The President Strikes Back

0:00Jim Campbell: Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. And whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary football weekly podcast, The Guardian. Bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. I don't know what you mean to me when I call on the telephone, everybody.

0:34Welcome to the Football Ramble! Southampton are in the playoff final, or are they? It's Wednesday, 13th of May. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Jim Campbell. And I'm David Cartlidge.

0:54Hello, everybody. Good to have you with us. And thanks to friend of the Ramble, Jonathan Parsons, for giving us that intro line. If you want to submit an intro line for a future episode and get an extended edition of today's show, then become a friend of the Ramble on our Patreon. Just head to patreon.com forward slash football ramble to get involved now. Gentlemen, before we talk about the managerial merry-go-round, Southampton Football Club and all that stuff, we've got some very exciting news to share. Now, ladies and gentlemen, you might have heard that we're doing a watch-along for England's opening World Cup game against Croatia on the 17th of June.

1:27Well, people have been asking for more. And Jim, we often get asked for more, don't we? And what do we do when we get asked for more? We reiterate that one of our favourite things is more, and we agree to it. Yes, more with 1-0. Yes, not Luke Moore. But he will be. But he will be. He will be along for the ride, of course. You've asked for more, we've listened, and once again, we've delivered. We will be hosting watch-alongs for England's other two group games as well! Yay! if you don't want to pay all of yours and your family's savings for a ticket to see England at the tournament past and future family you don't want to liquidate all your assets

2:08Jim Campbell: for a spot in the car park outside one of the stadiums absolutely right then join us at 40 Foot Brewery in North London on Tuesday the 23rd and Saturday the 27th of June for two more nights of World Cup fever For those two games against Ghana and Panama, much like the one that we're doing on the 17th against Croatia, we'll be serving up plenty more pints of our official World Cup beer, of course called My Fizzy Aunt. There will be live pre-game chat, some top-notch food, and exclusive merch only available to attendees. Tickets are on sale now, so you'll have to be quick if you want to guarantee your place.

2:46Just click the link in the description on this episode to get your tickets now. David, World Cup fever, I fear, hasn't gripped you as tightly as it's gripped me. Have we got you over the line with this news? I have to admit, you are. You tease me a bit, aren't you? There we go! I'm there, I'm getting there, I'm getting there.

3:03Jim Campbell: Jim, fully erect? Honestly, the football is going to be such a welcome break from the World Cup. Can't wait. Should we just find a corner and drink my fizzy up? Absolutely. That sounds great. I wonder what you were going to say there. So, right, tickets are on sale now, everybody. Come on. we will guarantee you a bloody good time and I'll tell you something at the beginning middle and end of every night we're doing you will be saying to yourself we've got our game back now let's move on to some nonsense Chelsea Football Club specifically news is broken and it's David Ornstein that's given us this news the ornacle the ornacle indeed he is reporting that Chelsea are exploring a deal to appoint Xabi Alonso as the club's new head coach that puts pressure on the Liverpool ownership, doesn't it?

3:46Jim Campbell: It really, really does. And that's one of the really intriguing things about this story, isn't it? Further news has broken that Alonso obviously would prefer to take over at Liverpool, so perhaps wants to wait a little bit to see if that becomes an option. And if we know that, that's not by accident, is it? Those internal thoughts have been very deliberately leaked somewhere. So this is potentially going to be a bit of a saga, isn't it? because I think we are in an era now where it doesn't necessarily matter if your manager is a club legend of somewhere else. But I think this is a particularly emotive one, isn't it?

4:28Jim Campbell: Particularly with Xabi Alonso's role in that incredible Champions League win and the rivalry that Chelsea and Liverpool have had over the years. It would be an absolute sickener if Alonso were to go there. I know that Rafa Benitez is considered a legend at Chelsea. Yes. So there's precedent there. there certainly is there certainly Chelsea love it don't they yeah they love it you mentioned about Rafa Benitez there's obviously Maurizio Pochettino I mean I reckon a slither of that appointment was to piss off Spurs fans I swear they've got a department are they going to try and get Sir Alex Ferguson out of retirement is this where this is going JT must be fuming he's like why are you taking everybody else's club legends why aren't you taking this club's I mean he he definitely thinks that he's in the rankings I mean the odds of the odds for next Chelsea manager, Javi Alonso's the favourite.

5:16He's also the favourite to be the next Liverpool manager as well. So you see where they're going there. I mean, Andoni Arreola, second favourite to be Chelsea manager, next Chelsea manager, third favourite to be the next Liverpool manager. As you say, Jim, Alonso is reportedly open to the possibility of joining this, joining Chelsea. I mean, what do you think of this? Do you think this, as Jim is saying, that Alonso's representatives and PR people and whatnot are saying come on Liverpool what are you playing at here? Yeah I mean Because we will do this Yeah yeah exactly exactly they're playing it out but yeah Xabi Alonso seems like a smart guy I'm not too sure for a bright young manager after going through the Real Madrid meat grinder that going into the kaleidoscopic world of Bluecore is really what's like the best thing and the same goes for Irohola as well oh I have my stripes at Bournemouth what shall I do next?

6:09Oh yeah I'll just get thrown into that madhouse they both should avoid it well indeed I agree with that totally but still you know it is a huge club it's a huge Premier League club they're going to pay well whatever happens I know that you know as Alistair Campbell always says you know reputation you should always put before money which is something I personally wouldn't do so I am open to offers for anybody but you know when it comes to Chelsea Jim it is right it does seem a poison chalice at the moment but a coach say like Andoni Iriola for example but it would surely still be tempting.

