The final Nagel in the coffin | 2026 FIFA World Cup

0:00Kill your darlings! Germany are out! The Dutch are out! And Brazil are bastards! Welcome to Football Rumble, it's Tuesday 30th of June, I'm Pete Donaldson. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm David Cartlidge. Scalps! We've had scalps!

0:23Shut up, we don't have time. Too many headlines to get through, Lukey Moore. What did I say yesterday? I want scalps. I want scalps. And I want them on my desks today. And we've got two on our desks today. You get two out of three scalps. Okay, yeah. I mean, too many massive headlines for one short day of college. This is big. This is big. Woo! Yes, we'll start with the Foxborough Gold Hub. Germany and Paraguay, they juked out a one-all draw. They went to penalties after extra time. I say juked it out. It was a very ring-savvy performance from the Paraguayans. We have to say. That's very polite.

0:51Yeah, I think so. Yeah, ex-Brighton Manor at Cesar with a header on the 42nd minute against the runner player and against the better judgment. you might argue. They really did score that goal in spite of themselves, Lukie Ma. I thought that Germany, again, were overall very poor though. I mean, they were poor. They have, I said before during the group stage, they've got the feeling about them of being quite flat-track bully-ish, and like, it's fine to knock over Curacao. You know, we've all knocked back a Curacao or two. This is a track bully to be knocked over though. No, but it wasn't, it wasn't.

1:23Because Paragra were like, well, actually, we're going to resist you. and we're going to stop you doing this and we're going to do our thing and Germany didn't really have any answers for it. I was going to say they were hardly breaking the door down were they not? I mean Paraguay I'd like the ball but yeah yeah I mean it's all well and good I'd like the ball but I mean how many times would Paraguay actually penetrate I don't think very often. I think the fact that Nagelsmann made changes for this game changed his system up and then by the end of it it actually reverted to what he started with and pretty much said it all.

1:49And you can tell Nagelsmann was desperate when he brings Big Nick on because he doesn't like him. Oh yeah. I don't think many Germans will this morning. David, does Julian Nagelsmann fit on your weird little nerd category? Definitely. I think he's one of those coaches, and I've defended him in the past when he was at Bayern Munich and everything, but I think he is one of those coaches that people say they like to sound more intellectual about football than they are. Agree. Agree. My friend messaged yesterday saying that he said in another timeline, Julian Nagelsmann is the assistant manager of a CEX.

2:19Right, okay. Which I can see. He's that much of a nerd. He's a bit of a nerd. He dresses like that, you know. and I mean surely he's going to move on now is he? He must be going to move on. I mean that's just it's got to hit his stock I mean anytime a big job comes up he is linked he's in there in the top three names surely this absolutely smashes his stock and people see through what he is this tactical visionary or whatever this is absolutely a part honestly there's going to be I don't know what the root and branch is in German but I think there's going to be a root and branch after this because I mean that's Russia now knocked out of the group stage Qatar group stage and then they're out here as well first time at the knockouts.

2:55And shout out to Manuel Neuer for doing his bit. He's off again now. Cheers, Manuel. Thanks for popping in. It was like, I dare say it. So he's taking, once again, international retirement. Yeah, because he's out of there. But the lights will go off. There'll be a bong. He'll sit up like The Undertaker. I'm back for one more. One more go. Because they were going to go, Oliver Bowman was the goalkeeper, right, for a while. Yeah, that's right. He got forced his way in. He's old as well. Yeah. You think this is his only chance to play in a World Cup, probably. Is that fair? No, that's absolutely fair.

3:23like, ah, I fancy it. Sorry, mate. And now as soon as shit's gone wrong, he's off again. Yeah, he's one of the old boys. Don't see him for dust. Yeah, he's one of the old boys. I think it's another thing. Nagel's apparently had his favourites. We've just been talking about them. Leroy Sané. Yeah. Why is he there still? Do you know what I mean? I think if Carl hadn't got injured before the tournament, I think Carl would have been starting here. But Sané's just, he's such a bad player. Is it because Nagel's, or Nagel means nail, and he just sort of sticks to his kind of, Nailman. Nailman. He's a man who's just always there Chops are up for grabs.

3:55That's the nil, and he's like a barnacle. That's the final nil in his coffin, I think. That's been the final nargle in his whatever Germany's for coffin. But Paraguay deserve credit because they stuck in there. They were tough to break down. When Habert scored the equaliser in the 54th minute, did you sort of think, oh, well, you know, Germany are going to win this one? I did, because that's the instinctive reaction you think when you're my age and a football fan when it comes to Germany. But, as Dave has already said, they've not been great. You know, they've not been great in tournaments recently.

4:26There's an amazing stat that I saw during the rounds about the last few winners and how poor they've been in the knockout stages since they've won it. Germany haven't been great. They just haven't. And I thought the Curacao game aside, you know, fine. They beat Curacao pretty easily. That's to be expected.

4:47Ecuador basically had their number. Ecuador were good. and they squeaked past the Ivory Coast. It's a poor return for them. It's a poor return for them in the World Cup. They obviously, and rightly so, given the success they've had historically, judged themselves on these tournaments. And again, it's been a very, very poor return. I thought the manner of the goal, I said after the Ecuador game, they seemed so tentative defensively. They seemed so reactive. And you can actually see that from the Paraguay goal. Not very well organized. nowhere near, no one was anywhere near in CISO. No one taking responsibility.

5:24He had the freedom of the penalty. I would just nod a header in from a ball out wide because at corner, I think it was a corner. And that just summed it up. When they score, it's a good header from Havertz and Havertz is good at that type of thing. But after that, it was like pretty, pretty teffid stuff, I thought. Well, the big Sprechen point was very much... Do as much German as you can. Yeah, that's all I've got. I think you should do as much language stuff in different games for different nations involved. I was in a pool on a holiday quite recently. Sarah, my partner, has got a very good German, and I don't speak a single word of it.

