So, it’s all Marc Cucurella’s fault?

0:00Hey, I got a message and tonight I'm going to send it everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble. Liverpool were better, but Chelsea were poorer. It's Wednesday, 10th of December. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Tim Campbell. And I'm David Carledge.

0:24Hello, everybody. It's Wednesday. And what a wonderful Wednesday it is. We're right in the thick of the Champions League action, gentlemen. But before we talk about that, I want to say thanks to friend of the Ramble, Anthony Riga. for giving us that intro line. If you want to submit an intro line for a future episode, become a friend of the Ramble on our Patreon. You can do that for just five bucks a month. You'll also get an extended edition of today's Ramble. Head to patreon.com forward slash football Ramble to get involved. And you should do. Anthony actually went to my school. Well, I never.

0:55The school no longer exists. It's an academy now owned by the guy who also owns Carpet Right, which runs that town. It's a weird town. Oh. but we all escaped and see and I did he pull the rug out of the feet of the town but he sort of put it in there didn't he a little bit of both as I understand it a little bit of both took out one and replaced it with one of his own oh what a bugger well if you want to hear more about that or some other exciting things then do head to our Patreon to sign up and get Round of Blood cut every single Wednesday now then let's talk about Inter 0 Liverpool 1 they can do it without that little so and so Mo Salah David who's he I've already forgotten yeah yeah this was a good performance honestly this was a really strong performance from Liverpool probably should have had a few more into a really really poor I thought pretty negative but not take anything away from Liverpool definitely deserved the win bit unsure about the penalty like but you know they deserved to win yeah I mean it was a collective performance Jim and that collective obviously we talk about some of the comments made about Salah after the game like Van Dijk saying you know we're good friends and so on and so forth.

2:03There seemed to be a grit and determination about that Liverpool side which surely Aris Slott was instilling in them going we cannot lose this game for crying out loud. I mean Jamie Carragher he tweeted out when Sky Sports put out a photo wasn't it of him in the gym that he posted back at the club because he didn't go and Carragher said I don't think I've wanted Liverpool to win a match ever so much in all my life and I was like whoa there's a lot of heat there's a lot of I think Slott might have pinned that up on the dressing room well maybe He turned it out beforehand and said, lads, there you go.

2:34No team talk, just that. If anybody loses, you're going to be working out next to him. But as David said, it was a very good performance and a solid one from Liverpool. It was a very difficult place to go. Well, I think Inter have this habit, unless they're, you know, in the last Champions League final, because they looked a lot more like the team, I thought, that we saw last season that were very difficult to break down. They make goals look really hard, like for or against. like that Inter at the San Siro is like it is such a sort of difficult nut to crack and I thought Liverpool did a really good job of being persistent with that they had the better of the chances but they weren't amazing chances were they but they certainly had kind of more of the more of the kind of attacking impetus than Inter did and I think the goal they had ruled out was nonsense as well I think like the penalty is absolutely soft but it's one of those ones where it's like well I think they should have had a goal earlier so fair enough I thought exactly the same and Knives definitely should have there's just Van Dijk heads the ball doesn't he onto Eketike's arm but they are so close together that there's nothing he can do about it it's not deliberate it's I think to rule a goal out for that especially because it's not Eketike that scores is just daft I agree with you by the way but it wasn't a game full of loads of chances was it but I think that makes it all the more impressive I think this is actually a sort of quite workman-like kind of gritty win where all of the drama has been left off of the pitch required a lot of focus considering a lot of different factors a lot of things going on off the pitch they had a lot of mental focus on that game totally and they completely managed that perfectly and they'd only conceded three goals in the Champions League before this so if you're going to beat them there it has to be with a performance like this and I thought they just got it spot on and I thought actually before he came off Izek had some good touches as well was kind of involved a little bit more I think Florian Wurz was good when he came on as well again in a not necessarily in the most eye-catching way but he was pretty effective was very impressed with Curtis Jones as well I thought yeah there is a lot to take away from this for Liverpool that's really positive I wonder if it feels like a bit of a holiday from the drama of the Premier League maybe as well because they're so comfortable in Europe and they always feel like they belong on this stage right they're never overruled by the sort of games I'm a duty bound to remind you of the PSV result sure sure yeah when you say they're comfortable absolutely fair enough but generally they've been alright in the Champions League this season as their 8th position would say although I mean they have lost a couple of games though but I mean yeah I echo your thoughts gentlemen I watched that game and I thought yeah this is a performance in the Champions League which we could have seen from Liverpool last season for example obviously without the obvious Mo Salah but just again solid is the kind of I mean when Liverpool especially in that second half I just thought there's going to be one winner here and obviously they got the penalty which you've already said was not a penalty in your eyes I mean Alan Shearer said in commentary no sorry it was Mark Clattenberg actually who said it he said the referee's now going to see it in slow motion which makes it look worse now clearly the referee also saw it in real time as well on the screen as he did in the actual play in front of his very eyes but it is a shirt pull it's not enough to bring I'd be surprised if there's too many people thinking it was a penalty Clattenberg also said funnily enough I think just before he said that he goes oh football people will say that's not a penalty but the VAR will say it is and he goes that's where we are we're re-refereeing now I am sort of confused by this idea that referees are so easily tricked by slow motion do you know what I mean like we all are aware that things look different in slow motion they surely are as well it's not an optic illusion no exactly do you know what I mean if you slow it down though yeah but that's not but look they're still the same people isn't it it's like a dinosaur if you don't move they can't see you I mean but I thought actually Klatenberg's comments were quite interesting because, as David said, he immediately said, look, I don't think it's a penalty, most people won't think it's a penalty, but this will be given as a penalty.

6:28And he explained why. And he was dead right. And we've often been quite critical of Klattenberg for obvious reasons. But I thought that what he said, he brought immediate insight into that. And as I say, he was spot on. And when you look at it, you think, and this is the problem with VAR. I'm having this age-old debate now. And it is age-old, even though we've only had VAR for a handful of years. There are the laws and the spirit of the laws. And you're just never going to match the two up really, are you? I mean, do you think VAR is actually pulled to the floor by the force on his shirt there?

