The Preview Show: The Fire Starter

0:00You know the roof's on fire everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble Preview Show. Great win for Forrest and it's North London Derby time. It's Friday, 22nd February. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Jim Campbell. And I'm Vidusha Hunter-Raja.

0:24Hey, it's Friday, everybody. We've made it once again. Good to have you with us. and my goodness, what a weekend of football we've got ahead of us. We've had some last night, gentlemen. European football was still being played and we enjoyed that. Well, we'll get to all that in a minute, but I've got a question to ask everybody. Have you ever wanted to look as good as us here at the Football Ramble? Mixed responses, I'm sure. But if you are feeling sympathetic, now is your chance. Get your hands on some of the latest Football Ramble merch and you're guaranteed to turn heads. Turning heads, interpret that how you will.

1:02Like an owl. Roy Hodgson will be all over it. All over it. Which is what you want, really. We've got sweatshirts, or sweaters as they call them in some parts of the world, quarter zips, plus MyBiddyAunt t-shirts, tote bags, and goodness knows what else. Head to footballramblestore.com to grab yours now. That's footballramblestore.com. And I do believe that some of those Ramble kits, which flew off the shelves, will be coming back at some point. At some point. Keep watching the skies and footballramblestore.com. Now then, last night's action. Fenerbahce 0, Nottingham Forest 3. What a win for Victor Pereira in his first game as Nottingham Forest manager, Jim Campbell.

1:46Yeah, it's brilliant. Generally, can you get a pint in Turkey? You'd more like to get a little bottle, wouldn't you? I'm not sure if that's the most common measurement out in Turkey. You can drink there. Sure. So first the points, even though this is a knockout game, then a little beer. It doesn't quite have the same ring to it, but it's brilliant news for Vitor Pereira. It's brilliant news for Nottingham Forest. They were really good, weren't they? They look really comfortable, really confident in a way that they haven't done in the Premier League for a while. No, no, they haven't done under Ange Postacoglu and Sean Dyche.

2:17Yeah, it's almost like they put all their good players on the pit and said to them, play well. Go and do the things that you're good at doing rather than being like, we're all fucked, you're shit, and I'm your saviour. Weird how differently it's found out. What Victor Pereira said. Ooh, you want to try and score a goal, do you? I asked them to... Did you hear this, Ian? He wants to score a goal. I asked them to express themselves on the pitch and they did. They did. 3-0, could have, perhaps should have been 4, maybe even 5. they'll take three though Murillo's goal lovely one obviously we know that he is a good ball player he loves running with the ball he loves taking shots from range this goal was good for two reasons one a bit of old school Lucio yes I like that and two he's now going to shoot all the time yes he did take the slightest little nicks off the defender on duty he didn't see it he was wheeling away celebrating and I'll tell you what that was Edison in goal Jim I know not bad some of the names Edison Skriniar was there Nelson Semedo Gwendoosie Angolo Kante that midfield of Gwendoosie there you go I was just going to introduce you that that midfield of Gwendoosie and Kante has got such a sort of like football manager feel to it isn't it like sort of 10 years from now even it does even Soyuncu came on yep could have gone off again as well it's been a good week for former Leicester City fullbacks doing absolute shite yeah he's um he's a he's always reminded me of a vampire see on shoe and i realized yesterday it's because of his hairline it's basically v-shaped yeah it's incredible full-on dracula stuff like all sort of vlad the impaler style depiction of dracula yeah but like a disney version of those characters because he has a bit of um what's his name from uh shrek lord farquhar yeah yeah yeah about him yeah which is a terrible look for a centre-back it is a little bit Fenerbahce of course had an Englishman on the bench Archie Brown now you know now you know it was Forrest you're a West Ham fan it sounds like he should be it was Forrest's biggest ever away win in European competition that's how easy it is get them playing like that yeah I was going to say does that sound ridiculous I suppose it kind of makes sense they haven't been in European competition for an awfully long time but they also had been in European competitions for a long time a long time ago won the European Cup twice.

4:46So that is very surprising. Yeah, when you put it like that. But it was, I mean, it was a lot more competitive. You could argue back then the riches of the top flight in England weren't what they are now. But still, it is a stat that Vita Pereira owns with his new Nottingham Forest team. Morgan Gibbs-White was very happy with Vita Pereira. And it did sound like he was talking freely, you know, not against his will. He said, we had a real identity today. And he talked about Vita Pereira coming in And he said, we've all just taken to it. You know, the idea that Pereira said to them that, you know, you're going to play with an identity.

5:22Don't worry, lads. I've got it all sorted kind of thing. Because they have gone through some, you know, the last two managers, if it's still even worth mentioning Postacoglu's name with regards to Nottingham Forest. But still, but Dyche, we said for so long, didn't we, that, you know, he doesn't know what to do with this attacking talent. I mean, it turned out to be very generous when I said, you know, he won't be there past the summer. Well, not even February he managed to get out of. But Vitor Pereira has gone in there and it's not a tough act to follow. And a manager who, lest we forget, did very well with Wolves initially.

5:59But of course, there's bigger problems at Wolves. So whether he was... They were basically asset stripping that team, weren't they? Yeah, so I don't think it went against him necessarily how it ended at Wolves, as we see where they are now and how they're kind of floundering around a bit. Although they do get the odd point here and there, of course. But on joining Nottingham Forest, Pereira did say, it's a pleasure to be here. Back to the fight. Love it. Love it. Come on. Nice. I mean, we've mentioned this before, but it is a fantastic gig to be able to get yourself, isn't it, as a sort of firefighter at the Premier League level.

6:35Because, you know, if you can get yourself two or three jobs, your family is set for generations. That's all you need. It is. It's all you need at this point. It's quite, you know, if you think about it, so Pereira's taken over from Daesh. He's come in as a firefighter. Daesh used to be a firefighter. Indeed, I suppose he was brought into the forest job to do just that. And obviously in a forest, that's much harder. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. It's very dangerous. Depending where the wind blows as well. But the other thing is, you know, we'll go on to it later, but Igor Tudor's in a spurs to firefight.