5:58But I was in a pool, and I thought I'd remembered the name for sister or brother. And I was talking to, that's the thing where I go to Spain or kind of Greece, a lot of German tourists and stuff. And I thought I'd remembered the word for sister or brother. And I was basically sitting in a pool with a lot of German kids trying to sort of get along with everybody because my daughter was playing with them and stuff. But what I was actually saying was, girlfriend, girlfriend. Girlfriend, will you be my girlfriend? David, Pete is the worst small talk man. I am. You're the worst small talk man ever.

6:31I've never seen someone so out of their depth in just having a conversation. I like big conversations. I like big opinions. Let's get deep. Yes, the big target point was very much the tar goal that was ruled out an extra time. Germany thought they were through, but the referee pulled it back for a foul on the keeper. I think we'd all like to hear from David. David, I'll just... Let me pick David up, put David in a microwave safe ball, turn it on for two minutes. Because so much stuff has happened and because I don't know what day it is because it's the World Cup and my son's getting up at five in the morning every morning.

7:03I actually... Your girlfriend. I feel quite bad about what I just said because I actually completely forgot about that. Well, should you have to be in the next round, David? David, you must have been raging. I mean, as much as I didn't want it to, the goal definitely should have stood. Absolutely. But, wow, absolutely ridiculous. The goalkeeper bought that. Yeah. Purely bought that. I thought it was a camera angle I just wasn't seeing. And from every angle, it just seems to be, and he recovers. He doesn't even appeal at the time. He gets up and almost makes the save. Yeah. There's just nothing in it.

7:35The game's a joke. It's an absolute joke. It really is. The things like that are given. It's ridiculous. There's no one asking for the intervention. There's no one asking for it. And I saw someone this morning, in one of the headlines this morning, I forget it was, saying the worst type of our interventions are the ones where everyone's surprised by it. Surely you can see that there's no need to get involved in that. There's absolutely no need for it. I guess it sends a message that you don't have to appeal for everything because that really stodges the game up, doesn't it? Well, I mean, players shouldn't need to.

8:05I always find it strange that players appeal for offsides. Because obviously it's been now fully automated. you don't need to worry about it just focus on what you're doing it's not cricket you don't have to appeal for a wicket and you're told as a kid as well I was always told play at the whistle every single time exactly I think they are hard done by there there's no question about that ultimately that should have been a goal and one of the things that's come up time and time again I think in this tournament Marcus has been quite hot on it you don't really feel you know which way it's going to go what isn't particularly through this tournament so it's just quite The lines are blurred.

8:41They made a big, you know, hoo-ha about changing rules and bringing these new things in. I think the big problem they've got is that goalkeepers are going to do this more often. Yeah. They can see they can do this on a corner. They can kind of just run into a player and maybe bounce back and they can buy something. Yeah. And I think that's the dangerous precedent that is now set. And goalkeepers are smart. They're going to look at that and go, oh, okay. I don't want to be like too Uncle Albert from Only Fools and Horses about it. But goalkeepers, it used to be part of the remit that you had to be tough.

9:09and you have to come through bodies. You have to have a broken neck in some cases. You don't have to, but it adds to your aura if you do go by. During the war. And crucially, you can also, very obviously, use your fucking hands, which gives you a big advantage. So if you want to pile through a lot of bodies and grab the ball, you're welcome to do that. For about 35 years of me watching football, the 40 years I've been watching football, you were basically allowed to punch players in the head and not get penalised for it. So I don't think you realistically need to be protected any more than you have been.

9:42To me, it felt like it was going the other way. And rightly so. We saw Onana when he was at United get pulled up, I think, for punching a player, being late on the ball. There was a couple earlier this season as well. I forget who it was. And it seemed like it was going the other way. But this is, I mean, this is a nonsense. This is absolutely ridiculous. If it was two outfield players come together in that way, you'd like to think that in a million years that's not being given this advantage. And so Germany will have some regrets on that. But having said that, you know, you have to take into account that they had, by far, the Lions shared a ball.

10:13Lions shared a chance. They are a better team than Paraguay, despite their travails. And they can't hide behind that one decision. Ultimately, even when it went to penalties, I mean, Paraguay did it the hard way. You know, they did it the hard way. And Germany had opportunities there and they didn't take them. So, you know, ultimately, they've got to go home. The other thing about it is that, I don't know how you feel about this, David, but a lot of people were crying out for Dennis Undar to start because he'd come off the bench and he scored three goals. He did start and was abysmal. What the fuck happened to him?

10:45And it's interesting, this is another maybe blot against Nagelsmann, is that he's been saying that Undar is better when coming off the bench. But I think due to the amount of pressure over this decision, he's been forced to start him. So he's kind of lost. I don't know, when a manager loses his ideals like that and he starts switching up, it's always a bad, bad sign. But yeah, Undar did nothing. Like I say, and he reverted at the end. by that end of the game, Nagelsmann reverted to those changes that he started with. Yeah, I think also going back to the goalkeeper chat, the Neuer thing, I don't think he's actually been that good anyway.

11:17And I heard Andy and JJ on OTC talking about the fact that he's not been that convincing. And I think to me, the dynamic of you've got a goalkeeper in situ, these things go in cycles, particularly international football. He's been in there and ready to go. it's a massive call to bring someone like that and he's facing a very criticised ball as well you know what I mean people talking about that's true so do you reckon no because we should have sat down with him and said do you know about this ball have you heard about this ball sunshine yeah it's crazy but the the convincing argument to do that kind of thing would be when it is someone who's still playing at the very top of their game has been brilliant he's not been good he's actually not been good he was I think was it the second Ecuador goal he was all over the place yep so yeah although it's been a very very poor return for Germany it's been it's been a summer that they'll be keen to forget and I mean the penalty shootout itself was even for penalty shootouts it was dramatic dramatic as I said Paraguay did it the hard way right oh yeah absolutely and Paraguay goalkeeper fancies himself as a bit of a lad yeah he wants to be the new Emi Martinez he definitely put Havertz off because he went over to the right with his water bottle left a bit of space yeah and the referee was already holding it up.

