The Manchester United way

0:00I see a ship in the harbour everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble. Old Trafford was rocking and chaos at AFCON. It's Monday 19th January. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm Jim Campbell.

0:24Ruddy Nora, everybody. Ruddy bloody Nora. The drama in the football world this weekend. We will get to AFCON later in the show. How's your giddy aunt? I don't think I've ever known her that giddy. Did you use the red telephone you've got for an emergency giddy aunt telephone responsibilities when things happen? It's a lovely reference. I imagine she's still just jiggling with all the giddiness. Let's not sexualise it. I'm not the one sexualising that, am I? It's Blue Monday. People can jiggle in a perfectly non-sexual way. Jim, Blue Monday doesn't mean that. It's not a sexual day. Oh dear, I think after that, every aunt in the land was giddy.

1:07Yeah. every African art well I tell you I think the earth axis moved that little bit quicker I think it did so as a result we're doing that at the end we are duty bound to get through a load of Premier League nonsense get out of the way indeed yeah so do bear with us Stuart Foote get out of the way but before we get started I want to remind you that your enjoyment of the Football Ramble doesn't have to be limited to listening to the podcast if you sign up to the Football Ramble WhatsApp channel we'll send you exclusive behind the scenes content straight from Ramble HQ. I promise you'll get to see some of our best work.

1:42No penises will be seen, okay? Well, probably not, no. Yeah. Not these days. Not in today's climate. Until we can involve one of them in some of our best work. Exactly. So no guarantees. Speaking of that, we used to do a little video like that. A little kind of, the video you're kind of talking about that we have on the WhatsApp channel now, we used to do one of those for social media every episode, didn't we? That's right. And I found one in my phone over the weekend in my memories. and it was after Yogi Love did the old scratch and sniff and the video we did was me standing there and Pete scratching my balls and smelling them.

2:14Yeah, Charlie. Yeah, and I realised when I looked on my phone the amount of takes we had to do for that and it involved basically Pete scratching my nuts over 30 times. So who knows what will be seen on there this time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of our best work. Obviously it's probably our very best work. Click the link in the show notes to get involved. We also did one on Valentine's Day where we framed, we staged a UMP having a snog. and me and Jim walking in oh yeah yeah lovely stuff maybe we can do more of that or less of that depending on what the people want love is love you don't know what you're going to get la la la la now I mean I want to clarify that I mean you don't know what you're going to get on the Football Rebel WhatsApp channel not with love no sometimes with love you don't know what you're going to get yeah I suppose so maybe if you kiss Pete you don't know what you're going to get either exactly but you can have a good guess Manchester United 2 Manchester City 0 this was exceptional rolling back the years they really were a bit of Simply Red well Mick Hucknall was a Man United fan as well as we know as we know Michael Carrick's first game in his latest spell as interim head coach of Manchester United resulted in a fine victory some Man United friends supportive friends of mine were saying I've not enjoyed them that much for years I'm not surprised that was sensational I mean they scored five got three with Disallow for offside now that's the rules they shouldn't count.

3:35But they were all marginal. Marginal, exactly. It shows you that, and the point of that is, you know, as you say, it's marginal, so therefore they were breaking the city down and so on and so forth. I mean, this is night and day. Absolute night and day. Do you see that? Playback four, stick Bruno Fernandes in number 10 and you're away. So don't overthink it. Yeah, absolutely. Do not overthink it. Sensational stuff. I said on Friday that essentially they've barely had any time so it's just vibes and my God. The vibes are good. Who knew that Michael Carrick was such a vibes merchant? Well, is it because Vitucian Hantaraja has returned?

4:06Fucking Bruno Mars. Yeah. Bruno Fernandes. Is it because, Jim, that Vish is back in the kingdom? He is back on the show later this week. Yeah. It can't be a coincidence. It just cannot be a coincidence. No, it wouldn't make sense for that to be a coincidence. No, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Because he goes to Australia, England win a test match in Australia for the first time. Yes, they got gubbed. But still, there was a flicker. Not for the first time. First time in a while. Exactly, yeah. I think the stall was set out early, wasn't it? After 10 minutes when Diogo Dallow tried to commit common assault on Jeremy Docky.

4:39Yeah. This is how it's going to go today, lads. And then the stage was set, wasn't it? That was a red card, wasn't it? I don't know. You're not sure? It wasn't forceful, was it? It was high and in a dangerous area on his leg there, wasn't it? I know what you mean, like, in terms of it, even in real time, it doesn't look as forceful as some of those nasty challenges do. They look for any excuse to give that as a red in the back. So it can't have been that bad. Well, they said it was a glancing sort of thing. I mean, Doc, he was lucky it was glancing. But it's dangerous in that area. Alan Shearer was fuming.

5:13He thought it was a red card all day long. Alan Shearer kicked Neil Lennon in the face. Yeah, but that doesn't mean he's incapable of assessing other situations, does it? I was just saying he's a very experienced opinion. It's an experience-based opinion. Yeah, but Alan Shearer wasn't asked his opinion on that particular incident. What do you reckon his opinion would have been? I think at the time he would have probably said, I'm untouchable so sod off but perhaps with retrospect he probably thinks he got lucky not being sent off there but the fact of the matter is he thought on this particular incident that it was a red card I have an enormous amount of sympathy with those who also thought it was a red card I don't I mean I suppose I mean I do care because I like football and I like doing the show but in terms of the actual incident I don't actually have a vested interest in it being a red or not I don't actually care I just thought I mean if it was given as a red it's not going to be overturned if it's given as a booking you know fine I mean it wasn't I don't think it was a massive inflection point on the game surprised okay well look it wasn't given but it was hugely controversial my guess would be a majority of people would think that was a red I think Pugmol will say in about two months time that it should have been a red through Michael Owen feels like one of those through Michael Owen yeah just so no one cares yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah Pugmol it's almost like the Official Secrets Act isn't it you've got what is it 50 years or something like that I think it's not like that Pokemon is two months if and when we're dragged into a war they should get Michael Owen to announce it so I'm just like oh yeah fine it's brilliant I'm not even listening I'm just not taking this in it's so boring it's an act of genius to get Michael Owen to do that show because people just switch off before the end of every sentence they can't engage so yeah they probably should get him to deliver that note you just come away with the sense that something isn't quite right yeah exactly so look that's the red card incident out the way if you guys think it's a red card I'm fine with that fine but really so a lot of people as I say Mad City fans imagine we're quite unhappy with that So we've, you know, that aside, the performance and Kobi Maynou got his first Premier League start of the season.

7:07First start of the season, bearing in mind how badly they've struggled at times. Okay, the points tally isn't dreadful, etc, etc. But the fact is it's his first league start of the season. I mean, David Cartlis suggested that Carrick might try and shoehorn him in when we were talking about this on the Friday show. But he slotted in there. and that midfield of Casemiro Maynou and Bruno Fernandes dare I say a bit of balance incredibly well balanced and also I think a big part of how and why Man United won this game was that they just worked so much harder on City and those three were the engine room of that really they really really kind of set the agenda and it felt like it was going to be one of those games where you know we've seen this sort of thing happen so many times where you know United have a couple of goals ruled out for offside and they're tight offside and you can see they're getting in behind that line but Donnarumma's having a brilliant game and you're thinking this is going to be one of those where they nick a goal or they just craft a goal out of nothing rather than nick one and then City just go on to win it.

