We’ve got our Barclays back

0:00You're my best thought by day or by night everybody. Welcome to the Football Ramble! A good point for Chelsea and Harry Wilson's one does it again. It's Monday 1st of December. I'm Marcus Speller. I'm Luke Moore. And I'm David Cartlidge.

0:24Hello everybody. It's the 1st of December. Advent has begun. Yeah. Are you looking forward to the main event, Luke? What is it? full of Man City tomorrow night yeah absolutely oh midweek football what a way to usher in the Christmas month how about that I'm looking forward to the darts starting as well oh I think we all are I think we all are won't be long now that's where Christmas really starts for me is Littler winning it all could be could do he could do I mean he's obviously ridiculous yeah to me it's the sport of Christmas darts okay I'd agree with that gives me an idea for a podcast Along with football, of course.

1:02Along with football. Football's a very close second place. I see. Yeah. All right. David, good to have you back. It's good to have David back, isn't it? It's nice to be back, yeah. We've got a lot to talk about, as we always do. Your beloved Sunderland will be coming up later. My beloved Fulham, of course. But we're going to start with some people's beloved Chelsea. One, Arsenal, one. What a game at the top of the table in Stamford Bridge. It was a feisty encounter. And I'll tell you what, we've got our game back. It was a great examination of Arsenal. It was good on Chelsea for giving Arsenal a thorough examination in the way that no one has done since Sunderland, probably.

1:36Well, you would say. I mean, Chelsea obviously played over half the match with 10 men, but Chelsea were... We saw what they did to Barcelona a handful of days prior to that. Can they keep that intensity? Can they have that team spirit and all the rest of it? We know they're capable of doing it, but they showed it in bucket loads against Arsenal. Yeah, I mean, Marco Correia kind of set the tone. and then I think after he just got involved you're like okay this is going to be a bit feisty and then everything preceding that was really really feisty, really scrappy in a very very good way. I've seen Arteta was speaking after the game and he goes not much football and I was like yes that was what was great about it yeah yeah that's what was great about it Like the odd ramble episode here and there, not much football It was a nice throwback to like old Premier League games, proper Barclays as they would say.

2:24I was expecting Keyes and Gray to come in over the top at some point I thank goodness they do. It felt like that. Yeah, yeah. But the biggest compliment you could pay Chelsea, I think, would be that because some people, perhaps even the man to my left here, has cast doubt on the authenticity of Chelsea's quality. Is that fair? Absolutely. But in this game, they did genuinely look like them and Arsenal were the two best teams in the division. Yes, I agree with you. And I think you have to say that. I think, you know, I've not seen another team. But with due respect to Somerset, it was quite a different game than the one we saw yesterday.

2:56I've not seen a team like that put Arsenal under so much pressure and to really look to capitalise on the players that Arsenal had missing and do all that with a really key player. Some would say the best move in the world missing for 60 minutes or whatever it was. It was a really good game. It was so entertaining. It was exactly the kind of thing that makes the Premier League such a marketable asset to the rest of the world because you don't see, I don't think you see games with that intensity and that pace for that long across the whole 90 minutes anywhere else. But the football purists will be saying, not much football.

3:29And that's the thing. So I know what you mean, but I think, no, but my point is though, is that when you say it's so marketable and everybody kind of enjoyed it, it's like, yeah. I don't agree with it. I think my interpretation of Arteta's comments, I didn't see them in detail. I just heard it there from David, is that what he probably means is, I don't really want my team playing like that or being dragged into the trenches like that every week because it means there's too many variables and we are going to get caught out sooner or later. It's like the whole boxer versus fighter analogy, right?

3:59A boxer wants to box. A fighter knows he can't outbox a boxer, so he wants to drag him down and make it a punch-up. And a lover wants to love. Well, that's your department. We were talking about SEM before we came on today. Talking about the great man and his natural successor down there on the table. My wife does, I hope it's not. But I think there's a lot of football in this game, just a different kind of football than perhaps Arteta wants. There's a lot of counter-attacking going on, there's a lot of pace and a lot of technical ability, I thought. Oh, the football launch. I mean, the quality was there.

4:31Yeah, but it was just intense and it was physical. It was really, really physical. And absolutely, if you're at home and you know that Arsenal have got Gabriel Saliba out, why wouldn't you make it physical? And I thought that Hincapio and Mosquera did well. They both picked up the other cars. They targeted Hincapio, didn't they? Yeah, they did. They really did. Every time anyone near him, clutch in the face. but I think more often than not he stood up to it I thought he was Pedro Neto that one where Neto goes through he was giving it plenty to him and I remember thinking still half an hour to go lad someone dragged him away and then Raya kind of gave him a pat on the back and he said get to the back post anybody have a problem with sending off?

5:05not particularly David? oh there we go no not massively but a little bit it was rash and everything like that I just think he did go for the ball but I guess if you make contact like that then you're out or a red especially in these new sanitised rules that we operate with in these days I miss the 90s as well but that was a red card yeah under the current laws of the game he needs to be walking I had people saying that Jokeres should have got a red as well for his diving to the goalkeeper no I think that was it was just ridiculous I was a red it's not red these people are being radicalised by all these new rules it's true actually I heard they're going to camps they're going to camps and they're watching old football and they're being radicalised yes they are they go to Stockley Park to do this They do, yeah.

5:47Clearly. It's the extremist training camp, Stockton Park. Yeah. That was Chelsea's sixth red card in all competitions this season. Seven if you include Enzo Maresca's. Oh, I think we should include it. Should he have got set off again? That colour of tracksuit. Yeah, maybe. Did he give his balls a little tickle as well? I didn't see that this time, did we? We weren't treated to that. Treated, yes. I used that language. Why do people keep saying, oh, if you include Maresca? I mean, the rules have been brought in that they now show red cards. to the manager. Back in the day, they used to say, right, off you go.

6:20No, because I think on the field there's much more. No, but it counts. Well, they're fine. He gets a ban. He gets a ban. Yeah, no, fine, but he's not on the pitch, so is he? So, you know, if you lose your manager in the dugout, that may or may not have an effect on the game. But it's still a disciplinary issue. Fine. Okay, so it depends. I'm saying that it's Chelsea's sixth red card and yet they're still in good stead in the league. They've only finished with 11 players in three of their last nine games. Yeah. It's wild. That is wild. I've started to get very, very close to basically respecting Chelsea.

6:50And I never thought I'd hear myself say that. I should love them in theory, really. They're getting stuck in. It's great. But on the Gokeres thing, because obviously we still want the goals and everything like that, but just because you brought the Gokeres thing up, the thing with that is a striker absolutely has to go for that. Their coach should do that from a very young age. You've got to follow in. We all know that. You didn't stud him in the face or anything. No, no. But I do also think that it looked nasty, right? But the problem is that in football and probably in any contact sport, you're never going to be able to totally eradicate accidents, physicality, and nor should you try to.

