The curtain falls

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1:25Luke Moore: Rich in love and slow to anger, everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble! PSG are European champions and slots gone. It's Monday 1st of June. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. I'm Jim Campbell. And I'm the Dishina Hunter-Ajah.

1:49Luke Moore: And just like that the club season was over Yeah There may be other fixtures and other leagues we don't care about them So we're doing an hour on the World Cup Strap yourself in Strap yourself in Well done PSG Anyway Thomas Tuchel thinks we've got the squad to win the cup That's what we want It's not a cup is it What is it called? It's a trophy though isn't it? It's a trophy. It's not a cup. Yeah, that's right. I think we've got a chance at the World Trophy. And if you're in... You can't drink out of the World Cup. No, you can't. No. Take it up with... Every now and again a little Tudor comes up and puts his arm around it thinking it's on the slot.

2:23Luke Moore: Exactly. More on Slotty later. But yes, the World Cup is just round the corner. Our England versus Croatia watch party at 40 Foot Brewery in Blackhorse is completely sold out. But tickets are available for the other watch parties. That's the group stage matches against Ghana on the 23rd of June and Panama on the 27th. We knocked six past them last time, or Panama, so I guarantee you goals for that game. Free beer with every goal. I'm getting looked at now. Yeah. Not for the Panama game. If you can... Because they're fucking smoking. If you can find Luke Moore for every goal... I've got a company card.

3:00Luke Moore: He'll go in hiding. He had a very good disguise. Then get involved. Tickets are selling fast. If you'd like to join us, click the link in the show notes and secure your tickets while you still can. We'll all be there. And I can't stress enough how great it's going to be. And as Luke, you mentioned before, when the photos start coming out for the Croatia one, there'll be a mass screen. If there are any left, don't delay. Get them today. Right then, let's go to the Champions League final that happened on Saturday. PSG won, Arsenal won, Paris Saint-Germain won 4-3 on penalties. They've done it. They've won back-to-back Champions Leagues, the first side since Real Madrid did it.

3:39Luke Moore: But only two sides have done it, of course, in the history of this competition. Well, Real Madrid did it three times in a row, didn't they? They did it three times. Don't say that because PSG are going to bloody... But it was an epic battle, this game. It was the clash of styles everybody knew it was going to be. First time, though, since 2016 that it has gone to penalties, the final. And the first time since 2018 that both sides have scored. That is surprising. In the final, indeed, yeah. But Jim Campbell, your beloved Arsenal, they took them all the way and it went down to the dreaded penalty shootout.

4:13Luke Moore: Whoever was going to lose that game, I mean, it was one of those games where I was just exhausted at the end of it. I wanted Arsenal to win, of course, being the damn fine Englishman that I am. But I really felt for you and your mob because having come through all that and then to lose it in such cruel fashion must have been gutting. But what were your thoughts generally?

4:33Jim Campbell: Well, Marcus, as a passionate England fan, you, like everybody around this table, is familiar with the idea of scoring too early. And that would be straight away. Like, this is going to be a long night just because of the way this team is and the battle we expect to have. It had been a little bit cagey before that, but probably more open than it was for the rest of the game in the six minutes prior to that goal. And it made me think, OK, maybe this is going to be a game with chances in it. maybe space will open up. Obviously, it didn't turn out that way. And I think, actually, the game and the clash of styles that followed were a direct result of that goal coming so early.

5:16Jim Campbell: Now, I think Arsenal would always have approached the game like that eventually, but the fact that they scored that quickly meant that they kind of went straight into that mode. And winning a game in that style is like a particularly boring high-wire act and very, very difficult to pull off. And actually, in terms of limiting PSG, I thought they did that brilliantly. More so than anyone in the knockout stages has done in the last two seasons, really. But they needed to craft a second clear opening and they didn't manage to do it. I was concerned about how Arsenal would be if they had to be reactive.

5:53Jim Campbell: And when they did have to be reactive, they kind of pressed a little bit more and they kind of took a few forays up the pitch. But what was really telling for me was that literally every time they did that, PSG hit them on the break. It's like, this is why they played in that particular way. And to me, it kind of justifies playing like that. I think even though they lost, it was still the correct approach. Because I think, as we all know, if you try and turn it into a basketball game with PSG, they will tell you to pieces. If you turn it into a rugby match, they will take the penalties and still win.

6:25Jim Campbell: Yeah, I mean, it's fair to say, Luke, they're a difficult side to play against. Very much so, yeah. And I agree broadly with the approach. I thought they played right on the edge of what was acceptable for large parts of the game, Arsenal. I thought, you know, in the first half, and that might well be because they scored the goal early, as you mentioned, Jim, which was a fortunate kind of ricochet and then Havertz takes advantage. I mean, it's quite an interesting thing in the Ramble WhatsApp group. There's a little bit of chat around whether the keeper was to blame or not, Safinoff, for that goal.

6:52I did feel like at the time he could have come, it could have narrowed the angle more. He could have stayed very, very close to his post. I liked it. Yeah, I know you did. Haberts did the right thing.

7:03Luke Moore: He did exactly the right thing. You've always got to roof it. He did exactly the right thing. Ryan Giggs in an FA Cup semi-final nose. You've always got to roof it. As a striker, you would be coached to roof it in that position. Yes. He did exactly the right thing. It was a great finish. Yeah. But I think Safinov didn't, I think Safinov made it slightly easier. Haberts found the gap, and the gap wasn't massive anyway. But I do feel like, I haven't had the time or the inclination to go back and try and find a load of different examples of players scoring in that position to see if the keeper comes out a bit more.

7:29He just seemed like he stayed home and made a decision for him. Anyway.

7:33Luke Moore: I think keepers would normally, just to add to that, I think keepers, the Ryan Giggs one, but I think keepers normally do stand there and stand tall. But it was like he made himself small though. Yeah, he did. He crouched down. That was the fault there. Maybe that's the fault. I think Steven Gerrard said he should have stood a bit taller because a goalkeeper is going to do that. I think if the goalkeeper sees the defender covering, the player really has to shoot across the keeper, which is what they're expecting. and the angle is probably for the keeper at that point, which is why you've got to roof it.

7:58Luke Moore: If you're standing tall, you're there. But look, we said before, one of the things about this PSG side, they don't have Donnarumma. And actually, Arsenal, in that moment, made the most of that. Yeah, they did. Donnarumma would probably save it. So I'm not sitting here saying that I think Arsenal should have gone toe-to-toe with PSG. I think we saw what happened in the Champions League final last year. We've seen PSG do what they do repeatedly and they're a brilliant, brilliant side. I think the approach that Arsenal took was absolutely spot on. I think the takes that people have made where they're like, oh, well, you know, it's embarrassing going into a file like that and behaving in that way, you know, the possession was so low.