8:07But they were never in it. No, well that's it. Those moments never came, did they? They never got a foothold in the game and they were kind of just not sluggish but I think you can see that Man United have had the time off that they've had. There was a freshness to them that not very many teams have at the moment because it's such a fixture pile-up for a huge amount of teams. I mean, United used every advantage they had really, really well, and one of those was freshness. I think when you're playing for a new manager, obviously you're going to get a little bit of that. There's a lot of symptoms of a new manager bounce here, but it was...

8:39Well, because old misery guts has gone and then they've got someone who isn't him. But, you know, also, there is a lot to be said for the simplification of things. When Maynou played, it was his first league start, but he started the game against Brighton alongside Ugarte behind Fernandes, and he was poor, right? He got subbed off. He didn't really do anything. Couldn't get into the game. He's been out a long time. We understand he's a young man as well. And so it still, on one level, looks like an easy win to get the crowd favourite, the youth team prospect, the guy who's exploded onto the scene originally in there.

9:07That gives you a good feel-good factor if you're a Man Utd fan going to the game and seeing him in there because you've been crying out for him. But, you know, you don't automatically know he's going to be great. I think if Casemiro next to him rather than Nugate, who's a tremendously limited player, in my view, in the Premier League, Nugate, makes a difference. but the one thing that was super encouraging for Man United fans wasn't just all the things you guys have said which I agree with it's the nature of the Mbwemo goal the way they scored that was like vintage counter-attacking United like a tribute act to the best Ferguson years right Wayne Rooney said on Match of the Day that that's the Man United DNA that they've been talking about and as you say that was an undeniable facet of Man United's play in the past it was really it did roll back the years wasn't it?

9:53Well I mean it was scintillating as you say the pace of the move and when they've strode forward like that they weren't going to be denied I mean having Bumo and Diallo back from AFCON by the way has given them a lift Oh absolutely massive I understand they've been there earlier in the season as well but that's given them a lift but you're right when that goes in and the ball crashes into the net and the stadium erupts that stadium sounded and felt not that I was there but you could just feel it from the TV and from a lot of accounts from people who were there that it felt and sounded like it did in the years gone by.

10:25One area of the pitch that I want to highlight as well that Manchester United were excellent in, we've talked about the midfield going forward. We were saying how Manchester United didn't really offer anything. One of the reasons for that was how good Man United were at the back. Yeah, Maguire and Martinez. Big old Harry Maguire and Martinez in there. They shepherded Hurling Haaland all day long. I wouldn't blame him totally because it's the rest of the team and we know that he's going to rely on service a lot. But at the back, it is I mean I think it's one game I understand that okay and they've had a few a fair few false dawns in the last handful of years but I think that people may already be saying this but I think given a bit of time I think we'll look at this Amerim period as perhaps the worst the worst one since Ferguson and do you know what part of the reason is because Amerim kept saying that himself since Ferguson you think I thought Ferguson was good actually I thought he did pretty well Amarim is unquestionably.

11:19If you look at all the data, he is the worst man that they've had. But I think the problem was that he kept reinforcing this. And quite clearly, that reaction from the players, you don't get that unless the players are like, thank goodness there's a new regime. I understand Fletcher... But they were fighting here and there under Amarim. Yeah. They'd have a result where we'd sit in here on the Monday and say, they wouldn't have done that if they weren't playing for Amarim. That did happen in one occasion. They got their pride to play. And I understand, you know, Darren Fletcher was in charge for sort of a couple of games.

11:47But okay, Maybe I'm getting a bit too carried away there. Fair enough. No, I think there's an interesting thing happening with Man United and that was actually true for a lot of this season under Amorim as well, which is even though, you know, there's sat six in the table and you expect a lot more of Man United traditionally and historically, they're not the Man United of last season. They're not going to finish anywhere near 15th, are they, clearly? So I think they're underestimated a lot despite, you know, that kind of being reasonable because you expect a Man United team to be challenging for titles and whatnot.

12:18So I think they're actually kind of using that quite well. They're not used to being underdogs. Yeah, I know what you mean. But it is kind of an advantage at the moment. And I also think Martinez is a massive, massive boost having him back. He's a very versatile defender. Well, he is. I think that, you know, Man United in fifth, they're a point off Liverpool in fourth. I don't think they're going to finish above the way Villa have been playing and Man City. They could get into the top four. I mean, the season is a bit mad right now. I understand that that Fulham in 11th, despite losing, they are five points off fourth.

12:51So it is crazy in there. And a positive result and a negative one and whatnot, you can go up and down. With Manchester United under Amerim, though, when all's said and done, quite clearly, that formation wasn't happening. And whatever the reasons for that, you'd glance at other teams who, even Fulham themselves, I've watched Fulham, most of the time it is a back four. Well, sometimes he goes, actually, you know what? We're going to play a 3-4-3 today. We're going to mix it up. And they play quite well. Whatever was happening under Amorim, and much has been said of it, and I don't want to go too much on that.

13:28Luke, you've said it. It was complicated. The players weren't responding to it, and he'd had enough time. Carrick comes in now. Carrick now has a chance of, what has he got, 17 games left or 16 games? 16 games now. No midweek fixtures or anything like that. well, unless it's a Premier League game, of course. He's got time to plan for games. He's got a squad which will be a lot happier within themselves after that performance and what they're capable of. And Carrick himself, I know very few people will be thinking of that. He's got a chance to really show everybody what he can do. And it is almost an audition for the job.

14:04Absolutely. Because if they were to win the majority of those games, it would give the board a bit of a question to answer. They'd also absolutely make a crazy decision to give him it, even though he's not qualified for the job. Well, at the time of recording. But they never said that. He, you know, I mean, they've tried every type of manager anyway. So it's actually, a lot of this stuff's about timing, isn't it? They've tried, he's tried every type of manager, every type of kind of, you know, tactician or, you know, you know, player whisperer type or experienced serial winner. And they've not really.

14:36Like with glasses, they've tried that. Yeah, specs. They've tried specs with specs. You've got a little bike as well now. Have they tried someone like England did when they started Southgate, someone who doesn't really want the job? Well, possibly, I mean, obviously everyone wants a Man Utd job, but Carrick is probably the nearest thing to a Southgate you'd probably get. But look, my point just being that the end of the season, whichever the wrong decision to make is, they will make it because they're terrible at that. So if he wins all the next 16 games, they'll sack him. No, we don't need to.