6:41Jim Campbell: I think so. And I saw some really good logic on this in The Athletic, which was that Iriola is used to having his best players kind of stripped away and sold out from under him. Is he used to his best players saying all that before it happens, though, in the media? Not necessarily. But actually, in terms of someone who can work with a lot of churn, I thought that was a really good point because he's got experience there and he's got experience of maintaining a very, very high level. So I think he might potentially be a good fit. But I think actually, ultimately, the key thing here is that there have been rumours that Bluco are thinking about switching their strategy up a little bit and kind of not necessarily going for the kind of puppy farm strategy they've had so far of just getting young players and selling them on at the detriment of the stability of the team.

7:29Jim Campbell: I think there is a bit of talk that they're going to try and at least solidify the first 11 a little bit more. Would you believe that? I don't know if I do believe it, to be honest. That's the thing. They've got a raft of young players arriving. They've already signed up as well. Quenda from Sporting, for instance, just to name one. Believe it when I see it. Yeah, quite. But that is the sell that they have to give any of these managers. You may have to work under our structure, but it's certainly going to be a little bit more manageable for you. That is surely how they have to sell this job. But again, I don't know how likely that is, particularly because if they don't get into Europe this season, then that strategy is going to naturally have to shift because they are probably going to have to sell a big ticket player.

8:12I'm going to give you a name, and I think that the job and the role at Chelsea is ideal for Marco Silva. Ah, David. I'm sorry. Why do you think that? I just think what he's had to deal with at Fulham in terms of shoestring budget and what have you, players taken away, I think he's worked very well with that. Fulham haven't had that many players taken away, though, under Silva. I think so. I think they've had a few goals. Not like, say, Bournemouth. It's a small squad, shall we say. He hasn't been given a lot of depth. It's that sort of thing. But the ownership at Fulham, they are very patient with Marco Silva.

8:45And the whole club really is kind of, as much as it can be in this sort of short space in the modern era and so on, is sort of moulded around him a bit. He's not going to get any of that at Chelsea. Not a job. That contract still isn't signed. No, no, I'm not saying he won't leave Fulham. And that's a different point. But to go to Chelsea, I understand, yeah, Marcus Silva's an ambitious manager. And I don't think it is outrageous to link him to that job. I mean, it would obviously be a sickener for Fulham fans. But again, what you said about the other managers and their, they should be hesitant to say the least about taking the Chelsea job.

9:24So should Silva as well. Because as I say, he can, by his own admission, much as I love the man, he can be a grumpy old sod. and that Chelsea ownership, as we've seen, they don't take lightly to that and if he's demanding, as he will be, I think he will get frustrated very quickly. It's one thing being frustrated at Fulham where it's a little bit more understandable whereas he's saying, well, come on, what is this strategy? They have one strategy, he will have another and where Silva really excels is getting players who are experienced but maybe slightly older who haven't maybe quite done it at one or two other clubs and he says, right, come here and look at the likes of Iwobi to a different extent, if you will, Raul Jimenez.

10:07Those kind of players, he's very good at that. Chelsea, they're not interested in any of that bollocks. I actually thought, also as well, and we're going to talk about the current incumbent Benfica in a short while, but there is chat that if that seat becomes available, then perhaps being George Mendes' agent, he may well go to Benfica. There's a bit of a Murray go around there as well. Well, there is a bit of America around, but it also involves a certain Brazilian who played at Chelsea. Felipe Luiz. Exactly. Interesting outside bet. It is an outside bet, but I think it's worth a brief mention.

10:41I mean, what do you think of Felipe Luiz? Because he is a young coach, of course. Marvellous playing career. And yes, if you're thinking, was he the fullback at Atletico? Yes, you're absolutely right. That's who we've been talking about. Well, he played for Chelsea for a period of season, didn't he? I mean, what do you think of his credentials? Fantastic. Very exciting. What he did at Flamengo was brilliant. He had a bit of a fallout there over a few different things. I think he felt that the success that he brought about there, he deserved a better contract and such. The club didn't really want to do that, so he left by that standards.

11:09I think he'll be a great point for anybody. I really, really do. Very exciting coach. And it's interesting that Mendes does manage him, Mourinho and Marco Silva as well. And that is not to be ignored. That is the way it is. You know how Mendes likes to push his pieces into different places as well.

11:26Jim Campbell: You know who'd be a really good fit? for Chelsea, if they could actually just give the manager a little bit of control and stand back a bit, would be Enzo Maresca. So this is the problem that any of them are going to have, isn't it? And I hate to sort of come back to a point I've already made. But if it's going to succeed, they have to change how they operate. It almost doesn't matter who it is coming in, because if they're of a good enough level, then they know better than you, right? And so you need to hand certain things over to them. Yeah. Just on Mareska, clearly they would be a much better place.

11:59But Mareska did have his critics when he was there.

12:01Jim Campbell: Oh, he did. Of course he did. But he was, you know, and the football got dull and there were periods where kind of the good stuff stopped working. But you take the point, right? I do, yes. He managed to win them a couple of trophies. Things were going in the right direction. And the players absolutely loved them. Yeah. Loved him, rather. So, yeah, it's... He's man city bound. Sure, of course he is. Yeah, I mean, and that's a pretty unique situation. but part of the reason he left was he was fed up with the interference, right? Yeah, indeed he was. I mean, I just think at Chelsea right now, it's a madhouse.

12:35If they got Xabi Alonso in, I think that would be such a coup. It'd be massive. I agree. It really would be. And like I say, you circle all the way back round to Liverpool, they've said, you know, the reports, you know, at the time of recording have been we're going to back on a slot. And you saw what happened in the last game at Anfield. the chance and so on they've not had that for a while obviously because of the stability of Jurgen Klopp and the fact they won the league last year I why do you think Liverpool would overlook Jabby Alonso I'm honestly baffled I wish I could give you a really good explanation for it but you can honestly see a scenario where Alonso goes to Chelsea they start playing some fun stuff get the feeling back a little bit there and then it starts all very placid first five six games on the slot and you can see the toxicity increase in Anfield.