7:11are these foreign managers taking British jobs? Oh, I see. Yeah. Okay. Not a fan. No, I see. Not a fan. Yes. But put that mask back on because we need to continue talking about Pereira. On working with Maranakis again, of course he did previously, Pereira said, you're talking about firefighting. Well, this is quite the opposite. We created fire. Nice. In Greece, there is a fire inside. They like to see the energy. Did they bow? Yeah? It feels like they... Did they bang? You think that's a bit Wuthering Heights? There's a bit of like... Yeah, I suppose that's a good... Everyone's hot under the collar because of this movie.

7:51Yeah. They are no different. Jacob Elordi and Margot Robbie, Vitor Pereira and Maranakis. Who's at the window? It's Maranakis, isn't it? Yeah. Yes. Or it might just be Sean Dyche. Vitor, it's me. We're getting all there. But look, it was a great win for Forrest. and my goodness, they needed that. At a place which, again, you look at the names on that team sheet, which we just read out, 3-0 is a very, very good. It's a good win anywhere. Even if you're playing a minnow, even if you're playing an actual little minnow. Little slug. Yeah, exactly. 3-0 away from home. Yeah.

8:31The tie's all but done. You can't put yourself in the mindset saying it is done, but it's all but done. It's a brilliant win for Forrest this year. Yeah, I mean, it's not just the, as you say, it's not just getting the tie pretty much done, it's the buzz it creates. Oh, yeah. And that could not be better in terms of Pereira's first game because the Premier League is a stressful experience for them. So it's good to have had that, started with that little holiday, for the buzz to have appeared. Everyone's going to be really, really fired up. Okay, he looks like he might be able to get the tune out of this team that we all see is possible because of the component band members in it, shall we say.

9:08So that's a really exciting thing. And that is a brilliant, brilliant way to start off the vibe, right? Because if you look at the, all up and down the Premier League table, or indeed any league table at this stage of the season, a lot of teams, they know who they are by now, right? So they are like, they are in the groove of the type of football they're going to play, of the, of, you know, the level they're able to hit. All those things you are often facing. Speaking down Spurs before the, but you're also, you are quite often facing sort of the best version of a team in the this chunk of the season.

9:38Forest haven't had the luxury of being able to find that because of the absolute chaos in their dugout. That's true. So Pereira, if he can hit the ground running, get them playing well straight away, they have a chance of ending the season with some positivity, right? Yeah, absolutely. In the same way, West Ham's form changing under Nuno was dreadful news for the teams around it. Pereira coming in and that performance there is terrible news for West Ham and dare I say Spurs and Leeds as well and obviously Burnley to be generous to them. But I mean, again, you look at that front line that Forrest had in that game, Hutchison, Gibbs-White and Hudson-Odoi behind Igor Jesus.

10:14It's decent, there's goals there. And with Gibbs-White, one of your faves, Vish, scoring and also lovely assist when he flicked on the corner and he might have had another goal and so on. You can just, ah, there's the player. Yeah, yeah. I suppose it's one of the things we've spoken about before with Morgan Gibbs-White, particularly when we talk about what his England credentials might be, is you don't necessarily know how he'd fit into a more structured system. Not because he's a chaos merchant, but because he loves getting everywhere. One of the reasons we admire him as a player in the Premier League is because he is quite all action, box to box.

10:52The very best of Forrest is often linked to the very best of Morgan Gibbs-White. That's probably the biggest compliment you can pay him. So the fact that they're in this position, it's not surprising that he feels a bit lost, that he's come out after a game like this. to be like, oh, we've got an identity. Yeah. Because he's got a bit more freedom. We've got our identity back. Yeah. Always a good thing. But you're right though, he is such an important player and you got the impression, and maybe Forest fans might disagree with it, they might not, but with Dyche, it was like, right, don't worry, Morgan, I've got a job for you to do.

11:20Do you know what I mean? We're not going to play to your strengths. We're going to do all this sort of stuff and it didn't work, hence he's lost his job. They host Liverpool on Sunday at 2pm. Beat them three now at Anfield, so nothing to worry about. Yeah. Yes, no doubt Sean D 'Arche will be reminding everybody of that and fair play to him if he does. But you're talking about Pereira needing to hit the ground running, Jim. Well, my goodness, you know, there's a stern test for them. Absolutely. They are at home, aren't they? So that is a great opportunity for hopefully that positivity in the stands to kind of really be a factor for the team.

11:55But he's also an absolute pig of a game to start with. Especially as the way Liverpool are going about their business at the moment. Yeah, well, they've lost two of their last four, haven't they, Liverpool? I suppose that Sunderland game had more in my mind. I can see them approaching the game like this, you know, just nothing silly, and let's kind of be solid. Yeah, absolutely. And Arna Slott has managed to kind of make them a bit more like that, hasn't he? And you would think that Forrest shouldn't pose too much of a problem from Liverpool's point of view now that they've kind of adjusted their style and kind of really adjusted their ambitions a little bit.

12:29and it is about not being silly in a game like this, isn't it? And just kind of managing it into oblivion. So, yeah, I think, I mean, Pereira will be judged more on the games where Forrest would be expected to get a point or three points from and all that sort of cliched stuff. But I think, actually, do you think this is really more about the performance then for Forrest? Yeah, I'd say so. Because they won't be expected to win this game. Yeah, I'd say so. But again, though, this season in the Premier League, you are right, of course, Liverpool would be, you know, favourites for it. but this season doesn't matter who's turning up you have a chance you do and Pereira will be very keenly aware of that so a fascinating encounter at the city ground at 2pm on Sunday and I can imagine a fair few neutrals might tune in if indeed it's on the telly which I haven't checked so you can listen to it on the radio if it's not on the TV or a stream yeah what?

