The Scuff Boys

0:00Hey, I'm Pablo Torre, host of Pablo Torre Finds Out, and I have chased down a lot of strange stories, but nothing quite like what's inside a McDonald's quarter pounder with cheese. 100 % fresh beef, cooked right when you order it, hand-topped onions plus cheese and pickles in every bite, and right now, you can get one with medium fries and a drink for just$8, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only, prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California. And for delivery, fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery. There are two types of business owners.

0:39Those who are busy and those who want to be busy. Toast is designed for both, with tools to keep you humming and help turn grind into growth. That's how you turn busy into business. Toast, built for busy. In today's world, planning ahead isn't always top of mind, but not having life insurance can leave families facing difficult financial uncertainty during already emotional times. In many cases, loved ones are left managing expenses, debts, or long-term obligations without a clear plan in place. Life insurance is one way to help provide financial security and support when it's needed most. That's where Ethos comes in.

1:15Ethos makes getting life insurance It's fast and easy, and it's 100 % online. You can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and even get same-day coverage. There's no medical exam. You just answer a few simple health questions online, and coverage options are flexible with up to$3 million available and some policies starting at around$30 a month. Ethos has also earned strong customer feedback, with a 4.9 out of 5-star rating on Trustpilot, based on more than 5 ,500 reviews as of August 2026. Help protect your family with life insurance through Ethos. Get your instant free quote at ethos.com.

1:50That's E-T-H-O-S dot com. Application times and rates may vary. This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Grainger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Grainger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. so his operation runs smoothly no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Verizon knows that holiday math can be complicated. Okay, let's see. We got the four kids, four gifts each, six teacher gifts.

2:33Wait, oh, what did we get in? Sandy and the dogs. Oh, I can't forget the dogs. Know what doesn't need math? Simplicity Plan from Verizon. One plan, one price. Just$30 a line per month for you or the whole family. The holidays are complicated. Shopping our best deals and switching to Verizon is simple. For new customers,$30 per line includes auto pay and switch discount. Additional taxes, fees, and terms apply. Some days, getting the work done isn't the problem. Staying locked in is. AlphaBrain is Onnit's daily nootropic formula for cognitive support, designed to support memory, focus, attention, and mental clarity.

3:08Its formula with science-driven ingredients include theanine and Hooperzine A to support focus and memory. And it's caffeine-free. So when you're deep in the work, AlphaBrain helps support enhanced productivity and tune-out distractions. Get focused on what matters. Shop AlphaBrain now at onnit.com. Hold me like a pillow, yeah? Make me feel right. Want you to make me feel like I'm the only girl in the world. Welcome to Football Ramble. It is Thursday, the 5th of November. I'm Pete Donaldson I'm Luke Moore and I'm Vinicius and I'm Hunter Roger Leaves

3:54Sorry I was just completely sidetracked by that Why? Was it Rihanna? It's a bit of Rihanna yeah I think that came out like 20 years ago or something Yeah it probably would be now like it's time's marching on in it time is marching on waits for no man waits for no man for crying out loud how you doing guys it is a thursday a fancy thursday you both appear to be on the youtube and the video versions of the podcast to be in the same room a green background we're not vicious paintwork is much isn't it's yeah but vicious paintwork is much more nicely finished than mine right this paintwork in this room was done by the people who did before and not me uh if i had done it it would be noticeably worse i see no visual uh or visible um book books uh in the background of this i don't think do you you need to up your game you need to sort of um wear your knowledge less lightly on your sleeve but i don't read so i don't know i can't read i don't read it appears that you're you're coming live from a room in the science museum yeah Odds and sons and bits and bobs, yeah.

5:04Little bits and bobs. That's an old cup. That needs to be removed. Oh, that's absolutely rotten. For the Monster Energy drink, is it? Carabao. For the Carabao. No, I'm on the sneak energy this morning. Mango Meltdown. Transformers edition. Yes. The Champions League. Transformers edition. When was the last Transformers film that they have an edition of Monster Drink there? I simply don't know. All right, then. Let's talk about home furnishings and talk about the Champions League. Fenerbahce 3, Liverpool 2, proper Champions League fixture. This in the rain, under the lights, presumably the waterproof lights.

5:39It was good, wasn't it, Luke? It was good. As ever, the best part of seeing an English team go away to Turkey is seeing all the players playing for the Turkish club. I hate the phrase, the streets won't forget. I think it's invented by middle-class students to try and sound cool who don't actually really go to football matches. All the street. If anything, just an excuse for someone to talk about Michoud. It's like, yeah, I remember Michoud when he played and he was an average player. Great, fine. Anyway, you get to see players. I mean, the line-up for this player of Batch was particularly good.

6:19First of all, they're being managed by Dirk Kaut. Straight away, that's great narrative because obviously he used to play for Liverpool and it's just great to hear from him. then you I mean Romelu Lukaku for him he's looking very handsome these days he's really grown into his features he's matured he has definitely matured that's not for us all it was a low bar if that's not too unfair well he looked like Sloth from the Goody so yes it was a very low bar you've gone there I did think that but I thought I'm not going to say it that was quite a common comparison wasn't it yeah yeah it was at the time I thought it was unfair then Vish and I'll be very surprised not that surprised if I partook in it at the time Romelu Lukaku great to see him N 'Golo Kante, Gwen Doozy, Nelson Samedo, Millian Skriniar, Edison in goal.