8:33I think that's bullshit. I do think it's bullshit. But I do...

8:36Luke Moore: You didn't think it was embarrassing then? I thought that was a bit over the top. Yeah, but I... I thought it was a stain on our country. The World Cup year as well. No, but I do think there's something... And look, you know, in today's society, it's very polarised. You can't have a nuanced take on anything. but let me have a try anyway. I totally understand why Arsenal approached it the way they did and I totally understand why they push on the very limit of what is acceptable in terms of, it's almost like they go to the referee, this is on you to referee us now. We're going to make sure that you have to actively referee us and stay in control of us because we are going to try and get away with whatever we can.

9:16And there was a moment after the water break in the first half, which I just thought was ridiculous. I thought the referee had to go over there and say, the ball breaks over now, PSG are ready. And it felt... It came back to bite them at the end of the first half, though, didn't it? That's the risk you run, right? Of course. Look, I guess what I'm trying to say is I totally understand why they're doing it. It is up to the referee to referee the game. But I don't think as Arsenal... I don't think as Arsenal fans or Arsenal players or anyone associated with Arsenal, you can realistically plead ignorance as to why you are, quote, hated when you go after the game the way they did.

9:52they deserve a huge amount of credit for staying with PSG for as long as they did they were very very close to winning I mean they're basically apparently kick away apparently kick or two away from being European champions and they have been fucking brilliant they've been one of the best teams maybe not the best team in Europe but one of the best teams in Europe in both penalty areas they're certainly the best team in England but you can't be ignorant about why people think that it's a bit shit to watch is what I'm saying

10:16Jim Campbell: yeah I mean it's it's certainly not one for the athletes but it's interesting you talk about this supposed edge, because Arsenal actually consult PGMOL, which obviously everybody can do, and I would assume that they do the same thing. Can you use their proper purpose? Sorry, the pug posse. So I would assume they do the same with the UEFA, whatever the equivalent of a posse that starts with a U is. So they actually consult them on where the line is. So this stuff is very much by design, and it is very thought out. So that is, you know, obviously that's one of the very many sort of Mikel Arteta, galaxy-brained marginal gains.

10:55Jim Campbell: But yeah, I mean, that is absolutely by design. And I think... What do you think of it? I think it's smart. I think if you are going to play this type of game against this type of team, I think this is the most extreme version of this kind of boring haramble that we've seen from Arsenal. I think there's been a lot of dull, dull games this season from Arsenal. This one is by far and away the most in terms of that approach. And I think, you know, if it works for you, it's within the rules by design of it or slightly over the line and you get punished if it is. Fair enough. I mean, it's a good thing for the players to know the rules.

11:30I think in the second half, though, they stopped executing it well.

11:35Jim Campbell: So they were going long every time. And Kai Havertz got in too many tangles that weren't quite coming off for him. He's trying to win a foul and instead he's giving away a free kick or he's being a little bit too weak. I mean, he held the ball up pretty well on some occasions, but once that stopped being effective, it meant that the ball kept coming back and coming back. And you always expect that, and Arsenal dealt with it well. They sort of kept it wide and they nullified that. But it did mean that, again, in terms of hunting out a second goal, you've got so far to travel. And it just made it very, very difficult to even conceptualise.

12:09Luke Moore: It was reminiscent of England-Italy in the Euro final. Yes. People have made that. I think it was actually more extreme than that. In terms of the dynamic and the way the game went. I think the similarities with the England game are the fact that I thought Arsenal were really bad with what little of the ball they had. To the point where, why is Odegaard hoofing it? Why is Saka hoofing it? I feel like there were a number of times where actually they could have trusted themselves to play out of what were potentially, I mean, what were awkward situations since I'm trying to clear it. I feel like they didn't even try to do that.

12:44They were playing a lot of the first half after the goal, like it was the last 10 minutes of the game. And I think because of that, like obviously they end up seeing out the first half, but I think they come out for the second half thinking, deep breath, we've got to do that all again. And I feel like they should have, there were moments where you could have, you know, inflicted a bit of a wound on PSG that reminds you that they are a team to be got out. Because PSG were nervous as well. Yeah, the fact that... They were spooked by the early goal. The fact that Fabian Ruiz is taking pot shots from out wide on the left on the half volley is a bit like, oh mate, like, Farris Aurelia was very quiet in the first half, Mosquera did a decent job on him, but...

13:22So did Saka, by the way, that's because Saka's contribution was almost entirely defensive.

13:25Jim Campbell: He pretty much literally played as a defender. Well, he, I think Saka only completed four passes in his entire time on the pitch, I think. Wow. That's unbelievable. Euro 2024, Saka. Yeah, a little bit of that, yeah. And I do wonder if they, by doing that, PSG, I'm sorry, Arsenal almost reminded PSG that they are the best team in Europe. Yeah, they're feared. Because we're playing against you like this. We're scared of you, still scared of you.

13:52Luke Moore: Yeah, you're right. And it's easy to tell you things, but when you're in, when they've just got you pressed back, it's so immensely difficult. But they are the champions of England, they're in a European Champions League final. They have to do something a bit different. I mean, I remember, Luke, as we all do, when they hammered Inter in the previous final PSG, you were saying, Inter, you have to go long for five minutes. And Inter did the opposite. You saw what happened. They were completely discombobulated. The thing you would say about Arsenal on that exact point is, one, that they were so focused on what they had planned to do, regardless of what you think of it.

14:28Luke Moore: They went to penalties for crying out loud. I've said that. They were two kicks away from winning it. And the second thing I would say, I've never seen a team at the very, very top level win so many second balls so consistently. I haven't seen the stats, but I'd be surprised if PSG won hardly any second balls. Like every single time the ball went into Arsenal's half, PSG may do something, get a nod down or whatever. The second ball, Arsenal just cleaned it up. They were so good at that. I mean, the thing is, like you say, you have to stress the point that I agree with your earlier point, Luke.

14:59Luke Moore: I don't think there's any other way Arsenal could have approached this game. There have been times this season where myself and others have wanted a bit more out of Arsenal. I mean, when they beat Burnley 1-0 at home, I was like, seriously, come on, put that game to bed. That's what they've done this season. And it's won them the league. And it's so nearly won them the Champions League. So the idea that they're suddenly going to have a total rethink and become a very different side in the final is especially against a side who probably the first and only time this season, other than maybe the odd fixture here and there, like Bayern in the group stage of the Champions League.

