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3:01Streets like a jungle, so call the police, everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble. Arsenal won, but Lissandra Martinez is not happy. It's Wednesday, 14th of October. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm David Cartlidge. And I'm releasing a Humphraiser.

3:25Hello, everybody. Good to have you here. Thanks to Friend of the Ramble, James. Could it be that, James, for giving us that intro line? If you want to submit an intro line for a future episode, then become a Friend of the Ramble on our Patreon. You'll also get an extended edition of today's Ramble and every single Wednesday, we affectionately call it Ramble Uncut. Click the link in the show notes to sign up now and find out what we're really like. Right, gentlemen, Champions League, it returned, as I predicted it would. Yeah, yeah.

3:54Marcus Speller: Despite you being caught in your England fever dream, you didn't say to us, look, enjoy it, because this won't last forever. Exactly, yeah. At some point, this European muck will return. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be back there. Yes. But, yeah. Yeah, well Nations League is good European muck, whereas the Champions League is... Look, it's a lovely... Daytime German muck. That's what you're thinking. That's what we're all thinking. Yeah, it's a five o 'clock kickoff in Germany, what? No, it is good to have the Champions League back. Sorry for the bollocks, everybody. Manchester United had a tough start.

4:32The last thing you want really is to go to Atletico Madrid when you return to the Champions League, when you're not having a great time of it. and of course they lost 2-0 they were 1-0 down after about a minute and the man from Wandsworth Ademola Lookman made it 2-0 late on this means it's five games without a win for Michael Carrick and Manchester United should we just get straight to what Lissandra Martina said? yeah I was going to say there was a game but we can talk about the finer details of it all Lenny Yorou should have been sent off Doesn't matter. Doesn't really matter. The story of this game is not a routine defeat.

5:13And it is now a routine defeat. I think we can call it for Manchester United. It was the post-match interview with Lissandra Martinez. Many of you would have seen this. If you haven't, he was very, very candid. I think Gabriel Clark, doing the interview, couldn't believe his luck.

5:30Marcus Speller: Gabriel Clark? I suppose he's too European for a bit. Yeah, he's on the continent, isn't he? I like it. I like it. I think he was also a bit maybe Gabriel Carkel was like I've got so much shit for this during the World Cup please just give me a normal but it's not my fault he's just gone mental yes yeah yeah yeah he's yeah hot off the heels of or after interviewing Thomas Tuchel he's thinking I suppose I should ask a follow up question oh he's answered that he did it to and another one he did it to Teelovans and Carrick he was like look it's not me but your Argentinian centre back has gone gone off the wall yeah yeah yeah It's nothing to do with me.

6:06Marcus Speller: And Telemann and Caroline was nothing to do with us either. Telemann's a clearly been media day every single week at the club. Whereas Lissandro's obviously skipped it. There's also the bit where I think Gabriel Clarke has a realization because one of the things that Martinez was criticizing was broadly a lack of investment over the summer. But the way Gabriel Clarke framed it, which wasn't incorrect, was like, you know, he was obviously annoyed about the in-goings, the incomings in the summer, at which point you can see Telemans going, that was me. I was one of them. Go on, where's this going?

6:39Marcus Speller: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, some of the highlights from the interview, Lissandra Martinez said he had to control himself an awful lot with regard to what he was wanting to say. I mean, if this was controlling himself an awful lot, my goodness, what would he have liked to have said? He said the performance was very, very poor. He then spoke about the board. He said, you know, he's asked about, did you expect more investment? and he said, I expected more, 100%. I expected more from our technical director, which was Jason Wilcox. So he's not used his name, but he's called him out. I mean, there's no two ways about that.

7:12Isn't modern football a career for players calling out technical directors? Here we are, David.

7:17Marcus Speller: Also, Jason Wilcox at home being like, well, I'm technically director of football, so he might mean someone else. He could do. Assistant to the technical director. Just looking at the tree, the job structure. Yeah, yeah, him, him. That's what they're doing this morning. I was like, okay, let's try and work out who we were talking about. He said, I have to be honest, as players, we have to do more, but it's important when you make a strong squad to be ready for this kind of night. He claimed the performance on the night was a mirror of the current state of the club. And said, again, asked about Carrick.

7:50He said he's doing his best. So clearly he doesn't blame Carrick. That's certainly what we got from the quotes. He said, every season's different. You can't stay with what we did last season. He spoke about, you know, they had a great season last season, which... They turned it round last season. I mean, poor old Ruben Amarim was sacked, you know.

8:08Marcus Speller: But his point when talking about last season was that they built a great foundation to do something in the same - Sure, sure. And he's speaking a second language, so you're absolutely right to say that. And I think, yes, that seems to be the nuts and bolts of this. He's saying that we got ourselves into that position. Why then did we not make the most of this? Why did we not really kind of think, right, we're back in the Champions League. Let's go and do this. And he's saying that it just really didn't happen. And when again asked about Carrick from Clark, he just said, change, change, change, manager.

8:42Again, his words are effectively saying, what's the point in that? And he sort of motioned with his finger and in his eyes as well, looking at the people upstairs, essentially.

8:51Marcus Speller: He's been there for four years and had four different managers. Yeah. But that's the end offensive partner. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's spot on. And that's where he's at. And so, they were pretty explosive. I mean, seldom do we see a player being that candid. And especially talking about the hierarchy, the people who, obviously, the technical director doesn't employ, but he's essentially saying what a lot of fans have been saying for many, many years. Vish, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, where to begin? I think... The butcher's not happy with the quality of his meat. Yeah, yeah. That's it. Take it from there.

9:31Won a shot of a knife. We've got to a knife, I think.

9:35Marcus Speller: Yeah, I don't really know where to start with it, so I'll just come out and say various things. Far away, Elba. So it's interesting because his comments, those aren't the first comments about recruitment or about rebuilding the squad that have come from inside the Manchester United dressing room. Harry Maguire made a point of it. He said a really interesting thing during pre-season, basically about essentially how he expected to play less because of potential incoming, because you need to rebuild the squad and because he's at the age he is and just the demands over the course of the season and doing well across formats, across formats, fuck me, not cricket, across different competitions is reliant on not actually squad depth, but raising the ceiling.