7:24Everyone knows the risks when they play. There is an effort to try and cut that out. There is, exactly. And that's what really annoys me. It's my biggest pet peeve with the game. But is that not because players are so much stronger, so much faster now, there's a safety concern in certain areas, which is why the Caicedo thing has to be a standard open and shut case red card. Yeah, I mean, look, I think there's definitely an element of that in terms of the physicality. But I also, I think the bigger thing is the fact that there are people in Stockley Park and the FA who want to control every single aspect of the game.

7:53Is it the pen pushes at City Hall, David? I think it is. Yeah, it is. It's them. They understand, David, when he goes out there with his badge and his gun every day, the danger he's in. No, I know. They don't know what proper street policing is like, do they? They don't know what it's like on the front lines. No, they don't. And I've heard, David, that their end goal is actually to make football basically like volleyball, just two teams either side of a net. I heard it's 15-minute city. Is that what it is? Yeah. I mean, you're joking, but seriously, I think there's substance to this. I am joking, yeah.

8:16Do you know that the Stockley Park officials are doing stuff to the water supply as well? Yeah. Yeah, they are. To turn all the players gay. Yeah, again, these things aren't new. Yeah. And I won't tell you what's going on in the Carabao Cup, but you can probably guess. But the prize money makes it worth it. It really does. It really does. You get a big sponsor like that. On the Caecino thing, it's not like he's tried to hurt him. I get that. I don't think he's tried to do that, but he's got to go. Right. But in such an intense game where the yellow cards are being dished and so on and so forth, a man who has struggled big time with injuries over the years came through it unscathed and was absolutely fantastic.

8:54We know his quality. Rhys James. Yeah. I mean, what a player. I've really enjoyed the season, him coming back into the side and now playing much more regularly. He was kind of brought back in. he would sort of start was it last season or whenever it was every other game he would kind of start and he was brought in because I remember thinking why is that guy not starting every week he's one of their best players but of course it was to kind of manage the workload now we're seeing him really really kind of get up to speed and in this game David the way he's deployed as well he's such a phenomenal player I mean before all these injuries and so on you go all the way back to the Champions League final that they won under Tuchel where he kept was it Raheem Sterling would it have been on that flank quiet or, you know, and you remember some of these performances and you thought, this guy's one of the best fullbacks in the world.

9:39Of course he is. But he's not just a fullback now. No, he's so much fun. He's always things to more people. Yeah, I mean, but look, he's played in midfield as well. Actually, I think the first time I ever saw him, strangely enough, was a game between Millwall and Wigan. Right. And he was playing centre mid then and he was roaming about that and he, just a wonderful footballer, very gifted and he always has been. Look, no one's ever, ever had any doubts over the ability of Rhys James. It's just always been injuries. it's really really unfortunate because you've kind of been robbed of a really really great talent I think but yeah it's great to see that he can hold up in a game of this intensity because he probably won't be in a more intense game than this one so yeah I mean yeah I could go on and on about James but there were lots of other good performers as well particularly on that Chelsea side but it was Trevor Chalabar who got the goal Luke Maher he was and he I mean bearing in mind he was loaned out to Palace obviously last season and they brought him back and came back in quite weird circumstances and it seemed like he didn't really want to come back I think he was quite disappointed to not be able to get that move that he was after but he's been important I mean he's contributed actually quite a lot this season for Chelsea he's been in and out the England squad a little bit as well that's a vital goal for them I said to you guys on the WhatsApp at the time if Chelsea close this out obviously after the sending off and then the scoring after they went down to 10 minutes if Chelsea close this out it'd be the performance of the season they didn't do that but they were pretty good all round and I thought that Chilaba was a part of that on the Rhys James thing when all those right backs started coming through, English right backs.

11:03It felt like James was the pick of them. Well, Carl Walker said he is my successor. Because he's got no obvious weakness in his game. No. And the kind of dual role you have to perform as a fullback now means you've got to be good at all of it. And he is good at all of it. And the only thing is, as Dave has mentioned, his body started to let him down. But seeing him step into midfield there, as he has been, and in such a big game as well when the best team in England are coming to town and flourishing like that is an amazing testament to his ability. It also gave Chelsea a lot more flexibility when they were down to 10 men because of how defensive-minded he can be.

11:39So they could then just drop Fernandes deeper to replace Caicedo, play with two wide forwards and one striker, and James and Fernandes could essentially just do that shielding which they needed. Didn't quite get over the line. I think, weirdly enough, I think they'll be disappointed not to have won the game. I know what you mean. Because the way they conceded, I thought was a bit disappointing. But I think all things considered, and obviously they're chasing Arsenal, so a victory would have been a real statement and see a little bit of ground back on Arsenal. And I know lots of Chelsea fans, understandably, have been sort of keen or quick to cool any title talk chat.

12:16But I mean, you've got to say that there is a chance. I think Arsenal, obviously in pole position, still not quite convinced by Man City in terms of winning a title, although they're in there as well. but yeah, this was so good from Chelsea and you look at that side even Sanchez, where there's been question marks over the goalkeeper before he's kind of stepped up a bit this season I would say Stepped right up into Guillaume Reyes' studs More the other way around, but okay But I think that again one thing that has been clear throughout parts of the season but definitely you saw it in the Barcelona game and Arsenal game this week was the togetherness of that squad because you don't get a performance you don't get performances like that if you don't have a great togetherness.

13:00They look like they enjoy playing together the way they celebrate together. These are all just key indicators, I think. And even when, as I mentioned, when Liam Dillap scored against Barcelona, they were absolutely delighted for him. So I think it's, I think, we've said recently, or I certainly have, I just wanted a little bit more out of this Chelsea side. You know, they've got a bit of quality there. They're just slightly hit and miss at times. Whereas I just think this last week, but you kind of go, look, that's what they're capable of. It's difficult to keep that intensity up all season, but that's what you've got to do if you're going to go the distance.

13:33But I mean, you have to say that at the moment, it does feel pretty good at Stamford Bridge. Yeah, of course. I think everything's really good there in terms of the way you look at it right now. I mean, they'll always want, I think it'll come around in January, they'll be linked to more players. They'll try and add continuously. Of course they will because they'll want to keep this up. But like you said, look, it's really commendable because they've got a big squad there. there's a lot of interchange in the line-up each week and what have you but generally they seem like a really good atmosphere and a good bond there and it's a real smattering of players as well like you say you've got Chalabar who's come through the academy and then you've got other players like Neto and everything who have come in as well so they've got a nice mix there Do you think because David you were kind of alluding on Friday I don't want to be unfair to you because you were more explicit off air so if you don't want to be more explicit you don't have to be but on Friday you were alluding to the fact they might get found out they might fall over at some point I think absolutely I think just purely I think they can get caught because they can sometimes sit in too deep.

14:27They can sometimes encourage too much pressure onto them. And I think that could potentially be an issue towards the end of the season. And I keep bringing this up all the time and I sound like a broken record, but there's the Club World Cup encounter as well. And there's going to be a fatigue. I'm interested to see them over the Christmas period. I'm interested to see them just at the start of the new year as well and where they are there and how they handle this. But you've still got Cole Palmer to come back. So he would give them a lift. I mean, you might say, well, where might he fit in? But I get what you're saying, David.