7:02This list is ending at a really sharp point, I fear. Yeah, not so much Mason Greenwood, but I have to mention him because much like Clive Myrie in Mastermind, I've started the point. I have to finish it. Right, okay, good. Mason Greenwood as well, who, by the way, for whatever you think of him as a human being, and I think we all know what we think of him, he was very good last night. Yeah, he will excel in a side like that against, to be honest, really creaky back line for Liverpool. Real lack of depth in defence, that team. They haven't got anything good going forward from full-back and they just can't seem to defend either.

7:38And they were good for their win for the back here. Yeah, I thought so. The thing they were able to do which really harmed Liverpool was it's not like they took control of the game from Liverpool. they like it was the equivalent of like throwing all the scrabble tiles on the floor and be like right let's just have a fist fight over them you know who can get the most points because you and your brother Vish that isn't it at Christmas no we were this is going to sound really wanker we were more of a chess family me too I want to play you at chess but you keep you keep swerving me you stopped talking about chess Luke you stopped talking about chess you were a big like you did golf and then golf upset you and you moved on to chess and then you were talking big about your chess Chess career And you don't talk about chess There's a hole in my soul About that big Right I've got to fill it with something Right I've tried different things I started with chess I'm still there I'm still there to be To be challenged On the old app On chess.com I would happily play Vish I imagine he'd probably beat me Have you got the app Vish Or are you more just An in person kind of guy He's a chess.com No I was in person I was I was our school champion And then I entered Whoa No quickly Quickly I entered a national tournament and I got an absolute pasting and I didn't play again.

8:54Yeah, fair enough. That's the spirit. Oi, that's the morale we've got to teach our children. It was humiliating. Big leads. It's not the Homer Simpson thing. Don't need to do it. Don't worry about getting good at anything because there'll always be someone out there who's miles better than you so don't worry about it. Exactly. I thought that this wasn't much of a chess game last night. This was much more dramatic. I did really enjoy some people on the Fenerbahce side of the fence starting to try and tentatively frame it as our miracle of Istanbul. Liverpool are known for the miracles of Istanbul now we've got our own one it's like well I mean kind of it's a group phase game I don't know if it's going to live quite as long in the memory but I did like N 'Golo Kante rolling back the years I did like to see Romelu Lukaku do absolutely nothing and I also did enjoy seeing Ederson in goal I just completely forgot he had gone there and part of the Liverpool Man City rivalry over the years under Klopp and Pep Guardiola was obviously Edison was in one goal and Alisson was in the other.

9:53So that's a kind of enjoyable throwback. I do have to say that I thought that he made some decent saves and I have to, full disclosure, I've said this before and I've taken flack for it, so I should get back on the horse with it. I do think at his very best, Alisson's one of the very best to ever do it without exception. I don't think he's quite at that stage of his career now despite making a couple of good saves last night. I felt like... Is he 34 now? 34, 35? I don't know what age he is, but that sounds about right. But the point you made at the top of this, Peter, about the perhaps creakiness of the back four, even though I think Jacquet's been pretty good overall.

10:30He was terrible for the free kick guy. Everybody just turned round. He was a reversible jacket. No jacket required. No jacket required. Overall, I think he's been good. Anyway, the point being that I think I wonder if it's been informed by the kind of perceived creakiness, certainly last night, of Alisson Vishal. I don't know what you thought about that. Yeah, his positioning for the last goal was very confusing. When I saw it live, I gave him a bit of slack because Gakbo has that header and it makes his position redundant. But he didn't need to be there. He could have stayed in his goal. It felt like he was trying to...

11:05It's a weird starting position, I think. Yeah, he was trying to make something happen, wasn't it? Which is a bad move for any goalkeeper. You don't have a ball. It wasn't a great night for keepers last night, Fish, overall. No, I was going to say, Donnarumma's also having a funny time of it. We'll probably talk about that a bit later. But yeah, it's... I mean, you just said it there. It's a product of just... He's aging out of his peak years, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Well, certainly his peak form. And he's in front of a team that are just... They're still like... You can always see the progress with Liverpool every time you watch them, I think.

11:39It just... I imagine there are some Liverpool fans who just want it a little bit quicker because there are loads of teething errors. and I think that was on show yesterday as well. On the flip side of it, nice for Naoni to get his goal and I think he's now the second youngest goal scorer for Liverpool in the Champions League and he's someone who's obviously got a huge future ahead of him. They're in a position where they're playing him probably more than they'd like to, which is a product of this team that are in transition and trying to, I suppose, find their way back to the top. But yeah, it was just too skittish a game, I think.

12:16and Iriola's comments after the game were quite telling. He looked deeply frustrated. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? Is it really going to have that big an effect on Liverpool progressing to the Nats round? It was the Battle of Istanbul-ish. It was their Battle of Istanbul-ish, finally. But I think broadly, it seemed to me from his perspective that he felt it was a backward step in terms of wanting more control over games and absolutely not getting it last night. Yeah, I think that's right. But I do think, you know, you're away from home at Fenerbahce. It's quite the profile of players they've got, the way that Turkish side seem to be able to bring the chaos against Liverpool specifically in Europe is interesting.

13:00I think it was kind of more of the same. They played in a pretty kind of, I would say like a pretty frenetic way, which does make it hard to kind of control when you're in a position where, obviously they lost their last game, they're under a new manager, they're trying to figure things out, and I agree with you, your point about them kind of looking better and better each game, or looking more coherent each game is true. On Leone, I really like him, I think he's got all the building blocks you need to be really good in the Premier League, particularly because he's tenacious, he gets around the pitch, he's confident to, I mean, perhaps against Fenerbahce, although they lost the game, he's not quite up against, obviously the calibre of opposition he was against Arsenal, where he put in a pretty good hour, and then was withdrawn.