10:21Marcus Speller: Luke Shaw said something similar. I need help. Yeah, it was a bit there. He was like, you know, we need, there'll hopefully be more people coming through the door because he made those comments after a game, but before the window had shut. Not just players, people. We need manpower. Lewis Hall, please call me. I'm getting too much stick every year. Hello, is that Harry M.S.? Yeah, you gotta hurry up, mate. More forgiving youngsters time. The other side to it is Martinez has had a bad start to the season. And the really interesting bit is when he left Ajax to join Manchester United, he said similar-ish things about Ajax's technical director, Gerry Hamstra, which is why he mentioned technical director last night.

11:10Marcus Speller: I say broadly similar because he called Hamstra a fucking nobody. He hasn't quite done that. What did he mean by that? Yeah, so that was reported at the time by Dutch newspaper, The Telegraph, and it was an in-person confrontation where Martina said that. So he will say it to Jason Wilcox's face. Well, do you know what I love about Lissandra Martin is he's clearly integrating with local culture, because that's what he says about the Dutch guy, Whereas our one doesn't, you know, just... I expected more from that. Yeah, so there were so many... Less confrontational than the Dutch. There were so many different strands to this because he's not wrong.

11:53Marcus Speller: I was surprised by the lack of certainly attempts to get a full back, particularly now for a front man either, given Cesco's had a recurrence of this chin injury that's been blighting him for about six months. And the other side of it is, I wouldn't be surprised if there's also a bit of a side play for Martinez to just get the hell out of there. Because, yeah, I mean, he's shown that in the past, and yeah, it's just a little bit of a mess, isn't it? It was interesting. Sorry, it's a lot of a mess, isn't it? It was interesting. He was up against his best mate in Romero last night, who offered similar tactics at Spurs.

12:28And don't forget, he came out and said, like, you know, I can't leave, so I think the club's not going anywhere. Along those lines, and obviously he got his move. Julian Alvarez at Atletico. Is this an Argentinian problem?

12:40Marcus Speller: Yeah, okay, anyway, let's stick to the issue. Are you suggesting that might be a character trait of Argentinians? It's hard to say. They have fantastic, you know, meat over there, they know what they're doing, so if they're not getting the prime cuts of steak, they will get angry, and I have sympathy with that. Yeah, maybe, maybe. Yeah, why we got you in today, David. So I think Lissandro is absolutely spot on in every single thing. Really? Secondly, I think he's very right to say what he did. I think So you Okay No no no Wait wait wait I think the only thing Going against him Is the fact that he has Also been rubbish So you know It's like I've seen a lot of people Kind of say like Oh why is he saying that He's been He's part of the problem He's one of the problems Which I understand as well So I understand both angles From this But I like to see players Speak candidly like this I like to see them Be frank I like them to To have awareness Of what's going on Around the club And what fans are feeling I think he's done that Where that comes from What place that comes from It'll be entirely for debate It could be him engineering a move He could genuinely feel like that I think he genuinely feels that I think he cares Yeah, I think he really, really cares He speaks like He's not going to go to a bigger club No, not at this stage and not with his injuries No, of course not He speaks like Ander Herrera did at Manning Ayd Very much in tune with the fans And speaks in that manner which is very different from a modern footballer.

14:10Marcus Speller: Ander Herrera is probably the last player I can remember to come from the outside, spend actually just a small pocket of time in the grand scheme of things at Manchester United and get it straight away. He does. Yeah, he's like every single club thought that of him as well. And I think Lissandro is of that same ilk and he understands it. So I really, really do agree with him. And interestingly, I watched the interviews after with that. I think it was with Rooney and... And Carragher. Yeah, and Ashley Young as well. So they spoke on it quite a bit, being ex-money night players, of course. And they kind of said it was disrespectful to the other players.

14:45Well, Carragher was quite scathing of it. He said he shouldn't be doing this. And I thought it was quite strange, because like Vicious mentioned, Shaw's said something before, obviously not to this extreme level. Maguire said something. So there's clearly a feeling within that team that something's going to miss at the top.

15:02Marcus Speller: Yeah, exactly. And it's clearly a bit of an us against them. situation with executives. It's essentially, and I appreciate it is like a well-worn phrase in journalism, but there is genuine civil war there. Yeah, it makes you do. Yeah. Because how do you have the confidence, regardless of Martinez as a character, to have the confidence to go out and say that, and in doing so, in your second language, as you mentioned, to do it articulately while protecting your teammates and your manager, it's very calculated. It was very well done, I'd say. I'm not surprised maybe that Carragher, say, would have taken against it.

15:48Rooney did as well. And Rooney said, look, I was outspoken as a player. He said, but I don't think this is the right thing to do.

15:54Marcus Speller: Rooney's done things like this. I was about to see him. I was about to see him. When he wanted a new contract, Didn't they say, I need to say more ambition from the club? Yeah. Admittedly, okay, he did it privately. But he still did it. Yeah, yeah. You know, he's maybe having a go at the method of the way that Lissandro has done it. But Rooney has got previous for this. Rooney did it privately and then somehow it got out. Yeah. Yeah. We'll never know how. I mean, I find it interesting. I think, I mean, Carragher said that this is the kind of thing the fans will love to hear. and there's so many, again, I didn't wade through every comment on social media, obviously, but from what, at a few glances, it did seem that the majority of the fans were going, yes, absolutely, which seems to be the position, because again, I sort of agree with what you're saying, David, look, he's right, Manchester United has been a bit of a madhouse for a little while now, and the lack of signing of a left-back, as you've said, and one or two other areas, is, okay, they have strength in getting Tiel Evans in and one or two others, but it just seemed too obvious to not do that.

16:58So I understand, and I don't think Martinez has suddenly thought, after they've been beaten by Atletico Madrid, I'm pissed off now, I better say something. Why he's come out now, I don't know. I mean, it may well... They're all very online.

17:11Marcus Speller: Yeah. He's just snapped, isn't he, as you say. He's an emotional, passionate guy. It's going to happen in that manner, I think. I tell you what, they want to be thankful maybe the people at Manning Aided, at the top of Manning Aided, and maybe glad that he didn't do it in Spanish. Because he might have been even more effusive and kind of like really, really gone in. I get what you're saying. Do you think though, I mean, there could be, I mean, maybe this has perhaps been a little bit unnecessary with going into this detail. But you sort of think, well, why now? I don't know he's just been at the World Cup with a team in Argentina who are very much all on the same page they are absolute band of brothers as we know whatever we may think of them you know they are greater than the sum of their parts and there is enormous unity within that side and you can see what a team can do when you have that and so off the back of that he's now back at Man United and maybe that's added to the to the feeling of of crying out loud this is you know I think this is It's a far cry.