12:33So it was a long time for somebody like Havertz who clearly overthinks things in front of goal, to have to think about things. And then just as he was about to run up, he had a little glance to the right and it was like, his head's gone and the keeper got it. But he's a big guy as well. He's like a Donnarumma mould. He's like 6 '6", he just makes the goal look tiny. Well, at first... Unless he's throwing himself on the floor at the slight bit. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that first save was kind of, it was such a, it was an okay height for someone with such a massive wingspan. It's a poor penalty. It's weak.

13:02It's a good height. But you did sort of think like the way that it was kind of his arm was so far away from his body, those kind of saves can look more spectacular, more kind of, you're not fucking getting past me than they need to be. That's right, because as David said, he's got a big wingspan. But I bore everyone to death with this. I just don't understand why people, unless you are, you obviously see the keeper move, you know what to do because you can react quick because you're a professional athlete and you can strike the ball well. Other than that, just fucking smash it as hard as you can.

13:32Just slightly to one side or the other, it's going in. I find it strange. I think the Havertz penalty wasn't necessarily even the height for me, although that wasn't great. It was so weak. The strike was so weak. And I think you look at Jonathan Tarr as well, who obviously, you know, who puts one over the bar. He had a terrible night overall, given what happened. But it's hard to fathom how they can, I mean, we'll talk about Timber's penalty later, but it's hard to fathom how you can strike so far away from the goal when you're so close to it. I said this before the World Cup started, penalties are designed to give the advantage to an attacking player.

14:10That's why they're awarded. So don't throw that advantage away by doing stupid shit. And Jeremy did that. And Paraguay also let them back in a couple of times. They still fucked it up. Yeah, strange. Did you see that the Paraguayan president declared today a national holiday, very much like the Ecuadorian leader? I was going to say. We fucking better get one. If we beat Congo on Wednesday, we better get one Thursday. We do a football podcast, we're going to be here anyway. So we don't get a day off. But I'd like the other people to get it. The people with proper jobs. I think Jim should be allowed a day off because he did predict Germany as underachievers.

14:43And you simply have to say though, at this point, since Germany have failed to win a World Cup knockout game since 2014, you must discount Germany. People keep saying, you can't discount Germany. you can discount Germany repeatedly and they've gussed up the bold mystique has definitely gone but David I find it easy to intellectually forget them emotionally it's hard you see that Lampard goal it didn't go over the line there you go I complained about that one this stat I was talking about is so none of the World Cup winners from 2006 2010 2014 that's Italy Spain Germany respectively have won a knockout match since winning the competition and that's a combined 11 World Cups between them and yet they've got that mistake They've got that fear.

15:26There you go. I mean, I imagine Spain will put that to bed at some point. I think you'd think so. Yeah. Well, Paraguay will play the winner of tonight's game between France and Sweden. Coming up after this, Neymar shares a joke with a boffin.

15:44This next part of the podcast is brought to you by the Train Others in Further Education campaign. Now, if you know someone who is amazing at their job, you know, the sort of person who has mastered their trade, then the chances are they're going to have transferable skills that they could use in other areas. Now, that might mean changing industries, or it could be using those skills to train the next generation. You know what I love? When a footballer embarks on a new career path after their playing days are over, there's some great examples as well, like Arian Dezou becoming a police detective, or Daniel Aga being a tattoo artist, or Mark Viduka now runs a coffee shop.

16:22I want to say somewhere in Croatia or Serbia, somewhere around there. Oh, is that right? So, yes, lovely stuff. Well, I'm glad you think so, because I'm about to put your knowledge to the test, Luke and Jim. Is the answer going to be Mark Voduka? It is. It better not be. It's time to play a game, everybody. Now, for regular listeners, this isn't entirely dissimilar to my biddy aunt, as it's all about career paths, but with a couple of differences. Here, we're going to look at post-playing careers and work backwards. Okay. So I'll start naming jobs and then teams a player has had. You guys just need to let me know when you've worked out who the player is.

16:57Oh, this sounds interesting. Okay, good. So here we go. Name that player. Clue number one. This chap is a business development director at Box3Projects, a commercial construction and fit-out company based in London. So it's not a detective or a tattoo artist. That's not helpful. Got a coffee shot. It's not this, but I'm just going to get it out there just because this guy also had a very interesting post-playing career. I'm going to guess Mathieu Flamini. It's a terrible guess. Yeah, Flamini entered my mind as well. Clue number two. He's a podcast host. It could be Rio Ferdinand, BBC Radio co-commentator slash Sky Sports pundit.

17:39Oh. The plot's thickening. This is tough. It is tough. Of course it's tough. Of course it's tough. So we're going to move into his playing career now. Okay. The last team he played for. was Brighton and Hove Albion. Glenn Murray? Not Glenn Murray. Good answer, though. A really good guess. Second to last club he played for? Stoke City. Glenn Whelan? Not Glenn Whelan. Oh, he didn't play for Brighton, did he? What am I talking about? Yeah, but you're just having a go, mate. Yeah. Third last club? Fulham. Steve Sidwell? Correct! Well done, Jim. Well done, Jimbo. So he's got a job as a business development director as well?

18:14Yeah. Very greedy. Making moves. Very greedy scenes. How do you think his skills as a midfielder, as a steady Eddie in that midfield, as an inexperienced head often in that midfield, how do you think that transferred into his post-playing career? When you think about it, there's a lot of transferable stuff from being a footballer. You know, it's teamwork, it's high pressure situations. Communication. It's communication, it's dedication as well. I honestly think it's, you know, there's a lot of cliches around the fact that footballers don't perhaps finish their education or perhaps aren't quite as intelligent.

18:43I don't know if any of that's true, particularly not these days, but it seems to me that players who have had a decent playing career and have played at the top level, they should be in demand for lots of different trades because the skills are so transferable, I would say. Absolutely, yeah. Certainly in terms of leadership, you expect in some cases. But as you say, there's loads of stuff which are transferable all over the place. And by sharing your skills in further education as well, you can take on a new challenge while staying connected to your current industry. And it's also rewarding because it gives you a chance to try something totally different as well.