13:43But he was confident, I thought, going forward against Fenerbahce. He obviously pops up in an advanced position to score the opening goal. And that's, you know, you can't gloss over that. You know, away from home in Turkey, you know, not a hugely experienced stage of his career. I think it's impressive. I think he's got all the things he needs. I think, I hope that Arreola uses him more because, you know, in that area of the pitch, they have struggled over the last, what, 18 months or so. What are you talking about? They've given Graven Birch and Barry Slobs a new contract. Yeah, but Sir Boz...

14:14What do you call him? And they're Barry Slobs. And they're the Slobs. Sir Boz like him playing loads of different positions and he's still been consistently good. Yeah, McAllister and Graven Birch have had their critics and haven't perhaps hit the heights in more recent months. So there is probably a gap... I would say there's probably a gap there for someone to force their way in. Definitely. And I do think he's got all the tools. Anyway, I thought it was an entertaining game at the very least. and we can't be too patronising about it it's a massive scalp for Fenerbahce they're pleased about it and rightly so because Liverpool are a big scalp and it's a vital win for them if they want to qualify that's the first time they've won in the Champions League this season and they need to kind of move on from there they've got obviously other games coming up but they've got some tough ones right they've got Let's Go Madrid away they've got, who else have they got?

15:06I think they've got Shakhtar away as well So, yeah, I mean, to get a win against Liverpool is massive.

15:39therapy. BetterHelp has a wide range of licensed professional therapists who specialise in counselling, marriage therapy, family therapy and social work, all with the required education, training, exams and practice and with at least three years and 1 ,000 hours of hands-on experience. Whatever you need help with, BetterHelp can help you find the right person to address it. Insurance options may now be available nationwide with BetterHelp. With insurance, many members pay$15 or less. Some pay nothing. BetterHelp is now in network with more than 125 health plans and with many co-pays as low as$15 for eligible members.

16:16If you don't have eligible insurance or live outside the US, you can still get 20 % off your first month. Sign up and get 20 % off at betterhelp.com slash ramble. That's betterhelp.com slash ramble. Are you getting rewarded for paying your rent and mortgage? If not, you need to check out Built. Built members earn points on every housing payment, which can be redeemed for flights, lift rides, Amazon.com purchases, and more. Built also gives members access to its agentic neighborhood concierge in the Built app. It's connected to your home and over 50 ,000 merchant partners, so you can ask it to pay your rent, schedule a lift, and more.

16:55Just download the Built app, link any credit or debit card, then ask the neighborhood concierge pretty much anything. Download the Built app and join the membership for where you live at joinbuilt.com slash acast. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash acast. Verizon knows that holiday math can be complicated. Okay, let's see. We got the four kids. Four gifts each. Six teacher gifts? Wait, oh, what did we get in? Sandy. And the dogs. Oh, I can't forget the dogs. Know what doesn't need math? Simplicity Plan from Verizon. One plan, one price. Just$30 a line per month for you or the whole family. The holidays are complicated.

17:35Shopping our best deals and switching to Verizon is simple. For new customers,$30 per line includes auto pay and switch discount. Additional taxes fees and terms apply. There are two types of business owners. Those who are busy and those who want to be busy. Toast is designed for both. With tools to keep you humming and help turn grind into growth. That's how you turn busy into business. Toast. Built for busy.

18:03Yeah, Liverpool have lost back-to-back games under Andoni Iriola for the first time, which is quite stark. You finished the goal for Archie Brown at the far post, Virgil van Dijk, Alisson, most of the lads in their mid-30s having a brain fart during that goal. They're going to be watching that on the training ground. Not on the training ground, they're going to be in a room somewhere on the training development, complex and they're going to be shown that again and again asking why wasn't anybody picking him up at the far post Yeah, but do you not think the scuffed header Can you scuff a header?

18:41Yeah, I think that's a scuffed header A glancer I thought a scuff to me has to make contact with the ground first to scuff No, because you can You can get off a shot, can't you? Yeah, that's what I'm saying, you can definitely scuff a shot but I'm saying you have to drag your boot across the ground first surely I thought it was about the contact I thought it was about the contact on the ball rather than the contact I thought scuff was contact on the ball rather than scuff alright no you go I'm outvoted 2-1 you carry on I'm sorry for the interjection scuff boys I'll defer to the honourable gentleman scuffers I'll see the rest of my time you carry on yeah so like you know scuffing Raphael I think that I think that gives him a bit of an allowance a bit of you know makes it more understandable that they were out of position, even though, as we said, Alisson's position was a bit off.

19:32But, I mean, Jacke and Van Dijk this season, I think have actually been pretty decent. Jacke's looked very good, and by association, Van Dijk has seemed a bit more comfortable, despite your protestations that he's the worst player you've ever seen. I think the problem, and you probably see it more starkly in Liverpool with their right-back situation, is that with Conor Bradley's injury, with the fact that Frimpong just isn't really, he's not a right back, means that they've got to play Gomez out there. So it already feels like, you kind of alluded to it at the start of the show, actually, about the lack of depth in the middle of defence.