13:22you're getting a bit car-based on the hell here you can draw a little flick book of how you think the game's going to be You can go to the match. Whatever. Now, Crystal Palace are hosting Wolves on Sunday at 2pm, but they drew last night against a team from Bosnia. It won all. Their poor form continues. They've only managed one win in 2026, just one win in their last 15 games. Palace, I mean, 70%, or more than 70 % possession in this match, and yet didn't seem to do that much with it. In fact, there was slightly, I say slightly fortuitous, in the context of the referee was asked to go to the screen and see whether he thought it should be a penalty or not, and he didn't give it, I thought it was probably the right decision.

14:07Agreed. Hence, I say, within the context. But Klasner was very frustrated. You could see it at full time. Well, I mean, he seems to have, his own ability seems to have just completely deserted him, doesn't it? Obviously, there's so much going on at the club that he's unable to get them playing in the way that he wants and with the kind of consistency that he wants. And essentially everything that he's made his name on is just clearly, for whatever reasons, he is not able to operate at that level at the moment. And obviously the Palace fans know he's going at the end of the season anyway. They're just fed up with it.

14:41And it's completely understandable, isn't it? It's kind of just signaling that he's going to push that ejector seat at the moment. The red light turns on on it. and the Palace fans were kind of in a tiny little cage like Pete Pete sent a a picture of David Blaine his little plastic box into the group chat this morning and it's like that was what it was like it was far up in one corner there's barely any home fans in the stadium anyway so they are just in this little cage singing you're getting sacked in the morning doesn't look like a particularly enjoyable experience especially when Palace are drawing this game ridiculous to draw this game and you know what I am I think they will go through, but I'm not hugely confident with them in this competition.

15:24I mean, which is such a shame because... No, yeah, absolutely. You've been saying all season, Marcus, and we've been agreeing with you all season that they really should win this competition. But that's based on paper, isn't it? That's not based on anything we've seen from them so far. Yeah, I mean, my thoughts on that obviously changed, but it's more of the general point about the Premier League side in the Europa Conference League because of the finances involved. Absolutely. So much richer. I mean again like they're playing Zrinski-Mosta a side who I don't think I'd never heard of them I'll be honest I don't think many people would have done to not win the game when again you've got so much they have to go through otherwise this is really really bad for Palace and I'm sorry Palace fans for sounding like a bit of a bore here and so many other people again at the start of the season they have the disappointment of going in the Europa Conference League but you think to yourself well but that is as much of a guarantee to go far in a trophies you'll ever get.

16:23And look, they're still in the competition, so they could still win it, or they could still go far, so I don't want to be silly here. But, you know, won the Community Shield, the tail's up, da-da-da-da. But something you said there, Jim, about Glasner, it's not only you lose one or two big players, or two specifically big players, nearly lost a third one as well, that is big, but clubs, like it's frustrating but mid to smaller Premier League clubs are kind of used to that and they you know they've got a big fee for Eber Etcher it's Glasner who I think he's the big loss isn't he because they but his head's gone almost yeah I'll complete it and that's it though so with the stuff he's saying if they hadn't won the FAK if they hadn't done all this kind of stuff he'd have been out the door and so he's there for whatever reason he's still there whether it's just he's thinking maybe he is feeling loyal to the fans although it doesn't seem like that but maybe I'm doing him a disservice but maybe he thinks well bloody hell I am bloody minded enough to sort of I'm going to stay here and finish this job whatever the reasons but normally he would have gone and so yes he still cares you see his frustration and so on but his performance as manager has been shot to pieces well surely the carrot there Marcus is this competition right because he can end his tenure there with another trophy which a European trophy after their first FA Cup would be absolutely incredible but the way they're going about it it's very hard to sort of look at it from this position and think that they're likely to win it as silly as that sounds well they're fortunate that they are playing one of the sides who you know we could call them a minnow I think in the conference league because it's easier to pronounce I think that you know Palace should win that second leg I'm 75 % sure they will Yeah, this is it, isn't it?

18:13They do not inspire any sort of confidence at the moment. No, it's a shame. Well, they are hosting Wolves on Sunday. Jürgen Strand-Larsen up against his old side, of course. Wolves are one win away from avoiding being the worst Premier League side ever. Yeah. I mean, it's February. They're going to manage that. You would have thought so. It's a specter for every single bad team, isn't it? Up until a point. And they are a bad team. They are. They are. Jürgen Strand-Larsen has already doubled his goal tally for Palace. with two. So, one goal in 22 for Wolves this season. Already beaten that. Yeah.

18:48So that's going to be a really interesting kind of subplot to this, isn't it? And if Wolves beat Palace, of course, then they will double their amount of victories in the Premier League this season. So, but that is the type of game where you look at that and Palace will think, oh, bloody hell. Like, that should be a game where you're thinking, right, you've got to target the three points. Of course they will. But right now, with Palace, the way they go, I mean, you know, they did get a victory against Brighton, I understand, a couple of games ago in the league. But we shall see how that one pans out.

19:17Elsewhere in Europe last night, in the Europa League specifically, Celtic lost 4-1 at home to Stuttgart. Kasper Schmeich had a bit of a mare in goal. I think that Martin O 'Neill had a bigger mare in the post-match press conference than Kasper Schmeich did in goal during the game. That's really interesting because I would put Kasper Schmeich's poor performance down to his age because he looked very old. Being unable to shift from one direction, from one side to the other. quite a problem if you're a keeper Martin O 'Neill's performance down to his age probably it certainly sounded like it talk us through it Marcus because this was amazing so it was Martin O 'Neill's 1000th game in management great calls for celebration what a milestone what a milestone how did he mark that what a cheery occasion yeah a big home tie to Stuttgart in the Europa League yeah I mean Celtic were hammered as I say Cash was smart and made a couple of errors O 'Neill tried to defend him which was fair But after the game, also something slightly amusing that O 'Neill said, that sense of humor does pop out, even when he's angry.

20:16He said, if I was giving advice to young managers, don't wait until you're 73 to get your 1 ,000th game. That was the highlight of it. But he was furious with the Celtic fans because they did a little protest just after, I say a little protest, it was a very effective protest right after kickoff where they threw balls, tennis balls among them onto the pitch. So it wasn't just tennis balls? Well, no, I think mainly there was a couple of, I was going to say, that's actually a really effective protest if it's balls from essentially any other sport. Do you remember, who did, was it Charlton? Yeah, that rings of bell.