13:24You can just see that scenario playing out completely. And then... It's a very predictable scenario. Yeah. If you did all that. And the fans just pointed out, look, Luke said this on the podcast earlier in the week. He is right there, Liverpool. Xabi Alonso is right there. Again, is a back three that bad of an idea, Jim?

13:43Jim Campbell: That they're just like, oh, no, no, we've seen him do it too many times. It's odd, isn't it? And he wouldn't even necessarily do that. Has Ruben Amorim single-handedly ruined the idea of big clubs in England playing a back three? After all the work Antonio Conte did to finally get it to work. He's done it all. I don't understand. I don't understand. Well, as you say, the managerial Merigold round involving George Mendes could be in full swing soon enough if indeed Jose Mourinho leaves Benfica, which seems to be more and more likely as the days and the hours tick by. because apparently some are saying some are reporting he's in the final stages of negotiations to become Real Madrid's next head coach 13 years after his first spell that number feels significant yes it does Jim I mean why would we why on earth would they do this is my question I suppose my answer to my own question is I don't care more of it please yeah absolutely Real Madrid are a bit of a circus aren't they but they are absolutely unique in world football.

14:49Jim Campbell: Part of me loves Real Madrid because they are such a telenovela. Like the anthem they play at the end of when they score and every opportunity, the white kit, the regal kind of idea of it all, I find it really funny. And also very impressive when it's in full flow, obviously. Real means royal. Yeah, exactly. You know, always translate that, Royal Madrid. Real Madrid, yeah. So this feels like just another stage in the kind of quite soap opera-y life of Real Madrid, isn't it, returning to Jose Mourinho? I think it's turned up a notch, though. Right. Even for Real Madrid. I mean, it's utterly ludicrous bringing Mourinho back.

15:31I mean, presumably you wouldn't disagree with that, David. Oh, it is. It's the wrong. You know, me and Andy Brassel did an episode on the continent and we both agreed on that. We just said it's an absolute ludicrous way to go about things. But it's largely through the fact that I think Florentino Perez who we'll get on about in a minute yeah don't worry about that he's looked at that dressing room and he's not seen any senior figures the Sergio Ramos the Tony Cruz Luka Modric and he says we need to install some sort of figure in there who can get hold of this dressing room there's not even a Hossaloo and in his mad mad mind Florentino Perez thinks get Jose back he'll sort it all out

16:09Jim Campbell: but is part of it though this whole situation we keep seeing with big players falling out and the sort of ongoing chat about, you know, does Mbappe fit? Was this a mistake? And, you know, Mbappe and Vinicius basically essentially play in the same position. There's a lot of stuff going on there. The players have huge names, huge reputations, I'm sure huge egos. Mourinho is really the one guy, maybe, you could get in who is the star, even now, among all those names. That's his sentiment. I think that's the thinking, Marcus. It is the thinking. He's a broken star, though. Sure. you're in the mind of Florentino Perez mate yeah quite how is it there it's really opulent actually yeah a faded star not a broken star I mean because if you really wanted to go down that route and I've no doubt he's tried this it would be Zidane Zidane would be the star to bring back if you wanted the control of the players he's going to France so we all agree he's going to France he's wanting that job for a long time indeed but I'm just saying in terms of Real Madrid and all that sort of star quality Mourinho, as we know, is a busted flush these days.

17:17And, I mean, you really look at, again, let me just remind you all, you look at a player like, say, Chouameni. What does he need? Jose Mourinho. What does the Valverde Chouameni situation? Mourinho. What does Rodrigo need? Mourinho. What does Vinicius Junior need? Yeah, maybe not. Do you know what I mean? Well, certainly after the recent history, yeah. That's a massive issue. It's already been just referencing. so you know I've said it and I've once I've said it before it is utterly ludicrous and I'm delighted it's happening

17:48Jim Campbell: does part of you not think that he will be able to get the old magic going again because the combination of him and Real Madrid you know how they can just like oh they just won the Champions League no I don't think so because the style of football will be quite boring he has also said in fairly recent years that he doesn't relate to modern footballers yeah and they're all very different from how he's best teams were, which is obviously a massive problem. This worked with Carlo Ancelotti. Carlo Ancelotti is a very different figure to Jose Mourinho. Carlo Ancelotti, very avuncular, the people like him while they're playing under him, and also when he leaves, they have good things to say to him.

18:28He doesn't disrupt and he doesn't try to divide and conquer like Mourinho does. And I think that that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to think, right, Ancelotti back in, get that Real Madrid spirit. Almost a slight siege mentality. If you think about how they won the Champions League when they did with the last minute goals and never say die attitude and so on. And I think that's what they're wanting Mourinho to do and I don't think that will

18:51Jim Campbell: It's already started. Iker Casillas is already tweeting about how he thinks it's a bad appointment. Well the tweet says I have no problem with Mourinho. He seems like a great professional to me. I don't want him at Real Madrid. I think other coaches would be better equipped to coach at the club of my life. Personal opinion nothing more. Personal experience. Yeah, I was going to say, their beef is very, very well published. Yeah, indeed it is. But I mean, look, the decision ultimately will be made with the president, Florentino Perez. And you think, well, how is old Perez getting on these days?

19:23Well, he gave quite an incredible press conference yesterday. He began with, good afternoon, I regret to inform you that I'm not going to resign. And everyone strapped themselves in after that. But he went on to say that he was going to call a presidential election to try and prove a lot of people wrong. And he said he'll be standing for re-election. He didn't give any details on how or when this would happen. He would obviously have to resign for that to happen. Didn't do any of that. He came out swinging. Some journalists described it as Trump-esque. He went on an attack accusing the media of trying to unseat him as president.

19:57He said he was going to cancel a subscription to one newspaper because of their campaign against him. and he called some of the journalists in the room ugly. It was like, even by his standards and Real Madrid's standards, everybody in the room was just like, this is madness. Just spitting fire. This is absolute madness. This is the last act of a madman. What is going on there, David? Clearly, they are so rattled by what's happened of late. They lose the league at the Nou Camp.