20:12And I suppose that's where Gomez would come in. Obviously, he started a right back yesterday. But I think broadly, you know, it is two defeats on the bounce, but it's against the defending champions in a game where Liverpool actually showed a decent amount, if not, you know, they could have been better, but they were actually pretty good and it was a good game back and forth and Arsenal just do what Arsenal do. And yesterday was a bit chaotic. I imagine they'd ride off. Obviously, I would love it if they fell to pieces because Manchester United play them at the restart after the international break.

20:44But I don't know, like, I think, yeah, maybe they'll have a conversation with them about the training ground, but it feels like one that they'd, you know, do well to forget quite quickly, I think. Yeah, I was also, you mentioned Archie Brown there. It's interesting to see him. He's had a very kind of itinerant, interesting career. Obviously, he comes through at West Brom, Derby County for a while, goes to Switzerland, and then ends up at Fenerbahce via some other European club I can't quite remember. Genk, yeah. Genk, that was it. And he pops up with a goal against Liverpool in the Champions League.

21:21All that he serves is a massive reminder of that he exists and that he's capable. You know, if he wants to, I'm not sure if he does want to, but he could earn good money in the Premier League if he wants to make a move back to his home country. Although I presume at Turkey he's making good money anyway because they always seem to in Turkey. So he went to Switzerland, Belgium, now he's in Turkey. Maybe he's just got a chocolate thing. Yeah, he might have. Yeah, it's a good point actually. He's just inter-railing. He's just inter-railing until he gets a bit older. Yeah, both. Should Fenerbahce have been given a penalty after Chimikas pushed Mason Greenwood inside the box?

22:02It didn't seem to be as contentious as those decisions usually are on core comms and comms. I think you're allowed to push Mason Greenwood though, aren't you? Yeah, I think you get a certain amount of pushing before it becomes silly. But yeah, I think you're allowed to do that. Ali McCoy said it's a penalty it's two hands not even one hand and VAR did not look at the incident couldn't probably see through all the rain potentially your VAR just rolled a tombola yes no yes no yes no seems to be seems to be how it goes yeah but Pete was it a sustained push was it a sustained I still I mean I enjoyed your take on the Izak push at the weekend I'm pleased someone did I found the person that did I found him endlessly I am endlessly fascinated with how VAR is administered these days.

22:46But Liverpool's Turkish problems continue. The Turkish problem. They've now lost six consecutive games against Turkish sides. They've not won in Turkey, with the exception of the 2019 European Super Cup final against Chelsea, since August 2010, when Roy Hodgson was the manager of that night in Trabzon, of a squad that also included Dirk Kaut. Nice. A bit of symmetry there. Yeah. Dirk Kaut's out on Isaiah. He was just an interim temporary manager. Emre, the Newcastle United, racer's midfielder, is going to be appointed as permanent head coach of Fenerbahce. So enjoy. All right, well, a new story that kind of has been bouncing around for the last few months and it seems to be coming to some sort of crescendo head, fulcrum, if you will.

23:33JJ Gabriel, the 16-year-old who told Manchester United he wanted to leave recently, he's supposedly reached a verbal agreement to join Real Madrid. Barcelona, PSG, Bayern Munich, all been interested in the player. And his camper are reportedly asking for a seven-figure salary. Now, I don't know how... The demands seem to include a million dollars, a million pounds when he's at Manchester United, which they clearly weren't willing to give. I think his dad's his agent or something. He used to be a footballer himself, didn't he? And also that he wanted to play in some early round League Cup fixtures, I think.

24:09I think that was kind of part of the agreement. There's been some demands. And now, I don't know how prevalent this sort of thing is, but JJ's dad is obviously asking for a million pounds a year, which sounds like a lot of money, but it works out, I think I worked this out a few months ago, 16 grand a week to secure what sounds like a really talented footballer, one of the most talented they've had in generations. Is he just too hot to handle? Can I also add another dimension to this, which is just that his dad has potentially, in my view, understandably thought, well, if I can't shake down this Man United regime, I mean, what regime can I shake down?

24:49I mean, everyone else is getting, everyone else is getting a king's ransom for doing nothing. Someone might even try in. I'll have a million quid, please. Yeah, I do, I do kind of understand it. But joke of the side, I do think, yeah, fine, it's 16 grand a week. You've done the maths, I haven't, you know, I'll defer to you on that. Never trust that. never trust me. This is about the smell test, right? He, He hasn't done anything. He hasn't done anything. He hasn't been allowed to play in the League Cup early round. You need to take into account things like attitude and commitment and advisors around him and all that type of stuff.

25:22And as we've seen time and time again, if you want to succeed at the very top level in football as a teenager, you basically have to have a really good head on your shoulders. You've got to be super committed, super focused, and ultimately a bit dull. And if you're not, and you start raising merry hell before you've achieved anything, it's going to put people's backs up. Now, I don't know the veracity of the stories and I don't know how good JJ Gabriel is. All I know about him is that he's been talked about for quite a long time. He's been a really hot prospect and a great talent and he's the kind of youth team player that, yeah, these kind of Twitter and Instagram accounts go mad about and you can see scouting reports about him and how good he's going to be.

25:59But ultimately, 16, right? So we don't know anything yet. I mean, he could be another Wayne Rooney. He could be another Ravel Morrison. and we just don't know. It's not surprising that Barcelona, PSG, Bayern Munich and all these other teams are interested in because they all will back themselves to be able to get a tune out of him and handle his dad and whatever the problem is. But I think if you are Man United, you need to be, even in the kind of fairly parlous position they're in at the moment, you need to be able to draw a line under it and say, look, he's not going to fit in where we are. He might go on and have a great career, fine.