18:12I mean, it's international football and you're comparing club football, but I don't know, maybe there's something in that. Albury feels a bit isolated as well. Albury thinks they haven't really got anybody, I mean, I don't know who his best mates are on the squad or anything like that, but like, look, if you're looking on the pure numbers of it, United spent 150 million over the summer on three midfielders. So, Hull and Dipswich spent more. Yeah. And then obviously, Manning United's rivals, the teams that they see themselves around, City spent more, 400 million, Chelsea Spurs, 300 million, and then Liverpool as well spent money.

18:38So they all spent money and Manning United were operating on this austerity thing, which has clearly come from the top, the top top. Glazer's Ineos. And then obviously whether Wilcox agrees with that, I don't know. Berrada, whether he agrees with that, I don't know. But either way, it has been executed in that manner that they have not spent. And we know they need a left back. We know they need a center forward and they probably need a center back as well, I think.

19:00Marcus Speller: Yeah. And the other thing about the, I mean, that's all spot on. And the other thing about the austerity side to it was, it's something they claimed at the time, while also behind the scenes courting Elliot Anderson and Lewis Hall. Two players who they weren't just going to get at a cut price. Well, we saw how much Anderson went for. Yeah, yeah. The three midfielders, they all started against Atletico. I thought Manchester United were better. They were more energetic. They played more incisive passes through the middle. Going down after 54 seconds is an aberration, regardless of whichever way you split it.

19:36Marcus Speller: And they were particularly wasteful up top. But the pattern of the game was such that I was like, oh, there's some good things here, but the narrative is so great that, and rightly, I think, that when the red card happens, we can debate whether or not it's a red card. I thought it was very unfortunate for Lenny Yorra. I can understand why Lukman went down. And then when you slow it down, it looks how it looks. but even then it felt like going back to well barely 12 months ago when it was like oh yeah it's another season wasted fine and that's exactly the point isn't it when you spot patterns you spot all this sort of stuff I look at that and I just think alright yeah yeah to the point of I think right now I obviously know that they've just played each other right now I think Spurs could have a more enjoyable season than Man United yeah because there's more improvement that can be there and more realistic improvement that I think will happen.

20:42Marcus Speller: Yeah. Manchester United is just... Alongside tempered expectation, I think, as well. I think one of the things that Manchester United have been badly afflicted by is not changing their scope in the post-Ferguson years, particularly in the last five years, where they need to be a bit more realistic about how they're going about things. and I thought they did brilliantly at the back end of last season, but they should have known that you can lose that position so quickly. Your standing from season to season fluctuates so much, as you have seen as Manchester United. You're not guaranteed Champions League football anymore.

21:16Marcus Speller: You're not even guaranteed European football anymore. We've seen it with Newcastle, we've seen it with Aston Villa. Yeah. And Chelsea, for crying out loud. But Manchester United, the brand as it is, do not see themselves, do not keep company with those kind of teams in their own head. It reminds me of Arsenal when Wenger, I don't know, sort of mid, sort of, what do we call those years? 2010s. That sort of era where you're looking at the badge and you're thinking, well, hang on, but that's that badge. And you're like, but yeah, but you've, what else? You look at everything else. But Manchester United...

21:46Marcus Speller: It's like the AC Milan kit. You watch it. Yes, exactly. And then you look at the squad and go, ah. Yeah. Right, where's Kakar? No, it's... Still relying on Pulisic, is it? Are you going to bring on Modric? you know, to change the game. No, I know what you mean. What did you think of, you know, go back to Michael Carrick. Nicky Butt claimed that Michael Carrick was prepared to walk away from management until Sir Jim Ratcliffe offered him the Manchester United job. And Butt claims Carrick told him management wasn't for him, but he'd do it for the big job at Manchester United. Now, look. That's a bizarre comment, mind.

22:20It is quite bizarre.

22:22Marcus Speller: I think it's just pint chat, isn't it? It probably is. It's kind of a conversation that like, I don't know, if we all went for a drink and it was like god I'm sick of Jack's encyclopedia I can't be yeah it sounds like one of those things that they just said casually to one another and then Butts thought I might pull the cord on this because he might not have much in this job and I understand he wants a bit of publicity for his podcast and all that sort of stuff I get that and we've just given it to him and it was before the game by the way he's not you know this would be the same group of players like Nicky Butts who'd be like why are all these players leaking it's ridiculous Why can't you just have a private conversation anymore?

22:58Because they're not genuinely terrified of their manager like you lads were. And I understand why you were. It's not a criticism. Another one of Manning Aiton's big problems is there's so many ex-players in the media and around the club. It's insane. Podcasts, TV. They've all got a big platform. It happens in cycles as well, doesn't it?

23:14Marcus Speller: I remember growing up, you couldn't move for Liverpool. Yeah, Liverpool was definitely Hanson, Lawrenson. They were always on there pranging when anything went wrong. when the earlier and such. Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, I oddly think now Martinez has come out and said that. Obviously, there's been a lot of talk about Carrick under pressure. In a weird way, I think it's relieved the pressure from Carrick. Because if they were to sack him, say, like, take the next international break, which I'm delighted to say is not that long away. Ridiculous. You said that. Nobody else is saying that, Marcus.

23:48Just let me have it. Yeah, I know. It's always important to do something no one else is doing, David. and no one else is saying. If I see Will Langshier in the England squad, then I'll be happy I'll be on board with him. Oh, right. So there you go. See, ladies and gentlemen, everyone's got their price. And we've just found David's. Now, I'm just more honest. So the second international break is statistically more likely when managers are sacked. And I did fear for Carrick, and I thought, well, a lot of pressure. But I'm telling you now, I don't think they could sack him after those comments.

24:19Marcus Speller: There's a lot riding on Leeds on the weekend. What a place. At Elam Road. Which I think was where Ruben Amarin managed his last game. I think that was the game. Certainly the defeat that triggered the end. That's an awful place to go at the best of times. Leeds. Leeds. And right now it is the best of times as well. That's why they haven't got an Ashes test next year. Is that right? Well, I love Leeds as a city. You know what I mean. Yeah, I know you. After just being beaten by, you know, Arsenal on the last weekend, obviously another member of the red cartel. Leeds will be wanting to put that right.