7:01Well, I get the fact, and this is the thing, this is the minutia of the game. He is somewhat impeded. But you're arguing how much is he impeded. And that's what you're saying. And some people say, oh, but there's such... So when an athlete, football is going at speed, sometimes it just takes a little touch and they're knocked off kilter. You say, well, they're such highly strong. Actually, you know, all that kind of stuff. And you think actually just the slightest touch was enough to put that player off and they didn't get where they're going. So therefore, I think it's a foul or a penalty or whatever.

7:30Whereas this, you're kind of looking at it going, come on. Yeah. And I think that that's basically, you can whittle down the argument that Clattenburg's saying about football people and whatnot to simply two words with this tone, come on. That's what you're doing. Yeah, maybe every manager once again gets to go, come on. That's the review process. He's used his come on. But again, for very different reasons, or for something totally quite different, but if I may, when Fulham played Palace at the weekend, and I think it was Samuel Chuck Wasey who was adjudged to be quite literally a half a big toe offside when he sent it for Emile Smith-Rowe or Emile Smith-Rowe ends up scoring.

8:13And I'm like, yeah, the lawmakers of the game will be turning in their graves, you know. but you've got to draw the line somewhere with that. And again, with these decisions, you can't draw a line. You have to sort of say, was that enough to put him off? And when you get into all that, like, because it is a clear shirt pull. Yeah. And that's the problem. The defender, what the defender is doing there is almost trying to play the percentages going, I'm going to give him a little tag, but not too much. And that, and when you get into that territory, the, this day and age with VAR, you're, you're in danger.

8:43And so you have to drill defenders. No, you can't even do that because it was a bit of a silly, thing that the defender did. It was silly. I'm not denying that. I just think the contact was very, very exaggerated. I don't get it. You're looking at that slow-mo, right? And you can't see that somebody is flipping their body to exaggerate. I don't understand that. They're clearly not looking for that. They are looking at the shirt pull. They're not looking at the other action involved. And that's my issue. I think they're very tunnel vision when it comes to certain things when it comes to that. Well, the penalty was given and Dominic Sabozalai dispatched it.

9:15When Jan Sommer gave him a little bit more room on that side and I remember thinking probably don't want to do that with Sir Bosley he's one of those players where you think he'd score this ten times in a row thank you not just the form he's in but the sort of poise he has as a player as well I just like knew that he was going to score that yeah the noise the ball made as it hit the back of that was tart yeah obviously he hit some ball really well I get what someone was trying to do and keep his do that and obviously he dives the right way but yeah Sir Bosley was not to be denied and look it was it was a great I suppose people would think that justice was done because you've already mentioned about the Liverpool goal that was chalked off which again I can't imagine there's too many people would think that was fairly and justly chalked off indeed feel for Canate there because that would be the headline wouldn't it yeah but I mean look he's a part of the Liverpool side that kept a clean sheet and a good performance and they were restricted weren't they I mean Martinez had a header towards the end of the second half which Alisson he was pretty isolated but he was yeah yeah but like Inter's in a bit of a transition themselves anyway well yes you know they're on a big change from losing Nzaghi losing a lot of key players as well and bringing in younger players.

10:20They're moving on a little bit. Yeah, but that was only the second game they lost. They've won four out of five. But I take the point totally. But to win it at Inter, rather, is always a decent result, particularly with the circumstances Liverpool found themselves in and the position they are at the moment and the moment they're in, as we say now, in football. And post-match, there was a lot of talk about Mo Salah, of course. I did quite like Clarence Seedhoff doing Gabby Logan's job for her at times, even though you could see her going, okay, fine, Clarence. I'm not going to try and break up two Dutchmen speaking here when Slott was on because that's like...

10:57Can we just give Clarence his own chat shot? Yeah, yeah. I want to hear from him on just everything he thinks. But what I love though, Jim, he was properly like with Arnie Slott. I was like, I know you're going to pardon me off here, but you've got to understand I'm asking the question here. And he was really kind of having a go. But Van Dyke, when he was talking to the TNT, broadcasters said about Salah we're good friends we've been through highs and lows we speak and those types of things we'll stay indoors as it should be perhaps Mo could have taken a leave out of that book but we have to brace ourselves and be against the outside noise well he's done a lot with that statement there though hasn't he?

11:31because he is quite rightly he's been relatively supportive of Mo Salah talking about their friendship but he's also very subtly said that you know this is not how this should be and also you know kept it in house and moved it on from being his responsibility which it's not I think he's spoken really well there I think he does as well and Van Dyke this is what we've come to know of him of course over the many many years I mean he is your archetypal whether it's old fashioned new fashioned captain he's the guy really isn't he he's calm he's cool he's a leader he talks how he plays yeah you know that sort of thing it transmits there so this was the perfect kind of tonic to end what has kind of gone on this week I mean don't get me wrong it's still going to rumble on every single Liverpool team sheet is going to be scrutinized.

12:16But this was, I think, a good juncture in a really mad week for Liverpool. Yeah. The picture that Salah posted is just amazing to me. Just absolutely amazing. Yeah, working out in the gym on his own because there was a caption underneath it as well. It was a very sort of, you know, you okay, hon? And I love, he's had some time to think about this and he's decided, on reflection, I was absolutely right. I'm going to stick to my guns drama be damned incredible but you don't think I mean the response he's had is pretty much where I've seen it is like 95 % of people again it's just from what I've seen are very much not in favour of of what he said and certainly how he said it and the whole thing the way he went about it it depends on on you know what he's seeing isn't it he might be surrounded by people saying yeah you're doing the right thing here because there are I've seen lots of people saying oh they shouldn't treat a legend like this etc etc you can find people who are taking his side sure and it tends to be people who kind of you know these mad people you get online now who like support a footballer yes like more than a team it's the online fan wanting to like you know exaggerate their fandom yeah yeah they don't they this is i'm glad you brought this up because like it seems to be a lot of people who say who don't go to games who live in different countries and they want to really exaggerate their fandom and prove how much of a big fan they are against the person who lives in Liverpool or the person who lives in London or wherever it may be.

