Virgil van Vindicated

0:00Oh, a storm is threatening everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble! Big Ang's got the boot and Manchester United got a massive win. It's Monday 20th of October. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Pete Donaldson. And I'm Luke Moore.

0:24Hello everybody. Welcome to Monday. It's officially opened. It's the Football Ramble. My goodness, what a show we've got for you. Before we get started, a reminder that if you enjoyed last Thursday's edition of Ramble Uncut, you can get that every single Wednesday straight into your podcast app. Simply sign up to patreon.com forward slash football ramble and become a friend of the Ramble for just five bucks a month. That's less than a pint in this London of ours. Definitely. And probably most other places nowadays. Roughly half one would suggest as well, five dollars. If you're drinking anywhere outside a working men's club, I think that's definitely...

0:57A conservative club that you have to pay subs for. Marcus when I ever I see Ramblin' Cut on the main feed I do SIPs I do poo my pants because I go oh my god that's the naughty stuff and it was on the main feed last week and I very much enjoyed it well it was yeah I know what you mean slightly more football-y than usual I noticed but well done well done for sticking to the brief Vish kept saying didn't he oh this is all I can't so I'll just say it this is just for the Patreon subscribers so I'll tell them but the other wider world have now heard it absolutely right click in the show notes or search patreon.com forward slash football ramble now eagle eyed or eagle eared listeners may have heard that I started with a Rolling Stones lyric there right that's because I spied old Mickey Jags MJ a different kind of MJ at Craven Cottage has he got a new statue well yeah that's true but he's got the moves like oh yeah he is him yeah he was there which was nice to see did you have a good time Keith I swear there was a chance when Arsenal because he's an Arsenal fan isn't he right And they went close and he went, ooh.

2:01Did he threaten the heat up on Zoom at any point? Not at any point. Your favourite Rolling Stones track? Well, that was Mick Jagger and Dave Grohl. Easy Sleazy or something like that. What was it called? It was wonderful. It was all about being in COVID. It was one of those songs, I remember, that came actually quite close to being a good song, but was abysmal. Yeah. The last moment just turned off. It's like, you know when they said when they took the Apollo 11 to the moon, to land on the moon, if they got the calculations slightly wrong by the time they got to the moon they'd be 5 million miles away it was like that but a song and they got it wrong at the start hit me up on Zoom you had nothing else to do in Covid Dave Grohl but cheat on your wife and make a great song and you did one of those things yeah yeah right just to remind everybody it wasn't a great song can I also just add that Mick Jagger has done a pretty good song for the theme tune to Slow Horses oh okay I don't think we need to he brings up Mick Jagger that's fine I'll tell you what why don't you just start talking about this you will talk about this as soon as we chime in you can move on well that's not quite what happened what I meant was is when you were sort of defending his musical legacy I was thinking I think that's set in stone oh yeah true but I just mean older man now solo stuff it's not all bad the slow horse and steam tune's fine that's a fair comment that's a fair comment and obviously he got the win he wanted he's an Arsenal fan I didn't know he was an Arsenal fan but I'll take your word for it oh yeah he feels more Fulham to me I don't know why I thought that Was it the highlight of your afternoon at Craven Cottage seeing MJ because he didn't get a win Yeah I think so Yeah fair enough I'd love for them to give an Arsenal bloody nose at the weekend but sadly they didn't Wouldn't we all other than old Mick Jagger who finally got his satisfaction Anyway we have to start though properly with Liverpool 1 Manchester United 2 on their 100th trip to Anfield Manchester United 1 for the first time at that ground since 2016 and it was Harry Maguire that got the goal Come on Lovely header as well away from home at Anfield back in the squad lovely lovely header from a quite delectable cross beauty the technique on that cross was Susan Perb it was yeah it was really good they looked weirdly confident and I'm like it started so well have you watched yourselves they started so well yeah maybe they haven't maybe they've just edited something together which made them look better can I bring I want to bring something to the table that I want you guys to either disavow me of you know confirm to me whatever I watched this game I didn't really listen to the commentary much for various different reasons, one of which because I was with my son and I just didn't want it on too loud.

4:34And I was really confused and then actually quite annoyed on Liverpool's behalf that that first goal stood, that the referee didn't intervene instantly for what was clearly a head injury. And we know it was a head injury because he had to wear a big water polo cap on for the rest of the game. surely the protocol there is the referee blows up straight away head injury you can't take any risks why did he let play continue? because he's not a massive softy like you because he's not full of walk nonsense seriously though I think he didn't see it I think it was two things it didn't I think it looked like he went under his arm and also it was VVD versus him wasn't it it was actually Virgil van Dijk's elbow that did him it's not a cheat code oh my goodness they're about to score come here yeah just punch your own player head injury Head injury I think it simply is that That he didn't see it He needs to have seen it It's a coming together And it's a clash And the guy stayed down He's holding his head So then where are the rules Where do the rules I'm pretty sure the law is that They For head injuries They have to stop play immediately For safety reasons The Premier League match centre As I said The referee didn't see it Fine Which case Fair enough So it's a safety issue Rather than an infringement Kind of issue I suppose So I guess Yeah I guess the goal should have stood Because the referee didn't see it I don't think there's any way You can stop it after But this is a trick.

5:55So you got VAR that. This is where, and we said this before, when players would genuinely need of treatment straight away. And it is worrying. Obviously, a head injury is a different beast to other kind of injuries, you would say. Inevitably, some players will abuse that. I think that's fair as well. I had the same feeling. However, do you then go, right, sod it. Too many of you are abusing it. We're just going to crack on. If he didn't see it, he didn't see it. Rightly or wrongly, if that's what the referee is saying, and that's why play continued and the goal stood. It's not up for the team to stop playing because they've decided to referee the game.

6:32Well, you are told to play to the referee's whistle, aren't you? So we'll go with that. But there are instances, I mean, there was one at Craven Cottage where I think it was Timothy Castagna who... Distracted by a legendary rock star in the crowd. What's wrong is that? Bono was there. He went down and Arsenal sort of broke away and it would have been a chance and the referee pulled it back and I remember sitting there and the chat around us all was, yeah, glad that happened. If it happened the other way around, you'd be fuming because you know that, and of course, they didn't seem to be. So I think it's one of those really frustrating ones.

7:09If the referee sees it and blows up instantly, then you don't know how that phase of play is then going to turn out and it's a frustrating one. But if that safety measure is in place and it's in place for good reason, then you just you were literally relying on fellow professionals those professionals none of them are my fellows to do the right thing but anyway the goal stood it was a nice goal from Man United's point of view from Bumo two minutes in the goalkeeper might have got his positioning slightly wrong but ultimately Peter what a start for the Red Devils it was yeah I mean obviously Virgil was massively out of position at that point here he goes you're being vindicated on this one he didn't have a very good game Virgil van Vindicated he's never very good that's what I call you and he's had moments this season where he's not been great that's why I said it but what you actually said was something like he's turned into the worst defender of all time no I didn't I said he'd started this season poorly because he played terribly in the charity shield whatever you call it now either way community are we a community what have you got against the community he think they deserve a cup not a shield why doesn't Pete want the community to be shielded well I think he wants a community cup because it can drink I think for Liverpool it's nothing really to worry about necessarily but you sort of if they just sort of finished Gakpo's chances Isak probably should have done better as well Yeah that was his moment really to get off the ground fairly good save though It was a strike of an uncomfortable strike You sort of look at well I mean Arnestlan did say his pre-season is over now he's got to start He's got to get cracking At some point, you really have to start there.