26:30But we have to make our peace with it because we can't accommodate the demands we think are unreasonable coming from his camp. Vish, I mean, you remain out of town. I don't know how you feel about it. You probably know more about him than me. You know what? Not really because, as you say, like, he's not really done anything. I think everything is just on, you know, potential, obviously, at that age. It's been one of the strangest sideshows for Manchester United this season because it does speak to where the club are and just how things have operated over the last six months that have caused various different issues on and off the field, this being one of the key ones off the field, I feel, because there were promises about early season games, about minutes in pre-season, stuff like that.

27:22The kind of thing that I think is actually quite normal for clubs and dealing with precocious youngsters because there is so much interest in them that they, you know, you do tend to take them on pre-season tours and throw them into the action and keep them sweet, I suppose. And, you know, whether it's 16 grand a week to his dad or just minutes on the pitch, Manchester United haven't been forthcoming in that. I mean, it feels like a loss now for the club to be losing someone that all those clubs are interested in. and we'll probably have to have this conversation in 10, 15 years' time. Presumably, when we're talking about, I don't know, JJ Gabriel, Ballon d 'Or, this, that and the other.

28:10Oh, do you remember when he left Manchester United? What happened to Manchester United, by the way? Where are they? And by the way, you can see Man Utd in the first round of the FA Cup this weekend against the rookie town. Yeah, it's such a strange thing. I kind of from a pure football you know football supporters perspective I just want it done that's what I'm saying you've got to draw a line you've got to make your peaceful decision you can't you make a decision and the best thing you can do it's very hard to do because of the public nature of the sport but you've got to be able to just make your peace with it and never think about it again or think about it as little as possible there's loads of examples of players like wonder kid players right and there are there's every different type of story that comes off the back of a start to a career like this.

28:59And the Ravel Morrison one's a really interesting one. People will know about that one. I actually think a really interesting parallel is Martin Odegaard. Now, no one is suggesting that Odegaard or his family were kicking up in this same way, but he obviously starts off at a relatively small club in Stromgods there and starts being part of the first team at like 14 or 15 years old. He's signed for Real Madrid to a massive fanfare. He's the name on everyone's lips, the next wonder kid. And it doesn't work out for him at all. He makes a handful of appearances, goes on loan to different places, obviously doubles down, matures, becomes the player we now know who's a Premier League winning captain.

29:34So there's always a chance to redeem oneself if one needs to and to take a different path and all the rest of it. But I have to stop short of saying what I want to say here. But to allude to it, I would just say, look at the dad. I mean, look at the dad. The dad is the adult in the room. There's no coincidence these stories are coming out. what's the dad doing? Like you can't hold the 16 year old kid culpable for big decisions like this. That's why his dad's involved. Look at the dad. What is the dad doing? You know maybe it'll work out maybe it won't but at the moment it feels like if it does work out long term it'll be in spite of the dad rather than because of him.

30:12That'd be my take on it but I've not seen the kid play much so I don't really know. No. Is he better than Kai Rooney? Kai Rooney I keep saying it he's older than Max Dowman get him in the team. I guess kind of If you are a youth team player and you're 15, 16, you must be like, well, they've got to be knocking sooner rather than later. It's time for youth, isn't it? It's time for youth and beauty. It's been happening for ages, this kind of stuff. This is the most public, kind of, bitty version of this story that I can remember. And it might just be because of the age we're in. But Daniel Sturridge, very similarly, when he moved to Man City.

30:50Yeah, great example. Dominic Solanke, when he kind of forced his way out of Chelsea for that Liverpool move. Yeah, there were a lot of players littered through the league who have essentially, not their origin story, but they have come about through forcing moves elsewhere. Omari Hutchinson's another good one as well. Kind of basically did that out of Arsenal, forced a move to Chelsea when he hadn't really done anything for Arsenal and then didn't really do anything for Chelsea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, coming up after this, Mikel Arteta has been collecting clips to use against his haters.

31:50Thank you. That's where Ethos comes in. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy, and it's 100 % online. You can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and even get same-day coverage. There's no medical exam. You just answer a few simple health questions online, and coverage options are flexible with up to$3 million available and some policies starting at around$30 a month. Ethos has also earned strong customer feedback, with a 4.9 out of 5-star rating on Trustpilot, based on more than 5 ,500 reviews as of August 2026. Help protect your family with life insurance through Ethos. Get your instant free quote at ethos.com.

32:30That's E-T-H-O-S dot com. Application times and rates may vary. Most AI knows data. Toast IQ knows restaurants. It helps turn Detroit 75's numbers, plus what works across thousands of restaurants, into insights we can actually use. That's AI that's worked a double without a lunch break. Visit toasttab.com to learn more. Pay testimonial from an actual Toast customer.

33:19In-network doctors with over 250 ,000 providers across more than 200 specialties, you can read reviews from real patients, find a provider who feels like the right fit, see actual appointment openings, and book instantly. I recently had a last-minute health issue pop up and I needed to see someone fast. Instead of calling around or sitting on hold, I found a doctor on ZocDoc and booked an appointment in just a few minutes. It made the whole process so much less stressful. Now, taking care of your health just got easier. Download the ZocDoc app today. That's ZocDoc, Z-O-C-D-O-C. And book that appointment on your to-do list.

