:46Oh, my God. There was also, there's a lesbian couple in it who have an adopted son who is Asian, and they are, the whole reason they're a lesbian couple in the movie is for him to be slightly uncomfortable in terms of knowing how to be around them. Like Ross and Friends. Yeah, similarly, actually, yeah. And there's a point where the Asian little boy has some sort of, like, Chinese music kind of underneath what he's doing, which is really just like, what? Ditka calls him a racist name. It's interesting that like... And given Ditka's personal political views, he's tremendously popular. Did he write this bit?

21:22Did you freestyle? It was a little bit like, it's really interesting to see, like when you see quite... I was... It's not really... I think it is relevant actually. Like the levels of which like quite palatable family entertainment can be really fucking racist and no one seems to care is a really interesting one. It's a problem because it sets a precedent for the young audience watching it, right? It is normal to think this is weird. Yeah. 2001, it wouldn't have been. It would have been 2007, actually. I'll bring up wrestling because it is relevant in this case. There was a Muslim wrestler character, basically, who had been radicalised.

22:03Vince McMahon's fine as well. All that shit. He radicalised and hated America and all that shit. he had a big he had a big sort of match I think 7-7 and he actually got cut from the broadcast on the UK but basically that was 2005 right sorry yeah it was 2005 so 2005 it gets cut from the UK broadcast for obvious reasons because there had been an atrocious terrorist attack in London and his career just dies after that because it just gets too hot to handle for the WWE no one really cares about wrestling because it's an under people think it's ridiculous and it is but nobody seems to care but it's just really funny that his final thing is I think Undertaker puts him through the fucking floor and he dies and there's blood on his head or whatever and he's like he's dead now so that character's dead he's done and then the next people who come out are some Mexicans on some lawn you know mowing furniture coming out and that's and that's the level of racism that is acceptable the anti-Italian sentiment that is the dad the Italian dad is waving an Italian flag, massive Italian flag on the sidelines and he's singing a song about meatballs and the Korean lad gets a racial effect thrown to him by the NFL guy.

23:21It's just, is it for kids at this point? The first thing one of the Italian kids says is mamma mia. Yeah. Yeah. And the whole point is, again, it's a really good example of the, not that it actually matters in this specific example, but just as a point, it's another example of the writers being American, not understanding football and going, well, Italians are good at football. So we just get two Italian kids, somehow bring them in as like a deus ex machina plot point to make the team really good. And all they do is say things in like an Italian accent, despite the fact they clearly seem to have been born and grown up in America.

24:02And they say things like mamma mia and they've got long hair and they're really good at football and quite mysterious and they do overhead kicks all the time yeah it's this very it's very kind of lazy and actually one of the one of the moves that is repeated over and over again when when the team get good is that when a player is is dribbling he will actually stop put his foot on the ball and backheel it to someone else who will pick it up behind them yeah and they do it over and over again without the opposition ever figuring out that this is basically their one move and it's like the writers again thought they've invented this move and that the other when the football's not ready for it.

24:35The other move they invent is putting one of the kids on the other kid's shoulders to do a header at the back post. And they joke about doing that earlier, don't they, as well? And there's another odd thing that happens during the football scenes, which obviously, you know, as we've discussed, not particularly good and not trying to be, where there's just a sort of unseen commentator. Yes! It's just a sort of voiceover over it. Well, it happens whenever they're playing, I think. But it's really prominent in the final game. Yeah. And you never actually see the person. No. It's not in the sort of area where in reality there would ever be someone commentating.

25:03But it's because the audience won't know what's happening otherwise in a football match. But one of the major plot points is this idea that when Will Ferrell starts drinking coffee and becomes like an alpha, bonkers, he bets his dad's prized possession, which is a ball that they got from Pele when they were watching a game together, presumably from New York Cosmos, where Robert Duvall's character... Don't try and add New York Cosmos in there. It might be. Pele is wearing the kit though. He is wearing the kit. In the flashback. And they get the ball from when Pele puts a shot over the bar and Robert Duvall steals it from Will Ferrell and keeps it even though it should be Will Ferrell who was a kid at the Times-born.

25:43Yeah, who actually caught it. Yeah. Then they essentially they confect some weird thing where there's a final at the end of the league season and they play against each other and ultimately it's either Robert Duvall gets to keep the Pele ball or Will Ferrell gets to get the Pele ball. Yeah. And then so to have a really dramatic end game. They have the commentator saying what's happening and all the rest of it. It's very kind of strange in one way. And also, I'm a big hater of movies that end up being way less than the sum of their parts. And we've talked about this today, right? So the example I would use most recently is the Peaky Blinders movie, right?

26:26The Immortal Man. You look at the fact that the geezer who wrote it has been writing Peaky Blinders, which is a great show for years and years. The cast is like Cillian Murphy, Stephen Graham, Tim Roth. Tom Hardy in it? No, Tom Hardy's not in it. Rebecca Ferguson is really good. There's some other people. And the universe is obviously already well established. It's a classic story of returning hero who's been out in the wilderness, which is one of those classic stories. And it's just boring as fuck. Oh, Barry Keogh is the other guy in it, who's also a hot property. it's boring as fuck it's far less than some of its parts this when you look at the writers when you look at the producer when you look at the leads when you look at the golden period or a golden period of 2000s comedy you go and watch Superbad now it's fucking amazing you go and watch Anchorman it's still really funny it's right bang in the middle of that period and it's just it's just average it's so average are you just disappointed about the Peaky Blinders movie because you've got that mural on your living room yeah I have my hair cut I'm disappointed because I've got curly blonde hair so I can never be like them No, but you're absolutely right.