8:51I was sort of thinking, there's a lot of attention on me now. The four games and the bounce losing them. I'd like to put the attention on the players. He needs to do better. Everyone, listen. He needs to do better. He needs to do better. And they should have done it. But they were starting, all of their moves kind of started from, even that chance from Iza was Canate's sort of through. Canate played really well. Canate did play real, but she shouldn't be the fulcrum and the creator of everything good that Liverpool did. Give him his flowers for a pass. Give him his flowers. It was a lovely pass.

9:17I'll tell you why he was able to make that pass. Because just before the game, he signed a new deal with Bottoman's boots. I'd like to complain about Bottoman's boots. Did you wear them at the weekend? Well, at the weekend, player went through me and I am terribly injured now. What was the score? 4-3 lost. And you playing goal? Pete, no, no, no. What did you do for the last 20 minutes of the game? Might have refereed the game. So I was too injured to play. I'll tell you what. It's the Bottoman's way. It's the Bottoman's way. Scraping the bottom of the barrel. The bottom of the call. Did you start off running the line?

9:52No, I played 60 minutes full back. What position? Full back. And why were you injured? Because your blisters on your foot? No, some guy went through the back of me and he's fucked my ankle. I don't know how he managed to do it. Is your ankle on backwards or forwards now? My legs are on backwards. I'd love to see Pete refereeing. Were you authoritative? I loved it. Did you have a whistle? I had a whistle. You weren't blown for anything, let's be honest. People were shouting at me about blowing for throw-ins. Who blows for throw-ins? Left, blue side. The referee though. Do it yourself. Who blows for throw-ins?

10:24Sort out yourselves. Sort out yourselves. I loved it. So I think referees are in great position. And look, if someone had got a head injury on my watch, I would have stopped the game. Eventually. That's what I'm saying, eventually. Hobble over there on your fucking dodgy ankle. But look, great salve to my wounds that Alexander Isak's a piece of shit now. It'll be April time while he's still got to get off the speed. it's probably a bit because obviously Liverpool as Pete said Liverpool did have chances Gatpo was busy hit the post a couple of times there was another deflated one off the far post as well but what did we say on Friday though I would say that okay I fancied that Liverpool to win it as everybody did in fact maybe we were slightly too dismissive of Manchester United evidently we were but the performance does matter now now obviously the result is the key thing but Liverpool have not convinced really this season they were getting results very late as well yeah they were scoring late but as somebody might immediately remind me well a late goal is still a goal you know it's still within the you know the game so that's what I say when I turn up at 9pm with some Valentine's Day flowers from the garage a late goal is a late goal it's not midnight yet it's not midnight yet still Valentine's Day you ain't scoring tonight hey there'll be no goal at all that is belief you yeah that kind of joke yeah come on sorry sorry everyone get back Get yourself the upshot.

11:44Get back to the 90s and I'll see you there. But the performance and all that, even if Liverpool had scored one or two of these chances that you're talking about, which they should have done another day, you play this game however many more times Liverpool will win it or certainly not lose, they still look disjointed. This is slightly concerning for Liverpool now. And three games in a row now, they've battled back into a game and then eventually lost it. It happened against Palace, it happened against Chelsea, now it's happened against Man United. Exactly, yeah. And they... there was a lot of chances they should have almost certainly taken.

12:17Man United were, you know, Man United deserved the credit because they've been really, really, they found things really, really tough. They won themselves at 1-0 when Bruno Fernandes hit the post. And he should have scored. Yeah, yeah. And so they deserved the credit for the win, of course. But you've got so many players for Liverpool now underperforming quite obviously. Salah's a big one, isn't he? Yeah, it's not just the signs, it's Salah as well. I mean, I was reading, on the way in this morning, I was reading Jeremy Carragher's comments about Salah saying that he can't be an automatic starter every game.

12:46If you can leave Florian Verts out and if you can leave Isaac out or whatever you need to be able to leave Salah out as well because there's so many games being played and he's also it's not just that he's not scoring and not really assisting do you see the amount of times he gave the ball away? Yeah. Really easy touches he's fighting everywhere. He's always had that kind of Mbappe doesn't need to defend kind of role and that's been fine when he performs. Well Slott told him last season don't defend but with the structure with Trent behind him and a restructure but when you're losing the ball you're like I mean like most of Azak's goals last season obviously came from Jacob Murphy and when you buy a rat from the Pet Star you've got to get the right pellets haven't you?

13:28So it's Murphy the pellets Salah's yeah Murphy good Murphy pellets good solid Murphy pellets and then Salah's just not providing the pellets It would be sensational in January if Liverpool had all in on Jacob Murphy 100 million We need him We need him but the thing was I mean I was convinced I think we had one of our gentlemanly bets which I lost that I thought Salah was off come the summer because to me he looked like a guy who needed a new challenge and at the age he was but yet with still possessing the quality you think to yourself to me he was primed for that kind of due to their lack of money or whatever like a swan's on it not Barcelona because obviously they've got Jamal out there but a big side one of those teams where you go for the last couple of years Juve wherever it would be or will he take the Saudi buck and you thought to yourself well don't do that because I mean even at the age of 40 he'd probably still be too good to go there but I thought he needed a new challenge and I don't know I wonder if he looks around and thinks well do you know what there's an offer here from Liverpool obviously a long you know very very long going thing about that new contract he does sign and this season and so much has happened as well again I don't want to go too deep on this for obvious reasons but we spoke about this recently I wonder, still the effects of the death of their teammate, Diego Jota.

14:45I wonder if that's still... Huge adjustment. Yeah, exactly. That's a factor in all this as well. But with Salah, yeah, he's sort of tailed off ever so slightly towards the end of last season, but they've wrapped up the league, so I understand that. But the going is tough now, and yes, you'd back him to turn it around, but as you say, Luke, it's the body language, it's everything. He just doesn't look the same player, and I wonder if he's thinking, maybe I've stayed too long in the Premier League I don't know they need more bodies up top yeah well I mean I appreciate what I've said there is quite a bold thing and again he goes on a run now and he turns it around and perhaps it's symptomatic of the whole team that they're misfiring but he's the one guy you think well his lethal side shouldn't have suddenly disappeared you know as you say making poor passes and so on it doesn't really look good at the moment for Liverpool They've got an embarrassment of riches up front.