20:24Jim Campbell: You know, that's never happened before. Never happened before. Between either team. Exactly. And therefore, they have to do something and act. but with Perez in charge who is 79 years old I admire his ability at that age to have such a job and as we all know the old men who like to rant you know is quite in vogue in terms of leadership positions around the world but you look at it and you think yeah they lost the league at Barcelona the first time that's ever happened they were nowhere in the title race at the end of it they were dumped out of the Champions League as well this is desperate times players are knocking each other out that's the thing He's in the trenches and he is absolutely scrapping around, trying to get out of there and get back right on the front line.

21:05And it was, it was a mix of Trump, Jordan Belfer and Logan Roy. So quite the potent mix. It was honestly one of the most outrageous press conferences I've ever seen from anybody involved in football. It was that absurd. That, the man, his head has completely fallen off. Barca back to back titles for the first time since 2018, 2019 And this fight between Fedor Valverde and Ariadne Choumeni Has clearly struck a big nerve What's more, the leaks that are coming out Anything that he doesn't have control of Will just send him into this state of chaos basically And you see he came out swinging My god, he came out swinging He brought out the big guns, he brought out the tank He brought out everything He really, really went for it.

21:57And it was just absurd. Honestly, just baffling. And no one... I mean, sorry, the way he attacked the Spanish media as well, I was just thinking, can you imagine if somebody did that over here and how it would be taken? It was astonishing.

22:13Jim Campbell: He also implied that they know who's been leaking and said that it's someone who's leaving. Now, we don't know if that's playing stuff. And he will deal with them. Yes, absolutely, which is another thing. He also put some old school chauvinism in there. Yes. Addressed a female journalist by saying, what could a woman know about Real Madrid? Which is mad. It's like saying, more than you at the moment. How can a left-handed person be sad? It's just completely illogical. Just completely ridiculous logic that, as so much old school chauvinism is. So he is just like, just, he's kind of defending himself against a lot of imaginary enemies yes people just turning up essentially to get an update on what's going on with Real Madrid and then he's gone to war with all of them and the referee as well he brought that up about Barcelona as well so it was deflect deflect deflect and he explicitly said I'm not here to talk about the team and then everybody's like oh right here we go and then he proceeded to go through all these different subjects and I guess one of the main ones was look I could have won I've won seven titles here should have been 14.

23:20The rest were robbed from me. So that's just to give you a little insight into where his head's at right now. Last act of a bad man. Calling the journalists ugly. Yeah. Come on. Well, that's what you get with Real Madrid at the moment. And if one man can help the situation. Is it Jose Mourinho? From our point of view, I think it is. Absolutely. Can you imagine he was too mad for Mourinho? If Mourinho looked at it and said, wow, this is too much for me. After that press conference, he's like, you know what? You know what? Chelsea? I'll go back to Chelsea.

23:50Oh, deary me. Right then, coming up after this, more madness. FIFA's World Cup ticketing nonsense continues.

24:17Jim Campbell: Side and out. We've got you covered. Read, watch and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams and the legendary football weekly podcast. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more.

24:42Can I just get a beer first? Yeah, definitely. Where are they? This is where it gets weird. And can you get my big wooden cock out of my drawer that the lady's leaning on, please? Well, back to the football ramble, everybody. That was Jamie Vardy in his new documentary, which I haven't seen, and I know it's must viewing. Jim? I haven't seen it either, but I will absolutely be watching it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Right, the Championship Playoff Final is set for now. Hull City will take on Southampton in the Championship Player Final on Saturday, 23rd of May. At the time of recording, that sentence is correct.

25:19I just want to see a will later. Well, indeed. I mean, this is extraordinary. Southampton beat Hull City 2-1 last night, 2-1 on aggregate after extra time at St. Mary's with a late winner. But of course, with all this spying business, we're not quite sure. I mean, this is an unprecedented situation in English football, as far as I can see. So if Southampton, who are going to contend that final with Hull City, as I say, at the time of recording, if nothing changes, that will happen. But if they're found guilty of the spying charges, which are lodged against them, they are likely to face a sporting sanction, which could be a match forfeit rather than a fine.

26:04Jim Campbell: Yeah, so it would be a 3-0 defeat in the first leg, which would mean Middlesbrough would go through. Yes. and I mean just as well they didn't win 4-0. Indeed. In that second leg because that would have been particularly... Then what? Yeah, well it didn't happen so we'll cross that bridge hopefully never. But yeah, so they could still be kicked out of the playoffs. And if that happens I mean that would be as I say, unprecedented. Yeah. Well the argument for that is that when Marcelo Bielsa was caught doing this and was like, oh sorry, I've been doing this everywhere. I didn't realise this was a bad thing.

26:36Jim Campbell: But the rules weren't there. No, but the rules were changed because of that. So I think Middlesbrough's argument will be, look, you know that this is against the rules. There is a specific rule against it. So I suppose they have a case there. I think it would be sort of absurd now for that to actually be how it plays out. But I guess we'll see because plenty of people might argue that actually it's completely fair because the rules are there for a reason and there needs to be some sort of consequence for breaking them. I think either way, some of the Southampton fans were dressed as like hedges, weren't they?

27:07Jim Campbell: which could backfire quite spectacularly if they do end up being kicked out of this situation. Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you something though. After the game, I mean, Kim Helberg, Middlesbrough manager, was quite emotional. Yeah. Saying, you know, it was my dream to manage in the Premier League and so on. And he feels incredibly hard done by, by the allegations against Southampton. Again, nothing's been proved yet at the time of recording. They are charges that have been lodged against Southampton. but I mean yeah he was really really sad and understandably so at the end of this game yeah definitely and look I thought Middlesbrough were the best team in the first leg Southampton in the second leg but Middlesbrough were really tired last night by what 60 minutes they did look leggy Southampton's winner comes from the fact that they don't even have the energy to swing a leg do they they're so so knackered that the ball goes all the way through and you're just gutted for them at that point they were well beaten though I think Southampton were by far the better team last night I think so I think so yeah Yeah, Middlesbrough definitely came up short and I think there's been a lack of investment in January.