27:32And actually, there's some surprising names pop up in this. So there's a situation we haven't spoken about, is there, where Robert Duvall is Will Ferrell's dad. He gets a much younger girlfriend, and they both have children at the same time. So he's got a brother who is the same age as his son. The brother is called Bucky. He's played by Josh Hutcherson, who was in The Hunger Games. He played Peter in The Hunger Games. it doesn't mean anything it doesn't mean anything you barely see this kid until right at the end and he's underused because obviously he's gone on to be quite a good actor Alex Borstein who plays Lois in Family Guy he has a little run in in the coffee shop with and Scott Adzit from 30 Rock was in it for about two minutes which meant I could think I was watching 30 Rock which was nice Martin Starr from Silicon Valley he's also in the coffee shop as an extra as well but I mean all in all it's a film that they all in all it's a film All in all, it's a film.

28:30I acknowledge it's a film. It's a film. There was a couple of good songs in there, I suppose. Walkie Talkie Man. Some pop punk in there. There was a bit of pop punk. A bit of Ride by the Vines as well. Walkie Talkie Man by Stereogram. They end on, I think, Stevie Wonder's version of We Can Work It Out by the Beatles. Right, okay. I think, which is pleasing. Very pleasing. Dick is a solid 60-year-old man hairline. I mean, you cannot deny that man's hair. You cannot deny how watchable he is. He's once described himself as, I can't remember the exact quote, but he once described himself when he was asked about his political views as, let me get this right, I think it was something like ultra, ultra, ultra conservative, the most conservative ever.

29:17I think he got booted off some TV network for saying that there's not been any discrimination or oppression of anyone in America for the last hundred years. what are you talking about yeah so but he is very very watchable in it and that's the thing isn't it if you can if you can if you can really harness that entertainment aspect which permeates every part of American society you can do well you can do well in a movie like this because he's very comfortable just being himself apparently he ran he nearly ran for US Senate against Barack Obama in 2004 here we go there we go love that what a timeline that would have been but there we go yeah like I hear his speech at the start going against Barrack so to answer the questions that producer Charlie put in the running order the worst character was probably I mean there's loads of bad characters in it loads of really poorly rendered characters in it so you have to narrow it down the best character was probably Ditka yeah I'd say I would say Robert Duvall because I think actually he does do a good job of being that terrifying patriarch who died who also died this year by the way and this is a fitting tribute to his death the quality of the football scene very poor awful and I think the best and worst scenes I mean I mean the worst scenes are probably the weird well obviously the football scenes but the worst scenes are probably the weird coffee shop conceit yeah and also there's one scene isn't there which I think is actually a direct result of the coffee shop conceit where the scene just devolves into him running around jumping on stuff yeah There's no reason for it.

30:58Kind of like Jay from the Inbetweeners when he jumps on his mate's car. Not even then, because Jay's doing that to serve the story, right? Because there's Jay being a dick. It's a little bit sort of character-based comedy. I don't remember the jumping around bit. Well, they keep taking the piss out of it. Oh, Will Ferrell? Yeah. It's sort of like they don't know what else to do. Right. The scene didn't end on a gag or anything. Story's done. Let's just, Will, just do what you like. And obviously the first thing is like, I'll just cause a bit of chaos. that was extremely boring you can tell sort of glimmers because he does at one point he comes into the room and he's talking to his son he goes what are you doing son isn't that dating oh yeah and you're like that feels like Feral riffing and they've left that in yeah but it's such a gentle bit of riffing yeah it was quite funny though because it felt like Feral was like doing something actually decent yeah sort of pushing what they could in a family movie to sum up I would say that it's a perfectly average movie I mean if you I can imagine my son was a few years older and it was a Sunday afternoon, nothing was going on, that was on the TV.

31:55I imagine he'd probably quite like it and it would be fine, but it's certainly less than some of its parts. It certainly could have been a lot better. There's no way on earth if you're looking for some kind of 2000s screwball off-kilter comedy, you are not reaching for kicking and screaming when there's so much of a choice around. I think it was upsetting because I'd watched Home Alone the hour before. No, it's a classic. It's a classic. I'd watched that that day, so I was like, I mean, that is an idiotic thing to do because that is one of the best movies. I watched The Godfather this weekend, forgetting that Robert Duvall is also in that.

32:26That's a stark contrast. Nice. Good stuff. I mean, in The Godfather, he is so good. He's brilliant. Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, Tom Hagen is just one of the all-time great characters. And I think, you know, it really does show the lot of a, even a successful actor. I mean, because you've got your Daniel Day-Lewises, and that's fine. Yeah. But most successful actors do do stuff like this. Yeah, like stuff like this. you sometimes wonder what are they thinking one for the accountant one for you is Robert Duvall thinking fucking hell I'm Captain Kilgore from Apocalypse Now what am I doing pushing a kid in the swimming pool at a barbecue which is what he actually does at one point yeah alright then guys what are you giving out of five I was going to ask the people who've reviewed the film aka you two what are we giving this out of five stars I think you do have to adjust your star ratings for time for Pete's Film Club what do you mean as in like it could be a lot worse yeah exactly I'm still going to go with a 2 I think okay I'll give it 2.5 I don't think it's worth a 3 but I think a 2 is harsh yeah I think it's a family movie it's not I mean it is quite offensive in places I get that but it's it's just it's just fine it's an infringement on my personal leisure time so it's losing half a star so I'm asking you've not you've not helped yourself by watching Home Alone and The Goldfather yeah Yeah, that's fair.

33:51In the same weekend. That's a good point, actually. All right, then. We'll be back with, I think, one more film club before the summer's out. And Marcus is back, so I've held back a stinker.

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