13:48So you do get that now, I think, that discourse. Yeah, well, look, whatever the percentages are. I mean, I think, yeah, most broadcast and commentators, I would say, would sort of say, you know, that was a bit of a silly thing to do. You know, Thierry Henry being an obvious one as well and so on and so forth. Even little Michael Owen got involved. But I... Went well for him, didn't it? but I wonder with Salah, when you've gone out and done that, it's very, very difficult to immediately row back from it. And so it doesn't surprise me that he's kind of doubled down on that. And he's soon off to AFCON as well, which, you know, you mentioned Champions League being a holiday for Liverpool.

14:23Just wait for the interviews with the Egyptian media to come through. I can just see that. I mean, one thing that I thought Carragher actually, there was a couple of things Carragher said about Salah. He said he was the guy who was known, who failed at Chelsea. I thought that was really unnecessary because he did really well at Roma, hence Liverpool signed him. And also he said, you know, he hadn't really done anything with Egypt, which again, I disagree with it. Yes, they'd not won AFCON under him. They'd reached finals, but also qualifying for the World Cup. And, you know, he's a legend in Egypt.

14:56He's the finest player they've ever produced. And he's done that without winning a trophy, of course, but he's done it for the Egyptian national side. So it's those little things that I think, David, when it comes to AFCON, I think the Egyptian media are very much waiting to perhaps respond to that. But we'll see. And if they were to respond to that, I think that's a very fair comment. But with Salah himself, the chat now is, have we seen him for the final time in a Liverpool shirt? Do we think it's repairable? Is he going to come back at all? I think if the AFCON wasn't on, you think he will surely die again but because of that it gives it time and that finishes that tournament you'd imagine Egypt will go deep but even if they don't that finishes when the general transfer window is open so I mean Jim what are your thoughts on that it's well obviously I can't predict the future so I don't know but if you look at a lot of the kind of reaction to Salah being dropped from the team there's a really interesting article by Adam Bate about the kind of underlying numbers of Salah's defensive contribution and how essentially through a lot of his time at Liverpool because he's such a sort of devastating attacking force he's been kind of freed of the responsibility of doing sort of the tracking back and the defensive stuff and that's worked really well for them but because now his output on that is kind of a lot lower it's actually doing quite a lot of damage to the team essentially in terms of it's like this gaping hole there where if you want to get at Liverpool just get it out there and you've got free reign to kind of build your attacks So I wonder if actually Liverpool might look at this and go, we don't know if that's ever going to improve again.

16:37If he's now 33 and this is actually a true reflection of what his kind of ability is, it's not going to be what it's been in the past. Maybe it's a good time to move on. They could get a decent fee for him if they sell him to the Saudi Pro League, which is probably the most likely destination. So I actually think from Liverpool's point of view, the more this goes on the more that the idea of selling him will become attractive and you've got a ready-made potential replacement in Antoine Semenya who there's been a lot of noise about how he's kind of ready to move on in this next window in particular so it might actually be the best thing for Liverpool to move him on I would 100 % sell him by all means don't get low-balled you know say to the Saudis look you came with this offer before they may have a He's going to enhance his reputation.

17:26They may have a stronger bargaining chip. He's still the same player. He's very fresh. He hasn't been playing recently. So yeah, you can say that. Look, just give us a little bit less. You don't need to low ball us. But I would definitely cut the losses for the reasons that Jim has just said there. I think you have to. And look at how many of these, if you look at football across the years, how many of these public fallouts have resulted in reconciliation? Very few. Very, very few. Especially on this scale. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So there might be only one way to go for everyone involved. I think a parting helps everyone.

17:58Yeah, it would be a great shame. It would, but I think that's in motion now, isn't it? I mean, I think, yeah. I wouldn't get too sad about it. I mean, I certainly won't be. But from a new, just looking sort of in, I would look at that and think that is a shame if indeed that's how it ends. I think Luke and I had a gentleman's, didn't we? I thought he was going to move in the summer. Yeah. I really, really did. And obviously he signs that massive contract. which in hindsight now seems quite incredible. That was the player power in action, I think. I suppose it was player power in action. Then I think...

18:34The club is in a difficult place there because the club's thinking, this guy's just put in such a sensationally good season, which has been one of the big reasons why Liverpool won the league at Acanta. His contract has run out. And obviously you had the situations with Van Dijk and Alexander-Arnold. Alexander-Arnold's already gone. He's already been going, really, isn't he? They knew that really. So you're thinking, well, we're going to lose three players. Salah does that last season, as we all know, which was incredible. What do they do? Let him go for a free. Everyone will be up in arms thinking, how can you do that?

19:05But of course, Salah, as you say, with the player power, I think that he was pushing for something absolutely almighty in terms of what his wages were, despite his age, despite where he is in his career. And so the club have gone, right, okay, we're going to do that. but I the thing is for the club that still costs a lot of money so you say okay you don't get the selling fee but 400 grand away is an absolutely extraordinary amount of money I know the Premier League has got riches and Liverpool aren't exactly hard up but anyway all that aside Saudi were the only other suitors I wouldn't be surprised if he was holding out for another a big club say Real Madrid or something like that even though it seems I think it's Saudi I think Saudi he's on his channel I don't know I do but I'm saying that before he signed for Liverpool I think he was very much open for offers for the absolute elite level.

19:51And I don't think they were there then. No, I don't think they were either then. I think Saudi was literally... I genuinely thought him and Bruno were both gone in the summer. I really did. I really did. And I thought that, yeah, so it came down to it really. You either stay and see what you can do contract-wise and see if you can blow everybody out of the water wage-wise, which is what happened, or you go to Saudi. And now I think that his... Yeah, he'll be limited where we go. We think it'll only be Saudi because who's going to pay an enormous fee? And the funny thing is, though, with Salah, when he came out and said all that stuff after the Leeds United game, he kind of, there was already talk about his defensive contributions and all that kind of stuff.