19:15I think sometimes it's quite an old-fashioned idea that you come out of school or come out of education and you settle on your career and that's that. But that to me feels like that's a long old time to be doing the same thing, particularly if you're not that into it. So branching out is really important. If you have real-world industry experience, you already have what it takes to be a great further education trainer. If you've ever thought about passing on your knowledge, giving your skills new life and ensuring a strong workforce for tomorrow, training others at your local college could be the perfect next step.

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21:33I can't help. Japan started. Goal! Solid commentary. Yeah, that's very good. From the Japanese team. Shuto. I do like when they say shuto. What was that specific event he was commentating on there? That was the Japanese goal. Well, I went out for a throw. I played golf yesterday. I was paired. Gorofu? Yeah, they sometimes pair you up with random people. That must be uncomfortable. That's fine. Again, I don't mind small talk. And also, I'm so bad at golf. I'm nowhere near anyone else. So I don't see them. But I was paired up with a 70-year-old Korean man called Chris, who spent the majority of the front nine absolutely fucking caning the South Korean manager.

22:19Oh, right. He's super unpopular. At one point, he said to me, and his English was good, but obviously he wasn't a native English speaker. So he had these funny turns of phrase. At one point, we just walked up the fairway talking about the football. and I was talking about the England game coming on Wednesday. And he said, the South Korean manager is very unpopular. And I was like, I know, you already said that. He said, and he just went, I hate him. I love that. Love that. Well, in the Battle of the Bifters, rather fittingly, they played out a long draw. Issa Diop taking the time, extra time on the 91st minute.

22:55It was, once again, we've lost a historical big gun gun. It would have been an absolute disgrace if Neverland had gone through it. Yeah, yeah. They scored that goal. It's an emotional goal for Gatpudder School. We know what he's been through. That was beautiful. I was a bit choked up by that, to be honest with you. That was beautiful. It's a nice moment. And you wouldn't want to deny him it, of course. But Morocco were miles better. But it would have been a complete robbery if Neverland had won that. So it's good that Diop scored to take it to extra time. Because, I mean, the right team went through, basically.

23:28Of course. this Koeman's Netherlands are absolute slop. They are terrible. They are slop. They are prison slop. You know when some slop just gets thrown in a ball. They are literally that in football form. They're not even defensive slop. No, no. They should be quite good at defending because of the personnel they've still got. Yeah. But like, I mean, I said yesterday that Morocco, they're all wrong for Netherlands. You talk about boxers and stuff, you know, stars make fights and everything, types of different styles of boxers being wrong for each other. Morocco are all wrong for Netherlands. They're too dynamic, they're too quick, are too good in transition.

24:00And so it proved, and it would have been a crime if Morocco had been knocked out. I tell you what, they're no soft touch either. No, they're not. They've got a bit of like resilience and steel about them. We're talking about the Germans losing their mistake. Moroccans have gained one. They just look like a tough bunch. They're just like, whatever's thrown at them, I feel like they can come back from. They're building the story, aren't they, in the World Cup? Because it was semi-final last time, you know. It felt like, it just honestly, I mean, this is exaggerating it, but just to give you an idea of the energy I was feeling like, it felt like, the baton of World Cup football was being passed from the old European kind of royalty to a new African kind of dominance.

24:35They were so much better. That goal that Gakpo scored was so against the run of play, it was unbelievable. Yeah, completely out of the blue, it really was. So it was Morocco, like the first half against Brazil when we first saw Morocco in this tournament. I think that was a good indication of what they were going to be about, but they can deal with a bit of adversity as well. And again, they responded to everything really well. And it was interesting, this game, because it really turned into a street fight quite early on because of Van Hek's challenge on Sabari. Van Hek, who you kind of wouldn't expect, maybe, he's flung himself in, and it kind of just set the tone, and everybody just started having to go, I think Masraoui was delivering crunching challenges as well.

25:11Oh, he was brilliant, Masraoui. Oh, excellent. He was really good. He's a bit of an enforcer for this Morocco side, and a really good game from that point of view, and I just thought, all right, at least, because, like I said, the Dutch are an absolute stodge, horrible to watch, so I was glad this happened. And I was like, okay, at least we're going to have a bit of an angle to this game. Well, I think also the way that the game transpired, I actually thought Veghorst was probably their best player. But he mixed it up. He threw himself into everything. He won flick. I mean, he wins the big flick on for the Gatpo goal, I think.

25:36Yeah. He does. He does. He does. Yeah. But to me, going into the game, the stuff Koeman was coming out with, I mean, you said that they're sloped. They are. But Koeman is also, as I said yesterday, he's a fruitcake. He comes out with stuff. His head's in the clouds. He said yesterday, or leading up to the game, oh something like I can't believe we've got to play Morocco so early you might as well just walk into a fight in the school yard I'm really frightened of this I don't want to have this fight even if you win the match you might lose it eventually against Morocco you never know yeah well that's the thing I mean if you take into account like the fact that technically speaking according to whatever court judged it Morocco haven't lost against Senegal right they haven't lost for ages They have not lost for ages.

26:23They're like used to winning. I mean, I will get on board with Koeman to an extent by saying it is an absolute pig of a first knockout game to get. But ultimately, that's what the World Cup's like. You know, you have to get past. I mean, obviously Germany have gone out to Paraguay. There's no guarantee that if you're going to play against somebody who's a bit shit, you're going to win anyway. But it was exactly the wrong tone to set. I also thought that like the goal that Morocco eventually score, Van Dijk gets caught under the ball. He's not judged a flight of it. it's just not vintage Van Dijk at all exactly so like it's pretty bad stuff for them is it kind of indicative of a very European based kind of press and how we sort of judge teams and stuff like it's like you know anti-African kind of bias because we you know we've seen quite a lot of Morocco recently and they've just been nothing but absolutely I think everyone knows Morocco are a good side yeah they got to the semi-fire last yeah but like yeah but everyone still I reckon the betting patterns are still like you know firmly in the pro Dutch camp no I don't know I'd have to have a look.