20:48It's a really, it's a really effective protest. You could easily get them on the pitch. It's going to disrupt. Presumably quite easy to get in the ground. Four minutes it took to get rid of the ball. Four minutes the game was held up. The reason why I say, I think it was mainly tennis ball, but I did see a red ball at some point. I thought, was that Vish? Were they all cricket? Get one on there. No, very dangerous. No, there were loads of yellow and kind of orangey red tennis balls. Oh, right. They were all tennis balls. And they were what? So they were protesting the club's owners? Yeah, the board, which we know has been a bit of a shit show at Celtic.

21:20So they're venting their frustration. But of course, it was just after kickoff. And then it does hold up the game four minutes. So if you are a player, you know, you're ready to go and boom, and then it stops. I understand that. But O 'Neill said anyone who thinks that's a good idea needs their heads examining. Some years ago, this was an incredibly intimidating place to come to. That sort of thing does not help. Stuttgart come to this football club and find a lot of infighting going on and things being thrown onto the pitch. If I'm a Stuttgart player, I'm thinking I'm pretty happy in this environment, if that's the case.

21:49Now, that has been cut down quite a bit. And it was directed at a cloud, wasn't it? But I mean, he was furious with the fans. Yeah. O 'Neill. He's in a position where he sort of can be though, can't he? Indeed. At the same time, The point of protest is to make noise when it's most visible. Completely. To go out there and disrupt. So this is absolutely the right time and place to do it. He also has to understand that it's the reason he's there. Yeah. How bad it is. And you just touched on a point there that he's always going to defend the board for that very reason. Exactly. And I think that St.

22:30Martin, you know, great relationship with the Celtic fans. and he'll always be a legend there. I don't want to talk out of turn, but I think that's not a controversial take or view. But yeah, just really kind of having a big old go at the fans there. I'm a bit like, okay, mind how you go. Marcus, would you say that was the worst thing he said in the press conference? Believe it or not, Jim, I don't think it was because he also was bemoaning the lack of money in the Scottish game, which is understandable. Yeah, completely. And it is tricky, you know, for the likes of Hearts to compete for the title.

23:02Really tricky, by the way, Martin. I love the idea of him watching that press conference being like, the fucking cheat of you.

23:12He was talking about the lack of money and he was saying about how the riches of the Premier League and even the Bundesliga, they can spend 50, 60 million or whatever on a player, blah, blah, blah. Okay, I get that point, so it's difficult to compete in Europe. And Celtic haven't won a knockout game in European competitions since 2004 under Martin O 'Neill. Did he mention that? He didn't, but I don't think he needed to. But he went on to say, and this was the bit for me, eventually, if the SPL, hasn't been called that for a little while, Martin, Scottish Premiership, eventually, if the, I'll edit it for him, Scottish Premiership, belongs to the Premier League, I don't think we'd have a problem.

23:49Oh my God, that is unbelievable. Can we not be privatised by the Premier League? How would that work as well? Like a little overspill league. I think, you know. Yeah, like... Premier League might say, we've got room for just two of you. Yeah. Like a bit of hard scope. Thanks for that. Thank you. How are you going to fit us into the Premier League? No. No, no, no, no. You're going to have to work your way up there. You're just an overflow car park. Yeah. If we need to use you, we'll use you. Yeah. I mean, presumably what? Would there be like B teams from Premier League teams in the SPL? It's not the SPL.

24:27But it will be. Yeah, maybe. It'll be because it'll be part of our family now. Yeah, mad. I think his press conference stopped short, but he also couldn't suggest Glasgow as a city joining forces against Europe. Is that right? Yeah. So they still compete as Rangers and Celtic in the newly formed SPL, newly reformed SPL. But in Europe, they'll combine. Right. Yeah. like a Megazord would they get one of the Premier League spots? no they'll have to plane pull into Europe with some of the Premier League sides I think we should go for a break coming up after this it's time for the North London Derby

25:22here's the problem you've got champagne players where you need pint you need beer players well back to the football ramble everybody Jason Cundey on Spurs there ex Spurs man Jason Cundey who's a lovely bloke I've met Jason Cundey a number of times lovely lovely I love the way he just says pint in the middle of that yeah yeah yeah get that but well he's channel in the spirit of Vita Pereira, of course. And now, everybody, before we move on to the rest of the Premier League action, including that North London derby, there's been some debate online. There's been a mass debate, Jim, online as to what I said on Monday's show in response to Vish's story about Ben Stokes telling him off.

26:01Vish thought I said, fuck me, Ben, which, of course, I didn't say. I said, fight me, Ben. So we've gone to VAR, and this, everybody, is a reminder of what I said. Fight me, Ben. I'm hearing Yanny. Some people are saying Laurel. Yeah, I'm just hearing blue dress. Well, I was about to say, what colour is the dress I'm wearing? Come on then. Fight me, Ben. Fight me, Ben. Yeah, stop playing it. But yeah, that's fine. Do you know, we've actually, I'm going to play what I said and what Ben Stokes replied. Fight me, Ben. Do it.

26:38quite clearly that says fight to me clearly it says fight me doesn't it it does that's why we have this technology it's cost an absolute fortune and this is the first time we've used it it wasn't worth it can someone mock up an AI vision fighting Ben Stokes that would be good no don't do that because people will do that and he'll see it and he'll think you did it yeah look what I did for you right I'm going to give you a shoo-in I've wasted so much drinking water on this you better enjoy it okay then Spurs will be hosting Arsenal on Sunday at 4.30 that game will be on TV I guarantee it you heard it here second it'll be Igor Tudor's first game as interim Tottenham Hotspur manager Jim Campbell three points for one of these teams Oh, Jim.