15:41They just haven't found the right blend. And they've struggled badly because of individuals not playing as they expect them to. Kirkus has been poor, as I said, and they've had problems at both full-back area. I mean, it's just the same as what I said on Friday. I thought they'd have enough to get past United because I thought if they started fast, they would kind of overwhelm United, particularly at home. Then that big inflection point in the first minute happens, which could have gone either way. the referee does see that and he does stop it who knows how the game is going to transpire because it's a big moment but it's a real challenge for slot now I mean this is the first time as a Liverpool manager he's had any kind of adversity really whatsoever and so four games on the bounce for a team like Liverpool they won't have lost four games in a row for a long time it would be 2014 under Brendan Rodgers right so it's over 10 years great for the Premier League so yeah and I was literally just about to say and what's fascinating is it's now started to get really interesting for a number of different reasons the ones I'd like to point out just that you know it's now open for Arsenal and Man City massively because I don't think you can say that I mean Liverpool basically dropping what nine points in the league in a few weeks that's a big big change I mean just because of the way the points totals happen in the Premier League this season in terms of coming down the stretch and the other thing is that I couldn't believe this when I saw this this morning Man United are now two points behind Liverpool in the league I mean you think of this narrative that's been talked about mostly by us to be fair for the start of the season.

17:09It's unthinkable. So this time next week, United could be above Liverpool in the league. Well, yeah. Yeah, so we should turn our turn to Manchester United now because despite Liverpool being very profligate and, you know, Gakbo heading that one wide, which seems to me. Sorry to cut in, but they should, it's right to say that and they'd have a lot of chances. They'd have more chances than United and another day you're right to say they would have scored more goals. But this is happening too often now. Yeah. It's happening far too often. Even in the games they won and their luck's kind of run out now, it's not a coincidence.

17:36You can't take this game in isolation and say, oh yeah, on another day they'll have won and they'll be fine. Because it's too much come along before it that shows you there's wider problems. Yes, yeah. Manchester United though, despite all that, played very well. All things considered, they looked like a team who were digging in. They had a bit of grit, determination and character. And one thing that you have to say is, in that first half, yeah, flew out of the traps, should have gone 2-0 up. When Liverpool finally do get that equalising goal, in the 78th minute, Manchester United didn't crumble.

18:10They didn't suddenly shit themselves as a lot of teams understandably would and have done over the years at Anfield. They still kept plugging away and to pick themselves up and get a winning goal as well. Very, very impressive. Again, they rode their luck with a Gakpo header and one or two others. But it does show you that there is, that there's still a little bit of something there that Amarim's got to work with. Because as you say, when Fernandes lost that ball and a Maguire scores. I mean, I love that knee slide celebration he's just right in front of the Liverpool fans. Oh, he enjoyed that.

18:42But then, you know, and Maguire himself said, you know, winning back-to-back games in the league for the first time under Amarim. You know, Maguire said, yeah, it's a bit embarrassing to be honest. We're not proud of that. But enjoy the moment though. You saw him when he went back to the dressing room and they're all cheering. That fellow with his big hair. Yeah, he might be getting his hair cut. He might be thinking about oiling his clippers. Yeah, Brighton at home next, then Forrest away, then Spurs away. you've got to be looking at that Spurs will be the big one but yeah I don't know Brighton with Danny Welbeck on form I don't know but I think you're right to point out the idea that you know you don't get back into a game and eventually win it at Anfield without having some belief and having some kind of unity and I think that's fair enough to point that out and Amarim did say afterwards didn't he he said this is for the fans I think he said something along the lines of the first thing I thought of was the fans that came to Grimsby this is kind of for them really so who knows if it'll be a platform for them to go forward so I mean look it's relatively good stuff from United because you know you're going to be under the cosh from at least part of the game whatever Liverpool side you're playing against at Anfield and their record has been very poor so I mean yeah fair enough credit to the goalkeeper as well Lemons who's not been in the Premier League that long and then he goes I think Man United fans again early days for him at Manchester United but they'll find a little bit of solace with that not solace they've won the game calm Yeah, they'll find a little bit of cum.

20:02But look, we were saying not that long ago that surely come November when Amorim is beyond that year and his contract won't it be cheaper to sack him and all that kind of stuff. We thought, yeah, that's going to happen, isn't it? Has your opinion changed much on that? I don't think he's... I mean, it's just one result, but it is a huge result. It's a big result. And I think they've played Liverpool a nice time and they've come off the back of beating Sunderland who are promoted side at home. I don't think you can... I'm not going to change my entire view on the situation at Man Utd because they won a game at Anfield.

20:38I'm just not going to do that. I think the fact that this is the first time in Anbram's tenure that they've won two games in a row tells its own story. You can't just automatically become brilliant and be in the right spot and be the right man and have the right set up just because you've won two games. That's not going to help the YouTube, is it? Say something outrageous about how good Man Utd are now. The best! I think they'll win the league. The six points off the top. You just got to wait and see. look it's the first time I've been wrong but if we get through to the middle of the next month and they've won every game since he's obviously not going to lose his job is he so that's the situation sure three more years yeah but I just remember you saying it was done under Emery I think it is done I just wondered if but I also think it's done under anyone I think United are in a right or state overall fold the club go out on a high I can't believe you're making me say this where they've just won at Anfield it's naughty by you I'll get the pelters for this as usual okay well to be fair I got behind you in that opinion yeah I think a lot because I can lead a horse to water that's why good luck trying to find it though yeah oh yeah look it's a great moment although I mean Amarim did you know say after the game I think that was the biggest win in my time at Manchester United oh definitely it's the biggest win by miles it means a lot today but tomorrow it won't mean a lot he's going back to old habits you understand totally what he means but you know it makes you think of Eeyore doesn't it it makes you think of Eeyore at the trading game we're all going to today but what you mentioned about the good for the Premier League I totally agree obviously Arsenal are top and you didn't mention Bournemouth by the way which is a bit naughty but we will mention them yeah I don't expect Bournemouth to stick around right that far up there you don't think but they've been brilliant but seeing Arsenal as I did at Craven Cottage against Fulham look they won the game speaking of teams who lost three Premier League games in a row I'll tell you what Fulham like a stone Fulham have got one more point than Burnley they're on the same as Leeds and not doing very well.