34:03All right, well, welcome back to the Football Ramble in the free state of Saxony. Manchester City gave Leipzig both their first home defeat and their first home goals conceded of the season. It's nearly December. I'm laughing. That's a disgraceful little stat, Lukey Moor. I watched this game and I bloody enjoyed it, I have to say. It was good, wasn't it? Full disclosure, I've been banging this drum for a while. I'm going to keep doing it. I know it's tedious, but I don't really care. I want Man City to lose every game, so I'm hoping that they would do so last night. So that's why I watched this one.

34:34I thought Arsenal would win fairly handily against Slavia Prague and obviously the Liverpool game was a bit earlier. This was a really good game, actually. I mean, there were some defensive anomalies. There were some fairly poor goalkeeping displays, but it was actually, I thought it was a game of good quality. I really enjoyed it. It took a little while to catch fire, but it was one of those games when you see the record between these two teams who seem to inexplicably play each other a lot and always been packed with goals. Once it caught fire, you knew it would burn. And it did. I tell you, the goal for Leipzig's first goal, which Baku scores, I have absolutely no clue what a 7 '4 goalkeeper of that reputation is doing.

35:24Again, you know, Pete, I'm not going to, I hate to invoke Villanova over 50s because he feels like a bit of a low-hanging fruit. But if one P Donaldson is in goal for Villanova over 50s and he concedes that, I'm going to be fuming. I'm not going to be fuming from the centre-back position. I'm going to be looking back saying, what are you doing? Well, it wasn't any reactions he didn't draw or make. It was more that he was just massively out of position. Well, he just arrogantly anticipates the cross. You need to be able to, you know, you need to, you know, I get there's been a spate of burglaries in the area and you need to lock the front door, but don't leave the back door open with a massive neon sign over it saying, please come in and rob everything you can, which is basically what he did.

36:09but he made saves that only Donnarumma could save in this match and that fuck up was a fuck up that no one else could see well he made some good saves he made some good saves he made a one-ander that was an absolute peach I think listen you're the goalkeeper here so I'll defer to you show some respect it was there were good saves but I just thought that undermined it entirely and the other two things I wanted to make a point I wanted to make very quickly one is that how good is Antonio Nusa by the way I mean just such a quality player I think he's going to go to the very top of the game I mean I know he's playing the Champions League already but he just looks great every time I see him and then the other thing is that Harland did the most Harland thing possible in this game like something like I don't know what it was it can't have been more than five or six touches all game and then Elliot Anderson gets a bit of space pops up plays a fantastic ball he looks up he doesn't really need to look up because he knows where Harland's going to be and Harland with those strides just eats the ground up and scores and that's it and it's the winner it's basically the winner you've basically got like a he's just a Chekhov's gun of a player he's there you know he's going to be used at some point and he eventually always just inevitably gets used it feels like in Act 3 so it was a really good really good game I thought I enjoyed it it was a lot to accredit it Leipzig were very competitive and it was the entertainment I kind of expected yeah like you said Anderson was very very good last night but Vish like Man City they have a lot of possession they have a lot of chances but teams do know how to play through them at times and it was touching go whether they were going to get that win in the end wasn't it?

37:45Yeah definitely I think they're a worse team without the ball now than previous iterations of City and the remedy to that seems to be as it played out in this game just score loads of goals when we have the ball Anderson is that deep line midfielder but he's not going to do the rogery role. He's a bit different. He loves driving with the ball. He was outstanding yesterday. Luke's already mentioned it, but for Haaland's goal, that was a little bit of, if I can put my Marcus hat on here, that was a little bit of me thinking, oh, Elliot Anderson, Declan Rice, just basically the same player. Could we do it with someone else in there for England?

38:30One six, one goes, Vish. yeah well exactly proven track record it's definitely gonna work maybe Declan Rice can play on the left and we can put someone else in there but but yeah they're like I think teams know that if you if you kind of stay alive against City they will give you something particularly this Man City whereas previously it was just about survival and hoping you might get you know you might get something at the other end but now it feels like yeah there's a bit more faith particularly because they've been so shaky at the back and And obviously that was, that was evidence again last night.

39:05It's a funny thing. Like just to go back to Anderson, Anderson feels like the only player, maybe Shirky who were like operating independently of all the, you know, the dark clouds above the club at the moment. Well, Enzo Fernandez is just reveling in it. He's just like soaking wet like Tim Robbins at the end of the Shawshank redemption, just saying, bring it all. I want more of it. I want more. It feeds me. Yeah. I want to tunnel through more shit, please. Yeah. Erling Haaland scored the winning goal. Of course, he's now scored 13 goals against Leipzig in nine matches. The most he's scored against a single team during his career.

39:43But yeah, on Enzo's comments about Gianluigi Donnarumma after the match, he said, it's not a concern, but it's a mistake. But in 48 hours, Saturday, we've got Nottingham Forest away. We need to be focused on that. And then the international break, I will look. I'm not thinking about the goalkeeper situation right now, but the goalkeeper knows that he was not good for the first goal. It's clearly on Enzo's mind. It's clearly something that's affecting the team this season. And how do they find out of this one? I saw a slow motion bit of footage of Erling Haaland talking to possibly... I can't remember what he was talking to, but you can lip read Erling Haaland.