27:34I missed my pound of flesh on Wednesday and then Thursday show. So I just want to say, before we get started on this, and then we can go on. I'll tell you something, Vish. You're, what, game in hand, 13 points off the first position. The players believe it. Do you remember? Man United, come on, talk to me. It's the Winter Olympics, so I'm going to indulge this comparison. But there was an Australian speed skater called Stephen Bradbury, who you might remember won gold in the Winter Olympics a few Olympic seasons ago when he was last ahead of five and they all collided in the final straight. And he just like went through shrugging and won gold.

28:25Is that Brentford this season? that might be Manchester United in potentially second maybe if things like really fall apart didn't even want to go the whole hog no Tom can you make a note to clip this up please let's not be silly but I mean but in the Steve Bradbury way it would require everyone to fuck up in front of them why didn't you go for first that was such a that was disappointing they're not going to get a second are they that was disappointing that was a bit Louis van Gaal Wayne Rooney saying but we can go for second okay we go for it you know and then they finish fourth yes But still, but Arsenal are going for gold, Jim Campbell.

29:00Absolutely. So, I mean, one of the narratives around this game, obviously, is that since Tottenham last played, Arsenal have had three games. And as we could see from the performance the other night, they are a tired looking team. But I think actually, from Arsenal's perspective, the problem they're having at the moment is playing coherently under pressure, right? And managing that mental pressure within games. and that is just always the case in a North London derby, right? So this is exactly the thing they need to get better at. There is no better testing ground for that, especially as an away game.

29:32So they need to embrace that. They need to look at this as an opportunity to kind of be calm under pressure, manage their own kind of anxieties and just kind of be sensible and be coherent and just take this game to them and kind of banish some of the problems they've had in terms of kind of managing games to within an inch of their lives so that they'll actually just become really predictable and end up inviting pressure on themselves, which is something we touched on yesterday on the show. So, yeah, it is one of those games where I think the narrative, it feels like Arsenal will drop points, doesn't it?

30:05Just the way that kind of football works and the way we feel we can see stories coming and developing. And obviously Arsenal have a say in their own destiny. They need to be really aware of that, really switched on, and they need to kind of really give this fixture the respect it deserves because despite the troubles that Spurs find themselves in, they are a bit of an unknown quantity now obviously Igor Tudor doesn't have experience of English football but sometimes people hit the ground running right they don't know so they can't really prepare for what to expect from Tottenham which for a manager like Arteta who's so details driven will be something that he's not used to so yeah they just have to focus on themselves and essentially focus on the things they've been doing badly and eliminating those and if they do that they should win the game something you said I think might have been yesterday that Arsenal when they had that lead against Wolves and they've done it previously is they then just almost stop playing and go right this will do but they don't manage the game and see it out well they don't keep the ball make it difficult well they become risk averse and that invites pressure on themselves totally and it's funny because you then hear and I know Arsenal fans have come under a lot of scrutiny this season particularly from other fan bases but you hear a lot of other Arsenal fans saying just see the game out see the game and there's and other fans have other opinions i know we should go for it and and and they both can be the same thing it really depends on the time in the match in which you say it no it does but some fans are saying you know go and kill it off you know whatever it is you you can totally see the fan base and it is it's a bit like the team that they are scrambling around thinking ah we've got to get over the line ah we're not sure and you're right the nerves and you can you can see it all against wolves when that happens is the only kind of positive if i may try and spin on that is, obviously time will tell, is you go, right, this is so obvious now this is happening.

31:53Because they can go away and bat a lead, for example. They're always going to get a win here and some decent performances because they're a good side. But when that happens, Arteta has to really have a good look at this and go, right, come on. What we're doing here is just, it's trying to be very efficient and go, right, we're just going to keep doing this and we'll be fine. You're not going to be fine now. You have to do something a little bit different now because otherwise Manchester City will go on and win the league. Oh, it gives them so much impetus. It does and they have to change it now.

32:23Like I said a little while ago I think at times Arteta and Arsenal remind me of the sort of towards the end and the sort of the worst bit of Southgate in England. You know I love Gareth Southgate. I don't want to go on about that just to remind everybody that I've not suddenly had a complete flip reverse on that. But towards the end, it was very stodgy and it wasn't good to watch and it was attritional and wasn't getting the best out of it. It felt a bit by rote, didn't it? Yes. It didn't feel like there was any kind of flexibility or kind of creativity within match scenarios. It was always process, process, flowcharts.

33:02What do we do now? What do we do now? Exactly. And Euro 2024, it was very evident that that was the case. And we'll rely on the moments we've got the great players. Saka will always produce something every now and then. But that, you know, and it was good enough to go to the final. Obviously, Spain were a better side than one. And in the Premier League context, it's kind of like that was working for a bit, but now Man City have got the wind in their sails and they'll fancy it. And if you're going on teams who have got players who can produce bigger moments, now Man City have that. Absolutely. Cherky, Semenyo, Foden, Haaland, you suddenly reel them off.

33:36The signings that Man City have made have really changed that. So Arsenal have to do something. and you say they need a big performance. Well, fine. As I say, I'm trying to think of their last big win. Would it be Leeds or am I forgetting one? Leeds was 4-0, yeah. And they beat Sunderland 3-0 after that. So against Spurs, who would you fancy playing in that front line? Because we saw Saka play in a more central role against Wolves. You've talked about getting Eber Eche in there because he is someone who takes risks and has a shot for crying out. Yeah, although, but Eche hasn't really convinced in a World Cup year as well.

34:10in the opportunities he's had. So there's talk that Martin Odegaard will be fit. It's possible that Kai Havertz will be as well. One thing I don't want to see is the front three of Martinelli, Jokerez and Madueke. It just doesn't work. It's been tried a good number of times and there just isn't a connection between those players. It feels a little bit like, you know, on X Factor where they just like decide to throw in three single acts together and make a match. Yeah, yeah. They're all doing very different things. Yeah, it's very, very much like that. They play like they've not met each other.