22:29I think they'll be all right compared to Burnley. But Arsenal, again, I totally get they kept a clean sheet, they won the game, they got three points, et cetera, et cetera. And also, it's at a ground where the last couple of seasons they haven't won. But I wasn't as, I wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be at Arsenal. I've seen previous Arteta sides go there. I remember a few years ago when they won 3-0 and they were superb. I mean, I think I, you know, I was full of superlatives for them and likened them to Pep Guardiola's Barcelona at one point absolutely brilliant it's a different incarnation of Arsenal at the moment it's a different Premier League incarnation as well well it is Peter a lot of free kick focusing seems to be the cheat code that everyone's using at the moment undelible it's not a cheat code free kicks are part of the game dead balls not free kicks but yes we've got our game back but I think with Arsenal though and talking of Premier League title this is not going to be I don't think a season where you see a team absolutely trounce everybody and kind of as we've been conditioned to in the last handful of years with Guardiola's Man City just blasting everybody away even to obviously a very very obvious point Arteta's Arsenal when they were going toe-to-toe or Klopp's Liverpool when they won it or going toe-to-toe I sincerely hope this is much more open than what we've seen the league title last season was darn well early yeah exactly yeah and so yeah like on another day I think Fulham do get a point against Arsenal they didn't blow them away it was competitive and I think if to win the Premier League this season.

24:00It'd be interesting to see the points tally, but I think it's a fascinating little first eight games of the season to suggest what may come. So hopefully we see something a little bit more exciting than what we've seen in previous seasons. Right, coming up after this, time's up for Ange.

24:27so we get to the current space where there's a different story to tell that maybe i'm not a failed manager who was lucky to get this job but maybe i'm a manager that if you give them time the story always ends the same at all my previous clubs it ends the same with me and a trophy. Thanks to Friend of the Ramble, Teej, for the second week running. Old Teej has given us a clip on the Discord. What a generational run. It's going for the hatchery. Generational content creator. I felt quite sad hearing that. Oh, yeah. Quite poignant. Could you frame your P45 and go, there we go. Quite possibly. I've won an award, mate.

25:03Well, it may not be an award, but I think it is some sort of accolade if you want to become a friend of the Ramble. Then five bucks a month. search patreon.com forward slash football ramble to get involved that of course that clip you heard there that was sent in by the great Tiege was Ang's pre-match press conference before they lost 3-0 to Chelsea and then just minutes after the full-time whistle he had gone I reckon he got a text about three minutes from the end before the end of the match they would have to do texts apparently the director of football whose name escapes me because the old one just moved to Newcastle maybe yes grabbed him in a little side office in the tunnel oh did he right Right.

25:40Here's your bag. Didn't even get down the end of the tunnel. There's a side office halfway down the tunnel. Thanks for all the varicose veins, but you're off. Yeah. Well, our friend Jules Breach was reporting. Yeah. She was trying to find out what was going on. And there was a chat, wasn't there, that Ange, very, very soon after full-time, I mean, apparently it was 17 minutes after full-time was that he was sacked, didn't have time to do his post-match press conference. And apparently he had a bag over his shoulder, off to his car, and he was gone. I probably, he asked to, I asked to address the players for the last time, I think, and then he left.

26:11If it was me... Thanks a bunch, lads. I mean, you say, didn't get a chance to do a post-batch press conference. I wouldn't be doing that. I wouldn't be doing that. Who knows? Maybe he was meant to. Do you know what? I'd really respect that if Maranakis would say, right, you're sacked. You're going to go out there and talk to the journalist. He was like, up yours, mate. I'm off. That clip there, specifically, it was a bit odd that however many games in, I don't know how many games in totally managed for. Eight in the forest. so going into his eighth game he's still kind of answering questions or at least agreeing to focus on what he did or didn't do at Spurs yeah it's like that was a long time ago now you left in the summer you've got this new job now you've been here a while even if you're being asked questions about Spurs just flap at them away yeah that's done that's done I'm forest manager now it feels a bit like you know it feels a bit like he's saying all these things about always running the trophy about how the fact that his face doesn't fit and he's trying to imply that because he's Australian and because he didn't have a very famous playing career that perhaps his face doesn't fit.

27:11I don't think that's true. Or dark forces. I just think that if you don't, he didn't fully understand that as soon as journalists know you'll be good for copy and you'll say outrageous stuff and you'll be quote-unquote frank, you're going to get that over and over again. The same question as well, usually. Because they want their version of it. What I'd argue is that it was possibly a poison chalice for him anyway. Because, you know, 39 days or whatever it was is historically bad. It's the second shortest tenure of any Premier League manager, I think. And so that's going to be the headline. The shortest serving permanent manager in the Premier League, because it was only Sam Allardyce, but that was only a four-game deal.

27:50Okay, so it is. So that's the headline. But the point surely is that the way that Nuno left was so strange and so sudden that the players clearly just didn't, they were just, we're still reeling from it. And it's not surprising that if you take a month period of time, it isn't very long. There's an international break in there as well. The players probably aren't anywhere near used to what Ange wants to do. They're probably not mentally used to even having a new manager. So I don't necessarily think it's all his fault. I think he's been a particularly unlucky fool guy. I don't think he's done a brilliant job of it, obviously.

28:28He's got to share his own, kind of take his own share of the blame. But the situation is very strange. I think if Sean Dyche comes in now, which is what's being reported this morning, I mean, fine. Sean Dyche has got history at Forest. You know, Ian Wohan and Steve Stone, Forest legends, so they'll be part of the team. That'll be great. And I understand why Forest fans would like that. But you can't get away from the fact, as I said last week, that it does feel like an incredible act of self-harm. Given that Nuno delivered what he delivered and the fans loved him and the players clearly loved him and I know Maranac has delivered them the football they've now got and has brought them all these players and spent all this money but it's almost a bit like it feels a bit like well it's my ball and I'm taking it home now and you can't complain because without me you wouldn't have had a ball to play football with and it feels just very very childish well I mean getting Edu on board is clearly what's upset that's really upset everything and it's obviously very difficult to give really sort of bold opinions on this because you don't know what conversations were had and how relationships break down and so on and so forth.

29:32But with, as you say, Luke, to echo those thoughts, with Nuno in charge, going into the season, you're thinking, okay, can Forest finish in the top seven, say, again? Can they maybe go on to win a trophy? And I'll tell you what, you've got to give them a huge chance in the Europa League. Now it's damage limitation. Now it's right, let's make sure we're not in a relegation battle. I don't think they're going to go down, but let's make sure we're not in a relegation battle. or let's try and get a bit of more of a mid-table kind of feeling if you like at the club and let's not embarrass ourselves or let's not be utter crap in the Europa League.

30:07I think Sean Dyche will deliver those things but again it feels like damage limitation rather than expressing themselves. More importantly than that I think he'll just have a more dogmatic approach to setting up a team. Although defensively they'll be much better. Defensively they'll be much better. They'll be much more similar to Nuno than Andro. Yeah. Which I think will serve them well. Hans had eight different teams, eight different ways of playing in the matches that he faced. And by the end, it did sort of feel like he'd pulled every lever and went, I don't know, I don't want to get out of here.

30:33Starting with O and E, it's weird. And it was another, I mean, the Chelsea match itself, where Chelsea just very handily saw Forrest at Forrest. It was just another match where they just found it really difficult to sort of face dead ball functions. And so I think Dyche will be a massive step up on that. but it was a problem that didn't really need to exist because they kind of had a plan. Well, totally, yeah. Yeah, I agree. And I think that I know towards the end of Daesh's time at Everton, I mean, they just didn't score goals, which is always going to be a problem. However, with the team that he has at Forest, it's a better team than that and they've got a bit more going forward.

