Ramble Reacts: Carabao chaos at Stamford Bridge

0:00Hello ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Ramble Reacts. It's Arsenal winning the bridge, but the tie is still alive. I'm Marcus Speller. And I'm David Cartlidge.

0:24Well, hello, everybody. Lovely to have you with us. we are one leg deep into the Carabao League Cup semi-finals David tonight we witnessed Chelsea 2 Arsenal 3 more goals than what we saw at St James' Park of course an entertaining game at Stamford Bridge I'd say yeah proper cup of tie had everything I think just about had a bit of quality had a bit of sloppy play but so what we got a good cup of tie it was really really entertaining I thought Yeah, Liam Rosinha, of course, in the dugout for Chelsea. This was his first proper test. Well, the biggest test he can have, really, in terms of domestic competition.

1:06Obviously, Charlton was pretty straightforward for starters. But Arsenal come into town, you can't mess around. How do you think he's feeling right now? Is he slightly relieved that they're in the tie? Will he be a bit disappointed at the manner of some of those goals? Because you mentioned a bit of sloppy play. Well, we'll have to talk about that in more detail in a minute. Yeah, we'll go on to that. But yeah, I think a mix of emotions. I think he'll be a bit disappointed over how sloppy they were, the manner of the goals that were conceded, goalkeeping errors. The defence was all over the place at times for large parts of the game.

1:41But I thought they showed a bit of character and they showed a bit of fight late on. I think their heads could have quite easily dropped. We've seen it from teams before. Their heads drop when they go down. They're a couple of goals behind. but they kept scrapping away, they kept fighting and one of Rosini's changes paid off straight away pretty much with Garnaccio. So yeah, I think he can take a lot from this game to be honest with you. Yeah, okay. Well, he's lost his first game, of course, as Chelsea manager, but I think that might be a touch harsh to just kind of just leave it there. His picture was on the front cover of the Matchday magazine.

2:16He was wearing a suit. He was looking sharp. He comes away, as I say, on the wrong side of this result. Arsenal fans are singing you're getting sacked in the morning. You know, just a little bit of light-hearted Caramel Cup banter, David. That's what we're going to treat that as. It is pure banter. But let's get down to it then. Ben White scores the opening goal after seven minutes. Liam Rosina won't have liked what he saw there. And it was interesting. Ben White said in a post-match interview that Arsenal knew that they would have a man's spare at these set pieces when they were obviously looking at how Chelsea defended and so on and so forth.

2:56And he said that most likely he was going to be the spare man. So it proved to be. He got his goal. Again, he likes scoring against Chelsea. He doesn't like scoring against too many teams but he likes scoring against Chelsea, Ben White. And it was 1-0. It was a soft one. It was a very soft one. But I mean, Arsenal will be happy for that. So we're happy with that. And look, They're the set-piece gods. So, of course, they analyse these things. They know when they've got a spare man over. But I tell you what, to be honest with you, looking at the replays of it, I think they had about three or four spare men in that box.

3:26Well, this is it. So when you're saying they're the set-piece gods, of course they are. They absolutely love it. And why shouldn't they? So a part of me thinks, have they just tied Chelsea up in so many knots there early on in the game that they've panicked? And the fear factor of Arsenal and their brilliance has created that space. or have Chelsea just absolutely gifted the best set-piece team in the country a head start there? Oh, 100%. You absolutely can't give them that much time and space. You have to defend a certain way against them. They didn't do that. They went the opposite. They were a bit, you know, it was chaotic.

4:04It was chaotic at the back, all game from Chelsea. Rossini have rung the changes at centre-back. So he's trying to find out what works, what doesn't work, who works alongside each other, who doesn't work alongside each other. So there was a few, there was some experimenting going on there, I think, from Rossini. He wanted to win this game and he was taking it seriously. But look, the guy's only just coming to the job and he was figuring things out. It's not the ideal game facing Arsenal when you're working on the job. But yeah. He was figuring it out again with those changes, as you say. I mean, the thing for Chelsea was, look, I thought Arsenal, they were good value for their win.