34:37I think they're good players. But again, if you're talking about approaching the business end of a Premier League title race. You have to have something more. And they need to gel between themselves for that, in whichever way you manage to do that, and those players haven't. So I would have Saka back out wide. I believe Odegaard's going to be fit, so I think it will be him. If Havertz is available, I think I might probably have him over there. That is a fair question. If Havertz is available. I'd have him ahead of probably Odegaard, because Jokeres has done quite well with Havertz behind him. So I'd be drawn towards that.

35:09You'd start with Jokoros for this game? If Havertz was available, yeah. Because Jesus hasn't pulled up trees recently either. Yeah, sure. I just, I wondered actually if this was the time to, I feel like a lot of Arteta's work with Jokoros specifically has been about trying to build his confidence. And I feel like that was a good enough reason to start him against Wolves because Wolves were terrible. And Jokoros didn't have a good game. And now I wondered if it was like, right, sorry, this is the serious stuff now. Yeah, I mean, well, there's a stat doing the rounds on Arsenal Twitter, or sorry, Arsenal internet, where Jocarez has not had a shot on target in 60 % of his Premier League games, which is just not good enough, is it?

35:50And if he can't control the ball, I'm being a bit flippant there, but that's such a big deal. Yeah, it is a massive deal. But with Havertz alongside him, he's looked a lot more effective. And effectively, Havertz is very good at finding the spaces to put Jocarez into, if that makes sense. Yeah, and also being next to Jokeres. So he doesn't necessarily have to take... I feel like a lot of the times with the hold-up play expected of Jokeres, it's about take the ball, hold the ball for at least five seconds while you're getting bombarded by defenders at your back and then lay it off to someone. And with Havertz a bit closer to him, the window where he has to hold on to it for is much shorter and then he has someone right there to play.

36:33And in most cases, Havertz can do the hold-up play and Jokeres can get into the space. and we've only seen a small sample size of it, but it has been effective. So I would be tempted to try that if I were Arteta. But again, it depends on that unknown of whether Havertz is available. So I expect it will be Odegaard in there and Sakharov wide. The other thing to say, I know we kind of mentioned it before, and it is a bit of a cliche to say that the derby means that kind of the form book goes out the window. I mean, that's true. But definitely from Spurs' perspective, the fact that, you know, I was speaking to a couple of Spurs mates who were at the Newcastle game, that was Thomas Frank's last game, and they said that was...

37:13The atmosphere was so bad that they were like, there's no way he's gonna take charge of this game, despite the fact that in that press conference, Frank said that he expects to be in charge for the North London derby. And he's not going to say anything else, is he? No, sure, sure. But because of that, like... because of how bad the atmosphere was under Frank it's going to be so different now there's a chance to make it different no no it categorically will be different completely because so much about the last few home games under Frank were rallying against him were kind of being dismayed about the team there was a stage there were so few people at the Spurs stadium for that Newcastle game that my mates who had season tickets on one side of the ground got a call from another mate on the other side with essentially the quote unquote like Spurs Ultra it's like there's loads of space here it was the kind of mini standing section they have you should come over because we've got a better view here wow a Premier League ground that's crazy but that's because of what a Premier Ship sorry a Premier a Carling Premier Ship ground is nonsense but they did that because people were sick to death of Frank and now it's completely different oh completely I mean that gloom is lifted right I know they're still angry at the board Marcus but I'm purely saying about the atmosphere not necessarily the way they're going to play it's going to be something of a curtain raiser of an era beyond Frank never mind a new era fine but in terms of sorry Marcus but in terms of the kind of situation that the Spurs fans will go into that game in they're free of Thomas Frank which they'll be thrilled about it's been a while since they've had a game so they'll be looking forward to that Arsenal are in a position where it looks like they're about to completely shoot themselves in the foot again.

39:04They're going to be in really, really high spirits. All I want to say, gentlemen, is, as I said a moment ago, there's a chance for the atmosphere to be very good for all the reasons you say. Because you're right, before kick-off, I think there will be a big atmosphere and they're thinking to themselves, bloody hell, if we can beat them, it will really dent the title hopes. You know as well as I do, if Arsenal, you know, big if, Arsenal score a couple of goals in the first half and Spurs don't know what they're doing, straight back. so it's all about I'm talking about within the 90 minutes yeah sure but before the game you're right I think if Spurs go two up if Spurs go one up then the atmosphere is going to be through the roof yeah right so again before kick off there will be definitely a different atmosphere in the plays but the board are still the board you know but a chance to give Arsenal one in the eye which they'll be up for very much so before we go before a break gentlemen I want to say that former Arsenal player Cesc Fabregas who's currently managing Como in Italy had a disagreement shall we say with AC Milan manager Max Allegri during the week now Allegri we know is a bit of a nutbag because the image of him a nutbag the image of him ripping his shirt when he was Juventus manager you know he didn't last long in the job after that it's fair to say but Jim Marcus I love Cesc Fabregas but Allegri is absolutely in the right ear which is why I'm surprised Fabregas did this because we know Allegri can go, right?

40:30So the incident resulted in Allegri saying to Fabregas, you are a child, you're an idiot, a child who became a coach yesterday. Now, Allegri was understandably upset because Fabregas left his technical area. So already, that's a naughty. Yeah, all right. Classic former Arsenal midfielder. Pulled on the shirt, pulled on the shirt of Milan's Alex's sailmakers preventing the player from helping his team stop a go by a dunk. It's unbelievable. Do you remember that clip from years ago, Donkeys years ago when it was like a five-a-side or a six-a-side indoor match and there's a player hurtling down the wing and the manager sticks his leg out and trips up the player, sends him flying in the last minute and then holds his hands up and says, what, what, what?

41:19It was so outrageous but because it was, I don't know, it might have been in the US like a college soccer game or it might have been in another part of Europe or something but because the game is an indoor football game but we just thought it was so absurd and so funny this is like same sort of thing this is utterly outrageous yeah I mean Allegri said next time I see someone run past me I'll just go into a sliding tackle that's ridiculous which he will imagine if a manager did that in the Premier League it would be leading the show you get won a game yes I don't hate that Fabregas it was just a little touch no what yeah Doesn't matter.