24:59Gentlemen, we are going to move on from Manchester United. But just very quickly, how good is Barrios? Very good. Yes, glad you've said that. I adore him. I think he's absolutely outstanding player.

25:09Marcus Speller: He's like, obviously, Atletico do this with every single one of their players. But there are so many games where you'd watch Barrios and be like, just a workhorse. And then he ran things last night. He's got so much more about him. He's got that energy and physicality, but very, very smart footballer. Technical level is high. Lovely little drop of the shoulder to create himself space and under high pressure. Wonderful football. He really is. In terms of Atletico, where they are right now, obviously with Simeone, he's still there. That's a given. Second in La Liga currently. Could they do something in the Champions League this season?

25:46I mean, obviously it's been a while since they really made an impression on the Champions. League but I mean could they could they go deep in the competition? They're very confident about it they really like this squad I think a lot hinged on what happened to Alvarez and the fact that he stayed and he's remained yes his form hasn't been particularly good since that issue but the fact that he stayed has given them confidence Barcelona I think are kind of in another stratosphere so it's always going to be difficult to catch them in the Liga but they'll always fancy themselves in the Champions League and in this format as well they this is this is their this is their meat and veg.

26:16I'll tell you it's been a while since they've gone for obviously they got the semi-finals last season. Which wasn't too shabby. They're a good side. They've got some nice depth there. Always tricky. One of the last teams you want to face in the Champions League, I think. Nobody wants to face that. Still love that. Oh, by the way, before we go for a break, if we can talk about Manchester United adjacent things. Former Manchester United refielder Jesse Lingard has a new manager over in Brazil. the manager of America round is a worldwide phenomenon and Clarence Seedorf has been appointed Corinthians manager come on now if that doesn't warm your cockles I don't know what does are we going to see Seedorf doing the little little gel I hope not oh yeah I think we're going to see that

27:03Marcus Speller: although I think he is I think he is primed to be influenced as it were like in the modern definition of the word because I didn't realise that he's moved to Abu Dhabi like he lives in Abu Dhabi Oh, right. What, Lingard or Cedar? Yeah, who knows. I've got to train him once a month. Yeah. Him being Corinthians head coach reminded me of when he joined Botafogo. And there was a photo of him in his first training session and he was like sweating buckets. And he takes his tops and wipes his brow and his abs are insane. Yes. And he would have been like 50 at the time. You could clean your clothes on them.

27:43Marcus Speller: I mean, he's only 50 now, but he would have been 40. Like, he was just incredible, Nick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad you mentioned that. That was kind of why we mentioned Seel, just to all remind ourselves of that. All right, coming up after this, Harry Kane's got a schnitzel problem.

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30:52Marcus Speller: Will Stanway, the Cheltenham keeper, he played a short pass into Ben Stevenson and it was a sort of pass that you really don't want to receive when you've got a guy coming up your ass. Oh dear We're back to the football Rumble everybody

31:08Arsenal thrill

31:09Marcus Speller: He knew what he was doing there Yeah he did Arsenal three Lille zero Was that on the BBC By the way Who did that It was the Not the Top 20 Podcast Oh okay It was Ali Yeah yeah Yeah it was Ali Maxwell I think it was Good man He is a very good man Salford's Callum C Arsenal three Lille zero Arsenal Blitz them in seven second half minutes. It was a good performance from Arsenal in that second half. I'll tell you something, I was at the match last night. The first half, a little bit restless, some of the Arsenal fans. It was like, come on, this is not that good. Obviously, Lille had the ball in the back of the net.

31:46It was a tight offside call. But when you can bring on the likes of Odegaard and Havertz and Monserweather's that Arsenal did. Yeah, Saka. That is quite the statement. I think Davide Ancelotti, of course, son of Carlo, in charge of Lille, and I know Davide won't mind if I remind everybody he's Carlo's son. He never mentions it.

32:11He very much was just like, yeah, when they do that, we just can't keep up with him.

32:15Marcus Speller: He turns to see a geriatric Giroud. Come on, come on. Giroud got a really good reception last night. Yeah, as he should do, yeah. Yeah, the former Chelsea man. But before, actually, Arsenal did go 1-0 up before they brought in the substitutes. it was Duran Timmer who got the goal. It was a lovely finish, David. Lovely finish. Very composed. Very nice finish. But they needed that because, I say needed that. I know it's the, this is the funny thing with these early rounds of the Champions League. Arsenal, if they had, I'm sure they had, they'd be well aware, of course, but you see how PSG often need to go through like the playoff to get to the next round of the Champions League.

32:51They just, we see what they do tonight, of course, at the Etihad, but there are some games in the early round of the first round of the Champions League, where they basically phone it in and think, we should be okay. They're not that bothered about losing games. And then, of course, they massively ramp it up. With Arsenal, obviously, I went all the way and only just beaten on penalties in the final. In the first half of this game, I felt like Arsenal, you want to do that professional job. But, you know, you're playing against a decent opponent and you do have to put them away at some point. And there was, as I say, a little bit of restlessness from the crowd.

33:24And then the second half, it's like, right, we need to turn the screw now bang bang bang job done yeah I was going to say it was a triple sub kind of change everything did against Leeds as well they brought three on then as well they do exactly the same and I think Arteta wants that energy from those who do come on and I think Timber's a wonderful player by the way if it wasn't for the injuries I think he'd be a set regular in the Arsenal team he's a really good player he adds a lot I think he's a very different dynamic he adds as well when he's on the field for them so if they can keep him fit I think he'll make them a lot better a very good team already better.

33:59But I'm sorry, but I simply can't get away from just how bad Giocco is. It really is something. And I know I bring this up every single time, one probably, but I think it was 12 touches, six passes, no shots.

34:11Marcus Speller: I've never seen a professional footballer playing at that level who steps on the ball so much. Yeah, I know what you mean. It's remarkable. It's like his boots are too big. Yeah. It's like he's a size nine, but his boots are 12. It's really odd the way he flaps about with his feet. And I, yeah, I just thought, they've just got to get rid of him and move on from him. They really have to. It's not working. Giroud would have, you brought up Giroud. He would have done a better job last night. He would. I'm serious. 40-year-old Olivier Giroud. I mean, I'm deadly serious. Yeah. As you chuckle at the end of that sentence.