31:09So it'll be interesting to see what Daesh can do. I know we've been slightly critical of him. But I think, you know, I don't think it's a ridiculous appointment. I understand that it's not a particularly exciting one, but given all what you've just said there, I think it's understandable. but with Postacoglu I found it you know people were saying oh this is absolutely brutal you know 39 days you know and people were saying he only had this amount of games and I thought to myself I understand that what do you want to give him five more? I just because of what you just sort of described there I don't think it is going to turn around and not all of that goes on Postacoglu's shoulders as you said Luke you know there's a portion of the blame because he is the manager and he's in the seat to make things happen and change things up.

31:54But it's the whole club and the whole hierarchy you're looking at there. But it was so strange the way it happened. And then, you know, Morgan Gibbs-White giving a post-match interview where he said the players had full faith and then, boom, he's gone. Ryan Yates trying to be as politician-like as he could when he was being asked by Jules. Yeah, Jules was like, who told you? And he went, who was in the meeting? He didn't want to talk when he went. He was brilliant. And what did Mr. Maranaka say? He wasn't actually there. No, was he? You know, So you feel for these players. I don't think, my guess would be, I don't think any of these Forest players will be particularly sad to see Posto call glue go.

32:31And that's not because they disliked him personally or anything. I don't know. But it clearly wasn't working. It was never going to work, really. And they need somebody to come in there and go, right, let's see what you did under Nunu. Nunu? Nunu! Nunu! Let's try and get back to what you're good at, what you're used to, what got you in this position and see, as I say, going forward. Because in the game itself, people are saying, yeah, but on another day, you know, Forrest had their chances. Any Premier League side can play well for 45 minutes of a football match. It's why they're in the Premier League.

33:04Any Premier League side can do that. Yeah, not Lassie. Do you know what I mean? So, like, don't be surprised if Forrest... Have chances in a football match. Yeah, make a few chances, maybe even score a couple of goals. The fact is they lost the game 3-0 and they limped out of it. You know, that may be really, really harsh saying that, But you don't say, oh, well, there were signs that in a 3-0 loss at home, when Rhys James scores the third, the away end are having a lovely old time. You can't really say properly, oh, but there were signs they were turning it round. Not given that you haven't won for God knows how long.

33:35Exactly. And the manager himself has never won a game. But they did have their moments. They had a lot of chances. They just didn't take them. And Chelsea made three changes at half-time and just went through the gears and blitzed them in the second half, basically. And it turned into kind of men-against-boys stuff, really. But that's the point though. Forrest, they were soft. We said this about Spurs last season. I'm not defending them. I'm not defending them. Spurs last season under Postacoglu, they were soft. Under Thomas Frank, appreciate they lost to Villa, but they were a bit more stern.

34:01And Forrest under Nuno was stern. They were a solid side. And they'll get that back under Dyche. I think it's really poor that Maranakis didn't even fire him. I mean, given that Maranakis made a big song and dance about presenting him within the walls for being his first Greek origin guy to the edge trophy. That says it all. Yeah, but he makes a big thing in his statement about how, you know, they've been friends for a long time, apparently, and how they do this, and the reason he's hired him for that, and he put Greece on the map. Elevated them. Elevated Greece. As he deflated them, though. And I just think, look, it may well be you're away on business and the decision has to be made, right?

34:33I get that. He was in the game. He was in the game for 65 minutes. He's left. Yeah. He's obviously given the order. Just do it yourself. Have a bit of gumption about you, you know? I'm coming for you, Maranakis. I'm not actually. Yeah, seriously. Do not do that. That's for tomorrow's mailbag. so look it's not it's not a huge surprise is it we saw it coming but yeah there's lots of different reasons for why he's not been successful there yeah Chris Wood only scoring in one football match which you wouldn't expect that from him did you like the fact that he was going do I go for Dice or do I go for Mancini I know right it's the most unjoined up thinking ever the thing is you can tell how how different it is because if you said there Sean Dice comes in they want to stay in the Premier League it's damage limitation I'm thinking if Mancini comes in they want to be winning the Europa League he's a serial winner he's a serial winner and they brought a lot of players in he's a madhead as well yeah but they brought a lot of players in I think we can all agree if Mancini had taken the job that would have been very good for the Ramble oh yeah very good for the Ramble quick mention for Chelsea though they're up to 5th 14 points scored a few goals I mean Malagusto what are you doing 3-0 up what are you doing man you silly boy that was really interesting because one of the things that's typified Chelsea's wobble recently has been like these really weird individual errors and that was another one really it didn't matter do it at 3-0 though you said on the show last time around last week that Pedronetto had a really boring start to the season he had lovely ball in for the first goal great header great free kick as well yeah Matt Sills he's caught the Ange Bug as well he fumbled it into the net but he scored though so Chelsea just you know going about the but for perspective I mean fair enough if I put the kiss of death on it, or whatever, but that's his first goal or assist, I think since the middle of August, for Chelsea.

36:20So he started pretty much every single game. I think you've got more influence than what you think. I don't think that's true. Now, let's turn our attention to the Football Ramble Discord, where Luke has unprecedented influence. It was, of course, the grand final of the Crisp Bowl, as we discussed on Friday. A huge knockout competition between different crisps, with each going head-to-head in a vote on the Discord. Doritos took on Pringles in the final now we expressed our slight disappointment that those were the two finalists they're getting nowhere near the top eight for me yeah I mean it's Portsmouth versus Cardiff City in the FA Cup final isn't it really Doritos won didn't they Doritos won Doritos won yeah Peter immediate comment from you on Doritos winning this is my sacking of Rome it is the Doritos are the Visigoths and they've done me there I think we should close the discord.

37:13Would you ever knowingly buy a packet of Doritos? If I had dip. It's like, you know, it's like, they're like paper to write on. Do you know what I mean? They are an ingredient to something better. They're a vehicle for the dip. They are tasteless. That's going to get you in big trouble over the discord. Well, that doesn't matter. I'm closing it. Create your own crisp competition. I'd also like to wager here. Do we have a crisp shield? Shut this into the mix. I feel like the big thing that's been missed on this crisp bowl is that if you take for example just take Pringles there's like 12 different types of Pringles they're all very different massive variations so I think you might need to be a bit more specific because if I say to you which was it with flavour yeah I think so okay because I just think that Monster Munch for example has only got a couple of flavours really yeah but I mean Monster Munch was semi-finalists and I was pleased to see them there they're very very one of my favourite crisps they'll be back next time I would have gone bang I'd have gone salt and vinegar walkers versus you know prawn cocktail Pringles sizzling bacon quavers there we go make it tough oh Peter too salty too salty salty so if I get what I'm getting at is I'll use a better example if you go Pringles yeah I know what you mean versus Skips I get what you mean it's just one flavour of Skips yeah yeah I see what you mean what Pringles which one have a go at the disc orders I already have done I've been on there you can't close it down I'm doing it now you know as well as I do Not fit for purpose.