28:09I think a lot of the fans have said, look, we should add a bit more depth here. There wasn't really much you could do from the bench last night with players and such. So yeah, they felt just short, but credit to them for sticking about there and taking it to extra time considering the opposition knew all their tactics and such. Yeah, well, Middlesbrough are reportedly going to continue preparing as normal for the final just in case Elhampton get disqualified. Back train at the lovely Rockliffe Hall. Yeah, yeah. But... Check those bushes. I mean, you want to start talking about, you know, if this happens, whereas perhaps we'll keep our powder dry, because if it doesn't, it's business as usual.

28:46But I mean, if it was to happen, the ramifications would be pretty severe. And this needs to be sorted out pretty quickly, because the final is on the 23rd of May.

28:55Jim Campbell: Yeah. I mean, the reporting I've seen says the intention is for it to be sorted out before, and it's like, do better than that. You have to. You really, really have to sort this out very, very quickly. A friend of mine is a Southampton fan who also loves spycraft, and he's just really annoyed that the fella got caught. That's the one thing you don't do. Oh, well. Get a professional in. Don't just send one of your staff. Yeah, exactly. Get someone from, like, a spy agency. It must be possible. Is that Tonda up there? He wasn't up there. So yes, whoever, as I said, at the time of recording, it will be Southampton playing Hull City, who of course beat Millwall in the other semi-final on Tuesday night.

29:41Alex Neal, Millwall manager, was criticised for his substitutions in that second leg defeat to Hull. Apparently he brought on Mikhailo Ivanovic, Alfie Doughty and Barry Bannon in the second half. Responding to a fan on X who said Bannon was being made a scapegoat for Millwall's defeat, Bannon's wife Chloe replied, it's always Barry's fault a good manager would help oh dear oh dear he's done a good job as well Alex Neal I know yeah but not in the Bannon household no absolutely not foolish of me to think Liv Millwall could have got to the Premier League because their playoff curse

30:14Jim Campbell: has struck again but he has done a really good job he has and actually considering I think their wage bill is quite kind of it's about halfway down the championship isn't it and that's very very impressive so you know which makes me think it's a good platform Which makes me think it's difficult to go again then next season. Sure, yeah, yeah. That kind of thing, but you never know. You never know. Gentlemen, let's move on to World Cup ticketing nonsense then. Yes. Here we go again. Here we go again. FIFA are selling tickets to watch the World Cup final from outside of the stadium, basically in a fan park, for over$16 ,000.

30:52$16 ,000. $16 ,000 would be outrageous

30:56Jim Campbell: for a ticket to the final. Yes. For any game, any tournament, for any sport. Yeah, if you said to me, right, and this is all included in the price, you can go in, you can travel back in time with Bill and Ted or Marty McFly, take your pick, and you go to any game and you go to the 1970 World Cup final, $66 ,000 or anything, and you'll be back, you'll be fed, all the rest of it. How much is that? $16 ,000. I go, nah, that's a bit pricey. Yeah. Yeah, going to have to liquidate some assets for that, I'm afraid. Fan park. Fan park. Not even in the game. Not even in the stadium. Yeah, it gets you into the FIFA Pavilion.

31:33I mean, it does sound nice, I suppose. The FIFA Pavilion. What is that?

31:37Jim Campbell: Yeah, to me, that feels like it's going to be like that Willy Wonka experience in Glasgow. Oh, God, remind me of that. It was just... Willy Wonka experience? Yeah, I don't know about this, please. It was one of those kind of pop-up experiences, but people arrived, and it was just a few people in orange paint dressed as umpa-loompas and there was some AI-generated background stuff, but it wasn't anywhere near big enough for the space it was in and it just looked absolutely deranged, nightmarish. And I think the FIFA Pavilion, they'll just be like, well, we've got the 16 grand, let's cut costs down on what it actually is so we can keep a bit more money.

32:11Yeah, well, that's a very, very cynical way of looking at it, Jim. And you should apologise to FIFA, we need to trust them more because they have described the FIFA Pavilion as an exclusive retreat. Retreat. Retreat. Do they know what a retreat is? Located immediately outside the stadium. It's a retreat located just off the high street. Yeah. It's not a retreat, is it? Not really a retreat. Anyway, I suppose that's the least of my worries. And is this taking up space in the car park?

32:38Jim Campbell: Another problem? Well, I hope not. It's going to push the prices up for all the other spaces, presumably. We do know the car park is going to be a lot of money. I mean, the average cost of securing tickets for players' families and guests at the World Cup has risen to$3 ,000 after extra purchases. It really is anything they can think of, isn't it? Oh, what about the players' families? They have to come. Let's put a big mark up on their tickets. Honestly, it is like Mayor Quimby in that Simpsons episode when they have Radioactive Man shot in the town. Completely. There's no stone they haven't unturned to make some money.

33:13That we know of. Yeah, yeah. If there is, it's just that they haven't thought of it yet. There's a FIFA tax on wearing three-quarter lengths in the stadium, but these are shorts. I mean, not wearing three-quarter lengths in the stadium. They literally... Words fill me, honestly, with what's going on. I think the city jerseys released this week as well, so they've made a football jersey for each city that's hosting games. I think they're about$300 each. They are vile as well, by the way. They are horrible. Even if they were 80 quid, I'd be like, come on,$300. They should be free. Look, words fail me right now with this situation, because it's just grim.

33:50It's just grim. They're filthy pieces of shit. But words should fail you, because there are no words in the English language which can get to the core of this, that can accurately describe it. Greed does not cut it, even if it's in big gold capital letters. It's beyond that, but football was always going this way and what have you, but it's just taken these two characters in Infantino and Trump to tug each other off their little golden cocks. You know what I mean? They're fucking filthy pieces of shit. That's what they are. It's similar to that. But when you say it's heading this way, that actually might be the only point I would push back on.