27:20I think how good Morocco are right now, I don't think anyone said the dark horses. People just literally said, oh, they're a good side. They will have a good tournament. So they skipped the whole dark horses thing. And they are, they're an absolute problem. And again, it's a great day because the Germans and the Dutch are out. Horrible, horrible football, terrible to watch and fair play. And you're on about the African sides as well. Look, the facts are there. They're getting through. There's a lot of the African teams still left. and you know there was a lot of talk I think before the tournament oh why have Europe sorry why have Africa got so many places why have Asia I know Asia are disappointed but look the European teams come on how many have actually been really good with the exception of France I think it's been a really tough a really tough tournament for Europe so far I mean unless you want to kind of discount say Norway who people don't really know what to make of them and they're not normally there and they've got a really good generation at the moment so they might go deeper than certainly than they have in the recent past That would still be a surprise, wouldn't it?

28:19Depending on what their draws were. But if you go for the traditional European powerhouses, Germany are gone, obviously. France have been decent. That's fine. Netherlands are gone. Portugal have been shit. Croatia are older. And I'm really going to do an awful lot, although you may not put it past them. Spain have stuttered a bit. Belgium don't look great. You know, there's so many. I mean, England, again, they've stuttered as well. I mean, England might do something. But it's not been great so far. The teams I've least enjoyed watching are the European teams. Right, yeah. By far. Yeah. Well, did you read that Shaquille Van Persie, son of Robin, is apparently going to be declaring for Morocco pretty soon, which is very exciting.

29:00Brilliant. Why wouldn't you? Well, A, why wouldn't you? And B, I mean, it's a bit late for this World Cup, though. Do it for you, crying out loud. He's trying to get on the plane now. And the production team have reminded us that when Hakim Ziyech declared to play for Morocco, Mark Van Basten called him stupid, stupid boy. So there we go. Have a bit of that. It sounds like the Dutch to be so outspoken, I think. I know, right? But they weren't great. You know, Morocco probably should have won this in normal time. The penalty shoot, I mean, I have to spare a special mention for Quentin Timbers' penalty, which I think was probably, we've seen spectacularly bad penalties where the player stumbles or slips when he plants his foot or whatever.

29:48Or someone tries something, you know, like a little penenka or whatever, and it looks bad. This was, I think, one of the worst struck balls I have seen by a professional player at this level. I cannot believe how badly he struck the ball when about three feet wide. And I know what you're thinking. Yeah, he's probably a bit tired. He wasn't. He came on the 86th minute. He can't have been tired. He cannot have been tired. He shamed the entire Timber family with that penalty. To the point where I actually criticised all the Arsenal fans who make the thing about Arsenal just for being vaguely associated with that family because his brother plays for Arsenal.

30:27It was unforgivably poor. Really poor. Well, Morocco advanced to first co-host Canada in the round of 16. Morocco are going to go deep again, aren't they? They're going to go deep. Yeah, yeah. I think they beat Canada. They'll do Canada over. Come on, Morocco. We'll get that prick mash out. They will have to play... I think they'll have to play... Marsh, Nagelsmann and Koeman out of a job by the end of the tournament. Oh, which job is... That's gonna be a hell of an interview process for a Premier League at Fulham, innit? They've got a new manager! They've just got a new one! I'm gonna be a dyed in the wool Morocco fan the next game, seriously.

31:01They've got... I said they're gonna go deep, but they'll play France in the quarters, I think. If it goes to form, they'll play France in the quarters. That'll be tasty. That'll be tasty on the one, yeah! I'd love Baraka to drag them down to the trenches and really have a shoot out with them. That'd be great. That'd be really good. It's been an interesting ton so far on that mark. Well, the German guru Joachim Clements, 100 % record of predicting the World Cup winner since 2014, has finally come to an end because he also said that Brazil were going to lose their match against Japan as well. And Neymar tweeted after the game, please try again at the next World Cup get back on the horse he says Neymar's not been listening to Don Carlo has he he said if you want to be in this squad you've got to steal off your phone because Neymar also posted a photo I don't think it was during the game but it was around the Japan game of a massive diamond encrusted watch yeah he did and I think it had 286 diamonds this massive watch and I actually googled the numeric significance of 286 and apparently it's a number that refers to being open-minded Who decides that?

32:15I wonder who bought in that one Who decides that? Yeah I don't know, I don't know It's a weird one

32:24This next part of the podcast is brought to you by icons.com the world's leading signed sports memorabilia company icons.com is home to authentic signed memorabilia from football's greatest names including Lionel Messi, Diego Maradona, Pele, Zinedine Zidane, R9, Gaza, Jude Bellingham and many, many more. And every last signature on the icons.com website is guaranteed genuine, so you can be sure you're getting the real deal. Icons.com CEO Dan Jameson joins us now. Dan, you go to some extraordinary lengths to serve the fans and get these pieces of memorabilia signed. What's the most memorable trip that you've had to make?

33:04Oh, man. I mean, we chase footballers all over the globe. So it's a great job to have. We got the license for the Ballon d 'Or. And you have to start collecting all the Ballon d 'Or players, like we had most of them. So the greatest person we had to track down was George Ware. Oh, my goodness. Love that. The reason no one had done it was because he was being the president of Liberia. And also because they couldn't tackle him because he was just taking the ball around people all the time. Yeah, that's it. He was still dribbling. It had just gone on forever. And so, yeah, he invited us. He just lost his election.

33:37So he invited us to Liberia. So we jumped on a plane, took two days to get there, landed in a random airport and were escorted by a gun-toting security man into a compound. So yeah, so we signed sort of Liberian shirts and AC Milan photos of the classic goal. And yeah, and then we kind of flew back, got stuck in Morocco on the way home and eventually collapsed with a Ballon d 'Or signed and a full authenticated product. So that was pretty cool. What is it like then? I mean, it must be quite something when you get the nod. Well, the classic story is pretty much one of my first ever stories. So it's 2009.