41:55Yeah, he's saying that like he's a player. To be fair, I'll take the yellow, but that's all it was. Not a big deal. For first one, ref. Look, managers can get booked as well, right? Does that apply to them? Surely. Because you say they get one a game, Marcus. Well, I don't know. I mean, Fabrega said Allegri's response was exaggerated. But I admit I shouldn't have done it. I mean, playing down the internet is outrageous. Absolutely outrageous. Stunning stuff. But more of it, I think. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah, good. I thought you would. Right, let's have a quick break.

42:39Welcome back to the Ramble, everybody. Manchester City host Newcastle United on Saturday 8pm. Usually I guarantee three points this one. I mean, you could try and talk up Newcastle and fair enough. But they're still on the way back from Baku. are they going to get there that's why it's Saturday 8pm are they going to get there in time for kick-off I mean that dreadful record of theirs at the Etihad they have to shift that somehow they've got a chance and look they've not been having a great season but we said against Villa use that as a bit of a launch pad you know a real confidence booster I can't imagine even though I've been critical of that Man City backline I can't imagine it will be remotely as charitable as that Carabag backline particularly in that first half which was a genuine disgrace It should have been 10-0 at half-time to Newcastle.

43:23Have you ever seen anything like that in the Champions League? No. It's mad at this, wasn't it? I mean, I know Gordon played well, and what did he score? Three or four? They didn't even have to play that one. But Gordon, you know how we used to play FIFA in the office sometimes, and you would score the same goal over and over again, and Pete would go, it's the same goal over and over again. By the way, describe that goal. Didn't you basically score from kick-off? Oh, there was that one, yeah. It's a bit of a glitch. You describe it, I don't remember it. It's a bit of a glitch. No, it is. it's a thing I think with FIFA players you know you basically just run it from kickoff but I think the way the players like there's a bit of a gap to do that I see right and Pete obviously got annoyed about it yeah yeah yeah and you would say everything I'm doing is available to you which was enjoyably aloof but it was a bit like that wasn't it Gordon was just like if I just run through this very specific channel I'm going to get a shot off every single time it was an amazing thing to witness it was yeah and I hope it continues on Saturday let's see him run it from the kickoff it's the last thing they'll expect but you do have ample opportunity to stop that Eddie Howe turning to Guardiola everything available to me is available to you don't say it back to me Pep don't say it back to me but yeah so Gordon of course 10 Champions League goals this season he's been again linked with a move to Liverpool or Arsenal surely they're not having him in Liverpool yeah I mean that's a funny one isn't it I think there is some truth in Arsenal's interest from the past yeah it's an interesting one Gordon himself said it's the same old same old I haven't heard anything they might want to tell me before they tell you meaning the media that's not a no Anthony no it's not a no is it so I think certainly as I understand it from Arsenal's perspective they have been interested in the past but I mean I don't know I mean I understand why he obviously could play slightly mixed bag season like Newcastle themselves an upgrade on Martinelli would he be he's kind of comparable to Martinelli this season isn't he in that he's been not at his best in the Premier League while doing really well in Europe.

45:22He scored a few goals, but also missed a few chances as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I suppose there's that. Maybe Harvey Barnes is the man. Maybe. We're responding to that news, as you say. He said, same or same old. And just sort of palmed it off. So, you know, we shall wait to see on that one. But look, Newcastle away at Man City. Despite that record at the Etihad, it's still a big game. You would very much expect Newcastle to be competitive. they do find themselves in a bit of form though Vish with that win at Villa and obviously Carabao that is three away games in a row isn't it yeah so that is the kind of confidence that they've perhaps lacked a little bit of time you know much has been made of their season we've already used the term mixed bag a few times describing them but Man City with that Premier League title now very very possible more possible well it's in the bag isn't it according to some people in the media how do you see this one going I am set against two very different things here where yeah I feel like Newcastle have been quite good over these last three away games obviously Bizzo gave them a big leg up against Villa but yeah they seem to have a bit more and at the same time they did also lose to Man City about two weeks ago in the League Cup Well, this is the fourth of at least five times that they will play each other this season.

46:51And City have kind of comfortably dispatched them in those two cup games as well. Yeah. The thing I will say about the presumption of Man City going on a Man City run, I don't think it's totally unreasonable. It's a very different Man City though. It is. Yeah. And, you know, it's as much based on what we've seen from this season as the fact that one of the key things about those runs was it felt very Kevin De Bruyne-centric. Oh, yeah. There was always a period, certainly in the back end of his Man City career, if you look over those last few seasons, where Pep would just take him out of the 11 for a number of reasons.

47:28I feel like one was to preserve him and the other was to get him angry. And there was the season where he came back and basically played as a false knight and was brilliant. there was also another season where he essentially was the De Bruyne we all know and enjoy watching in that he just pulled the strings from that number 8, number 10 position and everything thrived around him you're kind of waiting for someone to, or rather you look at that and you think of the run that they would have to go on to win the league and you're trying to pinpoint that De Bruyne that character. But when you say they They would have to win the league.

48:06Well, like I say, if they beat Newcastle United on Saturday... I mean purely if we're looking at it to the future, if they win every game, they win the league. Yeah. That's what I mean. They wouldn't necessarily have to... I don't think... I understand your point. They're not going to win every game, as you know. But the point is they will need to go on the kind of run that they've done in the past without the usual players who have been integral to those runs. But I suppose my rebuttal is I don't think they will have to go on that kind of run. Because Arsenal are going to drop more points as well.

48:33Totally. I mean, they've already lost five games this season, Manchester City. So when you're talking about those kind of runs, I mean, beating Man City, I mean, it was inconceivable before. Whereas now, like I say, whoever you support in the Premier League, whoever turns up to your stadium or where you go, there's always a chance. I appreciate... But that's sort of part of my point, isn't it? I'm saying that I don't see who will get them to that kind of immaculate run. Right, okay. Okay, you're right. They might not need it. They probably won't need it. I don't think they will. Whoever wins it, Jim, sorry, before you jump in there, Arsenal or Man City, they're not going to be perfect.