15:34Luke Moore: But we kind of let that go because those sides don't put the afterburners onto the knockouts. But the first time really this season, they've played a better side than them. So there is that to contend with. But Vish, you were particularly, if I may, on the Ramble WhatsApp group. You thought Eze should have kind of missed the penalty, but you thought he should have brought him on and you were a little bit frustrated by Arteta's tactics. I was a little well I suppose I was a little bit frustrated about not necessarily his tactics I was more frustrated about how the players were applying them right I suppose kind of as I said in terms of lack of composure in the middle I thought Ezra should have come on because he gives you that bigger profile in the middle comfortable on the ball more ambitious with his passing both footed as well and then when he brought on Martinelli I was like I mean I kind of understand why you're doing this but he's not going to keep the ball for you he's going to defend and like he's gonna make someone, you know, cut in and instead of go down the byline, but I didn't think that was needed.

16:30But then again, he's Mikhail Teter, I was just watching it from a pub in Northampton. Like, I'm not overly dismayed by that, but I think the thing that you touched on there before you threw to me was just the margins at, you know, the really sharp end of, you know, the top of the game is that you need a bit of attacking quality. You need quality on the ball, don't you? and it probably shows in the fact that Arsenal were lacking that because you know they went unbeaten throughout in regular time throughout the whole Champions League in open play and they haven't won it

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19:38Luke Moore: And when he brought Jokare's on, and obviously I got that point. So I thought he did okay. Well, I wasn't sure. He didn't really lose the ball that often.

19:51Jim Campbell: Well, what I was going to say, Bish, he did, I would say.

19:54Luke Moore: Okay, fine, fine. So my observations of that was, it was what you really get from Jokeres. The fact is that he's not quite, he's not an elite level striker. He's not quite Michael Marino in that position. Indeed he's not. I mean, there's very few. Sorry, just to like, you know, redo what I said, but it felt like the times he did lose the ball, it was a bit of a hit and hope up to him. Well, it was a hapless task, but for me, when I'm watching him, I thought, yeah, you can see where the criticisms are. In a game of this magnitude, of this quality, you see how good the PSG forward line is. And then poor old Jocheres comes on, and it was kind of him in a bit of a nutshell, really, that whole performance, because, again, his touch wasn't immaculate.

20:39Luke Moore: It's him against good teams. Indeed. And so he doesn't give the outlet and so on. However, nearly won it with that effort towards it. I know it kind of goes to it, but it takes a deflection. If not, that would have trouble to keep it. I suppose he's there to get one chance. And also scored his penalty. So actually, you know, he's obviously, for crying out loud, not the reason why Arsenal lost it. It was ridiculous to suggest. But that was him. But this is the thing. Arsenal, we'll get onto the bigger picture with Arsenal in a minute. but you compare those front lines I know Saka's a quality player and so on but I mean look you mentioned on the break I mean Kvarat Scalier when he ran through Desiree Douai as well I mean I forget which one Miles Lewis-Skelly stopped Douai and Lewis-Skelly was fantastic by the way and I think Tuchel may regret actually not taking him to the World Cup but it's a different point

21:24Jim Campbell: Well he's only been a midfielder for a month hasn't he in terms of his actual time on the pitch

21:29Luke Moore: and look I appreciate Ryan Bertram once put in a performance you know in a Champions League final so you know That was his debut wasn't it as well In the Champions League it was, yeah. But Lewis Gillard, I thought was brilliant. I didn't want that to be lost. But again, the quality PSG had, it was always about Arsenal containing them. But it's frustrating, though, for Arsenal fans that the goal they score is from a penalty.

21:50Jim Campbell: Yeah, it is. And it obviously is a penalty all day long. And they were saying in the commentary a lot about how clever it is from Kovac Scalia because he knows once Mosquera is in that position that he's going to legitimately foul him if he just gets into... He's the wrong side. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's from the blind side. and he's quite fortunate maybe not to get a second yellow yeah I think he possibly was he gets subbed right after yeah and I think that was right as well because that is a moment where it's not necessarily about you being a danger for a second yellow as much as it is for like you being switched off as you're processing everything yeah you also have these whether we like it or not we also have these situations where referees are human beings right because the referees decide it's not a second yellow and then thinks a few minutes later oh actually I've missed that yeah he's looking for the next one is he looking to we see referees do that we have seen that I'm not trying to throw shade on them because it's a tough job and it's the pinnacle of their career as well so you have to acknowledge that but what's interesting about that is that although it was a kind of PSG play like this and Arsenal are going to play like this and it's like who's going to come out on top and it kind of fought out to a stalemate and obviously it's decided on penalties there were some flashpoints some refereeing decision flashpoints in the game which could have gone either way which would have made a massive difference like for example I thought the Saka thing was a definite penalty.

23:04I couldn't believe I didn't even check that.

23:06Jim Campbell: No, I was the same and apparently everyone in the ground was the same as well. Right, because he, I mean, literally, first of all, I know...

23:11Luke Moore: That wasn't mentioned, sorry to interrupt, but Arteta was talking about the Maduweke one. Yeah. He never mentioned that one. Funny, that, innit? It's weird, yeah, it's weird he mentioned that. You mean the Saka handball, when he handballed it on his own penalty area? Yeah. Yeah, he also said, Arteta also said, yeah, Arteta also said, yeah, it was frustrating because obviously they got one down the other end. It's like, well, it was completely different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, yeah, the fact is that, you know, when he talked about it, it was a definite penalty on Kravitz Gery. And the Saka one, as you say, he got away with.

23:37The Saka one, though, is early enough in the game to throw a whole new complexion on him. Because if PSG get that penalty, you'd expect them to score it. They score it. It's almost like, okay, now there's a long way to go. And are Arsenal going to be able to play in that way, given the context of the game? And then the second yellow from Oskar, which you talked about, and then the Maduaki one, which you've just mentioned there, To me, that's, you know, I'm sitting there as a neutral. I don't care. I'm not like you, Marcus. I don't care if Arsenal win it or not. Obviously, I'm not really supporting PSG either.

24:08But to me, if that's given either way, I'm not really bothered. I'm like, okay, fine. I can see it either way kind of thing. And so the people who are screaming out that was an obvious penalty, ah, that's copium, right? That's just like people are fucking desperate for it. And the people who think it's no way a penalty are like, well, that's probably not the case either. All it does is just show up that actually the officials have got a really tough job and so they don't do it they don't give it presumably because Maduweke's got his arm over Mendes as well I think so

24:34Jim Campbell: so the weird scenario for me watching that was that when anything significant happened I could hear people reacting to it outside so there was and obviously the stream's a little bit behind so I heard a big kind of cheer and thought oh something's happened so then obviously Maduweke gets into the box and I'm thinking oh he's probably going to be fouled maybe this is a penalty so it's a very odd situation to look at that in real time and you know what's about to happen. So in real time I was like, oh yeah, sure, he's taking him down. And looking back at the replay of it, it's a really odd one because Mendez has his arm across Madueke first and then he obviously hooks it.