20:27But he really did lift the lid inadvertently on all of this stuff to the point of, the three of us are now going, yeah, they should probably sell him. Which seems extraordinary compared to, only a few months ago, a handful of months ago last season, you'd be thinking, they've got to tie him down to a contract. And so his actions now, I think have really lifted up the hood and everyone's like oh actually Carragher's response to the thrown under the bus line especially and when he goes thrown under the bus you've thrown Liverpool right back so under the bus for 12 he's really getting stuck in I mean I thought Carragher again I sort of agreed and it's very difficult to very concisely you know give all your thoughts on live television about that situation when Carragher will have more information than us he's obviously a club legend and a Liverpool fan so very difficult so I understand that and I thought by and large he got it right but there were a few lines like that he naturally wound himself up he got very emotional but I think by and large like you said I thought it was very on point where he said because the thing is he's not just responding to the questions from David Jones he's responding to everybody on X essentially he's trying to sort of fit it all into that response and one thing I think is really interesting about the stuff you're talking about Marcus with the kind of underlying numbers and the focus that Salah's own kind of actions have put onto that is that that really started after Chelsea beat Liverpool and Mark Kukureya pointed out that Salah doesn't really track back much.

21:53He's such a serious, yeah. It all comes from him. He is a proper agent of chaos. He's brilliant. First name on the team sheet and shithouse 11. Oh, he's your type of man, David. I love him. I adore him. God, yeah. Despite what he did against England in the Euros that time. But there we are. Yeah, you live by the shithouse, you die by the shithouse. As the old expression goes. Well, gentlemen, I'm very much looking forward to AFCON I'm now looking forward to it for off-pitch stuff particularly Egyptian media coverage of it I know that's going to be absolutely fascinating the more the merrier so yeah very much looking forward to that Saddegana aren't there though yeah that's the big story here so easy for Semenyo to look around the house what I was about to say Liverpool you've got a player who's not good anywhere there we'll be going to the World Cup though as we know they're an England's group right let's take a break and then we'll come back with Marco Correa's Chelsea.

22:56Have I ever criticised Mo Salah on the pitch? Well, a couple of weeks ago you said his legs had gone. No, I don't grasp that as that's something that happens to every player. Welcome back to the football ramble, everybody. That was a highlight of that chat. Didn't he sit up Oh, Casemiro as well. It's Casemiro going to have a response to Casemiro as well. Yeah, quite possibly. Didn't you say his legs are gone? No, no, no. That other bloke looks like me. Atalanta 2, Chelsea 1. Chelsea lost for a second time in this season's Champions League. They haven't won away in this season's competition. Poor result for them, David.

23:33I fancy them to do something, but Adam Ola-Lukman and the boys had other ideas. And Saad Kolasinac. Saad Kolasinac is Atalanta, to give them their full title. That some people may refer to them as. but I think about 95 % of people I know would say Adam Ola Lickman's Atalanta but anyway, enough of the bollocks David Chelsea, disappointing result for them very disappointing this isn't the wheeling, dealing, high-flying Gasparini Atalanta yeah you know, they've very much been gutted on all levels so this was really poor from Chelsea but listeners to the show will be aware that I've said I think there's a bit of a downturn in results coming from them and has been the last couple of games and judging by Maresca's comments after this as well they're struggling with this amount of games that they're facing right now it's kind of like well you've got a big squad you've got some players who are fresh there I thought his changes were really poor a couple of weeks ago Esteval was the flair of the moment the one to watch everywhere and he ends up sitting on the bench when you're needing a goal yeah there's a few issues there there's a few problems there I think and there's going to be more and like I said I'll reiterate again I think they're going to have a tough Christmas period Mureska said we are playing every two days and we probably look like we struggle a bit two points in four games is not what we expect and we have to do better these little kind of runs have been a kind of facet of Mureska's tenure at Chelsea so far they look like they're really building up ahead of steam you think well this is a really good team you think they're going to be favourites going into every game and then they have a little run like this it's confusing really yeah there is that sort of frustrating inconsistency about them when they put in those performances, as we mentioned about Arsenal and Barcelona.

25:16I just wonder if, yeah, that takes a lot out of them. And as Mareska is saying, you know, struggling to play every two days. And then to get into that rhythm, because they're very intense games and they did a really good job. We know that one or two players have had injury struggles, so they're kind of a bit wary of that. He's rotating a lot. But clearly, some of the players that he's bringing in, because you mentioned those changes, he thinks that that disrupts the side too much. Compare them to another team. Whether you could start cherry-pipers, say, with Arsenal, you think about one or two players who come in don't always start, like, say, Trossard or even Eberici-Essi.

25:58These players, they come in and the idea is, right, you come in and you do the job and you're in the rhythm and flow of what's already going on. and I think that sometimes these changes, they do disrupt it a little bit because you mentioned Esteve, I was on the bench there. And I mean, I thought,

26:20they're not up to speed is what I'm labouring to say here. They're just not on that level yet where they can rotate and then continue to challenge on all fronts. It's funny how they become kind of underpinned by smaller teams as well. So they raise their game against the bigger teams, I think. From a system point of view, I think it very much works in the big games against the big teams. but the smaller teams do not have such enterprise about them that they'll give Chelsea all that space that they require to break on you and such they'll have you to sit in and soak up and counter on you whereas the bigger teams will still will want to win the game so Barcelona went to win the game Arsenal went to win the game so it allows Chelsea in smaller teams are not doing that for Chelsea well João Pedro said Chelsea need to learn from the game and perhaps he's tapping into what you're saying there David because it does it does appear that is the case Cole Palmer was left in London then as a part of his recovery from injury, and you think, blimey, you don't want this to go on much longer.