4:41At one point, they should have gone 4-1. up really two great chances to do so so yeah okay they won the game blah blah blah but the Victor Jokorish goal I mean Robert Sanchez in that first goal for the corner he'd be disappointed and it's a gift for Jokorish a fair play Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank was saying no but he's you know strikers union and all that he was there he had to be there he was like a shark he was he was waiting to pounce okay fair enough but that goal was exactly what Jokorish needed he's he's not been scoring too many goals, as we know. His first goal from open play for a good while, actually, in 16 games for crying out loud.

5:21Penalties do count. I appreciate that, but I think that's, you know, I think that does paint a picture. But Robert Sanchez in goal, it's a bad error in a semi-final of a League Cup. It is. It's a bad error. It's two bad errors. It's your new boss as well. You want to impress him and he's got off on completely the wrong foot there, I think. Chelsea's got a couple of other goalkeepers it would not surprise me at all if Fresinia maybe looked to find him yeah yeah they have that got them scattered about all over Europe yeah I'll be really surprised if Fresinia sees his midfield and attack in training for the next couple of days because I think he's just going to be spending all the time with the defence and goalkeeper trying to figure out who works honestly I think that's his biggest issue right now it was a bit of a mess and Sanchez hasn't helped it there, especially when you've got a back line that is unfamiliar with each other.

6:14A lot of those players haven't played many games with each other and it's rotating mid-game. You need your goalkeeper and he is the number one at Chelsea. He is the undisputed number one. You need him to be solid. You need him to instill confidence into the back line and he did not do that. And moving forward now in the next few games, are the centre-backs going to be looking over their shoulders? Oh, what's Sanchez doing? Is he coming out? Is he staying? What's happening here? And it just soars that doubt in somebody's mind. And you don't need that when you've got a new manager already figuring things out.

6:46Well, it's the reason why for Man City, Pep Guardiola got Donnarumma in because the defence weren't sure of James Trafford. So I wonder, it'd be mad if they went out and signed another goalkeeper in January. I mean, is there anyone out there? It's Chelsea. Yeah, well, exactly. It's Chelsea. I think they're going to sign a goal. Look, I honestly think they're going to sign a goalkeeper and a centre-back in January. I really, really do. And it would not surprise me whatsoever. Yeah, true enough. But I'll tell you what, though. He made a phenomenal save from Mikel Marino, who I understand he's hit that well, and it is a phenomenal save at the end of the day.

7:24And Marino was great when he came on. I thought he played really well. But at the end of the day, David, he has a chance to blast the ball at goal. Okay, on the volley, you know, technique, blah, blah, blah. But it seems harsh because of what a stunning save it was. But that was a golden opportunity for 4-1 Arsenal. It was. You'd expect the best centre forward at the club to put the ball away. And then Gabriel misses one from the corner where he heads it down. You know, he does everything right. Just gets the angle slightly wrong. And that's the thing. Like when Arsenal go 3-1, you think it's going to be 4-1.

8:01And actually, do you know what? early on in the game, when Arsenal go one up, that opening kind of 15 minutes, they were pressing them well. Especially when Chelsea were trying to play out from the back. And I thought Arsenal could finish this in the first leg. So a victory away from home, it's a positive result. It's absolutely ridiculous. It'd be factually incorrect to say it's not a positive result. But they had chances and Robert Sanchez, my goodness, that was a stunning save he made. I understand he's already made the errors, but what a save it was. I don't want to get too bogged down, though, with what Arsenal could have, should have, would have.

8:44The fact is, though, they were pegged back by Alejandro Garnaccio, who came off the bench. And he's had, he's done all right in a Chelsea show. He certainly had moments and so on, but perhaps his end product has been lacking a little bit. We have to give him a bit of credit, David, for scoring two goals and essentially keeping Chelsea in the tie tonight. Yeah, definitely. Like I say, a lot of Chelsea fans have already seen just after the game, saying he was the only one who really showed something tonight, and he was the only one who seemed like he cared. He came off the bench and he used his minutes that he's been given really, really well.