40:27and it looks like he's saying he has to save it, he has to save it and he's quite frustrated which I found quite interesting but ultimately of course Donnarumma is their keeper I know Rulli has played this season but Donnarumma is their keeper and I don't see how that's going to change any time soon but I kind of agree with Vish without the ball thing is kind of interesting they were never really going to Marcus would say they've not been this kind of dominant, all-encompassing, intimidating team for a while, since that kind of patch they had under Guardiola a while back. But I do think it was always going to be transitional because of how big a figure Guardiola is.

41:09And you chuck in these charges and stuff into the mix. They've done very well in comparison, haven't they? Yeah. There's so much to take into account with City. Like Carthage was saying the other day that, you know, thinks they've been relatively fortunate domestically this season. And he did call the fact that Villa would beat them. He said, look, they've had life and death with Ipswich. They weren't that great against Coventry at home. Blah, blah, blah. They had a bit of a ding-dong with Sunderland as well. And he fancied Villa to beat them. Obviously, they did. Then they lose to Brighton at home in the league, and Brighton were pretty good value for it.

41:46Are they going to lose to Nottingham, Forrest, and Fulham? Absolutely fucking not. but there still are question marks over them and I think the fact that they could get got at so easily here against Leipzig was of interest, I would say. Yeah. Shall we move on to the Slavia Prague Arsenal? Pretty routine, standard humping of Slavia Prague. They equaled the record of a 23-game winless run in the Champions League. How did you get into them? Well, they're top of the Czech league, Luke, that's why. they are undeniable in the Czech League but they are the whipping boys of the Champions League and certainly in this extended league format they're having a terrible time but yeah, None Maduake with the first nice finish lovely finish in Giocarez on the 38th minute another nice finish from Giocarez by the way another nice finish and it was one of those, like you said Luke it was one of those matches where you're like do I need to watch this?

42:42I can't see how this one's going to pan out can we just simulate the match? there's there's like when you wrap up on the old on the Premier League after the Ramble on the Monday and sometimes obviously you get a Monday night game and that's fine but when you start looking towards the Champions League's fixtures instinctively when you see the fixtures some of them your heart just sinks I'm not watching that even though I work in football coverage and Slavia Prague vs Arsenal is 100 % right in that sweet spot right in the sweet spot yeah it's good to see William Saliba on the bench for the first time this season after the back injury he got in the World Cup.

43:16It was quite something. He's been out for a very, very long time. Yeah, does he come straight back in, though? Konza's had a brilliant time. I know, yeah. There's quite an awkward conversation to be had there. If you back to the world, don't fix it. They'll try and... I've heard chat from the Arsenal guys on the thing about Arsenal. They'll try and find a way to accommodate all of them, which I guess means Konza playing right back, I suppose. I mean, I don't really know. Yeah, but I agree with you. I think Konza has been fantastic. That's the advantage of being in the position Arsenal are, or one of the many advantages is you go and get Konza.

43:56He's like plug and play. He's like so good in the Premier League already. He's playing for a good team. He's played in the Champions League. And you get him and you go, fuck, we're going to be without Saliba for X amount of months. And he just slops straight in. It's like he's been there forever. Like honestly, he looks at home in the shirt straight away. He's not intimidated. he's obviously the right type of character for what they're trying to do and I do think it's a big decision now I what I would say about this game last night was about Gabriel who I do find obviously a fantastic centre-back but a tedious character is what I do kind of admire about him is that he he does love to defend I know it's a cliche thing but like he cleared one off the line against Slavia Prague and he just absolutely fucking loved it he just loved it and he and a really good bit of defender that one put in the near post where he just put his body on the line.

44:43Like, the reason him and Saliba are such a great combination, Saliba's anticipation and Rolls-Royce nature and Gabriel's like, kind of, get me in those fucking trenches. I want to throw my fucking face in front of those bullets. It's a great combination. So it may well be that Arteta wants to go back to that. But I mean, Konza can consider himself to be very, very unfortunate if he finds himself out of the team now. Because, you know, for all the reasons you stated, Vish. Slavia Prague, were pretty turgid. But they are without their top scorer in the past two seasons. Thomas Chorri, he's been banished by the club until further notice after swearing to referee when sent off during a game last month.

45:20It's not what you need when you're on the Champions League whipping point. Is this an Eastern European thing? He's banishing him like he used to do in medieval Eastern Europe. Exactly. Take him to the borders. Do not come back to these lands again. Well, he was banned, I think, for elbowing someone last season. I don't even think that was a league thing. I think it was like the club just decided they were going to ban him. West Ham were in for him. That's always the way That's something you need to know. That's always the place that strikers' careers die, isn't it? Yeah. But on the Arsenal side of things, after Arsenal's last game against Liverpool, Mikel Arteta was asked if he thought Arsenal were fortunate not to have conceded a penalty for Julian Timber, the situation we spoke about earlier, pulling Alexander Isaac's shirt.

46:03He said, I have a lot of clips about shirts, pulls, grabs. I have a massive library that we can talk about, says Arteta. Is it the worst thing about this, is Pete? I believe it. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It was very similar to what he said about the technical area leaving, not stats, but he basically had a load of footage of other managers leaving the technical area. Mikel, you are still the worst at it. You can sort of, you can point, you've still done more of it than everyone else. I would hate to see Arteta's, you know, I bet it's on like an external Lacey drive as well. and it's just got evidence.