38:40Pete Donson's a knick-knack man. You're a knick-knack man? Yeah, the stinkier the better. Scampion lemon ones. Scampion lemon ones. They're the stinkiest ones. I knew it. Salt and vinegar discos, that's where they're. Yeah, anything aggressive that's going to preclude me from eating any more food that day. Anything under 20p. Space Invaders. Transformer snack. All right, coming up after this, there was a barn burner at Selhurst Park.

39:11Crystal Palace 3, Bournemouth 3. How about that? Give over, lad. Jean-Philippe Mateta spurns a haul. Were those three goals won in the eye for Wilfred Zaha, Peter? And Andy Brassel. And Andy Brassel. They've been away for a long time, haven't they? Yeah. That was of them. That Wilfred Zaha thing, wasn't it? When Mateta scored for France, of course, against Iceland, I think it was, in the World Cup qualification. And he said, well, you know, it's great to play for France to score because I said at Palace, you know, I wanted to play for front. And he said some of his teammates, Wilfred Zaha included, sort of laughed and scoffed.

39:44And then Zaha did that weird video where he was like, I'd never do that. And then he ends up saying, that's why I've got no friends in football. And I thought, you've lost me there. He's very earnest, Zaha. Yeah, but he lost me at the end. If he'd have said, look, I never said that. Maybe we said one or two things joking around, but I would always encourage a fellow, a teammate to, you know, reach for the stars, grab your dreams, whatever you want to say. And, you know, well done for scoring good luck to him I'd never discourage him so yeah well done mate that I would be on board with the fact he ends by then saying and that's why I've got no friends in football Zaha's got a bit of form recently for this because he is at Charlotte at the moment in the US and he came under a bit of criticism for being seen to be quite aggressive and tempestuous with some of his teammates and then he did a long video in a post-match where he said I've played here I've played there I'm demanding these standards I'm doing it because I care about the team and if I didn't do it in the position I'm in as a high profile player people would say I didn't give a shit and all this kind of stuff so I think he's in his kind of he's in his kind of strikeout era he's in his kind of I'm fighting back trying to cement his legacy a little bit so that video and the end of the other one I just mentioned I'm team Mateta yeah fair enough I mean I'm not I'm not on any side you've got to be team Mateta on the Monday after he's just scored a hat-trick in the Premier League well do you know it's a funny old thing football he should have scored four he missed that this is the funny thing I mean this is I hate to do this as you say to a player who's a fellow professional to a fellow striker you told us last week you haven't been a striker for some time well you said you're filling wherever they need you no no no once a striker always a striker but I embody total football these days what are you doing I'm answering your questions are you repping in the last 20 minutes as well that would be a total waste you've got your bodyman's on you can handle them now you're talking with Mateta yeah you hate to do it to a guy who scored a hat trick but like the you know the last sort of real action of the game was him missing a great chance you think ah yes he scored a hat trick and he'll have gone off the pitch pig sick despite scoring three goals and saving his team a point it looked like he kind of bobbled up and came off his ankle didn't it but he I mean Kruppi came in and did really well he did I mean the fact that this game was so kind of pendulum Yeah, it's chaos.

42:06I mean, obviously Bournemouth go two up, Crystal Palace peg them back, and there's a whole late show as well because obviously Christie thought he'd won it. He thought he'd won the game. The celebration's like, we've won the game. Of course, these days in football, there's 10 minutes of added time. Eight minutes later, Mateta gets his hat-trick. I thought he was getting the ball to go and get the winner, but he wasn't just getting the ball to show that I'm going to get the ball because I've got a hat-trick, which is quite pleasing. Well, that's in the bag. That's safe. Well, both fixtures finished nil-nil between these two last season, and Glasner said, well I don't expect a 3-all in his press conference that's the beauty of it but I like the fact that Bournemouth took the game to Palace because Palace we know good defensively they're having a decent season although they are on the same points as Manchester United now which shows you how well Man United are doing but yeah Palace have been a good side they've been one of the talking points this season and they like to keep games tight Bournemouth who are doing very very well themselves third in the league just four points off the top are thinking no no no we're not having any of that against us we're going to get through you and we're going to force you to come out and Palace created a lot of chances I mean Mateta could have had a few more earlier on so it was great to see two sides who I think are really good sides who are who you would fancy finishing the top half of the table which is no mean feat by the way when you say that about Palace and Bournemouth finishing in the top half that would be a huge achievement can they even push into those European places.

43:29Again, very early days. But you remember what Bournemouth did, particularly in the first half of last season. Can they keep that going? But they play with such verve and vigour, creating chances and whatnot. It's great to see. They did... Were they fortunate, do you think, when Marcos Sanessi was not sent off for that foul? I thought it was the correct decision, but I can understand why Palace were disappointed. If he gets sent off by the referee, it's not being overturned. And if he gets sent booking by the referee, it's not being overturned either. So he was just fortunate the referee decided that it wasn't yellow and it wasn't obvious enough to be overturned.

44:00I'd love to say just quickly, like, given Bournemouth credit there, and I think, and rightly so, the next bit of credit we should probably give them is that Eli Krupe comes in, 19 years old, the signer from the French second division. Have they done it again? These teams, like Bournemouth and Brighton and Brentford and one or two others, they seem to be so good at finding these players. He's 19 years old and he's got three Premier League goals already in his first season here. He looks like a really good player and the fact that Evan Nielsen who was a big signing for them cost a lot of money he's out injured Kruppi comes in and Irioli says look you know we're away from home we need you to do a job for me and he scores me in like seven minutes I wonder if they found another superstar there because his movement looks amazing he looks really quick his finishing looks good he could be a real player for them well as somebody mentioned about Bournemouth I think it was could have been sheer on match of the day but Bournemouth are now doing business with the likes of Real Madrid and co specifically selling all their players well not just them but you know other big clubs not all their players but they lost like four in their back five last season right from last season they definitely lost a few but keeping Semenya was crucial he is just what a player he is and again I mentioned this before well done for Bournemouth for that not being a huge issue in Saga over the summer there wasn't really a peep on Semenya was there no and I think that it goes to show what they're doing and what Iriola's doing keeping Iriola again there wasn't any kind of chat about him leaving as well Bournemouth now is a club where if you are a prospect, like Kruppi, for example, I know he's very young, you'd want to go there.

45:32Yeah, but... And I don't mean... It could be a stepping stone club, but that's not a dig, by the way. Because if you think about the size of the club and the ecosystem in the Premier League and wider in Europe, to be a stepping stone club means you're doing something right. Yeah, I know where you are. People talk about stepping stone clubs like it's automatic. Yes. It's that you're not automatically going to go past them and go somewhere else. It may not work for you. It may not happen. you may get injured you may be a bit unlucky and at the very least you're at a good Premier League club where you can do well and play well earn good money potentially have a few great moments maybe even win a trophy there's nothing wrong with that Would you say that being a stepping stone club is a stepping stone in of itself?