34:16We're in Buenos Aires. Oh, now you're talking. Diego Maradona is saying, I can't see you tonight. So what do you do? You go out into Palermo in Argentina and you have a few beers. Midnight, you get a call that Diego will see you now. Ha, nice. You have to drop everything, including your pint, rush back to the hotel, They'll grab the stuff, drive across town and go to his mum's house because they've just finished watching their telly novella. And it's now over. You go into this little house and Diego is in the back room and he goes to one of those beaded curtains and he sort of emerges. This is about quarter to one.

34:59And he's got a big smile on his face. And, yeah, he sits down and starts signing everything. If it was easy, anybody could do it. But, yeah, you try tracking down Diego. go we mentioned authenticity before and you have the the triple lock authentication um and tell us a little bit more about that well uh we introduced it with leo messi just before christmas so essentially what you do is you uh you videotape the entire signing and it's all geolocated and time stamped and so on and what we want to do is show to the customer the exact moment your product is signed. So here is Leo signing your exact product at the exact time in the exact location.

35:42So what we do is we have an NFC, which is just a chip basically, in your product. You can scan it with your phone, comes up with all the authenticity credentials, the photos, the timing, the license, and all those sort of good things. And it basically creates a triangle between the physical product, your phone, and our data records. So it's sort of tripling down on reassuring customers that this stuff is real because authenticity is everything to us and without it we don't have anything we have to prove every day that this stuff was really signed by your heroes and that's why it's worth what it's worth and that's why you go to the great lengths to uh to make sure that's all authentic as you say uh dan a pleasure talking to you i'm sure we could have talked a lot longer about so many stories you've got but thank you for sharing those ones that you did with us absolutely pleasure thanks fellas and enjoy the world cup it's going to be iconic.

36:33Indeed it is. So Jude Bellingham is the latest player to join the collection and to mark this worldwide exclusive, icons.com are running a special competition where you can win a 2026 England shirt signed by Jude Bellingham himself. Just head to icons.com forward slash win, that's icons.com forward slash win and follow the instructions. All you need to do is answer one question for your chance to win this amazing prize. Entries close at the end of June so don't delay. Head to icons.com forward slash win and get involved.

37:09But your beloved Japan are gone, speaking of Brazil. Oh, God. Yeah, the samurai bloody blues. Can you tidy up a tear, David Garland? Can you tidy a tear? I'd love you to do a little kind of matinee type performance. Here's a song I've written about Japan going out the World Cup called Can You Tidy a Tear? Can you tidy a tear? proper Marcus Speller sickener for the Japanese is there a step up from a proper sickener like a coming out of both ends or something kind of I don't know like a norovirus sickener type thing yeah Brazil 2 Japan 1 I mean such such a shame for the Japanese the way they sort of came into the tournament you know the couple of injuries Mitoma Endor obviously wasn't available either and then they lost Kubo and then they we said on the WhatsApp during the match didn't we David like they could have gone on and won this or at least taken it to extra time and penalties if they had a bit more bravery just a bit more of an edge to them just a bit more of an edge it's incredible the progress that Japan have made in a football sense that really has they've got everything they've got physicality now they've obviously they've always had technique best pressing side of the World Cup and they didn't use it they've got their energy industry they've got everything apart from just that belief in killer edge just to finish off games they should have been two or three nil up at half time and I was thinking just don't give Ancelotti a chance to change it while it's still one nil lo and behold brings on Endrick and everything changes the yeah Ancelotti's a bit underrated on that front Ancelotti's basically got a reputation of just being brilliant at dealing with egos and just a little bit hands off the player whisperer you know just keeps things coming but he is actually pretty good at changing stuff he made some interesting moves I mean who would have saw Martinelli kind of playing left centre midfield in that little eight role as well.

38:58Nobody envisioned that. Who would have thought he'd have brought on the hated Hendrick? Which has basically become an internet meme. Yeah, exactly. Hated Hendrick. But, Pete, the biggest regret you must have as a kind of Japan-adjacent football fan. A Japanophile. A Japanophile. Is that they just retreated within themselves. Yeah. Every clear in second half is just a punt up against two of the best centre-backs in the world. Oh, fuck. That's not their strength. It's not their strength. And the thing is, we talked earlier, we talked in the first half about the idea of Germany. To us English football fans of a certain vintage, the idea of Germany is frightening.

39:32But the idea of Brazil to basically 90 % of nations is also frightening. And you cannot tell me Japan at 1-0, Casemiro scores that header, great header. He's great in the air, Casemiro. And I'm pleased he got a goal. He's had a really good season with his head. He keeps adding stuff to his face, so that's probably quite... Are his legs still there? They haven't gone yet. He doesn't need them. ideally he'd just have two other heads on his hips and he'd just use those but the point being at one all you'd fancy the Japanese manager to be like look we can we just reset we can do what we do best against any other team than Brazil the problem is you're playing Brazil in the World Cup it's not just the players it's the kit it's the fucking history it's everything and they retreated so far to themselves I was going crazy watching this game we know enough about Japan we've seen them beat England we've seen them play well we know how they play you guys have mentioned it they were playing completely differently to how they should be playing and it's because they were playing Brazil and it was always it was inevitable they were going to go out as soon as that happened and they were you have to say they were unlucky with the draw anyway just simply because what Brazil represents to a football fan's mind you know we were putting in the mind of all those great Brazil sides of the past last time they were in a knockout stage they played you know they played Croatia recently they played a prime Belgium as well like they do get unlucky at these points but you did sort of feel the way that you sort of saw Brazil set up against say Scotland they didn't have to go through the gears but I did think god they're quite a lethargic slow stodgy midfield but the thing with that though Pete is that Japan if they had beaten Sweden properly they drew with Sweden they'd have won the group and they wouldn't have played Brazil so you know you make your own luck really Moriatsu's been criticised of being just way too conservative and it seemed like...