14:54I think for me I wonder though if these players as we've seen this week get themselves up for the really big games it's about now when they play what they've got Leeds next it's about those types of games and all those things together I mean what you're saying and what David's saying the next three games they go to Leeds on Wednesday night which is traditionally a very intense game Leeds-Chelsea then they go to Bournemouth at the weekend and they go to Atalanta in the Champions League they've got three away games in a row coming up and this Christmas period will be intense I mean it's throughout December I'm just looking now they're playing two, four, six, eight games in December.

15:27You know, so it's going to, at some point, maybe it's going to, going to perhaps catch up with them. But I was going to ask you, Marcus, do we, it's a weird one to assess from Arsenal's point of view, but do we kind of end up giving Arsenal a good amount of credit for thinking, blimey, Chelsea are at it here. They're really on it. And I know they're down to 10 and I know we've had the advantage from having an extra man, but maybe they come away from it thinking, we'll take a point all day long there. It's been an intense week for them. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, obviously Bayern as well. I think they go away thinking, okay, all right, fine.

16:00That one's out of the way now. I think that's how you look at it. I don't think you're going to be celebrating that point. But you automatically think if you're top of the league and you're clearly the best team in the division and your opposition gets a red card so early, you think we've got to make that count. Well, yeah, you do. And they got arsenalled with the set piece, didn't they? Yeah. That was really interesting how Chelsea set up with the set pieces. I mean, there was that moment, wasn't there, when I remember watching it as a lot of people were thinking there's hardly anybody in the box because Chelsea put three up front which made Arsenal kind of put players out they don't have Gabriel in there as we know and how potent he is from set pieces but Chelsea defended it well and it could that could act as a blueprint for other sides defending Arsenal with corners in particular the problem is if you tried to defend like that and you haven't got the players Chelsea I was going to say you have to have a group of units to be able to do that to combat them and everything so I think that's the key important we did it Sunderland against Arsenal we did it as well and we matched them up so Ballard's in there crashing about and we'll have you and you're kind of like okay we can go tour to tour with them here on that yeah no no that's fair I think Arsenal yeah I think they go okay it's a point it's not a lot I think they've lost my goodness I mean Mikel Marino's goal was you know it was one of the few times that Saka got the better of Kukurea because Kukurea was excellent against him but when Saka puts that ball in you know it's going in the net unless it's an absolute howler they nearly won it when was it Timbers who took it off Jokeres' head which would have been an absolute sickness for Arsenal fans wasn't it like I say I think they look at this and think okay fine we've got a point it's going to be one of our most difficult games this season we're still top of the league still got a handful of points in there and also they did it without Saliba and Gabriela I know Gabriel is going to be out for a little bit you've got to get used to it yeah exactly I think they would take some heart with how their both centre-halves played actually.

17:53They settled into it. I thought they got a bit stretched at the start. They looked very uncoordinated at the start and then they gradually settled in. Yeah, they did a bit. Yeah, because João Pedro had one which takes it first time. I think they were surprised by how, I mean there's a bit of a theme, maybe we'll come onto it throughout the show today, there's a bit of a theme of intensity of start catching other teams by surprise. It can do, yeah. Man City did it with Leeds, Newcastle certainly did it with Everton. Fulham did it with Spurs. Fulham did it with Spurs. they did they did though in a way yeah I mean it's easier perhaps more easily done on that more fertile ground you know to put up a few delicious ripe carrots but they did do it it was a theme of the weekend and I thought although Chelsea didn't score early they certainly did catch Arsenal by surprise they did which is one of those things which is obviously much easier said than done but they they matched up to Arsenal and said you're having a game today lads whether you like it or not we're not going to you're not going to get if you go away with three points here you're going to do it the hard way and I think it had an effect and I think that But Chelsea, it's a weird thing to think about.

18:50But they had more shots than Arsenal, despite the fact that they played the majority of the game with one fewer man. So I think it's one of those weird games where both teams come out of it with great credit, actually. I thought it was a great advert for the league. I thought it was brilliant. It was such a great, entertaining game to watch for a neutral. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I think as well, though, when Karsada does get the red card, I mean, you're not far off half-time. I think Arsenal are thinking to themselves, OK, now they're going to do that. Let's feel them out. let's see what's going it's like woof oh they've still got it they've still got this intensity so I think yeah it was excellent they're a reflection they're mad aren't they a bit mad definitely very intense volatile they can manage going down to 10 really well because of the way they set up as well with their blocks so they're happy to do it Everton did it really well against Manning Aded as well and they showed losing a man early on doesn't necessarily have to be the end of the world in the game you can still produce on the break and what have you an easier task but yes I totally take your point yeah so look a great game and I think Arsenal you're going to get the odd result here and there throughout the season like to be fair I know Stadium Alliance is a difficult place to go now but you know they get a point there rather than all three you kind of go well okay you will drop a couple of points here and there whenever we go we've lost this season is a Liverpool game where that was a narrow one as well and we beat Chelsea as well so Arsenal look out and say we got a point there there you got beat at home by them so look at things like that and Lord Edmund and Lord's end of the season and they're still five points clear at the top after 13 games I think Arsenal would have taken that so they roll on nicely now defending champions Liverpool stopped the rot with a 2-0 win at West Ham yesterday obviously Isaac scored his first goal we're going to be talking more about Liverpool I was so pissed off at West Ham honestly which is quite a familiar feeling for everyone but I know we're going to talk about it tomorrow on the mailbag we're going to save it so Liverpool fans don't think they only talk about us when we lose that is sort of true it is kind of true but they've also had their fun crisis crisis sells you weren't in media you're not doing we're talking about tomorrow it's not my decision David we're going to be talking about Liverpool on the mailbag tomorrow I mean you can talk about Lucas Pacitar now if you want what on earth was that about I thought he was going to chin the referee at one point I'd love to see the transcript because he's come out on social media hasn't he Pacitar yes saying that he's had such a difficult time of it mentally because of the ban he had where he wasn't found guilty of anything and you know he's had no support and all the rest of it which is an interesting angle and clearly if a player does feel like that they should be taken seriously but at the same time it's like you're playing every game you're part of this team you know what you've done there the referee it's very rare actually it has happened once or twice but it's quite rare for a referee to do that in that way so it must have been pretty severe what he was saying I'd like to think it might have been that he's doing that thing that people who speak English as a second language do where they pick up loads of swear words they don't know the impact of them and so he's just giving him both barrels yeah maybe I mean I actually thought so he there was a foul and then he started moaning at the ref and he got booked initially for dissent, didn't he?

21:48Yeah, that's right. And then the referee, I think, from what I gathered, explained to him, you know, one, two, three, he started pointing on the pitch. He was like, I think you've been gobbling off all game or you've had your fair share kind of thing. So he books him and obviously Pacquiao's very unhappy about that. Yeah. But he goes on and on. And I thought the referee was very patient with him, actually. And to the point of, Alisson, his Brazil teammate, of course, but ultimately opposition goalkeeper, comes out and tries to drag him away. Whereas Jared Bowen, the captain, has just stood there.