27:13I know they've got a lot of options, but for crying out loud, I do miss him. He's a big difference maker, isn't he? Yeah, they've got a lot of options, but how many do you trust? Do you really trust Mark Gray coming in? I don't know. Do you trust Gittins coming in regularly? I don't know. There's a few players there that come in and out of the side. I'm kind of like, I don't know if I trust you. And then they, yeah, it's a tough one for them. Do you still feel the forward position for Chelsea is that, I mean, Liam De Laque was obviously signed. more as not as obviously the finished article but more as you know they've got the potential there he's been blighted with injuries and I'm surprised Chelsea you know obviously they sold Jackson didn't they or he went on loan to Bayern I I really thought that they would try and plug that gap a little bit more I thought they'd sign a top level striker considering who was available and you look at everybody else around them I mean City already have one of course Arsenal went and got one Manning Aitard went and got one or at least they tried to get one so I'm surprised they didn't like I said I don't think he's very good enough he should be out on loan somewhere I don't really rate De Laff to be honest with you I think he's a West Ham striker or a Fulham striker thank you I can't see him I mean yeah I generally would say Fulham should try and get him actually I mean I think he'd do brilliantly there but I just think that's his level and then João Pedro I've said before but he's the most purple patch striker there he'll get 5 and 7 and then disappear for the next 8 and in a top club you can't rely on that they need a big big strike stunned they did not go for Osman that was exactly what I was going to say people always say Osman's wages are unrealistic but he's actually he's not on crazy money at Galatasaray but he's he's on money commensurate with what a lot of top Premier League strikers and it's absolutely crazy to me I really like the lap but you know so far he's not he's not shown that he's and obviously this is slightly unfair because he's been injured so much but it's been a difficult time for him I think he's got quite a high level obviously Osman's a different kind of striker entirely.

29:06You can call him an oven-ready striker. Yeah, sure. He's an oven-ready striker. Could have even brought John Durant back. I loved John Durant. Yeah, that would have been a great fit. They need somebody to just have a smash. He loves a smash. He does. Yeah, you want your 25 yarders? Get that man in there. Absolutely. They did sign Alejandro Garnacho, of course. They did. From Manchester United. He was asked before the match whether he had any regrets or was sad about the way things ended at Manchester United. And to both of those questions, he said no. with a little smirk and then had a little chuckle which I do kind of like I don't think United have any regrets about losing him either it's a little bit of a rat really isn't it I think it was I think it was all finally moved on I mean he looked a little bit lively I think there's more to come from him in a Chelsea shirt I don't think we've seen the best of Garnett for Chelsea yet I think that's a fair comment Jim let's move on to Spurs 3 Slavia Prague 0 Tottenham eased past Slavia Prague to get back to winning ways in the Champions League Xavi Simons and Mohamed Koudis were excellent among the goals as well both scored pens an own goal and two penalties just keep it tight lads when the underdog's here just don't do anything oh for fuck the own goal is like a striker would be proud of that down the right end yes I think so yeah oh yeah that's proper poacher stuff yeah yeah that was unfortunate I mean the I thought which penalty was it the first Spurs penalty where the ball it was was it Porro who was going out of play he crossed it and the defenders were going to have taken him out and you think such a needless one there.

30:33I mean, even the Xavi Simons, I suppose, he did 2-0 down with just over 10 minutes. Yeah, it was really clumsy. But it was clumsy and again, Slavia Prague, you wonder what they could have done. I mean, I think Spurs would have been good for anyone. Spurs were all over them. They were good for that win by that scoreline as well. Kiefer made an amazing save early on from a chance and he should have scored. He should have shouldered it away. But yeah, I think that was the sort of, I'd say performance despite the goals being kind of handed to them, you might argue. But that's the kind of performance into supply I think Spurs needed in the Champions League because they did alright against PSG but PSG are PSG right so they were always going to outscore them essentially David but for Spurs to be teetering on that top 8 they're in 9th of course a point off it I think not too shabby no this was a really good result and excellent for them in their situation as well and Simmonds look Simmonds I think he's a really nice player I really really really Lovely goal against Brentford.

31:29Yeah, and a great assist for him as well. But that goal against Brentford, though, you saw, it was almost as if when he went into that tackle, he was like, right, I've got to get up. Yes, exactly. And I'm taking this by the scruff of the neck. And he drives forward, finishes well, and he's got another one. If it clicks, they've got a very, very good player there. He's just a bit of an oddity in terms of his position as well. I still don't think anyone's ever figured that out. I mean, he's not exactly 17 or 18. So there's still people not figured out what position he's best in. But where would you have him?

31:59I really like him left, centre, midfield. Just advanced. Right. Kind of like between an 8 and a 10. But even that, me saying that... Sort of vertsy. Yeah, vertsy. Yeah, because he's got a lovely dribbling ability as well. So he's somebody who can pick the ball up deep and drive the team on and Tottenham desperately need that type of player. Well, Luke said that so many times and they need a ball carrier and he said they still miss James Madison. I think he's a victim of, or certainly in his early days at Tottenham, we've seen quite a few players kind of, you know, struggling a little bit with this, of the pace of the Premier League seeming to just go massively up.

32:34We were talking about the other day, Michael Cox wrote a piece about the five subs rule having upped the kind of pace of the game and generally across the board, the Premier League is faster than it's ever been in terms of how much and how fast people sprint. And I think actually it's giving less space for playmakers, for people with the exact skill set of Javi Simmonds. It's not a playmaker's world at all. So a lot of those players are having to kind of do more quicker. And I think the period of adjustment for players like that for the league is probably taking a bit longer than you might otherwise expect.

33:05But I agree. I think he's a brilliant player. Yes, there's more to come from him. I think it's good as well with Kudus, you know, putting in a performance like that. So we know he's got, he started very well at Spurs. But I mean, it could have been a combination of what you're saying, but also the tactics as well that Frank was deploying. I mean, you know, you panned him, particularly David, after that Arsenal game, of course. but sometimes a bit too negative and it's kind of like you have to be more on the front foot particularly when you're playing a side who just don't have the resources don't have the players of you in Europe now again they had a couple of early ones in the Champions League where what was their opening game was it Villarreal they played in their first game and they won 1-0 and it was kind of like okay you're back in the Champions League I appreciate that Thomas Frank doesn't have much experience as a manager playing in or applying his trade in European football particularly the Champions League but you've got to do a little bit more So you kind of, you know, you let those ones go earlier in the season.

33:56But this game was one of those ones where like, you have to win and you have to win convincingly. And they did. So nice little sort of run of results, if you like, for Spurs. Certainly back-to-back wins anyway at home. Which is massive. Yes, indeed. And it was nice that Son Heung-min was there to address the Tottenham fans with a speech before the game, which may well have spurred them on. There was a bit of controversy before the game. Tottenham had to move a pride flag away from the away section after a request from Slavia Prague on safety grounds because Slavia believed there was a risk some of their fans would have damaged the flag.