9:15I imagine he'll be starting the next game or he'll definitely get some chances. Yeah, he's an interesting one, Garnaccio. He really is. That end product still really isn't there. You can't really feel that he's clicked fully as a player. Chelsea is also a very difficult environment. I think for an attacker to kind of settle into it. Again, lots of rotation, lots of bodies there. There's always a couple of players who are, you know, behind you or to the side of you who are looking to get that, you know, one of those three slots that they have. So, yeah, and it's all he can do is score goals. And like I say, he's probably one of the few Chelsea players who can come away with their heads held high at night, I think.

9:51Yeah. And how do you feel generally about kind of, you've talked about the defence and obviously the goalkeeper situation at Chelsea. You would think, looking at the team, midfield and on the wings, they're strong. They're lacking that maybe, you know, quality centre forward, you know, Guy was in there tonight. I think, you know, once the lap really gets going, you'd expect something from him. How do you feel, you know, Esteval was obviously playing. He did okay. Yeah, he did. How do you feel generally what they've got and what Liam Rosini's got to work with in the midfield and on the wings? Because they seem to have a fair few options.

10:28there's plenty of options there it's a case of what works best for him and his style and what he wants to play I think it's super early days absolutely, the most noticeable thing for me, biggest change from Maresca has been how Rosinha is very keen to play through the middle the full backs aren't really the ones who were initiating play and carrying the ball up the field it's very much going through the middle Enzo is getting a lot of touches, he's getting a lot of involvement there. And I can see why he's got a nice pass in range. He's got a good eye for a pass. I do just wonder whether it really works with Enzo in that double kind of pivot and whether they will push him on a little bit more advanced, kind of that eight type 10 hybrid that Odegaard plays for Arsenal.

11:16We saw him, we've seen him getting goals and getting on the end of stuff when he does go forward a bit more. It's what he did at Benfica. It's why they paid all that money for him. He played further up the field at Benfica, and he scored a lot of goals. He got a lot of assists. He's got a very good shot in him. And it makes sense for me to get him further towards the opposition goal rather than keeping him far away. And like I said, it's because he's got his attributes in that midfield department. I don't think they've got another midfielder who can really spray the ball and open up play like he does.

11:48So maybe that's why. And until that player comes in, then they will continue to use him there. but I still think he's better, again, in that eight, sort of ten hybrid, kind of like Odegaard does for Arsenal. He sits in centrally and drops in a little bit, but he does push on. Well, yeah, I was thinking about Declan Rice, actually, in that Rice playing a deeper role, and obviously they bring in Zubamendi, and I know they've had one or two others as well, because we've seen what Enzo Fernandes can do when he's further forward in the Chelsea show, and he's effective.

12:26But turn our attention to Arsenal What did you make of their performances? We've spoken about those missed chances And maybe they'll think They could have effectively put the tie to bed But lest we forget They're a goal to the good They're at home in the next leg And they are a better side than Chelsea Yeah, absolutely Look, I know they should have scored more And they will be disappointed by Chelsea scoring those goals but they're taking it back to the Emirates and they can easily get a clean sheet there and grind out a 1-0 or just not even grind one out just get a 1-0 and just see out that game relatively easily I honestly think they can do that they're that good and again Chelsea are in this situation where they are figuring so so much out and these games come very thick and fast so I'd be extremely confident despite not putting a lot of chances away if I'm an Arsenal fan I'd be very very confident for that second leg definitely.

13:22And what you said there about Chelsea figuring stuff out Arsenal have got, the only thing they're kind of still figuring out slightly is and Arteta said it a few times already this season although he might have not said it for a while was figuring out how to play with Victor Jokeres in the team, different times player that they've got up there. Well Jokeres himself he got a goal with assist and he was given man of the match. So a decent evening for him you have to say and that's a bit of a confidence booster. I know there's he's got to he'll want goal involvements is what we talk about and he'll certainly want more goals and get amongst it but it was better for him from him tonight I thought you know he's quite a powerful guy at times in the Premier League this season he's been pushed off it a little bit too much you think to yourself if you're not scoring a bit of nuisance value a bit of something and at times he's not done that you can see the confidence was low.