34:42I mean, I know we're talking about this season. Do you feel last season, Jocker has added something to the team? No. He doesn't fit whatsoever. They need to move on. They got to a point where. Despite the goals. I mean, he didn't score a load of goals, but he just scored some. He scored some. How many of them were really decisive? I don't know. He isn't a threat. Teams aren't scared of him. I'm sorry, but look, those numbers I've just read out, you can get away from Haaland because you know he's going to plunder in 30-odd goals. Giorgores can't do that. He's not going to score 30-plus goals, so he can't have games like that.

35:09He needs to be more involved. He needs to be doing more. Everybody keeps saying about his running and his movement. I don't think it's that particularly good, and you can get somebody who costs far less to do exactly the same as what he's doing right now. They need a serious centre-forward, I think. Yeah, I mean, the case for, Jokeres is getting harder to sort of defend and as you know obviously is the head of the strikers union you know we are under a lot of pressure here but Victor Jokeres I mean these are the games really it has been said before that in Europe then you know maybe not a different type of football to the Premier League maybe he's more suited to that and obviously off the back of the Nations League score a couple of goals for Sweden I know the opposition's poorer but still you know potentially build the confidence at home to Lille who aren't a bad side but they are a side that Arsenal should and evidently did comfortably beat and as David says those stats aren't great yeah you're I mean you're spot on there in that

36:04Marcus Speller: this is the kind of game where Arteta would have gone to Jacarese and thought have your feel yeah certainly another striker playing the defending a defending champion of England playing in this playing at home this early in the Champions League that is really kind of sink your teeth into this lot, get a bit of confidence, let's build from here. We're building up midweek for the weekend basically. Yeah, like I feel like he gets a lot of credit for the runs because that's something he does and I don't even think he does it with all that much conviction. He just does what any striker would do. No striker just stands in the middle waiting for the ball.

36:41Marcus Speller: Not even Haaland. Not even Haaland, you know, one of the best to do it. He takes very deliberate spaces. I think Jokeres just does it for the sake of it because he's seen someone do it on TV. But it's quite like, that's probably a bit mean, but you look at, obviously they were 1-0 up before they make that triple substitution. But look what it did to them. In the minutes afterwards, they're like, great, we've got people who are comfortable on the ball in every area of the pitch. Exactly. And look, admittedly, Lille were a lot more defensive than Leeds were. I thought Leeds were really bold on the weekend and they really said, we're going to have a go at Arsenal, which was really refreshing to see.

37:16I enjoyed that. So it was less space, tighter for him to move about in, but come on, it just isn't good enough. It simply isn't. Yeah, I wonder what Jokic is. I mean, you know, he was Arsenal's top scorer last season, certainly in the Premier League. And so he did give something, like statistically he did.

37:35Marcus Speller: Do you not think other people, I feel like if we rewatched all of his goals, there might be a couple from outside the box where we thought he scored that. I feel like a lot of them other people would have scored. Well, yeah, if you play out front for Arsenal, you're going to get chances. So there is that sort of argument. I wonder if with Jokeres, that he is pretty easy to figure out. And so if you didn't do that last season, when you're coming up against him this season, I think that opposition defenders will be briefed on how to deal with him. There's that also as well. When he signed for Arsenal, he comes in thinking, I've got a chance to be the first name, the first striker on the team sheet.

38:19Is it going to be him and Havertz? And obviously Havertz has injuries. And it's become very clear that Havertz is the number one striker now. And I just wonder with Jokic, if there's a confidence issue there. I don't think his talent will ever mean that he's one of the best forwards in the Premier League. I suspect at the end of the season, Arsenal will part ways with him. But I look at this and I'm thinking, come on, man. I wish him well because I never like to see a striker struggling. But again, it's hard to make the case for him when it has so little impact in a game like this. But here we are.

38:55Eberreche Eze scored, though. He did. And he, you know, Arteta was saying about Saka, you know, I'd like to see you start scoring two, three goals a game. Obviously, Saka scored as well. With Eze, it's often been the case of him. He has spectacular moments, but the numbers aren't as impressive as they might be. And another player's sort of been in and out the side. But he gets his start. And I think, by and large, he took his chance last night. Obviously, in the first half, he missed one. We probably should have scored. But he looked, particularly in that second half, I think when Saka, Odegaard, and those guys come on, it does give everybody a lot of confidence as well.

39:27Yeah, I was going to say, I still think he's, Ezi still needs to understand. And I think he does understand it as well. He needs to adapt fully to the fact that he is a cog in the works at Arsenal, whereas at Palace, he was kind of the main gear. He was the one who was running everything, whereas he has to do different duties. It's not just about being the main man as he was at Crystal Palace and everything runs through you. He is part of a unit here and you've got responsibilities on both ends of the pitch and I think he has to still adapt to that fully for him to become a better player. Let's go back to Davide Ancelotti if we may.

39:58He's compared himself to Prometheus, the Greek mythological titan who stole fire from the gods to gift to humanity. I suppose if you are Carlo Ancelotti's son you would be quite self-confident, wouldn't you? He said, al-Davide, I identify with his human side. He helped humanity a lot after creation. He stole from the gods and always stayed on humanity's side.

40:22Marcus Speller: So is he really into Greek mythology? Apparently so. He's a self-proclaimed prodigious reader of Greek mythology. Wow. Davide, what do you think about your mum? Should we explore that? Yeah, where's your Achilles heel? Yeah, I like it. I like this kind of bollocks. You like that? Yeah. It reminds me when Owen Coyle compared himself to Moses. Oh, it reminds me of that. Yeah, I think... Let's get this right. I think it's when... Does he think Moses divided opinions? That's not quite it. He divided the red cartel. I think it was when he switched from Bolton to Burnley. Right. They were calling him Judas and he basically said, oh, more of a Moses character.

41:07I like that though. I think that's great. He reminds me of that. It always made me laugh. Oh, lovely. Lovely to hear his name.

41:12Marcus Speller: Of all the literature out there, the idea that he had to lean on Greek mythology as someone who was a man of the people. Yeah, he didn't just go biblical. He decided to go Greek mythology. Yeah, just like Robin Hood. Robin Hood's the one. I mean, if you're stealing from the gods, steal from the rich. People will go, okay, I see what you mean there. Also, so presumably he thinks in a football context, he's stealing something from a greater power and giving it to more people. Carlo. True. But is Carlo's use in this? You must be. Because it was not... Who's the handsome one? Is there a handsome one?