15:06Whatever it is, they'll do it wrong. Okay, put it this way, right? If they win every single game and they finish second, yeah right they'll sack him Ancelotti comes out of Brazil who would they hire yeah you don't know they've not got a plan no I'm agreeing with you they haven't got a plan I'm agreeing with you can we talk about Man City as well because Man City this was in microcosm the reason that Arsenal are going to win the league this season because Manchester City when it comes down to it they cannot be relied upon it's a weird phenomenon to witness when you're watching Guadalupe as Man City yeah but like they lose a couple of players for injury I mean key centre-backs stuff like that it felt to me for a long time that that never used to matter because whoever used to come along the next cab off the rank would also be brilliant and all of a sudden you'd be thinking right well they're going to be the next whatever or a midfield as a defender or a defender as a midfielder or a full-back now and just so many of them at Old Trafford looked so below parts unbelievable you know you had Max Allain who's been talked about a lot who's taken it to like a duck to water really and he did well against Newcastle he did he struggled you know Semenya couldn't get in the game Foden got dragged up Harland was quiet I mean by his own standards Harland has been super quiet I think he's one goal in his last seven in all competitions when you're scoring at the rate that he normally does that is worthy of you know worthy of conversation so and also we've seen that he is so dominant for them in goals if he doesn't score them it's not like Arsenal who share it around it's very very they're very reliant on him so this was this was you know we're going to get too ahead of ourselves but Manchester City Aston Villa and Liverpool Liverpool you've given the wildest outside chance of doing anything in terms of the league title this season you're only giving them the respect to the fact that they're champions and they've shown they can do it right I mean 14 points off the top but I okay they fluffed their lines Villa have fluffed their lines twice now when it really matters yeah yeah I mean they have I mean I think they've probably but if Villa are in a title race end of January then you're kind of thinking they're probably slightly overreached bearing in mind the spell you've already just said that the league's crazy yeah the point being the two big the two big moments for Villa this season if you are going to talk about them as title contenders if you don't want to talk about them as it's up to you but if you are it's the Arsenal game and it's the game last night yeah that was a huge let off for Arsenal that we'll come to I think another thing with City as well is that Rodri isn't back up to speed yet so you're not getting the performances from him I don't know how many how many more examples that one has to have not that you're saying this Jim but you know just to remind I've been saying this for a while Guardiola his Midas touch is not there anymore and I remember Jonathan Wilson making the point once we think that managers when they you know when they really get into their stride however old that is we think they go on and on and on and on he said is it a thing that manager like a player a top level player might have say 10 years at the very top of the game which is a phenomenal achievement if you think about the ages and what it'll be a few years more for some it would be a few years less and obviously the majority of players don't get to the very, very, very top because by definition few do.

18:16Hence it's the top. He said, why would it be different for managers? And I think with Guardiola, you know, again, you always have to say, well, I always feel like I have to say this, his contribution to the game is second to none. Yeah. And his time in the sun has been longer than most. No one's immune to it, right? You know, if somebody had the belief that he's the greatest manager of all time, I don't think it's an unreasonable opinion. He's in the conversation. But he is, without a doubt, very, very much in that conversation. But what they're doing at Man City, the signing of some of these players, because Donnarumma's not really a classic sort of Guardiola player.

18:49Is Semenya or is Cherky or whoever you want to scrutinise. I think it's because he's trying to have a rebuild and to rebuild what you did once the empire has crumbled, you can never really get it back. You can get back to a good position. You can get back to a good football team. Isn't it about that? I'm not saying it's a disaster. But as you said, Luke, the reason why, one of the reasons why I think Arsenal will win the league is because you can't trust Manchester City. Totally. And I mean, you know, Arsenal should have been really nine points clear. They're seven points clear. And I know people were saying, oh, well, Arsenal, same old, same old Arsenal.

19:22But don't worry, Lance, it's not the same old Man City. The lead is extended despite that. Exactly. Can I just come back on the Rodri thing because I want to defend him a bit. I know he made that mistake, but if you look at, given how long he's been out, you look how many completed passes Rodri did away from home against Man United do you know what the number is? 108 wow right he's doing everything he's supposed to do it's the players around him if Rodri is playing in the centre of the park and completing 108 passes in one game of football away from home you should have a good platform it's not his fault yeah exactly so I think he picks up a book and he makes that mistake he's clearly not at the Ballon d 'Or level we've seen him at but you'd understand that I don't think he's to blame for what happened at the weekend no no no I think it's just a factor and he's a player where you think he's extremely likely to get back to a very high level.

20:12Yeah, and the acquisition of Gay, we'll talk about that in the context of Crystal Palace in a bit. That's an interesting one. But clearly, they are thinking, right, we need something at the back there because we've had injuries and whatnot. Get one of the finest centre-halves in the league and, you know, they're plugging gaps. This is not how Guardiola would normally do things. Yes, they would sign great players but they would sign players and we think, oh, there's a bit of a chat about him and Guardiola again. As soon as he started training, sooner or later boom suddenly they're a world Rodri's a great example because he came in towards the end of Fernandinho's time in that same role so he was already there when Fernandinho left and it's just a seamless transition but you're right this feels very different from that yeah indeed it does Sir Alex Ferguson was watching the game from the stands that was nice to see wasn't it Luke?

20:53yeah it's always the same do you feel do you think he filled the fridge with milk? that's where his performance came from so I have a you know a theory on this and it does involve Sir Alex Ferguson's teat once again good always great because I I suspect that because it was so miserable under Amarim I think maybe he shunned the teat and the other managers there was a little bit of a suckle here and there and they got a little bit but it wasn't quite enough and so on Carrick's clearly had an enormous suck which will probably affect the quality of the milk right well I would have thought so but so for a while no one was no one was so I think it goes there's a spectrum right I think you've got Amarim over here who's refusing to acknowledge the teat hence the quotes hence the because people said he shunned the history and the character of the club.

21:37Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it has to be. But the Spetscher runs all the way across, so you've got Amrim there refusing to acknowledge the team. We all know who's the other side. Solskjaer's on the knob. Of course he is. He's on the cock, Solskjaer. You're not getting any milk there. Wow. Maybe not these days. Carrick's probably having a good old suckle on him. Well, I think Carrick thought, okay. Because I saw before the game, when the camera shows them turning up, getting off the bus or whatever, I saw Ferguson turn up and he had Carrick over his shoulder with a little muslin clob and he was just burping him on his shoulder little milk with stuff yeah he knew he was sucking on him so that's probably going to be part of it yeah well if the reserves are plentiful then more of this I think we could see from Carrick and his band of very merry men after what was a sensationally good Manchester United performance and really 2-0 flat in Man City but we've spoken about that little mention for Arsenal Drew 0-0 with Forrest ultimately disappointing Should they have had a penalty?

22:34There was a bit of chat about that. So I watched this game in a noisy pub with bad sight lines. When I first saw it, I thought, oh yeah, surely that's a handball because it looked like he'd essentially just kind of cushioned the ball and kept it in with his arm. And then when I saw a bit more, saw a sort of better angle of it, there is a push into Einer and the rule is in place, isn't it, about the natural position and all that stuff. and I was like, yeah, those caveats are enough for me to think that this isn't as clear cut as it first appeared to me. Luke, do you agree with Sean Dyche when he says you might as well cancel football if you're going to give that?

23:11It's annoying. You're going to agree with him. Because I think when you see Sean Dyche walking up to a little pedestal at the side of the pitch after the game with a grin on his face on telly, your heart just fucking sinks. What's he going to come up with now? But I do agree with him on this. I think I have a dog in this fight. I don't particularly care about Arsenal or Forest. but I don't think we want to see penalties given for that, do we? No, it's not like it's a slap off the line, is it? No, if that's what handball is now, I think it's a little bit of a shame. That's not the story for me.