46:10Yeah it could be There you are you see I guess so I don't really know what you mean What is it? As in if you want to improve if you become a stepping stone club it means you have improved because you're a good side you're going to attract younger players you sell them on So that itself as a stepping stone to becoming a successful side. What's one step under, I've used the word step there and I should have done, what's one kind of section under, what's wrong under the stepping stone club? Yeah, that's a stepping pebble. In boxing, you have it quite clearly defined. You've got like, there's probably nicer words for them, but like bums.

46:44Right. You've got journeymen. Yeah. You've got gatekeepers. Jobbers. You've got contenders and you've got champions. Right. You need to go and adopt something to do like that. Ultimately, what you want to become is a destination. But every team is technically a stepping stone team unless they are probably the five biggest teams in the world. Three teams in the world. I mean, because even if you're at, well, as we've seen with Alexander Azak, if you're at Newcastle owned by the Saudis, trophy winning club, people will still go on strike to leave you. Yes. Yeah. Nobody's safe. The only thing that could have made it worse is if Azak gave him an interview where he said, yeah, I've always seen Newcastle as a bit of a stepping stone.

47:20And now I'd like to go to Liverpool. Again, it sounds like, And it really, really isn't. Because again, if you're a small club and you're sort of mid-table Premier League club, that is signs of progress. But it's also signs of progress, as I say, that the manager's still there, that Semenya's still there, that Clive is still there, the others, they are building. And they could do something this year. Last year, they were good. They sort of slightly tailed off. Inevitable, of course, with the limitations they have. But they're doing marvellously well. Speaking of mid-table Premier League club selling players, Glasner confirmed before the game that Mark Gay won't be signing a new deal and will leave in January or the summer.

47:53and as he cast as he cast his eyes north towards the absolute binfire that is Liverpool by the time January comes around he may well reconsider as he dodged a bullet it's not going to get rotated out the side is he they need every single centre back that can get up there what is fascinating is how long like a few weeks is really in football because it looked like obviously he was very close to going to Liverpool Liverpool certainly felt they needed him they definitely need him now, particularly around that Canate situation. But if Liverpool, I mean, you don't want to catastrophise because who knows, but this is, as I said at the top of the show, this is Slott's first real challenge.

48:34First real adversity as Liverpool manager. If he doesn't pass this test and he can't find that blend of all the players they've brought in. Yeah, get Poster Coghler in. What state are they going to be like in January? Imagine Ange with all that attacking talent. Do you know he'd put Valjo van Dijk up there. Luke's fuming because he wanted to make a point there. I can imagine him leaving the voicemail on the director of football. Liverpool's saying that. Imagine me, mate. Make it happen. I've got no problem getting the tune out of it. I tell you what, though, Gay, I mean, Liverpool may end up trophy-less this season, whereas Palace, of course, they do have that shield.

49:10Yeah, they do. That's in the bag. That's in the bag. That's where they're getting their confidence from. Exactly. Do you not think you could, all you need to do if you are on a slot and his set-up at Liverpool is just get a little zero. Put it on that signing on Bonus for Gay And it'll be right up there He will be Like a rat up a drainpipe Well Peter But he could turn out to be a rat As we said Because there is interest From Real Madrid Yeah Right Which one would have to see The funny side of that The ratter has been Beratted As a top pro One would have to consider it One would have One would have to consider the move Real Madrid aren't a stepping stone No No That is the ultimate destination Rats love Sharitha Stepping stone to Saudi aren't they Well I mean I would believe it's there It is nowadays every single place on the planet is a stepping stone to Saudi at the moment I think you'll find do you know female rats can have babies in one womb with two different fathers hmm I'm pretty sure cats can do that as well don't they I'm pretty sure cats can do that I'm just trying to work it out yeah it's mad isn't it also I think I'm right in saying that sometimes it has been shown that bears can have babies while they're hibernating how's that happening then what's going on yeah they're not hibernating they've been having this on for years just tired They're having a big party down there A bunga bunga party They can give birth while they're in hibernation Right, okay That's alright, isn't it?

50:28I'm not saying it's not I'm not trying to stamp it out It's gone on long enough It's gone on long enough That's alright, isn't it? That's alright I don't think it was a moral argument Let's get it in the House of Commons I just thought I'll marry our cousins and stop the bears doing whatever they're doing I'm bringing it up, Pete Because I just don't feel comfortable with it I just don't think they should be doing it knock knock listen are you asleep or not when the bears disappear that's when we start worrying imagine waking up and you're like fuck what what happened I just don't I don't understand I do not understand right we've got to mention Burnley 2 leads nil yes Burnley 2 leads nil because of the car walk across presumably that's a vehicle to get him back in the squad to get his 100th cap we don't have to do this but I'm going to which was the better cross Bruna Fennett as a car walker I mean I would say we don't have to do it Why do we want to do it?

51:20I am going to do it. Yeah, go on. Messi or Ronaldo. The technique on Fernandes' one was better, but Walkers was... Walkers was Beckham-esque. Walkers was absolutely on the button. That cross was so accurate. It did genuinely take me right back to 1998. Did? Yeah. I mean, Pedronetto as well. That was a lovely... It was a good weekend for crosses. It was. It was, yeah. It was actually, yeah. Something we can all get behind. Yeah, it's like Easter. So it was a lovely first goal. I know what you did there. I'll just let a little look at Rory. He enjoyed it. It's just funny, isn't it? It's a good joke.

51:51It's a great joke. Yeah, thank you. What I wanted to get back to was that Karl Walker's stuck on 96 caps. It's tragic. Is that cross going to get him back amongst it? I don't think it is. Do you know what, though? You'd rather be stuck on 96 than 99, wouldn't you? Yes. So I think let's just call it there. Because he could maybe get back in another squad. It's unlikely. And then he just nudges, and I feel that would be a bit cruel. No, but I think it's just nature. It's human nature to look at other players when you're that close to it, look at other players and think to yourself probably, oh, it's better than him.

52:24And he's got 100. Really? And I haven't. I think he's in very good company. 96 caps, a hell of an achievement. There are quite a few players who've got over 100 now. Yeah. The obvious one for Kyle would be... Stop getting in the way of Burnley's second guy. No. He'd be comparing himself with Ashley Cole probably. Well! Yeah, he's got 107. I was looking it up. Yeah, Cole's one of the finest fullbacks England have ever produced. Defenders, I would even... The best fullback. I would say of all the players that have got 100 caps, I haven't seen Billy Wright play, but other than that, all of them are better than Carl Walker, so I think it's fair enough.