41:24He even wears a waistcoat. He even wears a waistcoat like Gareth Southgate. Yeah. Gareth Eastgate. Gareth Far Eastgate. Gareth Far Eastgate. He did look... You did sort of feel like the resources that both teams had coming from the bench was completely different. All he could... Moriasky could do was like replace his wingbacks because they were knackered. Do you know what I mean? And they were just... They were just defended in deep and there was just nothing up top and stuff and it just... It was such a bloody shame. He just needed one little outlet. If Kubo was perhaps a little bit fitter, he could have come on.

41:57He could have held the ball up, just drew a few fouls. And everybody could have pushed out. But they just kept getting deeper and deeper and deeper. And it looked like one way of traffic. And like you said, I think he changed his entire right side, didn't he? He made a double sub and he changed his right back and his right winger. And just nothing seemed to give. And Brazil, you kind of felt coming. But yeah, they needed a look. Japan needed a look at who was in those Brazil shirts. And like, this is not a good Brazil team. not at the shirt and the bright yellow are kind of dazzled by as Luke's just said it's the history I think that you talk about that move where he replaced the right hand side at the time I thought that was the right thing to do because as you said they were tired they seemed tired but also I think if you are going to identify a weakness specifically in Brazil I think it's a fullback I do think it's a fullback they've got old fullbacks I don't think they're that great I mean Danilo what is he 34 now no Brazilian kid wants to be a fullback anymore they all want to be wingers and I had an interesting in a discussion with somebody who's Brazilian, and he basically said, look, family and agents are encouraging younger Brazilians to be wingers or attackers, because there's more value, more money for them basically to get a big move to Europe.

43:00Right, yeah, it makes sense, and I just think they're definitely vulnerable, Brazil. They're good going forward, but it's not a vintage Brazil side. The problem is, you've got Ancelotti there, he's obviously done it, been there and done it. He's got that aura as well, which is valuable in that kind of rarefied World Cup, reduced, it's only six weeks or so, you know, if you can dominate the space, Ancelotti can, that's helpful as well. But they can be got at, and that's why it's such a shame. You have to say, though, the Brazil winner was a goal of extreme quality. It was a brilliant goal. And, you know, the tired Japanese centre-back, he gets dragged in, he momentarily loses concentration.

43:37And if you watch the replay back, he takes a step forward. Not because he forgets Martin that he's there, but it's almost like he can't stop himself being drawn slightly to the ball. Gives Martin Lee half a yard. And it's a great finish. And you have to say as well, Suzuki almost saves it. He makes a fucking amazing save earlier in the game. One of the best saves you will ever see. And he almost saves this one again. He almost saves it again. He gets fingers on it. He's a player that gets, you know, there's no two ways to send it. He gets a lot of racist abuse back home. He just does. Because he looks the way he looks.

44:06And it's just, I felt really sorry for him at that point because he has been criticised through this tournament even though he's been pulling off absolutely bloody save. That first segment he made was incredible. He's been their best player at the World Cup. Yeah, I completely agree. But yeah, do you see the Japanese guy in the middle of all the Brazilians doing like a choreographed howl? That's crap. That's just performative little howl. Absolutely pathetic. Cosplaying as a fan. It's a really weird modern phenomenon, that, because ultimately he's doing that down a camera, and if you saw that just through the camera he's filming it on and it was edited a certain way loads of people would think that was authentic and it would possibly go viral right the moment you see someone filming him filming it it shows up the whole thing it's like seeing a behind the scenes in a movie I don't want to fucking see that I don't want to see the camera it's like when Leo DiCaprio clicks into doing The Wolf of Wall Street yeah that's an amazing clip it is like that it is like that but he's convincing because he's a brilliant actor this guy isn't convincing because he's a blue haired fucking performative internet knob when people wear that colour of blue hair I do sort of think your bathroom at your Airbnb is fucked you know what I mean I used to wear hair dye back in the late 90s and what colour?

45:25bright red pillar box red it was and my bath was fucked with dye so he's not getting his deposit back that's all I'm saying enjoy your little social media moment mate because you're not getting your money back if you're going to go blue hair go to the salon at the old ladies get that big thing put over your head mess you haven't got to worry about the mess have you my friend once got my friend once decided he wanted to bleach his hair blonde and he bought the stuff and wanted to do it back home in his bathroom and then about halfway through doing it his older brother who was hard and we were all quite scared of him came home said get out of the bathroom I need to get ready to go out and my mate was like well I can't because I've only had the hair dye in for like an hour I don't fucking care wash it out now they had to wash it out early they got orange it was like a very beautiful tint of greeny gold a lovely plumage lovely plumage yeah well one man who will never dye his hair Pitbull Fireball by Pitbull there's none to die no Fireball by Pitbull was played during the first hydration break which obviously meant that Japan's gone soon after we're a big Pitbull podcast David I don't know if you're familiar no that's fine with me he's got some bangers yeah England haven't chosen any Pitbull for their four official songs as we heard yesterday sadly so they've missed that trick I'm afraid a real shame well Rodrigo who's out at the Well Cup with a cruciate ligament injury, wrote a piece in the Guardian about Karl Ancelotti being a father figure to the team.