23:40I mean, the Martinelli miss is the one that sticks in my mind. That was a kind of surrealist expression of a shot, which was extremely frustrating. I wish he'd done that against Pompey. Yeah, I mean... Well, he did. Still managed to have himself a throw, didn't he? It's a similar one against Pompey, wasn't it, actually? but yeah it was a day of missed chances for Arsenal which I think is the narrative there but I think you know what people are talking about whether this is you know this is a great standard Pete's famous a few times now he doesn't think the league's that good and you know Marcus has said today you know fairly there's a team down in 11th who are only a handful of points off of 4th or whatever right that's Fulham by the way it is Fulham and they lost don't forget him yeah but ultimately you know Arsenal could get up around 90 points this season yeah right that's great it's about being consistent yeah and I think in a way draw against a team who are fighting really hard and us will need to be able to deal with the idea now as well by the way particularly with a Sean Dyche type team you'll come into town it's going to be like a very very big game for the team you're coming to the fans are going to be up for it you're going to have to work hard to break teams down Liverpool found it Liverpool haven't beaten the promoted teams at home for the first time in like 45 years or something because these teams really want to set up to make it hard for you.

24:56You know what it reminds me of? This is a stretch, but you'll like it. When Portsmouth were in League Two. It is a stretch. Massive team to be in League Two. And every single game was a total grind because you'd have teams, small teams, you'd be like, right, great, Pompey are coming. We're going to have to make it difficult for them. They fought so hard for so many years to get out of League Two. And when you're trying to win a league, it's a bit like that. When you're the standout team in the league, these teams aren't going to roll over for you. So I don't think an away point is a bad thing, generally in the Premier League, unless you're playing someone who's historically bad.

25:25Was this the weekend that Arsenal threw away the league title when they went seven points clear? That seems to be how people are framing it. That is the mad narrative, isn't it? They put a point on Villa and City. Yeah, but it's just because of how the last three seasons have gone. And this will be the narrative right until the end. And that is something they have to live with. And I think, to be fair, they are dealing with fairly well. I'm really surprised. I think it's probably because he scored the other day. I'm really surprised that he's not just throwing Havertz in as soon as he can. Arteta loves Havertz.

25:50It's got to be a fitness thing. It's got to be. has to be Giocares and that breakaway that did not look good the optics of that were very very poor leave big Vic alone he's suffered enough well anyway Arsenal seven points clear when all said and done now coming up after this is Thomas Frank's time up at Tottenham Hotspur

26:17what's your favourite thing to do together what time is this show going out past the water shed shagging that was James Tarkovsky on Married to the Game thanks to Friend of the Ramble for sending us that clip you can become a Friend of the Ramble too search patreon.com forward slash football ramble or click that join button on YouTube to get involved Spurs 1 West Ham United 2 can I sum it all up from Spurs' point of view by simply just going oof yeah my favourite takeaway from this game is that El Sacico West Ham fans were shocked at how toxic the atmosphere was West Ham fans something isn't it so about now was when the news came through that Ruben Amarin was sacked the other week wasn't it so I hope the producers got their eyes on the news feed because Frank could go any minute I just checked it and Frank expected to take charge of Spurs against Dortmund is what they're going with at the moment and it's bad to see how it gets much worse.

27:20Bloody hell. His vibes are impeccably poor. The team are dreadful. Yes, they've had injuries. The club's vibes. Yeah, yeah. I think that's the thing. I wonder if, you know, Frank will go at some point, whether that's in 10 minutes or... I said last week he'll go this week. I think he will go this week. Yeah, I do too. Yeah, I think that... Some of the reports are saying that he's still, on the day-to-day, quite liked around the club. Again, his personal skills are apparently very good. We saw that at Brentford and so on and so forth. This is clearly too big a ship for him to turn around. And the job's got away from him.

27:52Totally. Within itself, I wonder who could turn this ship around. Luke's made that point time and time again. They could, maybe they could have done with a former player. So when Man United sack Michael Carrick, maybe Spurs can get him in to see what his vibes are like. But you know, this is, this is incredibly bad at Tottenham Hotspur. I mean, Tim Sherwood, former Spurs man himself, of course, labelled the game El Saccico. Which is not his joke. No. It isn't his joke. and that's all we're going to mention of Tim Sherwood, of course. The board have already met over Thomas Frank's future at the club.

28:24As I say, at the time of recording, he is expected to take charge of Dortmund. That perhaps is because they haven't found a suitable replacement yet. Because he is the old dead man walking, isn't he? Yeah, I mean, and he's demonstrably not done a good job there, but I think they find themselves as a club in a really odd position at the moment because it's difficult to know what a realistic and reasonable expectation of Spurs' season is, right? Because obviously they're a Champions League team, but they're also a team who finished 17th last season, which is such a unique set of circumstances. And they've spent a lot of money, but not really on their top targets.

29:01And that kind of means that some of them haven't really hit the ground running because perhaps they weren't what was identified as being the perfect fit for the team. And then you've got a manager who's come in from a set of circumstances where everything is geared around him and tailored to them and the expectation has been you know very very different and they've grown into the situation they're in Spurs are expected to go in and do something now with a squad that finished 17th and yet is in the Champions League and has some awkward fits coming in so what is a reasonable expectation of how that season goes for a team in those circumstances if you take the name away and you take you know if you look at that blind and you look at those those circumstances like is it mid-table is it that you you know you stay in the Champions League and you kind of take advantage of that situation?

29:47Is it that the Champions League is going to be too much for you and you finish really low again? It's so difficult to call that. Yeah, I think what's interesting about that stuff is that if you saw the CEO's statement last week ahead of the West Ham game, he kind of did an open letter to the fans where he talked about different areas of the club and quite a lot of it was focused on chance for what he called a genuine reset and how we do things, right? Focusing on sporting success. So what he's clearly saying there is in the past we focused perhaps under Levy on commercial success, the stadium, this kind of stuff.

30:20Now we want to focus on sporting success and that's going to demand a reset. And of course you've seen Paratici goes and other staff coming in behind the scenes. They've got a lot of staff spurs actually, sporting directors, all the rest of it. The problem is, of course, what undermines that is you guys appointed this manager and he's been terrible. Didn't you just do a reset? Yeah, just after that statement, no. They lose a game at home to one of the worst teams in the league and nothing seems like it's going to be changing. And of course, in football, at clubs of that size, but indeed at every club, the success stems from what the players actually do on the pitch.

30:54So the whole thing rings. It's actually quite a decent statement. It talks about academy staff, players coming in, sporting success, but it's completely undermined instantly because Thomas Frank is serving up such terrible football and such terrible results. And to your question, Jim, what does success look like for them amid quite a confused picture, which I agree with, the short and easy answer is just not this yeah absolutely it has to be better the answer is better than that for sure that's the only clear thing if they're playing great football well you know Rando Colomwani who is you know played in the World Cup final 90 million pound player whatever is banging goals in but they're losing 4-3 and everyone's having a lovely old time and they can't wait to get up and tell their family what a great afternoon they've had we'll win next time we lost 4-3 it's kind of different it's a bit of something isn't it yeah but it's nothing here and there's no pattern of play there's no progression in how they play.