22:10I was thinking to myself Bowen get your man away from him because he's going to talk himself into a red card he's probably had enough of him well maybe maybe he's thinking do you know what we could do him off the pitch I can't be bothered I don't I don't know what was said right and we still don't know I've not seen a referee's report or anything so we don't know what was actually said but to put that to one side as a general point I think referees should do that more yeah I do I think I thought the referee was as I say very patient I think one of the first things I asked Howard Webb years ago when I interviewed him was why do whenever I play football on a Saturday or Sunday we can't say anything to refs and we get sent off if we do it seems like Premier League players do it all the time and he said oh well you know it's noisy in there you can't always hear it and the camera angle makes it look like we're closer than we are we don't always I thought that was bullshit I thought that they just let him get away with it because it would be a shit show otherwise but I think referees should be stronger on descent I've always I've kind of felt like that for a long time so maybe this will be the start of something although I doubt it yeah well ultimately it's a good win for Liverpool it's a start for Joe Gomez for crying out loud but we are going to be talking about Liverpool tomorrow on the mailbag so do wait, keep your powder dry for that one right, coming up after this, Harry Wilson got his magic wand out at Tottenham Hotspur

23:27but you know there's another side, I quite like my players fighting each other well back to the football ramble everybody thanks to friend of the ramble Andrew for sending us that clip you can become a friend of the Ramble too by heading over to patreon.com forward slash football ramble or click that join button on YouTube to get involved. Right then. Spurs one, Fulham two. Hey! Three points. Come on. Full force. Full force. Full force are in pretty good form. I mean, you know. They've turned it around, haven't they? Well, you said about, you know, how teams, you know, start quick. All you need is a good six minutes and sometimes it's enough.

23:59But you, I mean, look, they were absolutely right to start the way they did. Yeah, because that is... It should have been three. It should have been. Fertile hunting ground. As I said, that crowd's ready to go. They have been diabolical. They're ready to go on the walk to the ground before. They are ready. The slightest little indecision. But you can understand. Because it's fast becoming Spurs. Similar to Manchester United in that. Is it the unmanageable club? I mean, I really talked up Frank. And look, it's early days-ish still with Frank. I think it would be harsh to go too far in because it's an enormous job.

24:34but he's not done himself the best of favours in a couple of tactical setups, particularly at Arsenal. But I thought they need a manager, Premier League proven, pragmatic, all the rest of it. And Frank still could come good there. But if it carries, as we always say, if it carries on like this, it's just about like, what on earth do you do? I mean, the vibe around there. Fulham started, obviously, quickly. The first goal is fortuitous. Well, so is the second goal, really. Fulham don't score many goals. that's their problem you know it was a great win against Sunderland you know but it was just by the one goal and it took it to what 83 minutes Fulham were not a potent side after I think it was 25 minutes it was definitely within half an hour I messaged and I was saying this should be done with it should be 3-0 it should be all over because I thought Spurs are going to come back in the second half but can I just talk about how when you talk about how he sets them up yeah you know I take the point about the Arsenal game yeah And the Chelsea game, I've done to death.

25:35I won't do that again. But there's also another element to this where if you play with that lack of intensity and that kind of passivity against any team, I would even extend it to, if they get drawn against a moderately good League One team in the cup and they play with that passivity, they'll get hurt. Of course they will. They'll get badly hurt, right? So the second goal is the second goal. And obviously, you love Harry Wilson. it was a great finish by him great instinctive finish good on it you can go to town on that for all you like for me the first goal is really indicative because it's a it's a symptom of the way they are as a team at the moment and that is they've got no intensity at all in defending and if you look at how what Odogi does when the ball comes to Kenny Tete you know what it really reminded me of you know if you're walking in the park with your wife or whatever and there's some kids playing football and the ball comes over to you oh yeah I just I've passed that back to them it was like that level of energy it was like he didn't want to let go of his girlfriend's hand to go to the ball it was so bad and he's a good player he's a great player so how come he's playing like that it was so bad it was so bad unforgivably bad like you can't not close a ball down like that I think he's one of several players who don't like the way that they are playing they've got no enthusiasm for the way they're playing and that transmits yeah I mean I get that so do you I mean obviously it's up to the manager to galvanise the side and so on and so forth.

27:03And I don't want to be sort of naive here, but for crying out loud, you know, you put on the shirt, it's your job, you're representing that club. You have got to have a bit more about you. Okay, fine, you may not like... It looks like I don't believe in the way that you want to play. No, of course, but it's like going into a shit job that you hit. You haven't got much enthusiasm for it. You go in, you're just like, ugh, you're there. And it's genuinely that... He loves it. Yeah, exactly. He lives for it. Craig David, isn't he born to do it? That's it. You should have seen what I was like before I started doing this.

27:30I'd love to see you on the Just Eat advert. Doing a bit of rapping. That would have been nice. Maybe next time. But I know what you mean. But that's the thing though with Frank. We've only got really Brentford to go on in a very small sample size this season. He knew how to get his players playing up and out of his own. But the expectation is different. Exactly. So do you feel then this is a manager who's out of his depth? Is that what you're saying? Well, I think that's probably harsh. But I think I've heard, I know quite a lot of Spurs fans. People listen to the show regularly and they know I'll go to Spurs a fair amount.

28:04There are rumblings now among people who support Spurs whose football opinion I actually respect saying job looks a bit too big for him. I'm not sure he's going to be able to turn this around. And I don't think that's an assessment of his character or anything like that because I think it's eminently believable that he could go on to do something here or if not, he can go and have a good time at another job. But it's a classic example of the difference between managing Brentford and managing Spurs. Another example I'd probably use is Roy Hodgson. Well, that led to mine. Going from Fulham to Liverpool.

28:35Moist of Man United. Was it Fulham to Liverpool he went to? Yes, that's right. Yeah, and what he said subsequently is, yeah, I'll probably try to teach really good players with loads of experience them too much. And it just switched them off. I didn't want to know about it. I felt like if I had my time again, I'd do it totally differently. So I take that point, but I don't think that's the gap between Frank and what he's done than Spurs, especially after last season. But the thing is, the point I'm making in terms of the mentality is, and this is going to sound really disrespectful to Brentford, who's a club that I like, and I think they deserve an immense amount of credit for what they've done.

29:08But you can set up at home, if you're Brentford, to play reactively against anyone you like. No one's going to care. And if you lose, the fans will care. And maybe if you lose six in a row, people will start to notice. But it doesn't matter. Brentford could set up at home to Wolves this season under Frank and play totally reactively and no one would notice. You can't do that at Spurs. I get that. And you can't do that at home. And the problem is when you've got no ball carrier and no one who can take the impetus to the other team because Simmons looks like he's struggling to... Simmons was meant to be the man to do that.