25:12And

25:12Jim Campbell: I think, you know, if that hook isn't there and he's essentially just barging down into the back of him and taking him over, isn't he? But it's that hook, isn't it? Well, it's that hook. But then on another end of the slight contact. It's again because Mendez puts his arm over first.

25:22Luke Moore: Jim, there's slight contact on the back of Madueke's leg that some people will point to. But I didn't think ultimately it was a penalty. And I don't want to see them given, actually.

25:31Jim Campbell: But it's also one of those ones where when you, you know, just go through a little checklist that I've gone through there, it's like you can't argue it's clear and obvious. Because there are too many factors in it.

25:40Luke Moore: The only angle which actually suggested it was, was when it was on the back of Maduweke's leg at Nuna Mendes. It looks like there may be slight contact. But as he then goes on, it didn't look like that was the contact to take him down. And as you say, when Maduweke goes down, it's always that thing when if a defender's slightly leaning on an attacker and an attacker goes down, the defender will often go over him because of just the balance. Their speed will go in. And people immediately think, oh, well, they're there for it's a penalty. He's brought him down. It's actually because he's got the arm.

26:08Luke Moore: If he goes down, he's going to bring Mendez down with him. And I get the point you make, particularly Arsenal obviously wanted that penalty. But I don't think many people... I'm not blaming Arsenal fans for wanting it. No, no, no. That's what football's all about. But my point is that I didn't see anybody worth their salt saying that was a pen. Well, I mean, to be honest, though, the not big takeaway from that was, I thought Madiwaki looked quite lively when he came on. He did. He always does. He always does. He's direct. He is direct. I'm just thinking of the bigger picture. Well, that's the thing.

26:37If you are thinking of the bigger picture, you know, we don't want to go too tangential about it. But, you know, you could argue, given what we've seen, that, you know, England might be a bit light on the right-hand side. Yeah. If Saka's going to put in a performance that is befitting of this season, where it's been okay. I know he had a fairly strong end to the season. He scored at Atlético in the semi. didn't he? And then they, so he's shown it in flashes. But I was speaking to producer Rory earlier, who's a big Arsenal fan as well, and he was saying, he was saying that, he looks like he needs a break, he needs a rest kind of thing.

27:08And obviously two guys haven't picked Bowie. To be honest, he hasn't picked Bowie.

27:13Jim Campbell: I don't know that I would agree with that, actually. We'll take it up with Rory. I will do later. He's massive, though. He's a conversation neither of us will enjoy. We do have England Jack coming, so as loath as I am to be the one to stop it. But I'm just saying, what you do get with Malueke is, as Vish says, direction. I think against Serbia, the England game, which I always go back to, Malueke started the game and he was brilliant. But, you know, that's all England have got, really. Unless you want to play someone out of position. So it's another conversation I know. Indeed, yeah. But I do think, what I don't want to say is that I don't want this to be critical of Saka, because I do think that although the numbers for Saka in this Champions League final were appalling, that doesn't tell you the story of the job he had to perform on the night, which he had performed pretty admirably, I thought.

27:57He put an amazing shift in. He just didn't contribute going forward. And that's just what the night called for, I think.

28:02Luke Moore: And we haven't even mentioned the penalty shootout, of course. I mean, not that we really need to. But the fact is, you know, Arteta, I've likened him to Gareth Southgate at times over the years in his approach. And that's what he was trying to do. It was, let's make sure that they don't win the game and can we nick it on a moment. They got to penalties. And obviously those who scored, I thought Jock Rose would put his away. blah blah blah Eber Echeze I remember that one he missed in the Community Shield final missed a few he's always taken them like that yeah and I was like oh okay drives me mentally same Steven Gerrard made the point didn't he that it's complicated enough and it's not comfortable for me to be sitting here spot on with Steven Gerrard because I think he's hit and miss on his analysis right and with his penalties yeah well but one thing that I cannot believe in a world of like detail and as you were talking about earlier, marginal gains and stuff like that, right?

28:56I understand players of that type need to express themselves. That's kind of what they're strong at. But when you step up and take a penalty like that, you are completely disregarding the entire premise of what a penalty is. A penalty, generally speaking, in open play for those people who are new to the game or whatever, is awarded to give the advantage to an attacking player, right? Now, the football authorities have decided that a penalty competition at the end of a game is the way to decide a game, right? The reason everyone says goalkeepers can become heroes and the rest of it is because no one expects a keeper to save a penalty, right?

29:28So what you're doing when you take a penalty like that is you are picking it up, wrapping it up, chucking in the bin all the advantage you've ever got already by overcomplicating it and turn it into a game of cat and mouse that you don't need to do, right? It doesn't make any sense. Also, the discomfort for a staggered penalty is always most evident in a penalty shootout because it took him ages to get to the ball. And also, there's a lack of conviction in how far he decides to put the ball in the corner. Because if you think the keeper's gone the other way, you don't need to put it that far into the side A.

30:01100%.

30:01Jim Campbell: I think the lack of conviction is right. It always strikes me, and I know he's taken penalties like this before, but particularly in a shootout, it strikes me as someone who hasn't made a decision and is going to make the decision in the moment based on what the goalkeeper does. Safinov is a good penalty stopper. He's not someone who's going to take that bait. I can't believe Arteta hasn't banned them for the reason that you said about the marginal gains for that reason and I also think I know it's highly highly valued for a player to want to take a penalty in this situation and I also appreciate three of Arsenal's better penalty takers were off the pitch but Gabriel going last I think is a shame as well because he hit that penalty like a clearance yeah Zubimendi and Madueke were on and I think one of them should have stepped up I think it looks so bad on Madueke who was fighting at Chelsea to take a penalty Yeah.

30:50It was like him, Palmer and Jackson, wasn't it? So you want to take one now when you're already four zip up. That doesn't look good, I don't think.

30:57Jim Campbell: I also think Hincapie had a bit of a knock in added time. I think he would have taken one. He would have got his arse out again. I think he would have taken one with his arse out. I think it would have been the winning penalty. I love that. I mean, he slapped it on how do you like that?

31:14Luke Moore: Yeah. One for the directors who have got that angle behind the goal. Yeah. Go to the side angle, to the side. This is probably more because Arteta looks frenetic all the time. But I got the impression on TV that Arsenal weren't as prepared as I thought they would be for penalties. Yeah, I know what you mean. I thought there was a lot of chat which didn't involve the players. The most confusing one was David Rowe was sat in the dugout in the bench. Yeah, I saw this. And he had like three or four... It was like... It was like that Queen video where people were just popping out of nowhere. He's like a boxer in the round.