34:22Because I know football prices have increased and so on. This is astronomical. This is like way above. Way above Qatar. In previous World Cups, in the previous World Cup, right, the ticket pricing was actually not an issue. There was far more serious issues than ticket pricing, of course. But the ticket prices here, they're at least four times the price. of the ticket. The jump has been astronomical. And that's... Yeah, words are failing me. Jim, have you got any words?

34:53Jim Campbell: The word is gouge. The word is... Price gouging is obviously the phrase used for this sort of behaviour. And there's a violence to it that I think feels appropriate. Yeah. I just think we were always heading here. And like I said, I know you think it's very... It's out of this world, astronomical, the price and such. But I just think we were always heading here. And when you look at the figures who were involved... Without Infantino in charge, yes, I agree with you. We look at the figures involved, that is in the people. I just think this was inevitable. I'm honestly not surprised. When I say price of things, I'm like, I'm not surprised.

35:24I knew it was going that way. Yeah, but you've got to be careful with that conviction. I understand it. But that's what they want you to go. Well, yeah, it was always going to go like that. Because that's why you get some absolute dickhead commentators, often based in the US. And, of course, there's a lot of outrage in the US. I want to be very balanced about that. There's a lot of football fans in the US who are outraged as much as we are. But you do get, however many, a few commentators, absolute knobheads, who somehow justify this or are not surprised. In fact, almost proud of it. Oh, we've got the most expensive World Cup.

35:54Therefore, it's the best World Cup. Of course, you've got to pay top dollar to come here. And that's what Infantino and his cronies are banking on. But the thing is, we are now at a stage where football fans around the globe are going, bloody hell, bring back Seth Blatter. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's where we are. In the same way with the US, we were thinking, do you remember when we thought George W. Bush, it couldn't get more silly than that? And that's with Blatter and the FIFA presidency.

36:20Jim Campbell: But we're sort of, obviously, we're all in our own kind of echo chambers to some degree, whether you know it or not. And we've got a very Eurocentric view and all that sort of thing, yeah. But there does seem to be pretty much universal condemnation of this sort of stuff, wherever you look. And obviously, you do get grifters who support the idea of, of, you know, essentially just price gouging and all this stuff. And people who think in that way. But I think they are in a minority, a loud minority, of course, because they've got their internet folk horns. But it has been really interesting to see the sort of universal condemnation of this.

36:55Jim Campbell: And I wonder how it's going to affect the atmosphere on the ground. Because unless, like, imagine you go to a game and the game's a little bit disappointing and you've spent thousands to be there that you can't really afford. like it's is it but Jim is that conducive to a good atmosphere you know what's going to happen that'll be a sort of a culture war-esque type sure situation where whoever goes they'll go yeah actually there were a few empty seats and oh but Trump infantile and all the rest of it will just deny it flatly and it will just be in this absurd situation where oh blimey I can't be bothered but what we say is loads of you are getting in touch to share your experiences of dealing with FIFA and all their bollocks ahead of this World Cup so if you'd like to share your story then please do get in touch email us at footballramble.com or message us on socials at Football Ramble because we have had some things.

37:40We've talked about them on the show, so do get in touch. This is not a ticketing scandal, but perhaps equally as worrying, NASA has begun monitoring the Azteca Stadium in Mexico over fears that it's sinking. Oh, yeah.

37:57Jim Campbell: NASA, I don't know whether this is naive, but they're one of the few institutions left that I sort of have any faith in. Yeah, them and the fire brigade. Yeah, yeah. I'm glad they've stepped in, at least. Is this all legit, yeah? Yeah. If I brought this up on an episode, right, I'd have Vishen Luke Moose calling his Matla Cartlidge. This sounds big conspiracy vibes. But if NASA are saying it... There is a sinkhole near the stadium, which a Coca-Cola truck fell into at one point. And they're obviously a sponsor of the World Cup, so that feels like a portent of doom to me. Blimey, it does, doesn't it?

38:30Jim Campbell: But there's a lot going on. Yeah, but the city is kind of built on a... on sort of marshland, I think, and they just sort of, I don't know if you look back through the history, but I mean, I didn't think it would, I mean, I mean, if it was to start sinking, you know, to that lack of infrastructure and the original idea of the city, very unfortunate that it's this year that that came to roost, you know. But there we are. If the, if I tell you something though, if the Azteca Stadium is not in use in this World Cup, then I'm out. Yeah, I mean, it is. I'm Duncan Valentine in it, Jim. I'm out. I'm out.

39:01Jim Campbell: That is, that would be gutting. It would be gutting. We've often said on this show that Mexico are the most World Cup team. And because of all the chaos around this World Cup, it's kind of being forgotten that a portion of it will happen in Mexico. And it would be absolutely gutting if the Azteca Stadium would sink before our very eyes. Although after that, AI generated... Before our eyes! It's going down! But it feels possible, doesn't it? After Donald Trump posted that picture of himself as Jesus, there seemed to be legitimate conversations in Christian circles on Reddit. about whether he might or not be the actual Antichrist.

39:36Jim Campbell: So this would be in line with that, wouldn't it? True enough, true enough. Jim, do you hold the Mexican government in the same regard as you hold NASA? I'd say they both have a lot on their respective plates. They do. And those plates are quite different. Okay, but you're not team cartel, we should say. No, right, no. Well, I mean... Depends who's asking. It's never been pitched to me, to be honest. I say that but I don't have all the information he's being careful which cartel he aligns himself with in the interests of balance yeah okay well the Mexican government they have cancelled plans to end the country's school year almost six weeks early for the World Cup and they cancelled them because funny enough those plans were criticised heavily World Cup's coming, everybody just take a load of time off now I know that like those kids need that six weeks of education and it's important.