29:41And he's not doing it. And that hasn't transpired. Kudos has done it a bit but he got marked out the game. He gets marked out the game against good teams and he obviously scored a good goal here against Fulham. But he can only do so much. Yeah, and he's pretty game. You've got other players like Bergvau who, you know, he got injured at an inconvenient time, got a bit of a concussion, came back, looked okay actually against Fulham. Archie Gray is not that type of player and he's been in and out the side. Paulini is limited with the ball at his feet. Benton Kors lost a yard and a half since he's had injuries.

30:07Isn't that player either? Yeah, isn't that player either? You know, Richarlison and Mouane, I mean, you know, Mouane cost 95 million euros at one point, but he can't really be blamed for the situation. Richarlison is Richarlison. Mickey Van Der Venne is fucking Michael Caine and the Muppet Christmas Carol at the back. You know, he's the only one taking it serious, right? He's the only one actually doing stuff. None of the others are actual human beings. You know, Mickey Van de Ven is defending like he's playing with players that only he can see.

30:37It's like fucking Hayley Jo Osborne in the sixth sense. Yeah. No, no, yeah, exactly, yeah. I mean, that's actually made on Chukwase to stop. I mean, to be... Yeah, he's playing like he's running around the jungle looking for fucking Christian Romero. Yeah. Screaming. Yeah. to get him back and obviously he wasn't able to play. I totally take the points there. However, a lot of these players, I mean Spurs will be, are the biggest club they've ever played for. So it's not like you have a team full of superstars going, oh, why are we playing like this? I mean, you mentioned Kudus there. We came from West Ham, you know, so.

31:12So the gap between, so I get the Hodgson to Liverpool, very obvious one, Moyes to Man Utd, another very obvious one. But Frank to Spurs, I'd just be surprised, are the players really going oh come on we're so much better than this particularly after what they did last season alright well that's fine yeah but they won a cup last season as well did they win a trophy or not did they beat a load of teams that they should be beating on the way to do it absolutely did they win the trophy though they won the trophy so players are kind of like oh you watched them play against your club what do you think you watched them on Saturday night what do you think tell me what you think about it then well I thought they were piss poor obviously but the point is about why the players are not playing for the manager why are they suddenly all I think they're also scared by the way they want to play a better football David I also think they're a bit scared I think when they play at home they're and when I say scared I don't mean they're physically scared I mean they're very tentative still a hangover from last season no maybe but to understand why you have to go there and you have to experience what it's like there and you know we can talk if you like about the Thomas Frank comments about Vicario I was going to say Vicario really copped from the fans out of all the players do you want to read the quote I didn't like the fact that our fans booed Vic straight after and a few times when he touched the ball that can't be true Tottenham everyone supports each other when they're on the pitch and does everything that we can perform after the game if the fans want to boo no problem but not during that's unacceptable so my assessment I actually agree with him well it's not gonna I mean it's not gonna help no it's not gonna help the fans pay their money you sarcastically cheer like England fans did when David Seaman caught the ball that time no no no I do think that's how's that going to help your goalkeeper?

32:51My theory about this, my hot take or whatever, and chime in guys if you don't agree, is that Spurs fans are frustrated despite the Europa League win. They're frustrated because they get fed a load of shit all the time by the ownership about this stadium will do this for us. This manager will do this for us. We'll spend the money to bring this player in who's going to do this for us. And they're an amazing PR machine, Spurs. And they're an amazing commercial machine. And so they're used to being essentially gaslit over and over again. Now, there's no Levy there anymore. So the first thing they would do is break glass and reach for the Levy protest.

33:30Pull the Levy. They can't do that anymore. And they probably don't necessarily feel like they can boo Thomas Frank at this point because he's too early. And maybe they will start to do that in the coming weeks. So Vicario is an easy target. Goalkeepers generally are easy targets. and when he does what he did for that second goal against Fulham it's just a pressure release it's just a pressure it's a pressure valve they're ready to go they want to boo someone it's not it's Arsenal towards the end of Wenger is what it is at the moment and the only thing that's going to sort it out is them going up the league table and winning games and essentially being a top four side and they look miles off it they look miles off it and look at the other evidence markers which is away from home they're actually pretty good because they're okay to be reactive and they're away from the pressure of their own fans.

34:18I think the fans would accept losing a bit more if they played a better brand of football. So if they were a bit more exciting, I reckon the fans would go, all right, lay off. I can see what they're trying. I can see what they're doing. But do you think they're sort of hamstrung a bit with this, you know, the Tottenham way or whatever? I know, but everybody's got the way. The West Ham have got the West Ham way. Tottenham have got the Tottenham way. You know what I mean? It's like Manning United have got the Manning United way. Oh, you should play in 4-4 too. Well, but I think... Everyone's got that.

34:41But with Spurs, it almost, It does feel like a big hindrance. I know, but what's the Spurs wear? I don't think they're booing about that. I don't think they're frustrated about that. I think they're frustrated for the reasons I've said. That's my assessment based on going there quite a lot. I don't think it's like, oh, we wish we could knock the ball around and run around and play this amazing free-flowing football. Because I think West Ham say that, as David says, and I don't know. But you feel ultimately the club is all fur coat and no knickers at this point. Basically. and Levy and look what does Sky Sports fucking director do every five minutes when this kind of game happens on Saturday night it would cut to Daniel Levy in the stand well you can't do that anymore the funny thing is is though like in the opposite dugout Marco Silva he is he is a manager and I don't I don't want to say this because I love the man and I want him to stay at Fulham for a long time he may well move he may well leave at the end of the season to Spurs to Spurs by this point well I thought he was going to go to Man United but Amarim seems to have Frank would be delighted to hear that.

35:43I've got a job to the end of the season. Cheers. The magic mark was coming in. But I think with Silva, you have a manager there who is, he's okay, fine, in the Premier League, he's not managed any of the huge clubs or the clubs who have got realistic ambitions for Champions League. But he is a manager who always punched above, well, not always, but he often punches above his weight, certainly has with Fulham. And the way he plays and the way he sets up a team, it's like he's got better players at his disposal. and I think he would be primed to take over. Congratulations Spurs, you've just made exactly the same mistake again.