46:38You don't reckon he's a Dropbox man? A Dropbox man? I don't know, man. He wants hard copies, doesn't he? Yeah, he'll want it offline so he can watch it on the plane. Or he can take a back chamber. He's very... Strange? I respect him in a number of ways, but he's very tedious. What he could have said in that situation with Timber and Izak, Because he could have just said, you know, something vaguely, like, relatable as a human being. Yeah, we got away with that one. You know, that's how it goes, you know. The old cliche, you know, evens itself out. You know, we've had a few against us. So, you know, that's how it goes.

47:18Not, I've got a database. And I will play it. There was a story that leaked the other day about, you know, seeing this thing about how he was secretly CCTVing everyone. Yes. Yeah, we mentioned it on Wednesday, yeah. Yeah, that's what you guys are talking about. and he was like oh you can hide I'm going to hide something on one of your persons and I'll be able to tell by looking in your eye like fuck off mate I've got to go to my kids in a minute can we just get this done can we wrap this up please I'll do the team meeting I'll do the training yeah yeah I'll buy into it we're Premier League champions now can I go home honestly can I go home just give them access to your dropbox just give them a link to your dropbox and I'll look at them in my own time I'll look at it on the there'll be a quiz at the end exactly exactly alright well elsewhere in the Champions League before we go I mean Como won 9-1 last night away from home.

48:06I'll tell you who's celebrating that game. Long's won, Como 9. Who's celebrating that? Michael Carrick. Give me a new contract. That looks like a great result for us, that. Doesn't look too bad, does it? Yeah. Cesc Fabregas' men continue to impress in the Champions League by equalling the biggest ever goal difference win in Champions League history. 8-0, Liverpool beat Basistas back in the day and Real Madrid beat Malmo 8-0 back in the day. But 9-1's got one more goal. That's better. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what hit different was knowing the score and then going back to watch the highlights this morning on the TNT Sports YouTube channel and the commentator's intro to the game was amazing.

48:43I'm going to read it to you, right? Knowing the game was 9-1 in retrospect. The commentator said no at the time. And he says, Long's look to kickstart their UEFA Champions League campaign. It feels like a must-win game for them as they look to ride the wave of this extraordinary atmosphere. someone's had their spark plugs it was it was a remarkable game it was you know like I can't stress this enough just casual football watchers who are listening to or watching this I feel like I really need to stress how much needs to happen for a professional team at this level to be conceding that many goals and what basically needs to happen is the summary downing of tools by the entire group like you can lose a game to a good team you know even four probably you know maybe even at a push five if you're really trying you need to get a result or something bear in mind this is a league fixture right if if if lawns at home are doing their job properly and behaving as they should without the ball it's fine to lose a game there would i would say for three of these goals and go and watch him back, for three of these goals the goalkeeper does nothing.

50:02Yes. He does nothing. It's not like he's wrong-footed or there's a deflection or he's... He does nothing. I cannot stress that enough. You can actually see it in real time the moment he retires. He's just like, nah. Not my circus, not my monkeys. At one point for that seventh or eighth goal because I'll tell you, the The pick of the goals, by the way, was the Lons goal. It's a great goal, it's the area. It's a beauty. To make it 7-1. He's caught them all back to the centre-sackel as well, which I love. I thought Cuomo's last goal was the pick of the bunch. They had tried to take off them, but didn't manage it.

50:45It was a young lad who scores it to equal the record, and I think it was maybe his debut goal. That was a standard-issue goal, Pete, against a team that had given up. I hate to break it to you. It was a lovely ball. But there was one point when it was like six or seven nil, where the left back for the Lons is like, they're without the ball and he's in the other team's penalty area. It was remarkable. He's jogging. Listen, he's jogging back. He's jogging back. He's ready for the kickoff. But it was an extraordinary thing. I think it was one of those ones where they didn't behave like they were, but I imagine Fabregas was probably just a little bit embarrassed by the end of it.

51:26Yeah, I guess. We want ten. All right, then. Well, thank you for listening to the Football Rumble, part of the Aircast Curator Network. All three of us will be back tomorrow alongside Mr. Marcus himself, Marcus Speller, Spelldog, the man. Luke Moore, say goodbye. Goodbye. Vish, say goodbye. Goodbye. There's goodbye from me too.

51:54The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

52:04Your daily supplement routine doesn't need to be managing a handful of different bottles. Onnit's Total Human brings key research-based vitamins, minerals, herbs, and amino acids together in convenient day and night packs. One all-in-one product designed to make supplementation easier. The day pack supports cognition, focus, and cellular energy production. At night, the night pack helps you wind down and supports a calm, relaxed state. Less time managing your supplements, more support for your day and night. Shop Total Human now at onnit.com. This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time.

52:48And Grainger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Grainger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRAINGER. Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger. for the ones who get it done. Hey guys, it is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre Finds Out. And as a journalist, I like to think I have the answers. But every holiday season, gifting makes me think otherwise. Getting it right feels impossible and can get quite stressful. But thankfully, Sephora takes a lot of the pressure off. Whether you're shopping for a beauty expert, a skincare lover, or someone who is just hard to shop for, Sephora's got it all.

53:34The big assist comes from Sephora's expert beauty advisors, who remove the guesswork with personalized recommendations so you can find something thoughtful and useful for the people on your list. Beauty is a gift anyone can give. So this holiday season, shop gifts at Sephora and give something beautiful. Verizon knows that holiday math can be complicated. Okay, let's see. We got the four kids. Four gifts each. Six teacher gifts? Wait. Oh, what did we get in? Sandy. And the dogs. Oh, I can't forget the dogs.