40:33Jim Campbell: But yeah, I'm gutted for them. I am. That's been dangled. I don't know what the Mexican school holidays are like, but in England, when we were growing up, it was six weeks, wasn't it? Imagine if the six weeks became 12 weeks and there was going to be a World Cup in your country. You would be delirious with joy and it's been snatched away. I remember there being a few tournaments and we were at school and what have you and everybody, loads of people called sickies. I really want to say when Brazil first England when Ronaldinho scored the free kick over seaman I want to say I was still at school then, but I pulled a ciggy on that morning.

41:03Did you? Yeah, yeah. See that? Ooh, how about that? Yeah. World Cup fever. Well, I think that I've no doubt that there will be schools across Mexico watching World Cup games and all that kind of stuff. Can't come in, I've got lupus. But to do it six, like to shift it that much, I don't know. There is a positive story, though, surrounding the World Cup. It's World Cup adjacent, but it's relevant that Dick Advocat looks like he's going to return to his former role as Curacao manager following improvements in his daughter's health. That's great news. That is great news. Yeah. OK, we are looking forward to the World Cup, despite sinkholes and ticket prices.

41:43But something that we would all dearly love to see is Dick Advocat back in the dugout for all the for the good reason of his daughter's health improving, of course. I mean, his original replacement, Fred Rutten, resigned the other day. And Advocat is, obviously, suddenly the attention turned to him because Rutten said, look, I'm not cutting the mustard here. There was chat that Dick Advocat could come back. And I think, look, I'll step aside. I think everybody wants that. And Advocat looks like he's going to be in the hot seat. Come the World Cup.

42:13Jim Campbell: I mean, it would be fabulous. It was a fantastic story with a really sort of sad kind of end before it even started. So this is great news and it will be an excellent sort of bit of colour, really, to the tournament. Yeah, but before you start getting all, getting your World Cup rose-tinted specs back, Fox Sports have announced their new World Cup TV show, which will be co-hosted by James Corden and Rio Ferdinand. Great news for... Crashing back down into that sinkhole. Great news for Adam Curtis, if he ever does a documentary about dumbing down. Coming up after this, Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang has been playing with the fire extinguisher.

43:17Jim Campbell: That's how we deliver reliable energy to millions across the world. Aramco, an integrated energy and chemicals company. Learn more about us at aramco.com.

43:32Jim Campbell: Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. Whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. From one of the fastest-growing soccer newsrooms, The Guardian brings you in-depth World Cup coverage that gets into the winners and losers on and off the pitch. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective, and a squad of Americans, including me, on the ground with the U.S.

44:04Jim Campbell: national team. Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge, try On The Ball. It's a game in The Guardian app, and it's really, really fun. And if you're into stuff like this… Well, I think the problem is if you give footballers an inch, they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much. It's a bit too real. Maybe you could just talk with a slight delay. Be sure to listen to our Football Weekly podcast for on-the-move expert analysis. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more.

44:36Welcome back to the Football Ramble, everybody. tonight Manchester City host Crystal Palace Manchester City can close the gap to Arsenal by two points with a win against Crystal Palace tonight if they fail to do that though ooh et cetera et cetera I mean if they well obviously if they fail to do that I mean Arsenal could then win the league on Monday night against Burnley what a thought Jim what a thought indeed

45:05Jim Campbell: what a thought the thing with this though is everybody is talking about Crystal Palace as if they've got both their eyes on the Europa Conference League final, which of course, you know, they will certainly have an eye on it. But like everyone is talking about Crystal Palace as if they're going to play a team full of like children and pets and are just going to get thumped in all of these games, which, you know, we've seen from their performance at the weekend. It's not necessarily the case. Now, I do think Man City will win here tonight. But I also think Crystal Palace away on the last Saturday season is a trickier tie for Arsenal than people are.

45:37Jim Campbell: It's a lovely old job team for Arsenal. Yeah. Days later. Three days later. Sure. But I think there's also an argument that you want your team firing and you want your team ready. And it's a good sort of game where there's nothing on it for them. And that's a good test of them. And I think people are being quick to write off the ability that Palace have. I think it's going away to the Etihad is a tough one. But it's going to make for an interesting game. Okay. Fair enough. We'll get back to the game tonight, David. but if I said to you, your team are going to play on the last day of the season to win the league, all you have to do is, let's say win against a team who are currently 15th in the league and have a final away from home three days later, you would say, that is a lovely old job.

46:20I'd be pretty confident. Right enough. Right enough. Well, look, they are playing Manchester City tonight and Palace also go away to Brentford and then obviously they've got that game against Arsenal so their final three games of the season. I don't think you're going to see them down tools or anything tonight because that would be ludicrous if you had three games in a row where it was piss poor performances and then they go away. I think in these games you have to give it some. And also as well, the owners are aware. And so are the, I mean, I know the manager's not going to be there really. But, you know, the owners are aware at the club that a place in the Premier League, it's worth a few quid, you know, the higher you finish, of course.

47:00and they could still finish a few places above where they currently are. But yes, I think a Manchester City victory is on the cards tonight. I don't think that's an outrageous thing to say. But there is nerves at the Etihad as there has been for a number of months now, David. And if Palace get themselves into a position where maybe they nick an early goal or certainly make it a bit more stodgy and more difficult for Man City, the nerves will creep in. Of course, all it takes is a little bit of complacency at the start, if Palace start in the right manner, and City are just kind of just a little bit nervous, a little bit edgy about getting in, then of course something can happen.

47:38But look, like I said, I don't think anybody's going to dispute City. Very, very clear favourites. Yeah, indeed. But Arsenal still clear favourites for the title, of course. Jim, did you see in the news that former Arsenal striker Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang has been dropped by Marseille for reportedly spraying a staff member with a fire extinguisher?