36:16I was going to say, he's in the Frank situation, although he's performed above expectations. No, I think he's different to Frank. I think he's got way more, he's got way more, he's got way more experienced than Frank, you know, on his CV and as I say, the way Silva sets up, I think his frustrations are if I had better players, I'd be able to get more out of these. I don't think he sets up in the same way as Frank does. It's like, okay, I've only got these players so therefore we'll play like this. Silva is always like, right come on lads because you know if you were elite players this is what we could do and I think he's always looking up rather than down I don't think he's saying that to them obviously hopefully not hopefully not so you think if you were good this would be brilliant so you think just out of interest this is a hypothetical here just say a slot when at the end of the season no no because I think Spurs or Man United at the moment is more his level I think Liverpool would be too much okay then Amarim goes at the end of the season Michael Silva comes in what brand of football is he going to play if he goes to Man United he's not going to play what he's playing Fulham are you saying he's going to play more expansive no no I think he will play similar to Fulham but with better players he would get more and I would but I don't want to talk this into existence because as I say I'm very happy with him Fulham 200th game as a Fulham manager that was what a victory and they did what that had to do I mean which was in the first six minutes yeah just sniff it out put them under pressure work really hard get them scared which worked and they should have been freeing up after 15 minutes and they closed it out I should say by the way before we move on Spurs were markedly better towards the second half of the second half and it's not difficult to be better than they've been at home recently but there was quite an obvious improvement in how they played I thought for a large part of the second half so I mean slim pickings I guess but you've got to be fair you've got to be fair in the Burnley game still Spurs' only win at home yeah that's one win in the league and just to go into the frustration aspect if you're a Spurs season ticket holder you've only seen them win once in three months that's rough after all the shit you get told well it really is we're going to turn our attention more to the bottom of the league now because Man City beat Leeds United 3-2 obviously Man City towards the top but it's a it's a signal for Leeds and when other teams around them are picking up the odd point I mean they're still in the relegation zone I mean it's funny Fulham have won what three of their last four nine points and they're only six points above the relegation zone which shows you how kind of competitive it is because I mean three wins you know at this stage last season that would probably be it you know what I mean so it's much more competitive down there but Leeds gave a really good account of themselves however we do have to start I think the chat with Phil Foden scored in the first and 91st minute for Man City Luke he said he wanted to prove that he can still score goals I don't think too many doubted him but fair play to him yeah there you are bookended it like a killer in a movie open scene kill someone final scene I'm back kill someone and he got away with it Phil Foden bookends available in the Man City Club shop because we know what he did last season yeah we do yeah what was it it was okay yeah Jennifer Love Hewitt is that where you're going with it yeah great reference what year was that someone look it up what year was I know what you did last summer because it would be right in the middle of 90s I reckon it's 1995 tell me what year it is I reckon you give me 97 for that what is it 97 97 there we go there we go be here now listen new listeners it's as modern as it gets look I said that I mentioned earlier they went after him early and it does show the intensity of the league, doesn't it?

39:41Teams are right at it from the very start. There was no kind of feeling it out. But I do feel like, and a lot of people feel like this, City are vulnerable. Well, they are totally. It's kind of unthinkable in the pomp of Guardiola's man City. They go 2-0 up at home to a promoted side. And you think, oh, not sure about this. Next goal's massive. But the next goal was massive. And the way that Leeds scored it was a real lack of intensity from the defender. And he gets just nipped off him. He got out-bundled by Dominic Calvary. It was like he didn't know he was there. Yeah. And then he got out-muscled by a human feather.

40:15Yeah. The amazing thing was is when he goes in for that tackle, right, he fouls him, the penalty's given, and then Vardyol wins the ball. Yeah. And so at the end, okay, eventually he won the ball. That's the second goal. That's the second goal. Oh, sorry, that's the second goal. The first goal gets nipped off his toe. Yes, yes, yes, he does. yeah I'm sorry I'm jumping ahead there yeah so he probably had quite the afternoon well he did yeah yeah yeah sorry I'm jumping ahead I mean that yeah that was but for the penalty though that was just sensational yeah because I will get this ball I'll prove you all wrong far that we really don't need to there was quite literally too much time from the foul to you winning the ball yeah that's a that's a lot of leads now given up by City this season when they could be finishing off teams they just don't then they come out in the second half they kind of meander about and plod about in midfield just knocking it about similar to what Liverpool were doing at the very start of the season when they were winning and scoring late goals yeah and then Leeds are like oh we'll have a goal and then they get the goal and then that really encourages them like right we can actually get something from this so they really really got and then it's individual brilliance that gets City out of it but it's mad to think that though David that Man City are second in the league and we're talking about them being a bit vulnerable and so on because again we've been conditioned in the last handful of seasons that obviously last season the team who finished first Liverpool were not perfect but they were not far off it and then the previous seasons the top two whether it's Man City, Arsenal or Liverpool, Man City have been pretty much perfect so to see a team who have already lost four games this season who were nearly pegged back there by Leeds a second so it's a fascinating one really It's a big testament to why Arsenal win the league this season because no one else is reliable enough and I think I said this after the Newcastle game and I saw evidence of it again here with the Gavardio goal, particularly the first one, the Dominic Calvert-Lewin goal.

42:09I think they've got a massive lack of physicality, Man City. I think if you look at the middle of the pitch, the five players playing behind Haaland, Reinders, Gonzalez, Silva, Docku and Foden, good players, obviously really good players, great ball players, but you wonder whether that, I think you'd be very, very surprised if, say, Man City could have dealt with the physicality of what Chelsea and Arsenal brought the next day I don't think they could look I think that's what's probably holding them back their Rodri injury has just really done them over as a unit as a team it's astounding that one player has been lost but it feels like it's changed do you reckon it's as simple as that it can't be it just can't be as simple as that why can't it be because it's such a psychological thing I understand that a player makes a difference I think De Bruyne as well is another one because again you were in trouble I know he was there last season he does he's part of the so there's two things of way to defend you can keep possession and retain possession and how you use the ball and De Bruyne did that but there's also how you break it up and distribute after and Rodri did that Rodri is that good that I think he leaves that big of a hole in that team if you lose one of the best centre midfielders in the world for me the best centre midfielder in the world at the time then it's going to leave you very very vulnerable and teams can take advantage of that or that big that unit isn't there in the midfield anymore we can actually get So if Arsenal lost Declan Rice this season, would you be like, oh, they're going to have a wobble like this?

43:33I don't think they would. Oh, no, I think they could. I feel he's... Right, if they want me to find out, someone shank him. I feel he's the player who would impact most. So they could lose Saka, and I feel they could rebound from first. They lost Rice. They have lost Saka. Yeah, exactly. So I feel if they lost Rice, it would really, really rock them. I don't think it would rock them that much. And the reasons for that is because Arsenal are in the ascendancy. They are hungry for that title. This Man City side, they've won everything and they've won league titles I think inertia's set in and I think it's set in with the manager as well I thought he was going to go what when was it now you know when Tuchel got the England job you know and Guardiola was seriously tempted wasn't he there were talks reportedly between the FA and Guardiola you'd know mate there's no one going to know more better than you I don't know whether my sources are letting me down or not the cup against the wall touching yourself but I maybe I need to play them more with inflation I don't know but a couple of silvers doesn't seem to cut the mustard anymore but I think with Guardiola I just I see him I said it I bored everybody with this before but I just to me it's gone it's not there this indestructible the way they were playing under him you're in the kind of latter stages of the empire it's late stage capitalism and you're on the way and yes of course with that squad with that manager you're always going to be able to compete to an extent but I mean you know losing the cup final as well last year that doesn't happen no it doesn't happen a couple of years ago I think we're all delighted that Palace won for them but that to me all that is just as important if not more important the whether Rodri's there or not I grant you that if Rodri's there yeah that that would make some difference but I think just to say it's Rodri and just personnel I think there's more going on the same way with Liverpool we'll talk about them tomorrow I get it and I thought it was quite interesting this game he didn't he left his substitutions very late before he made his first change.