34:31So proud lilywhites, of course, the LGBTQI plus supporters group at Tottenham said, let's be honest about what this means. The risk here isn't the flag, it's the reaction of a small number of opposition supporters. That's disappointing and it's another reminder of the hostility LGBTQI plus fans still face across European football. Yeah, I mean, the protocol is that if the away team brings something up like that, then you essentially, you kind of have to act on it, I believe. So proudly, the whites have also made it clear that the club have handled that absolutely appropriately and they were apparently transparent about it throughout.

35:07They said they pushed back where they could and made sure this sits firmly as a request from the visiting club rather than a decision rooted in Spurs' own values. I think it's important to point out the Spurs have followed the protocol there and there's no criticism from them. It's just a shame, isn't it? Because they've got two options there, which is leave it where it is and I suppose let them make fools of themselves potentially, but at the same time you then invite a kind of hateful thing to happen in your home ground. It's just a sad reflection of where we are. All a bit of a shame. All right, coming up after this, Craig Bellamy goes to war with Jesse Marsh.

35:57Gentlemen, today in the Champions League, Real Madrid host Manchester City. Again. How about that? These two love playing each other in this competition. It's the 11th meeting in seven seasons, apparently. I'm not sure they do love it. Both teams are like, are you serious? Again. Well, it's nice for Pep to go home to his native country, of course. There are reports that Xabi Alonso's job is under threat, and quite severely so. Some suggesting, David, that if Real Madrid were to lose this game, he could go, which, again, seems absolutely mad. And then you go, oh, it's Real Madrid, of course. There's the asterisks there, always next Real Madrid's game.

36:37Yeah, this has really been blown all out of proportion. and there's various rumours and factors and such coming down. But bottom line is the players don't really... It's a group of players, I should say, not all the players. There's a few different cliques in the Real Madrid dressing room at the moment. A few splinter WhatsApp groups and such. I can just imagine. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, some of them are apparently not happy with the tactics and the level of detail that Xabi Alonso goes into in his training sessions. Yeah, so let's be clear. It's way too much detail and way too many tactics. Basically, yeah.

37:16We're not going to press as a unit, Xabi. Yeah. The gall of the manager to try and coach tactics. I mean, it's absolutely outrageous. I'm astonished that as a professional footballer at the top level, you've got yourself to Real Madrid. I can't believe they don't want to learn more. Do you know what I mean? that they don't want to be a sponge for all of the tactical information that you can get. I suppose perhaps there's too much, so it's not sinking in, but I'm really, really surprised that they don't want to kind of knuckle down and do that. I don't know why I'm surprised, because it's Real Madrid, and it seems the stereotypes about the club are kind of very much at play here.

37:50But I watched the highlights of the game against Celta Vigo the weekend. The first goal they conceded to a man called Williott Swedberg. It's brilliant. There were seven Real Madrid players in the box, and there's no one near him and he's got time for this deft little flick. The lack of intensity. Complete lack of intensity. They get two players sent off. One for descent, which is always enjoyable. Very, very avoidable. Xabi Alonso is absolutely furious. And then Swedberg kind of takes the ball around Courtois and literally walks it into the net for the second one. It was such a mistake. The lack of intensity is the problem there.

38:28Celta Vigo should not be doing that to you. Not at the Bernabeu. not even with kind of nine men it's absolutely mad Eda Militao got injured as well so he'll be out for another four months he's like a really really important player for a quite kind of unstable defence for them this is a chance for City to have a good time Trent's injured as well not to have the best of time since he's been there but still he's a defender Mbappe could be out as well I think he's going to be a game time decision sort of thing well I mean it is I mean Xavi Lund's obviously incredibly highly rated for what he did at Bayer Leverkusen but like and it started all right under Real Madrid they were what a handful of points clear but Barcelona not that long ago now they are four points behind them admittedly yeah it's still relatively fine but like I say it's Real Madrid it's a circus everything gets blown out of proportion in such an unbelievable manner but what Jim's saying there it does surprise me that at that level you're kind of thinking surely you need some more tactics but once you get to Real Madrid you've got those superstars they want someone to just massage their egos and tell them go out and express themselves I mean Vinicius Junior did a thing not too dissimilar to Mo Salah a little while ago and it's barely a story because it's Real Madrid.

39:32Do you know what I mean? Well, it sounds like the perfect club for most, really. But there we are. But what I find interesting, though, is when you say about the sort of tactics and why don't these players want to learn more and so on, this is Florentino Perez's club. That's why. It comes from the very, very top, doesn't it? It filters down. You're already the best. You can't learn more. Exactly. You're here because you're the best. We're the best. You just go out there and do your stuff. That's it. That's what they want to do. that is what you know according to reports that is what Mbappe and Vinicius and Bellingham they all want to do that and Javi Alonso's going no no no you don't understand that doesn't always work you've look what happened to you against Arsenal last season that's what he's trying to say and that's what he was tasked with by Florentino as well exactly because with Ancelotti right Ancelotti kind of got the best out of them in that they would have a swashbuckling style they'd come roaring back in games they'd show that character and the mental strength the individual brilliance but again though with the way football is going and certain teams the way they play I mean they were totally outplayed by Arsenal it was stark particularly that game at the Bernabeu where Arsenal just needed to be very defensive so I can't believe that they can't see this and that there's a few teething problems but when you get those incredibly high profile players all just going nah what does the club do?

40:53Yeah it's look it is it's trenched in ego and being indulged by two managers successful managers should be said in Zidane and Ancelotti who are very much arm around the shoulder massaging the ego you know like rolling out the red carpet for the players Alonso has come in and just said life's not going to be comfortable here anymore we need to be better if we want to win things football's evolving for all the reasons you've just said you need to be a lot better and learn a few more things and they just a group of them haven't taken that well Pep Guardiola said that he's taken full advantage of this to be fair to old Pep back in Spain's capital he said that if had he been in charge of Real Madrid last season they replicated Manchester City's form even he would have been sacked which is lovely which is really he also said he was also asked whether he had a message of support for Jabby Alonso a player of course he managed at Bayern and he said I tell him to pee on his own and since he won't be peeing he'll be fine you like that headline right?