41:49Marcus Speller: I think they're all quite good looking, aren't they? Apart from Medusa, she's the one who's a bit off. There'd be no excuse to be an ugly. If you're in charge of everything, why do you make yourself ugly? Yeah, I know what you mean. So wasn't Prometheus was banished from Mount Olympus for doing that by Zeus? I assume so, yeah. Zeus can't be happy if someone's stealing these flowers. So Carlo is Zeus? I guess that's where... Yeah. He's opened a can of worms here, hasn't he? Oh, yeah. He's opened a can of worms. He needs to go and court in Greece and then see it there. See how they ticked it. Oh, he can't see it there.

42:17Yeah. Which one did Matt Damon play again? I don't remember.

42:21Marcus Speller: He played the one who couldn't be arsed going home to his wife Yeah. Because he found a blonde he liked on an island, basically. It was a nymph, isn't it? Was she a nymph? Was Charlie Theron? I don't know. I think so. I'm looking at production staff. Can we Google that? This is the stuff you should know. Can we also Google... Don't know. You should know this. Can we Google a photo of Davide Ancelotti's mum as well? And Owen Coyle is... Oh, it is. It is Charlie Theron. Yeah. It is. My goodness. How about that? There we are. Glad we sorted that. Matt, if you're listening, email in. Tell us. Showofootballamble.com.

42:53Yeah. But Mark Wahlberg is also you know, welcome to emailing. People often get them confused, apparently. Do they? Yeah, they've got a deal that if someone confuses you for me, then you have to be really nice.

43:04Marcus Speller: Yeah, right. That's a great shout, yeah. Why is Matt Damon always getting up at 3am?

43:13Marcus Speller: Oh dear, he's very funky. All right, elsewhere in the Champions League, Norwegian side, Viking, or V-king as we have to call them, got a famous draw with Bayern Munich see we call them Bayern Munich we don't say München but we do the accent thing for V-King I suppose maybe I should just chat up and get on with it but they drew three all that make me V-ish yeah it would how can I refer to myself weish weish yeah do you remember when Mesut Ozil signed for Arsenal and everyone with an O including some journalists changed the accent or was it above the E I can't remember there's one above the O right Mesut Ozil, yeah.

43:52Marcus Speller: I saw loads of people change that. Maybe I'll do that with mine. Some has done it with Odegaard, but not as much though. He's not a bigger figure as Ozil. Yeah, okay. Not really well. It ended 3-0 in Norway last night. It was V-King's first Champions League home game in 33 years. What a game it was! Unbelievable. They did so well. They were 2-0 up, of course. Yeah. The second goal in particular, you've got a long time to think about that, the striker. Also, the first thing you did, which is what they coached everyone, is that once you get ahead of that last defender, step across him. And it totally takes the defender out of the game.

44:27It was textbook stuff. It really, really was from Christensen. I thought that made the strikers union proud.

44:37Marcus Speller: It was also a really good example. I mean, the first two goals, one from a set piece, Even though he's a winger. One from a set piece, the way he cuts across his defender as we say, it just highlights how well coached that team are. And it was a lot of the build up ahead of this was obviously like, you know, as you say, like so long since they've had a home Champions League game of all teams, Bayern Munich, but also like just how well coached they are and how ready they should be for this. And it played out. Yeah, it was 92-93 season when they were last in the Champions League. Yeah. You see? also who got Bayern Munich back into it thank us later lads Kane was brilliant wasn't he Kane was brilliant but he was I thought you were talking about Man United there what have we done for anyone us he's already jumped shift us you see back on board to England I was about to say you I'm a Fulham fan you're Man United fan we are gagging for that next international break let's be honest I can't believe he's already left Vish is one of the ones who Lissandro was referring to Those at the top.

45:40All we need to do is get your man in the squadron and we've got a full house. But it was great. They went 2-0 up and then predictably Bayern came back and went 3-2 up. I mean, it's one of those things if you're a Viking fan, you're a bit like, Kane scores, he gets his penalty voucher. It was a penalty. Can we play penalty voucher? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he scored. And then Lewis Daz and you'd be like, that is a bit wrong. But then Michael Alisa has a meltdown. That was bizarre situation. What's going on there? Yeah, so he pulls the vegan player back, so it's textbook yellow card. Yeah. And then in amongst that, after they've got themselves back into it, throws the ball in the fella's face.

46:16That was...

46:17Marcus Speller: What does he do? I've never seen... I think anyone who's played competitive five or eight a side in a midweek, I'd say competitive, but there's always someone who's A, too good, and B, takes it not as seriously as everyone else, which is fine, until they get pushed to a point where they're like, why isn't this working and they just flip out and start kicking people. And that was, I saw that in Elise's eyes. I was like, you think you're too good for them. Yes. This is a waste of your time and you're annoyed that you have to try now. Yes. Oddly, he probably wouldn't have done that if they were chasing the game because he's got the brief.

46:51We need to get back and we need to prove. Right. We've proved our point.

46:53Marcus Speller: He did it during the World Cup. He got kicked loads during the World Cup and he was just like, no, I need to win this game. And in that situation, he was like, this shouldn't be so difficult. Why are you annoying me? Against Paraguay, I thought he did really well not to react. If there's any situation you're going to react, it was that type of game. But yeah, he's clearly fed up of just being called nonchalant all the time. And he was like, right, I'm going to do something about this. I need a new tag. And off he went. Angry Michael. Yes, very angry. And then Herman Haugen scored the equaliser, the death.

47:22Which was a famous night for Viking, of course. Now, Harry Kane, the man leading the line for Bayern, of course, and England has revealed that he gets schnitzel delivered every week in Germany and as he put it so he has no choice but to eat it it's a clever strategy it is very clever so I don't know it may be I can't imagine schnitzel would be something that would be footballers would be discouraged to eat because if you get sort of protein heavy I mean maybe

47:53Marcus Speller: if you shallow fry it in avocado oil it still works avocado sorry Vish say that again what if you like If he was a schnitzel shallow fried in avocado oil, then it wouldn't be as fatty. Never have Sunderland and Surrey been so united at the same time. The game's fucking gone, man, honestly. Avocado oil. It's been a bad show for me. Yeah, go on then. Carry on. Master chef. How big do you think it is? Because in my head it was big enough to feed his family. Well it comes on the back of a big lorry. Like in the Flintstones, they put it on the side of his car. Harry, here's your schnitzel old boy. Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to cancel that.