31:45They've got no ball carriers as I keep saying. They signed Conor Gallagher. I was harsh about the Gallagher signing last week. I get it. I get that he's potentially a future captain. I get that he's all action. I get that he's only still pretty young for his experience and he could be a really impactful player for Spurs. I can even bend my head around and think he's actually a bit of a Spurs player as far as I understand what that means. But he's not a player they need now. The player they need now is someone who can carry the ball and they need to get over this injury thing and they need to work out how they do it because the way that they clearly run their operations behind the scenes when it comes to looking after players is way, way below standard.

32:22And actually, I had a little chuckle to myself because I saw on the commentary of this game, within about two minutes, Gallagher had hit the deck with a clash of heads. And I thought, oh God, because Burfield had one earlier in the season, a concussion. He was out for a few weeks. That was very close to him being, for the first time in his entire career, instantly out of a game injured. Well, I was about to say, maybe that is their... It's a fucking curse. Maybe that is their way of trying to circumnavigate the injuries is we'll just buy players who never get injured. But in short, just to finish, in short, they have to move past Frank as soon as possible.

32:53It's not been the right fit. You said it yourself. The club's got away from him. They have to appoint someone better. Did you see that just days ago they were being linked with Brahim Diaz? That's all it takes. That's all it takes. But to West Ham's credit, by the way, West Ham got in there early. They scored first. Somerville's looked good. Yeah. the deflected goal was pretty no I know but he's added a bit of something obviously he's been injured for bits of this season I mean he's been someone I think he's had a fair bit of criticism from West Ham fans for looking quite impressive and ultimately coming up short with any end product but he's got a few goals recently so fair play to him I mean the reason why he's coming from criticism is because he is currently a West Ham United player sure and therefore but he's also I think he's one of those players where people on the outside and I'm probably guilty of this myself go oh yeah he's got something about him no you're right but then they're like no we watch him every week he absolutely does not but he obviously has started to add some goals.

33:43So ultimately, Jim was right there. I think you're the last laugh. Yeah, absolutely. But West Ham out-fought Spurs in every department. And they're always going to do that against Tottenham because it's a game they really, really want to win. Spurs nicked themselves and put their own blood in the water. But it's West Ham's first, what is it, their first win in 12 league games. They nicked a win for the first time since the middle of November in the league by scoring a winner in the 93rd minute from a goal-mouse scramble from a player who's already announced he doesn't want to be at the club anymore.

34:13They haven't figured out exactly how to cancel his contract yet, but they are going to. I mean, it is unbelievable. A little part of a gift for you. Well, it's unbelievable how they can find new loads. He's absolutely wiped his knob on Spurs' curtains on the way up. That's what he's done. He has. He absolutely has. That's what I think of you at your new stadium. Lovely curtains, though. Yeah, some of the finest curtains. The curtains are brilliant. Those curtains can really allow Spurs to compete financially for the years to come. And you know, in America, the NFL love those curtains. They do.

34:43They get their own dedicated curtains in the possession room. They do. But look, they find new ways of getting, if you like, new lows at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. It is unbelievable. Essentially of disappointing their own fans. Well, sure. So since the 21st of April, Nuno's Spurs has won the same number of Premier League games at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium as Spurs themselves, which is two. Yeah. That is... It's damning. It speaks for itself. Isn't it something like, I was trying to find the stat here, I might get this wrong, but it's something like four wins in 24 games at home. It is a lovely stadium though.

35:20It's a lovely environment with which to get turned over on your own patch over and over again. Yes, exactly, yeah. The Lilywhites just have to make that a terrifying fortress. They do. No one should want to face the Lilywhites. Did you see? No. Do us a bit early for this. It should strike fear into the opponent. Yeah, we're playing the Lilywhites and they've got a big cock somewhere on the stadium. West Ham's relegation rivals Burnley drew one all away at Anfield which was a great point. Yeah, I mean, but it's, I think you look at this and you just think obviously Liverpool have a lot of problems some of which appear to be bafflingly self-inflicted but also they are having in capitals one of those seasons aren't they?

36:02Just one of those games where the opposition have one meaningful chance and they score it. Marcus Edwards is a good player, by the way. Well, it's always lovely to have a Marcus in there. Yeah, I agree. That's why I said it. He took it. Thank you. He took his goal. Well, I know what you're saying there, Jim, but they're getting a bit fed up at Anfield at the moment. They were booze at the end. Yeah, how pedestrian the football is. You're talking about them being a bit boring and so on. What Slott's done, of course, is since they had that very odd run of results where they were losing and so on, he's tightened them up and he's made them more difficult to beat.

36:35They haven't lost for ages. No, they haven't. But they haven't really expressed themselves. They've not been entertaining in that title. Fine, but I actually don't agree with that in this Burnley game. So the criticism you level at Liverpool in these games that they've not won, that they should have won, so perhaps the Fulham game, maybe, certainly the Leeds game, and for what I drew 0-0. The criticism that's leveled at them, I think, fairly, is that the build-up play is too ponderous. It's too slow. It's too predictable. teams can get back in and defend it I don't actually think this was the case against Burnley but the point I was going to make though if I may against Burnley is the problem with Liverpool at the moment is they'll have periods of the game where they're just not in control so if you're going to have a ponderous build up and all that kind of stuff I suspect that is designed to keep control of it right Burnley had a period of the game and you know when you say well they won chance well they actually created more than that Burnley for a period of that game were on top yeah but they had one shot target yeah yeah but they scored it and they created more But the diversion from the general criticism of Liverpool, I think, doesn't apply.

37:39It just doesn't apply to this game. Liverpool had 32 shots in this game. Sure. And they missed that penalty as well. And they missed the penalty, yeah. But those patches of play, conceding those patches of play, Burnley were good for their equaliser. That's the point. Okay, fine. They then respond. And I take your point, Luke, that they've played that game. I'm just thinking on the other day, it's 4-5-1. That's kind of what I mean. On this specific game, on this specific game, Liverpool's XG was 2.96, Burnley's was 0.4. Now, I know it's a flawed model, but I think it does tell that story. Well, okay.

38:09But, sure. But, well, we can argue that... Overall, you're correct. I think overall, what you're telling is absolutely right. They're trying to sure it up. They're trying to maintain control in games because they don't trust themselves and they're having one of those... All the stuff you said is fine. I just don't think it applies to the Burnley game. Okay. I think they have a penalty early, they hit the bar. If that goes in, you know, fan dabby dozy, it's party time, right? It's not party time partly because of what you said, but ultimately I think it was just one of those games. Sure, but four draws in a row in the Premier League.