31:46Luke Moore: Everyone's chatting to him and he's just like, he's not taking anything. But Keppel was there as well. Yeah, he popped his head in. I can come on for this if you want. Do you want me to do one? How good was that? I've got a record in finals. He's got a little caramel cup next to him, put the next little part. I liked that observation because I felt exactly the same and it seemed to me that Ray went quite early on a lot of them.

32:10Jim Campbell: Oh, I mean, it does. Remember the Man United It feels churlish to be critical of him because he did save a penalty and he was the only one to do it The nature in which he saved the penalty I suppose explains why he goes so early I think what he's done is he's done his homework and then he just makes as quick a decision as possible because of how hard people can hit penalties but some of them he just got his timing wrong and effectively left an open goal like Diana Ross could have put a couple of those in

32:36Luke Moore: Not that Diana We'll never forget that But yeah there was one penalty where he went particularly early. I think it was the PSG.

32:43Jim Campbell: It was the fourth one.

32:43Luke Moore: It was the fourth one. But to be honest with you, I think the reason why he does go early, we've seen him do it before. The reason why he does that is clearly the analysts have said to him, none of these are waiting for you to move. They are picking their spot and they're going to hit him wherever. So you might as well go early because that one, the fourth one, whips it beautifully in the corner. The only way you're saving that is if you go early and of course he's gone the right. And if you go the other way, then you look a bit foolish. So I have a degree of sympathy. As you say, he was, I mean, you know, Arsenal obviously missed the target with two penalties, which when it comes down to those margins, you know, missing the target with two penalties.

33:17Luke Moore: Also, you can't. I'm reluctant to be critical, you know, because it's obviously very difficult.

33:21Jim Campbell: Well, it's a lottery, isn't it?

33:22Luke Moore: It did. But when Gabriel stepped up, you saw that there was, you know, he's not a player you think is going to take a lot of penalties. His body shape has got myths written all over it.

33:33Jim Campbell: Some players you can just tell by how they physically look. I thought Saliba would take one. Yeah. I thought there was a calm little... one against Palace

33:40Luke Moore: that was quite good as well. I wonder what their penalty preparation was like. You would think in this day and age Probably really weird. Well, maybe. But you would think in this day and age with a coach like Arteta at a side like Arsenal it would have been thorough. Like it's almost implausible to think it wasn't thorough. So whatever the situation but you then go to the actual doings of the game. They're there on the pitch. They're in the huddle. Who's up for it? And if someone is absolutely bricking it and the whole process and all that bollocks has gone out the window and they've lost their head you can't say well, hang on a minute here.

34:09So maybe, you know, Gabriel's going,

34:11Luke Moore: no, I'm the bloody man to do this. Nani, you're normally fighting for the ball, please. What's going on? Yeah, Flayne showed the footage of the Chelsea game. He's our man. But anyway, Gabriel, and what didn't happen, what didn't help him, was this the referee getting his own back on Arsenal, that little chat with the ref beforehand? Yeah, it went for ages. The long wait, and that is where... It happened before the first one as well, to be fair. Okay, fair enough. But, well, that was with the goalkeepers, but that's where you see, take Harry Kane, obviously, very, very well versed in a penalty taker.

34:38Luke Moore: that's where you see him do his process and go right I've been disrupted and I'm going to start again but realistically speaking that penalty buddy's thing as well yeah Gabriel's not going to spend anywhere he's not even going to spend a fraction of the time on penalties that Kane is you know Kane's going to have taken thousands of them literally on and off the pitch he's just going to have done that and the process is there and that's taken as far as I understand it that's taken from wasn't there some chat back in the day that's taken from like Johnny Wilkinson I believe so picking someone in the crowd and going for a process and doing it at the same time and it almost becomes like second nature.

35:09So when, literally when the pressure's on, you can fall back on your technique and you've got that process and it's like doing it in the park. But Gabriel's not gonna have done that. It's not, it's not. It's all capoeira. Exactly, exactly. But it's also, and dancing. It's also not, it's not a good use of his time. As a professional. But also as well, look. It's fucking stupid. But the fact that he's got a garden. He's got a garden. Yeah, yeah, it's true. I mean, how annoying Mikel Artes would be if he saw like Salima taking three kicks. What are you doing?

35:37Luke Moore: Get a bit of shirt in your hand. Gerrard said to Eze, you know, put your foot through it. Well, it doesn't always work, you know. No, that's true. I felt sorry for him. Did Gerrard also say about Gabriel's penalty, he didn't need to put it that high? Well, yeah. Yeah, fair. Cheers for that. He didn't. And the PSG missed one. He's just a little bit further away from the keeper. But yeah, I felt sorry for Gabriel. He's had a magnificent season, obviously. I thought he had a brilliant game as well. Oh, he was magnificent at the back. This is it, you know. I think they're both characters

36:06Jim Campbell: that will get over this quickly.

36:07Luke Moore: I would say so as well. And do you know what? I actually think the trophy parade the day after, you would think that would have helped them as well. Oh, massively. Because you see the scenes, you know. Yeah. And it was, you know, quite incredible and all that. But Declan Rice, he spoke after the game and said since he came to the club, it was a quarterfinal exit in the Champions League, semifinal last season and now a final. We keep going. We keep staying positive. This isn't going to define us. And I think, you know, Luke, you made the point on the WhatsApp group, you know, he's very good, Declan Rice.

36:34Luke Moore: speaking after, you know, as a sort of a leader, if you like, of the team. But he is right. You know, if you compare this to Arsenal's previous Champions League final all those years ago, which was the end of that team cycle, really, and obviously they then go, how long without winning the Premier League? 22 years. We've heard that stat many times. This feels different. Arsenal will improve next season. Surely they will. Style-wise, how are they going to change it next season? because I'd be very surprised, Jim, if they take the same approach to the Premier League and the Champions League as they did this season.

37:08Jim Campbell: Yeah, I mean, Artessa changes things every season. He tweaks them. It was only a few seasons ago that they scored 91 goals in the Premier League. So I would imagine he's in his lab right now thinking about how he can combine this defence with those sort of attacking numbers. But there's so much positive noise coming out of the club as well at the kind of upper levels of it about how ambitious they're going to be in the transfer market and the type of characters they've assembled, as you've mentioned with Rice and a few others in there who are, you know, they're all pulling in the same direction.