14:20He looked like he was purring a bit more tonight. He was alright. I think he was a little bit embarrassed by the goal. When I saw his celebration, he was a bit hesitant to do it, I noticed. He's not fully feeling it. He's not in full behind the mask mode yet. So yeah, he's... Look, he was... People say, oh, Giocares is making these runs and he's doing this and he's doing that. At the end of the day, Kai Avertz was doing that. Gabriel Jesus was doing that. Giocares was brought in to bang in 15 to 20 goals. And I won't hear anything else of it because that's exactly why he was brought in. They could have bought another striker if they wanted somebody to run about.

15:03And look, and I'll say this here as well, I don't think his movement is that good. And I completely agree with what you pointed out about him being lightweight for a big lad. I thought Cesco is exactly the same at Manning Ayrd. He's another one who's a big lad. doesn't use his body doesn't use his physical attributes well enough for me if you're a centre-back are you scared about going up against Giocares or Sesco or somebody like that no I don't think you are because they don't use their body they don't intimidate they don't give you a game they don't batter you about and you'd expect that from somebody of that size in Giocares do you feel it was generous that they gave him out of the match a bit of a joke do you want to sit here but yeah fair enough fair enough maybe Garnaccio Should have been given him out of the match.

15:47I know he didn't start the game. But yeah, well, look, I think I'm looking forward to the second leg of this one, I think, more than the other tie. Because the other tie really felt when Cherky scored late on, it was kind of done. Whereas this one, I think, even though Arsenal will be heavy favourites to go through to the final, I think Chelsea getting an early goal, I think, well, I mean, clearly it brings them back level. But I think that throws a bigger spanner in the works, not just for the scoreline, but just something about it rather than the other one. But I think if you're a neutral, you definitely want an early goal for the away sides in the next leg to make it a little bit interesting.

16:33Definitely. But look, this is, you know, with Arsenal effectively with one foot in the final, you would say, I think, It's a glorious opportunity for them. If it ends up as the smart money would suggest, a Man City Arsenal final. Again, if that is the case, that goes into the whole narrative of they're the top two this season and they're duking it out of the league and da-da-da-da. So it could be interesting. But anyway, I don't want to look into the future too much because Chelsea and Newcastle United, more so Chelsea, are still alive in the Carabao Cup. I mean, what I would say is Arteta, he did look pleased.

17:12when he went over to applaud the away fans. So obviously they'll take some satisfaction from tonight. As I say, it is a victory ultimately. So as I say, we shall see. David, can we turn our attention very quickly to another cup competition that happened or was happening in Europe tonight? It's the Copa del Rey. Real Madrid crashed out away at second tier Albacete. How about that? Yeah, that is incredible. Real Madrid have had a lot of mad weeks in their history and this has certainly been up there and for Abelor to come in and to lose in that manner in his first game, to be knocked out of the cup last 16 to little Alba Setter incredible, there's a little mantra in Spain of like Alba Setter why would anyone want to go there so basically people saying it's a bit of a shit hole I think they're 17th or around there.

18:09It's not like they're top of the second tier. And even if they were, but they are not. I think last season it was mid-table. And I understand that Real Madrid didn't play a first string, their best first string, but my goodness, this is rather amusing. It's very amusing. Look, Real Madrid could have put their third 11 out. It wouldn't matter. They needed to win this game. It was important. It's a matter of fact that they needed to win this game and it'll be full-blown crisis mode there now. The market offices right now, absolute scenes, trust me. Who do you think would... Do you think they're going to go for Zidane again?

18:51Or is he wanting the France job post-World Cup? I just think sometimes these big clubs just always have a couple of numbers at the top of their phone books. You remember when Chelsea just always used to have Hiddink at the top of their phone book any time there was a little bit of a problem? It's kind of like that. Or Bad United with Olig on a soul show. Yeah, there you go. They've clearly lost his number though. And so, yeah, I mean, Zidane's the one you go to. Look, and I mean, there's talk of Klopp as well, but come on, knowing Klopp's personality and just why he left Liverpool because of the kind of being exhausted at all.