47:55Jim Campbell: Marcus, when you put it like that, this sounds like it's going to be a little bit of a silly story, but the actual details of this are sensational. Fire away. So, obviously, Marseille have been in pretty terrible form lately. They're having a real kind of basket case of a season. Habib Bey is their current manager. So, as a reaction to this, he basically forced the players to stay overnight at the training ground. Now, there's quite a bit of debate in France about whether this is even legal, which is a great start, because, like, could he be done on kidnapping? Marcus, if the producer said to you, Marcus, you weren't at your best today, you have to sleep in the studio, what would you say to that?

48:36Jim Campbell: You go, well, you can't make me do that, can you? I'd grab a fire extinguisher and say, have something like this. Well, there you go. So, yeah, in the context of this, 36-year-old Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang decides he wants to liven things up, and he basically throws a party with about 10 other players, so they're running through the complex. He grabs a fire extinguisher and he sprays it over a fella called Bob Tari, who is in bed at the time. Poor old Bob. He's minding his own business. All over poor Bob and all over poor Bob's belongings. Now, Bob is part of the sporting administration of the club.

49:09Jim Campbell: He's a former world championship medalist in steeplechase. So he's a very accomplished, presumably quite serious man, right? And he was specifically there to enforce the curfew, right? So, Aubameyang, as the senior guy in the squad, is going, ah, forget all this. We're going to do the exact opposite of why we're here. Also, you know, because they're sort of there against their will, too. So, a bit of protest, which is perhaps, in some lights, not that unreasonable. It's amazing stuff. Do you admire, just a tiny bit, the rebellious spirit? I love it. Yeah, a little bit. It's a good old prank. We don't get enough of it.

49:45Absolutely. I don't know why, but I'm just picturing the Breakfast Club. Yes. No one in detention are in the running of arms. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the teacher's looking for themselves. A little bit like that. I'm picturing that for some reason.

49:54Jim Campbell: It feels like they are students on their first trip abroad. Yep. They're staying at the Hans Brinker in Amsterdam, that notoriously no-frills hostel that's full of absolute chaos, and they are just running wild. They're letting off bangles. Just making their own fun. Yeah. Marvellous. Staying with former Arsenal players, did you see that Wojciech Szczesny was on the Open Top Bus Parade through Barcelona after they won the league. I love it how... What career? Well, indeed. There was about three quarters of a million people out on the streets in Barcelona. I love that. They've won loads of league times.

50:30Back to back times. But still, though, we all celebrate the victories. Imagine what it would be like in London in potentially a few days' time, Jim. It's not crossed my mind. Yeah. It would be more than a few days, of course. Be odd to have the open-top bus stop. All we need is a victory in the last game. Yeah, that would invite some criticism, wouldn't it?

50:51Jim Campbell: I'd have to have way more sympathy with the criticism of that, haven't I? If there's a manager, I wouldn't put it past, though. Just imagine what this would be like if we'd actually earned it. Yeah, so we're going to have a fake one, and then you'll really want the real one. Yeah, so Wojciech Czesny, he was on the Open Top Bus Parade. He was having a vape, apparently. Doesn't hide it anymore, does he? What's the point? Well, I mean, because he was caught smoking in the showers that time, yeah, which is quite good. and before the the massive game against Real Madrid the Clasico which obviously Barcelona won and thus clinched them the league he said before the game everyone was talking about getting ready for Real Clasico well I was checking if it was a foul on David Raya he knows what side his friends butted on if you would check yeah and Yamin Lamel holding up a t-shirt saying thank god I'm not a Madridista in English incredibly he also quoted Jude Bellingham didn't he?

51:47Jim Campbell: Oh did he? On his Instagram story I think when Madrid beat Barcelona back in the winter in his in Bellingham's Instagram story he said talk is cheap and you know Lamin-Jumal quoted that this weekend in his own Instagram story he's a salty boy isn't he? He is he very much is alright everybody before we say goodbye it is within the realms of possibility that heart of Midlothian could win the Scottish Premiership tonight yes Yes. They play Falkirk at home. They will be favourites for that. Celtic travel to Motherwell. Celtic will be favourites. However, Motherwell very good at home. Yeah. There are obviously three scenarios that play out here.

52:30The Hearts win it tonight. The league, that is. Or they go to Celtic Park on the final day needing a result and they get that result. Or they go to Celtic Park needing a result and Celtic win and Celtic win the league.

52:44Jim Campbell: That could be the biggest sickener of all time. Indeed. History and rational thinking might suggest that the last one of those options is the most likely. The fact that the other two are particularly, more so the second one than the first, is also a distinct possibility. You're right, Jim. It's hard to even think about it. I know, I can't. The fact that they could be Scottish champions tonight and yet might have to go, almost certainly will have to go to Celtic Park. The thing is, it's one of those things where in the stress of the moment, I'm sure everybody of a heart's persuasion would rather win it tonight in those circumstances.

53:23Jim Campbell: Oh, yeah. But if you could know you were going to win it and then choose how you won it, it would be the victory at Celtic Park, right? So it can still be absolutely epic. Yeah, if I was to write the script, yes, and they would all be doing the beaty around the place in celebration. however winning it at home at Time Castle but that does require Motherwell to do what they once did before and deny Celtic you know a title I mean can Motherwell like they did when they denied Celtic the title and they handed it to Rangers on the last over two late goals can they just for one night and one night only get Terry Butcher back in the dugout is that too much to ask I know he'd be up for it yeah sure for heart's sake do the right thing by the way oh my goodness anyway I'm going to have to go because otherwise I was going to start having kittens thank you for listening to the Football Ramble part of the Acast Creator Network friends of the Ramble don't go anywhere keep listening for Ramble Uncut and if you're not a friend of the Ramble head over to patreon.com forward slash football ramble to sign up now thank you very much Jim thank you thank you David thank you love the house

54:40Jim Campbell: The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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56:12Jim Campbell: The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more.