38:37Sure, that's not a coincidence. I get that. Two draws in a row for Burnley though. I mean, they are eight points from safety, so yeah. Showing Andrew how to play three at the back and get a result. But I was pleased for Burnley because whatever happens this season, that's a result and a performance that you can hang out on. A point away at Anfield is a lovely old job for them. They're at home to top them next as well, so they'll have an eye on that. Top the Thomas Frank farewell game. this is where the draws end Burnley the final indignity they'll probably release a DVD called the final indignity yeah indeed we know the Wolves voucher is gone now hasn't it it's expired is it a Spurs voucher washed in the post could be a Spurs voucher washed in the post washed in the wash because we thought it was a West Ham voucher I'm pleased you brought that up because I'm genuinely pissed off that I spent two hours watching that Wolves-Newcastle game yesterday it was fucking appalling I thought it might be interesting partly because Newcastle are a little bit unpredictable in the league and Wolves have been very improved I thought we actually I was thinking I might see a Wolves win here I definitely want to watch it give them their credit it was one of the worst games I've ever seen sorry about that terrible coming up after this is Oliver Glasner trying to get sacked by Crystal Palace

39:52Sunderland 2 Crystal Palace 1 Sunderland came back from a goal down to beat poor old Palace some lovely goals in this game Brian Broglie's winner was a nice finish. Jeremy Pino with a delightful goal. He'll do that. He will do that. Such a little deft toucher. As was Broby's as well. He had a lot of criticism after the Macclesfield game. Pino didn't he? So he owes them that, I think. I know he scored the free kick in the game, but he was a bit of a lightning rod after it. So yeah, that's welcome. Another loss. Another 2-1 loss with Pino scoring what ultimately was a consolation. There you go. Everyone's happy.

40:30I had a chat about Mark Gay around that Macclesfield game. I found that really interesting. Or when he was chatting to the fans after? No, no. Apparently, before the game... He was like, do you think I should go Liverpool or Man City? Yeah, yeah. Where would you like me to go? He went to the Macclesfield dressing room. Sorry to direct your team talk, but I've got a bit of a dilemma. To be honest with you, if we can finish fourth, Liverpool are more our rivals this season. If you go to Man City... Yeah. No, I was reading. It only came out a few days after the game. It might have been the Macclesfield captain, certainly one of the Macclesfield players, said that they bumped into Mark Gahey and asked him, just the general stuff, is the pitcher right for you?

41:06You're happy or anything? And apparently Gahey was like, don't like this pitch. Do not like this pitch. Not very happy about playing on this pitch. And actually really, and the player went straight, he claims, he went straight back into the Maxwell dressing room and just told them all. And they were like, they don't fucking fancy it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's going to understand with a fake pitch. If that's true, and Crystal Palace fans won't have a problem with this because he's about to fuck off anyway. but if that's true I just think that's quite an extraordinary thing in retrospect quite an arrogant thing actually to say ahead of a game yeah I know what you mean where you're the captain of the club and you're supposed to be you know I just think that was a really strange thing well yeah indeed you've got to be statesman like you're like well whatever we've got to play on that we're all playing on the same pitch lads exactly we're all playing on the same one we are a Premier League side we should be okay today but yeah they lost that they lost this one what a week or two for Palace it's been oh my goodness I mean it's funny how football can kick you down they've reverted to type they were saying a lot of Palace fans yeah a lot of fans of various clubs think they're always going to come out come out the wrong side of things don't they well just because most clubs do that's the reality of it but this is a spectacular concentration of it though isn't it it is I think so yeah out of the cups and I mean out of the FA Cup is a mild way of putting it of course one of the greatest on the end of the worst upset of all time arguably and then losing your manager and one of your very very best players after you've already lost one in the summer and Jean-Philippe Mateta also seems to be in the shop window yes at the time of recording Glasner's still Crystal Palace manager again another thing we need to say but they could be in a situation where inside a year from that FA Cup win or around a year they've lost their best attacking player their striker their best defender and their manager yeah yeah it's crazy I mean and it's it's a signal you know Glasner's comments were you know there for everybody to see him and he said you know your heart gets torn out twice in a season one day before a big game it's tough to survive and that's how it feels we feel that we are being abandoned with no support obviously that was in the context of Mark Gay going a day before the Sunderland game which presumably they would have trained and he would have been a part of those plans but also it's because he didn't make a sub he felt he couldn't because essentially the bench was full of youth players and that's what he's talking about isn't he saying you know we've been abandoned 12 or 13 players in the squad no support and that's massive and he also said that some players have played 35 games already this season.

43:28Glasner is very aware that Crystal Palace this season have found themselves in a position where they're playing European football. They are among the favourites for the Europa Conference League that they can, and one might argue should as much as one can argue that, win that competition. You win that competition, you're in Europa League. A bit of assumption there, I understand. In the Premier League, it's up for grabs. I understand that they've dropped off. They haven't won in the last six and they're on 28 points, which means they're seven points off fifth, right? The way they've been playing, the way they've been going, fans get a little bit annoyed when you have a little flicker of a chance to kick on.

44:07It's very, very difficult to do that. I understand. And you've got no God-given right to be a mid-table Premier League side. I know that as a Fulham fan. Palace fans will know that about their club as well. They've been up and down a bit over the years. So for them to have won the Ever Cup, the first major trophy in their history, to suddenly have this kind of season, you're like, bloody hell. it just looks like what Glasner's saying and what I'd imagine some of those fans are feeling as we've just chucked it all the way. And the sale of Gay, that to me, in the context of it, to me it feels a little bit unambitious.

44:40And the reason I say that is if you sell him last summer, say, and you get a huge fee, you know, previous window, Newcastle United win for him for what, 65 million? Something around that. I understand for a club, Palace's size, 65 million is not to be sniffed at. So one has to have a foot in reality without getting too misty-eyed and romantic about everything. They sell Eza. So that was the cash cow. This stage in the season, I just wonder why you're going to sell gay. People say, but you've got the cash in hand. Well, okay. But you've also got a chance to finish the season. Each place in the Premier League is worth money.

45:17I understand it's not worth 20 million quid, but you've got that going on. You could win the Europa Conference League. that is a very distinct possibility you're then into European football the following season a bigger competition which arguably they should have been in this season you've got all that it's a gamble of course it is but keep him for my money keep him because go for that and if you don't you go do you know what we gave everything and I think especially fans like Palace fans they'd understand that now it feels like oh yeah bollocks we might as well just get as much as we can and revert to it all ambition is not for us totally yeah I mean I'm no expert on Palace's finances I'm no expert on my own finances but I think the point you make about the prize money is a good one because 20 million pounds for Mark Gay plus add-ons and all that I understand but still sure but it is low given that element of risk because you're right as well like if they're going to have a proper tilt at winning the conference league which so far they're doing a terrible job of you need him in there or you need you can't you can't realistically get more than that from giving the contract situation though and you also which I think means you wait to the summer yeah I do but you also don't know whether and we had this conversation Marcus you and I about Pakita last week right so I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here because Palace fans might you know know something that we don't for all we know Gailly's gone to the board and said I don't know when I'm going to get this opportunity again I want to go the offer's there I've accepted the offer I've agreed terms I don't want to risk getting injured and missing out on this move you know he might have even seen Pakita miss on his move to Man City for different reasons I don't want that to be me right so if he's decided that that's it for him I just want to make it clear there's very little the club can do and it's very it's easy to criticise the club a lot of time clubs do run themselves terribly we know that and decisions are made that are poor we don't know that to be the case here and I think it might just be that Palace understand that the way they survive the way they punch above their weight the same way Bright and Brentford other teams do it is you know these players are going to go and they have prepared for losing Gahey, they've brought in Lacroix, they've brought in a young JD Canvo, they've brought in Riyad as well, they've brought in three centre-backs in preparation for this, so they do kind of have preparations and plans in place I want to get stuck into Glasner.