37:37Jim Campbell: They're all very, very positive. It's a very positive time to be an Arsenal fan despite this. There's an immense sense of pride in how close they came. However much kind of people on the outside might hate the style of it and I completely understand that. I would hate watching another team play like that as well. But it is still, it's actually really exciting. Yeah, I feel that's right. I'll just come up with a couple of points which is just that, first of all, look how long it took PSG to do it. You know, there was a laughing stop for how long it took them to do it given the finances they've got.

38:05Yeah, they only had a state behind them. Exactly. Messi, Neymar,

38:10Luke Moore: they all had a go. And secondly, I just want to reiterate this point because I genuinely think it's quite important. Like, you know, when we talk about how Arsenal approach it and how they approach certain key games and stuff like that, right, you need to, I think we just need to separate out what the role of like a football fan or pundit or whatever is and what the role of the team is. Their role is to win. That's the only thing they're tasked with in 20 years time when they look back on this period of their career they're going to be looking at the Premier League medal they ain't going to be looking about the Burnley game it's right for us to point it out and it's right for us to talk about this game but ultimately they would have done their prep across a week and a half two weeks of what can we do to give us the best chance of winning and it might not happen anyway but we need to give ourselves the best chance and we're within our rights to say that was boring as fuck if that's what you think but they it's not about I often find this gets confused all the time like you know Fans talk between each other, rival fans, about how their team plays football and stuff.

39:04Ultimately, you're there to experience the team, to enjoy it, to support them. They're there to win. That's their job. They're not going to be thinking... There's no way a single one of those players, subs, managers, coaches, any of them, would have thought, wow, it's a bit annoying. We should be fucking knocking the ball out a bit more. They're so focused on winning, and that's their job. So I think it's really important to make that point. Also, you see, after PSG won the shootout, Declan Rice was smiling. Like there was a kind of... It was a rueful smile. It was a rueful smile. But I think it was a smile that said, thank God that's over, let's get on to the proper stuff.

39:37Yeah, the World Cup. Take me to the US. It gives us something to focus on.

39:41Jim Campbell: Put my penalty away, didn't I? If you're going to spin it though, you'd say it gives us something to focus on. Look how long they had to work hard to win the league. They come second so many times. And if you are going to give... The amount of credit, even if you find them a bit of a risible character, The amount of credit that Arteta needs to have and be given for being able to lift that team over and over again, while he's not only got a load of pressure on his own shoulders about being the Neely man, about being David Bren, about all these clips that go around about him, he's also able to lift that group of players to get them over that hump to win the Premier League.

40:16And to do it in the same season in the Champions League as well is probably, was obviously beyond them, but only just. And it gives us time to focus on next. you know so it's loads of positives loads of positives

40:25Luke Moore: if they find themselves in a final again of the Champions League more than 24.7 % possession that's got to be the target that's got to be the target that's a

40:33Jim Campbell: revenge mission now isn't it get some ninjas in or something it's alright beating one team in the back of our state you've got to beat the second one as well Jim

40:42Luke Moore: right gentlemen let's go for a quick break and after which we're going to talk about Arna Slott leaving Liverpool

40:59I feel fantastic! I feel fantastic! What about the football round on everybody? He shot Philippe Bertetta on the way to his AC Milan medical there.

41:14Didn't record him coming home.

41:16Luke Moore: No. Thanks to... Thanks a friend of the Ramble, Johnny Eggs, for sending us that clip. Cracking stuff, Johnny. You can become a friend of the Ramble too. Search patreon.com forward slash football ramble or click that join button on YouTube to get involved. Shall we do something else now? We shall. Right then, Liverpool, they've done it. They've sacked Arnestlot. He was informed his Liverpool career was over approximately 90 minutes before the club announced their decision at 12.30pm on Saturday.

41:45Jim Campbell: That gives the impression that he's gone, let me just put on a quick match for you now and I'll show you what we're going to do next season. Honestly, I can fix this. I'll give you one more chance to fix it. I can do it. No, they're not answering. No.

41:56Luke Moore: Those players are answering. Was he DJing in IB for or whatever? He got the call, he was like, oh man. All right, all day session it is then. Yeah, he's gone. He was in charge for two seasons. Won the Premier League, lest we forget in that first season. It does feel like people are kind of almost subconsciously forgetting that.

42:13Jim Campbell: I mean, it's It's going to be one of the stranger Premier League winning legacies, isn't it? I think so, yeah. Ranieri? Yeah, but it's kind of... Everyone knows, everyone's going to remember that. You're going to be doing a pub quiz in like 10 years' time and desperately trying to think of who the other manager is who won the Premier League and it will be on the slot. And you'll go, ah, fucking hell. Yeah, I know what you mean.

42:31Luke Moore: Slott said he's leaving the club exactly where it belongs, in fifth place. No, in Europe's elite competition to qualify for the Champions League. He actually, if you read what he said since his sacking it was actually you know I thought it was very fair of the man you know he was full of praise for the club the supporters and it didn't seem like for him there was any hard feelings of course so I mean look an amazing two years for him I mean particularly that first season of course where he comes from the Eredivisie and he's in there to manage one of the biggest clubs you know in the world you would say and win them a Premier League title such a rare and precious thing.

43:13Jim Campbell: Also in really enjoyable style. Yes.

43:16Luke Moore: Yeah. So, but as you say, Luke, you know, very, very odd situation in which he does that and then really, I think everybody thought surely he's going to go. Surprising it took him that long. There are some suggestions, Luke, if we're going to go a little bit conspiracy on this, that some suggesting that Liverpool may have waited for Xabi Alonso to be taken before sacking him because it makes it, because if they do that,

43:42Jim Campbell: then, you know, Well, there was noise that they were never as interested as everyone suggested. I heard since Xavi Alonso decided to extend at Leverkusen, since then Liverpool haven't talked to him. Right. They've not been interested.

43:54Luke Moore: Right, okay. Well, either way, I mean, obviously, formal talks have started with Dona Iriola. But anyway, on the slot though, Luke. To me, it feels like the job just became too big for him, right? And it's not all of it is his fault, of course, because you had that terrible tragedy with Diogo Jota, which would have been difficult for anyone to deal with. And don't forget, there would have been other, obviously players at the club who would have felt much closer to Jota than Slot would, but Slot's the figurehead, Slot's the one who's got to bring them all back together. It's completely shocking that anyone would have to deal with that in a leadership position.

44:27So you've got to understand that. But there are other elements that, to me, just felt that the job just became too big for him. The Salah situation was impossible to manage because Salah's such a big figure, especially given the season he had just had and the fact that he's one of the Premier League and Liverpool's greatest of the players. Very difficult for him to come out of that unharmed, you would say. There's issues around recruitment. Liverpool feels to me that have lent maybe a bit too far into data when it comes to recruitment. They obviously lent massively into data hiring a slot in the first place.