45:23Clearly he is... It was 75 minutes, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. Clearly he is burned by midweek, rotating the team heavily. Nobody's stepped up and he's kind of like, well, you know what? Forget it, the lot is. You ruined your chance to get into the team. He'd say some old stuff in that Sky Sports interview. I implore anyone to check it out. He always does. He's an old bloke, man. He says some strange stuff sometimes. But it was like... He does, I totally agree. But he was saying stuff like, oh, you know... One of the questions he got from a fan was like, how much preparation do you do for games now?

45:50and he was like he said something like when I was a young coach it was obsessive I'd watch tape after tape after tape now I don't watch much tape he just wings it he asks it yeah maybe it is well I mean it was Daniel Farker who was the one who was tinkering in that second half a lot of topics to get through well exactly and what did they say you know Phil Foden said he said they changed their system in the second half and we couldn't get going when there was a short break the manager got us together and we adapted to their formation now that has caused how did that short break all about Marcus please tell me so that was a topic of conversation according to Daniel Farker so yeah the fact is that Leeds changed the system and Man City were struggling with it is interesting but Farker talked about Donnarumma going down he said you can do a fake injury in order to do additional team talks but if it's within the rules it's smart but is it the sense of fair play if we don't educate our players in football what do we do in terms of fair play sportsmanship and you just try to bend the rules to your advantage.

46:50It's nothing I personally like. Now, the rules say that if a goalkeeper goes down, that a goalkeeper obviously can't go off the pitch to get treatment and the game carries on. Danny Murphy had an odd suggestion on match of the day where he said, I've got an easy fix for this. It's like, what's that? Well, you just take an outfield player off and then it's even and then you carry on. But the goalkeeper's got to get the treatment. I mean, if you want to say that an outfield player goes in goal, it would be an outrageous suggestion, but it's a more workable suggestion. But anyway, By the way, it's worth pointing out that there's so many teams doing this now.

47:20Well, there is. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. And one of the, well, there's nothing wrong with it. Well, he says it's within, he's, you know, he's saying it's just not cricket. It's basically his argument. But I mean, we knew that, you know, John Terry. From a German. Come on. What's next? A Frenchman? Come on. Australian? Yeah. Australian say it's not fair. Maybe. Andrew's very purist about it, I thought. I'd like to sit next to him in the ashes and see if he was purist about that. Yeah, right. Over the recent years here in Britain, we've got nothing. I know that. The one thing we have got is an understanding of what fair play is.

47:53Damn right. Look at the fair play trophies that we've got from World Cups. But the other thing was that we know that these rules were there to be used. Players will always, teams will always take place. Because it was what John Terry said about Jose Mourinho. Exactly. He said if two players go down, you know, and John Terry admitted that, didn't he? He said, you know, who was it? Ivanovic or one of his defenders went down and Mourinho was like wanting to talk to the players. So Terry went, well, I better go down as well then and you can't stop the game if there's two if there's a new rule brought in I'm completely for this if there's new rules when you get the IFAB list at the start of the season you have the team meeting these are the new rules great day innit when that comes out honestly people at ESPN are fucking loving it I was going to say the night before I cannot sleep I'm not excited yeah anyway what are you going to do with the six second rule this year so your team meeting you'd highlight the new rules that are coming in they must be doing that surely they will but I'd look at every single one and say how can we bend this rule how can we do something how can we do this it's the sensible smart thing to do so it's a fucking fair play shut up man it's football you're trying to win a game man yeah one thing his team did they stop Harlan scoring his 100th Prem goal Guardiola said he'll do it in the next game which is against Fulham oh will they yeah they probably will damn it all they've used up that one alright coming up after this Andy Carroll still got it

49:25Now, David, you've been very patient. Sunderland 3, Bournemouth 2. Another fine victory for the Black Cats. Came from 2-0 down, of course. Shame that Tyler Adams' goal is one of the great forgotten goals. Beauty it was. But Sunderland cannot be denied. They've got 12 points from losing positions in the Premier League this season. It shows you the character. They never know they're beaten. No, they don't. No, they can't and won't be denied. It was a fantastic effort, second half. It really, really was. It was a new system as well. Moved out of the five at the back. Decided to go four at the back as well.

49:58Enzo Lafayette sent midfield, who was marvellous. Man of the match. I love that how a manager could just switch it up. Whereas at Man United, you know, a year into Amarim is right. I don't know, but you've got to understand. Some of them are not used to playing three at the back. Yeah, exactly. Come on. Yeah, carry on. Yeah, yeah. He's looking through the IFAB list. Can we let's change formation? Can we change format? There's nothing on there. But a back forward would mean I'd need 12 men on the pitch. No, no, no, you couldn't. So, Jim, it doesn't say we can change the formation, but it doesn't say we can't.

50:27Yeah. So, can you tell me what to do? Yeah. It's outrageous. Oh, dear. Anyway. Yeah. So, Sunderland, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sort of a 4-2-3-1, they were kind of playing. Yeah, yeah. 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3. They matched up, but we just matched them up, didn't they? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then Lafitte being sent to the field was the main thing. there's been kind of calls for that for quite a while but he's been situated out and wide but Rimey and Wundel came back so he comes in out wide and then Lafique can go central and he just ran things brilliantly and Siddiqui as well was just who we're going to lose he's probably the person that's the player that Sunderland are going to lose to AFCON that they'll miss the most they're going to miss seven players I think more than any other team in the Premier League seven I'd say four of them are probably regular starters but I mean that's why the manager was like seriously lads we really need to rack up the points before AFCON we've got to go Yeah, but then it's Liverpool and City next before the derby.

51:15Okay, we've got four points from that at least, I'd say. Who's the derby against? Middlesbrough, the champions. Yeah, Middlesbrough, yeah, yeah. Liverpool and Man City next, don't worry about that. We've got at least four points. Yeah, and Liverpool will get a win just before the playoffs as well. You've got to play West Ham, the most unreliable club in the history of football. It's where it all began, against West Ham. But it's amazing how kind of spirited they are. Because Bournemouth, I know they've been in bad form, but Bournemouth are a good team. And to go 2-0 up in the way they did, fairly early on.

51:49I mean, you're talking about teams, again, the theme of the weekend, teams kind of going at it early and trying to catch teams on their heels. Bournemouth kind of did that. But Sunderland were super calm, super collected, and were able to win. And it felt kind of, when they got to 2-1, it felt kind of inevitable. Oh yeah, definitely. There's been a few times this season where they've got one goal back, and then you can clearly see the players and then the fans are kind of like, come on, get another one. And then you go at level and they're like, you can win this one, you can win this one. And that's what's been really good.

52:20It's so, so positive and encouraging. And it's a case of whoever comes to the Stadium of Light, it's kind of like, we will give them a game no matter who it is. It's so good. It's a great attitude to have. Indeed. And it's so great for the fans to know that and buy into that. Because as I say, you love being in the Premier League, love playing the big sides and all that, the recognisable players, but you don't want to be a passenger. you don't want to be oh well that was a little kind of weird holiday where actually we got absolutely spanked every week and I think when the fans see Brobby warming up as well so Brobby's been the super sub this season when he's warming up and he's coming on it's kind of like oh we can get something here so you just never kind of downbeat about anything but what is it then you know we've mentioned a number of times that you fancied Sunderland to stay in the league and we you know it was your confidence really was quite notable it was big it was no but it was quite notable and they're justifying that of course and you said I think last time when we spoke about Sunderland.