41:52now that is a loaded statement Jim because this is a Spanish expression implying that he's human, not magical, and things won't come out perfectly or effortlessly. And also, it was an expression that Jose Mourinho used when he was in charge of Real Madrid. And so, I think when Pep was moving to Barcelona, so he's kind of... It feels like he's been waiting for that. It's a little bit, isn't it? It's a comfort circle, yeah. It was quite nice to see Pep quite relaxed in front of the press for this fixture, because normally he's a bit like, oh, bloody, I have to go back there, here we go again. Whereas he's just rode into town going, yeah, you know what, I'm probably feeling pretty good about myself.

42:25but all said and done there's a very interesting football match to be played tonight and like I say, if Real Madrid lose and if they were to lose convincingly it would be very, very interesting would Xavi Alonso still be in the job even by the time he's got in his car but Manchester City though they've not been brilliant this season, Jim you look at them in the Champions League this season they are 12th they've won three, drawn one and lost one we know they're not the side they were a couple of years ago. Blah-de-blah-de-blah. But how do you see this one? I actually think City will get a win here.

43:00I think they'll get a morale-boosting win as well. Now, they've been a bit inconsistent this season, but I think it's perhaps overblown their kind of vulnerability. And I think the defensive issues that Real Madrid have at the moment is players missing, really, the injuries they have. And obviously, Militares are a big miss. I think City will go here with confidence. I think they're going to upset Real Madrid. I think this is this is only going one way for Alonso at the moment and I think this is the worst team that you want coming to town Real Madrid have won four out of five the only game they've lost in the Champions League this season was against Liverpool where Liverpool were very good they've also won two in seven in all competitions recently there is that run of form that I was about to say so what do you think David?

43:38I agree Jim I think City should win this pretty convincingly and could get very frosty there very early White handkerchiefs are we going to see white handkerchiefs? The handkerchiefs are definitely coming out they're being ironed as we speak I'd love it if they actually did either hang on for that dedicated to the cause. Right, gentlemen, elsewhere in the Champions League tonight, by Leverkusen, face Newcastle United, Jabby Alonso's former team, of course. Welcome the Geordie boys to town. Newcastle themselves, a funny time in the Champions League. I mean, they find themselves in 15th, won three, lost two.

44:13What have you made of Newcastle this season, David? Because we talk about the inconsistencies, for example, with Chelsea. Chelsea much further up the table though in the Premier League of course Newcastle themselves teacher and definition of inconsistent really you would say considering you know the talent they have yeah absolutely I think they've had a few injuries as well they're still working things out they've got a brand new centre forward there for the last few years they based it around one particular striker who's no longer at the club so they're just feeling things out and like I said last time I was on the show I just think they'll eventually kick on they've got the full back spot which I think is really key so Levermento and Hall is such a massive part of that system and how they play.

44:52And like I said, I think they'll eventually kick on. It's just such a strong squad there still. Do you feel it's going to take similar shape to what it did last season? Because if you remember in the build-up or the lead-up to Christmas, people were suggesting, you know, is Eddie Howe, is he a bit in trouble? But then kind of after that Christmas period, obviously they go on, they win the cup and they have a very strong finish in the top five. Is that what you'd feel with Newcastle? Because David's right, you know, obviously losing Isak was huge. there's talk Whistler may be included tonight. And that's absolutely massive.

45:23Yeah, it's huge when you think about it. I think it's kind of been forgotten for how long he's been out and such. But I mean, if you've got two fit and firing strikers who are banging goals in, sometimes they can play together as well. Yeah, and he's also a really good option wide, either side. And obviously you've got Barnes, Gordon and Alanga there. Now Alanga's maybe flattered to deceive a little bit, but I think he's a good enough player that it's reasonable to expect that they will get some more from him. I think when you add Whistler to that mix, and also consider that I think Volta Marder is getting kind of more rounded in the role that they want him to play with every game.

45:55I wouldn't be surprised if it was very similar to last season actually where they find their feet a little bit and they start putting those wins together. The schedule is tough for a lot of teams. Most teams are struggling with it. We're talking about the outlay and the squad depth that Chelsea have and they're struggling as well. So it's perfectly reasonable that Newcastle would be the same there. I have been surprised by some of their results just generally this season. I think they should be higher up the table, but I think there's every reason to expect them to kind of click into gear again, as they have under Howe.

46:29I mean, it's like, it's a strength of Howe. It looks like a weakness, right? Because it's been a relatively kind of okay start, but I think it's a strength of his that he can turn that around and get his team kind of firing when the game's come thick and fast. Well, one thing they'll definitely want to do is try and finish in the top eight because I think that might be difficult because if you look at the sides in there, it's a lot of quality. But to not have to have that playoff. And this is a tricky fixture as well. Leverkusen lost to Augsburg at the weekend who are 14th. Obviously, there's 18 teams in the Bundesliga.

47:00That's not ideal. Obviously, they beat City recently. So they're a bit of a... They're quite unpredictable. Yeah, they are. They're a point behind Newcastle as well in the Champions League table. It's one you'd want at home, I would argue. Well, you could argue that if you want, Jim. But it's away from home, so up yours. But Newcastle, yes, I mean, since the international break, they beat Man City, which was a good win. Lost away to Marseille. You think, well, Pope charges out a goal. Those are the kind of away ties that can just, a bit of an experience and they can get away from you. Battered Everton.

47:29Disappointing draw at home to Spurs. On another, you play that nine times out of ten, they win that game. They beat Burnley. Okay, fair enough. And here we are at Bayer Leverkusen. So you would say that last handful of games, there's definitely signs that they're kind of improving and so on and so forth. So, yeah, I think it would be great for them, obviously, if they could get a victory and I fancy them to do it, damn it all. That's what I'm going for. I agree, just one for Jim actually, I was going to ask. Go on. Ramsdale, do you think he could be a bit of an issue with Port being out and such?