49:12We know that. It would be remarkable now if we were to talk about one of these two teams at the end of the season going, oh, they're one of the recent great Premier League title winners or anything like that. I think the current points total that Arsenal have is the lowest for a league leader since Leicester's title season. It is a weird season, isn't it, in that sense? I think, yeah, I was going to sort of go slightly back to Man City. I think you're going to identify a player who's going to be that. It's going to be either Semenyo because he's hit the ground running and he's already so reliable and gives you so much.

49:45As Pete said as well, he's sort of popping up as a bit of a fox in the box character sometimes when needed as well. So he's like, his versatility is fully on show with the quality of the players he's got around him or possibly Cherky as well. Cherky obviously isn't at that level yet, but he's got so much in his locker and he's a really from what I can tell a very consistent player as well and certainly kind of growing into the role that Guardiola wants him to play so I think those are the two where I'd look at those and go I think they're players who turn draws into wins Yes and I think right now Arsenal struggling to find those players really they have them obviously in Saka but this season he's not been particularly great Yeah his kind of output in terms of goals and assists has dropped a little I think he's been a little bit over criticised while I also recognise he's not having the best season.

50:32Yeah. I think that's about right. Could Aston Villa come back in? No. Why is that? Our Man United might get second, but Aston Villa can't do this. There's no room for Villa at the end. If Villa win their game in hand on Arsenal, they go five points behind them. Oh, yeah. I really don't see it for Villa. Really reluctantly. I want to. Villa is the best story out of the three, without a doubt. they're missing a big part of the midfield that makes them so they're in time midfield three what's the second best story out of the three fun right yeah come on sorry fun yeah fun that's not an answer which team no no the second best option you won't do it will he no no no because I'll tell you my third the second best option okay is a couple of lead changes between now and the end of the season culminating in that final game where it's and who wins it and who wins it right No, I don't care.

51:29That's my second preferred. And third is Man City because you can just throw it into the well. It doesn't matter if Man City is true. So second's Arsenal then? Yeah. Arsenal on the last day. Yeah. Okay, fine. We got him. So Villa is such a funny squad at the moment, aren't they? Because with Leon Bailey and Douglas Luiz coming back, it does feel like they're just on this weird nostalgia trip. Kind of expecting Savo Milosevic to pop up off the bench, you know? yeah and Tammy Abraham obviously there yeah absolutely of course yes yeah Jack Greenish to rejoin them in the summer come on come on well let's not get ahead of ourselves but Aston Villa v Leeds it's a classic Premier League fixture the 32nd meeting between these two teams in the Premier League doesn't that show you how long Leeds were out of the Premier League for because that feels so low yeah I know what you mean but it's still I think there's something classic about this fixture for me for some reason I think the colours are good aren't they maybe that's what it is White versus Carrot and Blue Maybe that's what it is Daniel Farker believes that Aston Villa are still in the Premier League title race He said Aston Villa are sitting position three in the title race so it will be a tough game Unai Emery has developed them into a European force He talks like one of those blue tick bots on X Yeah That would apply to anything Or like a snippet from a press conference on Football Manager Yeah Position three Yeah Well who will win the topics of this game you feel it probably will be Villa because Leeds obviously look a very different team under Farker in kind of recent days and obviously since they made that formation change that everyone talks about but you know Villa have been really consistent in winning games like this and they are obviously hampered without those midfield players that we mentioned it's McGinn, Tielemans and Kamara who are massive for them so they've adjusted the way they play a little bit But I think what's been so impressive about Villa under Emery generally, which has continued into this season, is the business-like way they do win these games.

53:34But Leeds themselves have been a great credit to the Premier League. They were one side we thought were really going to struggle. And now look at them. I mean, it's, yeah, again, bad news for them that West Ham have improved a bit and Forrest have got Pereira. But they're still very, very competitive. And it would be a wonderful story if they could do it. And these are the games where they can, I'd say, nick something. I don't think that's been disrespectful to a team who are third in the league. No, not at all, yeah. But they'll put up a fight. It's been reported that Aston Villa want to sign Harry Wilson on a free in the summer.

54:03That's the news I didn't want to hear. It's quite attractive, that, for Wilson. It is. Because I always thought, if it's a sideways move, you're thinking, ah, come on, increase his wages. Why would you bother? You can convince him otherwise. Yeah, but I was worried if Villa or Newcastle... Yeah, they're also the sort of team where you think, I would accept playing a bit less to go on a Champions League campaign. Well, yeah, because they'll have more football. So therefore, you know, you'll have more opportunities. So if they do get them, they get a fine player. But I hope they don't, for my team Fulham's sake.

54:33Right, everybody, we've come to the end of the show and I have to announce that we've got my biddy aunt this afternoon. It's Vish versus Jim. After my disgraceful performance last week, I have been put on the bench, rightly so, like a goalkeeper trying to do it all himself. And it's like, just, you need a bit of time out of the team, mate. You've been Chris Cavanaugh, haven't you? that would be a better well no because I'm now the officiator aren't I yeah yeah which is which is the the lowest you know place you can be put to form of life once you lose yeah yeah yeah in the game well Jim has a chance to win that belt and I'm sure a lot of the neutrals in fact maybe all of them will want him to do that Vish I would happy with this just being the worst part of my weekend that's where the bar is for me oh Jim don't say that everyone's I'm going to speak on behalf after the neutrals here.

55:21There are three outcomes they'd like. The best one is a gym win. The second best one is a Vish loss. Yeah. And the third one is a draw. Remember, I am officiating so maybe all three will happen. My buddy aunt will... A third challenger has entered the game. My buddy aunt will be available to listen to later today. Make sure to subscribe to the Football Ramble in your podcast app so that you do not miss it. Thank you very much for listening to the Football Ramble part of the Acast Creator Network. It's been an absolute pleasure having you with us. Thank you, Jim. Thank you. Thank you, Vish. Thank you.

55:54And thank you, Martin O 'Neill.

56:04The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.