45:01They've run all these numbers. The slot comes out top of this data and he gets the job. and I think those signings with one or two exceptions like Eketike for example have found it either impossible because they've not been fit because of the way they've behaved in the exact situation or they have found it hard to adjust in like Vert's situation obviously improved throughout the season and then there's also massive underperformance by existing players which to me look like especially when you fold it in with how the players seem to have reacted when the news broke that he was leaving, just didn't seem to respect him.

45:37You cannot explain underperformance by players like Canate, I'd say McAllister as well, one or two others.

45:46Jim Campbell: Gravamirch and Gap Post started well, but both kind of dropped off. Yeah, I thought Gravamirch was okay. I think he was as bad as those two. But he had periods where he leveled it. He wasn't as good as he was before, for sure. And then the final thing I would add on that is that he also seemed to turn him into a very technical, unphysical team. who just couldn't defend. So there was all these things going on at the same time and it was impossible for him to manage it. And in the end, they just limped to a Champions League qualification, which is absolutely a minimum requirement when you're defending a Premier League title.

46:19Luke Moore: They benefited from the league not being a little bit of lower quality, you would say. Yeah, but the thing is, that's right. But the counterpoint to that is the league then turned into a style of football which was totally ill-suited to the way Liverpool were playing. But the quality they have, it's going to count at some level, at some point. Do you know what I mean? Like you have a squad like that. Yes, they're not playing well together. You've got some ageing players in there as well. Alisson and Van Dijk.

46:43Jim Campbell: That's part of it. I think, you know, Van Dijk being the age he is at the time that the Premier League has shifted to a far more sort of physical and aerial time or style rather is very unfortunate timing, isn't it? It's not to say that he's not been a brilliant player and his level dipped this season. and I think it might have been a bit overstated how much, but certainly it wasn't the kind of Virgil van Dijk we've seen in the past. I think the timing's bad there, but teams could play through them very, very easily, and that is on slot. It's on slot to find a fix for that, and I suppose his attempts to find a fix for that made them a little bit cagey and a little bit kind of basic, and even then, that's not what you expect when you play Liverpool.

47:25Luke Moore: No, I mean, that's definitely right, Vish, isn't it? that they were soft, you know, for a side for years before under Klopp. And I know under Klopp, you know, they had a season where they finished fifth, didn't they? And they weren't always all guns blazing, but for many seasons, a number of seasons under Klopp, they were. But that midfield robustness and the industry they had in midfield from the various names over the years that went through that team were there. And even that first season under slot, you know, the names that, you know, Jim and Luke have already mentioned, but it was soft at the core.

47:56Luke Moore: the old adage you could get at them was so true to Liverpool this season even Spurs were getting at Anvish at Anvish Spurs I feel like the considering this was a season that he got them ultimately playing the style that he wanted to instill because there were a bit of a hangover from Klopp Salah had one of a kind season where he basically just grabbed games by the scruff of the neck in part because of the motivation to get a new deal to prove to people that he was still as good as he was. I don't think, certainly I didn't see him becoming as much of a problem behind the scenes as he has been this season, but I suppose there were, you know, breadcrumbs there of the way he was going about that new contract last season.

48:41But just to go back to my original point, with the style of play, it felt like Liverpool was constantly on their heels. And it always, I felt like I watched them more running towards their own goal than I did last season. Jim pointed to the fact that they're very easy to play through. McAllister, his form dropped off a cliff. His legs seem to have gone. I remember the first three or four weeks of the Premier League season watching McAllister and going, he's not up to speed yet. He can't be up to speed yet. And it never changed the entire season.

49:13Luke Moore: I don't know whether it's exhaustion of the last couple of seasons. The Jotser thing's quite... If you expand that out, I think we mentioned this a few weeks ago but the way it had a knock-on effect into performance really started in pre-season where they told players to come back when they felt right, they weren't really pushed to get up to speed in the way they normally would say when tapering into a Premier League season I also think with slot and this is purely going by what some Liverpool fans have said, like some Liverpool fans I've spoken to but the disconnect between him and the players in part triggered by or more made more evident by the you know the Salah post on Instagram which all the players liked um it felt like he at times he tried to dial down I suppose how bad things were on the field and then occasionally would you know would almost be a bit too forthcoming and saying like yeah we're not doing this, we're not doing this well, which then extrapolates to, well, the players aren't doing this, the players aren't doing that.

50:23And it sounds like behind the scenes that that was a bit of an issue. Not that he was expressly blaming them, but he was doing so more than, say, Klopp would. Oh, yeah. The clash in personality between him and Klopp was so evident. When I say the job became too big for him, there's too much for him to deal with, and he couldn't get it going. Part of that was the way he dealt with it publicly. Some of the stuff he said was odd, and you came away from it with someone who's at least semi-conversant with what Liverpool's all about and what the Premier League is all about, you come away from it thinking, I don't think you understand this.

50:52It felt a bit like, you know, Roy Hodgson when they draw in the Merseyside derby or whatever and saying, this is the best performance of the season. You can't say that. You can't say that at Liverpool. Liverpool, the standards that are demanded are so high. And what was mad about that entire thing was that the year before, he kind of knew that because they won the league easily. So he should know that by now. It's not like he's just turned up. I've no idea what Liverpool are about. It was a very odd situation towards the end.

51:19Luke Moore: Yeah, and look, Vish has already sort of mentioned this already, but I wonder in seasons to come if, you know, more chat comes out from the players and how they were feeling about the incredibly sad death of Liverpool. Without a doubt. It's obviously a big part. It is a big part of it. So, you know, time will tell if indeed they do talk about that, if indeed they wanted to, you know, but that's a factor. But look, slot's gone. And again, with the passing of time, that season where they won the league, it'll be remembered. The performance of Salah will be remembered as well. And Arnaz Slaught, you know, he delivered them a Premier League trophy.

51:54Luke Moore: So, yes, I get why the club has sacked him and moved him on. I think it's the right thing to do. But, you know, winning a Premier League title with Liverpool, you know, Klopp only managed it once. And I appreciate he was battling against Pete Guardiola. So, again, I'm not saying that, you know, it's just so hard to do. And they did it with real

52:10Jim Campbell: aplomb. I think the really interesting thing about whoever comes in now is the stark difference in circumstances compared to when Slott took over. Absolutely night and day. It looks like a completely different project. Obviously Slott inherits an incredible team and they hit the ground running. Salah has one of the best seasons we've ever seen a player have in the Premier League. He's gone now. Canate's gone. Robertson's gone. Van Dijk and Alisson are aging. They've obviously got Jeremy Jacquet to come in and Giovanni Leone to come back from injury, but they've got a lot of young players in there as well.