46:46You have to say he's a man who just gets you through. And he's got a beautiful three-piece suit. Has Karl lost a lot of weight, by the way? I think he has, because that suit looked a little bit baggy. He looked a lot similar. I think he's lost a lot of weight. I think he's back on the old cigarettes again. Nice. The 70s is a Zen pick. I thought you were going to say the Zen pick. Old school. No, he's on the supermodel diet. Cigarettes and coffee. on court yeah it's Carla on court well Brazil will now be playing Norway or the Ivory Coast in the round of 16 and we'll probably be saying before the next match oh they can be got I am hot under the collar for Norway versus Brazil Norway better be Ivory Coast great to see them I think they've done okay but I would love to see Norway take on Brazil because I think again same way I said with Morocco and Holland I think Norway are all wrong for Brazil I think Haaland can occupy those two centre-backs which is a strength of Brazil's and I think Norway can get a lot of joy as the kids say these days between the lines I'm not bigging myself up because it's not really my style as you know Pete Shringing a violet I said Brazil would squeak through against Japan just like they did against Chile in 2014 I said that Morocco are all wrong for Netherlands I think if Norway beat Ivory Coast I think they might beat Brazil as well that's my take and that's his own fart speaking and they smell delicious tonight at 10pm the big one is France vs Sweden the French team came together to celebrate Jean-Philippe Mateta's birthday on Sunday and they just basically threw towels and napkins at him while he was they brought him out of cake with some sparklers as well yeah but you don't want to be throwing flammable paper goods tableware at somebody next to some fireworks did you notice the table setting by the way there who was at the top of the table who was it of course Kylian Dictator have you seen those memes about Kylian brilliant Kylian's at the top and he's got Dembele next to him oh nice and Elisa has made his way there oh very nice to the left and right of Jesus it's like succession this yeah it's power play isn't it who's manoeuvring into position look I mean 10pm is late when you've got a three year old this is going to be a routine France win isn't it it's going to be annoying yeah I don't think it's an upset I don't sniff an upset here no but your three year old's going to be up causing havoc going mate not till five mate alright alright we'll see we'll see I'm going to let them know about this and when your son's my age mine'll be through all that stuff and I'll be remembering you mate don't worry about it what if what if the manager of Sweden turns up to the dugout in a Stetson come on well what I'd love to have happened I was going to say was the Mateta birthday celebrations it's in like some kind of function room isn't it two cakes get wheeled out with sparklers on and Mateta's asked to say a few words and they start throwing napkins at him.

49:38If you haven't seen the clip, that's basically what happens. What I'd like to have seen happen was as he's making the speech, everyone starts looking over his shoulder. Who's that bursting through the saloon doors? With a toothpick in his mouth. It's Graham Potter saying, do you feel lucky, punk? All you hear is a clop, clop, clop, clop down the corridor of the man in his spurs saying there's a new sheriff in town. Sling your hook, Mateta. I did just punches the chomp right in the no actually swings two six shooters out yeah shoots the chomp dead yeah that's the cake a few times see you tomorrow and walks out that's a tasty meal you got yeah

50:23that's the thing that worried me I think it's not about how good France have been in this tournament and how incredible they are going forward and they can rescue a game out of nowhere a little bit like the Brazilians I suppose but it's just they feel like they might be having a nice time behind the scenes. Who fronts? Yeah, they look happy. Je ne comprends pas. This isn't the French side, I understand. Were you hoping for a strike on a bus? I was hoping for a strike on a bus. Baggage handlers maybe, so I've got baggage handlers. Somebody smashes his face into the cake, gets a fucking skewer through the head by accident.

50:56A farmer turns up with a muck spreader. Gilets on fire. Yeah, yeah. Oh, God, man. It sucks. The Gilles Jeunes. It absolutely sucks. They look like they're having a nice time. Tell you what, though, what might distract them? Listen, they might get past Sweden tonight. Tour de France starts Saturday. That's all I'm saying. They might get distracted. Yeah, but the Tour de France, you never know what's going to happen in the Tour de France. People keep encroaching on the fucking thing and people keep diving over people. David will get distracted because he'll make him think about Dave Brailsfield.

51:24You do know what's going to happen at Tour de France. There's going to be a lot of peds. Yeah. So there you go. Peds and pedestrians all over the place. Right. also tonight Avocos versus Norway that's a Norway win for me that that's a Norway win for me too and Mexico versus Ecuador I cannot wait for this at 2am I'm so excited about this game it's annoyed me that that's on at 2am is that about night feed time for you? no he's sleeping through the night is he? he's a good boy good boy good sleeping babies looks having a nightmare I'll just be off his skin's falling off I'll be on my own in the darkness with a bottle of Modelo basically I think it's a great fixture because Ecuador have been good.

52:05They're robust, aren't they? But Mexico and Mexico City are irresistible. The other hot take I've chucked out there, I'm chucking them out left, right, centre. I told you England will lose in the Azteca. England will get knocked out in the Azteca. I don't think they might get there, mate. They'll beat Congo. They'll beat Congo. I could see them winning in the Azteca and it just been a real unifying moment. But then they've been dehydrated so much from playing it. Yeah, they're desiccated. Yeah, they crawl their way for the next game. They're like a silica gel packet. Yeah, exactly, yeah. All right, then.

52:35Thank you for listening to the Football Rumble, part of the Aircast Creator Network. We'll be back tomorrow for more of this slop. I'll be in... It's not slop. It's Netherlands do slop. Sorry, Netherlands do slop. AI does slop. We do thoughtful football content. Should we rip a fat biff, though, and sort of darity with Morocco? Yeah, but it's got to be like that hard resin you used to get in the 90s. Yeah, Moroccan black. Put it in the microwave for a bit. Yeah. Put a knife through it. Crumble it. let's make fudge brownies a bit of tack we used to call it tack it gets a tack it gets a tack in yes oh yes and we will be live on YouTube as well tomorrow at 11.15 oh previewing England versus the good doctor I'm not on that one that's why I don't know it's happening I think I'm on I think it's my first live football ramble show tomorrow doubt it not based by producer Rory's face doubt that's happening doubt that's happening we'll see how we go yes we'll be back tomorrow say goodbye David goodbye say goodbye Luke goodbye and it's goodbye from whoever the fuck I am

53:42the football ramble is a stack production and part of the Acast Creator Network

53:54there's nothing like the American Express Platinum card. Find out your welcome offer after you apply, which could be as high as 175 ,000 points. Learn more and find out your offer at americanexpress.com slash explorer dash platinum. Terms apply. Before we continue, let me tell you about a show I love listening to. It's The Upshots, a podcast which covers the side of sports that's normally hidden. From drunken dressing room escapades to deep dives into famous sports personalities and their scandalous lives, hosts Jack and Zach look behind the scenes of some of the biggest sports teams and stars.

54:27With the World Cup in full swing, make sure to check out their recent episodes about this year's most scandalous players too. That's the Upshot. Available to watch and listen wherever you get your podcasts.