52:59Okay, right, there we go. So up yours, Carl. Carry on with your Burnley chat. Burnley's second goal from Loon Channel. It is an absolute ripper. It's a ripper. I fell in love with it. But that is just... I know you don't have to get touched defensively to a player that far out. oh but that strike the way it slapped the net don't worry about the defending yeah shut the fuck up shut up yeah seriously do I just think that do you know what here's a little angle for you should the keeper got a hand on it should the keeper got a hand on it don't let him fuck it away no no no there's a little angle for you yeah is it he must surely be the first player born in Chad yes to score in the Premier League yeah yeah I know he doesn't represent Chad but he was born then footballing family as well right really okay oh just you can't strike a ball better than that no painfully good it sang in the air didn't it give us that all day long it was a beauty just like phenomenal there'll be someone out there who's who's just who's just retired right thinking wondering what I'm going to do with myself now I'm retired just for the next few days just keep watching that magnificent like honestly such a good strike I can't get enough of it it was it wasn't even it wasn't one of those ones that was always rising.

54:16It wasn't a looper. It's just a rocket. Yeah. It was like the same level the whole way through. It's the very definition of a shot that stayed hit. Yeah. If the net wasn't in front of the crowd, it would have taken someone out. It would have gone through the stadium. It would have gone through the stadium. It would still be going. All the way. And also, Pete, something you can get on board with is that his first ever club for his youth team was FC Cronenberg. Oh, right. Nice drink. You've had your fair share of FC Cronenbergs. You don't really see Cronenbergs around anymore, do you? Do you not?

54:43I don't see it. You got tricks out of Kronenberg after your refereeing stilts? Maybe if you went to another country, though. It's a bit like when I went to Brazil and I was like, they're still drinking the skull. That's lovely, that. There's like tenants in South Korea. There's a lot of tenants kicking around. Of course there is. There's a market for everything. You've got landlords as well. I dual-screened this one while watching the Newcastle match. What, a three o 'clock kick-off? Yes, because I... Did you go... Were you abroad? I worked for Opta. I was abroad. You were abroad. I was abroad, yeah.

55:11And many thanks to our sponsors, Sky Sports. He flew abroad. Keep it coming in. That was abroad. But I have never been more convinced by a team who won 2-0 that they are going down. Oh, really? Oh, come on. Because Leeds had so many chances. Leeds, well, Leeds' main sort of game plan seemed to be whip it into DCL. Just that's all we've got. That's all we've got going for us. And if he starts scoring, then it's a good trick. Well, is he going too low? I didn't watch this game because I take the laws of this land seriously. Yeah. And I think he's only right. Nothing ever came of breaking the rules.

55:46No. But I did see here that Leeds had 19 shots to Burnley's four. The most crosses from a Leeds side for five years. Yet, ironically, the most notable cross of the day was by a Burnley player. Is that ironic? I'm not sure. It is ironic. Leeds needed to be winning that one. Well, yeah. I mean, Leeds, yeah. The stats were just so heavily stacked in their favour, other than the one that truly matters. The scoreline. So, yeah. So Leeds, of course, they'll be disappointed with that. I mean, they're on eight points now. Burnley are on seven. I'll tell you what. I mean, Sunderland, seventh of 14 points.

56:21Bloody hell fire. Heaping the worries on Wolves. But just staying with Burnley and Leeds for the moment. The Uniparty sides have started well. And I think Burnley have done okay. They had been on a run of four defeats in five league games, which was not great. But they get this victory. And I just think if you look at some of the performances, Even away to Spurs, was it on the first day of the season or very early on? Yeah, they got beat 3-0. Yeah, they were beaten. But they created a few chances. They shouldn't have been beaten 3-0. Away at Manchester United. They could have got something out of that.

56:51Do you know what I mean? I understand they ultimately lose the game, but I think they're doing all right. And I think you, Pete Donaldson, need to buck up. Need to show a little bit of respect. Is it because they're playing a back four? Yeah. They're getting back. Yeah. No, I think they're doing all right. Obviously, time will tell. I don't think you realistically expect to beat Man City away and then Villa away, do you anyway? No, exactly. They've got Wolves up next. That's a big game. I think it was a really disappointing result for Leeds, though, who have got themselves in a decent-ish position and have shown that they can beat some sides and score some goals.

57:24You create that many chances, you think, bloody hell. But the important thing is they are creating the chances. And if Dominic Cavallum can start chipping in a few more goals... Well, Arison should score. He's not going to. Yeah, he should have. Arison should have. I mean, it was a relatively good save from De Brafka, but Aarons has got to bury that. He had the freedom of the pitch. He should have stuck his laces through it and it's a goal and the whole game is different. But like you said about Isaac earlier it felt like they finished with an unconfident player and so Dubravka was able to save it and it was one of those ones it was a good save but he should have had no chance of saving it.

57:54Yes indeed, yeah. Just a little mention for Sunderland flying high Luke Moore what can they achieve this season? David Cartlidge fancied them to stay up and this was months before the season started. He convinced me of it. He convinced me of it as well. He was the one who opened my mind to the possibility of it. Yep. And I've chatted to someone else I know, who's a Stunland fan as well, who's saying, you know, we're trying to do what Brighton have done. We're basically trying to do what Brighton have done. We're going to do this in a certain way. It's going to be really coherent. Everyone's on the same page.

58:22We're in the signed players of a certain profile, and we're really going to give it a good go. We think we belong in the top flight. And they've been great so far. They've been really good. They have, yeah. And yeah, I can't credit them enough. They've only lost one in their last however many games, and that was the Man Utd game, which is a bit to be fair it's a bit of an aberration but I've been impressed with them I think they've been good yeah they have indeed and I'm sure that if any George Formby fans Sunderland fans as well every week they'll be saying play that Mukulele it's Mukulele not Mukulele you've worked with the joke I don't mind it I mean you're bringing in when you bring in a star like George Formby you do have to sort of think about you know where he what generation of entertainment he sort of plied his trade it's a long time ago it is and also he doesn't really say ukulele in the most famous song no play that ukulele he talks about he doesn't go play that ukulele there is it might not be George Formby yeah there's that one maybe it's another who sang football football I like football I don't know I don't think that was even George Formby might not have been might have been another one but there is definitely someone shouting I'm going to play it after the show can't do it on here we haven't got the rights looking back just trust me it's a great gang I guarantee that song is old enough.

59:34We do have the rights. Thanks for listening to the Football Ampl, part of the Egghouse Greater Network. We're back tomorrow for the Mailbag, where we'll be wondering where Ange Postacoglu's appointment ranks among the worst highs in Premier League history and whether English football deserves better nicknames. If you want that episode without any ads, remember to sign up to the Football Ampl patron for just five bucks a month. And YouTube viewers, we've got some big news coming soon for you. So stay tuned. Wow, that's exciting. I don't know what that is either. Wow. Great. Wow. Wow. Cook some food.

1:00:02See you later. Thanks Pete. See ya. Thanks Luke. See ya. Thanks George Formby.

1:00:15The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.