48:35Marcus Speller: Dad, I don't want to eat your schnitzel, you have to. Otherwise just get in the bin. Come on, drink that beer from Oktoberfest and get that down you. The neighbours are all coming round. Can I just cut off a big bit? We haven't got anything to do this enough. Yeah, well there we are, he's got no choice but to eat it. Schnitzel, I mean schnitzel's good, what's not to like? Yeah, it's great. Not to like. It doesn't travel well though, if you get it delivered. I thought that as well. Yeah, it's one of those things. It's like I wouldn't get a burger delivered, do you know what I mean? I know what you mean, but let's be honest.

49:03I think Harry Kane, if he's getting stuff delivered, he's probably... Maybe he's sending his own... I don't know. Yeah. Some sort of chamber.

49:12Marcus Speller: Do you think he's lying about it? Do you think he's ordering it? It's like, oh, they keep giving me shit. Yeah. Oh, do McDonald's keep delivering at 2am? What is all this about? They really want me to front one of their ad campaigns, don't they? Well, anyway, good luck to you, Harry. Enjoy all the schnitzel you can. That's what I'd say. That is what I'd say. There was another... Well, I say another. It was a six-goal thriller. We had a seven-goal thriller in the Champions League last night. Klubbrugger won against Inter at the San Siro. How about that, David? Yeah, that doesn't happen very often at San Siro.

49:46It was an incredible game. Klubbrugger, brilliant result for them. But my moment of the game was that beautiful man in goal for club rugby, Jan Sommer. When, not Lissandro,

49:57Marcus Speller: Lattaro. He sits him down. He does, honestly, because it was such a great goal, Martínez. I know Martínez, he scored a couple of goals. But yeah, you're right. He's played in, sits him down. He's thinking, right, I've just got to side foot. Sommer is up so quickly. Oh, wonderful save. Superb goalkeeper. Martínez did brilliantly to sit him down, but then totally botched the finish, I think. I think. Of course he let Summer back into it. That sounds quite familiar with Lattaro actually. His career summed up. I don't want to start talking about this. Is Moratti still there? It's probably his fault.

50:34He certainly got one in the summer, the little sod, but there we are.

50:37Marcus Speller: Can we throw some credit towards Carlos Forbes, who was involved in all four goals? Yes. For Brugger. Yeah. Just so, so rapid. Yeah. Couldn't live with him, yeah. Yeah, I know, he was great. Yeah, brilliant win. There we are. Right, coming up after this, it's still Pep Guardiola's house.

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53:21If Pep Guardiola went on Grand Designs, you know when he moans when people overspend? Yeah. Right. He would have serious issue there, wouldn't he?

53:31Marcus Speller: He would. He'd get into it with Kevin MacLeod. He has a bit of pep about him, actually. I know what you mean. Aesthetically. Yeah, but I think Kevin MacLeod's got both feet on the ground, though. He's not a madhead. He can go, he can flip out. But you know, it's like on Grand Designs, that's one of the great things about that show, is when he's saying, right, so your budget was 200 ,000. Now you need 1.3 million. You've overspent that. And he gets so annoyed. Pep, I don't know what you think, but there's no such thing as an inverted chimney. Yeah, something like that. Sorry, Pep, but you can't have that bespoke Norwegian Deccan.

54:05Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wish he would have read out the guilty verdict of the overspending.

54:10Marcus Speller: What do you mean you're going to get another conservatory sponsored by Etihad? What are you talking about? So it says you've overspent by nearly 900 million pounds. Talk me through that, okay? Why have you got two mortgages on the same house? that doesn't even make sense yeah no you respect the process stop crying anyway Man City against PSG tonight at 8pm it's their first home game after being found guilty of breaching the Premier League's financial rules I know they've appealed but that's they are currently guilty that's how it works okay They're coming up against PSG, quite fittingly, you might say.

54:58Marcus Speller: Fellow bastards. This is one of the underrated things from the... Is this what Luis Enrique said? No, what Nasser Al Khalif is. When they, you know, there was that conference during the international break, that Soriano and everyone was at. And he was there, and I think someone got a word with him, I can't remember who, which publication. But he was like, look, I'm sure everything's above board. let the process play out kind of the reading between the lines no one has to look at anything that anyone else is doing we're all in this together in some way it's like a succession when Tom goes on the stand and he kind of just makes it worse it's like I'm just not going to elaborate any further because I'm going to mess it up here well Luis Enrique his press conference was saying that he hopes Manchester City avoid severe sanctions and get to keep their titles after being found guilty of breaching Premier League financial rules.

55:55I can't say any more. I don't think I need to say any more. Okay. But anyway, so Pep Guardiola is going to be in attendance for the game. That's nice, isn't it, David? Yeah, I guess. Returning to the scene of his coaching. Yeah, the end of that sort of thing. He'll be there. He'll be there. Enzo Mareska said that the Etihad is still Pep's house. I mean, you would, wouldn't you?

56:18Marcus Speller: I think that's... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pep's house. Kevin MacDonald's so dumb. Well, it's his house. Yeah. I heard the one in Abu Dhabi's Pep's house as well. Come on, pal. I... Yeah, I like that as a... Yeah. Well, I mean, I didn't buy that. That was... That's... I didn't do that. Yeah. I look after it, but no, I was holding it for a friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's basically what they're saying. Is that what it is? Yeah. If Enzo Moresco or Pep Guardiola... I wasn't looking to supply... Somebody will try and have a word with Pep Guardiola, of course. And I sincerely doubt he's going to have any time for a microphone.

56:55Marcus Speller: But in that brilliant Pep Guardiola way, he will madhead it. Well that's what I mean. That's his way of like deflecting. So I would encourage journalists to not give up, because he will bat it away, bat it away, until he doesn't. And he'll do something mad like take off his trousers and be like, you can have this. If you want, you'll have the shirt off my back and the trousers off my legs. It's also against them. It's everyone against City. Can you sign these before you give it to me? Because they were worth a lot of water. That's what he could do. Do you think if Pep came down to the dressing room at the second half time, and he goes to Maresca, you don't mind if I coach the second half?