19:22You do not go to Real Madrid if you, you know, it's just not Klopp's type of club. It just doesn't really fit. There's no way he's going there. Yeah, it doesn't fit for me. I think they might go for a bit of experience insist they can get it. I think they'll feel a bit tarnished probably by the young, hip model, you know, Javi Alonso trying to do some crazy new things and bring a few new ideas to Old Real Madrid. This will scar them a little bit and they'll want to go back to try and test it and somebody who can come in that dressing room. And as always, the most important thing is to give those egos a good stroke.

19:56Yeah, totally. Well, they're out the cup and they could finish the season without a trophy. But being Real Madrid, maybe they won't. Now, staying with cup competitions, David, I want to bring in a little bit of AFCON chat. We haven't mentioned AFCON too much on the football ramble this time round. But both semifinals were today. And Egypt are out. Salah's coming home. And so are the Fulham boys because, sad, I was torn about this. Nigeria have gone out to Morocco on penalties. And obviously Senegal will beat Egypt 1-0. one measly goal scored across both semifinals. Come on, lads. And this is the day the ramble decides to mention it.

20:44Oh, dearie me. We'll come to Senegal Egypt in a minute. But I'm kind of like, I'm not happy that Nigeria have gone out because I like to see, I love to see Bassey and Iwobi in particular. Chuck Waze as well, of course, who's joined Fulham on loan this season. But Bassi and Iwobi, I love the vibes. I love those two glorious men. They've been great. Yeah, and I wanted them to go on and win the competition. But the consolation for me personally as a Fulham fan is they're going to come home that little bit earlier. But I would have loved to see them play in the final. I think they've been decent in this competition.

21:22But Morocco, it's no mean feat beating them. No, no. Look, Nigeria have been good value. they've been very organised the entire tournament and I've quite enjoyed them while you're on about your Fulham boys Alex Iwobi's little video diaries they've been really good I hope he continues those at Fulham he should, he should, they're really good content I actually, yeah I've really enjoyed that but look, you're up against it when you face Morocco because of the home crowd and that atmosphere was when they were doing the national anthems Nigeria, you just couldn't even hear it over all the booing And yeah, so Nigeria are always up against it.

21:59And I think they only had one shot and target the entire game, whereas Morocco had five. So they were up against it. Yeah, it was a tough one for them to get through. And they've done really well, I think. Yeah, very little to separate them. And then, of course, Senegal, who seemed to always play Egypt in the African Cup of Nations, obviously two of the best sides, or have been in the last few tournaments. Just the one goal, my goodness. It was a slog watching this, wasn't it? It wasn't the prettiest game of football. Lovely goal to win it from that man, Sadio Mane, though. Exactly. And everybody got their narrative with Mane and Salah.

22:34So there we go. So I'm sure everybody's happy with that. But yeah, Senegal are a good side. I know we've said about Morocco being a home side, but Senegal are just so well organised. And I said to you before we came on here, they have a feel of like a Champions League sort of quarterfinal, semi-final side about them. They're very organised, very well-drilled, very composed. as well. They're going to be a hard one for Morocco to break down. And that's going to be a good final. I think we might actually get goals in that final rather than the semis. Well, I sincerely hope so, because my goodness, yeah, we were starved of them in the semis.

23:08But yeah, I mean, look, Senegal, they beat Thomas Tuchel's England. And if you can beat Thomas Tuchel's England, then my goodness, you deserve everything you get. So yeah, they're on the march. An intriguing final. I think at the start of the tournament, I thought, yeah, Senegal looked tasty. Some of the players they've got, Morocco as well with a home advantage. So I don't think this is a huge surprise that both sides have reached the final. Nigeria were the ones really that could have thrown a spanner in those works, but they didn't. And I should say as well that Samuel Chukwese was one of the players to miss one of the penalties.

23:44So get yourself back down to West London, Samuel. You're going to be warmly received here and it'll be good to have you back. Although, Fulham have been doing pretty well without them. So will they get back in the side? Who needs them? Right, thank you very much for joining us, everybody. We're back on Friday for the preview show. So get your ears around that lot. Until then, thank you very much, David. Thank you, my man. Thank you very much, Sadio Mane.

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