47:55I know you had a bit of experience with him at Arsenal. Yeah, I think Aaron Ramsdale is a really interesting character actually in that I think he's a much better goalkeeper than people think he is because he sometimes makes a quite high profile I would agree with you. kind of flap at something and he gave that interview, didn't he, where he talks about how he struggles to concentrate for a whole game, which is why he kind of like, you know, has kind of altercations, shall we say, with the opposing fans and stuff like that. But I think those things are exaggerated. And I think with a proper run in the...

48:27Yeah, sure. No, but I think people think that that means he's, you know, he doesn't, you know, face the right direction for half the game. If Eddie Howe really took that seriously, after every... He just plays 60 minutes and then they sub the keeper off. Yeah. That would be sort of quite something. Aaron Adderall, now. Yeah, well, you know, like some teams, you know there's a sub coming. You know that some managers, there's a particular sub they'll make of a particular player, or they'll bring someone on usually after 60 minutes or whatever. That could be the goalkeeper at Newcastle, you know.

48:55Who will be? Oh, Aaron's thinking about what he's watching on Netflix tonight. Get him off, get him off. You can just start shouting all the game. Eddie Howes going, Aaron, what are you watching? And the moment he turns around and goes, I'll probably get it right. That's him. Aaron, Aaron, Aaron, football's on, football's on. Yeah, no, I think that that stuff is perhaps a little bit exaggerated. his distribution is so much better than Pope's his distribution is very good like it's night and day Pope that's one of the things that they really struggle with at Newcastle is Pope's lack of distribution it's been said many many times before and Ramsdale improves them so much with that regard and I think he will there will be moments where you think oh he probably should have done better on that and possibly like there's a lapse in concentration here and there sometimes there'll be a wayward pass which is something that happens with most goalkeepers that distribute the ball in the way he does it's just part of the payoff and I think that he is worth those moments and I think if he gets a run in the team most people will go oh yeah there's the occasional Rick but there's not many goalkeepers where that's not the case I think he's an improvement on Pope I agree yeah I think he's by and large done well at Newcastle but I think particularly with that distribution element David's not so sure I'm just on the fence with it well yeah I see them about the same level well I tell you what if he's still in goal on the weekend when they face your boys in the North East Derby there's a proper pressure match where he may well find himself interacting, shall we say, with some opposition supporters.

50:15We'll see how distracted he gets with that. But an intriguing game tonight in Germany, Barlow-Vikas versus Newcastle. Look forward to that one. And now before we go, former Newcastle player and current Wales manager, Craig Bellamy, has very much reignited his feud with Canada manager Jesse Marsh. Now, he spoke about Marsh, of course, when they played each other in that friendly in Wales, when Canada got the better of Wales. and when the World Cup draw happened, you know, much was made, certainly on this pod, about Wales potentially getting Canada. Wales, of course, have got that playoff. They've got to beat Bosnia and Herzegovina and then they would have to beat Northern Ireland or Italy in the final.

50:54But should they do, they will be in Canada's group. Surely, if there's anything good and pure left on this planet, that will happen. Yeah, we need to see this. I cannot believe my luck with this feud. Like, Craig Bellamy and Jesse Marsch, who saw that come? It's like Raymond Dominesh and like Nathan Jones. like getting into it somehow. You just wouldn't expect these people to ever meet. It's fantastic. It is. And they seem to sort of be absolutely like baffled by each other. It's like, I don't quite get this guy. I sort of respect him, but I sort of hate him. Yeah. Bellamy's very much like tiptoeing that line, isn't he?

51:30From some of the things he was saying, because he said about Marsh, I've got nothing against that guy, by the way. I think he's got something against the world. That's what did me. That's what I mean. his age. I've never thought... I'm from the world and I'm going to defend it. Yeah, well, damn right. There's a part of me that really likes him from afar without really knowing him. Again, he's just trying to say, yeah, I'm sure he's fine, I'm sure he's fine. I think Bellamy can't stand him. Oh, of course he can't. But some of the things he says, you see his interviews before the other games after playing us, I find him very interesting, which is British for, I think he's a plonker.

52:00Yeah. Asked about Canada's celebrations, of course, after they beat Wales last September, Bellamy said, all those wind me up. I've got to be honest, they do. Be respectful. It's maybe more for TikTok or Instagram. I'm not a dinosaur, trust me. I'm not old-fashioned, but there's a level of respect. And he said, I really hope we get them. It's a proper, you know, right, we're coming for you. And he said, I know we've got to put Bosnia and Herzegovina away and then we've got to prepare for Northern Ireland or Italy. And he said, even if we lose that game, we'll play one of them. We're coming for you!

52:30Didn't it stem from two people on the Canadian bench doing a high five? Yeah. Which is just something North American men do, right? Yeah, he wasn't happy with those celebrations. It's not that bad. Jim, all it takes is a little minor something and then woof, we're away. So I really want my horse to get there. Oh, same. And reading about this was how I discovered that the two losers of the World Cup playoff semis have to play each other in a friendly. That's nice, isn't it? Not everything has to be a game, FIFA. That is astonishing to me. Player welfare, though, you know? Player welfare. Yeah, right?

53:02Jesus. That's more pointless than the third place player for the Nations League. it's very much beyond that family isn't it but it's so low down the pecking order who is watching that I know right the thing is like with the Nations League right because that was really pointless to have a third place playoff match there at least some team gets a medal alright I know that's not the reason for having it but there's an element of well done this is it is the sad friendly yeah that's what it is the sadly yeah it is and it's so far away from the next qualification cycle to be kind of pointless as well you're not really learning anything from that surely well I mean to the point of you might as well just go yeah we'll play the under 18s or something or do you just say to the other team should we not bother yeah fine done see you later there's surely going to be a player if one of those nations gets called up and is like what we're going for again like what is this game again like why that'll be a sick name if you're in that game blimey but of course it's a dunce's hat isn't it it's another another dunce's hat of a game but we will be sure to cover it on the Football Ramble thanks for listening to the Football Ramble part of the ACARS Creator Network friends of the Ramble don't go anywhere keep listening for Ramble Uncut.

54:05And if you're not a friend of the Ramble, head over to painter.com to sign up now. There we are. Thank you very much, Jimmy. Thank you. Thank you, Davey. Thank you. And thank you, Craig Bellamy.

54:21The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.