57:31Do you think Maresca would let him? I think Maresca would turn to the camera and say, that's an Abu Dhabi do. Have you seen that ad campaign? Yeah, I think that's how that would work out. It is worth noting that when Pep stepped down as manager, he was appointed as global ambassador for the City Football Group, by the way. So he's still in the family.

57:53Marcus Speller: Yeah, and I think that speaks to why he felt compelled to do that tweet, why he has been so vocal in his support during the last month or so. I mean, he's going to, isn't he? He's manager there for so long. But he's also contractually obliged to. I mean, there is that. Yeah, he was in the tent. Nobody who's in the tent is going to say anything, isn't it? Well, I mean, it's really weird. So, Nick Harris is leading the charge against Man City, the journalist. Doing brilliant work. I think that's unfair for... Okay. No, no, no. Not because of the work that Harris is doing, but it's not one person...

58:32Marcus Speller: Like, they have fucked up. Yeah, yeah, sorry. I think we should constantly... I understand what you mean. Okay, fine. But we are constantly talking about it, and I know we're like joking about it as well. But as I said at the start, they are guilty. Yeah, they are, yeah. And there are loads of things that they've done, and there are loads of other things that will come out because of it. So when I said he's leading, as in very much on, certainly on Twitter, and has been very forthright in his findings about Manchester City over these, I know other journalists have as well. Sorry, the reason I interjected there was because also he's getting a lot of shit.

59:10Marcus Speller: He's getting a lot of... Unnecessary shit from faceless wankers on social media. Yeah, for doing his job. Yeah. That's the thing. So if you don't do anything, you get the whole lazy journalism thing. If you do do something, then you'll get a lot of this. So he's doing a brilliant job on what he's doing. You can't keep all the people happy all the time. But he is calling out a lot of people on Twitter who are associated with Manchester City. and they are pumping out these weird PR style tweets. And he's saying, are you contracted to them? Have they paid you? What is going on here? Because this is just odd.

59:43There's something very fishy going on here. I think I saw you message Burnham, didn't he? He did message Burnham. Yeah, yeah. Burnham's meetings. Burnham's, yeah. Yeah, sure.

59:54Marcus Speller: And I think number 10 have come out and said that they will be divulging them, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think they have already. I think they've posted the meetings. I think I want to say it was maybe the son of the Telegraph who posted out something overnight as well. I can't remember what it was now, but some new detail. But this whole PR thing, as you say, with obviously Guardiola is going to do that because he's contractually applied. Pep Guardiola, are you big? Oh, you are. Fine. But the other, the great thing about some of Harris's questions to those people is I've seen a couple just say, Oh, how dare you?

1:00:27Marcus Speller: How dare you ask me that question? You can answer it. Yeah. It's the classic thing, isn't it? It's this classic politician's answer. If nobody answers the question directly, then you've got to be suspicious of that. Now, even... Obviously, people can bare face lie, but they know that if they're found to be lying, then that can look very, very bad on them, you know? So, anyway, we'll leave that there. So Man City against PSG tonight, I mean, it is a big one. It is a big one. But I fear off the field stuff may well be at the forefront of our minds when that happens. But it'd be... And that's the sad thing.

1:00:58That's the reality of this.

1:00:59Marcus Speller: As we were saying about their brilliance on the field against Liverpool, like today is just going to be the strangest like, oh, okay, fine. This is basically like the end of Space Jam. Do you know what? I don't think I've ever seen Space Jam. Watch the first one, you don't need to watch the second one. Okay, you can tell me what happens. The Goodies win, right? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Of course they do. Of course they bloody do. They always do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael Jordan doesn't lose, even to little fat aliens. Man City, PSG. Are the Goodies going to win tonight? You've got to figure out, are there goodies?

1:01:33Marcus Speller: Is Nuno Mendes a goodie? I like him. He's, you know, good left back, isn't he? Yeah, there you go. Kovac Killia, he's a nice guy. Yeah! There we go, there we go. There we are. And he's from a country where they've got five St. George's crosses on their flag. And midnight trains as well. Is that right? Yeah. Bloody Nora. What will they think of next? Elsewhere in the Champions League, Villa host Fenerbahce. That's a nice game. Yeah. and Liverpool head to Lask. The way you said that, I was like, oh God, what have they done? Yeah, yeah. Even I was second guessing and I was early putting something in my mind.

1:02:06Yeah, there you go. There we are. All right. And finally, everybody, this is a lovely story. This is a lovely story from the Champions League. Manasseh Kianga, who three years ago, whilst living in Rotherham, was playing Sunday League football in Doncaster, is in the squad for Yaya Torres, Slovan Bratislava tonight in the Champions League. Three years ago, he was playing Sunday League football. And this is not three years ago. Oh, actually, he was an academy player. He was playing Sunday League football. And now, he could be on the brink of playing in the Champions League, David. That's, that's, come on.

1:02:40No, that's... We need that. After all that bollocks we just spoke about, we need something like that. No, we do. That's a feel-good story. That's exactly what we need and the right way to end the show, I think, after all that murkiness. The hosting Stuttgart, in case anybody fancies watching that one. There we are.

1:02:55Marcus Speller: It might be a bit too late for Pete and I to jump to that. Oh, you never know. I guarantee you, he's already there. Incredibly, you managed to go away with him. Don't call him, he'll call you baby. I did, yeah. Also, I woke him up 20 minutes before we had to leave the Airbnb. I just remembered as well. I was very surprised. We got our Airbnb review back and he was very complimentary.

1:03:25Marcus Speller: There's only so much you can do when you spend about six hours in an Airbnb. Where to next for you two? I don't know, I'm open. I think Marcus and I, we've spoken about this before, I never used to do European away trips and I want to do more of them. So if anyone has recommendations, hit me up. Yeah. Real Madrid. Thanks for listening to the Football Ramble, part of the ACARS Creative Network. Friends of the Ramble. Is that Eurostar Paris Springs? don't go anywhere keep listening for Ramble Uncut where we will be talking about all manner of things and if you're not a friend of the Ramble sign up now at patreon.com forward slash football Ramble lovely old job thank you very much Viz cheers thank you David thank you to the butcher and yes thank you to the butcher indeed

1:04:19Creator Network.

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