53:12It was just, just get up and then you'll be okay. What is it? Is it the whole, the way the club is run, the recruitment, the manager, what is it? I mean, all of those things? It's genuinely all of it. It's Sunderland, everything has never, ever been aligned at once like it is right now. Are they trying to be a bit like Brighton? That's where it is. They want to be the Brighton-Brenford model. They want to bring players in from Europe and then potentially flip them within two years. That's just the remit of things. We saw it with, I know he didn't come in from Europe, he came from England, but we saw it with Joe Bellingham as well.

53:41It was kind of like, they knew he wasn't going to be there five or six years at the club. They knew it was like a two-year thing. You kick on, you progress, we'll flip you, we'll sell you and we'll bring somebody else in. And they're going to try and do that. Look, Siddiqui's been unbelievable. There's several players who've been really good who will end up flipping at some point and then they'll move on. What's interesting is, the player that's not going to go to AFCON is Isidore but he's playing ahead of Brobby and Brobby is a more fancied, more classy player than Isidore would you say? But why is he not playing?

54:12Why is he not starting instead? Isidore is a better finisher. I think natural finisher. Robidore is bringing the hold of work the physicality that you need in the Premier League. So he's a finisher rather than a sub in that last half an hour. Yeah to use those Arteta terms as starters and finishers. So yeah I was going to say he seems like that right now. If I was the manager I'd say no no no you're the headline act. That's how I'd say it. if I was Brian Brodby I'd be saying thank you very much I came through the Ajax Academy this kid came through at Rennes I'll have to start in Perth thank you very much and I would tell I'm the manager on the other side and he's a Dutchman so he definitely would say that as well yeah that's true yeah definitely a fair play to them well look another fabulous victory for Sunderland they march on towards the goal which is of course Champions League football next season and you've got to spare a quick thought for the Bournemouth fans having to go all the way home after that 2-0 up losing 3-2 yeah all the way back down to Bournemouth Well, is there an argument that if you do go 2-0 up, then just leave?

55:06Yeah. Yeah. You've been traffic. Yeah, you've been... Long drive ahead of you. You have a lovely time. Turn the radio off. Yeah. Enjoy the rest of your Saturday. Yeah. Luke, before we go, a couple of things to mention. Firstly, you fancied Everton to beat Newcastle. They got absolutely hammered. Yeah. How do you respond to that? I've put my thoughts in the running order. Yeah. I'll read it out for people to give them a little glimpse behind the curtain. The only reason this is in the fucking running order, the first bullet point talking point is Luke predicted that Everton win on Friday and I said I'll say to the people what I said then no other host gets this treatment no other host gets it oh I think I think you know I can a little bit really?

55:44yeah but it's minor you know predictions with a smile will always carry a little bit more the reason Everton yeah true the reason Everton was so disappointing and I never smile is because the physical side of it is something they should be really good at and they they were bullied yeah bullied from the first minute and Moyes will be really, really disappointed. He will be, yeah. I mean, Nick Voltemada's goal as well. What I loved is in that type of performance, you know, as you say, being bullied and so on, to bring out such a touch of class like that. I love the fact he's a cult hero and I love the fact as well that you look at him and you think he could be, I mean, I forget how old he is, I know he's a young man, but he could be like 41 as well.

56:26He's very much like an early 80s type of player. You know when you see those players back in the late 70s and 80s and you're like, how is that, that man can't be below 45 years old. Somebody's put him up against. Bruce Forsyth. No, not Bruce. Michael Parkinson. No, Rudy Voller. Rudy Voller. Somebody's put him against Rudy Voller and just shown that. But he's a very, very well-dressed man. Yes, yeah. Might have the crown for the best-dressed man in the Premier League. There's a conversation to have at some point. Get rid of that Liverpool question in the mailbag tomorrow. When you say cult hero, that's doing him a disservice because I think he's probably going to be too good for that and I think there's a chance he could get 20 Premier League goals this season but the cult hero status is not just it's not like a piss-taking one it's very much he's quality but we also like his vibe as well to be a cult hero I think you either have to stick around not that long or be ultimately a bit shit no I don't think so that's a conversation for another time Kiernan Dewsbury Hall with one of it'll be a forgotten goal but that was Dennis Bergkamp stuff is this the best season for forgotten goals already but I'm telling you that Dewsbury Hall goal it was Bergkamp-esque it was great it was quite nice it must be said come on no it was it was very very nice it was absolutely unbelievably good goal it was he's got Clarkson there he's got Paul Clarkson unbelievable that's how much he's done is that pretty the BBC that's Nick Hewer come on he's always in there get a hold of yourself man I wanted to give a mention for Malik Tiao as well who must be one of the best centre-backs in the Premier League at the moment he's been great absolutely outstanding to be fair to mention this game and not mention it would have been quite criminal it would yeah but that's all he's getting because I want to move on to former Newcastle United man Andy Carroll speaking of cult heroes there you go Andy Carroll scored a hat-trick for sixth tier Dagenham and Redbridge on the weekend he's always got six goals for them this season so nice to hear Andy still doing the business oh yeah I've got a I've got an emotional kind of support plea to make to players who play particularly for AFC Tottenham who he scored against and for other players in the sixth tier.

58:28Go on. You should be able to ply your trade in the sixth tier safe in the knowledge that you're not coming up against an ex-international striker who's 36 years old. 36. He's not even that old. I know. He's like yoga and players in the Premier League still. But I love the fact, obviously he's off-field, you know. Antics. Say antics. Antics, but also, you know, trials and tribulations and so on have been well done. I mean, he got fined actually the other day just over a grand for filming the Epping protests, you know. Yeah. Sorry. wasn't the famous when he went and lived with Kevin Norlin that was the famous story so he's had his troubles off field fair enough he's currently trying to sell an 8 million pound house that must be quite know what AFC Totten's doing that I'm telling you that now I'm just saying spare a thought for Andy Carroll and if you have got the money then put your hand in your pocket and buy sales make an offer make an offer for it get it going yeah weird listen there's a chain a lot of houses need to be shifted give Andy Carroll a break.

59:27Yeah, I wouldn't normally condone gazumping, but why not? Have a bidding war. 7.95 million. There you go. Start off there. See how we go. Should we have a whip around, yeah? Yeah, we have a whip around. David, you're on ESPN money. You've moved down there, no problem. No, I've got no money. Maybe not that type of money. Well, thank you very much for listening to the Football Ramble part of the ACAST Creator Network. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you, Luke Moore. Thank you. Thank you, David Cartlidge. Thank you, my man. Thank you, Andy Carroll. and we'll see you tomorrow for the Mailbag.

1:00:05The Football Ramble is a Stack Production and part of the Acast Creator Network.