52:43Jim Campbell: So it looks like the very, very beginning of a rebuild. And it is a huge, huge job. It's bigger than the job that Slott had when he took over. And it's going to be fascinating to see who comes in and how they approach that. Do you not think that goes for Iriola, though? Yeah, it does. Potentially. I think it totally does. I think it does go for him and I think it will be him. Certainly in terms of managing egos, which is very different in Liverpool compared to how it is at Bournemouth as it would be at any club of that size.

53:10Luke Moore: But it's to his benefit, Iriola, that Salah will move on. Oh, for sure. And some others, you know. But it still requires patience, though. It does. What's fussed about Iriola, right, is that Iriola comes in off the back of who? Gary O 'Neal at Bournemouth? Yeah. And it's terrible for ages. Yeah. It was terrible for like, what, seven, eight, nine weeks or whatever. Nine games? Yeah. And people were like, what's going on here? Yeah. And they all stuck together, of course. And it clearly just took a while for the players to deal with that culture. I love Gary Neal. No one loves Gary Neal more than me.

53:42But that is a culture shift and a style shift, to say the least. And then it clicks and they never look back. Now, what will be interesting is that if that's the same situation, which you'd expect it would be in principle, because Iriola wants to play in a certain way, it's a different way to the way Slott has played. Really, I know that the league position wasn't hugely dissimilar, but the way that Iriola got them playing for a club the size of Bournemouth compared to Liverpool, you'd have to say he's earned the right to take a Liverpool job where he takes it. But will Liverpool and the fan base and the impact, sorry, the kind of footprint the club has, will that better tolerate a similar thing?

54:19Will they better start the season without a win in eight or nine games or whatever if it starts that way? And will they have the temperance to go, okay, well, it happened before, we just got to stick with it. That'll be fascinating as well.

54:28Jim Campbell: This is what I mean when I say they need to be patient because more often than not, managers fail to bridge the gap of a move from a team like Bournemouth to a team like Liverpool, right? I think Areola looks like he's the real deal and that he'd be a good candidate for someone who can actually do that and make a big club like Liverpool successful. But it is still unusual for people to manage that. I wonder if they might look at Oliver Glasner as well because he's shown he can win trophies at a team like that.

54:55Luke Moore: I think it'll be Areola.

54:56Jim Campbell: I think it's very likely.

54:57Luke Moore: Jim, back threes aren't involved. Ruben Amaro has ruined it for people like Rizner. He absolutely has. Even with his little magnet. Oh, you can laugh about now. He laughed back then.

55:07Jim Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll finish those, it's fine. I love you. I actually... You little Reuben Amaroom fridge magnet, remember the bad old days. I actually wanted Iriola at Manchester United. I have no qualms with Carrick taking the job, of course, because he's done brilliantly, but I feel like the way he has lifted players, I think the fact that the way they play as well, that is half the battle of winning people, winning fans over, is showing a bit of progress with a bit of style and panache. I think if Irola does make the move, Bournemouth should change the locks on their ground at the club, change their phone number.

55:47Gonna go back for Alex Scott. I appreciate, you know, they've got a stacked front line, but why not? You go back for Paul Kojewski? Why not? What? Lovely, lovely, lovely. You know, why not ask them what the situation... Well, why not ask Junior Kruppi, Wade, rather play like yeah it's yeah i i think it would be a really great appointment i think um whatever teething problems they there might be you jim the point you made about like a team for a rebuild maybe because of how things have been for with slot particularly the back end of the season there is would be a bit more patience for a bit you know a build up to a quote-unquote final form but i think it's quite exciting i think it's a really sad appointment areola does a rebuild

56:30Jim Campbell: every season anyway every six months every transfer window he's got to do it all again so maybe he's particularly well placed

56:36Luke Moore: he doesn't do it while having Champions League football though no that's for the big boys he also doesn't do it while they're walking alone exactly it means more to Liverpool remember that you wouldn't get it

56:47Jim Campbell: if indeed he does

56:50Luke Moore: I'm not from somewhere so I don't understand it if indeed he does take the job the big story though with this is that it does all mean that Enzo Marescu will be the only bold manager in the Premier League. Well, listen... If he's announced at Man City, which he hasn't actually been. Might give them second thoughts. So far. But we don't know who's taking the Liverpool job. Yep. For sure. And we don't know who's taking the Crystal Palace job. And we don't know who's going to bick their head. I think Steve Parrish needs to have a decent look at what contribution the Palace can be making for bold managers everywhere.

57:19Yeah. There we go. He's been represented. That's enough when he gets you around the table. Exactly. What else have you got?

57:25Luke Moore: Yeah. I mean, the Dice Man's always lurking. An actual bald eagle managing Palace. That would be nice. You know, probably leave on that note. I think we've got to that level of nonsense. Before we go though, I do want to say that former Liverpool man, James Milner, I can't believe I'm actually saying this. He's actually announced his retirement from football. James Milner's not going to be playing professional football anymore. It's a weird, it's going to be difficult for those guys who make their careers just doing stats, isn't it? Yeah. Because they're going to be able to link Milner to every single stat.

57:57somehow. I'm not going to do that anymore. Yeah. You know, James Milner's played with 82 % of all the Premier League players that have ever played the game. Well,

58:03Luke Moore: here's a question for you then. Who's the most recently retired Brighton and the Hove Albion footballer? I don't know. It's James Milner. Yeah, of course it is. Perhaps we'll talk about James Milner a little bit more tomorrow because the career he's had, I think, deserves more than just one or two lines. So do join us tomorrow because we're going to be talking about James Milner. He's thrust his way into the running order. we're going to be talking about Jose Mourinho returning to Real Madrid that's confirmed right Man City hasn't been confirmed if Perez gets another gig on the 7th of June I think it's a bit of I think I think we're talking about tomorrow as you say but I think I think it's I think it's a matter of matter of process

58:43Jim Campbell: there is a sensational detail in there yeah okay fine so that we confirm the 7th but something we do know is happening I think we should all just embrace the fact that you've been able to say in 2026 63 year old Jose Mourinho will be returning to Real Madrid. That is incredible.

58:58Luke Moore: Mourinho's going back to Real Madrid. James Milner's stopped playing football and Anthony Gordon speaking Spanish and a tiny bit of Catalan as well. That was incredible. We're going to be talking about that tomorrow so do join us. Thank you for listening to the Football Ramble part of the ACAS Creator Network. Don't forget to get your World Cup watch party tickets now. Thank you, Luke. Thank you. Thank you, Jim. Thank you. Thank you, Vish. Thank you. And thank you for the memories on a slot.

59:28The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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