47:37He's going to Man City and Glasner is gutted and has announced, apparently the board didn't realise he was going to announce it, that he's going at the end of the season, and to be honest he might even go before. I think that, well they've said haven't they overnight that they've had conciliatory chats and it's actually fine and they expect him to be the one to lead them through to the rest of the season, blah, blah. I think Glasner's behaved appallingly here. I think Glasner's like outbursts, not the first time he's done it, and the way, there's an irony in it. There's an irony in your complaining about the club saying that Gay is going the day before a game at the same time that you're doing this without turning the board and announcing this stuff and talking about how pissed off you are and say you've been abandoned, you've got no support and you, as a point of principle, I can't make any subs.

48:21Well, you can make subs, right? I understand there's young players on the bench. I understand you haven't got an amazing amount of options, but you still can make subs. I mean, this is how players learn their trade. This is how players do well. This is how players have careers. You can give them the chance and they might surprise you. So don't tell me you can't make subs. You're making a point, right? I feel quite strongly, actually, that fine, they've had the chat and it's going to be smoothed over, maybe, based on the time of recording. I fucking would have fired him. I would have fired him for that.

48:49They're not going to get relegated. I'd have fired him. I think it's really damaging. Which costs more money. Damaging. And that's another point of the gay thing, sorry, Jim, is that you keep gay, Galizena's sweet for a bit longer. It doesn't cost him more money. It doesn't cost you more money if he's got another job like that, which I think he might have. Well, anyway, Jim, you were going to say, sorry. I think it's really damaging that he's essentially sort of shown how the sausage is made at Palace, right? Because, I mean, they're in a situation where they've managed to get a highly rated manager in Oliver Glasner.

49:12He's won the Europa League with Eintracht Frankfurt. It's not like they plucked some guy from obscurity. They got a real get there. What is so important... Could have got Ange another year up to me. They might still. Yeah. But what's important is that if they want to go down this road is that they continue that, right? That they show themselves to be a club where you can do that and you can come in and you can succeed and then maybe it can be a bit of a launch pad. That is a good position for them to be in. This outburst, it really undermines that. And I think it's poor. I do as well. But he knows the power he has.

49:42He knows that they are... there's a strong argument that he's the greatest Palace manager of all time due to that FA Cup. Because of that win. He was also, he wasn't backwards and coming forward and seeding out that he had turned down Bayern Munich and stuff as well. So he knows his value. I think he's got another job lined up. That's what I think. Yeah. Would you like to speculate who? I hope it's Portsmouth. Bloody Laura. No, I don't know where, but I think someone like that, the way he carries himself, the career he's had, I wouldn't be surprised if he's got something lined up. Okay, interesting.

50:10Palace, 10 games without a win in all competitions. whereas Sunderland they cannot be beaten at home it's impossible to do it you just cannot do it I mean they were due a win to be honest with you it's the first win since the derby win of course on the 14th of December so they've gone a fair old time without it and they're very much still in the hunt for European football you would say next season and they've done all this with of course a fair few players missing who were away at the African Cup of Nations there's the link and that's where we go now we've all been building up to this what a night unbelievable what a night in the words of Richard Keyes I thought I'd seen just about everything yeah so if you haven't seen this and I'm sure you have whether you saw it in real time like High Bloody Hell did or you saw it the next morning whatever the game finished 0-0 after 90 minutes Senegal win it in extra time largely uneventful yeah exactly and thanks for listening to the football level well done to Senegal we can all go home happy so I mean we We fast forward to injury time.

51:15Actually, before we do that, Senegal should have really scored, as you say, in the first half. A couple of great chances. Bruno and the Morocco guy had a really good game. He had a marvellous game. He's in a marvellous tournament, as you say. Good game. Njai had a chance. Nil-nil, not much has separated. The Morocco came back and were probably the better side in the second half. In the 92nd minute, Senegal scored, but the goal was ruled out due to a foul in the build-up. Now, actually, that's slightly misleading. The referee blew the whistle. so actually the goal was never scored it wasn't a vast situation or it wasn't the whistle wasn't blown after the ball It's also worth noting that he blew the whistle quite a long time before the ball went in the net as well Yes and the Morocco players one or two of them looked like they'd sort of stopped or certainly they'd heard the whistle quite clearly so if you hadn't seen it the header comes in so the defender I forget who it was the Senegalese player shoves a Hikimi well that's the accusation it was a shove it was a soft one I felt the goal should have stood but of course you can't var it because the referee blew very very quickly You can't say this decision.

52:11You can disagree with the decision, but if he's a foul, he thinks it's a foul. You can't change the rules in the moment. Yeah, exactly. I thought it was, you know, a poor decision. I didn't think it was much of a foul. I can see where the referee's coming from. I think it was an absolute shocker from the referee. I thought it was very, very soft. And if the passage of play then continued without the referee's whistle, Senegal felt they should have scored. But of course, that's not what happened. Now, there has been a lot of controversy as there always is at international tournaments, particularly AFCON, with regard to refereeing and VAR decisions and so on and so forth.

52:41Morocco are the home side, of course. Senegal, for my money, are the best team in Africa at the moment. Well, they are. They've been crowned that. But anyway, Morocco get the decision and the goal. Well, the foul is given and therefore the subsequent goal is therefore null and void completely because it wasn't a proper passage of play. Minutes after that, was it a corner that came in? Moroccan corner and Brahimdi is just to have been fouled and the referee didn't give it VAR then says right have a look at this and in the 98th minute Morocco awarded a penalty it's a very soft one I don't think too many people would have given it I thought he threw him to the ground but there was contact again Luke there is something it's not a dive there's a little something there I don't think it's enough for a penalty it's an enormous decision it would have been easy for the ref to say no pen yes and then the accusations from a lot of people would say, but they're the home side, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

53:40People have been calling this decision, you know, shouldn't have been given and corruption and all these kind of words have been banded about, da-di-da-di-da. And then Senegal head coach Papi Thiel tells his side, basically, to walk off the pitch in protest. Which is totally acceptable. And this is it. I'm pleased for Brahim Diaz, in a way, that the headlines have been about that because, you know, I've not seen anything like this before. In a huge international tournament, a coach telling the players to walk off the pitch, in my mind, maybe I'm missing an obvious one here, but in my mind, looking at, you know, when I used to watch old videos of previous World Cups, there was a moment in, I think it was the 82 World Cup.

54:26It was Q8. Q8, yeah, there you go. That was the crown prince. Yes. Who was also the head of the Q80 Football Association, who basically in quite a sinister way made the manager pull the players off. I was going to say, yeah. It's slightly different. It is a bit different, yeah. So this is what you did. This is basically unprecedented. So off they go. The minutes are ticking by. And I'm sitting there watching this. There's a lot of people. Your phone's going crazy with WhatsApp. You're watching this. Everyone's thinking, well, what now? What if they don't come back? And I wonder if you get a decision now where if the manager pulls the players off the pitch like that, they forfeit the game.

55:01Yeah. There was a huge data. like a real possibility. Apparently Lille did it against Man Utd in the Champions League once. Oh, did they? Way back in the day around a Ryan Giggs free kick. That's the only other thing I could find though. Oh, that's right. That was in France, wasn't it? But you're absolutely spot on. What should have happened is the referee or the fourth official or whoever is responsible or even the CAF official, I don't know who it would be, would I think be within their rights and it should be part of the rules of the game to say, okay, you've got X amount of minutes to re-enter the field of play or you four-foot the game.

55:30That's right. And it's on you. Yeah, totally. you can't do that because you disagree with the refereeing decision I think you're going to have to because again even if the refereeing decision was like a shocker like he's seen something that no one else the human eye cannot see someone has to officiate the game you can have your inquiries after and all that bollocks but ultimately the old adage the refereeing decision is final now for those who saw it yeah it's soft some people like you look I thought he threw him to the ground there's contact like I say I think it's poor and I wonder if the home advantage influenced him or not I don't know but I can see why he's given it and if you can see why someone's given it then you know you have to have an ounce of sympathy there perhaps apparently it was Salihamane who got everyone back on the pitch he was yeah he showed incredible leadership there he did at one point I think he was the only Senegalese player left out there the manager completely lost his head he was gone Thiao was gone I mean the two the post-match chat from Morocco head coach said the image we've given Africa is shameful a coach who asks his players to leave the field what Pape did does not honour Africa he already started this in the pre-match press conference.

56:33He wasn't classy. He stopped the match in the eyes of the world for 10 minutes. That didn't help Brahim. The excuse will come to Brahim in a minute, but he said, you know, this is disgraceful. Interestingly, Papa Gay, who scored the brilliant Senegalese winner, saw it somewhat differently. He said, we felt injustice. There'd been a foul for us, and the referee chose not to look at the VAR. We were frustrated. But Sado Mani told us to come back out on the pitch to remobilise. We took the decision to come back on the pitch and gave everything, which we did. What's the problem? What you worried about?

57:02What kind of worries me about this is that it plays into the thinking we see in football so much now that there's always a conspiracy against you. Just in life generally. It's corrupt. Indeed, yeah. It's not just football, is it? Yeah, and it's a very sad expression of how many people feel that way. What then came? There's no excuse for this. What then came? Oh, my God. Again, everybody. So your WhatsApp chats are filled and everyone's going, I hope he misses because wouldn't that be kind of interesting? Another half an hour it is, et cetera, et cetera. Brahim Diaz. Guillem-Balague wrote a nice piece on him on the BBC recently.

57:35He's a great player and he's had a brilliant tournament as well. He's had a brilliant tournament. I mean, top goal scorer. He won the golden boot. If he scores that goal, immortality. Yeah. He has been taken to the nation of Morocco. You know, he's obviously, he's born in Spain, but due to family, you know, I think he's, I forget which side of the family. His father's Moroccan, yeah. Yeah. You know, it's a very interesting family background. But he chose to represent Morocco. He played one game for Spain. chose to go to Morocco. They'd been after him for a while. He goes there. He has, up until last night, became the golden boy of Moroccan football.

58:07Morocco, a side of a going place. With some really brilliant players in that team. Brilliant players. First African team to get to a semi-final of a World Cup. They're hosting this tournament. They haven't won the tournament in, what is it, 50 years? You know, they were on for it. They're one of the best sides in Africa. They'll give a good account of themselves. And he's made the calculation of all that you've just taken into account. He's made the calculation he's gone, Penenka. I just... Luke, And you know what is haunting me is he was obviously subbed pretty soon into the extra time that ensued.

58:35And it's the thousand yard stare from him on the bench. It is like my heart breaks for him. You know when your team lose or draw in quite annoying circumstances for whatever reason and you wake up and you remember. Imagine the feeling he had this morning when he woke up between that blissful moment where you can't remember and then it all coming crashing back down. I can't imagine. But the decision making. So you could argue that the whole atmosphere, because eventually he takes the penalty and then Mendy's obviously in his face giving it plenty and so on. And he's delayed the penalty a few times, didn't he?

59:11Very smartly. I mean, if he was on a booking, he probably could have got sent off. So again, a shithousery on a different scale, on an industrial scale. Diaz gets the penalty and puts it down. You could argue that the whole thing didn't affect him to do that. because if he blazes it over the bar or whatever, you kind of go, well, the atmosphere got to him. But he could have scrammed with his brain. It's a weird decision. The only thing I can think is that he's thought, you know what? I'm going to embarrass them. Yeah. It's a ludicrous decision. I understand if it goes in, it's the ballsiest thing ever in the history of world football, you could argue.

59:45But the fact is, he makes that decision and my heart breaks for him because I wanted him to miss because I wanted to see another half an hour. When all was said and done, I was glad Senegal won because I think, you know well was I that's the thing when all said and done I think I'd rather him score well yeah because it's funny isn't it Senegal have essentially persevered through sulking yeah because I think it's if that penalty happens shortly after it's given obviously we can't really know but it feels like that scenario is going to be very different one way or another right that stoppage has obviously had an impact I don't think you can root for Senegal after their behaviour well no exactly and I think it's amazing that that penalty ended up being taken I think in the 111th minute because I thought the decision was harsh and all the rest of it and so you think oh well was justice done but actually I think you're right look I don't think it was and with Diaz like again when he collects his golden boot the look on his face like it's tarnished this is a guy who he's not present he's the golden boy of Morocco he's on every ad campaign he's the golden boot winner every time he looks at that golden boot it's tarnished it's not like as Englishmen we know what it's like to have you know guys who have big players Harry Kane missed one and you kind of go but nothing like this no no that's annoying but he's tried you can see what he's trying to do if he sticks it in Rosette at least he's put did you see after the game when Pap Tiao walked into the press conference all the Moroccan journalists left as well well there was confrontations Jonathan Wilson between the journalists of Senegal yeah he said that actually Tiao had to leave oh really was it this is going to go on and on and on watch this space and Diaz has got to go back to Real Madrid now and it's been reported in Spain that Real Madrid president for Argentina parents is hoping to bring Jose Mourinho in his coat.

1:01:27Yeah. That would be great. I mean, there is talk when Mourinho's trying to get himself sacked at Benfica, isn't he? more on that would be good. He's stopping his players sleeping. Yeah. Amazing. I mean, he won't have to stop Diaz from sleeping. Honestly, I was staring at the ceiling last night thinking about it. Yeah. I'm haunted by it myself. Bloody hell. What an end to a great tournament though. Yeah. We have to leave it there, everybody. Thank you for listening to the Football Ramble, part of the Acast. Grazer Network. We're back tomorrow for the mailbag. Do get your chops around that lot. Until then, thank you, Luke Moore.

1:02:00Thank you very much. Thank you, Jim Campbell. Thank you. And, yeah, thank you, AFCOM. Never not dramatic.

1:02:15The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.